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REVERSION FROM ENGLISH TO MALAY IN THE TEACHING OF MATHS AND THE SCIENCES PDF Print
Wednesday, 14 May 2008 15:59

There are recent moves to pressure the authorities to have the teaching of the Sciences and Mathematics revert back to Bahasa Melayu from the current use of English. This is indeed a very bad idea and move as such.

There are great advantages, in the usage of English to teach, for the following reasons :-

  1. The original source of all the information and knowledge drawn upon is almost entirely from books/documents prepared in English. It is therefore a sheer waste of rakyat's resources (government people, time and money) to undertake the translation, etc., etc., etc.

  2. Upon any student pursuing tertiary education, the reference materials are all usually in English and the students are severely handicapped when they are only familiar with foundational terminology in Bahasa Melayu.

  3. Upon moving into the working world (private sector), the language of communication used in the commercial world is English. Here again, the “handicapped” need to work hard to gain competence, if at all they are selected in the interviews. It is most often the Malay who gets left out because the Malay is usually less (or not) competent in the English language as compared to a non-Malay.

The less than competent in English just cannot grasp or participate in commercial/international exhibitions, conferences and business discussions. In fact being poor in English is worse than being “wrongly dressed for the occasion” in the matter of confidence in oneself prior to a meeting or a presentation.

The Malays of the school system before 1970 were at par if not better than their non-Malay classmates, in the use of English in verbal or written communication. There are so very many examples amongst the “senior citizen” retired civil servants or politicians. So many of them are even better than the average citizen of England, Australia or the US, in using the King's (or Queen's whichever) English.

Any senior ranking UMNO politician minister (both present and past) would privately (NOT IN PUBLIC THOUGH ???) agree that a complete working knowledge of English is critically essential.

This is confirmed by no less a personality than Mahathir himself. He had throughout his quest for position, power and domination allowed the position of Bahasa Melayu to be what it had been solely because to downplay Bahasa Melayu's importance would have been politically suicidal. However, when he no longer desired that “station in his life” anymore, he pushed so hard to put back the use of English in teaching particularly in the Sciences and Mathematics. This is admittance of the importance of English and this move of his is now to ensure a better future for the coming generation/s of this country. He has “admitted” he has crippled this nation's younger generations. He, Mahathir, was not denied the benefit of competence in the English language, but he chose and worked to deny his junior countrymen this benefit during his 22years in power and also during the years before his ascension to power. Quite a “criminal” attitude and behavior. Would you not agree??

  • In the Law and in legal matters, is not the English version to be the final reference/confirmation. What is the effiency??? Why waste time and money in “duplication” when you cannot duplicate perfectly. More people wastage, time wastage, money wastage and all this at the rakyat's expense, such expenditure more so unnecessary now with food crisis and other yet to come crises impending.

It is said that the rural Malays cannot cope with the change to English. Incidently, I studied at the Royal Military College from 1967 till 1970 and the majority of my Malay friends there, from all over the country, were also from rural areas. Surely the rural then was far more ULU than it is now AND YET these rural Malays could become “best of the best”, so to speak.

Perhaps, the present crop of teachers find it difficult to teach in English, having been groomed in Malay. I do recall that in the early seventies, the teachers then were all groomed in English AND YET worked on it to switch. Surely what was good for the goose should be good for the gander too!!! The benefits today are surely VERY OBVIOUS. The switch in early 70's had NO OBVIOUS BENEFITS, the results of which are clearly seen today.

Surely the use of English to teach the Sciences and Mathematics is the better solution – CONFIRMED BY MAHATHIR AT A POINT IN HIS LIFE (the greatest thing he ever did) WHERE THERE WAS TRULY NO PERSONAL AGENDA OR BENEFIT, BUT A GENUINE CONCERN FOR THE COUNTRY AND ITS FUTURE GENERATION/S. HE DID NOT DESIRE TO CONTINUE TO HANDICAP THE YOUNG AND TO PUT THEM AT A DISADVANTAGE IN A VERY COMPETITIVE WORLD.

The people who do not want this change are those who want an easy way out and want to use pressure tactics to force their way upon the “politician” authorities. CAN WE ALLOW THESE HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE TO FURTHER HANDICAP THE YOUNG AND THE CHILDREN OF OUR BELOVED COUNTRY. These youth/children are the future of this country and will be the ones who make or break the nation.

Surely the RESPONSIBLE ONES WHO LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND ITS YOUTH/CHILDREN CANNOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.

It is possible to start a movement/campaign that puts across the message that if we want a successful “future Malaysia” with an extremely capable young generation, then the TEACHING OF ENGLISH PARTICULARLY IN THE SCIENCES AND MATHEMATICS is an absolute necessity.

We must have this “movement” highlight the irresponsibility of those want regression by reverting the teaching of the Sciences and Mathematics from the “efficient” English back to the “inefficient (global perspective)” Bahasa Melayu. These irresponsible people intend to “handicap” the coming generations simply because they are plain lazy and are pandering to their own selfish interests. They have nary a concern for the future generations of our country – these future generations who will make Malaysia TRULY BOLEH, TRULY JAGUH ANTARABANGSA AND NOT JAGUH KAMPUNG.

Finally, as the past experience has shown, the greatest losers, I believe will be the Malays, particularly the majority who are not amongst the elitist group. The elite Malays will ensure that their offspring obtain the competence in the English language. The non-Malays “traditionally” too ensure, by their own efforts, that their offspring obtain the competence.

The naked truth is that these “Use Bahasa Melayu” pressure group/s are BETRAYING/DESTROYING THEIR OWN KIND.

Can you, Sir, do something to prevent this “treachery” from succeeding. I do look forward to your kind consideration on this matter and your action thereafter. I thank you, Sir.

- Chandra Kumar

Comments (137)Add Comment
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written by kc respect, May 14, 2008 16:07:29
Our education system has been going downward for many, many years. Leave it to the stupidity of the Minister concerned to make it even worse.

Such stupidity will one day force our children to study English in Malay.
Malaysia Can-one!!!
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written by joejoe, May 14, 2008 16:13:51
Great Move .. we are moving back into our turtle shell. We are truly moving contrary to globalization. Congratulations!

This is another smart decision from the Govt ... just like ...

1) MAS deciding not to compete with Thai or Singapore Airlines -- but compete with Air Asia indeed. What intelligence.

2) Proton deciding not to compete globally but against Perodua -- Wow !

3) Telekom Malaysia competing with Maxis -- instead of Singtel or other regional telcos -- Fantastic!

