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Friday, 11 July 2008 12:19

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Yes, let us force Muslims to pray five times a day. Let us also make sure that non-Muslim houses of worship are denied water and electricity. That is the Islamic thing to do. That would make Muslims better Muslims.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin 

The Temerloh High Court today ordered that the hearing over the non-supply of water and electricity to a Jahut church in Kampung Pasu to proceed as planned on August 15.

It threw out the respondents' – the Temerloh District & Land Office and the Pahang State Government – preliminary objection to the hearing on the basis of the application by the Orang Aslis being submitted late.

However, the Jahut Christians will still have to worship by candlelight as Judge Datuk Abdul Halim Aman refused to order the respondents to establish water and electricity supply pending a judgment on the case.

"Who knows how long this case will drag on? The defendants have not even filed their affidavit yet," Annou Xavier, one of the counsels for the Jahuts told The Malaysian Insider.

The group of Jahut Christians from Kampung Pasu, led by village elder, Wet bin Ket and his son, Yaman bin Wet, are seeking a judicial review over the local district and land office's refusal to supply their village church with water and electricity for the past 2 years.

The villagers, who embraced Christianity in 2000, built the church in Wet's backyard with his permission in 2003. But it was demolished by the local authorities who ruled that they were erecting an illegal structure as they had not obtained proper approval from the authorities.

In 2006, they won RM35,000 as compensation to rebuild their church, which they also use as a tuition centre for their school-going children, and as a nursery for the younger ones.

Xavier said that the reasons given by the local authorities are that the building was erected on land not gazetted and that the building was erected as a place of worship without the approval of the local district and land office.

The Orang Asli are however contesting that decision based on their native rights. -- THE MALAYSIAN INSIDER

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Kelantan plan to make govt staff pray 5 times a day

A Malaysian state governed by a conservative Islamic party plans to compel Muslim government workers to pray five times a day as required by their religion, an official said yesterday.

Chief Minister of north-eastern Kelantan state, Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat, said Muslims who shirk their prayer obligations 'are not fearful of Allah and are susceptible to committing bribery and other sins'.

Kelantan is planning to introduce a law forcing Muslim government workers to pray five times a day, said the minister's aide Anual Bakri Haron. He said details on how to enforce the plan would be finalised in time.

Kelantan has been ruled since 1990 by the conservative Parti Islam SeMalaysia, which has implemented strict morality rules, such as banning gambling, nightclubs and rock concerts. -- ASSOCIATED PRESS

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PAS Youth today backed the Kelantan government's proposal on the prayer requirement in the appointment and promotion of civil servants in the state.

Its chief, Salahuddin Ayub, in a statement issued today, said the move, besides instilling fear of God among civil servants, would also deter them from engaging in corrupt practices, like bribery, breach of trust and misappropriation.

He said despite various measures by the government, including law enforcement, white-collar crime, like bribery, misappropriation and power abuse continued to be on the rise.

"It is not wrong for us to have laws or the police, the Anti-Corruption Agency, the Public Complaints Bureau, etc, but if we can educate the people to observe their religious teachings, the problem not only can be reduced, but eliminated.

"If the government is to neglect the responsibility, the people are free to do whatever they like," he added.

On Monday, Kelantan Menteri Besar Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat said that only Muslims who performed the obligatory five daily and Friday prayers would be considered to be future leaders, heads of departments and civil servants in the state. -- BERNAMA

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Comparing MT today with the MT of yester-years, I am happy to see that RPK has softened his Islamophobic stance. No doubt the political pressure is on him, but he clearly can no longer get away with defiling Islam with his ill-conceived rants and mere conjecture.

Changes are coming to Malaysia, but they are not the kind that RPK can be proud of. He may deem to have had an affect in popular opinion and direction of future government, but the results will not be what he has been working towards. Governments have an apparent way of resisting pressure. Reverse psychology is clearly a winner here.

Good luck,

Dawud ( This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it )

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In the first place, I do not defile Islam. I defile Muslims. And in case many of you do not understand the difference, let me assure you that there is a difference. But seriously, do you even need me to do the dirty job of defiling Muslims? I mean, Muslims are handling that job very well by themselves they do not need my help one bit. What further damage can I do to Muslims that they already do not do to themselves?

I am all for forcing government servants, political leaders, policemen, etc., to pray five times a day if that makes them better people. How it is going to be enforced is another matter. I remember, when we were still in school back in the 1960s, we had to line up and march to the mosque to pray. But did we pray? Of course not! We certainly did all the movements required in the prayers but we were not praying. We were play-acting like in a pantomime.

The school prefects were not concerned whether we actually prayed. They just wanted to make sure that we all lined up, marched to the mosque two-by-two, and then stood up, bowed, prostrated, etc., in the mosque in synch with the rest of the congregation. In short, we were obligated to perform the physical movements attached to the prayers although what we were really doing was just exercising akin to yoga and with a total absence in heart and mind.

Would forcing government employees of the Islamic faith to pray really make them better people? Would, for instance, they agree that since the prayers are personal between you and God, then for every minute you take off from work to perform your prayers, it will involve a salary cut? What about switching off the lights and air-conditioning when you pray? The rakyat are paying for all these facilities from the tax they pay so you are misusing the rakyat’s money when you pray instead of work -- so the proper thing to do would be to reimburse the cost of these facilities or not use these facilities when you are praying.

On that same note, government employees should also stop using the office phone to make personal calls, or government vehicles to send their children to school or wife to market, and much more. Any use of government assets, facilities or time for your personal purposes, praying included, is an act of corruption. Note that the one-time Director of the Commercial Crime Division, Ramli Yusof, is currently on trial on a charge of corruption for using a government asset for his personal purposes. So it is considered a crime and everyone of the more than one million government officers are committing corruption, the majority of them Muslims.

One sad fact I have noticed is that many, if not most, of the Muslims who commit corrupt acts, pray. They not only pray five times a day but they never miss their Friday congregation prayers as well. And it is not only on Friday that they go to the mosque. They go as often as they can and almost every night after breaking their fast during the month of Ramadhan.

What is even more interesting to note is that their wives are ‘decently’ dressed with headscarf (tudung) and all. They also go to Mekah to perform their umrah and/or haj as often as they can, time and money permitting. But they are corrupted as hell. And they don’t even mind taking bribes from pork sellers, pubs, gambling dens, brothels and loan sharks.

Yes, these Muslims pray. These Muslims pray five times a day. These Muslims even go the mosque to pray. And, as often as they can, these Muslims go all the way to Mekah to pray in front of the Ka’abah.

But these Muslims pray wearing clothes bought by money earned through corruption. These Muslims drive to the mosque in government cars paid for by the taxpayers or personal cars bought from bribes. These Muslims fly to Mekah every year or twice a year to pray in ‘God’s House’, not paid for by their hard-earned salary, but paid for from bribes from pork sellers, pubs, gambling dens, brothels and loan sharks.

Yes, let us force Muslims to pray five times a day. Let us also make sure that non-Muslim houses of worship are denied water and electricity. That is the Islamic thing to do. That would make Muslims better Muslims. And the fact that most of the corrupt Muslims are Muslims who pray five times a day should not discourage us from forcing Muslims to pray five times a day.

And I do not defile Islam. I do not even need to defile Muslims. They do not need my help when they are doing a very good job themselves.

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written by SUV, July 11, 2008 12:30:53
Pilih Pakatan Rakyat ganti kerajaan Umno/BN
Oleh Tuan Guru Dato' Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat

Permintaan Umno supaya "Yang di-Pertuan Agong campurtangan bagi menangani penghakisan hak-hak keistimewaan bumiputera" [Utusan Malaysia, 8 Julai 2008] ibarat mengesahkan satu perkara sahaja iaitu Umno yang telah mengangkat kedua-dua belah tangan.

Dia sendiri telah secara muktamad mengesahkan kegagalan parti itu sebagai pembela orang Melayu. Sudah selama 50 tahun dia membela(?).

Nasib orang Melayu menjunam dalam hampir semua pentas; agama, bangsa, tanah dan air.

Bertolak dari kegagalan agama yang boleh disukat melalui pemisahan pemerintahan dengan Islam, menukar Islam sejati dengan Islam Hadhari, gejala ratusan ribu umat Islam yang murtad, sejuta penagih dadah, bangsa Melayu yang kekacauan identiti dan jati diri dari segi bahasa, adat, budaya dan budi; tanah rezab Melayu yang semakin susut serta terjual dan tergadainya tanah, air dan pasir dalam bentuk pukal akibat rundingan dan perjanjian yang tidak cermat dengan negara jiran.

Jika orang Umno asyik minta Yang Di-Pertuan Agong campur tangan untuk memperbetulkan setiap kali kesalahan yang dibuat mereka, sedarkah Umno bahawa Yang di-Pertuan Agong inipun adalah Raja bagi seluruh warganegara.

Apa kata jika mereka pun mengangkat memorandum balas membantah dasar-dasar diskriminasi Umno terhadap segala ketidakadilan Umno.

Ini semua bertolak dari perletakan paksi perjuangan yang salah. Jika Umno dari awal tidak meletakkan paksi bangsa dalam perjuangannya, bahkan meletakkan Islam sebagai asas, saya percaya keadaan tidak jadi setenat ini.

Apabila Umno membesar-besarkan bangsa, mengibar keris telanjang, mengacah dan mengucup keris berterusan, orang bukan Melayupun boleh gerun.

Apabila naluri manusia terasa terancam, mereka pada logiknya juga akan menggunakan sentimen bangsa sebagai perisai pertahanan yang sama. Mereka akan mengumpul dan menggunakan persamaan dan perkongsian sentimen sebagai benteng pertahanan
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written by SUV, July 11, 2008 12:31:36
Ini segala-galanya berpunca dari Umno. Sebab itu, polemik mengenai perpaduan nasional tidak pernah selesai.

Jika Islam yakin bahawa kaedah pengagungan bangsa adalah formula yang tepat, sudah lama Nabi SAW menggunakan keunggulan suku bangsa Quraisy sebagai tunjang perpaduan kaum. Semua orang diwajibkan menerima Quraisy segagai bangsa "superior".

Soalnya, kenapa Nabi Junjungan kita tidak memilih berbuat begitu?

Bahkan sebaliknya, Baginda menempelak asobiyah bangsa dengan sepotong sabda bermaksud, "tiada kelebihan bangsa Arab atas bangsa ?Ajam kecuali dengan taqwa."

Kini sesudah 50 tahun, tanpa diatur dan ditunjuk-tunjuk oleh pemimpin Umno sekalipun, orang Melayu sudah lama tahu punca silapnya orang Melayu.

Mereka sangat tahu bahawa kegagalan ini disebabkan pengkhianatan pemimpin Umno dahulu dan sekarang yang tergamak memperkuda dan memperhambakan Melayu sesama Melayu.

Berselindung di sebalik istilah bumiputera, mereka (Umno) ratah daging dan darah sesama Melayu. Jika adapun usaha, mereka cuma berminat mengada-adakan projek yang boleh memperkayakan segelintir pemimpin Umno dan kroni.

Lihat sahaja isu di sekitar penjualan pasir satu waktu dulu, penguasaan saham di ECM Libra, Scomi, pembelian bas-bas RapidKL, isu kapal selam, siapa berada dibelakang Bernas dan terkini pula berbangkit soal tuduhan penglibatan pemimpin Umno dalam kontrak pembinaan Terminal Penerbangan Tambang Murah di Sepang atau disebut LCCT.

Saya cuma sedut beberapa contoh untuk sekadar menggambarkan perihal curiganya rakyat terhadap kerja Umno yang kononnya membela orang Melayu.

Bila terdesak rapat ke dinding, mulalah panggil Yang di-Pertuan Agong dan Raja-Raja Melayu. Satu masa nanti, jangan terkejut jika Kebawah Duli Raja-Raja Melayu kitapun boleh tiba ke tahap meragui keupayaan Pemimpin Negara yang ada sekarang. Di peringkat itu, saya tidak tahulah apa yang akan terjadi.

Sekarang, benih yang salah, yang ditanam 50 tahun lalu sudah berbuah. Ia beracun dan cukup pahit bila dimakan.

Ia telah menimbulkan loya dan sedang menyebabkan muntah-muntah di kalangan Melayu dan bukan Melayu. Hakikat jatuhnya hampir separuh kerajaan-kerajaan negeri dari tangan Umno/BN dalam pilihan raya 8 Mac lalu adalah testimoni.

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written by SUV, July 11, 2008 12:32:28
Ini berbeza dengan PAS. Kita tidak bermuka-muka. Kita mahukan Islam sejak dari tahun 1951 hingga kini dan Insya Allah, hingga sampai ke hari kiamat.

Jika Umno bermula dari Islam sejak awal penubuhannya, tentu keadaan tidak menjadi begini.

Dengan menolak Islam dan mengambil faham kebangsaan, Umno secara terbuka sanggup mendepani mana-mana gerakan siasah yang mahukan Islam.

Bermacam-macam tindakan zalim telah dibuat walaupun di luar lingkungan keizinan demokrasi.

Dalam banyak hal, dia (umno) memperalatkan kuasa majoriti yang diperuntukkan dalam amalan demokrasi untuk menyekat dan menyusahkan pergerakan dan kemajuan agamanya sendiri.

Saya masih ingat lagi bagaimana ramai ulama?, ustaz dan aktivis Islam ditangkap dan disiksa.

Ada Adun PAS yang mati dikapak di tengah-tengah pekan Kota Bharu pada tahun 1960an.

Ada Adun dari Pasir Mas yang disumbat ke dalam penjara hingga menjadi hilang ingatan.

Ada jambatan dibakar di Rantau Panjang untuk menyekat pengundi-pengundi PAS dari keluar mengundi.

Ada penjawat awam yang menyokong gerakan Islam yang ditukar, ditahan kenaikan gaji dan disekat kenaikan pangkat.

Ada yang dicerai dan hidup menjanda kerana rumahtangga mereka porak peranda akibat suami yang disumbat ke penjara melalui ISA. Semuanya ini terlalu banyak berlaku di Kelantan.

Di Kedah pula, 14 orang ustaz dan orang awam dikepung dan ditembak hidup-hidup pada tahun 1986. Memali tiba-tiba menjadi kolam darah yang mengambus jasad syuhada, pejuang dan para wali.
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written by SUV, July 11, 2008 12:33:03
Tanpa segan silu, Umno jugalah yang menafikan banyak peruntukan pusat dari mengalir ke Kelantan dan Terengganu. Siapa berani mengatakan bahawa sekatan penerimaan royalti minyak kepada Kerajaan Negeri Terengganu diantara tahun 1999 ? 2004, misalnya, tidak berunsur politik?

