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Substance over rhetoric PDF Print
Saturday, 05 January 2008 12:03

I don’t think we can look at so-called religions for the answer. And with respect to the Muslims, we have to reject most of what we have been told as the rules and regulations have been handed down by dictators and rulers with their own agenda.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

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Most of you may have had trouble accessing our site the whole day yesterday. That was because we were hit by massive DDOS attacks which practically rendered our site inaccessible to all. We were trying the whole day to block the attacks and at the same time trying to trace the source of the attacks which came from a Singapore data-centre. The previous attacks, which closed us down for about six to seven hours a day, almost the entire week, came from Europe.

I am beginning to suspect that some very unhappy people are trying to put us out of business. Rest assured, however, we have put in some new hardware with a completely new database system around Christmas last year to pre-empt further attacks. I know many of you do not like this new layout but it is necessary in the interest of security. We are still working around the clock to strengthen our security system and we hope the frequent interruptions will soon be a thing of the past.

Now, onto the next subject, the current controversy surrounding the use of the word 'Allah'. On Wednesday, Malaysia's Cabinet ruled that those not of the Muslim faith are prohibited from using the word 'Allah' in reference to God. This is to avoid 'confusion”, whatever that means. I can only assume this is to avoid Muslims from thinking that Muslims and non-Muslims share the same God or that we all pray to the same God. Or maybe it is to prevent Muslims from praying to the 'wrong' God, the God of the non-Muslims. (And I was led to believe that there is only one God who made all of us).

In Passion of the Christ that starred Mel Gibson, 'Jesus' was shown as speaking Aramaic and he used the Aramaic word 'Alla' to address God. Allah, in Arabic, is rooted in the word Ellah, which means a god (any god). The word 'Allah', therefore, simply means 'God', be it in Judaism, Christianity or Islam. 'Allah' was also the word that Arabs during the pre-Islamic period used in reference to God. Therefore it can be said that 'Allah' is a word that all religions share, including those considered pagans, and is not exclusive to Islam, which in the first place 'lifted' the word from others.

Muslims appear to focus more on rhetoric rather than the substance of the religion. This is not only true for Malay Muslims but inflicts Muslims the world over. Take this news item below as an example.

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Row over abortion right for rape victims in Egypt

By Ramadan Al Sherbini, Correspondent

Cairo (1 Jan 2008): With an estimated 20,000 cases of rape annually, some Egyptian lawmakers are pushing for giving rape victims the right to abortion. According to the semi-official newspaper Al Ahram, an MP has presented a draft bill to the parliament demanding an amendment to the Egyptian law to allow pregnant women, who have been raped, to go for abortion. The aim, according to MP Khalil Qouta, is to curb an increasing number of children of unknown parents in Egypt.

Any girl or woman, who is subjected to rape, has the right in Islam to have abortion at anytime, and she would not commit a sin for doing this,” said Egypt’s top Muslim cleric Mohammad Sayed Tantawi. Giving his blessing to the pro-abortion bill, Tantawi, who is the Grand Shaikh of Al Azhar, demanded that women given the right to abortion should have done their best to resist the rapist.

His fatwa (religious edict) has drawn opposition, though. “Endorsing the right to abortion in the cases of rape has several risks,” said Fawzia Abdul Sattar, a professor of criminal law. “In the first place, this bill deals with the aftermath of the crime, but not the crime itself,” she told Gulf News. “Legalising abortion for rape victims may well encourage immoral behaviour on the part of girls involved in illicit affairs, who would manipulate the code and claim they were raped.”

Abdul Sattar also warns that some 'unscrupulous' medical professionals could take advantage of the bill to perform illegal abortion on immoral women. “Rather, we need to promote ethics and religious piety in order to encounter the crime of rape,” she said.

Pro-life supporters like Mohammad Rafaat, a professor of Sharia (Islamic Law), believe that abortion for the raped women should be conducted only in the first days before a foetus forms. “There is a consensus among Muslim scholars that the abortion is not permissible 120 days after the conception occurs.” Rafaat urges the government to set up medical centres to treat victims immediately after they are raped. “This can help remove the effects of rape before the foetus is formed,” he said.

While supporting the right to abortion for raped women, Nehad Abul Qumsan, the chairperson of the Egyptian Centre for Women’s Rights, balks at the suggestion that abortion can be carried out at any time. “Many women give birth to premature babies in the seventh or eighth month after conception. Should they be allowed to have abortion at this time?” she asked. “I think the issue should be resolved from the beginning and abortion restricted to cases when the foetus is not formed,” she said.

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Yes, while 'liberal' Malaysia argues whether non-Muslims should be allowed the use of the word 'Allah' in reference to God, those in 'liberal' Cairo (where drinking liquor is not frowned upon and some smoke during the month of Ramadhan because they consider that smoking does not nullify the fast) are arguing whether abortion for raped women should be allowed in the event 'immoral' women use this 'loophole'.

Yusuf Estes rightly said that he loves Islam but he hates Muslims. Many prominent converts to Islam in fact share his view. And I, who in a way 'converted' to Islam later in life though I was 'officially' born a Muslim, do not differ in this view. Who in heaven's name, you may ask, is this dude Yusuf Estes? Is he someone important or an authority on Islam? Well, let me put to rest any anxiety you may harbour on who this dude is.

Yusuf Estes, PhD., is an American convert to Islam and Chairman of The Muslim Foundation International, an Islamic promotional and missionary organisation dedicated to spreading the message of Islam. He was brought up as a Protestant Christian and was a member of The Disciples of Christ.

From 1962 until 1990, Estes had a varied career as a music minister, preacher, and the owner of the Estes Piano and Organ Company. He was born in 1944 and lived in Texas and Florida. In 1991, Estes 'discovered' Islam and converted to Islam that same year along with his wife, father, and step-mother. He has since pursued Arabic language and Quranic studies in Egypt, Morocco and Turkey.

Estes has been regularly appearing on Peace TV, which is a 24/7 Islamic channel broadcasting to many countries around the globe. Estes' Islamic activities include:

1) Volunteer Imam in a Texas military installation.

2) National U.S Chaplain for the Federal Bureau of Prisons since 1994.

3) Delegate to the United Nations Peace Summit for Religious Leaders in August of 2000.

4) University guest speaker.

5) Television preacher, syndicated television programs on satellite and cable networks.

6) Maintaining Islamic websites.

Estes is also well-known for his website motto which he regularly uses at the end of his speeches and interviews: 'Visit Islamalways.com. We're open 24 hours a day and there's always plenty of free parking'.

Another prominent convert from the West sent me this e-mail which I thought I just have to share it with you. Unfortunately I do not have permission to identify the writer so the person will have to remain anonymous. But rest assured that this is a genuine message from a prominent convert whom I personally know and have met.

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I am writing you today as I have read 'Fruit From A Poisonous Tree Will Be Poisonous' and wanted to give you my take on the matter.

You ask, how can a good religion make people bad?

To answer this question we have to understand what religion is. Religion is man-made. If we look at the early generations of Muslims, the first two Caliphs for instance, we see a pretty just system. But from there it goes downhill. We have Muslim fighting Muslim, rules and regulations implemented based on frail human understanding and often with less than pious motives, and we see Muslims seeking power rather than Imaan.

Islam is no different from Judaism and Christianity in this respect – they have all lost their way as 'religions'. Faith is one of the most powerful motivators – it can lead men to murder, to corruption and to all sorts of horrific acts, and it is often used by tyrants to accomplish these things. But at the core of it is one human trait that we must always struggle to suppress and that is our desire to be better than others.

We all want notoriety and often 'religion' is used as a way of separating us, as making us think we are better than others, that we somehow are the 'chosen' ones. Look at the division within the Muslim Ummah and the fights over who is the 'saved sect'. Is there a man on earth who really knows for sure how to secure a sacred place in the hereafter?

I don’t think we can look at so-called religions for the answer. And with respect to the Muslims, we have to reject most of what we have been told as the rules and regulations have been handed down by dictators and rulers with their own agenda.

Islam has no Pope. As Muslims, our relationship with Allah is direct. Instead, we look to scholars and leaders as if they have some inside track to God. In Pakistan and Egypt, the Muslims kiss the hands of the Sheikhs, throw money at them and elevate their status. While surely we can gain knowledge from learned men, we need to filter out personal motives and validate so-called 'knowledge'.

Travelling the world as I have, I can tell you that Islam in Malaysia and Turkey, for instance, is drastically different. Look at Saudi Arabia as another example. Women there are not allowed to drive. Yet, in Islam, women are equal and are not restricted from working or achieving skills! Many cultural things have found their way into the 'truth'. How can that be when there is only one truth? I conclude that much 'truth' is man-made!

I have great compassion for your current situation having gone through a similar thing myself. The more I understand, the more I reject organised religion. It seems to me that we are focusing on man-made details while totally side-lining the source of faith.

The Quran is a book for all time, as are the other Holy Books. Yet Islam, today, is based more on Hadith and the life of the Prophet (pbuh), Fatwas, Islamic precedence, cultural traditions, etc., than on the Quran. Let’s face it – you can get a Fatwa to justify anything these days. If we find a ruling we don’t like, presto – we find a Sheikh who will endorse it. We really have to make sure that our own arrogance does not cloud our vision, and that is something I am constantly trying to keep in check.

In Malaysia, the situation is more complex as there are religious differences and a hefty amount of racism that magnifies the differences. You have so-called Muslim leaders using their position to condone their own behaviour and condemn those they choose. And they do this in the name of religion. But the obvious question is - where is the justice?

Allah said do not take the Christians and the Jews as (CLOSE) friends. This only makes sense – it’s logical. Ultimately, a different faith will eventually limit those relationships but that does not mean we must abuse Christians and Jews or that all of them are 'evil' – that goes against what Allah tells us in the Quran. Allah tells us to wage war against the OPPRESSORS within His LIMITS and to respect the People of the Book but somehow we let this get twisted by men with personal agendas.

Brother, as a Royal son of Selangor, I think you have your priorities upside down. You have worked tirelessly for your country and I know the country’s problems trouble you a great deal and you put a lot of effort into trying to instigate change. This, no doubt, is also partly expected of you. But you cannot condone bad Muslim behaviour because you are Muslim and you cannot turn a blind eye to Allah’s justice because of your patriotism.

The world map is changing even as we speak and there is no guarantee that Malaysia, as we know it, will even remain. We need to hold onto those things that pass the test of time like divine truth and justice even if it makes us unpopular. Working tirelessly at deciphering truth will reap much greater rewards for mankind and in the hereafter.

I no longer take what other Muslims tell me as truth. I too am at the stage of my life where I see hypocrisy everywhere and, for me, I don’t buy a lot of the interpretations of Islam as they are now presented. I come back to the Quran and the guiding principles and contemplate these at the source. That often puts me at odds with other Muslims but I really think we must each travel our own path to truth. Is this not the purpose of life?

Faith is an individual journey, not a 'religion', and Allah gave us a brain, a conscience and freewill to choose right from wrong. I think we must focus internally before we act externally and we must be cautious that we don’t get caught up in the politics of the day or 'religious' trends that will be long gone tomorrow. Faith is not a coat we put on and instantly we are pious. We must come to know that we know that we know. It's a learning process.

There will never be peace without justice. We need to stand on the side of justice whether that is with the Muslims or non-Muslims, believers or unbelievers. We are so busy sweating the details that we often miss the real truth. We know deep down what is right as long as we let Allah be our guide, and once we are at peace with what is right, we need to act. Knowledge is useless unless we use it. We need to get our eye off men and onto Allah because with Allah we have hope, guidance and mercy and with man, our future is futile.

You are a very blessed individual brother. Allah tests those He loves – often relentlessly. It seems to me you have reached the point that Allah is requiring you to make a choice. Love of your country or love of Him. That does not mean that you will not be able to help your country nor does it mean that you have to stand with the so-called Muslims who are using Islam for their own purposes. Allah is asking you to put Him first. Our requirement is only to submit and leave the outcome to Him and let us never underestimate His capability. He’s got you covered!

That’s my two bits brother.

May Allah help and guide us. Ameen.