I can think of many more examples but hey ... I salute the high intelligence of our leaders!

Syabas ! Malaysia Boleh .. Katak di bawah Tempurung !
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written by Hope4all, May 14, 2008 16:14:46
Wonderful!

Let's have the Americans, British, Germans, French, Russians and Japanese learn Science and Mathematics from us. We have so much to offer to the world in Science and Mathematics that we don't use the world's language in technology and but they should use ours instead.

Bring it on, whether it's Malay or English or French or Spanish, the non-Malays will end up excelling anyway, with or without handicap.
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written by MarchOn, May 14, 2008 16:14:48
UMNO... don't make this into a political issue.

It the future of our children we are talking about. Stick to English and offer other foreign language as electives... french, german, spainish, russian, mandarin, hindi, tamil.

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written by joeawk, May 14, 2008 16:19:22
Malay nationalist. Stupid, stupider and stupidest. hehehe. As always, the enemy within. Hahaha, Ketuanan Melayu. Cockhead.
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written by Raja Chulan, May 14, 2008 16:21:37
This is another UMNOlintah (Umnoputra leeches) conspiracy to keep the Malay populace in the dark just like mushroom farming, whereby the mushroom is kept in the dark and fed dirt so that it fodder for the Umnolintah.

Umnolintahs do not have the welfare of the Malays let along Malaysian at heart. All they are interested in maintain the patronage of the Melayu desa.

Only the Melayu can bring down Umnolintahs. It time we mobile our energy to open the eyes of the Melayu desa to rise against the Umnolintahs.
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written by mypanida, May 14, 2008 16:23:49
be proficient in both languages.

no wastage in mastering another tongue.

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written by macaufan, May 14, 2008 16:24:14
after 50years still in d mist of English ke? or Bahasa ke?
umno,
ur time is up dah ! is neither english/bahasa for u to decide but umno gonna decide to b pembangkang or tutup kedai !
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written by Cheryl, May 14, 2008 16:25:58
the original source of all the information and knowedge drawn upon is almost entirely from books/documents prepared in English. It is therefore a sheer waste of rakyat's resources (government people, time and money) to undertake the translation, etc., etc., etc.

upon any student pursuing tertiary education, the reference materials are all usually in English and the students are severely handicapped when they are only familiar with foundational terminology in Bahasa Melayu.


Science and Math must be taught in English if Malaysia wants to compete with the world. Problem will not be solved with reversing to teaching these 2 subjects in BM. The government must use all possible resources to train the teachers to be competant to handle these subjects in English and not 'suka suka' change the language! Our kids are not for doing experiments!

Our government always do things according to their whims and fancy. No proper thoughts given before implementation. Just implement and lets see if it works, doesn't work, change. 'Putar balik', senang aje.


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written by freedom lover, May 14, 2008 16:27:01
While I agree the teachings of science and maths must be done in English, the strongest advantage of which is the ability to commercially compete globally, but there are also many advantages for these subjects to be taught in Bahasa Malaysia. The brain drain that is taking place extensively in many developed countries(Singapore included), is one aspect that will be negated in Malaysia if the teachings are conducted in your local national language. The pool of local intellectuals will be larger against tapping from foreign sources, who bring their own set of problems to the economic development of Malaysia.

As a foreigner (ex Malaysian) who loves Malaysia, I am not taking any side on this issue. It is best left to a national referendum for a decision, as this is a very important and critical issue to the progress of Malaysia.
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written by Ken Liew, May 14, 2008 16:27:10
They just like to change this and change that.....

Rojak, you MIX thing togather, But if you rojak with education, what wil it be??
Education takes time to take effect. By changing year by year, it will only pressure our young generation.

BTW is hard to digest the rojak education, now you want the young generation to muntah balik and retake NEW Rojak...?? can they really handle it??

thank you lah, dager kisser, your rojak head are polluting the new generation already, NOW your just making thing worst~!!
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written by cllim123, May 14, 2008 16:29:47
English should be a compulsory language with BM. Chinese should be encouraged as an option as these too are gaining wider commercial use. Respective mother tongues should be encouraged as part of social moral cultural and civil upbringing. We should be encouraging learning and assisting the learning process. Not learning Science and Math in whatever particular language. No point learning them in BM and getting all A's and then find yourself useless in the international commercial world because you don't know English or Chinese or any other commercial language. The whole idea is to equip yourself with useful knowledge.

Hishamkerismudin is only doing his keris waving and telling you that ketuanan Melayu is important but without any real basis. An illiterate Melayu is a useless Melayu, a Melayu who knows only BM is only as useful as in his own backyard. Ketuanan Melayu is a knowledgeable Melayu who speak all useful languages and therefore can leran from all sources but who will also know his own and not forget his roots. The only way to achieve this is hard work. Not from lowering the entry standards into our local Universities.
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written by PeoplePowerPronto, May 14, 2008 16:31:47
One step forward. Two steps back. Cant wait for PR to takeover in Sept. Maybe earlier?
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written by Arubin, May 14, 2008 16:32:47
Well, those nationalists might have a point. The ability to speak only in Malay has actually proven to be useful.

Look at Muhammad Muhammad Taib. The only reason why his butt isn't rotting in an Aussie jail right now is because he no speakee Inglish.

See? It saved his life. It might save yours too.

Say NO to an education in English today!
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written by steviewonger, May 14, 2008 16:34:39
have u guys seen the bn gomen top guns interviewed on air or in tv? they speak in malanglish instead of english and cannot finish one full sentence properly. they couldn't even speak well when reading from a prepared speech written by others. this is the reason of all, if the goonies cannot speak or write well in english, they will drag the rakyat together into the well. that is why they wanted to change everything to the national language. well rakyat, happy hiding in the well.......orang hutan or kampong or gua??????
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written by K W Waran, May 14, 2008 16:37:19

Letting incompetent and unusually boisterous fools to run a ministry as crucial as Education is likened to one Handing Over A Garland To A Monkey's Hands. (An Indian Proverb)

Today many a potential employee gets defeated at the interview stage itself because they can't speeke the Ingleesh properly. Even some qualified teachers can't do so properly. What can one expect from the students that these teachers teach.

When politicians decide based on their self-serving interest, conniving or otherwise, ultimately, everybody suffer the consequences and this definitely affects the Nation too. Hopefully, PR upon assuming the helm of Governance would avoid such pitfalls.

