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When religions talk PDF Print
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Friday, 13 June 2008 11:05

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Religious leaders, scholars and business people are meeting all over the world to argue about free speech and Islamic sensibilities. How much does this achieve?

The Economist 

DEBATES about Islam and the West can throw up unexpected tensions. Take the American and the Brit, successful young professionals who met recently at a seaside resort in Egypt. As it happens, both were devout Muslims who pray five times a day. But as they discovered, manifest piety, of the sort ubiquitous in poorer bits of Egypt, arouses instant suspicion in parts of the country where rich tourists and important Westerners need cocooning—even when those Westerners have come to attend the august deliberations on “Islam and the West” taking place nearby with the blessing of Egypt's government.

The young men's daily supplications were snooped on aggressively by the police and they found themselves longing for the freedom to bow down before God that is taken for granted in California and the English Midlands. Inter-faith encounters, it seems, are tricky enough when they take the form of careful speeches by heads of government and other movers and shakers; for ordinary people who simply want to say their prayers, things can be downright baffling.

That doesn't, and shouldn't, stop faiths from trying to talk to each other. Since Osama bin Laden launched the war he describes as the renewal of an ancient conflict between Islam and the “Crusaders and Jews”, there have been many initiatives to head off global confrontations involving religions and the cultures they have spawned. Al-Qaeda's war on the West is by no means the only religious or pseudo-religious dispute in the world. In India, militant Hindus are at odds with other faiths. Sri Lanka's Buddhist monks often support the battle with Tamil separatists. In Northern Ireland and the Balkans, conflict has raged ostensibly between different forms of Christianity.

Recently, however, most of the high-profile efforts to stave off “civilisational” war by talking about it have focused on Islam and the West—without ever answering the question of whether it is useful to treat Islam as a single block, or of whether the West is best defined as Christian, Judaeo-Christian or secular. Perhaps al-Qaeda's proclamation of a civilisational war has been, in part, self-fulfilling: millions of Muslims regard their faith as being in a state of confrontation, along many fronts, with the West. Some Westerners, including prominent and influential ones, return the compliment.

Gabfests galore

Lots to talk about, then. Plenty of people, from theology professors to international-relations wonks, perpetually available to provide services as talkers. And no shortage of business leaders and politicians with an interest in avoiding a complete breakdown in relations between Islam and the West who are the natural supporters of “inter-faith” initiatives. They are often to be found in wealthy and pro-Western Muslim lands such as Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, and Malaysia.

One such effort is the “Council of 100 Leaders”, an eclectic group of bishops, rabbis, imams, professors and others established as an adjunct to the World Economic Forum, a Swiss-based organisation. After the attacks of September 11th 2001, it became clear that the forum's stated purposed of “improving the state of the world” would be difficult to achieve without some acknowledgement that religion mattered.

Another effort to bring Islam and the West closer is the “Alliance of Civilisations”, established in 2005 under the United Nations at the urging of Spain and Turkey. Yet another is the Cordoba Initiative (named after the multi-faith world of medieval Andalucia), chaired by Imam Feisal Rauf of New York, a well-connected figure in American Islam. That body and the Malaysian government co-managed a conference on the Muslim world and the West in Kuala Lumpur this week.

All these organisations deal as much with geopolitics and public policy as they do with religion. But there is purely theological dialogue, too. One of the most sophisticated, so far, is the “Common Word”, a letter sent last October to Christian leaders by 138 Muslim scholars.

On a note of gentle provocation, it asked whether the commandments of Jesus to love God and one another could be a basis for conversation between the two largest monotheistic faiths. That initiative was started by the royal house of Jordan, a dynasty that traces its descent to Muhammad yet enjoys close ties to the West. Jordan's royals have also been busy trying to reconcile different branches of Islam, bringing together Sunni and Shia scholars and nudging them to acknowledge one another as fellow Muslims (and hence isolate the ultra-militant types who dismiss as “infidels” any co-religionists with ideas more emollient than their own).

This month, the Saudi royal family also waded into the field, rather to the surprise of Muslim intellectuals in other parts of the world who are exasperated by the narrowness of Saudi theology and embarrassed by the kingdom's total intolerance of other religions. Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah summoned to Mecca some 500 Sunni and Shia scholars for an intra-Muslim debate which was billed as a prelude to a broader discussion between Christians, Muslims and Jews (which will presumably not take place in Mecca, since non-Muslims may not go there).