Wa salam.

Comments (108)Add Comment
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written by Mr Smith, January 05, 2008 12:21:39
There is a saying that goes something like this: "Pray as though everything depends on God and work as though everything depends on you."
It's like praying to pass an exam and studying for it.
I think RPK is doing just that and rightly so. He is doing his part and believing that God is helping him along his mission.
UMNO thinks it has the monopoly to TRUTH. It has found its version of Islam. The leaders talk as though they are so God-fearing and pious that God has already reserved places for them in heaven.
Ironically, they wallow in a life of sin.
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written by mddanial, January 05, 2008 12:46:15
Dari: http://www.malaysia-today.net/...ew/740/34/
Tahniah, sebantal-bantal tahniah di ucapkan.
Betultu, kadangkadang cara yang betul dan baik, mereka buat bodoh dan pekak badak saja.
Alternatif nya buat cara bodoh untuk orang bodoh .
Satu lagi mari kita korek, korek,korek pekung mereka di http://www.citizenthinktank.co...nwatchdog/

Pak Lah, dahlah tu… jangan malukan keluarga terutama sekali cucu-cucu awak yang belum pandai menikmati kehidupan dunia material lagi dan jangan dengar anak dan menantu awak yang tak sedar diri dan sudah dirasuk kemewahan yang tak abadi!!!! George Benson Boleh!!!
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written by MalaysianIAm, January 05, 2008 13:41:05
sometimes it makes me wonder. are malaysian muslim that stupid (or insecure, whatever you want to call it) that they cannot even distinguish their own God from other religion's God? If their faith is strong enough, and if they know their religion well, nothing can confuse them. But unfortunately it is the blind leading the blind. Actually, it is the blind governing the one eyed jacks who do not care.
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written by anallu, January 05, 2008 13:45:56
Dear YM RPK,

I am a Hindu. I am a follower of that religion because I was born a Hindu. You are a Muslim, because you are born as one. However, the advice given to you by your erudite friend is applicable to the followers of all religions. Religion, in the ultimate is entirely a relationship between the individual and 'his' God. When members of the same religion, whether Muslim, Hindu, Christian, et all join together and discuss or argue about their own or other religions, then religion becomes corrupted as each member in the group only tries to project his 'own' religion!

It is only a very few in any religious group who can discuss religion objectively. The majority in any group get emotional when religion is the subject of discussion. That, in my humble opinion, is the illness of this country. As long as we continue to score our own selfish points disguised as religious principles, we, as a society, will never move forward. It is no wonder that our leaders keep themselves occupied with their own rhetoric than justice for the rakyat! They forget that they are the servants of the rakyat, but act as though they are the masters and have the right to oppress the rakyat with their 'cock eyed' and phoney principles!
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written by tt c, January 05, 2008 13:52:45
Dear RPK

You have written 2 very good articles on the right to use of the word "Allah" by non-muslims. I admire your courage to write from a muslim's perspective, even thu yours is totally opposite that of the Malaysian Government.
I wonder if there is anything the non-muslims and the right-thinking muslims like your goodself can do to change the Government's and UMNO's arrogant and dictatorial stance on this issue? If you can think of something, i am sure many Malaysians would support you.
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written by sampalee, January 05, 2008 14:21:31
Word lend itself to various interpretations by our satanic[discriminating] mind.Our preference results in the wide use of adjectives to satisfy our comparative mind.Thus we have good muslim and bad muslim,true and false muslim,and a host of different greys in between.The fact is,a muslim Follow the teaching of the kitab,and those who refuse to follow or act contary to the teaching out of ignorence are non-muslim.
The taste of water[like Islam] is universal and appear differnt when the purity is laced by the various flavourings[sugar ,salt,coffee,tea,etc.].In distilling,the various drinks[including those considered haram,like wine and liquor]the water essesnce[God's nature]remain unchanged throughout,while its differing appearance changes to urine in our bodies.
Water in a cup take the shape of a cup,and when emptied into a pool become one with the water there.God,s essense appear different with our various type body cups,yet it remain the immutable one,sometimes appearing solid[ice],sometimes liquid and at times even appear unseen[vapour].The oneness of everything[the magical appearence of the ONE essense]is the essential teaching of TAWHID.The same essense[as there is no other]is referred to by different labels under different religions.The langauges used to teach this Truth depend on when and where the sages[orang Tuhan]expounds the truth.We cannot possibly expect Shakyumuni to speak arabic to the Indian during his time,except Pali with mixture of sanskrit.All religions are extablished to preserve and propagate the teaching of this Truth.
Langauge have no monopoly on truth and Truth is Beyond all langauges and even concepts.We and the world are mere reflections on the face of God[Mirror].The refections comes and go on the mirror,the mirror remains unmoved and unchanging.Reflections can appear beautiful or ugly,but in essense it is only the mirrorness that is ONE
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written by wannabepatriotic, January 05, 2008 14:32:01
Distinguish between rules of men & rules of God... Malaysians, stereotypically can't distinguish between these two. This mentality is the result of letting 'others' think on your behalf.

Time to wake up...
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written by tanahairku2, January 05, 2008 14:47:54
They have ruffled the Indians - demolition of Indian temples. They have also ruffled the Chinese-stop work order on the world tallest toaist statue in Sabah. Now they are putting r4estrictions on the Christians -the Herald. What racial harmony are they talking about? What religious tolerance are they talking about? The leaders in umno are the people creating all the racial and religious problems.
Do you still want to vote for them?
And to Raja, you are indeed a very blessed individual. I feel your aches and pain, especially in the knowledge that the so-called umno leaders are twisting their religious beliefs to show that they are in power.
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written by Dogboy, January 05, 2008 15:37:06
This banning of the word Allah to non muslims has just taken one comedic turn after another. What fools the authorities are and the whole world is beginneing to find out what Malaysia is all about. "Malaysia Truly Asia" PHUUI!!
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written by hiro, January 05, 2008 16:06:11
I would be delighted if PAS shows the way by putting Islam where it belongs - in the heart, action and conduct, and not in the mouth, or in forms, or rhetoric... that will go a long way to gaining trust amongst non-Muslim population in Malaysia and give UMNO a real run for their money in the coming elections.
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written by pak laklok, January 05, 2008 16:10:38
Dear annalu,I totally agreed with u.Lets us share one common stand i.e.sent all these UMNO/BN goons to hell.As for fellow friends do try not to comment ones religion,in the end these UMNO/BN goons would take any opportunity to bang our heads together and they will laugh all the way.Why not we stand united and wait this coming elections to see a better and harmony Malaysia.
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written by yvoon, January 05, 2008 16:12:00
i came across an interesting article that is well-written and refers to historical source documents for its discussion. The title of the article is "No one Religion can Monopolize or Copyright the Term ‘Allah’" and the website is:

http://krisispraxis.ath.cx/archives/2007/12/no-one-religion-can-monopolize-or-copyright-the-term-allah/

Readers of Malaysia-Today may find this helpful.
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written by cmoon, January 05, 2008 16:39:13
“There is only one religion; the religion of Love
There is only one language; the language of the Heart
There is only caste; the caste of Humanity
There is only one God, He is Omnipresent."

“Religion is of immense help in fostering the integral development of the human personality. It underlines the unity in diversity. True religion is the attainment of the purity of mind and heart. Every religion has its own precepts and principles. But no religion preaches hatred, untruth or unrighteousness. 'Speak the truth', 'Practice righteousness' enjoin the Upanishads (Indian ancient scriptures). Similar sacred injunctions are to be found in all the other religions too. Thus, all religions emphasize the human values and serve as beacons for the uplift of mankind. They all facilitate the manifestation of the divinity inherent in man.

“Let the different faiths exist, let them flourish; let the glory of God be sung in all languages in a variety of tunes. That should be the ideal. Respect the differences between the faiths and recognize them as valid so far as they do not extinguish the flame of unity,” Baba says.

All religions have emphasized the same truths in their basic teachings, but very few people try to understand the inner significance of religions. Out of a narrow feeling that one's own religion is superior and the other faiths are inferior, members of different religions are developing hatred towards members of other faiths and acting like demons. Such narrow attitude should be given up completely. All should develop the awareness that though Names and Forms may differ, the essential truth is one in all religions.

“The truth proclaimed by all religions is one and the same. All have a common ultimate goal. All religions aim at promoting righteous conduct by transforming the attitude of man, thereby bringing about harmony. The foundation of all religions is morality. Morality is equated with selfless love. Religions were thus instituted to foster the welfare of society through the promotion of love for all beings. All religions advocate their votaries to seek eternal peace or shanthi within oneself. No religion approves the use of violence. Every religion recommends the cultivation of tolerance and respect for other religions, thus paving the way for ahimsa (non-violence).”

“Should each person live the ideals propounded by the founders of his religion, unaffected by greed or hate, the world will be a happy and peaceful habitation for man. In spiritual terms, all of mankind belongs to one and the same class, race, and religion.”

“The followers of each religion call upon the One God who is omnipresent and who listens to their prayers, be they from any race or whatever language they speak; but it is the same God who confers happiness on all of mankind. No religion has a separate God showering grace only on those who profess to abide by that faith.”

The way forward for Malaysians; Love all serve all - for we are children of one God , though we call by different name . god is one!
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written by mikefonz, January 05, 2008 16:50:39
I belive in GOD. There's only one GOD. Other religions have their own believes. I don't condemn them but to respect their religions. In Malaysia, we have many diffirent races, cultures and religions. The bumis in Sabah and Sarawak have more but not everyone of them are muslim. So what do we call them ? I believe many of us have no problems with anyone of any religions. Only a few morons have difficulty in living with the truth and those are 'holier than thou' aka hypocrites.
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written by gtl, January 05, 2008 17:05:18
it is sad at this age, our govt manage the rakyat like kids, we have grown up and aware, to show maturity in govt's thinking is something the country lacks.
when pak lah or najib's speaks, it is mostly without much meat, maybe in the 50's or 60's, it is ok but not now.
our leaders are not taking the rakyat seriously.......
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written by Vineeth Menon, January 05, 2008 17:21:13
A good letter with a person of great realizations .
Knowledge is indispensable Power..Truth is always Bitter.
What is religion?..http://malaysia180degree.********.com/
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written by Uncorruptible, January 05, 2008 17:23:17
The cyber attacks on your website will not end as the bn is panicking with the elections just around the corner. M-T is unlike any other website as a pain in the most vulnerable part of the decadent bn.Hope you win the war. Bless you.
History is a record of people seizing power through religion, repression and controlling the people's minds. Religion has therefore been used as a tool to keep the people docile, in fear and as an issue to divide the people. In this regard, Malaysia is one of history's best example. It is not enough to think of ourselves as Malaysians, and not Malays, Chinese, Indians.... In order not to fall in any trap by the bn, we should also think of ourselves as Malaysians and not also think of ourselves as Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians....
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written by ben932, January 05, 2008 18:38:13
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written by talk3talk4, January 05, 2008 18:49:18
The cyber attacks will only get worst.
After laughing at their face and daring them, SIL would have scowered the world to oursourced UMNO's hack team. From the frequency of these successful attacks, it's likely they are done by outsourced hackers and definitely not those setengah masak.
Hope I'm wrong.
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written by TRANSFORMER, January 05, 2008 18:59:06
The virus attack was not only targeted for this site, but it has crippled our service provider here. This is just a cyber attack! Could it be more coming from across the causeway?
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written by bexe, January 05, 2008 19:09:28
The world is being led by politicians who use religion to gain and maintain power. The saddest part is that Americans are looking for this type of leadership & therefore willing to forgo their civil liberties. Bush took away what was their hard-earned civil rights and one would have thought that they would look for a more liberal Leader but they instead voted for Huckabee - a Baptist preacher!
There is no difference between him and having a radical Ayatollah as a President of any country. We have our own Imam Abdullah.

These politicians issue religious edicts and impose their self-made rules on us ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD or ALLAH (FOR MALAYSIAN MUSLIMS). They are intolerant and practice religious fanaticism
What is this world coming to??
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written by cruzeiro, January 05, 2008 19:22:50
Islam has no Pope. As Muslims, our relationship with Allah is direct.
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Yes - but there are hundreds of "mini-popes" who can issue fatwas.