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written by ragingbull, May 14, 2008 16:37:50
In this age and era of globalization, we need our future generation to speak and master English as it is still an important lingua franca so to speak. Let me tell that from my experience in interviewing candidate for job, I'm aghast at their comaand of English as they could hardly be able to converse in proper sentences especially our "ketuanan melayu". Please don't get me wrong that I'm bellilting them but if they want to go far in life and in business, please start brushing up English or else how Malaysia is going to be competitive in business. On a positive note, I've notice that many Malays are sending their children to Chinese school nowadays not to be left out by the booming economy in China. If you want to get into Methodist Boys school, St John or La Salles during the 70's, you would have share my experience as it is very difficult to get placement. But now, I believed there is no problem in getting placement to these school but not Chinese school. Why? Because everyone wants to be in a chinese school. Just my thought that I wanna share today.

Cheers
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written by chin, May 14, 2008 16:38:53
In the intellectual world, the greatest of intellectuals lead.

In the world of the racist, the greatest racist leads. So it must be my race, my religion and my language. In this world UMNO rules.


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written by ralverd, May 14, 2008 16:39:52
My god!! Stop confusing the children with your stupid politically-motivated education system. Choose one language and stick with it! What's wrong with you people?

Read more at my site : http://www.ralverd.com
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written by Concerned Malaysian, May 14, 2008 16:45:14
Dear Malaysian,

Just to share my experience, my school mates in the science stream were mainly malays, who could speak better english than indians or chinese and they are doing very well in their respective career now. One of them is even an English teacher in a local school and he was my source of reference when it comes to English as he comes out top of the class. I think it is a stupid move by some politically inclined people to push back not only the country but also the malays in particular.It is not true that the Malays from the interior will find it difficult to excel in Engligh as they fared better than the non-malays in old school system. Some of my prsent Malays colleagues could speak better english than the non-malays. Why is that so? It would be a wrong move but as usual the BN government would know what is best for the rakyat!

DSAI, pls make the move fastlah...dah lama menunggu....pi mai pi mai tang tu juga........
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written by Hockchew, May 14, 2008 16:47:05
The best education for Malaysia would be:-
Primary education from Std 1 to 6 : Vernacular school :- Malay, Tamil and Chinese
Secondary Form 1 to Form 6 : English
Thereafter all english.

We are a small nation and a trading nation too. This is the only viable alternative. Unity among the races can begin in secondary school

All other form of education are mere political statement. I am sure the leaders knew it and I appeal to them to choose the one that benefit the nation and not for their own political cause.

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written by Tompios, May 14, 2008 16:47:35
I still remember about 30 years ago in Sabah, most students can speak in English and the enviromental of languages among Sabahan are English. Poor for Sabah, you dance with Federal Government in the matter to change your official English language to Bahasa. You were rape your own 20 Agreements. Now, most Dusun's new generation speak Bahasa but in rojak style.

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written by Paikiah, May 14, 2008 16:47:55
Malay is actually a very simple and very less vocabulary 's language.
The gov't is messing up the original taste of this language.
There are a lot terms which is originally in English.
Just b'coz those crazy fanatic donkeys ask to teach in Malay, Those terms would have another version in Malay instead. If the language is like that our culture is the same; Never Change~!
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written by Saint, May 14, 2008 16:49:12
No Mr. Chandra Kumar, I want the subjects to be taught in BM.
Reason, my children were able to go overseas and still cope with the studies because we speak English at home.
My children also got employed immediately because they had better English.
Thus with the NEP "education system" non Malays will only benefit if the science subjects are in BM.
Why worry of UMNOputra decisions when they are pulling down their own people. Let them Hara Hiri.
(On a satirical note only)
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written by Jefus, May 14, 2008 16:51:34
in Astro, there's CCTV9 which gives Chinese news in English? There's several English speaking presenters as well. Why is China not imposing everyone who wants to do business with them speak Chinese? Go figure,....

In the EU, even the French have conceded that English is the lingua franca in business world in Europe,......

thousands of technical books, business books written in english, care to translate them all into BM? we have in the past seen local graduates struggle with incomprehensible English, official letters leaving readers befuddled,.....

why are we revisiting our mistakes? to win votes? think further than that if you are truly Msians, .....

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written by MarchOn, May 14, 2008 16:53:58
gigidnl.... u are a katak dalam tempurung.....
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written by malaysian, May 14, 2008 16:54:56
Chinese and Indians can learn Malay.

But UMNO says that UMNOputras have difficulty learning English so everthing must be done in Malay.

UMNOputras are simply admitting that they are stupid, mental handicaps!
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written by Don Corleone, May 14, 2008 17:04:35
The problem is not the students; the problem is the teachers. 20 years of being taught in BM from primary school to university has meant that the bulk of today's teachers are unable to teach in English. Many schoolchildren are confused when the teacher can only teach in BM, and the yet the textbooks have reverted to English.

Tinkering with the education system is another nail in the coffin, not only of BN, for those of us who are left with no choice but to send children to public schools.
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written by ttsan, May 14, 2008 17:06:40
WOW. Ya. that's a wise decision.English to bahasa, bahasa to English. My sons are overseas now ,safe and sound. The teachers rushing to buy Panadol. The students go to look for tuition and the rest buying English malay dictionary.HA HA HA.
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written by Paikiah, May 14, 2008 17:08:07
If UMNO Putras cannot learn English But all in Malay.
Next time no more sending those idiots go oversea for studies.
No more OXFORD, No More Manchester. Don't disgrace Oxford in M'sia Parliament.
No wonder KJ don't understand RPK's phrase, I bet his English sucks.

"Let's send Altantuya's Murderer to HELL"
This phrase has nothing gonna do with GOD.
I know you are stupid so keep it to yourself don't drag GOD into it.
GOD definitely, undoubtly can understand.
BUT you KJ under-can-stand or not I don't wish to know.
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written by krepot, May 14, 2008 17:08:11
Let me add:

Can someone please take up a book translated by the Institute of Translation Malaysia Berhad (ITNM) and read a chapter or two, of Science/Math/Engineering books. It is a joke!

The quality of translation is poor, the choice of words are also poor and worst still, the translation are normally done by people who are not from that particular field. They don't have many well versed translators.

I will not blame ITNM solely, as it is not easy to find Math/Science/Engineering words. Bahasa Malaysia is a very new language and in the absence of the right word, it raises problem.