Almost all such gatherings (and the recent ones in Malaysia and Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt were no exception) reach the noble conclusion that relations between the world's major faiths, and the countries where they predominate, should not be poisoned by “stereotypes” or “misperceptions” or “prejudice”—and that more effort to combat these dangers should be made in schools, universities, the media and everywhere else. Speakers intone that religious figures might usefully work together on everything from business ethics to global warming.

Elephants in the room

And at almost all these gatherings, there are some huge subjects that participants either do or don't mention, depending on the location, sponsors and audience. One is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which hovers in the atmosphere of every discussion involving Jews and Muslims, even when they are ostensibly comparing notes about Abraham, Noah and Moses.

Another is the rise within the Muslim world of various forms of what Olivier Roy, a French scholar, calls “neo-fundamentalism” (often ascribed to a mixture of Egyptian zeal and Saudi petrodollars) which are crowding out local, more compromising readings of Islam in places ranging from the Balkans to south Asia. And of course, lurking in everyone's mind is the question of how much influence reasonable men of the faith have on their unreasonable brothers.

As well as repeating certain familiar commonplaces and negotiating certain familiar taboos, participants in inter-faith gatherings do sometimes run into real questions, that make a difference to the world at large. One such is how, if at all, freedom of speech can be reconciled with the Muslim demand for a ban on public statements or cultural products that offend Islamic sensibilities. At this week's meeting in Malaysia, that question was addressed in a way that frightened the relatively few participants whose understanding of civil rights was rooted in a Western, liberal world-view.

Speaker after speaker called for some formal, internationally agreed restriction on the defamation of religion. “I can never accept that freedom of speech is morally right when it offends my faith,” said Prince Turki al-Faisal, a senior Saudi official (and former head of his country's intelligence service). Several participants said there should be a legal regime to uphold an article in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (a UN treaty that came into force in 1976) which states that “any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.”

Put like that, the proposition sounds reasonable. But it can easily turn into a censor's charter. In Britain, for example, a new law outlawing “religious hatred” would have made it impossible—at least in its early version—to express strong disagreement with the tenets of any faith. Western civil libertarians are extremely nervous of any national law, let alone international regime, that formally restricts free speech on religious matters.

Fuelling all such discussion is the unavoidable fact that in an age of instant communications, offences to Muslim sensitivity, such as the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad published in a Danish newspaper, can easily trigger a global chain reaction, causing everything from murderous riots in Pakistan to a collapse of European exports to Muslim countries. Adding further to the tension—and an element of this week's debates in Kuala Lumpur—is the increasingly well-co-ordinated campaign by the Organisation of the Islamic Conference to redefine human rights in a way that explicitly outlaws the defamation of religion.

But in the midst of a tetchy discussion, one voice did defend the Western understanding of democracy and civil liberty, and indeed the compatibility of those principles with the devout practice of Islam. It came not from any of the government officials present (including those from Britain, France, Spain and Australia) but from a young Dutch Muslim lawyer.

Fatma v Fitna

Famile Fatma Arslan explained to a roomful of mostly male dignitaries that there might be better ways of defending Islam in the West than trying to impose in Western countries the curbs on free speech that exist in most Muslim lands. She described how she and her friends used the avenues offered by Dutch democracy to express their objections to an anti-Muslim film, “Fitna”, made recently by a member of parliament, Geert Wilders.

Through sermons in every Dutch mosque, plus public meetings and educational events, she reported it was emphasised again and again that democracy gave people the chance to argue in favour of Islam, as well as against it. People were urged not to play into the hands of anti-Muslim extremists by reacting in a violent or intemperate way. And in part because of these efforts, the sort of Christian-Muslim violence that has erupted several times in recent Dutch history was avoided.

“It's a great time to be a European Muslim,” insisted Ms Arslan, who was born in Diyarbakir in eastern Turkey but clearly relishes everything that her adopted homeland has given her: the freedom to cover her head and to pray wherever and in whatever way her conscience impels her, with no interference from the police. If there is a problem between Islam and the West, people like her are surely part of the answer.