And of course, there are some "blessed people" have a "more direct" line to God - at least that is the general perception in all "religions" .....
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written by educationist, January 05, 2008 19:51:08
You and your learned friend are Muslim voices of sanity and rationality in the face of the stupidity of the Islamic authorities in the country.
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written by sampalee, January 05, 2008 20:42:27
Just because an arsonist use fire to destroy properties,does not make the fire evil,to be hated and avoided.It is the munafiq malays muslims and not Islam that is at fault.Islam,like all other religions are all about the teaching of the TRUTH.The One Truth that can set us free[there being no other way]
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written by JaguhKampung, January 05, 2008 21:50:48
In the books "How to Win Friends and Influence People"/"How To Stop Worrying and Start Living", written by Dale Carnegie in 1936/1944 (decades before Malaysia's independence), the word 'Allah' was used. In the chapter titled, "Do This and Criticism Can't Hurt You", Dale Carnegie wrote, "... I once asked Eleanor Roosevelt how she handles unjust critism - and Allah knows she had lots of it..." obviously referring to God. Dale Carnegie is a Christian.

I wonder how on earth did our Cabinet got this idea that the word 'Allah' is exclusive to Muslims...
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written by Panca Indera, January 05, 2008 22:51:01
Dear all,
Sampalee wrote, January 05, 2008 | 20:42:27 “Just because an arsonist use fire to destroy properties, does not make the fire evil.” Spot-On!

In Islam there is no sect and Allah is aware of the people who created sects and divide the Muslims into them. I’ll let the Quran Speaks;

[6.159] Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.
[21.93] And they broke their religion (into sects) between them: to Us shall all come back.
[23.53] But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each part rejoicing in that which is with them.
[27.45] And certainly We sent to Samood their brother Salih, saying: Serve Allah; and lo! they became two sects quarrelling with each other.
[72.11] And that some of us are good and others of us are below that: we are sects following different ways:

To the Muslims who have mislead other Muslims because they have little or no Knowledge refer Quran:

[3.66] Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know.
[18.5] They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers; a grievous word it is that comes out of their mouths; they speak nothing but a lie.

So go back to the original Quranic Teaching.
• 4.146] Except those who repent and amend and hold fast to Allah and are sincere in their religion to Allah, these are with the believers, and Allah will grant the believers a mighty reward.
• [4.175] Then as for those who believe in Allah and hold fast by Him, He will cause them to enter into His mercy and grace and guide them to Himself on a right path.

What is the right path?.
[22.54] And that those who have been given the knowledge may know that it is the truth from your Lord, so they may believe in it and their hearts may be lowly before it; and most surely Allah is the Guide of those who believe into a right path.

To the Muslims who look down or condemn other religions please remember this from the Quran;
[2.213] (All) people are a single nation; so Allah raised prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He revealed with them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people in that in which they differed; and none but the very people who were given it differed about it after clear arguments had come to them, revolting among themselves; so Allah has guided by His will those who believe to the truth about which they differed and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right path

There is a good article on the Islam on his link: http://www.surrenderworks.com/....html#top,

Try it MaaSalam.
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written by Roy, January 05, 2008 22:52:26
YM RPK,

Islam is not as complicated as many have thought or made it to be. It never will 'cos it is about the well-being of humankind - physically, spiritually, earthly and beyond.

Muslims (good muslims and bad muslims alike) have made it so complicated and confused. Even worse, a Muslim who is trying to become more Muslim than the rest. He/She will start commenting and finding faults of his/her Muslim brothers/sisters, let alone other people of other religions. No one is right but him/her. No one will go to heaven but him/her. And they'll do anything in the name of "good" Muslim. So be careful with the one who confesses he/she is a good Muslim. Most likey he is the worse among Muslims or a Satan made into being to confuse mankind.

I share your opinion and of your friends too. I am a strong believer in Allah (or God as some prefer to refer it) and Islam. I don't believe most Muslims anyway. They are bunch of hypocrites. In fact, most of illegal sex are done by Muslim girls with "tudung" nowadays. And they are "Muslimer" than others - in their thoughts and that is what perceived by our community.

I pity those kampung folks who are easily conned by this type of Muslims.

And I can't think of any valid reason why some people must go through suicidal acts just to get rid of other good people? Certainy this is not Islam and they are not Muslims - good or bad Muslims. In my opinion, they are merely Satan or devils who disguise as human.

My resolution for 2008 and beyond, I will be a Muslim, neither good nor bad. Moderate. I will not take anyone who confesses he is a good Muslim. I'll take him as what I thought - the devil in disguise.



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written by asiana888, January 05, 2008 22:58:34
This Islam Hadhari government is become more of a joke by the day. How can the Cabinet even dare suggest that 'Allah' is an exclusively a 'patented' word for Malaysian Muslim only?

I am curious to know how many of the Malaysian Cabinet members (supposedly muslim Cabinet members as well) have even read the Quran from cover-to-cover?

Anyway, religion is evil. Faith is a personal journey.

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written by DontPlayGod, January 06, 2008 00:05:05
The point made by the Malaysian Government(read UMNO/PAS) is that religion(read Islam) is used to control a people/race, and the most effective way in controlling and brainwashing a race/people is through emotions, read religion. Hence, UMNO is only too keen to always define Malays as Muslim Malays, otherwise, if that Malay is not a Muslim, then he is not a Malay!!%// How on Earth did UMNO come to such a logic? How did religion get mixed up with race. There are Muslims from many races. How does UMNO explain that? Is it written in stone that Malays must automatically be a Muslim to qualify as a Malay? In Indonesia, there are a sizeable population, who are Christians, and also Hindus. There is no law that says an Indonesian is defined as one who is a Muslim. Don't forget that the Malays here were Hindus for a long time before they converted to Islam. A Muslim Malay friend once asked, "What happened to our ancestors who were Hindus"? Are they all rotting in Hell?

Even in West Asia, there are Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs, and Jewish Arabs. The only logic, is that using religion(and emotions) to control a race/people is very effective, almost in total. Nobody in that country of Muslims will object/oppose(or dare to oppose/object) if a person is sentenced for committing a crime if he is so sentenced under Islam. After all, it is done in the name of God. Who can object to God's laws/verdict? The fact how that verdict and punishment is handed down by man(playing God) escapes that country's citizens thinking processes, beats me!

I have never believed that religion should be used to govern a country(although it is very effective in controlling people). It can easily be abused by the rulers. After all, who appointed them to govern in God's name? Did God/Allah appoint them to govern their country in His name? And look at the state of religion. Nearly every religion is divided into so many sects, each with their own interpretation and rules/laws. Who is to say their interpretations are right? It is for this reason that I have all along been against using religion to govern a country.

Moreover, how accurate or correct is the Koran(or Bible, etc.). Remember the prophet(pbuh) is illiterate and cannot read or write. And the Koran was first written in Aramic, not Arabic, as per the present accepted version. So who translated those scriptures into the Arabic Koran? Was any society/body/group set up to ascertain the accuracy of the translation? And how did the prophet knew what was recorded is according to what he preached?
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written by Wisdom above, January 06, 2008 00:10:07
... " I am writing you today as I have read 'Fruit From A Poisonous Tree Will Be Poisonous' and wanted to give you my take on the matter." ...

.... You ask, how can a good religion make people bad? ......

..... " Allah said 'do not take' the Christians and the Jews as (CLOSE) friends. This only makes sense – it’s logical. " ......

When I read the above, there is simply "no peace of mind ".

1) I notice a condition of negativity , a " Cognitive imbalance ". It is disturbing , project enmity , dissension & strife. It is not harmonious in itself.

2) The good elements of peace, patience, kindness , goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control are
not forthcoming.

Please elaborate more in positive details for " ... and to respect the People of the Book but somehow we let this get twisted by men with personal agendas. "

Remember, events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.

............


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written by ricky, January 06, 2008 00:44:45
According to Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia's definition, Allah means "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa, Yang bersifat dgn [sic] sifat-sifat Yang Maha Sempurna dan Yang mencipta alam ini". I would translate this to mean and I stand corrected) "God Almighty, With Divine Attributes, All Perfect and Creator of This Universe".

Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia (Malaysian Institute of Language and Literature) is the government body responsible for co-ordinating the use of the Malay language in Malaysia. Heck, their definition of Allah makes no reference to, or mention of, the Muslim God!
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written by The dragonheart, January 06, 2008 03:05:30
DontPlayGod,
You wrote: "Moreover, how accurate or correct is the Koran(or Bible, etc.). Remember the prophet(pbuh) is illiterate and cannot read or write. And the Koran was first written in Aramic, not Arabic, as per the present accepted version. So who translated those scriptures into the Arabic Koran? Was any society/body/group set up to ascertain the accuracy of the translation? And how did the prophet knew what was recorded is according to what he preached?"

This is sparkling new to me... can you please tell me where you get this facts from??? The fact that Mohammed PBUH was illiterate is correct.... but you said the present Quran is a translated version? Please explain...
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written by C360, January 06, 2008 09:33:13
We are all united by ONE GOD .. THE GOD OF TRUTH !!
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written by Rohani Hitam, January 06, 2008 12:10:46
Since we are united in our belief that the word Allah is universal, let us show to the government that we meant what we have said.

Immediately we should inform all churches in Malaysia to use the word Allah when describing God.

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written by Rohani Hitam, January 06, 2008 12:41:58
DontPlayGod wrote:

Moreover, how accurate or correct is the Koran(or Bible, etc.). Remember the prophet(pbuh) is illiterate and cannot read or write. And the Koran was first written in Aramic, not Arabic, as per the present accepted version. So who translated those scriptures into the Arabic Koran? Was any society/body/group set up to ascertain the accuracy of the translation? And how did the prophet knew what was recorded is according to what he preached?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you are ignorant, some theological lesson for you.

1. Muhamed followers wrote what he said over a period of time during his prophethood. This "revellation" eventually form the Koran. Mohamed did not pen down "God's" words.

2. Muhamed said it in Arabic and it was also written in Arabic. Araemic was an ancient Jewish language. Jesus was the one who spoke Araemic, his native language. You are definitely very confused in your religious lessons DontPlayGod.

3. The "revellation" by Mohamed was eventually compiled from many sources 30 years after his death. And the content was vetted and varified by people entrusted to do so including the relatives and friends of Mohamed and the Muslim clerics. This is what Koran is today.

4. The Koran is not like the Bible which has many versions. Muslims have only one Koran and the original is in Arabic. There are translations to other language but many use the original Arabic version mainly to preserve the sanctivity.

To add, the only Bible written in Malay is the Indonesian version of the Bahasa Indonesia. It is the only Bible in the world that uses Allah. The Sabahan and Sarawakian Catholics use this Bahasa Indonesian version because it is almost similar to Bahasa Melayu, a language officially spoken by East Malaysians.[
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written by lokenpal, January 06, 2008 15:04:34
The letter from the anonymous person who said > Faith is an individual journey, not a 'religion' is so true; and >> I really think we must each travel our own path to truth.

Enjoyed the letter a great deal. Tks.
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written by ben932, January 06, 2008 18:37:33
I know many of you do not like this new layout but it is necessary ...


NOT all PC resolution set at 1024 x 768[ would display properly..

Please take a look at these:

www.leading.com.my/1024by768S1.JPG smilies/sad.gif
www.leading.com.my/1024by768S2.JPG smilies/sad.gif
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written by Panca Indera, January 06, 2008 21:03:19
Dear All,

There should be no confusion over the issue quote,“Row over abortion right for rape victims in Egypt”
In the Quran :
[23.14] Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. (Note: five stages of development)

To understand the verse above, one will realize that the spirit (SOUL) joints the fetus (after the embryonic form) only after the fourth month of pregnancy. That is the reason, if there is a miscarriage after that period, the fetus must be given the Muslim rite for the Dead.
Before five months (
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written by DontPlayGod, January 06, 2008 21:27:01
Rohani Hitam wrote:

"The "revellation" by Mohamed was eventually compiled from many sources 30 years after his death. And the content was vetted and varified by people entrusted to do so including the relatives and friends of Mohamed and the Muslim clerics. This is what Koran is today."