Kini, Umno memutuskan Kerajaan Terengganu diberikan semula royalti kerana diperintah oleh Umno/BN.

Tidak zalimkah lagi? Lihatlah betapa siksanya pejuang-pejuang, penyokong-penyokong dan pencinta Islam untuk hidup di bawah dasar-dasar kemelayuan Umno yang melampau.

Pendek kata, terlalu panjang senarai kezaliman yang dilakukan oleh Umno kerana mengambil kebangsaan dan meninggalkan Islam.

Kini setelah 50 tahun, segala kudis, nanah, panau dan kurap penyakit asobiyah telah keluar ke permukaan.

Ada kes pembunuh Altantuya yang disebut-sebut melibatkan pemimpin tertinggi Umno. Setelah DSAI tidak terbukti melakukan liwat walaupun dituduh melakukan liwat 10 tahun yang lalu, kini dituduhnya beliau sekali lagi melakukan liwat. Lagi!

Belum reda dengan kemarahan rakyat mengenai kenaikan harga petrol, rakyat dihidangkan pula dengan berita terlepasnya Pulau Batu Putih daripada tangan Malaysia.

Entah. Saya tidak nampak cahaya lagi di hujung terowong masa depan untuk Malaysia baik dunia atau akhirat selagi berada di bawah Umno/BN. Majoriti rakyat pun saya kira sudah berkesimpulan begitu.

Ini boleh dikesan melalui pelbagai tulisan-tulisan kekecewaan baik di akhbar perdana, warta-warta mingguan, media-media nyamuk dan suara-suara berita dari akhbar-akhbar alternatif. Jika orang muda yang selalu buka laman web dan blog, fenomena ini semakin jelas.

Apa yang ada di hadapan rakyat sekarang cuma satu sahaja iaitu memilih Pakatan Rakyat sebagai kerajaan alternatif.

TUAN GURU DATO' NIK ABDUL AZIZ BIN NIK MAT
Menteri Besar Kelantan

6 Rejab 1429/ 9 Julai 2008. - mr_


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written by Tom n Jerry, July 11, 2008 12:36:12
Here is areal life episode about going to the mosque!My adopted sonwho is a muslim used to go to the mosque at Bukit Padang for Friday prayers!He always go in sandals,value about Rm10 plus!One fine friday he could not find his sandals after the friday prayers!He was forced to return home*kaki ayam*From then onwards he willgo for friday prayers injapanese sandals for bathroom!To avoid pilferage!How ironic!Arent people supposed to be holy when they go to the mosque?Are you supposed to steal someone*s sandal ther?Food for thought!
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written by clting08, July 11, 2008 12:41:25
I am not a muslim and have not right to comment, but I can differenciate who is good muslim and who is bad muslim. I don't know who is bad muslim but for sure I know Tok Guru Nik Aziz is a good muslim..
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written by BORN FREE, July 11, 2008 12:42:14
Holiness and Sincerity comes from within the heart.
There is no need to force to pray as many times as possible
as long as the heart is PURE, it will lead to good attitude.
Good attitude will lead to well mannered with good character.
As long as we can practise this, then we will all live in harmony.
Just take a look at our Bodowi, he appears to be holy but then his
heart is not as pure as it looks, thus leading to corruptions etc in him.
At the end of the journey, we must be brave to be able to face God, our maker, into his eyes !
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written by Mr Smith, July 11, 2008 12:43:04
Raja,
Well, written and how true.
I have some friends who say they are forgive each time they pray, fast and go to Mecca. So they continue to sin and pray.
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written by cwy, July 11, 2008 12:47:07
Let me talk about good Muslim.
Good muslim should
1. pray 5 times a day, if it's office hour, let the non-Muslim do all the jobs.
2. look closely and admire at those women who cover up their bodies as much as
possibe.
3. Try to marry 4 wives if you are able to.
4. Commit crime only when there are less than 4 people (witnesses) around.
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written by BennyG, July 11, 2008 12:48:15
We do not fear "God" as we see all the corrupt people living a luxurious life while those fearing "God" are only managing to survive through their debts.

Why talk about "God" when humans themselves could control their destinies? Why talk about "God" when humans allow other humans to be and remain corrupt?

In fact, I even doubt 8 March would be any different from previous elections. BUT I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED. Unfortunately will PR be any different? Racism and intolerance still exists on both sides.

If not for RPK, I would have given up hope on seeing a better Malaysia. Thank you RPK.
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written by arazak, July 11, 2008 12:49:10
Tom and Jerry,

Those Muslims who stole your son's sandals are bad Muslims, inddeed. But what is worrying are the bad Muslims who are rulling the nation. They stole billions of Ringgit from the nation's coffer. For instance the Terengganu Petroleum royalty meant for poor Muslims and non-Muslims alike in Terengganu are robbed by the Nation's leaders and their cronies. Another example, is buying the defence equipment meant to protect the rakyaat with obsolete technology and getting kickbacks of RM500 million under the guise of "commission".These are some examples of bad Muslims rulling the country.

They are really, really, bad Muslims . . . , and they go to Umrah every year!!! smilies/angry.gif
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written by nothing less, July 11, 2008 12:50:19
This the proof that Allah / God is above all the court rullings,above all politicians, abboev all corrupted and racist BN officials. Just because its a Church being built, they want to destroy it. Ones a church is built and there is worship being done than its becomes God's house. Jesua said, " where 2 or 3 of you a gathered in My name, I will be the among you".So ask that any one of the corrupted BN officials and their goons who dare to demolish it, do their work. Any way it was done in the orang asal settelment in Johor. But let me remind you that whoever does that their names will be written for them to be heard later in life.But you brothers and sisters in Christ, you must FORGIVE them because they no not what they do. Any way for my brothers in the church who have to resort to candlelight for worship, fear not because He is among you. And a beutiful song by Michael W Smith link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aicOiTUPF0
and lyrics as below.

ABOVE ALL

Above all powers above all kings
Above all nature and all created things
Above all wisdom and all the ways of man
You were here before the world began

Above all kindgoms above all thrones
Above all wonders the world has ever known
Above all wealth and treasure of the earth
There's no way to measure what You're worth

Crucified laid behind a stone
You lived to die rejected and alone
Like a rose trampled on the ground
You took the fall and thought of me
Above alL
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written by teo siew chin, July 11, 2008 12:51:52
So many a time has YM RPK delivered this message to us!
It is always the practitioner of a religion that save or sink the faith.
It is we ourselves who can reflect a religion in a good or bad light.

If one cannot be a good guy, just don't declare what your religion is. period.

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written by Spear Bing, July 11, 2008 12:54:56
Blunt....frank...candid....forthright....succinct....starkly realistic.. pique.. stinging... stunning ..et al

Who else can express such viewpoints without fear or favour other than RPK himself? No mincing of words..... and that's what make RPK so endearing in this defining moments.
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written by Rock, July 11, 2008 12:54:58
Not all muslims are good muslims. Only good muslims will show the true goodness of Islam. But we can try to make muslims to be good, starting by compelling them to do the obligatory prayers. we hope that Allah will give them guidance to be good or at least it could eliviate the notch of amar maarof, thus will help to decend Allah barakat from heavens
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written by teo siew chin, July 11, 2008 12:55:42
BTW, how many "religious" people are gonna follow YM RPK to jail in the name of TRUTH and JUSTICE?
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written by Pato, July 11, 2008 12:55:55
Tun Daim – Secrets Revealed
http://www.malaysia.net/lists/...1319.html



Truth is stranger than fiction

Books have been written about Tun Daim Zainuddin, but not many people know who the real Daim is. He is famous for being taciturn.....

Read more at....
http://www.malaysia.net/lists/...1319.html


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written by James Loh, July 11, 2008 13:01:08
We can solve reduce corruption, rape case, robbery, etc with any methods are through religion or current secular government laws. It's all about a system that will hold people accountable for any crimes or wrongdoing. For instance, if a politician is found guilty of corruption then he or she needs to face the law. Needless to say, we never prosecute corrupted politician. You don’t need Islamic law to stop corruption. All you need is a government that will uphold the law.

For example, there was once I shouted at my mother. Because I didn’t show respect towards my mother, I was cane real bad by my brother. Ever since then, I don’t shout at my mother anymore.

We have very good civil laws in Malaysia. Yet we don’t have politicians and judges with the integrity to uphold the law. Therefore, we have corruption problems. Look at Singapore. They don’t have Islamic law yet their corruption is whole lot better than us. Why?

Lastly, religion is a personal thing.

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written by non conformist, July 11, 2008 13:02:40
Legislated religion is invariably a faked and hypocritical religion, producing hypocrites and deceivers for material gains.


"23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth"
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written by panca, July 11, 2008 13:03:01
Truth be spoken, Truth as 'Spoken'.
Truth is Unpretentious, Truth is Sincere.
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written by Bosan, July 11, 2008 13:05:09
I believe good education and self discipline is better than praying five or more times a day, and this includes non muslims too.
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written by ahmadneil, July 11, 2008 13:05:42
This nation calling itself islamic and yet it's denying half its population their basic rights.I know only one good muslim in malaysia and that is RPK.
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written by Sembahyanglahkamu, July 11, 2008 13:11:41
Dear Readers,
Corret me if Im wrong, pardon me if u feel offended but these thoughts has been in my numdskull for quite sometime and I would like to share with readers of malaysia today.
Lets us see around us as in Malaysia and around the world, Islam is actually a very unique as compared to other religions.
But what I dont understand is why are they always fighting amongst themselves as in the Middle East & Alfhanistan.
Is it because they are from different religious sect.
They always use JIHAD as an excuse for their cause.
Name me what other religions other than Islam that have the same problems.
My answer is none.
So what Im thinking is in this world we are living in lets take out all the islamic countries that are problematic.
Then we will be living in a very peaceful world. Dont u readers agree with me.
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written by temenggong, July 11, 2008 13:13:28
These 'bad muslims' pray 5 times a day? And these 'bad muslims' go for umrah you say?

Damn, this connection did not occur to me! I didn't know that prayers can create so much hypocrisy and damage!

And now Kelantan wants all civil servants to pray 5 times a day, and turn good malays into bad muslims, just like the malays in the other states?
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written by temenggong, July 11, 2008 13:15:45
I think I'll cut my prayers to just once a day. Or maybe even once a week. Really I don't want to be a bad or a hypocrite.
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written by nocrid, July 11, 2008 13:16:46
What is even more interesting to note is that their wives are ‘decently’ dressed with headscarf (tudung) and all. They also go to Mekah to perform their umrah and/or haj as often as they can, time and money permitting. But they are corrupted as hell. And they don’t even mind taking bribes from pork sellers, pubs, gambling dens, brothels and loan sharks.


This is like credit card... You use the card corrupt and you pray pay back... and before you got angry saying I do not understand Islam and pls shut the hell up as you always said when some one critics you.....I am not talking about Islam....Islam is a religion and it does not even involved in this post here....am I right?
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written by James Loh, July 11, 2008 13:18:52
Hi Sembahyanglahkamu:

Firstly, none of us are perfect. If we choose to discuss about religion and there will be no end. Lastly, are we going to benefit with from discussion.

I prefer to see the strength of every religion. That's it.

Peace
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written by Nyabur Gerasi, July 11, 2008 13:21:20
A good muslim is a person who believe in Islam in his heart and not cried out loud (thru the loud speaker) that he/she prays 5x or more times a day, not speaking the words of hatred towards the non believers. None will know he/she is a good muslim apart from God nor did the human beings.

But the bad ass muslim will scream to the rest of the world that he will sleep with the virgin after he/she blows himself, crying the Isrealites is the devil while the non muslim is a low ass human being that can be killed in the name of Allah.

Even tuan hajis nowdays can rape your daugther, receiving bribes and watch porn movies.
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written by cubi76, July 11, 2008 13:21:33
Food for thought - Are those Islamic countries corruption-free, and better off? Interestingly, I find that the opposite is true.

Perhaps Malaysia should follow China footstep, convicted corrupt --> SHOT!
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written by ctchoolaw, July 11, 2008 13:23:04
RPK, your views are a source of light for many (if not all) of us. Your voice is always consistent with the principles of RUKUNEGARA. More so, than the idiots who run the federal govt! http://ctchoolaw.********.com/
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written by cheekhiaw, July 11, 2008 13:24:49
Some say there is no point talking about the fumblings of the blind men coming out from the dark ages.

They prefer to see the beauty in their sways as they fumble about...
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written by wongnoball, July 11, 2008 13:25:04
NOTE: Comment deleted. Not relevant
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written by FFT, July 11, 2008 13:36:49
No surprise what RPK is positing here on the persecution of non-Muslims. Hear from yourselves what goes on inside mosques:



And here is the British documentary based on undercover investigations into mosques:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

It is divided into into 6 parts. Watch it to understand why Muslims generally attract hate and derision.

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written by Tom n Jerry, July 11, 2008 13:37:10
Aprayer is not dependent on the length or frequency but in utmost sincerity&mindfulness!anyone can pray for 24 times a day but still full of shit i his mentality because of cloudy brain,low IQ or tiga suku!My very good doctor friend,DR.Ti practising in Penang confirmed *choo now* is good for IQ!Perhaps should give it a try!Scientifically it has been proven to contain high cholesterol but very good for production of the male hormone! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Jit Dharma, July 11, 2008 13:54:22
Pity the Jahuts. They are being punished for converting to Christianity, perhaps as a warning to other Orang Asli. Brother RPK is upset because their intent seems fairly obvious.
Talk about picking on the disadvantaged. Of course, they ought to show largeness of heart
and spirit if they intend to glorify their faith and Creator. This is true of all religions.
We no longer display our actions in front of those only of our faith. We do so in front of
all humanity. And our actions speak the truth of our spiritual depth.
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written by Kopi37, July 11, 2008 13:55:09
What is the point of praying even 10 times a day when it is only a posture to show that you are pious to the Almighty God! It is even useless when someone pray without the mind and the heart merely an exercise to waste the precious productive times that we have in a day and supposed to contribute to the efficiencies of proper duties en tasked!