 

Comments (31)Add Comment
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written by cwy, June 13, 2008 11:24:51
Respect others before you ask respect from others!
It is unavoidable to see an increse in number of entity in the world!
In terms of thermodynamics, the law of entropy says that there is ever an increase in disorder.
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written by Rainforest, June 13, 2008 11:29:44
Religion is personal and it should be left as that. The trouble with muslim is that evrything they do, they say it's for Islam. The war in the middle east, twin towers attack, demonstration against the Danish cartoon, all these make the world retreat and feel that muslims are fanatic people, very sensitive about anything to do with their religion and they can be generally violent people in the name of Islam. The more sensitive you portrait yourself, the worst it gets. You can make fun of any other religion in the world, people would just laugh at it and forget about the whole episode because generally people believe religion is a private and personal matter. Many muslim are good people, friendly, helpful and very non-violent, but because of the act of the minority, the whole group are stereotype. I think we should all be more tolerant like in the good old days and talk things over rather than resort to violent and the world will be a better place to live in. There will always be good and bad people believing in every religion in the world because we are all human with our short comings. The best part is the three main religion in the world, Islam, Judaism, Christianity all believe they come from ADAM AND EVE!!! Unless we have different ADAM and EVE, we all share the same fore PARENTS, don't we?
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written by sampalee, June 13, 2008 11:51:23
The Truth tell us there is only oneness and to live in seperation is going against the truth.Our enemies and freinds are to be treated as ONEself.All diachotomy will lead to misery.
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written by SUV, June 13, 2008 12:03:42
when religios tok..
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i fall asleep....human mammal has twsted n turned religion in2 falshood...end of stori
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written by Tom n Jerry, June 13, 2008 12:23:07
Religion is only a word which is only a concept!It means different things to different people!However being very spiritual myself I find religion very amusing in the present world!Today more people in the west are turning to spiritual insteadof religious!That is the basic trend and I think they are moving in the right direction!Our present globalised world needs something which is unifying instead of dividing!We cant be having several *gods* to start of with!I studied various religions for 28 solid years and found that each school of thought has got its origins embedded in their cultural background! smilies/cool.gif
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written by teo siew chin, June 13, 2008 12:25:42
SUV-san ah, maybe religion was meant to align back nature with man but got mis-aligned instead?
aiya, giv up lah. everyting man touches, sure destroy.
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written by SamBall, June 13, 2008 12:38:32
Betul, SUV & teo siew chin,

especially if you mix religion with race, language, cultural superiority or some other shit = cause of strife, trouble and wars

Man's greed knows no bound; and he will use whatever tools at his mercy.

Oh well, that's life...
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written by truthbespoken, June 13, 2008 13:05:56
Religion is one of the most, if not the most, potent force in dividing the people of the world. More often than not, perhaps, it is always misused by a few people or groups of people to control and manipulate the masses for the own feel of power and benefit.

On the local front, the trouble nowadays is that we are spending too much precious time on religion, religion and religion! Coupled with corruption, corruption and too much corruption, I foresee that the country is on a one way street down south unless prudent measures are taken to arrest its sharp decline....
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written by anniyan, June 13, 2008 13:21:28
In this material world its hard to respect one another. Everyone must first understand to respect one religion ! Humanitarian Religion. Respect each other regardless of color, status and identity. Stop torture and killing ! We are only going to live in this world for a short period, during this short time why dont we learn to respect everyone without any boundary ?

Personal Quote:
"No one can satisfy each an other, but all can satisfy to respect one an other"
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written by menowok, June 13, 2008 13:43:23
Religion is very sensitive matter. So its better leave it to individual. It should be personal. But if someone voice out about religion, means its "tok kok". So, anyone who knows religion, pls dun come and tok kok. You want to talk, go back to your religion group and talk. Because its very sensitive. You sure say you're right, and other say they are right. The reason there's problem in the world is because religion people start to talk and impose their ideology on others. Religion is not root of evil. The root of evil is when religious people start to open their mouth.
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written by noblepath, June 13, 2008 13:54:32
Religions are bunch of theories - you can never proof God/Satan exists, rather have faith in their existence.
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written by 98PercentPrimate, June 13, 2008 14:10:30
“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. “ Voltaire


With our current state of humanity, I agree that free speech on religious issues or whatever should be balanced with sensitivity of the masses. At the same time, we must strive towards the ‘absolute’ free speech of Voltaire, by reducing the sensitivity of the masses to speeches.

Speeches and words are just the normal sound or visual effects on the senses. they not physical violence. Even with spoken threats, there is no need to be sensitive, instead one should be calm and take the appropriate evasive or legal actions.