Firstly, Tuan Rohani, I am not trying to run down any religion, but was trying to join in the overall discussion in an academic manner. Since you call me ignorant, I presume you must have been blessed by the true knowledge of Allah or received some sort of revelations from HIM.

You wrote that the Koran was written and compiled into one book 30 years after the death of Mohammad(pbuh) and from various sources, and you wrote that the various sources were verified. By whom? Who is qualified to verify the scriptures after 30 years. Just because that person(s) are relatives does not give him the right to verify anything. Do you think a professor's son/relative can speak or explain what his professor father lectured accurately? And mind you, it was 30 years after the prophet's death. So who can remember exactly what was preached by the Prophet(pbuh), and explain their meanings? Was there any tape-recording. Did people use shorthand in those days to record words and talks? Did people record/write down what the prophet(pbuh) at the moment and time HE preached? Did people carry writing materials around with them in those days. Or they just wrote from memory long after the talk?

Let me ask frankly. If you were to attend a lecture in a classroom, say a 1 hour lecture, and I ask you to write down what the lecture was about say days or even weeks later, how accurate and how much of that talk can you write down. If you can even write down the lecture you attended on the same day, I would think you would be great if you can even so much as write down 50% of what you heard, accurately. I am sure, Tuan Rohani, you must have attended lectures and talks. Am I right? But for people to discuss and write down as infallible the words of the Prophet(pbuh), and also to claim that they are God's words, after 30 years(after much discussion) must surely be mindboggling to say the least.

My apologies, Tuan Rohani, this is not personal(although you call me ignorant) but please debate on this academically. I am not taking sides in any religion. I call myself a free-thinker and read up spiritual books by even non-mainstream writers/psychics, whose writings interest me greatly. The above also applies to other religions, including Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

But the important thing is to understand the gist or essence of what the prohets or religions are trying to tell us, and also to act according to our conscience.

Good Day, and Assalamulaikum.
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written by ultraman, January 06, 2008 21:33:02
RPK,
You are a true Muslim in everr way. A person who crusaded against injustice, corruption , abuse of power.These are attributes of Islam. But sadly, many misconstrued you as arrogant and not a true Muslims.
After following so many of your articles, which are informative and some times comical, I believe you are trying to change the mindset of those blokes, especially those with power, from 'a holier than thou' mentality to a more tolerant one.
An issue in question is the use of word "Allah". After you have furnished so much proof that "Allah: was used exclusively by Arabs long before Islamic civilisation, these peoplestill cannot accept the fact.
But I believe, God is always be with you. Allah always bless the righteous but woe be upon those who are corrupted but pretend to be pious.
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written by HP, January 06, 2008 21:35:39
Islam is simple and practical but man has turned it into the mess that it is today. It is a sad truth that such a beautiful religion has appeared to be such a monstrous evil. Where it seems fit, Islam is being used as a tool to accomplish earthly missions that benefit the unruly few. Thus, the saying I love Islam but hate the Muslims should put some senses into us. Let us start to ponder whether or not it is worthwhile to follow Islam like how we had in the past.

Islam is personal. Allah gave us brains to think. Allah gave us Al-Quran as a complete reference. If we feel that we are being misled, go back to Al-Quran. Everything is there. There are many real true scholars around if you need clarifications on what you couldn't comprehend thru readings alone.

Back to being personal, if all Muslims could finally follow the original teachings in Islam, then this beautiful religion will never again be frowned upon. Muslims will end up as one big group of successful, harmonious and peaceful people.

This is not at all impossible. We just need to rectify ourselves - on all issues. Then go back to the basic teachings. We don't need to study religion to the extent of qualifying ourselves to become scholars. Just the basic, practice it and we will be fine. Thats it.

Salam...
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written by RumahPanjai, January 07, 2008 02:07:40
Isn't it ironic. Here we have a group of Badawi's muslim majority caucus telling the malay muslims indirectly they there are more than just "allah" the one god. They recognise that that there is the God of muslims and other gods. Therefore isn't it a contradiction of "there are no other gods but allah" So, who then is a champion of malay muslims in Malaysia? smilies/sad.gif
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written by Terminator, January 07, 2008 08:15:48
" I no longer take what other Muslims tell me as truth. I too am at the stage of my life where I see hypocrisy everywhere and, for me, I don’t buy a lot of the interpretations of Islam as they are now presented. I come back to the Quran and the guiding principles and contemplate these at the source. That often puts me at odds with other Muslims but I really think we must each travel our own path to truth. Is this not the purpose of life? "

This is required of all Muslims in Malaysia to progress !!! Then again ... ????
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written by DontPlayGod, January 07, 2008 09:18:16
The dragonheart wrote:

"Forget about your doubt on the accuracy of the Holy Quran, but I want to ask you, Can a professional singer remember the lirics of 200 songs? Ok, lets say we compile 1 million songs today using 1000 professional singers. Do you think at least 100 of the singers can confirm the correctness of the lirics, tune and tempo of each song."

Sorry, I don't agree with you, my friend. Songs and lyrics are a different kettle of fish. Hope you can agree on this. I can still remember some of the lyrics of songs 20 to 30 years ago but not the complete song. But as I wrote a earlier, if you were to attend a lecture or talk, how much can that talk sink into your head. How much can you remember? Even if you were write it down immediately after the talk, I doubt you can record accurately 50% of what the talk is about. Sure you can talk about the talk for a long time, but as time goes on, and with each discussion or comment by the listeners, the story will take on a different line. Get it. And it was said that the Koran was compiled into one book 30 years after the death of Mohammad(pbuh). My, my, I am at a loss for words. And here we have people quoting every word and sentence as if they were spoken by God itself!! And 30 years after the prohet's death, who is there to verify?

Alright, let's not go again into the accuracy of the Koran. Let's assume every word or phrase is accurate(big if), how do you explain the major sects in Islam? The Sunnis, Shiites, Ahmadiyah(spelling?) and many more. I'd like to repeat, let's not be too fanatical about religion(any religion). Take the gist or essence and let us live an honest, sincere life, loving our fellowmen, respecting each and everyone of our human race, and helping others when help is needed. And last, but not least, do not make the mistake of those who claim to be religious, yet believe in special rights, and ketuanan(BTW, are these also approved in the Koran?)
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written by BobSam, January 07, 2008 10:05:24
Rohani Hitam, the various "versions" of the Bible you refer to all say the same thing.
If it wasnt illegal under Malaysian laws, I would ask you to compare 3 or 4 different "versions" as you refer to it. The versions that you refer to are basically written in different English that was the norm during the translation. A lot of time & work is put in to ensure that there is no loss or insertion / deletion from the original.
Eg. John 3:16
The NIV (New International Version) has it written as:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
The NAS (New American Standard Bible) has it written as:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"
The KJV (King James Version) has it as follows:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
New Life Version has it as follows:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son. Whoever puts his trust in God's Son will not be lost but will have life that lasts forever. "

The discerning commentator should check it out themself at www.biblegateway.com if you would want to confirm whether there are many different versions of the Bible or are there different translations where the original terms are not lost but stated in the lingua of the day.

Have a nice & responsible day. God Bless You all. I pray to Allah, that you feel His love and not condemn people like RPK who are trying to reach out to all people as a "Civil member of Society".
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written by cksgary, January 07, 2008 10:18:25
Law is something man made. Even I believe most Religion's Laws are man made.

God gave us a brain. He wanted us to think what is wrong and what is right.
God gave us 2 eyes. He wanted us to see clearly what is wrong and what is right.
God gave us 2 arms and many many others. He wanted us to make things right.

But unfortunately, many of us are using each of God's gift separately. We always think this way but do another. Any God, or maybe "The" God does not want anyone doing the wrong things, such as taking the life of another.

God is Almighty, but if taking one's life or making a "lawful sin" should make me go to heaven and nearer to god, I rather keep this sin and go to hell.
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written by DontPlayGod, January 07, 2008 17:05:58
To The dragonheart,

Thank you again for your kind explanation, but, I was all along trying to point out the uselessness of being fanatical or be an extremist in any religion. It just doesn't bring any benefit or good to anybody, including the fanatic himself/herself. Use our brains, and use our conscience to discern what is right and wrong, if doubts on some issues in religion arise. What happens now is that different sects in a religion are slaughtering the other sects, e.g. in Iran, and N. Ireland, and differenct religions are slaughtering each other, as in Palestine and Israel. This just goes to show that people just do not understand what religion is all about. They are just taking it as if they belong to a club of which they can be proud of.

You say that different sects see the same basic Koran, but, I disagree in one area. If they agree on the basics of the same Koran, why is Al-Qaeda killing thousands of innocent people and destoying properties in the name of God? Why is it that in Taliban Afghanistan, the leaders prohibit their womenfolk from attending schools, and even to go to work? The womenfold in Saudi Arabia and Taliban Afghanistan are required to cover themselve from top to bottom, not even their eyes are visible to people around them. Music and television are banned in Taliban Afghanistan, and the Talibans gave safe refuge to Al-Qaeda after the destruction of the World Trade Centre. Are these minor ways of difference, as you wrote?

To me the differences are so completely vast, that it is like comparing an elephant and an ant. Sorry brother, I hope we can agree to disagree peacefully and in goodwill.

I can never be a fanatic in any religion, whether you ask me to convert to Islam or to Hinduism. As I wrote earlier, why is it that religions are thousands of years old? Why isn't there any religion or any prophets during the last 100 years? Yes, I know, it was said that the Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) is the last in the line prophets sent to Earth, but why? Why doesn't God send down one now to clear up the mess? My simple answer would be that no one will believe Him if he claims to be a prophet. Remember, both the Christians and the Muslims are waiting for the return of Jesus Christ. Would the Christians and the Muslims recognize Jesus and accept HIM when he does come, or would they disagree? What happens then to these two groups of believers?
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written by BobSam, January 07, 2008 18:28:18
Hi DragonHeart, I m sori but Mormonism is not a sect of Christianity. It is stated in the Bible, that there will not be any subsequent "re-writing" of the text or Additional Chapters or Books to be added to the New or Old Testaments. So Mormonism is not Christianity.
The Christian root is The Universal or Catholic church. But from that we have many denominations, like the Roman Catholics, the Anglicans, the Methodists, the Baptists, etc. I know for a non-Christian it might seem confusing and you & DontPlayGod are correct. In different times of our history, Roman Catholics and the Protestants had put each other to death. Similar to what's happening among the Sunni's & Shia.
This is a pity. If only all followers of their own religion will READ their HOLY BOOKS, where God is attributed as a God of Love, why would HE want His followers to kill others. Didnt this GOD create everybody? Or are there several God's like what the Hindu's proclaim, and each of them created their own human beings?

I dont think so, that's why Malaysia is adamant not to acknowledge "Allah" as the creator God, the possibility that "Allah" of the Jews, the Christians, and the Moslems i.e. all Abrahamic religions could be the same "God" but been interpreted differently like how the Christians have their various denominations.
Anyway, please dont give titles of "Prophet" to people, although I admire RPK, and I believe he is guided by Allah to show Allah's people/followers that they have gone the wrong way, RPK is not a Prophet. He is just a light shining in the darkness, asking people to go back to the right way.
"READ UR BOOK".

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written by salakkan, January 07, 2008 18:57:51
Don'tPlayGod,

I have no intention of making light your spiritual discussion. I'm just trying to see the lighter side of things, very serious indeed. We could go on forever about this. And when we wake up, RaSHIT will have pulled another fast one on us.

Personally I think there'll never be any more prophet. The idea is good, but I think God knows it's not gonna work any more! The last prophet broke his big tea pot already. Nobody new wants his "teh-o" anymore. The way some Malays spoke of Mahathir, you'd have thought he is a prophet sent to save the Malays just as there is supposed to be a prophet to save the Jews. There's a problem with Mahathir---he's Indian! The Malays in Malaya still believe, I think, a Malay prophet is coming. The Malays in Borneo just look over the tree tops and foliage around. I hope they don't mistake RPK as their prophet otherwise he might run away from us and go to Gunung Tahan to hide in modesty!