This may tantamount to an act of a hypocrite and surely it is not what the Almighty God preaches!
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written by maisur, July 11, 2008 13:55:46
OMG what is happening to this country??? bad politics, bad economy, bad services. now islamisation is creeping like there is no time! there is only one option... migrate now and your kids future is secured!
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written by hopman, July 11, 2008 13:58:53
Dear RPK,

What you say is very true and it should not apply to muslims only. All religions face this same issues. The biggest sinners will pray the most times, built the most places of worships and will try to pretend to do anything to appease god/allah. All is because of their guilt and sins they commit. All religions teaches every human being to have a compassionate heart. If everyone has compassion in themselves all the issues we faced today can be easily overcome. Yet today, as we see religions is not the issue here but its about us human beings and we make use of religions to justify our actions.If all of us were to take a step back and find the compassion in us, Malaysia and the whole world would be a better places to live with. I might be dreaming but I still hope that one day it will come true.
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written by tenang, July 11, 2008 14:04:55
written by Sembahyanglahkamu, July 11, 2008 | 13:11:41
Dear Readers,
..lets us see around us as in Malaysia and around the world, Islam is actually a very unique as compared to other religions...


Dear Sembahyanglahkamu,
If our fellow muslims Malaysians are in trouble, don't you need to give your helping hands and encouragement. What you have put down here at the last few sentences is far from a helping hand. Bother to give another try?
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written by eeyaw, July 11, 2008 14:07:08
G'Day Abang,
You are spot on about the ritualistic aspect of the religion be it Islam or the Catholic faith! The act of rituals is more of obligations rather than what's from the heart. I still see Malaysia full of hypocrites going round telling other peoples that this or that is wrong while they are happily taking bribes & commiting other sins. To you scumbags especially amno by your act you are not entitled to criticize other! Just have a serious look at yourself in the mirror b4 you cast doubts on others. Absolutely hypocrites of the first order!
Justice for Altantuya!!!!!
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written by miwaki, July 11, 2008 14:11:37
Education to acquire wisdom ( not knowledge) is important,praying is not because when you pray,you ask something in return.This is bribery !
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written by Huador, July 11, 2008 14:14:49
RPK,

I just want to add on what you said about Muslims. Every Friday, A military General will take time off during Friday prayers to come to a condo and "pray" with his sexy mistress. The Mistress always wearing sexy baju kurung would be kissing him bye dear at 2.30 while the General would proceed to play golf. The poor private driver or machai would have to wait in the government own Perdana and switch on the aircond while his boss is "praying" with his mistress upstairs. Poor guy he cannot pray but must wait at the car park. His boss must be next to heaven as they are doing it almost every Friday.

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written by alhadee, July 11, 2008 14:48:42
Masya Allah, I was wrong! There are actually 7 pillars of Islam.

The first 5 are;

1. Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
2. Establishment of the daily prayers;
3. Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
4. Self-purification through fasting; and
5. The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

The extra 6th and 7th are;

6. All of the above should be done in publicly and be declared to be fulfilled to your employers, friends, families and etc. In other words, be a show off.

7. All of the above should be force upon Muslims. If this does not work, force harder!

Courtesy of:

Joint PAS-UMNO Taliban Research Centre
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written by shangrilapeace, July 11, 2008 15:06:47
RPK,
You have a basket full of eggs. Big & small ones. Every time you broke one,
a new 'firework' brighten up the sky. It extends my sights, hearings and lay out large amount of truthful information unobtainable in the past. Below is your paragraph that speaks volume in itself. Thank you. Appreciated it.

'In the first place, I do not defile Islam. I defile Muslims. And in case many of you do not understand the difference, let me assure you that there is a difference. But seriously, do you even need me to do the dirty job of defiling Muslims? I mean, Muslims are handling that job very well by themselves they do not need my help one bit. What further damage can I do to Muslims that they already do not do to themselves?'
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written by Steven Tan, July 11, 2008 15:18:40
RPK,

Tulisan and sungguh bererti, sangat adil dan sememangnya anda layak menghakimi segala insiden di dalam negara kita. Saya amat gembira dan kagum dengan cara RPK berfikir, bukan sahaja berpemikiran terbuka malahan mengambil kira untung rugi dari semua aspek dan melibatkan untung rugi semua pihak tanpa mengira kaum dan agama.

Izinkan saya berkongsi pandangan saya mengenai Subjek "Sembahyang 5 Kali Sehari".

1) Sekiranya syarat sembahyang 5 kali menjadi syarat untuk mendapatkan kerja dan naik pangkat, secara otomatik syarat tersebut seolah-olah seperti meRASUAH seseorang untuk melakukan sesuatu aktiviti.

2) Saya masih percaya dan yakin iaitu untuk mendapatkan pekerjaan dan kenaikkan pangkat kelulusan akedemik, pengalamam dan kebolehan tersendiri di dalam menjalankan tugas harus dijadikan sukatan untuk kemajuan setiap individu di dalam bidang pekerjaan.

3) Isu SEMBAHYANG, samada seseorang muslim sembahyang 5 kali, berpuasa dll adalah melibatkan di antara beliau dan Tuhan, setiap kali urusan sembahyang dikerjakan ianya perlu datang dari hati orang tersebut dan sekali-kali tidak daripada paksaan orang lain atau pun kerana mendapat habuan (kenaikkan pangkat dan sebagainya). Sekiranya dia berdosa (dalam urusan sembahyang,puasa dll) biarlah Tuhan saja yang mengadili dan menghukum beliau dan bukan kita umat manusia yang menjadi Tuhan dan menghukum seseorang.

4) Sekiranya apa yang diperkatakan oleh Kerajaan PAS benar, iaitu sembahyang 5 kali boleh menghindari seseorang drpd rasuah dan lain-lain gejala tidak sihat, saya percaya tidak akan timbul sebarang masalah sebegini di Timur Tengah terutamanya di Arab Saudi tetapi sabah hari kita membaca berita mengenai gejala-gejala tidak sihat seperti kes rogol amah, zina, khalwat, kecurian dan sebagainya. Kalau sembahyang 5 kali boleh menggelakkan semua ini maka tidak perlu ada pasukan polis dan lain-lain PBT di Arab Saudi kan.

RPK telah menjelaskan 10 kali lebih jelas drpd penjelasan saya mengenai penyalahgunaan kuasa, penyalahgunaan wang rakyat dan sebagainya. Saya sebenarnya bukannya menentang atau pun menghalang urusan sembahyang sesuatu kaum TETAPI apa yang saya maksudkan di sini ialah lakukannya (sembahyang) di dalam masa rehat atau pun masa lapang anda tanpa mengganggu urusan kerja.

Seperti kata beberapa saudara kita iaitu hanya 5 minit diperlukan untuk sembahyang, jadi gunakanlah 5 minit tersebut daripada masa makan anda, masa rehat anda dan bukannya dengan menutup kaunter pejabat(tanah,majlis perbandaran, bank, pos dll)untuk pergi bersembahyang. Sebenarnya masalah sebegini memang sering terjadi di tempat kerja saya di mana dengan alasan 5 minit tersebut mereka akan meninggalkan tempat kerja utk bersembahyang tetapi mereka kembali semula ke tempat kerja mereka selepas lebih drpd 15 minit dan kadang-kadang hampir setengah jam untuk satu sessi sembahyang. Dengan perkataan lain hanya dengan alasan 5 minit, lebih kurang 23 JAM akan dihabiskan dalam masa sebulan untuk urusan sembahyang oleh setiap kakitangan Kerajaan Kelantan tidak lama lagi.

5) Cuba fikir seketika, bagaimanakah seseorang kakitangan BUKAN ISLAM yang bekerja di pejabat yang sama akan menerima hakikat yang beliau perlu terus bekerja sedangkan rakan sejawat mereka yang beragama Islam telah keluar untuk sembahyang. Dengan perkataan lain kakitangan bukan Islam kena bekerja 23 jam lebih dibandingkan dengan rakan sejawat mereka yang beragama Islam SETIAP BULAN dan yang lebih mengejutkan ialah ciri-ciri untuk kenaikkan pangkat pula dilihat dari sudut lengkapnya seseorang kakitangan kerajaan Kelantan bersembahyang 5 kali sehari.

6) Apa yang saya jelaskan di atas adalah berkisar mengenai masalah dalamam. Sekarangkan izinkan saya untuk membawa pandangan saudara-saudari ke sudut luaran. Keadaan ekonomi sesebuah negara seperti negara kita banyak bergantung kepada PELABURAN ASING. Sekiranya isu-isu sebegini bertambah dari hari ke hari, saya percaya pelabur asing tidak akan berminat untuk melabur di negara kita kerana sebagai seorang ahli perniagaan yang melabur berjuta-juta ringgit, mereka tidak mahu rugi. Oleh yang demikian mereka akan beralih arah ke negara-negara yang menguntungkan mereka dan tidak mempunyai masalah-masalah sebegini. Oleh yang demikian negara-negara membangun seperti Vietnam, China, Thailand dll akan mendapat pelaburan asing yang sepatutnya kita dapat. Sepatutnya gelaran "Detroit Of Asia" menjadi milik kita tetapi hari ini gelaran tersebut menjadi milik Thailand....fikirkanlah

Oleh yang demikian, saya amat sangat berharap agar saudara-saudari dapat berpemikiran terbuka dan memandang jauh seperti RPK dan Noor Aza Othman. Akhir kata, saya menyusun sepuluh jari memohon ampun dan maaf sekiranya segala penjelasan saya menguris hati mana-mana pihak.
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written by Somewhere I Belong, July 11, 2008 15:25:40
Quite ttrue about Muslim!
No matter how you pray 5 times a day or fasting, but if you take bribe,what's the point of being a GOOD muslim?!
I have this kind of experience before. Honestly, i'm not a good muslim, i'm an occasional drinker, i don't wear head scarf (tudung) and also i don't pray 5 times a day, what more to say about fasting! Ok. Fine with that!

But what i hate most, about muslim trying to show that they are a good MUSLIM! There's one case,when one lady in my office, who wears head scarf, and talks about Islam, try to show to us that she prays 5 times day and yet, she sometimes skips her pray time, back stab most of us in the office, throw things to us, complaining about the employees to our bosses (pekerja yg di sayangi bos!) and hell yeah, she talks about religion to me just because i don't pray and wear tudung. And yes, she always said that i should go and pray, bla3..

So much for being a good true muslim eh?
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written by Richard Lo, July 11, 2008 16:03:32
Quoted from a news report from Malaysia Insider.

"In a symbolic gesture , Najib was given the honour to speak after Abdullah. Najib gave a presidential-like speech which motivated the unsure audience.

His clever use of humour defused the atmosphere filled with tension. The highlight of his speech was when he swore in the name of God that he has never met the deceased Altantuya Shaariibuu. At the end, he deserved his standing ovation."

RPK, I totally agree with you. Praying five times a day and carrying out all the religious ritual does not make one a good muslim if he/she continues to commit sins. So what if DPM sworn in the name of God that he has never met the deceased Altantuya, if DPM has already committed all the sins and did not repent from it. At the end of the day, for a seemingly religious person, it is more important that the public think that the seemingly religious person is not guilty and he is willing to swear in the name of God just to prove his innocence. The seemingly religious person already knows in his heart that he will go to hell, so what the heck, one more lie will not rescue his soul. He might as well enjoy the luxury of the temporal live as he is going to have eternal suffering.
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written by isa affendi, July 11, 2008 16:19:17
I agree too with eeyaw's comment. Even in other major religions you will always have these kind of people. In other parts of the world, they go to church or temples all the time, but practise corruption like it was a natural thing.
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written by tzarina, July 11, 2008 16:43:05
Yes, Nik Aziz is a good Muslim. However, he cannot vouch for every Ali, Abu and Ani in the civil service who pray and fast are good Muslims. So the ruling to ensure Muslims pray 5 times a day is not well taught.

I agree that people like to think a feller who is religious is a good, honest feller. However, there are MANY MANY non-religious people who are good, honest, trustworthy and will run the other way when offered a bribe. Religion is just ONE method to obtain a strong set of principles in life. Other methods are education, awareness and experience. To claim piousness as the ONLY way to interpret whether a human being is strong of principles is a sin of arrogance by itself!
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written by ourtide, July 11, 2008 16:46:09
Dear RPK,

Pigeonholing whenever it suits you - Good Muslims, Bad Muslims

Being force to perform salat(prayer) before the the coming of age(baligh) is a practice demanded of the family unit that profess Islam. It is part of the training for the young boy who, Allah willing, will later become a true practitioner of Islam. Boarding school took it upon itself that it is her responsibility to provide you with the facility to practice Islam in the best possible way. Mind you it was a training for you to concentrate on what you supposedly believe in. Whatever was in your mind other than salat were mere childplay and figment of your imagination - what did you expect at that age! You had gone through the training nevertheless, surely by now you would have gain something to reflect on lest you would be some of those who are/were misguided! Allah forbids...

The character of true practitioner of Islam (Al Muttaqun) are well explained in the Quran. Salat(Iqamat-as-salat) -five-time-a-day prayer- being one of them, is the most obvious to the public eye. There are, of course, other characteristics of true muslim that are open to public scrutiny. These are well intended because Islam is a social religion!

Now, are your 'Good Muslim-Bad Muslim' personalities practice true Islamic values? Mind you, to be a Muttaqun you will have to willingly accept and practice the Islamic values wholesomes. Selective and Piecemeal practice of those values is not Islam. We have name for these people - Fasiq (Allah forbids us from becoming one...), What you have probably seen a lot are the characters of Fasiq--And it is probably one of the sign of the end of time.

Dear RPK, I think you have the responsibility to explain these little teeny-weeny differences to your readers--especially on the concept of good muslim and bad muslim (A good person may be a practitioner of Islam or a practitioner of some other believe systems (he/she could be an ethical anarchist for all I know)). I would like to remind you as I remind myself that simplistic pigeonholing is dangerous and extrapolating from that position is suicidal.
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written by chaimah, July 11, 2008 16:47:14
If the Jahut Christians had already won a compensation of $35,000 to rebuild their church why is water and electricity still denied. Where is the humanity in all this.Innocent until proven guilty. On one hand they are proven innocent on the other they are considered guilty until proven innocent. What kind of crap are our judges practising – a judge is suppose to be the guardian of justice.

Are we to assume that if you are a good muslim it means you pray 5 times a day or if you pray 5 times a day you are a good muslim, of course not, irrespective of which religion.

When our lawmakers take up their ministerial positions aren’t they forced to uphold the law – has it done any good?
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written by budakindia, July 11, 2008 17:27:11
and they said Islam Hadhari is supposed to be moderate Islam! Hahaha! Smells and sounds like pure barbarianism to me! Another barbarianism to add in the list of:
1) Body snatching
2) Dog poisoning
3) Temple demolition
4) Forbade the use of God!