I admit that I have been and is still sensitive to speeches directed or related to myself to some degrees. However I am aware that I have been reducing my degrees of sensitivity and reactions to various speeches. I am striving to modulate this sensitivity to a minimal because I am now more aware that it is quite stupid to allow my emotional feelings to be at the mercy of the speeches and words of others. Humans are capable of changing their sensitiveness to ‘sensitive’ speeches, just as anger can be managed via anger management programs.

The common advice ‘to change others, one must change oneself first’ is most appropriate in terms of sensitiveness to free speech.

Interfaith talkers can continue with their symptomatic-based blah, blah, blah, etc. but they will not be successful unless they incorporate the subject of finding and understanding the root causes of the sensitivity in religious issues and take proactive actions to reduce the degrees of sensitivity of their followers.

The proximate cause of sensitivity to religious issues is due to the primordial fear of death which generates very intense psychological pains to the followers. All religions and their followers must first acknowledge this inherent psychological effect in themselves which cause them to be sensitive. They should not blame others for their being sensitive and be aware that it is stupid to react to merely written words, images or speeches.

The snapping of the catch-22 is that when religious followers understand the underlying psychological effects of their religious pursuits, they will not doing anything negative to invoke others to create acts that would be regarded as ‘sensitive’ to themselves.
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written by wargasetia, June 13, 2008 14:28:21
it seems that religion is a centre of arguments, debates and so and so.
so, why do you need religion if u all keep on fighting?
dont u think that without religion u wont fight like this and that?
so...
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written by Milo, June 13, 2008 15:19:46
One of the big problem with dogmatic religions is that anything they do not understand, they just conviniently say 'It's God's will!' or 'God Did IT' Such a pronounment does not make it a theory. ITS A CONCLUSION!(without due process).

Get some science education here: Youtube Evolution -VS- Creationism DEBATE (1-smilies/cool.gif

Starting with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT3NZTGCtrI&feature=related
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written by Garend, June 13, 2008 16:22:47
Actually a lot of time.. IT HAS TOTALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. IT IS Human's 7 SIN "Anger (Wrath), Lust, Greed, Sloth, Glutton, Pride, Envy"

1) It all start with the most major downfall of Human PRIDE. We are too prideful to know our position in the universe, claiming that we are it's master. We fail to truly acknowledge God as who He is; but rather define Him to who we want Him to be. In fact, a lot of ppl don't even believe in God. (Those that say "Saya Pantang Dicabar & those that claim they are the last Malay Hero .. wow.. Big Ego)

2) Next to the line is Sloth. We are lazy to carried out the works as required by the religion. To do good works and to do the right things. (What else can I say.. sleeping in official preceding)

3 & 4) Glutton & Lust come next, that we rather indulge in our own sinful nature can continue to sink deeper in our glutton & lust (Hey.. refer to the the party man.. everyone knows he like to party & have a lot of flings)

5) Greed come next, due to the lost & sinful nature of man, he choose to continue wallowing in the sinful nature and crave & craze for more.. (That explain all the corruption & money lost and those nice cars and building they have... Hey.. so old already still can have a beautiful wife)

6) Envy the come along, because of the greed, glutony & Lust, they are envious of those that is doing better.. so they resort to a lot of Envy.. (Hey.. who don't want that piece of pie.. )

7) Anger (Wrath) - due to all that envy, it is no wonder they get so angry... until they are willing to cut the nose to spite the face.. (Hey ask that Rich MAN that is willing to get out of the Party he created and willing to speak all sort of profanity against it..)

SO you see.. it has nothing to do with religion.. it is all human's fault..
Now the ppl are just using the religion as an excuse to garner support and as a tool to propagate their political agenda.
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written by ohuat, June 13, 2008 17:11:59
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL UPON EVERYONE TO BUYCOTT NOT VISTING MAHATHIR'S BLOG. WHY BOTHER LISTENING TO MORE LIES.
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written by cruzeiro, June 13, 2008 18:22:51
Most likely, it'll end up being a "Dragon in my Garage" Debate ....