Let's talk human things about social group action and activism. Some of us, like me, are talkers. Others like RPK yaks a lot and does things. There are othrs who do things but are dumb. Still more let all of us yak and yak and will probably watch and when somebody strikes a damn good idea, he collects at the Bank.

I like what BERSIH is doing. And I'll support them in everywhere I am able to---that's talk a lot to my friends and family. I like what PKR are doing. Lately, there are encouraging signs from PAS and that's good. I'm a bit dazzled by this Hindraf thing. I don't like what Idris Jala is doing. When he could, he won't help the orang ulu of Borneo! 200 "adolescent" Penans in Long Lellang starved for two years ago.

Somebody had the power. The Muslims, Christians, Hindus and athests and politheists had the power.

They blew it!
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written by Richard Lo, January 07, 2008 19:51:00
as written by the prominent convert from the west:
"Faith is an individual journey, not a 'religion', and Allah gave us a brain, a conscience and freewill to choose right from wrong. I think we must focus internally before we act externally and we must be cautious that we don’t get caught up in the politics of the day or 'religious' trends that will be long gone tomorrow. Faith is not a coat we put on and instantly we are pious. We must come to know that we know that we know. It's a learning process."

Dear RPK,
I cannot agree more with the writer! A breathe of fresh perspective from a progressive muslim who do not rely on the Hadith to guide him. Since the Quran, according to Islam is a direct word from God, why rely on the interpretation of others. Without studying the Quran by yourself, how is one going to develop a relationship with God.

Great article! Keep up the good work.
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written by The dragonheart, January 07, 2008 22:02:57
DontPlayGod,

The problem here is YOU is not THEM. And they are not you. You don't like people to be fanatic and extreme in religion, and those people maybe don't like happy go lucky man like you who try to generalize people with just a two sen knowledge about others' religions. Maybe those whom you say are fanatic to their religion might say they are not...they might say they are more obedient servant to their God than you.

To me religion does not make a man to be a killer, a terrorist, a power crazy, corrupted etc etc... You don't have to be an Al Qaedah to be a terrorist. People who do not believe in God can be worst terrorist... in the 40s, 50s, 60s... the communist who said religion is the opium of the people once wanted to rule the world... in Indochina they were the Vietcong, in Thailand they were the CPT, in Malaya there were the CPM, etc etc..

When Bush Sr and Bush Jr messed up middleeast states .. support Saddam to kill millions using Chemical weapons towards the Iranian, is he a religious extremist? When USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki are they hero or they are testing their might and show others that they are powerful and big bully? When the Hindus demolished the old mosque in northern India are fighting for their rights? When the Nazis slaughtered millions of the Jews...are they Muslims?

DontPlayGod, I think you are wearing (i don't know what it is called) an eye cover over ur face like a race horse. You only see the track but not who is at your side or back.

If Allah permit me I want to be an extremist Muslim as what is required by Allah and His Prophets. But I condemn terrorism but I support self defence.

DontPlayGod, I will only agree with you if only the Muslims are terrorist in this world...Not the Sri Langkan Tamil Tigers, Not the Zionist, Not the American, Not the Cuban, Not Viet congs, Not the Germans, Not the Balkans and my list can go on and on...

I will never agree to brand any religion to be bad... Its the people who are bad, not the religion... So DontPlayGod, please open up your horse race eye cover and look 360 degrees before you brand a religion to be bad... then look at yourself in the mirror... ask the mirror what have you done to make sure others at living in peace.

As for BobSam for my stupidity and ignorance about Mormonism, I apologized and I am sorry. This is the problem when you don't really know about someone religion and you want to give comments on them... Thousand apologies to all the Christians for my ignorance.I will wash my mouth for that! All this while I thought Mormons are a sect of Christianity.. (This is because I use to watch Donny & Marie Osmond celebration Christmas over TV back in the early 60s with Andy Williams) I was wrong then... Thank You BobSam for educating me.

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written by BobSam, January 07, 2008 23:16:02
DragonHeart, can I ask you a favor?
Do you know that much of the damage in Africa & elsewhere are caused by lines drawn in sand by the British. From Africa to the Middle East, new lines were drawn that joined 2 or 3 different tribes who have never been historically friendly into a nation.
Sometimes they even created a "state" to reward a friend. A lot of people are against the creation of the State of Israel. Do u know that the British created a state out of Trans-Jordan, and named it Jordan to reward the current King's grandfather?
Until the people of the middle east wake up and realize that they are related, descended from Abraham's 1st and 2nd born sons.

Then perhaps we can look at the offspring of the Indian & Chinese civilizatioins, and the subsequent offspring who were also introduced to the Polynesians. A whole new people group, originally from Yunan, China have taken over the center of South East Asia. Yet these people groups fight each other, even though they are related.

Summary, we are all family. Let us come under the Malaysian flag as brothers & sisters. Dare we dream?
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written by DontPlayGod, January 08, 2008 00:02:26
The Dragonheart wrote:

"To me religion does not make a man to be a killer, a terrorist, a power crazy, corrupted etc etc... You don't have to be an Al Qaedah to be a terrorist. People who do not believe in God can be worst terrorist... in the 40s, 50s, 60s... the communist who said religion is the opium of the people once wanted to rule the world... in Indochina they were the Vietcong, in Thailand they were the CPT, in Malaya there were the CPM, etc etc".

I think you are getting out of point. Here we are talking of religious people believing in and practising their religion. Hence, when we talk of terrorists who are so-called religious fanatics/extremists, please don't mention other peoples like communists, vietcongs, cubans. These people do not do anything in the name of God or of their religion. We are talking of people who claim to be holy or who act on behalf of God.

If you still insist on being an extremist Muslim "as what is required by Allah and His Prophets", then you have not understood what I was writing on how accurate religious scriptures can be. If you still believe that every word in the Koran are the words of Allah 100% despite what I have pointed out, then our discussion ends here. My whole argument has been, let us try to understand the gist or essence of religon and use our conscience and common sense when studying religion. I still contend that none of the scriptures in any of the world's main religions comes directly from the words of God, not even the Koran. The Koran was written, as you wrote, 30 years after the death of Mohammad(pbuh), and the prophet or the angel Gabriel, were the only persons who can verify, but they did not. 30 years is a long time for people to remember and write down accurately anything. Normal people can't even write down 10% of anything accurately after 30 days, or even after 3 days.
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written by The dragonheart, January 08, 2008 07:52:12
DontPlayGod, I rest my case as far as your statement is concern. I don't want to play like GOD and we are out of focus from the main Article.Before people start accusing me of talking out of topic, without looking at the root cause why these arguments comes into play, i rather stop here.

Haver a nice day DontPlayGod, keep what u stand on and i keep mine. smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Tan SN, January 08, 2008 15:42:35
Just live our lives like in holy script, not read our lines in holy script.
I suggest people take up meditation, meditate on good faith, love, compassion and forgiveness, would be better if you found your own guru.
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written by Sunnysoul5, January 08, 2008 17:49:10
Hacking happens everyday and everywhere, but it is difficult to pin down the motive. The service provider can learn from this to improve their technologies. LKS blog seems to be working better, so maybe can learn from him how to minimise interruptions.

The conspiracy theories abound, and there are external forces maybe controlling the powerhouse of the country. Till now most of us will not know who was behind the murder of Benazir for sure. If US backs Musharaf, then what are the possibilities.

Religion is always a very difficult issue to handle, that is why there are wars here and there. The one thing we may not understand is why people believe in the religion and practise it, but then still can go astray. My staunted Christian friends explain to me that we are all human and can make earthy mistakes and sins, so we have to repent. The vicious cycle goes round and round.

It is important to ensure healthy body, mind, soul and spiritual well being in order to survive in the world of issues and complexities. We should not be ruled by religion alone.
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written by DontPlayGod, January 08, 2008 18:01:52
Dear taliban(I just hope you are not an admirer of the Talibans of Pakistan/Afghanistan),

I have beeen trying my level best to write, without malice or spite of any religion, but have been trying to contribute my ideas/thoughts in an academic way.

Even if nobody can write the prose as in the Koran, what does that prove? Does it mean God wrote it? People don't write like the prose written in the bible, but does that also mean that the Bible was written by God? Everybody knows that God, neither did Jesus, write the Bible.

As RPK wrote in the article above, the human race by now has given up on the holy scriptures solving any of mankind's woes. In fact, the scriptures as they are written in now, has contributed to the woes and sufferings of mankind. In a word, what is written in the holy books is not working. Or people just do not understand what is written in the holy books.

In fact, I think why God has not sent more prophets is because sending down more prophets like our prophets of old, is not doing any good to the world. You just have to look at the world around you to let this sink in to our minds. Don't you think it has failed, taliban? Don't agree? Look at the perfect religion in West Asia? Isn't there more sufferings and hardships there than in other parts of the infidel world? Take infidel countries like Russia, China(communist), and even India. Which Islamic countries is having a more peaceful, prosperous, and advanced civilizations than even these 2nd grade countries? Leave alone the more developed countries in Europe, America and Japan.

And the sad part is that when Muslims emigrate, they don't go to the perfect Islamic world of West Asia, but to Europe, Americas, and Australia. And the sad part is that, having made their abode and living comfortably, they start trying to introduce their perfect lives!

I will rest my case, and end my postings. Good day and my best wishes and love to all.
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written by mijoan, January 08, 2008 20:39:13
Seldom have I read such golden words and opinion flow from a righteous Muslim.
In Malaysia we have UMNO Muslims, PAS Muslims and the new one called KEADILAN Muslims. All of them are same. We have experienced the UMNO Version which is UNFAIR, CORRUPT, ANTI-RELIGIOUS, RACIALISTS, EGOISTIC, ARROGANT etc. etc. etc. Putting UMNO Version in a nut shell means they are the paraiyas of their own religion and race. I am not clear if PAS is any better but one thing is sure that they are the cause as to why, UMNO are, what they are today. Well as for KEADILAN, most of them are the former members of the arrogant keris waveing anti-religious and racialist UMNO. Do we Malaysians have a future? We are heading for the Club of DOOM. Syed Akbar Ali the author of the book "Malaysia and the Club of Doom" has the answers to our Malaysian delima. I recomend all Malaysians to purchase this book.and read it before the next GE.
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written by DontPlayGod, January 09, 2008 01:04:39
Avanza1 wrote:

"Allah is the master designer of all living creatures, He will not make such a scientific blunder of His own creation.
086.005"

Excuse for coming out just for this, your above quote. I've always wanted to aske this question to followers of the perfect religion and your posting has given me this opportunity. If God created us all, all living creatures, the plants, trees, the whole Universe, then why do Muslims hate that which God has created, and consider them as haram. I am referring particularly to the pig and the dog. Did God make a mistake in the creation of these two creatures? I thought God created all things in their perfection, and God loves all HIS creations, and said they were perfect.

I have seen Malay neighbours, who, when they see a dog going into their house compound, will behave as if the devil has come into their house compound. But, then, the dog is God's creation!!. So why do they hate God's creations. Shouldn't we love, appreciate, and welcome all living things God created. Or did God created some animals/living things for us to despise and hate?

For your info., I love dogs and appreciate God's creation of this animal as man's best friend. Did God make a mistake in creating both the dog and the pig?

Another take, if God created all living things, and the whole universe, why is it there are some Muslims who go round killing other human beings in the name of God. Aren't they also killing God's proudest creations? Or is it God has approved that they may kill some of his creations who have displeased HIM? Displeased HIM? Based on what reason? Because these people don't follow HIS perfect religion which he has sent down through Mohammad(pbuh)? But then, there are also other prophets with other religion, which is also mentioned in the Koran. Then there are those who are neither Muslims, Christians, or Jews, because in those days there was no newspapers, TV, Radio, and the internet, and these people who were staying in faraway lands from all these prophets, did not hear of all the good news brought by the prophets. What happened to these people? Are they all burning in hell just because they did not get to hear the "good" news of the prophets?