Malaysia, a truly barbarian country!
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written by rockli, July 11, 2008 17:35:57
This country belongs to the Natives and yet there are marginalised.
What is this Islam Hadhari doing?
The indigenous people cannot choose n practice whichever faith thet want - is this the
UMno way.
Look at how the Aussies treat the aborigines nowadays - treated as ordinary Aussies.
No hostility towards them.
The BN govt is not fit to Rule this Great Land period!
Let's us get rid of them.
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written by my oumrie, July 11, 2008 17:44:47
Hey Sembahyanglahkamu, you have a very short memory. Have you forgotten the killings between the British soldiers & Irish IRA? They are also from different "Mahzahabs" i.e. Church of England (Protestants) against Catholic IRA. I believe they don't kill for the sake of religion, but instead hide behind religion to satisfy their own greed! Read it and weep for the good old days when your memory was better lah!
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written by michael, July 11, 2008 17:49:01
To speak candidly, there really is no Good Muslim or Bad Muslim, only Muslims or Non- Muslims

If you follow your God’s Truth, you are a Muslim. Otherwise, you don’t deserve to be called a Muslim.

And sadly, there isn’t any Muslim BN Cabinet Ministers, only Pretenders. If Malaysia had been run by Muslims, Malaysia today would have been a true model state for the rest of the world to emulate. There would not only be Great Peace, Progress and Harmony but also Great Compassion and Love for all regardless of race, religion or creed.

A Muslim leader will be someone in the mold of RPK.
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written by cheemengwong, July 11, 2008 18:05:33
Dear RPK,

I know this ex army guy who started this orang Asli church in kampung Pasu. Real humble guy from Klang who takes time weekly to visit the church. He even bless the pastor with a motorbike when he has got nothing. This orang asli are very straightforward people. To them a promise is meant to be kept and not broken. If you tell them God forbid, they will not do it, not like our so called Muslim brothers who are hippocrates. You tell the orang asli that you provide water you better provide otherwise don't let it come out from your big mouth. They understand the concept of God better than many Muslims here lah!
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written by Milo, July 11, 2008 18:39:55
Its chief, Salahuddin Ayub, in a statement issued today, said the move, besides instilling fear of God among civil servants, would also deter them from engaging in corrupt practices, like bribery, breach of trust and misappropriation.
-----------------------------------------------------

Always wonder why we need to FEAR GOD (who is supposed to have unbounded love for everyone) before we can do good and avoid evils. Goodness and evils are the yin & yang in our nature and its manifestation cannot be due to an intervening God. There are so many religions in the world, and almost everyone has one because he is accidently born into a paticular family. It does not make any sense that you are make to go to hell for no other reason than to be born into the the 'wrong family'. This type of 'conditional' religiousity based on FEAR of God is a sure recipe for hypocrisy as shown by many of our 'Pious' political leaders. We see this time and again and all over the world, but do we ever learn? sigh...
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written by tzarina, July 11, 2008 19:50:38
fendyoasis,

You don't believe people who pray 5 times a day are corrupt? Really? Well, here is only ONE out of many stories I myself can tell you:

I was rejected PTPTN, although my father had been a civil servant for many decades, and we are from a poor family. My grades were very good, but I am an Indian. So in an effort to appeal, my dad took me to see his superior. It was the day before the appeal deadline. We had to wait from 12.30pm up to 4pm under the hot sun, because his superior went for prayers in his surau, and went to sleep there. We begged others to wake him up, but non of his Muslim colleagues dared because it is kononnya "dosa" to wake someone up in the surau. I was there. I experienced what "prayer" means to civil servants. And I will never forget this incident, because it almost cost me my education.

So please don't tell me that a man who goes to the surau is a pious and responsible and honest man. And please while you are trying to understand where I am coming from, also try to explain to yourself why is it that cars are always double parked on MAIN ROADS outside and around mosques on Fridays, causing congestion. My own sister's wedding almost horribly went wrong because our car was blocked by double parked cars! We are unfortunate that our house is opposite a mosque!

So don't tell me otherwise. I am sure many others have similar stories to tell!
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written by ahmadneil, July 11, 2008 20:03:39
ere is the only way to be a good muslim 1,just murmur five times a day and think of where to have a good beer tonite. 2,go to mecca with your love one 3,don't shave your goat beard 4,take 4 wives and divorce them with sms 5,laze around and wait for gov't handout 6,have more children so can claim welfare. 7,put on more weight to show people they are wealthy
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written by Friez, July 11, 2008 20:19:21
I'm a Muslim, but I would honestly prefer the leader's of my country to be Good People first, and Good Muslims (or Christians, or Buddhists etc) secondly.

Whether or not they are "good" by the definition of their chosen religion is between them and their god(s) and, if you think about it, should really be of no interest to you and me as the public. Their social contract as an elected leader is with us, the voting public. Their relationship with God is their own business.

I'm not a "good" muslim, in the sense that I'm not very good at observing all the required rituals, but I do believe in God, and if he is the fair, kind, caring and all-knowing deity that I believe him to be, I believe being a good person would still sit favourably in his eyes come judgement day.
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written by Steven Tan, July 11, 2008 20:38:29
Dear Fendyoasis,

I think it's time for you to give up... what RPK said was actually correct but of course it's very difficult to come out with statistic report. Earlier I've already given my point of view on what is happening around us. Frankly speaking you need to explore more on this subject then only you will know about the truth and the reality from the comment made by RPK. So for time being cool down and pray to the God so that He'll bless you with a peace of mind. Have a nice day....cheers
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written by apa jadi, July 11, 2008 20:39:29
Ermm.....I think it should be the good, the bad and the evil. I don't mind the bad(in a loose context). The evil ones are the ones getting overboard, doing evil deeds to mankind.
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written by nana tanjung, July 11, 2008 20:39:32
Raja Petra,

What is your point here? In a simple sentence, what are you trying to tell your readers; and what are you trying to tell Tok Guru?

Thank you.
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written by LEJO, July 11, 2008 21:33:14
"But it was demolished by the local authorities who ruled that they were erecting an illegal structure as they had not obtained proper approval from the authorities."

"In 2006, they won RM35,000 as compensation to rebuild their church, which they also use as a tuition centre for their school-going children, and as a nursery for the younger ones".

How to differentiate legal and illegaly structure????????????????
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written by malsia1206, July 11, 2008 21:50:02
There are many bad Muslims who do not adhere to their faith in as much as there are many bad Christians, Buddhists and Hindus. But I suppose the situation is worse for these Muslims because they form the majority of the Malaysians and are supposed to lead by example. You can bet there are many Christians who attend the Sunday service and come out none the better during the next 6 days in the week. And the same for the Buddhists who carry big joss sticks in the temples and come out heading straight to the gambling den. But these Christians and Buddhists do not make a farce over their religious practice compared with the Muslims. In this situation, we can all see who the hypocrites are all over in Malaysia. Boleh, Malaysian way.
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written by Panca Indera, July 11, 2008 22:38:26
written by nana tanjung, July 11, 2008 | 20:39:32
Raja Petra,

What is your point here? In a simple sentence, what are you trying to tell your readers; and what are you trying to tell Tok Guru?



If I may try to answer your questions
The Melayu Muslim Leadership (UmNO dominated) and 90% of Muslims in this Country cant tell the difference between real Islam as Preached by the Prophet and Quran and the ones preached by uneducated and misguided ULARMAKS.

Example: Four accepted SECTS (SUNNAH wal Jummah Konon!) When Allah says ONE.. They even try to be like The Christians Trinity. Quadity : Four in One.
You must follow one of the four school, If not, you are not a Muslim.
Thick as bricks smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
No Muslim being or group of Muslims have the right to dictate what school of thoughts to follow except what was practised by the Prophet and The Ahlul Bait.
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written by mgeo, July 11, 2008 22:39:19
Beware whenever form reigns over substance, or there is uncalled-for spouting of hot air: a sting is about to take place. I have not seen any exceptions to this rule. This also applies to those who misuse comments here to advertise their individual religiions.
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written by tzarina, July 11, 2008 23:04:14
Fendyoasis,

Muslims sleeping in surau during work hours, (in this case for at least 3 hours) is considered acceptable? It is IMPOLITE to wake them up?? Are you bleeding nuts?? Unethical behavior during working hours is CORRUPTION, which is not limited to bribes. And don't even let me get started on bribes. Everyone knows that the police, JPJ and many city council workers make up the core of our corrupt civil service. You telling me none of these people pray? Mosque attendance will drastically be reduced without them...

Civil servants' salary comes from the people's pockets. They are the people's SERVANTs. What right, nay, how DARE one sleeps on the job?

Do not defend "bad Muslims" for the sake of them being Muslims. You should be urging them to change for better, and be more ethical in their jobs, instead of giving out-of-the-world excuses for their misconducts, all because they go to mosque and "pray".

Btw, Thaipusam occurs ONCE in a year. Fridays are once in a WEEK. You wana compare 1 Day against an estimated 52 Days in a year?

Double parking ANYWHERE is unacceptable, be it for Thaipusam or for Friday prayers. I do not condone double parking during Thaipusam, unlike you who consider double parking during Fridays as your RIGHT. Telling people that they should not hold weddings and funerals and special functions on Fridays is moronic. Btw, the issue is parking, not traffic jams. Nowadays, everyday is a traffic jam day, regardless of what day it is.

People who tend to defend their race and religion, regardless of their atrociousness are fanatics. If everyone does that, humanity will simply cease to exist.

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written by Steven Tan, July 11, 2008 23:20:25
Sebenarnya topik ini berlarutan daripada semalam sehingga ada yang meminta pengadilan dan sokongan daripada RPK. Hari ini secara tidak langsung RPK telah memberikan pandangan peribadi beliau dan sokongan sebenar beliau MALANGNYA kepada sesetengah pihak pandangan dan sokongan yang mereka harapkan tidak diberikan oleh RPK oleh yang demikian RPK seolah-olah seperti orang jahat. Mungkin sekiranya RPK memberi pandangan seperti yang mereka harapkan mungkin beliau di pandang sebagai seorang yang adil seadil-adilnya.

Pada pandangan saya RPK adalah seorang yang profesional, berpemikiran terbuka dan pandang jauh. Kebenaran kepada isu sebenar telah beliau nyatakan dengan jelas sekali malangnya sesetengah mati-mati tidak mahu memahaminya atau pun sekurang-kurangnya cuba untuk memahaminya.

Walau bagaimana pun itu hak mereka dan kita tidak boleh paksa mereka bersetuju dengan kita. Diharap Tuhan akan membuka pintu hati mereka sebelum terlambat, mudah-mudahan....
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written by lynn, July 11, 2008 23:31:55
The world would be a better place without any dogmatic religion. Why does anyone need a religion to TEACH them corruption is very bad, having sex with your neighbour's wife is terrible, making her pregnant is the worst, lying to your kids, stealing your company's money is salah .... Pure common sense. Do you need a religion to teach you all that?

I think religion is meant for people who have poor faculty of thinking with reason and logic. Others think on their behalf, spell out what they need to do. And they just follow obediently. Malaysia has a lot of such people.

A friend's brother was on heroin for decades; finally one day they caught him, took him off the streets, sedated him to keep him mellowed, put him in a christian outfit, brainwashed him with religion & he has been there ever since.
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written by nana tanjung, July 11, 2008 23:39:16
Panca Indera...no thanx
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written by tzarina, July 11, 2008 23:50:29
Fendyoasis,

Corruption:
Sleeping on the job. Using government vehicles for personal reasons. Visiting mistress during office hours. "Borrowing" government's money. Recruiting family members and friends. Shopping during working hours. 1 hour coffee breaks. 2 hour lunches. Printing hundreds of pages for personal use in office printers. Stealing stationary. Claiming extra mileages. Cheating on over time. Claiming for food from "belanja-ing" family and friends. Claiming for "entertainment". Hiking up tender prices for family and friends. The list goes on and on and on...

Empathy. I empathize with non-Hindus when Thaipusam causes traffic jams. I empathize with the baby waking up early in the morning, screaming, when Azan is shouted using loudspeakers at the top of the shouter's lungs. I empathize with the Malay kuih seller when pork is sold opposite their stall. I empathize with the Hindu who has to see cows being slaughtered in Parliament. I empathize with Muslims when they are labeled as terrorists by ignorant westerners...

What do you empathize on?
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written by Noor Aza, July 12, 2008 00:07:15
Good on you Raja Petra! Brilliant comment! What an idiot that person is, by claiming that “let’s instill the fear in God’! Excuse me, how about “let’s instill LOVE in God and towards other human beings, regardless of whoever they are, like towards those unfortunate Christian Orang Asli community!”, from deep in your own heart and soul, personally! By the way, I don’t think there’s a God that says “oh my servants and slaves, be fearful of me; and be cruel to non-Muslims, women & girls or so-called non-pious Muslims”! This Dawud guy, are you trying to spread your Stone-Age and barbaric Taleban/Al-Qaeda ideology here? GET A REAL LIFE! AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, CAVE-MEN HEADS LIKE YOU MAKE ISLAM AND MUSLIMS INCLUDING YOURSELF A GREAT JOKE TO OTHER MUSLIMS AND NON-MUSLIMS ALIKE! HOW DARE YOU AND OTHERS LIKE THOSE MISGUIDED PAS TALEBAN/AL-QAEDA LOVERS SELF-ELECT YOURSELVES AS “GOD-(MALE) WARRIORS”! REALLY, GOD TALK TO YOU OR SOMETHING?!

NOOR AZA OTHMAN!
A LIBERAL-FEMINIST MALAY WOMAN!
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written by nana tanjung, July 12, 2008 00:08:09
This is simply a much ado about nothing...a case of tak hendak seribu dalih...

What Raja Petra wrote has been foretold by Allah 1400 years ago. Raja, may I suggest a reference to Surah al-Ma'un. The surah was revealed at a time when a myriad of factions were conspiring to contain the growing of Islamic influence. The surah discusses the character of those who appear to be Muslims but oblivious to the hereafter. So we know these kind of characters exist ever since.

Sounds familiar, huh? History repe
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written by maverich, July 12, 2008 00:13:05
Narrated Anas:

definition of a good muslim which was given by Prophet p.b.u.h

Narrated Abu Musa:

Some people asked Allah's Apostle, "Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?" He replied, "One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands


The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself.


based on these 2 hadiths , maybe 1 out o 100 muslims in our country is fit to be a good muslim .




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written by ROBERTNGTG, July 12, 2008 00:50:22
THE IGNORANT AND THE ARROGANT WILL BE MORE CONCERNED WITH FORMALITIES, OUTLOOK
AND EVEN WORSHIP THE ROBE.

IT IS THE HEART THAT MATTERS IN RELIGION. AND RPK, YOU SURE HV
A HEART OF PURE GOLD.
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written by mhwang, July 12, 2008 01:36:12
written by clting08 I am not a muslim and have not right to comment, but I can differenciate who is good muslim and who is bad muslim. I don't know who is bad muslim but for sure I know Tok Guru Nik Aziz is a good muslim..