"The Dragon In My Garage"
http://cruzinthots.********.co...arage.html
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written by Noor Aza, June 13, 2008 23:15:42
Religion should not be political. It's an aspect of cultural tradition that has to do with personal enlightenment and self-discovery. And culture is based on living daily experiences; so it's not static but dynamic. Why the world is in chaos; is because religion especially Islam has been politicized and embedded in rigid institutional dogmas! My whole life, living under Islamic oppression is enough. Every religion supposedly guides you towards high moral ethics that include kindness, tolerance and humanity.
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written by kavidibaku, June 14, 2008 09:23:34
BAGI ENGKAU AGAMA MU BAGI AKU AGAMA KU. ITU JE HABIS CERITA. TAK DE SUPER AGAMA MACAM SESETENGAH CLAIM. YOU RESPECT I AND I RESPECT YOU.
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written by OrdinaryMan, June 14, 2008 13:51:20
"When religions talk" = "Much Ado About Nothing" (William Shakespeare).

If there is really a caring god let him show himself and end all strife.
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written by Limang, June 14, 2008 19:01:06
One reason why I feel Islam is always view as a threat and danger in any religious discussion is that the violence and antagonism Muslims display each time their religion is wrongly portrayed, and the disrespect for other religious beliefs when they are in power. Instead of soul-searching to improve the situation as to why people have such stereotyped views and seek to educate, they alway put the blame on others, like the West, anti-Islamic forces, Muslim enemies, Jews, unbelievers, etc. and then call for jihad, revenge, murder, killings, destruction, etc. NO OTHER RELIGIONS OR FOLLOWERS DO THAT EVEN IF THEIR RELIGION IS ATTACKED!

I used to be able to sit with my fellow Muslim friends and have a healthy discussion in the past, but today, the same act would cause me bodily injury BY THE VERY PEOPLE I CONSIDER MY BROTHERS! I have no problem whatsoever in discussing issues with any other people about their relgion - we can have such open and friendly debate and even laughed about each other's ignorance BUT I CAN'T DO THE SAME WITH MUSLIMS WITHOUT FEARING THEY WOULD KILL ME FOR TRYING TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH!

Also the way Islam is being practised in Malaysia gives me fear and dread as to the future of other communities other than Muslims! I see no hope.

I am preparing my children all to migrate, that's the truth. I am not prepared for them to live under an oppressive, intolerant and corrupted Islamic government that gives lip-service and wonderful rhetoric when in reality, it is a trap and deception to control and suppress us.

Woe to the non-Muslims in Malaysia. My advice: Flee or prepare to flee!

I have some glimmer of hope if PR comes to power but I doubt it as long as it is still a Muslim majority. Sad, isn't it, when I have relatives who are Muslims too and they do not see the injustice done to others of different faiths!

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written by BobbyNZ, June 17, 2008 19:17:05
Food for thought; a good friend told me that the day will come when the nations will sit at UN and agree unanimously to get rid of of all religions smilies/shocked.gif
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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:09:12
Food for thought; a good friend told me that the day will come when the nations will sit at UN and agree unanimously to get rid of of all religions
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ooo,that will b great!!! smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:11:24
actually aah..the most violent r the orthodox rabbis n zionists..dats d problem with semitic religion..2 much fear,curses..things like dat...
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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:15:48
469. This is how God in His love teaches the child soul and the weakling, taking them step by step and withholding the vision of His ultimate and yet unattainable mountaintops. And have we not all some weakness ? Are we not all in His sight but as little children ? sri aurobindo

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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:24:54
414. The Jew invented the God-fearing man; India the God-knower and God-lover.

415. The servant of God was born in Judaea, but he came to maturity among the Arabs. India's joy is in the servant-lover.

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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:32:08
Discipleship to God the Teacher, sonship to God the Father, tenderness of God the Mother, clasp of the hand of the divine Friend, laughter and sport with our Comrade and boy Playfellow, blissful servitude to God the Master, rapturous love of our divine Paramour, these are the seven beatitudes of life in the human body. Canst thou unite all these in a single supreme and rainbow-hued relation ? Then hast thou no need of any heaven and thou exceedest the emancipation of the Adwaitin.
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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:53:08
http://www.beautifulislam.net/...d_love.htm
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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 14:54:33
487. If there are things that absolutely refuse to be transformed or remedied into God's more perfect image, they may be destroyed with tenderness in the heart, but ruthlessness in the smiting. But make sure first that God has given thee thy sword and thy mission.





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written by SUV, June 18, 2008 21:33:59
smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif @ limang...i m afraid u have to leave dis earth...there is no safe place for u here..specel beings like u should,well..live in outer space or seriusly consider going to another planet..roswell? smilies/grin.gif
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