I admit I am ignorant about this, and would someone kindly explain?
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written by Panca Indera, January 09, 2008 01:22:54
Bismillah
Dear “DontPlayGod,” and think alike,

Answer to your questions part one:
If they agree on the basics of the same Koran, why is Al-Qaeda killing thousands of innocent people and destroying properties in the name of God?

[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
2.Why is it that in Taliban Afghanistan, the leaders prohibit their womenfolk from attending schools, and even to go to work?
4.32] And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.
[4.1] O people! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you.
[9.71] And (as for) the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other; they enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle; (as for) these, Allah will show mercy to them; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

The womenfold in Saudi Arabia and Taliban Afghanistan are required to cover themselve from top to bottom, not even their eyes are visible to people around them.
[7.26] : O children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and (clothing) for beauty and clothing that guards (against evil), that is the best. This is of the communications of Allah that they may be mindful.
[24.31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.

[24.60]And (as for) women advanced in years who do not hope for a marriage, it is no sin for them if they put off their clothes without displaying their ornaments; and if they restrain themselves it is better for them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
salam
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written by Panca Indera, January 09, 2008 01:24:28
Dear “DontPlayGod,” and think alike,
answers to part two
fMusic and television are banned in Taliban Afghanistan, and the Talibans gave safe refuge to Al-Qaeda after the destruction of the World Trade Centre. Are these minor ways of difference, as you wrote?

Taliban has every right to give safe refuge to Al-Qaeda as they help to fight the Russian invasion,remember?
Would you not help someone who have help and safe your family and yourself from destruction by your enemy rightly or wrongly?

As I wrote earlier, why is it that religions are thousands of years old?
Religion is as old as Man himself to meet his spiritual needs. Otherwise he is just another animal on this planet doing whatever he wants and out of control.

Why isn't there any religion or any prophets during the last 100 years? Yes, I know, it was said that the Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) is the last in the line prophets sent to Earth, but why?
[33.40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.” Because of the following.
1.He was the most perfect Man throughout mankind, from beginning to the end.
Because of his perfect character, faith, leadership, wisdom and other qualities, he was chosen as the leader of Mankind. He was the master craftsman sent to complete the implementation of the total SURRENDER (ISLAM). SO how can ALLAH send somebody else?
The only reason you, the whole universe, Adam, Eve, and everything else exist is because of the “Praised One”MuhammadPBUH.Its an open secret that many did not know or belief. Think why is Muhammad called Habibullah( the Love of Allah)?

Why doesn't God send down one now to clear up the mess? My simple answer would be that no one will believe Him if he claims to be a prophet.
Note: (saya Tanya, saya jawab, saya pandai, Remind me of my old Bahasa teacher)
Remember our purpose in Life on this earth is to tested on our behavior and actions in relation to others around us, with the Devil as the agent provocateur.


Remember, both the Christians and the Muslims are waiting for the return of Jesus Christ. Would the Christians and the Muslims recognize Jesus and accept HIM when he does come, or would they disagree? What happens then to these two groups of believers?

The Christians are waiting for Jesus PBUH second coming, but the Muslims are waiting for the Mahdi and Jesus, side by side together.
Many Christians will recognize Jesus PBUH from the description in their holy books and revert to Islam as Jesus will point out their error in describing him as God and the Son of God. He will tell them to believe in Allah as the One and Only God and he is only a messenger/prophet.

As for the Muslims, many that did not belief/doubted in the Mahdi will be confused initially, but when they see that The Mahdi is leading the fight for Justice and Real Freedom, starting in Palestine against the Cursed ones, they will start believing and unite.


I know it’s a bit long, but its the least I could do. It would be better if you search the web for the answers yourself.
note: What's from the Quran are true, but whats from me is only my limited knowledge and experience which is not error free

SALAM
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written by The dragonheart, January 09, 2008 05:37:02
Dear DontPlayGod,

Welcome back and you wrote:
"Excuse for coming out just for this, your above quote. I've always wanted to aske this question to followers of the perfect religion and your posting has given me this opportunity. If God created us all, all living creatures, the plants, trees, the whole Universe, then why do Muslims hate that which God has created, and consider them as haram. I am referring particularly to the pig and the dog."

Again DontPlayGod, has argued something without reading the facts first but making a sweeping statements. Where did u get the facts that DOGS are forbidden (haram) to muslims? Again your statements are hearsay and you are jumping to a wrong and negative deductions on ISLAM but not to the particular ignorance Muslims. According to the Hadist, Dogs are just Najis and never it says Haram..One cannot have in contact with dogs if either one is wet. No body eats dogs... do you? I know people in Philippines do.. saw in Hong Kong too.

On the issue of swine, YES... Allah have forbid Muslims on carrion, blood, and the flesh of swine(Pig/Pork). In the Quran, Allah Mention about this forbidden in numerous surahs. But never did Allah order Muslim to "Hate" Pig and Dogs. Your facts are again wrong. See the meaning of the Ayats below:

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:173 He has forbidden to you only carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked; but if one is driven by necessity - neither coveting it nor exceeding his immediate need -no sin shall be upon him: for, behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) 5:3 FORBIDDEN to you is carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked, and the animal that has been strangled, or beaten to death, or killed by a fall, or gored to death, or savaged by a beast of prey, save that which you [yourselves] may have slaughtered while it was still alive; and [forbidden to you is] all that has been slaughtered on idolatrous altars. And [you are forbidden] to seek to learn through divination what the future may hold in store for you: this is sinful conduct. Today, those who , are bent on denying the truth have lost all hope of [your ever forsaking] your religion: do not, then, hold them in awe, but stand in awe of Me! Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion. As for him, however, who is driven [to what is forbidden] by dire necessity and not by an inclination to sinning -behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

Al-An'am (The Cattle) 6:145 Say [O Prophet]: "In all that has been revealed unto me, I do not find anything forbidden to eat, if one wants to eat thereof, unless it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine-for that, behold, is loathsome-or a sinful offering over which any name other than God's has been invoked. But if one is driven by necessity - neither coveting it nor exceeding his immediate need -then [know that], behold, thy Sustainer is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."

An-Nahl (The Bee) 16:115 He has forbidden to you only carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked; but if one is driven [to it] by necessity - neither coveting it nor exceeding his immediate need -verily, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

Continue below....
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written by The dragonheart, January 09, 2008 05:37:44
Again I want to rebut you, my dear DontPlayGod, that Allah forbid any kind of DESTRUCTION on this earth...Even BEFORE Allah create MAN (Adam):

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:30 AND LO! Thy Sustainer said unto the angels: "Behold, I am about to establish upon earth one who shall inherit it." They said: "Wilt Thou place on it such as will spread corruption thereon and shed blood -whereas it is we who extol Thy limitless glory, and praise Thee, and hallow Thy name?" [God] answered: "Verily, I know that which you do not know."

There are Plenty of Verses in the Quran where Allah forbids destructions and doing wicked acts (corruption) to this earth. Some of them are:

Al-A'raf (The Heights) 7:139 As for these here -verily, their way of life is bound to lead to destruction; and worthless is all that they have ever done!"

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:205 But whenever he prevails, he goes about the earth spreading corruption and destroying [man's] tilth and progeny: and God does not love corruption.

Hud (The Prophet Hud) 11:85 Hence, O my people, [always] give full measure and weight, with equity, and do not deprive people of what is rightfully theirs, and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption.

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:60 And [remember] when Moses prayed for water for his people and We replied, "Strike the rock with thy staff!"-whereupon twelve springs gushed forth from it, so that all the people knew whence to drink. [And Moses said:] "Eat and drink the sustenance provided by God, and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption."

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:205 But whenever he prevails, he goes about the earth spreading corruption and destroying [man's] tilth and progeny: [189] and God does not love corruption.

Al-A'raf (The Heights) 7:74 "And remember how He made you heirs to [the tribe of] `Ad and settled you firmly on earth, so that you [are able to] build for yourselves castles on its plains and hew out mountains [to serve you] as dwellings: remember, then, God's blessings, and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption."

There are many more, DontPlayGod, but you have to read and don't "ASS-u-ME" from your hearsay stories from ignorance people and people whose eyes are blinded like yours who only see Muslims killing others but never saw the non Muslims who did worst.I am so sorry for your shallow view about things happening around you. Every word you write seem to be MALICE and BIAS on the Muslims but not Human as a whole. But you deny.

Muslim who disobey Allah will go to Hell and those who do not believe in Allah will be the fuel to the fire of Hell!

May Allah forgive me for wrongs that I have done and save me from the fire of Hell.




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written by The dragonheart, January 09, 2008 06:24:02
Dear DontPlayGod,

On your confusion about Islam and Dogs, here are two Hadist on how Islam look at Dogs:

Narrated 'Adi bin Hatim:
I asked the Prophet (about the hunting dogs) and he replied, "If you let loose (with Allah's name) your tamed dog after a game and it hunts it, you may eat it, but if the dog eats of (that game) then do not eat it because the dog has hunted it for itself." I further said, "Sometimes I send my dog for hunting and find another dog with it. He said, "Do not eat the game for you have mentioned Allah's name only on sending your dog and not the other dog."


Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise."
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written by DontPlayGod, January 09, 2008 11:06:04
Dear The dragonheart,

What you write doesn't reflect the reality that is happening in our world, even what you write is from the Koran. So what RPK and I have been saying is that religion in its present form is not a solution or even a guidance for mankind. I again ask you to look around you, look at the perfect world in West Asia.

As for you explanation on dogs, the reality on the ground, even in our country is completely different from what you write, and I was all along trying to impress upon you the reality of what is going on around us. No point in quoting verses after verses, but the reality is not there in the world around us according to what you or the Koran says. Even our author on "Malaysia and the Club of Doom" wrote regarding dogs that nowhere in the Koran that the dog is to be treated as haram, but the reality in the Islamic world is that the dog is treated as a sinful and dirty animal, not be reared as a pet, and not even to be touched, or even to be near with. Syed Akhbar Ali even wrote that the prophet(pbuh) says that "you may eat anything that the dog brings you". This goes to show that the prophet has a high regard for dogs!

I will answer other issues later as time is not on my side at the moment. Good day, and assalamulaikom!

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written by Kritz, January 09, 2008 11:27:35
written by DontPlayGod,
So what RPK and I have been saying is that religion in its present form is not a solution or even a guidance for mankind.
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Bro! Are you sure that RPK is saying that? Please give one reliable quote from RPK!
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written by taliban_d_padang_pasir, January 09, 2008 12:52:19
Dear Dontplaygod,

want to comment what you have quote below

What you write doesn't reflect the reality that is happening in our world, even what you write is from the Koran. So what RPK and I have been saying is that religion in its present form is not a solution or even a guidance for mankind. I again ask you to look around you, look at the perfect world in West Asia.
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What you look only from the negative site. weak up bro.... if you look for negative it's all you get..... if you want to look for perfect you will never find it. Prophet Muhammad been send for solution and guidance to mankid. If you want to find the perfection look at him. Not us ... we are not perfect.... You want to see a good muslim look at his sahabah (companions) they are good muslim. I think you've misunderstand what RPK want to mention to all peole. We muslim try to be good by rejecting all the evil things, and we look bad for that. We reject all the program on TV that draging people from right part we look bad for that. We want muslim to obey Allah rules, we look bad for that. read other artical from RPK regarding this.

and you mention about this "you may eat anything that the dog brings you" do you really understand this hadist? or you just say it with you own understanding by reading it regardless looking at the situation when this hadist been said.

'Adi bin Hatim, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
I said: Messenger of Allah, I set off trained dogs and they catch for me (the game) and I recite the name of Allah over it (I slaughter the game by reciting Bismillah, Allah-u-Akbar), whereupon he said: When you set off your trained dogs and you recited the name of Allah (while setting them off), then eat (the game). I said: Even if these (the trained dogs) kill that (the game)? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Even if these kill, but (on the condition) that no other dog, which you did not set off (along with your dogs), participates, (in catching the game). I said to him: I throw Mi'rad, a heavy featherless blunt arrow, for hunting and killing (the game). Thereupon he said: When you throw Mi'rad, and it pierces, then eat, but if it falls flatly (and beats the game to death), then do not eat that.

refer to syahrah muslim to understand the mening of trained dog or go to muslim scholar..........
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written by densemy, January 09, 2008 16:52:40
What confuses me is that DontPlayGod gave some pretty convincing reasons why the Q'ran couldnt be the exact word of God... time lapse, failing memories, lost pieces of bone and palm fronds etc etc. Even Q'ranic scholars admit there is confusion in the translation

Yet you accept those writings verbatim and debate endlessly about the meaning of individual words... Some writers even use it as a "scientific reference" for example in the debate on abortion.