How can we ever excel if we can't even comprehend the subject. Ditching English in Science/Math/Engineering will set us back 50 years, that I can assure you. Malaysia will never be a global player and our scientist and engineers will struggle to be competitive, let alone finding jobs.
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written by michaelT, May 14, 2008 17:13:23
Education is all so important but somehow the country do not have a sound education policy so to speak. They are subject to keep changing with every minister. The poor students are the affected ones. What is so bad having science and mathematics in English medium. The student can improve their English proficiency. If BN wants to get back the Malay support and unity this is the wrong application. It is better for them to be people friendly and transparent then to meddle with a sound educatuion policy.Have some good thoughts into this drastic change. Don't tell me Jawi is coming to be compulsory soon. The more BN punishes the quicker they vanish
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written by wood, May 14, 2008 17:13:50
Case No 1
I have got candidates (Malay,Indian and Chinese) attending an interview and politely asked can I speak in Bahasa and worse still some in Mandarin? What do you want me to answer ? Wanting to be polite , I answered YES you may !

Case No 2
I have got foreign buyers coming to visit our factory wanting to buy our products. They started to speak English ! And if I have only staff ( like in Case 1 ) representing our company attending to this foreign buyer and who can only speak English , this local staff will have no choice but to politely ask the foreign buyer, " Can you speak in Bahasa or maybe Mandarin??? "

Can we imagine what is happpening here???? How can we compete with others ???
How are we going to bring in FDI ? Is it a waste to learn another language? Is it wrong ? Are we sleeping on the job ? It is either God must be crazy or We must be crazy !!!!
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written by La Cha Mau, May 14, 2008 17:18:34
Hey get a grip on yourselve Mr. Chandra Kumar. Who says our English is no good. Didn't you know that we are still the Government in power We will continue to remain in power. So don't you ever doubt.
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written by orangdunia, May 14, 2008 17:21:17
I too support the teaching of Maths & Science in English but before everyone goes overboard knocking UMNO/BN on this matter, they should know that Pakatan Rakyat (or at least Anwar Ibrahim) also wants to change the medium of instruction for these subjects into Bahasa Malaysia.

I heard it directly from him on the night of April 14 at Kampung Baru

I agree with him on many issues and want him to become my PM, but this is one area I think he is wrong about.

Why must it always be a dichotomy? Why can't we Malaysians be good in more than one language? Singapore (yes, that pesky neighbour of ours) understood the need for English years ago and see where they are now. On my trips there I have met many Malays who speak excellent English. It didn't appear to harm their command of the Malay language.
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written by libau, May 14, 2008 17:22:00
Oh my God...Why?
Don't punished when your UMNO/BN YB's weak in English..
Why move backward when you are in front? Do you want our Next generation as stupid as your YB's..I am agree with add another language as and alternative subject rather than teaching Math/Science back in Malay. Or why not offer the Tamil and Chinese language in all school?
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written by Delima25, May 14, 2008 17:26:20
The attempt to revert to BM for the teaching of Science and Maths is just a subtle way by the demonic powers to keep a hold on the people. As we are well aware, most of the postings on the net are in English and with the increasing fluency in the language, more of our people, Malays, Chinese, Indians will be using the Internet to check on the true version of the Malaysian news, news that has not been adulterated by our official print media.
This harping on the disadvantage of the rural Malays when it comes to the mastering of English is also a lame excuse. What about the other Malaysians who are also staying in the rural areas. If they are actually lagging behind in the command of English, we should be questioning our Hang Keris who should be responsible for ensuring that all Malaysians are able to use the internationally accepted language. Any attempt to revert to BM is just an admission of his failure as Minister of Education.
When we were using English way back before some smart ass decided to change the medium of education to BM, Malaysian education was at par with the best in the Commonwealth but we are rapidly sliding into oblivion whereby our Malaysian universities are now competing for the lower rankings in the world standing.
Spending money on a total revamp of our education system is a priority in which we should be getting good and dedicated teachers. Money spent on futile pursuits like hitching a ride to space etc should be shot down and used for educating the mass. Be realistic about our goals and let us use English as a tool to make sure we succeed.
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written by lalachong, May 14, 2008 17:28:48
I was born in 1981.. when i was 7, i attended a SK school. Education was in Malay... then in secondary school, i was in VI. Education was in Malay... then I entered Form 6, Education was in Malay... then... I entered college, uni, work... gosh, Engrish!!! It was a good thing I spoke some Engrand at home, else i would have difficulty coping with the 180 degrees language change. I truly believe that the children nowadays are very lucky to be educated in English... mana tau... good things do not last long...

From this you may also see that:
before 1980s - education in English...
era 1980s to 2000s (era Mahathir) - education in Malay...
2000s till now - education in English...
2008 to ???? - education in Malay...

I mean... cmon... make up your mind!!! Do not play with the education of our youth for the benefit of your political game!!!
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written by nafis, May 14, 2008 17:30:11
start 'em young

if the parents are not proficient in english, then find a kindy with english as a medium

and also, the teachers who are responsible should sharpen their skills too

kids are kids, their minds are like sponges [and please don't separate rural kids as being slower than urban kids]

it's the quality of teaching that ensures children to get a good grasp of ANY language

oh yeah they are good in making policies, but never good in implementing them

never mind which subject has to be in english, kalau boleh Pendidikan Islam pun lagi bagus in english, so that when debates come between muslims and nonmuslims [who only understand english] then what a wonderful way it would be if this generation could "dakwah" in first-class english?
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written by cruzeiro, May 14, 2008 17:41:12
Dear Chandra,
While I agree with teaching of both these subjects in English, I seriously doubt it is advisable to restrict it to one language.
There is no reason why we cannot have streaming - English and Malay - to serve both sides.
Using the excuse of language of science/ maths is lame at best.
There is no reason why Malay cannot produce excellence - it is only the culture of "Ketuanan Melayu" that is destroying the Malay cultural, linguistic and scientific excellence, aided by BTN.

Science aren't maths aren't "languages" as such - they are more of concepts that needs to be taught to students.
The language in which these ideas or thinking skills are taught, don't make that much of a difference. (Of course it is an advantage if one needs to speak at International settings or go to foreign universities or learn newer technologies- but that's all).
At these elementary levels Malaysian education, the Malay language is equipped well enough.

Just look at nations like Germany, France, Japan, India, Italy, China and Russia - did they need English at all for "science or maths"?
No. They only subscribe to it when it is an added advantage.
What you need is Meritocracy and "sound culture" and Ethics/ philosophy- these would produce excellence.
Not the medium of instruction.
Not Ketuanan Melayu, not NEP.
Not cheating. (Go figure what I mean)

That the Malays performed well under the "British" system, was because of these factors, and not the Queen's English.
Get your facts right, Chandra.