Not only is he a good muslim but first and foremost he is a good leader, a good Malaysian and most importantly a good human being.
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written by temanmu, July 12, 2008 05:05:57
During fasting month, you can see many in 5 star hotels having their "buka puasa" meal... I know some GLC execs and their staff are in cahoots claiming the cost from their companies!

So here again the rakyat pays!
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written by matkreko, July 12, 2008 06:53:16
If there is such a bad or a good muslim...

I would like to ask, do you think that when someone (a muslim) commit an offence against God, murder for example... is s/he still a believer during s/he commit the murder?

It is a resounding NO! (If you search it up, I think there is a hadith about this...)

If s/he still a muslim after he commit the act, s/he will tell the truth and repent to God and will accept anything as punishment according to God's law. That's a true muslim...

If s/he hide the truth, lie etc. to escape the punishment in this world, then s/he do not really a true believer, or in other words a false believer... a false muslim. And as the "false" word implied, a "false muslim" is not a muslim.

In conclusion, there is no such things as a good muslim or a bad muslim. There's only a TRUE MUSLIM or a FALSE MUSLIM....
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written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 07:30:52
Dear RPK,

What is done by the Kelantan State govt. is an effort and it might not have a 100% effect, but a 80% effect is good enough. I guess you belonged to the 20% then RPK?

And, why did u publish the story of water being denied to churches in the same breath as the Kelantan plan to make people pray?

Has Kelantan ever denied water to churches in Kelantan? The case occured in Pahang, Najib's state not PAS?

Why mention both cases in the same breath? I sense malice, that's what i sense.

Anyone with a partially functioning brain will tell u that both story is irrelevant. Totally irrelevant.

As a closure, i use attend "civic" classes when I was in school. And true enough, not all my classmates turned out to be civic minded. My question to you RPK is should civic classes be stopped altogether in spite of some of it's students not being successfully educated?

There are a lot of good things that doesn't get 100% results when u do it, but it doesn't necessarily mean we have to stop doing it. For instance, jsut because a person works in a McDonald earning minimum wage, does it mean he has to quit working because he couldn't earn a 5 figure salary?

Think about it.
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written by alfchuah, July 12, 2008 08:35:11
I urge all Muslim to become Ijtihad instead of reciting and murmuring the Quran without really understanding it. If you really think about it, would Allah appreciate what you have done, for example, praying 5 times a day without doing what is really asked of you - the teaching of his? And most Muslim in the world, that do not come from Saudi Arabia, do not know how to read in Arabic, which is that the Quran is written in!

In short, what most Muslim are doing is that - they SHOW to people that they are Muslim, yet the inside of them is just empty. I think it's quite safe to say that about all religions. Being a religious person isn't just about "doing the 5 steps and you'll lost weight" - it's much deeper than that.

I strongly urge Muslim to read these books: The Trouble with Islam Today by Irshad Manji and The Caged Virgin by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. These are the people who have opened my eyes to Islam - what is truly is and how is has been abused; and how ignorant the followers really are, if they don't become "OPEN".
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written by alhadee, July 12, 2008 11:10:45
cabearth's,

Has Kelantan ever denied water to churches in Kelantan? The case occured in Pahang, Najib's state not PAS?


Kelatan never denied water to churches.

They demolished them. Kelantan is MORE ISLAMIC than Pahang!

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/68515

http://www.gospel2poor.org/jias.htm

And, why did u publish the story of water being denied to churches in the same breath as the Kelantan plan to make people pray?


I don't have anything against people praying. But why force people to do so? A prayer of 'lil-promotion' or 'lil-nik aziz says so' instead 'lillahitaala' means nothing.

I believe what RPK is trying to say is this,;

It is true that the Quran, Al-Ankabut, Verse 45 says 'Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds;'

However to obtain that 'for prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds', one must pray with all sincerity to Allah, and to concentrate in the prayer.

If one prays for other reason other than for Allah, for example to gain acknowledgment and promotions from his/her employers like the Kelantan State government or was forced to pray in one way or another, so how can his prayer restrain from shameful and unjust deeds?

RPK try to demonstrate this by citing his childhood experience.

You said

'might not have a 100% effect, but a 80% effect is good enough.'


Where is the proof that it is going to have 80% effect? I suppose you pluck this out of thin air like you always do?

Salahudin Ayub said;

said the move, besides instilling fear of God among civil servants, would also deter them from engaging in corrupt practices, like bribery, breach of trust and misappropriation.


No. It won't. It will instill fear of not getting promotions, fear of getting sacked instead of God. And how does this will deter them engaging in corrupt practices since the niat or intention of prayer is already wrong?

Religion should not be forced upon. Period.
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 12:06:59
Does the Malay Malaysian have MORE RIGHTS than the Orang Asli?

Does the Malay Malaysian have more rights than the other Bumiputeras?

They do! What's the difference? Islam? Being Muslims? Oh.

Very un-Islamic? VERY UNJUST.

True Malaysian! Open your eyes! There's an ethnic group of Malaysian who hides behind the Bumiputera 'umbrella' for the status AND only distributes the 'hand-out' only among themselves! For too long they have been playing and dancing around religion and ethnicity status!
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 13:10:29
Re: The Meek is NOT Inheriting the Earth.

Many believes that politics is sometimes a crooked/nasty business. Because of this belief, a conscientious (meek) person may not want to be involved in it. The more verbal and opinionated amongst us usually gets involve without hesitation. These proactive people usually flourish in the political arena.

Is it any wonder that the politicians are bullyish and practice bigotry? No wonder our political antics are so ludicrous.

May I suggest a Hindu to start a Hindu Party? ... a Christian start a Christian Party? Kena ada balance in representation.

Come-on!!! It's time the meek starts voicing out. Religion advocates tolerance, NOT passivity. Time to take-hold of your destiny.
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 13:12:25
Religion of FEAR !!!
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 13:44:48
fendyoasis wrote -
So what if Thaipusam is once a year? and fridays are 52 times, so u can bother us but we cant bother u?

Bigot! What a mentality... no wonder Muslims & Islam getting a bad name. If he's non-Muslim, the rest of you guys would be 'performing' the Jihad on him... hahaha.
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written by glock17, July 12, 2008 13:53:32
Please treat animals with humanity , especially 'em dogs. They are also God created creatures.

Glock17
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 13:55:17
I have seen on many, many occasions during non-Malay/Muslim celebrations/festivities whereby the vehicles there are 'summoned' the temporary structures 'pulled down'. Both police and council involved!

Care to comment anyone?

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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 13:56:10
Beh tar han !!!
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 14:08:14
Cik geh kar liau si MCA cho ki lai eh! Hor 'Huan-na' soot-kar-choui, soot kar kueh tau! Balu, kio wa-lang tiam-tiam ciak sai! (hokkien translator needed) smilies/grin.gif
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written by teohism, July 12, 2008 14:11:56
... still waiting...
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written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 15:23:39
Alhadee says
I don't have anything against people praying. But why force people to do so? A prayer of 'lil-promotion' or 'lil-nik aziz says so' instead 'lillahitaala' means nothing.

I believe what RPK is trying to say is this,;

It is true that the Quran, Al-Ankabut, Verse 45 says 'Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds;'

However to obtain that 'for prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds', one must pray with all sincerity to Allah, and to concentrate in the prayer.


Maybe if you're not so stupid, you will know that there are other verses that says prayers are compulsory. So, u enforce something that is compulsory. What's so wrong about that?

And, the same as Raja Petra, u missed the point by a mile.

How can u have people who do not pray suddenly pray for the sake of preventing vice like you mention above?

Alhadee, you can sometime be so impractical and not to mention idiotic

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written by Gondolf, July 12, 2008 16:11:07
written by teohism, July 12, 2008 | 14:08:14

Cik geh kar liau si MCA cho ki lai eh! Hor 'Huan-na' soot-kar-choui, soot kar kueh tau! Balu, kio wa-lang tiam-tiam ciak sai!

boh pean eh lar,we r d one voted them. irrelevant d.
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written by Panca Indera, July 12, 2008 17:36:05
written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 | 16:05:54
panca indera, how can u be so dumb. Ahlus Sunnah is only ONE sect, not four. Where u get your info from Panca Indera?
I'm dumb because AhliSunnah can come from only one of these four schools, i.e. Malikis, Hanafis, Hanbalis and Shafies Right?
These four groups who came up with there own interpretations of what are more correct and less correct and ready to kill for it.?
For example
1.Pubic/armpit hair growth longer then finger rap is haram.
2.Accidental Farting while praying is Ok with one group and not ok with the other group.
3.Accidental touching of your legally married wife annulled your cleanliness while accidental touching of the opposite sex during Tawaf is OK
4.Accidental burping during prayer is permitted with one group and not with the other group.
5.Drinking water Standing-up not permitted with one group

And the list go on and on……..
Definition

MAZHAB> SECT
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.

Yes! its not difficult to be so DUMB, when the ones around you are DUMBER
smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, July 12, 2008 18:28:34
i dunno...maybe rpk wants to awaken muslims...dat msulims must be tolerant,must be undersatnding,must allow secular muslims to drink n gamble..things like dat..ummm?
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written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 19:18:15
panca indera says

There we see Pancaindera's dumbness, all for MAZAHIB belongs to AHLUS SUNNAH. They're all ahlus sunnah wal jamaah.

Ahlus SUnnah refers to USULUDDIN while the MAzahib are schools of fiqh under ahlus sunnah.

the fact that u mention the 4 mazahib (in fact there is more) shows that you're dumb and don't know what Ahlus Sunnah means.

Go back and learn more, panca indera
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written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 19:21:36
If you go by the Language of the Quran which ALL Muslims should, including RPK, there is no such terminology as bad Muslims or good Muslims.

The Quran uses terms like:Unbelievers, Disbelievers; Hypocrites; Idolaters; Liars; Mischief Makers: Believers: Muslims to describe various categories of people , but never Good Muslims and Bad Muslims, Why?



Well if go by the Quran, the Al Hadeeth is the word of God (62:02) and following Quran Alone is ANTI QURAN (16:44)

But then again there are those who are dumb and cannot understand simple instructions provided by the QUran.

So, that's why you have Ahlus Sunnah, that is guaranteed to be on the right path by the Prophet SAW. And we have the many deviated ones, like the Quran Alone sect, which is not only UNQURANIC but also riddled with CONTRADICTIONS.

As for your claim of bad muslims and good muslims, didn't the Quran use the word "Al FASIQQUN"?

I told you that you're dumb, but you wont believe me.
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written by cabearth, July 12, 2008 19:22:40
These four groups who came up with there own interpretations of what are more correct and less correct and ready to kill for it.?
For example
1.Pubic/armpit hair growth longer then finger rap is haram.
2.Accidental Farting while praying is Ok with one group and not ok with the other group.
3.Accidental touching of your legally married wife annulled your cleanliness while accidental touching of the opposite sex during Tawaf is OK
4.Accidental burping during prayer is permitted with one group and not with the other group.
5.Drinking water Standing-up not permitted with one group


Well, these interpertation are based on As SUnnah, which is REVELATIONS FROM GOD 62:02
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written by slimbrowser, July 12, 2008 20:15:34
Perhaps what muslims need is to pray 50 times a day so that they don't have time even to suicide bomb. That way, everybody would be in peace and the muslims can be assured of a place in heaven without spilling blood.

Win-win situation.
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written by nana tanjung, July 12, 2008 22:25:22
akhi Rahman, that is exactly why I asked what is Raja Petra's point here? What is he trying to drive by lumping all those unrelevant story together.

Alas we got the same 'ol crap from the same myopic people without discussing the real issues.

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written by JohnQ, July 12, 2008 22:37:23
Religion could be a very 'IN" thing if you practice it wisely, like what RPK and Noor Aza did.

No comment if it is like what Cabearth do....Pls read Guv Veera mind
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written by kavidibaku, July 12, 2008 22:48:34
Religioun is very very private. It should not be forced in any manner. For example a school in Selangor forces its muslim students to perform prayers at school. During this prayer period, all teaching is stopped totally. the muslim students take their own sweet time to pray. the nons wander around the school doing nothing. my daughter was one of the victim and she simply could not stand this and i have shifted her to another non-muslim majority school.Why such things happen at national schools? Do it at sekolah agamalah. There only muslims study. But why in national school? Don't muslims know to respect other faith people's feelings? And further more, according to my kid, almost one hour is being spent daily for prayer purposes. If this is the case, then what will happen to the productivity?
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written by MasterYoda, July 12, 2008 22:53:47
Nik Aziz,

Praying 5 times a day cannot be forced upon. It is the free will of the Muslim believer.

If this is what you force upon Muslims... what will happen to us non Muslim if you guys were fully in power?? point to ponder...

and just like RPK has said, going through the physical movements such as bending and bowing doesn't make a person better... it just helps with the blood circulation!

change comes from the heart...
And that's why Jesus called the Jewish law teachers, whitewash tombs... meaning clean on the outside but full of deadmen's bones on the inside.

Jesus taught change from within. and that's why a smelly man can be holy and nealty dressed man can be a sinner...

God looks at the heart, not the shell.
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written by DontPlayGod, July 12, 2008 23:20:33
Wow, this blog item has got to be the longest thus far! It must have really got people riled up, me included.

I would like to comment generally, and first on my agenda is that I don't believe God is interested in rhetorics, or praises, and people bowing to him, singing praises, or doing all the rituals in prayer to show submission. I can't imagine a great and almighty God who is so vain that He wants people to bow down 10 times a day and recite praises to Him. The almighty God is above all these praises and rituals to "please" Him, or to show that one is "holy". I don't believe prayers are of any importance to Him, and neither is He so vain as to want people to "praise" Him. How are prayers going to benefity him? Do you think that He is pleased and will give you high marks if you praise Him? Mind you, I am not against praying, as I also pray, albeit in not so ritualistic ways as most "holy" people do.

It is my honest belief that God is above all these(people bowing and praising). I don't think he is that vain. And I don't think He created us just so that He can have His creations bowing down and praising Him. In fact, I think it is a downright insult to God to think that He needs us to "praise" Him.

Even you as a human being and nothing compared to God, do not need other people, e.g. your subordinates,to praise you. In fact, you don't even want your children to sing praises to you! What more of God!! Hence, I don't understand all this insistence on people, worse, forcing others, to pray.