The facts dont equate

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written by The dragonheart, January 09, 2008 21:13:47
Thank you taliban_d_padang_pasir for answering to Dontplaygod on his comments about my postings. I don't have to answer him as my answers would be the same as yours.

Dontplaygod seem to believe that all Muslims are pious and their act are equivalent to what Islam is.He also believe that whoever become Muslims are doing bad things, Taliban do bad things, AlQaeeda do bad things, all muslim mullahs do bad things. That what he saw and see through his lenses . Thats what his brain tells his heart. It is difficult to make a man who refuse to understand and differentiate between Islam and Muslim, and between God Fearing Pious Muslim and a Fasiq Muslim. I am not surprised that in todays hi-tech world there can be more Jahiliyyahs than there were during Prophet SAW era.

My purpose of rebutting him is not to correct him as a person but to educate the other readers at large who are visiting and those who are reading his "unbalance" and bias comments in MT.

For the rest of the readers here, I am not denying that there are "Many" bad Muslims, "ignorance" Muslims, and UnIslamic Muslims... But the are Many more (maybe Half of the world Population) are good Muslims. What the International western medias (including Zam's RTM) are showing to the world at large, Muslims are barbarians and non ethical. This are surely Malice, Bias and defamatory indeed. As learned Muslims we should stand and put the round peg in the round hole and the square peg in the square hole. At the same time we must educate our Brothers and Sisters Muslims to move on to the right path as what the Al Quran and the Hadist have laid down for us with the help of all Mutahijid Ulamaks around us, Insyallah.

Thank you taliban_d_padang_pasir,Panca Indera, and the rest who tried to make the wrong becomes right. May Allah bless you always, Insyallah.
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written by densemy, January 09, 2008 21:49:08
Kritz... I am real man... and as for stubborn?? I'll refer you to the recent discussions on the translation of the word which you believe to mean houris to more likely be the Aramaic for sweet dried white grapes a luxury item in the time of Muhammad
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written by DontPlayGod, January 09, 2008 22:03:53
My dear friends, The dragonheart, taliban, and kritz, please don't take it as if I am condemning your religion. Rest assured there is not the slightest intention. From the outset, I have emphasised I am only debating and posting my views in an academic manner(meaning as a study of a subject). Keep focused. If it makes you happy, the scriptures in the Bible was not written by Jesus or any of the angels, but by his disciples years after He has passed away. So the same argument applies to the Bible. Moreover, the bible has been translated, and re-written many times.

I would not like to go through what you have all posted or presented. I don't think that answers any of my argument. You can say that the Koran was written in the best Arabic prose, the book is beautifully bound, and maybe even gold-edged, etc. etc. And the Mullahs, Ayatollahs, religious teachers(or even yourselves) can recite the Koran from the first page to the last page, and back from the last page to the first page. You can quote me paragraphs of what was written to support your views. But that is not the whole point.

What I am saying is that religion(not only Islam) in their present forms is not working. Can't you see the reality around you? I have already written about this, about West Asia, Europe, etc. Are you happy, or are you satisfied that the perfect religion is working as it should? I am talking, repeat, about the reality on the ground and in the present world. Do you see a semblance of paradise, or even a small semblance of paradise anywhere in the perfect world of the perfect religion? Please remain academically tuned and don't let emotions cloud your thinking processes.

Can you see that mad people like Osama bin Laden kill thousands of people, properties, and declare that he is doing it on behalf of God. He is assuming God will give him his due reward when he leaves this world. Can you see the laughing bomber of the famed Bali Bomb blas, laughing away and saying that when he dies, 72 angels will welcome him, and he has killed more than 200 tourists who did nothing other than relaxing and enjoying themselves? And these perpetrators are no ordinary Muslims like you, but Mullahs, and religous leaders with a mass following!

It is only when religion is separated from Government or politics can we see some semblance of sanity, logic, and good government, and even a civilized and happy society. Do you need examples? Europe, Americas, Japa, Australia, and even Taiwan. And now China and India is fast on the road to developed state to join the Group of 8 or even Group of 22. Here religion is a private matter between the person and God. Nothing to do even with the President, King, or any political party. Nothing to do even with your club(any club) or Imam/priest.

Friends, please concentrate on the reality on the ground, as I have been repeating myself. Quoting verses is not going to get us and the world anywhere or solve any of our problems.
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written by The dragonheart, January 10, 2008 01:29:05
My Dear DontPlayGod,

The problem with you is you want people to read what you write but never to read what others wrote.

Let me tell you for the very last time. I am not against what you wrote about the situations you saw in your life BUT the facts that you wrote about Islam and generalized Muslims globally is not correct. People like Rohani, Taliban, me and the rest who felt that your facts are totally wrong and we are just telling you and the rest of the readers here the truth. I or Taliban did not argued on your issues but on your facts. DO YOU DIG, MAN?

You said Islam hates PIG and Dogs... I just show you ISLAM does not teach its followers hate those animals..and why Muslims don't eat pork...so I support my statement with the God"s Law from the Quran and Hadist about dogs.

You said Muslims are killing people and doing destruction to earth... I said Islam forbids destruction way before Adam was created... I showed you the verse from the Quran...

You said The Quran was translated into Arabic..and Rohani put to you that your wrong because Mohamed PBUH speaks Arabic... where did you get the information that the Quran was translated into Arabic 30years after Mohamed PBUH death?

Man! You keep on telling us that you are doing an academic discussion .... Gee... Your academic discussion are worthless... More to coffee shop hearsay facts. If I am your lecture, with the facts you presented in your so call "Academic Discussion" I shall only give you 0.5 out of 10.

And from your last postings, you said the Bible was written by Jesus's by his disciples years after He has passed away. Again where did you Get this "academic" information of yours? Negative it will make me happy because I and all the Muslim believe that the Bible is the Holy Book from Allah, so do the Thorah.... Abrahaem PUH, Jesus PUH, and Mohammed PBUH NEVER wrote any of the Holy books! Need me put the authority here?

My friend, DontPlayGod, If you want to have an academic discussion, either you support your facts with some Authority, or do some empirical studies on the matter. Do not GENERALIZED (or the Malay says Cakap Rambang or Hentam keromo). If you say the Quran or the Injil or the Taurat or the Zabur are wrong...show us where it went wrong...

If you say Muslim are bad, tell us by name who are these people .. don't just say all Muslims or all Mullahs or all talibans etc2...My dear DontPlayGod, a good academic discussion needs authority and proof... But you are giving statements like UMNO people talking at coffee shops.

I think Rohani, Taliban, Me and even RPK are ready to condemn and Muslims who are against the true Islamic teachings but we will be defensive if you generalized all Muslims are terrorist, killing innocent people and destroying this earth.

I know you are no a Muslim and you don't care a damn what the Quran or the Injil said. But how can you discuss the good and the bad about the Holy book when you don't know and understand about its contents...far away of how the Books were reveal?

I don't know at what level of education you have but the way you put things definitely not academic at all!!!

I think you want to write like how Engku RPK wrote. Man... Engku's writtings are way superior than yours. Engku have GAYA... All his words(even accusations) are supported by authorities. Sometimes the beginning of first few paragraphs of Engku's sounds hard and expressly belittled others... BUT if you continue reading the first expressed words are actually an entre "impliedly" to highlight the main issue that Engku wanted to tell.

Sorry DontPlayGod, your writings are not even close to Engku's standards. I saw many times you misunderstood what was the actual Message Engku RPK was trying to tell. I notice if Engku RPK wrote something to bashed the Muslims, you will be one of the first to dance with the music.. but your steps is always wrong... You danced Cha-cha with a samba music.

DontPlayGod, we must learn to respect others feelings.. don't condemn the Christian, Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc2 Just tell who and who and what they did wrong...e.g: Americans are not all mad people But Bush is. So hit Bush not all American citizens!

Do you Dig Me man? hmmm I am sure you don't... but never mind... some people in here do...thats good enough for me..
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written by DontPlayGod, January 10, 2008 12:49:34
My friend The dragonheart,

I think you have still got me wrong. I have to repeat myself in that I am not condemning or whacking your religion or any religion, but just to debate on some points and on the reality that is going on around us. I had hoped that you can at least contribute by explaining the reality around us, and on what is actually on the ground. I have been repeating myself umpteen times that religions in their present forms is not working for us, and our civilizations, as it should. Is that so hard to understand?

But you insist that every word in the Koran is directly from God and I have given you my reasons for my doubts, no need for me to go through it again. I think many others can see my point, "densemy" for one. So take it as one of my points in this debate. I do appreciate your viewpoint on this too, but let the general readers judge.

I can say the same things for the Bible, but here, the Christians would not say that the words are directly from God, as they know the Bible was written years after Jesus death and that Jesus did not, neither did any angel, wrote the holy scriptures but some of the disciples. Hence, it was not verified by Jesus or any angel.

You also wrote that Nabi Mohammad(pbuh) was chosen because he was from an illustrious family and his character was impeccable. This is one area on which I have grave doubts on. I won't comment on this point, because I think it would be too sensitive to the Muslims in general.

Anyway, a very good day to you and your friends. Assalmulaikum.
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written by The dragonheart, January 10, 2008 15:34:59
DontPlayGod,
I understand your point of discussion loud and clear... but i have not discussed anything on your point that religions in their present forms is not working for us, and our civilizations, as it should. How can i contribute with your discussion when you keep on branding others religions and its followers with wrong facts. Get the facts right first then we can discuss.

Your comments have two areas of discussions, firstly about applying religion will not work to administer the earth and the second one is your malice statements about other peoples' religions which you defamed without knowing the subject matter in and out. I don't want to comment about Hinduism on why they pray to a statue which they themselves built from stone and rocks. Who am I to comment that they are wrong unless I have studied about their religion in total. Similarly, I am sure you don't like if I say you are a "Kurang Ajar" kind of person and your parents groom you up wrong. But I don't know you in person and it is not right for me to say you and your parents "kurang ajar" just because you like to condemn other peoples' religion without any substantive authority and proof. But I am sure there are people who might say that just by reading your comments.


Now,DontPlayGod, if you want to discuss about applying religions in their present forms in administering a state or organization ... whether it will work for us and our civilizations or not, lets be factual. Don't condemn the religion. It is not the Religion at fault. Most religions taught humans to be good in all sense of life. Tell me,DontPlayGod, where does religion leads to the failure? Why Saddam attacked Iran? Who supported Iraq in Killing the Iranian? Was it because of religion? The WW1 and WW2...was it because of religion? The Gulf war, was it because of religion or was it because of money?

If one big bully comes and suppressed a weak one... how would the weaker one to fightback? What would you do if your grand father, your mother and you children were killed by bombs dropped from the sky by the big bullies? You still wanna make friends with the big bullies?


Now lets look at Saudi Arabia, their criminal laws sounds barbaric to the western educated people. Why? because they apply the Hudud Laws based from the Quran. If you can go to Medina or Mecca you will see that there are hundreds of thousand of shops and traders everywhere. When the Azan is called..all business people would just cover their good with a blanket or cloth spread and go to the nearest mosque to pray. No body steals or rob the goods. Why? 2 things..fear of God and Fear of the punishment set by God in the world and the world after. I can talk about Hudud at length but this is not the right forum to do so. what I am telling you here is that the religious method of administrating a state works.

Look at countries which you are proud of their democratic systems and full human rights. Look at their most recent Crime Statistics on Rapes; United States ranked the top with 89,110 cases, followed by South Africa: 53,008; Canada: 24,049 and Australia: 15,630... Bad huh?