I dread the thought of lousy teachers who can only articulate their thoughts in Malay, teaching concepts in a language they can barely speak - believe me when I say that I have spoken to some of them.

I for one learned everything in Malay, and I did well in pure sciences, despite the fact that my Chinese teacher couldn't speak Malay that well - he knew how to articulate his ideas though, and was dedicated/disciplined/funny.

Though my Science & Maths weren't that "great" (probably due to laziness), I got by just fine - just as the maths/science whiz kids did, when we started our pre-U in English elsewhere ...... and the real successful ones were the ones with the best "living skills". Not always the "smartest".
The one with the best EQ, not IQ.

Don't use that old man TDM's infantile logic as your guiding principles, Chandra - you'll go astray. His logic is often quite perverted.
He only did it, so as to make excuses for his failures (and to appear to be "revolutionary" and "visionary" - that's all.
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written by cruzeiro, May 14, 2008 17:42:16
typo-

Science aren't & maths aren't "languages" as such -
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written by jasonsel, May 14, 2008 17:46:21
all i can say is ..... smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by zviivz, May 14, 2008 17:47:20
Many of you may have read about this joke before:

hardware= barangkeras
software= baranglembut
joystick= barangria
PLUG AND PLAY= CUCUK DAN MAIN
port= lubang
server= pelayan
client= pelanggan

Try to translate this:

"That server gives a plug and play service to the clients using either hardware or software joystick. The joystick goes into the port of the client."


TRANSLATED:

"Pelayan itu beri kepada pelanggannya layanan cucuk dan main dengan mempergunakan barangria jenis keras atau lembut. Barangria itu dimasukkan ke dalam lubang pelanggan." ????????.....

You get the point...
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written by TaiLow, May 14, 2008 17:56:14
UMNO Boleh! it's much more easier to control stupid people than the smart, for that we have to start from scholl level, if you cant beat them, confuse them..aha..make the stupid and we shall conquer another fifty years. UMNO MEMANG BOLEH!!
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written by RitchieLow, May 14, 2008 17:57:19
Statistics of the efficacy of the English-Malay as medium of instruction in a flip flop fashion over the lat 50 years ? There should be ample data to derive at a decision.

Why are such all encompassing and important decisions based on political motives and other flimsy reasons if there is any other reason at all. Why can't it be made more objectively with backing empirical data ?
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written by POKKU, May 14, 2008 17:58:52
We talk about PR taking over the government,

We talk about Pakatan Rakyat being the champion of the rakyat.

But we talk about teaching maths and science in English

Please remember that the english speaking people are not the only rakyat of this country. When we have the luxury of having our children studying in the best school in town, there are rakyat who are lucky enough that the are school in his kampong that he can send his children to.

We have in our cities, tuition center where we can send our kids to further enhance their learning or to a lesser extent, we can ourself coach our children, but to a bigger portion of the rakyat in some rural area, when the teacher who suppose to teach them does not know english, nor does their parents, sibling, ketua kampong, imam masjid, kedai runcit owner nor their jiran. Then who do they turn to for help with their studies?

In your letter you write about your rural Malay friends in RMC. But RMC is a boarding secondary school. This people are the selected cream of their school after they have been thought 6 years of English. Mind you, primary school student can even pronounce the words 'eyes' let alone other science and mathematic jargon their teacher can even pronounce correctly.

You seem to idolise TDM. But TDM is Bad News to most PR supporter.

Almost every other day he will confess of making mistakes. he confess of making mistakes in choosing AAB as his successor, now GOM also said he is making mistake with the judiciary and we all know the biggest mistake is what he does to DSAI.

Maybe the solution to this is if we could revert to what it is before. Where we gave choice to the rakyat whether they want to sent their children to English school, Malay school, Chinese school, Tamil school or Arabic school. That way, when you decide to send you children to which school, you know what language your children will thought in.

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written by Thesinner, May 14, 2008 18:05:34
Plug and Play means 'Cucuk dan Main" LOL./ what the... smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by clarity, May 14, 2008 18:06:55
First thry send our children to the killer camps and get them killed. Now they messed about the brains of our children by reverting back on forth every year or so to the language of teaching issue. By the way a lot has been brought to their attention regardng the camps so their cannot plead ignorance. Next time another kid dies we can charge them for pre medidated murder. Lets send a petition to the HN. They are very strict on the treatment of children.
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written by kanokporn, May 14, 2008 18:15:50
WORLD RANK UNIVERSITY ACCORDING TO WEBOMETRICS 2008

1065 UNIVERSITI SAINS MALAYSIA
1087 UNIVERSITI TEKNOLOGI MALAYSIA
1155 MULTIMEDIA UNIVERSITY
1236 UNIVERSITI PUTRA MALAYSIA
1357 UNIVERSITY KEBANGSAAN
1381 UNIVERSITY OF MALAYA
1709 INTERNATIONAL ISLAMIC UNIVERSITY MALAYSIA
1997 UNIVERSITI UTARA MALAYSIA
2022 UNIVERSITI TEKNOLOGI MARA
3316 UNIVERSITI MALAYSIA SABAH
3346 UNIVERSITI TENAGA NASIONAL
3527 MONASH UNIVERSITY MALAYSIA
3636 UNIVERSITI TEKNOLOGI PETRONAS
3721 UNIVERSITI MALAYSIA SARAWAK
3968 UNIVERSITI MALAYSIA PERLIS
4059 ASIA PACIFIC INSTITUTE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
4692 UNIVERSITI PENDIDIKAN SULTAN IDRIS
4770 UNIVERSITI TUN ABDUL RAZAK

I HEARD FROM A VERY RELIABLE SOURCE THAT THE CONSORTIUM UNIVERSITIES HARVARD OXFORD CAMBRIDGE CALTECH AND MIT WILL BE CHANGING THEIR MEDIUM OF INSTRUCTION OF TEACHING FROM ENGLISH TO BBAHASA MALAYSIA BY END OF THIS YEAR, so dont'worry too much la. if you are not happy with the ranking ask umno researchists and statisticians.
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written by varvoom, May 14, 2008 18:27:16
Can someone explain to me why bahasa melayu stammer e.g., orang-orang, lain-lain, sama-sama, Isu-isu, kelima-lima, masing-masing,kira-kira,ubat-ubat,mangsa-mangsa,hidup-hidup, mana-mana, apa itu? I better stop giving more examples before this stammering or stuttering gets to me and I have to attend a speech therapist to get me out of this, correct, correct! This is a genuine enquiry.
The answer may help explain why we need English as a tool to understand subjects.
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written by zviivz, May 14, 2008 18:45:13
1065 UNIVERSITI SAINS MALAYSIA
1087 UNIVERSITI TEKNOLOGI MALAYSIA
1155 MULTIMEDIA UNIVERSITY
1236 UNIVERSITI PUTRA MALAYSIA
1357 UNIVERSITY KEBANGSAAN