At least, these "enforcers", or God's self-appointed agents, can see that it is a person's choice and something between him and God. To me, doing good deeds, living an honest, virtuous and upright life, loving our fellow beings and giving a helping hand to others in need, will be of more importance than spending your whole praying!
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written by Panca Indera, July 12, 2008 23:40:19
Dear Cabearth
With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you(o Muhammad) the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
Where is in the above mention about Al-hadith being the word of God.
Listened
Do you know how long ie, how many generations was the first hadeeth recorded. Please reflect
1.Abu Hanifah', Nu'man ibn Thabit was born in the city of Kufa (modern day Iraq) in the year 80 A.H (689 A.D) he was the earliest of the four Imams.) 40 years after the last of od the four Imams Ali Ibni Abi Talib.
2.Imam Malik ibn Anas born 93AH was the second inline.
3.Imam Shafie born 150AH
4.Imam Hambal)ahmad bin Muhamad hambal born 164 AH

a.You will notice none of the so called Imams Existed during the Prophet’s time correct?
b.The earliest, Imam Hanafiah started proper scholarship at age 23, i.e 103 AH.
c.All the Information he collected was at best second hand information, at worst third and fourth and fifth hand information that we can say as hearsay, Nowadays correct?
d.At 103 AH even the youngest Companions of the Prophet at the Time of his passing away in 12AH( lets say 14 years was a reasonable age for a boy to remember religious practices) was at least 90 years old if he lived that long.
e.Therefore the hadeeths that these people collected were not from the Sahabas but from tabieens and later generations.

I put it to you , even with your best memory, would you able to recalled what your father or Grandfather did 70 years ago?

I put it to you with the reign of Yazid (May Allah Curse him) of the Muawaiyah dynasty, where the leadership was full of hatred of the Prophet and bani Hashim, Would it not be of his interest to discredit the Prophet and twisted all the truths and mixed with falsehood like what the BN and UMNO is doing now?
Ahem Usuldin: Even the Imams could agree between the sunnah and sources of Hadeeth.

Remember the Quran is the word so of ALLAH. And hadeeths are words of MEN ALLAH is Free from errors and Mistakes , MEN ARE NOT.
So don’t give me the crap about hadeeths being the words of GOD

But wait Panca Indera,
Our QUran is in Arabic so that's why we are not deviated like you.
Oh Abrab is you mother tongue and you understand classical Arabic. Fantastic.
BTW are one of those whose pants of sorong are halfway up your legs when praying.

Note: DONTPLAYGOD.
STAY OUT YOU ARE NOT EVEN QUALIFIED TO COMMENT! smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif
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written by Panca Indera, July 13, 2008 00:30:22
Dear Cabearth ( by they way you a rock FAn?)
Ref: all for MAZAHIB belongs to AHLUS SUNNAH.
These four schools are somewhat different from each other, but Sunni Muslims generally consider them all equally valid.
madhhab is not to be confused with a religious sect.

Yeh1 yeh I’am the stupid one.
Here we go with hair spitting. Madhhab is division into sects.
But what the heck the different Madhabs can go on killing each other just to prove their points.
AND ITS NOT SECTARIAN right?.
No madhhab equals no Killing, NO?
Check you Sunni History. They close the door to Ijtihad saying that they don’t need new rulings. But then when they discovered that they were in the shit, they changed the ruling. The Ijma that is. The Ijma is only by these four groups, nobody is allowed.
They give themselve the authority. So easy when you are in power.
Tell me I’am Lying!
smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/angry.gif
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:25:35
Pancandera
eh1 yeh I’am the stupid one.
Here we go with hair spitting. Madhhab is division into sects.
But what the heck the different Madhabs can go on killing each other just to prove their points.
AND ITS NOT SECTARIAN right?.
No madhhab equals no Killing, NO?


Are u mabuk or just plain dumb? Since when has mazahib led to sectarian killings? Are u just dreaming these things up? or are u just plain dumb?
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:27:31
written by slimbrowser, July 12, 2008 | 20:15:34
Perhaps what muslims need is to pray 50 times a day so that they don't have time even to suicide bomb. That way, everybody would be in peace and the muslims can be assured of a place in heaven without spilling blood.


What about the LTTE? they committed more suicide bombings? How many time d they have to pray?

Or did i tell u that some of the suicide bombers are Christians.

You are plain pathetic and gullible.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:28:42
Dear Cabearth
With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you(o Muhammad) the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
Where is in the above mention about Al-hadith being the word of God.


Alhadeeth is said to be Revelations in 62:02 not the verse u quoted above. Try again.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:31:14

Do you know how long ie, how many generations was the first hadeeth recorded. Please reflect
1.Abu Hanifah', Nu'man ibn Thabit was born in the city of Kufa (modern day Iraq) in the year 80 A.H (689 A.D) he was the earliest of the four Imams.) 40 years after the last of od the four Imams Ali Ibni Abi Talib.
2.Imam Malik ibn Anas born 93AH was the second inline.
3.Imam Shafie born 150AH
4.Imam Hambal)ahmad bin Muhamad hambal born 164 AH



EKKKK wrong again. Al Hadeeth is recorded during the life of the prophet SAW. Refer to the works of Muhammad Muhammad Al Azami entitled "Early Literature of Islam".


If u refer to Nadia Abbot, u will find out that the "tashih" process was done upon materials that is already familiar with all the Muslim Ummah.

This is the effect of people interpreting Islam based on mere English Quran.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:32:50
Nor Aza says

Cabearth,

You’re really plain stupid and a hypocrite! Look at yourself in the mirror; pathetic! Just because you pray five times; you think you can self-elect yourself as God-warriors?! I don’t think there exist any religion that says “ oh, human beings, be fearful of me; then you’re my good SERVANTS AND SLAVES!”. WHAT A JOKE! By the way, I hope to suggest to the ignorant so-called holy leader who assumes he OWN Kelantan there, to start forcing all the men and boys into Taleban robes, use kereta lembu, live in haystack…. and so on, since you hypoctite idiots HATE MODERNITY AND WESTERNIZATION so much? I wonder if this so-called holy leader will listen to such suggestion; but he should if he’s a just and fair leader! Isn’t that called for in Islam?

Noor Aza Othman,
Feminist-liberal Malay woman!



At least we don't advocate infanticide and call it abortion. We also don't promote lesbianism like Feminisim do.

And here's the biggest bombshell of them all, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN GENDER DISCRIMINATION, EVER.

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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:34:10

written by kavidibaku, July 12, 2008 | 22:48:34
Religioun is very very private. It should not be forced in any manner. For example a school in Selangor forces its muslim students to perform prayers at school. During this prayer period, all teaching is stopped totally. the muslim students take their own sweet time to pray.


That's not true with Islam because Islam is a comprehensive way of life, not a private religous beliefs.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 01:49:29
written by nana tanjung, July 12, 2008 | 22:25:22
akhi Rahman, that is exactly why I asked what is Raja Petra's point here? What is he trying to drive by lumping all those unrelevant story together.

Alas we got the same 'ol crap from the same myopic people without discussing the real issues.


That's why i suspect there is malice
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written by SUV, July 13, 2008 14:06:51
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif @ fft..man,the mightiest of rishis,sages,saints dont say anything at all aginst islam..vivekanada and sri aurobindo pulak cikap the body/ concrete force of islam is needed to rebuild society...so fft,u must be an ejen of death metal .. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif...
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written by SUV, July 13, 2008 14:11:39
this is something new i found out..THE MOTHER is very very important in the holy quran..yes,the mother is the supreme,higher then the 7th langit

"And the paradise is under the feet of your mothers."
- Prophet Muhammad (saw)

so many things need to be rediscovered tapi manimal asyik dok bising bising macm anjing gila..typical human beings..4ever in luv wit chaos,trouble,
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written by teohism, July 13, 2008 15:59:44
Israel bad, Israel bad, Isarael bad... Hate Jews, hate jews, hate jews... USA is bad, USA is bad, USA is bad... Martyrdom means paradise, martyrdom means paradise, martyrdom means paradise...

Pray 5 times, pray 5 times, pray 5 times...

Malay Muslim Bumiputera have ALL the rights, Malay have ALL the rights, Malay have ALL the rights...

Repeat this 5 times, repeat this 5 times, repeat this 5 times...

Indoctrination - Definition: cause to believe something: to teach somebody a belief, doctrine, or ideology thoroughly and systematically, especially with the goal of discouraging independent thought or the acceptance of other opinions

The Virginia Tech massacre.

All those poor people in South Korea—praying and grieving and apologizing as if it had been their fault; as if they had been responsible…And the Korean-Americans…praying, grieving for the victims…and the South Korean President expressing his condolences four times! Four times! It wasn’t South Korea’s fault! It wasn’t the Korean-Americans’ fault! The kid was a nut! He could have been an Irishman, an Eskimo—he could have been anybody! Gosh!

After 9/11 — Muslims dancing in the streets in Palestine, in Egypt, in Iran, all over the world, some of them right in the United States!

Really, something is fundamentally wrong. Muslims, find out what your 'enemies' are saying about you.

http://www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1757
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written by teohism, July 13, 2008 16:23:44
Killing should be a crime regardless of what faith. Is yours advocating otherwise? Your rational and reason - Is it based on proper information?

Whether politics or wars - BE WELL INFORMED!

At least, let us ALL settle our difference in Malaysia first-lah!
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written by alhadee, July 13, 2008 18:38:57
cabearth

I thought there is a dispute, the State thinks the church is built on State's land illegally. That's all?


What land dispute? What State's land?

The church was build on the Orang Asli Reserves land.

Part of the church was built on the village head's orchard.

What land dispute?

http://www.gospel2poor.org/pho...letter.JPG

U have a crystal ball.


And so do you, cabearth.

No rules are perfect but at least they lead to somewhere

Oh yes it will lead somewhere. It will lead to praying for promotion and for fear of getting sacked.

That is somewhere for you.

Maybe you should refer to the 5 times/day praying Ustadz Halim Abd Rahman, the corrupted ex Deputy MB of Kelantan and who is now one of PAS Central Committee member. And Nik Aziz let him go off without him getting any punishment for it. Nik Aziz is an accessory to crime, in which it is a crime by itself.

That is where praying will lead you to.
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written by alhadee, July 13, 2008 18:40:18
The issue of Orang Asli in Kelantan.

First Nik Aziz try very hard to bribe any Muslims to marry and convert the orang Asli.

http://www.harakahdaily.net/in...&Itemid=55

But when no one takes up the offer for the Orang Asli in Kampung Jias.

This is what happens to the church in Kpg Jias

http://www.gospel2poor.org/photos-Jias/Pic-07.JPG


First he persuade them.

When they refuse, feel the wrath of Islam Supremacy!
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written by Debbie, July 13, 2008 19:49:44
Dear Nor Aza,
Let these two men argue amongst themselves,(cabearth and (sorry )PI) but they have just proven themselves not to be true muslims by arguing abt Islamic rules and regulations going by their own books.

All in the name of Allah. So which one should I now follow.....which true book?

Or should I just be what God wants me to be...just ME doing good unto my brethren?

Shalom
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written by FFT, July 13, 2008 20:09:10
From TheReligionOfPeace.com



In 2007 Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.
Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10
countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 20:21:15
FFT/Taco Head,

More of your biased notion on Islam. When Israel kills innocent Palestinians, it's never considered to be terrorism, when US bullets kills people who goes to wedding in Afghanistan, it's never terrorism, when British bombs kills women and children it's never terrorism.

FFT/Taco Head, get this tru your thick mentally unbalanced skull



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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 20:22:06
It's a picture of Israeli bombs being signed by Israeli children to be used for killing innocent women and children in lebanon and Palestine.
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 20:31:43
Because Taco Head so desperate to get approval from his western masters, he turned himself into an idiot.

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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 20:33:51
Nor Aza,

Something for you

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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 20:45:20
Another one for the bodoh FFT/Taco Head. This is a picture of 10yr old Ezzat H. The Israeli didn't terrorize him, as Taco Head would like us to believe.

They just pull out his teeth to extract information about a missing handgun

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written by FFT, July 13, 2008 21:15:28
Cabearth,

That's a nice lovely picture of Israeli children signing off on the missiles used to punish the obstinate and violent Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims for their constant barrage of terrorist acts against Israel.

I wouldn't expect those kids to do any different. They are being patriots after withstanding volley after volley of Hamas and Hizbullshitlah rockets fired at them.

And the Palestinian vermin..oops, I mean stone-throwing kid...tied to the front of the truck? That is a shining example of the brilliant, non-violent strategy by the IDF to prevent other Palestinian vermin from pelting them with stones.

Muslims on the other hand, start their nonsense from young, including blowing shit up:

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written by FFT, July 13, 2008 21:21:12
Cabearth,

Look closely. That alleged picture of a mother and baby is actually a stage prop or a mannequin, staged by Arabs and the conspiring and cooperative elements within the media. You want more evidence of stage-props and fakery coming out of Arab reporters on the scene in iddle East hotspots? Look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2...troversies
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 21:22:27
FFT what about this:



Here's a picture of Babies having their head blown off because they are Muslims by Israeli soldiers

I guess this is not act of terrorism as well, huh???
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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 21:27:49
Taco Head says



And the Palestinian vermin..oops, I mean stone-throwing kid...tied to the front of the truck? That is a shining example of the brilliant, non-violent strategy by the IDF to prevent other Palestinian vermin from pelting them with stones.

Muslims on the other hand, start their nonsense from young, including blowing shit up:



Correct me if i'm wrong Taco Head but when you see your families being killed in cold blood, don't u want to fight back?

Oh wait. fighting back is an act of terrorism, according to Taco Head's definition.

THe indiscriminate killings done by the West upon the Palestinins isn't. So, when Palestinians fight back the only way they can, Uncle Tom dick-sucker like Taco Head/FFT says it's an act of terrorism.

Your sense of justice is as pale as your ability to tell right from wrong. That's what happens when u become an uncle tom for too long.

Your head is filled with shit, Taco Head. And try telling that to the this child who just witnessed his mom being shot in cold blood by Isreali bullets


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written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 21:29:06
Woii Taco Head/FFT bahlol,

What have u got to say about Mohd Yunus winning Nobel Prize in 2006? Why so quiet?

Cat got your tounge?
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written by Noor Aza, July 13, 2008 21:40:19
Debbie, Shalom to you too (now I bet Cabearth idiot will call me an Israeli spy!); and thanks for the moral support. And FFT, keep up your good and brilliant work!