Yeah . i know you will want to say that those Arabs who traveled out of thier homeland are drinkes and womanizer too... Hey these people are human just like you too. But are all of them religious? are all Arabs Muslims? the answer my friend is NO.

You hate the Al Qaeeda, the Mullahs, the Talibans so much as we can see these are the common examples you can give in almost all of your comments. Do you know why are they fighting? For what cause? Who are the masterminds who supply the weapons and intelligence informations? Why are they doing these? What is so important in these land full of sand and rocky hills? Nothing! But how about the minerals below the sandy soil? Why Bush is so interested to be in OIC when they are not Islamic friendly in their policies?

What I am trying to say here is, it is not just a Muslim, but a Muslim who can follow Allah's willing his administration can lead us to a better life. That if we only care to see and study the issues deeply and not just barking based from facts of an empty vessel.

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written by The dragonheart, January 10, 2008 15:36:25
Lets not go too far. Lets go to back to Malaysia. UMNO have ruled Malaysia for over 50 years supported by the idealism of the British colonialism and capitalism system. Yes, we see the tremendous development in the city areas and areas of interests to the capitalist and controlling parties. Corrupted acts is a way of life in such system. A system which only care about bottom line and end results rather than how the methods should be use to meets the end and not caring what happens to the rest after the result is being achieved. Malaysia do have Petronas but in reality only a few benefit from the industry... its profits goes many tens of billions yearly...but where does the money goes to? MAS a flop, Proton a flop... KLCC and the twin towers still stands on an individual land,. That individual even get a fee tower attached to the KLCC and a land to replace the race course where KLCC stands today and still collecting yearly rentals from KLCC.

Since 1957, Malaysia is never an Islamic state. Islam is only the official religion of the Federation. For Penang, Malacca, Sabah and Sarawak, the care taker of Islam is the Yang DiPertuan Agong. The UMMO leader says Malaysia is an Islamic State. How could it be? The Supreme law of the land is not an Islamic Law but the Malaysian Constitution. Islamic criminal Laws are not admissible in the Malaysian Courts. Many UMNO leaders are not even Islamic in their daily acts. Telling a lie is not Islamic... A free education is a free education, Islam does not allow muslims to bomb innocent woman with C4, Islam does not allow usry or Riba, Islam orders Muslim to help poor people, Islam does not differentiate race and color... But after 50 years ruling this country, the poor remain poor, racist feeling is getting no different, money and environment and power corruptions are getting worse, immoral and criminal acts are increasing... This is not Islamic at all.

PAS have ruled Kelantan for quite some time now. Even with pressures from the federal in terms of financial support, the state survived. The state government even allow the biggest statue of Buddha to be built in Kelantan. The menteri Besar does not live in his official palace but made it as a state venue for official events. The Menteri Besar also cuts his allowances for the sake of the state finacial burden. The chinese and Indians in Kelantan are very happy with the State government and they even formed a "Kelab Penyokong PAS" for their support of the Islamic leader. They have their own schools and most top students in the country comes from this scool. Kelantan is the first and only state who provide death insurance for old people (inclusive of non-muslims). There are many other things PAS mange to do despite blockage and sabotages from UMNO.
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written by Terminator, January 11, 2008 08:36:02
All I can say is that if all muslims were as educated and open-minded like RPK, then this country will be a better place. It is very important to know that very often the glass is half full as well as half empty. Everything may be relative NOW but ... time will tell if it has been CONTEXTUALLY correct or not. This I believe is called progression of the humankind. The ultimate question for BN is that ... other than its decisions being 'considered wrong', is it a progressive decision! Remember, TDM made a lot of 'percieved bad decisions' but now I believe we all know where those decision stand !!!! What decisions has AAB made ... right or wrong ... for future reflections !!!???
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written by kedahan63, January 11, 2008 14:22:47
YM RPK,

Since the Cabinet has ruled, that means every time I sing the NegaraKu, I'm breaking the law. Every time I sing a State Anthem, I'm breaking the law, every time my children and their non-Muslim friends recite and sing the National Anthem, the State Anthem and the Rukun Negara, they risk being charged under the ISA for consistently breaking the law.

This is what we voted the non-muslim reps for? To sit and agree to pass such ridiculous rulings??? Pretty obvious no one thought thru the whole thing.

Fortunately, it's not Fatwa and we don't Sylvester "I am The Law!" Stallone as a police or religious officer here; otherwise we, the non-muslims, would either be staring down the barrel of a large-calibre, high-velocity weapon or pushing pens, printing license plates or breaking rocks in some non-descript penal colony off the coast of Malaysia.

regards
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written by harrbm, January 12, 2008 21:55:25
I need a leader in Malaysia who could jail those who abused powers entrusted by the people to commmit wrongs. Who is this leader? I can only think of one person. The YDP Agung.

Malaysia, my beloved country. The rakyat, my bethrens. The KING, my reason for UNITY.
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written by Motherchell, January 14, 2008 01:12:12
We need a technocrat leader , who can walk the talk --- a person who can do what he believes is good for the country.
The most Important issue is education OF THE MASSES. OH GOD THIS WILL TAKE ANOTHER 40 years -- that too only if there is an implosion inside the UMNO to make the corrections.The permutations are too much!
I wonder when??
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written by Admiral Tojo, January 15, 2008 17:11:18
Dragonheart,
learn from the Quran. Every time in human history, when the kings/queens were high priests/priestesses as well, the civilizations have collapsed. Manchu Picchu, Borobudur, Egypt, Angkor Watt, the Wall in Jurusalem, the temples of Sumeria, the mosques of Pakistan etc etc. What remains for our lesson, are the magnificent places of worship,still standing in ruin. All the resources, effort, energy and wealth spent in the sycophantic act of worship. Quran advises us to instead, concentrate in bettering our own society. I think you are seriously in error, in taking the Pagan Arab Religion of Stone Worship as the ISLAM (DEEN) as expounded by Quran.

My GOD, who is closer to me than my jugular vein, omnipresent, omniscient and does not need me to BODEK Him. Whatever for?

Treat problems between humans, as is happening all over the world, as just that, a human problem, out of their own doing. Do not blame GOD for it as we were ALL born with freedom to implore, reflect, analyse and NOT accept anything that we cannot verify. Lastly, GOD never needed for Him to be represented through a political party, be it UMNO or PAS.

My advise is to drop religion like a brick, ALL religions. Waste of time and effort in only making the Mullahs, Priests, Rabbis, Monks and what have you rich whilst the people suffer injustices.

Shalom
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written by Thomas47, January 15, 2008 17:35:56
After going through some of YM RPK's articles I began to understand why there are parties that tried so hard to put his blog site out of business. Being one of the few to dare openly criticizing the Government for all it's weaknesses (whatever that can be named and printed) is one thing, what they were most afraid of is not so much the blogs posted but the response or more correctly the commentors.

Yes, the good response received on every blogs posted and that it provoked thoughts and arguments from all of us, which is something they don't like to see happening. They wanted us to remain as 'yes men' and follow blindly and unquestioning to every of their whim and fancy because they hold the dices, in this case they are the "Kerajaan". This is only one blog site and already they saw what they don't like. What will happen if all the rakyat started thinking openly and will argue and to make comments like us...? It'll be a nightmare and with the GE to be held at anytime now. Keep up the good work RPK.

As for this article, I want to share you my experience. I'm a Muslim or a Saudara Baru as some called it. Been a Muslim for 18 years now. After professing my faith to Islam, I bought these books: The Holy Quran (with translation), a Ilmu Fiqah and a book on the concept and foundation of the Islamic faith. I showed these items to an older Muslim friend who took one look and asked me to only read and understand the content of the Quran first. He said: "Apa yang perlu diketahui semuanya ada dalam kitab Al-Quran. Bila awak dah faham semua maksud di dalam nya baru lah cuba baca yang lain. I followed his advice without really understanding why. After many years and witnessing events unfolding before me then I began to realized and understand what he's been trying to tell me years ago.
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written by Fart Fart Wah, January 17, 2008 14:11:28
It is only in Malaysia that we have this problem...As usual some people claim possession of a God they cannot see..fro all i know he is laughing at all thia absurdity and stupidity..

This just goes to prove that the Blind will always lead the Blind...
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written by temenggong, January 18, 2008 12:27:18
"After many years and witnessing events unfolding before me then I began to realized and understand what he's been trying to tell me years ago."

Read further and you'll drop islam as a religion. There is no religion! I think this is what he was trying to tell you too.
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written by Panca Indera, January 19, 2008 15:25:29
written by temenggong, January 18, 2008 | 12:27:18
"After many years and witnessing events unfolding before me then I began to realized and understand what he's been trying to tell me years ago."

Read further and you'll drop islam as a religion. There is no religion! I think this is what he was trying to tell you too.

Ok smart aleck, proof to me there is no religion.
What about those billions of people who prefess;
Hinduism
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Yazdânism
Mandaeism
Zoroastrianism
Sikhism
Buddhism(some say its not religion but a way of life and sets of beliefs
Taoism
Confuciusism
Animism
Are blind and daft or what?

Note:I don’t mind if you say I don’t have/believe in/a religion or don’t belief God or Allah.(. That’s you choice. But, please don’t you think you need to re-phrase/re-word your sentence?
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written by temenggong, January 19, 2008 16:40:15
The other religions are there of course, whether christianity, hinduism, taoism, etc. But Buddhism and Islam is a deen sans rituals. Hinduism is also a deen, way of life, plus a full fledged religion. If you practise any rituals then you are not a muslim. I think your friend was trying to tell you this without teaching.

I can prove to you but you are asked to read the quran yourself and not hear it from others. Is there anyone who wishes to read? (54.17) I can invite you to read (convey the message (Al-Ghashiyah: 21- 22) but not teach you. No one must teach the quran to another except invite them to read for themselves, then accept it or not. Do not place anything alongside the quran; no teacher, no imam, no mufti, no companion, no caliph, no prophet, no sunah, no hadith, no nothing!

If you drop the rituals you have dropped the religion.
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written by Admiral Tojo, January 21, 2008 14:20:41
Dear Pancha Indera,
there are more than 2 billion people in this World who are termed Atheist, Freethinkers and others, those who do not belief in the GOD that popular religions portray, which is, The GOD that they can see and a GOD that has human attributes of anger, wrath, vengeance.

All those who have religions, for me, have problems that they will have to overcome and address, themselves. Not my problem, but the fact is, they like to rub their disbelieve into your face, sometimes using institutions.

Ponder!
Shalom
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written by TWOG, January 22, 2008 09:07:03
"We are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Stephen Roberts
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written by TWOG, January 22, 2008 09:18:26
Some quotes:

Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Blaise Pascal -- Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.

Emo Philips -- When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

Richard Jeni -- You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend

Bertrand Russell -- And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence

George Bernard Shaw -- The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.

Epicurus -- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Doug McLeod -- I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence.

http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/viewQuotes.php

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written by DontPlayGod, January 25, 2008 17:41:30
Dear taliban,

If you point me to this website or that website, or quote verses from the Koran, then I can also refer you to the faithfreedom website, and many other websites. I can also refer you to the Bible, the buddhist scriptures, taoist scriptures, hindu scriptures, and even the many other spiritual works which are not from the accepted mainstream religions.

So, what does it all mean? Let us keep our minds, eyes, and ears open. Let us not keep it closed. Let us read religion with an open mind. God gave us a brain. Use it. I have already given my argument why our present main stream religious scriptures are not necessarily directly from the mouth of God. Please refer back to my much earlier postings above, for my reasons for saying so.

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written by panca, January 25, 2008 18:52:38
Clinging (as in all human) is in your taste buds for some real sufferings. Wasting too much time proving the existence of god and religion.

If one wishes to be wholesome(only wish), just purify mind, avoid evil and do good.

The cow aren't coming as yet. You may want to look at the book to quote or need to in order to save someone, it's too late, he's drown. Just turn to your mind, spiritually.

Otherwise one may be actually perpetuating a life of lies and bad actions without knowing it or turning blind.

No need to shout who is more superior, wholesomeness in daily life is universal and deemed superior.
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