.... wah .. can buy 4D already lor ..
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written by DJH, May 14, 2008 18:46:17
I speakeh no inglish..... hmmm, who can that be? smilies/wink.gif
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written by varvoom, May 14, 2008 19:08:01
One more thing which I had notice, how come all those top-notch BN people and their cronies send their children to overseas schools for their tertiary schooling? Oh, some stay behind but they go to international schools. Yah it’s OK if they have to go overseas Uni but for form 5 and below? Don’t they believe in their own educational system that they had set-up themselves?
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written by varvoom, May 14, 2008 19:13:49
Hishamkerismudin! declare where about are your children being educated?
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written by expat70, May 14, 2008 19:17:19
Although it is important for Malaysians to be conversant in their mother-tongue, be it Malay, Chinese, Tamil or whatever, it is also important for them to master the English language to perform well in the age of globalization.

To help promote proficiency in the English language for all Malaysians, I think, for starters, RTM and other commercial TV channels should have English or BM subtitles. Also Parliament debates, road traffic signs, official forms or instructions (with exception of the income tax returnn forms for obvious reasons) etc, etc, should have both BM and English.

This is a "two way sword". For those who are not proficient in BM, they can read the subtitles and understand what is being said. And for those who are not proficient in English, they can read the BM subtitles.

I would advocate that the Education Ministry should actively encourage and support the teaching of mother tongue at schools for all. We are in the Information Age, it is important for us to be informed of what is going on around us rather than the necessity of indepth knowledge of any particular language.


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written by rahzabob, May 14, 2008 19:19:39
Maybe to some, the English Language is no big deal but to me it is an utmost importance. However, if you want to have our kids to be able to grasp English in Math and Science, they should be allowed to understand it. Unless we want a Govt definition of students: just follow word by word,don't ask, just follow. This will surely doomed our kids if the usage of English is just limited to this two subjects.

I went through primary, secondary school in total Bahasa Malaysia and I live then in a kampung but still, I am able to sit comfortably among my foreign peers or even in the corporate sector as I am able to speak and write well in English. I was plain lucky to be among my non-Malays friends whom told me that if you can build the confidence to speak in English without fear of misspelling and grammar, you will excel in life. But what about others? I've seen many university honor grads can't even speak in English.

The big hu-ha on English to be used in Math and Science will not be efficient if the kids are not conversant in that language. IF the government is serious on using English, have at least better English teachers and a better education system. You supposed to make the kids to feel comfortable to speak, not just be a subject for the day. What will the kids learn if they just fill the blanks without understanding what they filling it for? Workbooks which only definitely benefit the supplier but does not deliver the education needed for the kids to learn.

Once the kids can grasp the language, the rest will come easy. As for right now, I felt pity for my kids and their peers as they still "malu" to speak in English. Ouch.
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written by rahzabob, May 14, 2008 19:22:36
hey wait the minute, I only know math and science in Malay but what the hell, I can still write and speak English LOLZ Morale of the story: Let the kids understand the language rather than forced something to the kids. It surely catch on to some, but the rest will lose out.
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written by expat70, May 14, 2008 19:31:29
Agree rahzabob.

I have studied with Iranian, Iraqi, Jodanian and other nationalities whai I was in the UK, whose medium of instruction in their education at home was not English language. However, these guys are brillant when it comes to pure maths and science. Take my hat for them.

Language is so beautiful when one is able to articulate it correctly and properly. So why do we limit our capability to learn???
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written by mikewang, May 14, 2008 19:41:18
If you don't have English skills, how are you going to survive in this globalised world ?

We don't have a Malay diaspora large enough nor rich enough to enable us to complete in this world on the strength of BM alone.

Please be practical and realistic !
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written by panca, May 14, 2008 20:18:17
Perhaps that's one of the crucial way to produce good standard english speaking student that umno is so proud of!
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written by mystique, May 14, 2008 20:22:34
why does it have to be one or the other. our education system should push for excellence in both languages.

Although, I understand the importance of speaking and writing English well. As a young Malaysian Chinese, I appreciate my national language, Bahasa Malaysia as well.

I am glad i was groomed to master MY national language from young. It is mine as a Malaysian, and it is my identity in the world. In a crowd of people from all over the world, the only language I can claim as mine, as a Malaysian is Bahasa Malaysia.

You guys are so crap. You talk about wanting to be a Malaysian Malaysian. And you reject your national language!

Try asking the French which is more important. French or English.
All around the world people treasure their home language but we Malaysians are such a sorry state because we measure each other by how well we speak 'English'

Sure, we need to up the standard of English. But Bahasa Malaysia should not never ever lose prominence in all our hearts and in our education!!!!

Have some dignity!
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written by ONGJJJ, May 14, 2008 20:25:33
I attended a talk by Jim Rogers who mentioned 19th century belonged to UK, 20th century to US, and 21st century to China, and to walk the talk, he has migrated his family to Singapore so that his two daughters can learn mandarin to better equip them for tommorow. Wake up laaa, why so bodoh, go back to Malay for sciences & maths is 2 giant steps backward. I was the 1st batch under the failed all malay regime started in 1970...SPR, SPm and STPM...my future was almost "hancur" by such myopic policy, and of course NEP out "quota-ed" me from public university from reading Medicine because all given to matriculation students. So I am "brain-drained" to overseas laaa. Stop destroying our children's future with your retarded pressure to move back to malay.
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written by hanzz, May 14, 2008 21:27:34
bla bla bla...the chinese & even french or other europeans are doing more businesses using english language....but please please please think...do the quality of each language being spoken by each respective people being downgraded or compromised...I DON'T THINK SO....instead we Malaysian focus too much on the English language while sacrificing the use and quality of the National Language, there comes the bahasa rojak..manglish..and the crazy subtitles on tv.