Cabearth, you’re indeed a racist, sadist and fascist fool! What a joke you’re to Islamic and non-Islamic civilization and rational beings! It amazes me that Muslims like you don’t feel a thing deep in your heart and soul when innocent human beings get murdered barbarically by COWARD Muslims (like in Sept. 11 or from Islamic fanatics suicide-bombings in Pakistan, Israel, Afghanistan, Bali, Iraq (in mosques even) or wherever, regardless whether the victims are Muslims or non-Muslims. What kind of Islam do you actually believe in that God supposedly says “kill innocent human beings in order to defend your religion!”. You’ve one sick psychopath mind like the Stone-Age Talebans/Al-Qaeda Nazis! They are definitely the new Nazis of the 21st. century!
Another stupid joke of yours is your posting of the western lady cleaning the toilet, was before she discovered the greatness of feminism! Now we demand we get paid for it! You don’t have clue what feminism means don’t you? ONE LAST WORD, AS A HUMAN BEING WHO TRIES TO LEARN TO BE KIND, I JUST LOVE MY GAY AND LESBIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS! HOW’S THAT CABEARTH MORON?!

Noor Aza Othman,
LIBERAL-FEMINIST MALAY WOMAN!
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written by FFT, July 13, 2008 21:42:56
written by cabearth, July 13, 2008 | 21:40:38
Taco Head/FFT u are a classic bastard. U are not human. You were born from the womb of a pig.


Oink!
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written by Frankfurtguy, July 13, 2008 22:41:17
but........RPK, i think regular praying will bring some good results
Praying will remind us about GOD is our master and we shall not offend HIM
Perhaps praying will help some, although not all
I think Nik Aziz has his point there
BUT for those already one foot in hell, this will not help at all
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written by Panca Indera, July 13, 2008 22:49:11
Dear cabearth

Now let’s dissect your statement. “Well if go by the Quran, the Al Hadeeth is the word of God (62:02) (I'jj go on the others when i have time Inshallah)

Many verses of the Quran states that it is a CLEAR GUIDANCE and the Prophet is the best example, and we are to obey the Prophet and Follow the clear Guidance that’s been given to him.

In other word, we as Muslim is not to follow anybody or anything else if the sources are not from the Quran and the Prophets, i.e. including the the four Sunnis Scholars. If we do, we are disobeying God’s direct Orders.
Reference:
1.16.64] And We have not revealed to you (Muhammad) the Book except that you may make clear to them that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.
2.[4.59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end
Note: Authority from among you here definitely meant not Hanafi, Hambal,Shafie, or Malik because they are not among us. They are DEAD. The authority among us refer to someone that is alive NOW! The Quran is true for all time and if we say the statement is incorrect or not applicable then we are disbelievers, right?

Now read verse 3.7: He(Allah) it is Who has revealed the Book to you;
1.some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book,
2.and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation.
3. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and
4. those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

God clearly said with purpose, that some sentences have very clear cut meaning and no double meaning or hidden meaning, right?

Other sentences in the Quran are allegorical (figurative, symbolizing,), meaning God on purpose made the meaning general or vague , so that man will use his Intelligent and knowledge of his environment (desert, tropical, north pole, Moon etc,etc) to adapt the requirement to his needs as not to burden him.

So when the Sunnis Imams give their own interpretations, based on their own information and knowledge i.e Alhadeeth based on the Tabeens and not from first hand reports as all are according to so and so who reported hearing so and so said so and so and vouched by
cont....
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written by Panca Indera, July 13, 2008 22:51:19
cont...
so and so who so and so was a truthful person and verified another so and so, the so called chains could be all based on lies or mistakes or forced confessions.
There is iron clad, 100% proof that the all the Al hadeeths are true.

Remember the story about the jews asking the Prophet Moses what kind and Colour of the calf to be slaughtered when the initial request was a simple “a cow”. When Allah simplify an order or command why do men try to change or make it complicated?

As for the verse [16.44] With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you (Muhammad) the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.

The verse clearly said The prophet has made it clear to men at that time. At that time people were able to read and write. The prophet made it a point to free his POWs if they teach a number of Muslims to read and write.

It is a recorded fact that the first or second Caliph forbid the recording or keeping of records of what were said or done by the Prophet. If Allah wanted us to know to have those notes, He would not let it happened, but He did, as proof that men are free to conduct or act in any manner he so chooses(Free will).

So Allah gives us Intelligence to read, question and reflect on HIS truth not on men’s truths.

So who is the Idiot to conclude that the Al hadeeth are the words of GOD.

note: There is no need to paste the pictures on this blogs as we are aware and can find them ourselves.
smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif
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written by Panca Indera, July 13, 2008 22:52:30
Typo error
There is NO iron clad, 100% proof that the all the Al hadeeths are true.
brgds
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written by Panca Indera, July 13, 2008 23:20:07
Cabearth,
You are my Muslim brother and as the Quran demands we should respect and assist each other regardless of our differences.
So please do not take me as your Enemy. I reacted the way you reacted. Now we should stop and instead united and fight the common enemy, the mischief makers
Do jnot let Satan and his friends deceive and trick us.
Peace, brother. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by teohism, July 14, 2008 12:46:20
Betul cakap SUV, tetapi tanpa 'halangan/larangan' boring-lah. Imagine, ALL of us with the same mentality, religion, hobby... if everyone like to 'screw' and nobody likes 'to be screwed'...??? That's why FREE WILL' is a basic human right.

(Dear P.I.) Muslims unite! Christians unite! Only Buddhist (and others) will find PEACE, within...

There's so much contradictions within each faith becos of interpretations.

Teohism for today - You KNOW the tree by the FRUIT it bears...

Some comments borrowed from 'Islam Revisited' e-book by one M. Ali (ex-Muslim) that seems to explain why Muslims are confused (and as confused) WITH the Christians.

Here goes:
Contrary to the Muslim claim that the Koran is perfect and free from contradiction, the Koran is not only a bundle of contradictions, but a volume of confusion. The following examples prove the point:
"Those who believe [in the Quran], and those who follow the Jewish [Scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians, any one who believe in God and the last day, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 2:62).

Now, read a counter 'revelation' in Sura Imran:
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam [Submission to
God] he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritual
good" (Sura 3:85)

The Koran rightly condemns hypocrisy (Sura 4:138; 9:64-6smilies/cool.gif and teaches that hypocrites will occupy the lowest part of Hell fire, (Sura 4:145). Yet Allah commands Muhammad to compel men to Islam at the point of the sword , i.e., in a Jihad (see Sura 47:4; 2:191; 4:74-77) while elsewhere stating that there should be no compulsion in religion (Sura 2:256). These statements cannot be logically reconciled. To condemn religious coercion while making Jihad incumbent on Muslims is surely hypocritical and an obvious contradiction. END

Today, I'm a Buddhist
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written by teohism, July 14, 2008 12:52:06
History has shown that ALL followers of various faith can (and have) kill for their faith. NONE makes it a 'compulsion'. Aiyah, no wonder 'lebih' banyak terrorist in that certain faith.
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written by teo siew chin, July 14, 2008 13:50:38
"....certainly not dumbo manusia!!!...."
---------------------

aiyo-yo Suv-san, dont lah wipe us off like dat...we're all we have lah ! smilies/grin.gif

so, do tell, who or what displays all the qualities of tuhan (a politically- correct word smilies/cheesy.gif)
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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 15:50:03
so, do tell, who or what displays all the qualities of tuhan (a politically- correct word smilies/cheesy.gif )

the answer is stone!! smilies/grin.gif..hah,it may appear inert,but its rock solid peacuful,quiet,talak bunyi,immortal,n sexless(supreme qualities)....and the colourful(part ones we love em!!(meaning delima,zamrud,dan geng)...anu brahman!!shintoism oso knows dis.."allah dwells in evrything,is everything"..didnt u know stones r oso sensitive? smilies/grin.gif..
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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 15:55:12
and the colourful(part ones 0..)haiyaa me is the saying colorful batu ones,like zamrud,kristal,delima..semuanya disply brilliant colors..colors r force n energy..they oso theraupatik kan? smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 16:03:58
but unity is the law of the supreme lah!one in all ,all in one..and who says unity means one type only..haiyaah man...infnit varity ,yet the fundemnatl principal behind it is THE ONE..anology..kita pke macam macm wanrn plasticin..kita bikin bush,pak lah,musnag macam macm objek..but the mold is still the plastisin..its THE ONE that is everything,in every shape n color,in evry behavior oso..we march frm lesser truth 2 the highest truth..in d process manimal oso expands in his shape,color n desin..speaking of colours,chootia manusia is so fookin dull compared to flowers n and other beings..
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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 16:08:22
In Ko-Shinto everything has a soul, nature itself has it. One must respect the spirit of the universe and worship nature itself in all its expressions. One should also worship Life in oneself as the expression of Nature. One of the main ways of life in Ko-Shinto is to live in harmony with Nature and all its beings and manifestations which include also the spiritual beings that we cannot see and who inhabit trees, mountains, rivers and other things. Death is simply to become a spirit, to just change form. Unusual characteristics in a tree, a rock, a waterfall, certain animals, and outstanding people are taken as an indication of a powerful Kamui (or Shiji in the Ryukyu).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko-shinto_(Jomon-jin)

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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 16:17:55
Observation of Nature & Quran
The knowledge of divine law relating to the external universe is derived from a close observation of nature, scientific experiments and discoveries, but not in the case of laws relating to human life and the regulation of its conduct which are communicated only through Revelation to the Messengers and conveyed by them as Messenger of God to mankind. It is this wherein Islam as a din also distinguishes itself from the Material concept of life which takes no cognizance of the Divine Guidance by means of revelation.

God did not merely create the universe, but has also laid down definite laws comprising it. The Law of Cause and Effect, and the Law of Uniformity in Nature, among others, being of basic importance, deal with the external nature of the universe. He has, besides, prescribed definite laws regulating human life and its activities. That is why the Quran speaks of those who study nature and try to discover the laws that govern it as men of knowledge and insight; because, says the Quran: The signs of His power and wisdom are spread out in the heavens and on earth, but only people who have conviction in the truthfulness of His Laws can perceive them - Quran chapter 45 verse 3-

In seeking knowledge, the believers are spurred on by their belief. His signs are not only in the outer universe but also in your own creation as well as that of other living beings who are istributed everywhere. But these signs are only for those who believe in the truthfulness of His Laws - Quran chapter 45 verse 4-. They know that; And in the rotation of night and day; in rain that comes down from the clouds and gives new life to dead land; and winds that change irection as per fixed timings. In all these there are signs showing truthfulness of the Divine Laws; but only for those who use their intellect and reason - Quran chapter 45 verse 5-

In this way faith in God does not follow from purely logical arguments; it springs from the direct experience of order, harmony,and beauty in nature. Along with that the Messenger has told: The Almighty , Whose Laws successfully function in outer universe, has also revealed for human society the Divine Code which is based on absolute truth.If they do not have Eiman in the Divine Laws revealed to you, even after pondering over His signs which are distributed throughout the universe, then O Messenger, ask them what other lore will they believe in -Quran chapter 45 verse 6-

http://www.parvez-video.com/quran_observation.asp


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written by SUV, July 14, 2008 16:21:42
http://www.parvez-video.com/in.../index.asp
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written by Debbie, July 14, 2008 16:54:18
SUV,
you so funny lah..ok ,, now I have to pay so much money to go and touch the big black stone to ask for forgiveness.......

I think i should ask for forgiveness for even say my morning prayers in the toilet.. I was led to believe that god is everywhere.

Holy crap. smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by teo siew chin, July 14, 2008 16:56:51
STONE???!!!!
hmmm Suv-san is a tree-hugger smilies/grin.gif
man, i sooooo cannot reconcile you with black-metal music smilies/cheesy.gif
it seems 'un-natural' for a tree-hugger to appreciate black-metal... man, the noise will give the trees a heart-attack!
how does that fit into your equation?
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written by DontPlayGod, July 14, 2008 18:39:10
Panca Indera wrote:

"Note: DONTPLAYGOD.
STAY OUT YOU ARE NOT EVEN QUALIFIED TO COMMENT! "

Not qualified, am I. That means you are qualified! Who qualified you, and what makes you think you are qualified? To me all religious fanatics like you are not only not qualified(BTW, none of us are for not matter) but are just rubbish to be dumped into the rubbish heap!

Very sad, but this is where our nation's religious fanatics of the 'superior' religion should go.
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written by OilMan, July 14, 2008 18:47:00
I can see that the number of comments for this issue is at the highhest of 180 comments. This shows just how sensitive the issue of religion is. I have high respect for the other religions and beliefs and hoped that it is the same for others. We should stop this "debate" on religion. We all know that the issue of religion has been used by our leaders to be at the upper hand in politics. I do not want to hate other religious beliefs because I do not want others to hate my religion too. So, let us continue with our respect to one another's beliefs.
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written by sydput, July 15, 2008 09:54:41
5 Pillars Myth

In today's version of Islam, we hear that the religion has been built upon 5-Pillars which, if upheld, grant the person a very high chance of his/her succeeding in this worldly life and entering paradise...

The 5-Pillars are described as follows:

Witnessing there is no god but GOD, and that Mohammed is His messenger;

The daily Prayer/Salat - 5-times per day;

The obligatory charity (zakat) amounting to 2.5% per annum;

Fasting the month of Ramadhan;

Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once.
Although the above has now been taught to over 1-billion people worldwide as being 'Islam'...What perhaps may become obvious to readers of this site is that GOD Has provided mankind with a SYSTEM (***** for 'What is Religion?') and not a set of rituals...

In this page we will present the 'true' pillars that all Muslims will unite around, as well as presenting select articles which will show different understanding of today's pillars.


The 'true' pillars of Islam

"Abraham was a nation, humble to GOD, a monotheist; he was not of those who set-up partners. Thankful to what provisions he was provided; He selected him, and guided him to a Straight Path. And We have given him good in this world, and in the hereafter he is one of the upright. Then We inspired you: 'follow the creed of Abraham, monotheism; he was not from those who set-up partners." (16:120-123)

Monotheism (the path of the One GOD) is directly related to the 'Straight Path':

"Say: 'my Lord has guided me to a Straight Path, an upright religion, the creed of Abraham, monotheism; he was not from those who set-up partners'. " (6:161)



The Straight Path

Here now is the LAW which all Submitters are to uphold and honor:

"Say: 'come let me recite to you what your Lord Has forbade for you:

that you should not set-up anything with Him.

And be kind to your parents;

and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them;

and do not come near evil, what is openly of it, or secretly;

and do not kill the soul which GOD Has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend'.

'And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reached his maturity;

and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear.

And if you speak then be just even if against a relative;

and with pledges made to GOD you shall observe. This He Has enjoined you that you may remember'.

And this is *My path, a Straight One, so you shall follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous." (6:151-153)

*Please note that this is the SAME Straight Path that was revealed not only to Abraham, but to Moses and his people (the exception being the Sabbath which was made as a punishment for some of the Children of Israel 16:124).