is it too much for us to ask for both?.....uphold the national language while learning and mastering the English language at the sametime?
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written by ipunkedude, May 14, 2008 21:29:14
My view is that whilst Malay is essential to promote a sense of belonging,if it results in lowering the English standard, then I think Malaysia will be in trouble. Year ago, we could get away with it because within the region, we were the only country which population had a resonably good command of the language which helps in the service sector. But these days, with India and China providing millions of English proficient workers, how do we compete? Cheap labour? The next source of domestic workers worldwide may be from Malaysia.
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written by SUV, May 14, 2008 22:03:53
symbols,n sains penuh dgn maths n one must have ability to explore/experiment/investigate..both require creative power!!sheeh..seelah d world..japonese teach math n sains in wat bahasa?frech wallah tech sains n math in swahili ke?and the great usa stand where in maths olympiad?china and iran always in top 5,top 10 in math olypiad..d same goes 2 the ex soviet bloks..those countries teach math n sains in engles kah?
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written by SUV, May 14, 2008 22:05:48
haiyaa i had diffikulti logging in lah..all i can say is language has lil got 2 do maths n sains la..
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written by kupas, May 14, 2008 22:17:38
As far as I am concerned - all our children should be taught in English - all subjects so that they can compete on level playing field with the children of say, Najib; anwar ibrahim; and whoever - PR or BN. English is the language of commerce. In order to be competitive - world wide - one must be able to converse in English. There is no two ways about it. This is also the reason why the who and who in Malaysia sent their children overseas. When they come back to Malaysia they all become our bosses because they can speak english with the slang. For the last 30 yrs when our schools introduced BM as the medium of instruction - the end result - our graduates lack the confidence to converse in English. No matter how creative they are - they would be forever be trailing behind those with overseas' education. This has got to stop!!!! I am sure the BN govt is going to turn a deaf ear to this as this would ensure that their children would be future masters in Malaysia.
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written by SUV, May 14, 2008 22:19:04
International Mathematical Olympiad 2007 (Hanoi, Vietnam) Country Scores, Alphabetical Order
Position Country Score Team Size Score on Question Number of Medals
1 2 3 4 5 6 Gold Silver Bronze
58= Albania [ALB] 59 6 3 4 0 42 10 0 0 0 1
47 Argentina [ARG] 75 6 21 8 3 35 8 0 0 1 1
48= Armenia [ARM] 73 6 3 13 0 41 16 0 0 1 1
22 Australia [AUS] 110 6 28 20 2 42 17 1 0 1 4
42 Austria [AUT] 80 6 29 9 0 30 11 1 0 1 3
52= Azerbaijan [AZE] 69 6 5 29 0 28 7 0 0 0 3
80 Bangladesh [BAN] 31 5 1 5 0 23 2 0 0 0 0
19 Belarus [BLR] 119 6 41 16 2 41 18 1 1 1 4
45 Belgium [BEL] 78 6 25 4 2 38 9 0 0 0 3
93 Bolivia [BOL] 2 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0
52= Bosnia-Herzegovina [BIH] 69 6 10 13 2 42 2 0 0 1 0
24 Brazil [BRA] 106 6 26 24 1 42 11 2 0 2 3
9= Bulgaria [BUL] 149 6 34 35 4 42 32 2 2 3 1
82 Cambodia [CAM] 26 4 3 1 0 21 1 0 0 0 0
27 Canada [CAN] 98 6 32 21 0 41 4 0 0 1 3
92 Chile [CHI] 4 4 0 2 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
2 China [CHN] 181 6 36 42 17 41 42 3 4 2 0
30 Colombia [COL] 93 6 33 6 2 40 12 0 0 1 3
72 Costa Rica [CRC] 36 5 3 10 0 21 2 0 0 0 1
46 Croatia [CRO] 76 6 22 8 0 42 4 0 0 0 2
87 Cuba [CUB] 16 1 1 7 0 7 1 0 0 0 1
69 Cyprus [CYP] 41 6 6 11 0 22 2 0 0 0 0
40 Czech Republic [CZE] 82 6 34 1 0 40 7 0 0 0 5
65 Denmark [DEN] 50 6 24 4 3 16 1 2 0 0 1
74= Ecuador [ECU] 34 6 1 8 0 25 0 0 0 0 1
74= El Salvador [ESA] 34 4 1 4 0 27 2 0 0 0 0
57 Estonia [EST] 64 6 10 11 0 41 2 0 0 0 1
61 Finland [FIN] 55 6 15 8 2 20 10 0 0 1 0
43= France [FRA] 79 6 28 11 1 25 12 2 1 0 2
26 Georgia [GEO] 102 6 31 17 1 37 16 0 1 1 1
15 Germany [GER] 132 6 33 15 5 42 29 8 1 3 1
33 Greece [GRE] 89 6 9 26 1 41 12 0 0 1 3
12= Hong Kong [HKG] 143 6 33 42 2 42 24 0 0 5 1
16 Hungary [HUN] 129 6 38 28 10 42 10 1 0 5 0
73 Iceland [ISL] 35 6 11 2 0 21 1 0 0 0 0
25 India [IND] 103 6 19 23 3 42 16 0 0 3 0
52= Indonesia [INA] 69 6 13 10 1 35 10 0 0 1 0
12= Iran [IRN] 143 6 33 29 2 42 32 5 1 3 2
63= Ireland [IRL] 51 6 12 6 0 32 1 0 0 0 1
50= Israel [ISR] 71 6 31 1 0 35 4 0 0 0 3
21 Italy [ITA] 116 6 31 20 1 42 14 8 1 1 3
6= Japan [JPN] 154 6 42 42 4 42 22 2 2 4 0
28= Kazakhstan [KAZ] 95 6 23 14 2 42 14 0 0 1 3
67 Kyrgyzstan [KGZ] 43 5 3 8 0 25 7 0 0 0 1
60 Latvia [LAT] 58 6 18 2 0 35 3 0 0 0 0
88= Liechtenstein [LIE] 14 2 3 1 0 7 3 0 0 0 1
31 Lithuania [LTU] 92 6 31 9 1 40 10 1 1 0 2
74= Luxembourg [LUX] 34 3 3 3 0 21 7 0 0 0 1
48= Macau [MAC] 73 6 13 15 0 42 3 0 0 1 1
55 Macedonia [MKD] 68 6 13 17 1 33 4 0 0 0 3
74= Malaysia [MAS] 34 6 6 5 0 22 1 0 0 0 1
37= Mexico [MEX] 86 6 13 26 0 41 5 1 0 0 4
20 Moldova [MDA] 118 6 34 11 1 41 24 7 0 3 2
34= Mongolia [MGL] 88 6 16 17 0 42 13 0 0 2 1
86 Montenegro [MON] 17 3 1 2 0 12 2 0 0 0 0
81 Morocco [MAR] 28 6 3 5 0 17 3 0 0 0 0
56 Netherlands [NED] 65 6 17 6 0 37 5 0 0 0 1
50= New Zealand [NZL] 71 6 26 7 2 34 2 0 0 0 3
85 Nigeria [NGR] 20 6 1 6 0 13 0 0 0 0 0
8 North Korea [PRK] 151 6 37 35 1 40 37 1 1 4 0
43= Norway [NOR] 79 6 30 8 4 30 7 0 0 1 1
78= Pakistan [PAK] 32 6 5 5 0 18 4 0 0 0 1
78= Paraguay [PAR] 32 4 7 2 0 21 2 0 0 0 0
32 Peru [PER] 91 6 19 12 0 41 19 0 0 1 2
84 Philippines [PHI] 21 6 1 5 0 14 1 0 0 0 0
18 Poland [POL] 122 6 36 16 3 40 26 1 1 2 2
62 Portugal [POR] 52 6 15 2 0 31 4 0 0 0 1
90 Puerto Rico [PUR] 7 3 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0
11 Romania [ROM] 146 6 36 25 4 42 39 0 1 4 1
1 Russia [RUS] 184 6 42 42 12 42 37 9 5 1 0
91 Saudi Arabia [KSA] 5 4 0 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
23 Serbia [SRB] 107 6 22 23 9 34 18 1 1 0 4
36 Singapore [SIN] 87 6 31 5 2 40 9 0 0 0 5
37= Slovakia [SVK] 86 6 29 17 0 33 7 0 0 0 4
39 Slovenia [SLO] 85 6 22 17 2 41 3 0 0 0 5
68 South Africa [RSA] 42 6 12 5 0 23 2 0 0 0 0
3= South Korea [KOR] 168 6 38 41 9 42 36 2 2 4 0
66 Spain [ESP] 48 6 13 7 0 23 5 0 0 0 2
83 Sri Lanka [SRI] 25 6 0 3 0 22 0 0 0 0 0
41 Sweden [SWE] 81 6 40 8 1 28 3 1 0 0 4
58= Switzerland [SUI] 59 6 13 4 1 35 5 1 0 0 1
9= Taiwan [TPE] 149 6 41 38 2 42 24 2 2 3 1
71 Tajikistan [TJK] 37 6 3 7 0 23 4 0 0 0 1
14 Thailand [THA] 133 6 42 31 3 42 14 1 1 3 2
70 Trinidad and Tobago [TRI] 39 6 1 6 2 29 1 0 0 0 0
17 Turkey [TUR] 124 6 25 30 3 42 24 0 1 2 2
63= Turkmenistan [TKM] 51 6 9 2 0 36 4 0 0 0 0
6= Ukraine [UKR] 154 6 31 42 3 42 29 7 3 1 2
28= United Kingdom [UNK] 95 6 32 10 2 42 7 2 1 0 3
5 United States of America [USA] 155 6 41 36 6 42 26 4 2 3 1
34= Uzbekistan [UZB] 88 6 7 30 0 42 9 0 0 1 3
88= Venezuela [VEN] 14 3 3 2 0 7 2 0 0 0 0
3= Vietnam [VIE] 168 6 41 42 10 41 34 0 3 3 0
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written by PangurBan, May 14, 2008 22:19:21
Bollocks.