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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 11:24:42
teo san,
i hug everything hehe.. smilies/grin.gif...

debbie aah,why u wanna hug black stone? smilies/wink.gif
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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 11:28:01
god every waat..can there b more then 1 supreme reality?...actually in modern times who were the fellas to recognise that matter is oso "godly"? smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 11:28:55
god not just everywhere,but is watt aah..? smilies/grin.gif
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written by teo siew chin, July 15, 2008 11:47:45
Suv-san, God is us? smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by DontPlayGod, July 15, 2008 12:01:07
Thank you sydput for espousing the 5 pillars of Islam. If these are the 5 pillars to observe to gain entry to heaven, then Islam must be the easiest religion to follow to ensure entry to heaven!

However, my 5 pillars are as follows,(mind you, personal, not religious) which to me is of paramount importance to evolve spiritually.

1. Do not do unto others as you would not have others do unto you. (This rule carries the most marks.)

2. Do not tell lies about others behind their backs, i.e. do not smear others' characters without any proof or base, or discredit others just to get him into trouble or to benefit you.

3. Respect your elders based on their good characters, not merely just on their age alone.

4. Help others where help is needed, irrrespective of race or religion.

5. Always be kind, good-mannered, fair, and honest to people, and love them as you would your children.

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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 13:44:40
Suv-san, God is us? smilies/cheesy.gif
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

****** se is powered by linux..wats powering u?
smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 13:59:37
Pustagam:The Life Divine
Pengarang:Maharishi Sri Aurobindo
Topic:The Origin of falsehood and Evil

.....Religion brings in her sanctions;there is a word or law of God that enjoins righteousness even though Nature permits or stimulates it's opposite-or perhaps Truth and righteousness are themselves God and there is no other Divinity.But behind all this practical or rational enforcement of the human ethical instinct,there is a feeling that there is something deeper:all these standards are either too narrow and rigid or complex and confused,uncertain, subject to alteration by a mental or a vital change or evolution;yet it is felt that there is a deeper abiding truth and something within us that can have the intuition of that truth,-in other words,that the real sanction is inward,spritual(kerohanian) and psychic.The traditional account of this inner witness is conscience,a power of perception in us half mental,half intuitive;but this is something superficial,constructed,unreliable;there is certainly within us ,though less easyly active,more masked by surface elements,a deeper spritual sence,the soul's discernment,an inborn light within our nature.....
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written by SUV, July 15, 2008 14:46:30
debbie gone silent..perhaps the toilet bown not warm enuff? smilies/cheesy.gif

me suddenly reliased apa tu black stone.. mmmm..well,there r many persamaan between kaabah n the matrimandir @ auroville..tenggok aeriel view of kaabah when pilgrims mengellingi kaabah n auroville..n there is oso a stone in matrimandir..a kristal ball actually supported by a frame dat represents the 4 powers of the supreme..kaabah is a perfect square representing all the 4 powers of the supreme..dis time u olang investigate!!
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written by teo siew chin, July 15, 2008 15:05:31
"...half mental,half intuitive..."
--------------------

i personally do not believe in intuition.
it's all in the mind, of which the ordinary person utilises only about ...10 per cent? of it's full capacity.
there are of course mental exercises that supposedly trigger more functions of the human brain....but methinks by the time all functions are fully operational it's time for us to go! smilies/grin.gif
or is it the reverse? smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by teo siew chin, July 15, 2008 15:16:08
BTW, whether it is a black stone or a white angel, tell me which religion/faith does not have symbols of it's belief?
Symbols/idols are tangibles - we touch it, we feel it, we see it.
Isn't it enough that God be only in our mind?
oops but of course, we are only half-mental smilies/tongue.gif
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written by johnT, July 18, 2008 00:27:49
Permintaan Umno supaya "Yang di-Pertuan Agong campurtangan bagi menangani penghakisan hak-hak keistimewaan bumiputera" [Utusan Malaysia, 8 Julai 2008]adalah tidak perlu kerana Kaum bukan melayu tidak pernah menghakis hak hak keistemewaan orang melayu, Cuma UMNO yang gagal memperbaiki taraf ekonomi orang Melayu setelah 50 tahun Neraga kita merdeka.

Yang saya sedih dan kesal adalah apabila kaum bukan melayu mempertikaikan hak hak mereka, UMNO akan menuduh mereka sebagai anti melayu, menuduh mereka cuba mengugat hak orang melayu,perkauman dan sebagainya, Saya sebagai orang bukan melayu ingin menjelaskan dan menegaskan bahawanya mempertikaikan hak hak bukan melayu bukanlah bermaksud anti melayu, perkauman atau cuba menghakis hak hak orang melayu.Hak Hak Orang melayu memang sudahpun termaktub dalam perlembagaan Malaysia yang turut dipersetujui oleh orang bukan melayu.

Mesej saya sebagai orang bukan melayu kepada orang Melayu ialah saya mengakui dan menghormati hak hak istimewa orang melayu, Yang di pertikaikan ialah kerajaan yang memerintah sekarang bukan sahaja mengabaikan orang melayu miskin,tetapi hak hak asasi orang bukan melayu semakin terhakis dan ini bertentangan dengan Perlembagaan Negara.

Inilah tembok penghalang yang berusia 50 tahun yang perlu dipecahkan oleh pihak pembangkang jikalau mereka mahu ke Putrajaya.
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written by SUV, July 18, 2008 14:28:06
u do not believe in intuition n ar anything "above",becouse u have not felt it n not seen it..yes..the action frm the above can been seen!!its as clear as i bla bla bla here!!n its so silent smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, July 18, 2008 14:31:48
god is only in your mind?r u serius?even western pundits have recognised something called "emotional intelligence"..and the whole being of ours is just governed by the mind only? smilies/cheesy.gif..dats the problem with asians..we folo discarded model of the mat sarreh..just 2 be "hip" smilies/wink.gif
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written by SUV, July 18, 2008 14:49:43
i do not wish 2 b harsh lah..but man...we have been folowing blindly narrow way of sayin,n doin things..we dont have the habit of doing serius searching..we want simplistic answers..but situation demands us 2 look into things more deeply..if we dont ,then we shall think our present way of doing things is oredi perfect,our presnt truths n finding r absolute,our everything has reached perfection.. smilies/tongue.gif
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written by SUV, July 18, 2008 15:09:59
now,i ask u teo san..wats the brain,the heart,what do they represent..and action ,movement in our cells,the beatings of the heart,do they depend on our "brain mind" or it's ruled by the mind of some other type bacuse it's teh action of organs is quite independent of our mind?and frm where u got this figure 10% mental capacity?einstein?hehe..who taught puak serangga orginisation,management?peter drucker?by observing the serangga alone,the beauty n perfection of sarnag labah labah,we can see the presence of the 4 supreme powers(wisdom,power,harmony/beauty,perfection0 in everythin n everywhere..f*ke up manusia go to kuil,mosque,church,toh peh kong,but still lacks the sponatnous sincerity of a plant's aspiration towards the divine..
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written by SUV, July 19, 2008 11:51:12
Life divine/origin of falsehood n evil/sri aurobindo

...for much more than the mind or life which can turn either to good or to evil,it is the soul personality,the psychic being which insists on the distinction,though in a larger sense than the mere moral difference.it is the soul in us which turns always towards truth,good,and beauty,because it is by these things that it itself grows in stature,the rest,their opposites are a necessary part of the experince,but have to be outgrown in the spritual increase of the being.the fundamental psychic entity in us has the delight of life and all experince as part of the progressive manifestation of the spirit,but the very principle of its delight of life is to gather out of all contacts and happenings their secret divine sense and essence,a divine use and purpose so that by experince our mind and life may grow out of the inconscience towards a supreme consciousness,out of the divisions of the ignorance towards an integralising consciousness and knowledge.it is there for that and it pursues from life to life its ever increasing upward tendency and insistence;the growth of the soul is a growth out of darkness into light,out of falsehood into truth,out of suffering into its own supreme and universal ananda(delight/bliss).the soul's perception of good and evil may not concide with the minds artificial standards,but it has a deeper sense,a sure discrimination of what points to the higher light and what points away from it.it is true that as the inferior light is below good and evil,so the superior spritual ligth is beyond good and evil....
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written by SUV, July 19, 2008 13:52:10
In order to know man Islam takes three distinct levels into consideration;

Jism (body, physique),
Nafs (personality, character), and
Rooh (soul, spirit).

Namely, in one of the philosophical outlooks of Islam, man is composed of three parts; Jism, the physique which is of material substance and we deal with it in physiology and biology. Thus our bodies are known to various systems and as far as these scientific areas are concerned Islam has no disagreement with anyone.

Nafs: Nafs in man is the totality of sentiments, tendencies, desires, wishes, experiences, and our heredity characteristics; in short, it is man's personality.

What creates a difference between one man and another is Nafs rather than Rooh. It is man's Rooh which transform and evolves.

Rooh: Based upon the Qur'anic verse; "They ask thee concerning the spirit (of inspiration). Say The spirit cometh by command of my Lord: of Knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)." (Holy Qur'an 17:85) This verse teaches us that the spirit is an 'Amr' i.e. the work of Allah. In other words, it is a created thing, not self-existent. The Holy Qur'an does not go beyond telling us that. It does not tell us the nature of the spirit. However, just like our ignorance of the nature of electricity or magnetism does not prevent us from taking full advantage of these wonders of creation, we can advance ourselves spiritually by taking full advantage of the functions of the spirit.

Rooh is something which descends to man from God and we interpret it as our 'inside Prophet' namely, it is a representative from the Lord inside Insan. And this what is interpreted as 'Gabriel' in the case of the Prophet as was the Holy Spirit in Jesus (pbuh). It is the relationship of God with man that appears under various names in different Prophets. This spirit is clean and innocent and it cannot err. Rooh never appears in plural form in the Holy Qur'an (although common men have pluralized it; 'Arwah') since it is a single reality. So there is no difference between your soul and my soul, the two of them 'is' a reality like the sun which radiates its, light upon all men. While the plural of Nafs is Anfos (or Nafus). And when and entire group of people get killed we say; "Their Nafus died rather than their Arwah," since the latter, being God's manifestation, cannot be killed. Where man develops the capability, aptitude, and the worth to discover Rooh, he will be aided by the latter. And when a disease attacks and the body and Nafs loose their natural balance Rooh falls into disuse and cannot establish relationship with man.

http://www.ezsoftech.com/Akram/nafs.asp

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written by SUV, July 19, 2008 13:59:45
What is Rooh?


The dictionaries of classical Arabic give various meanings of the word ‘Rooh’, including: Breath of life; soul; spirit; the vital principle (i.e. A hypothetical force to which the functions and qualities peculiar to living things are sometimes ascribed); inspiration; Revelation; essence; the Quran; joy and happiness; Mercy; Life-giving words of Allah; Prophet’s Divine Message (because of its life giving qualities); Angel; Arch-angel Gabriel.

In the Holy Quran, the word Rooh has also been used in different meanings. Please see the following references:

Rooh as Allah’s Revelation [16:2, 17:85, 40:15, 42:52]

Allah sent His Rooh (i.e. His Angel) to Mary who appeared to her in the form of a person [19:17]

Allah breathed in a chaste lady (Mary) of His Rooh [21:91, 66:12]

Alrroohu al-ameen (who brought down the Revelation) [26:193]

Roohi alqudus, (who brought down the Revelation and strengthened Jesus) [2:87, 2:253, 5:110, 16:102]

Allah strengthens the believers with Rooh from Him [58:22]

The Universal forces (Malaika) and the Divine Energy (Ar-Rooh) ascend unto Him in a Day the measure of which is fifty thousand years [70:4]

Ar-Rooh wa al-Malaika [78:38]

Al-Malaika wa ar-Rooh [97:4]

Jesus, as a Rooh from Allah [4:171]

Allah breathed into man of His Rooh. Before the Rooh was breathed into man, he has been addressed in third person (as ‘he’). After having breathed in the Rooh, man has been addressed in second person (as ‘you’) [32:9].

Allah said to Malaika to bow down to Adam When He would breathe into him of His Rooh [15:29, 38:72]. Now the question is what is this ‘Rooh’ that was breathed into man?

First of all, let us distinguish ‘Life’ from ‘Rooh’. ‘Life’ is the energy which makes various parts of living beings work and function. As long as there is ‘life’ (i.e. energy), various parts or a part of a living being can work or function. As soon as a living being exhausts or loses all of its energy (i.e. life) [like the power of a battery], all of its parts cease to work or function and that living being is dead. So death is the absence of (manifestation of) energy in a being without which it cannot work or function. As far as this ‘life’ or energy is concerned, all living beings have got it as long as they are ‘alive’. All animals and plants have got life, as long as there is any manifestation of life (i.e. energy) in them. Rooh, as it is referred to in 15:29, 38:72 and 32:9, is different from life. This (Rooh) is something because of which Malaika bowed down to Adam. Except man, there is only One Being, Allah, to whom Malaika bow down [16:49]. This suggests that Rooh is the essence (of Divine Attributes), which when breathed into man made him worthy of obeisance by Malaika. This ‘Rooh’ is like a ‘software’; you can see or experience its manifestation but you cannot touch or feel it like the body (i.e. the hardware).



09-07-2005



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written by teo siew chin, July 22, 2008 10:48:26
Dear Suv

(1) Do not worry about being 'harsh' - do wat u gotta to hammer in what we need to know, what we need to realise. We can take the heat smilies/grin.gif.

(2) just cos i got no nuts dont mean i'm mamby pampy smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

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written by SUV, July 24, 2008 12:04:27
teo san,
never say u got no nuts..hehe..aiyahh..we r all being hammered..n boy i sure know wat hammering is.. smilies/sad.gif

psst,fyi,due to inflasi,mamby pampy kinky barbie bizniz oso down.. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by teo siew chin, July 24, 2008 12:57:12
hhahahahah SUV - how you know kinky barbie bizniz down ah...GOTCHA naughty naughty smilies/grin.gif

it is from hammering that a piece of iron gets molded to perfection - so TAKE IT LIKE A MAN lah! smilies/wink.gif
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written by SUV, July 24, 2008 22:29:14
aaiyahh teo san,kinky barbie service centers hotels in my taman all tutup lampu le..lil bizniz.. smilies/grin.gif...aah,without hammering,people no wake up!!!they r blessings in disguise..wanna taste some? smilies/grin.gif
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written by teo siew chin, July 25, 2008 09:24:55
yo Suv, we hijak dis article anymore..the Big Guy's gonna hammer U & ME lah!

but do carry on with your 'revelations' that supplement Big Guy's exposes & whackings very well smilies/grin.gif. thank you for the sharing!
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