You can't hope to equip our students with excellent English language skills just by teaching them science and maths in that language. They'll come out of it all just as tongue-tied, perhaps not just in English.

Here's the solution:

1 Get rid of all those goons running this country. They're the ones who've been suppressing the development of a healthy intellectual culture. Without this, let's not begin to think of academic excellence. Or of competing on equal terms with other countries on the the global stage for that matter.

2 Implement an English language teaching programme that actually works. One that produces students who can communicate effectively in that language. For that to come about, we need first of all to produce teachers who can speak and write correct English. For this to materialise, we need excellent teacher training programmes. Yes, I am implying they don't exist at the moment.

3 Teach our students not science or maths, but subjects like history, sociology and politics in English. Indeed, it will do them no harm to study English literature. These are subjects in which students are required to formulate arguments, to discuss issues, and to articulate opinions. In short, these are all activities that will bring into play the full resources of a language. Science and maths just don't do that.

4 Above all, make our students read. Make them read, and read and read and read. Not trashy stuff of course. Make them read Shakespeare, make them read Milton, Pope, Wordsworth, Dickens. Make them read great literary and philosophical works to stretch their minds and expand their linguistic horizons.
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written by Thesinner, May 14, 2008 22:22:23
mystique,

I guess for a French, Italian or German, he or she doesn't care much about the English language because his or her country either at par or better when it comes to POWER so to speak. Samething goes to country like Japan, China and Russia. But we have to admit among languages that we know of, English is the most accepted as the Universal Language(forgive me if I'm wrong). So why must we deny our future Generation to master the Language??? Please be open minded a bit larr smilies/wink.gifWe have nothing to loose but so much to gain!

eskius me, me spekie littel englis smilies/grin.gif
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written by Thesinner, May 14, 2008 22:26:30
sorry typo...nothing to lose. smilies/wink.gif
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written by yellow7, May 14, 2008 22:27:53
I come from German I speak Germany. I got my degree from the University of Perak Turf Club.

"Malaysia is the center of the Universe" as the UMNO Politicians’ point of view.

Belum boleh berdiri lagi mahu drive F1 racing cars. Not that we can't, but what's the point? What are we trying to prove? To whom? The world? Think again.
Do we have the endurance to maintain the pace? Do we have the mentality (mental power) to maintain the challenge?
Equestrian is the sports of the Aristocrats,’ Kaki pendek lagi mahu naik kuda' macham aristocrat. Pegi 5 Star/6 Star Hotel, bila ke-tandas, chebok degan ayer dan mess up the Restroom. Bila makan di 'high class' restaurant, table manners pun tidak ada, makan dengan mulut terbuka (chup-chap, chup-chap macham makan taik). Sama, orang-orang China, Melayu, India etc,etc.... Malaysian???
Just learn the best way to get things right FIRST before setting the example.
I understand, Bahasa Melayu is important, we are Malaysians, we need an Identity, we want people across the world to know we are Malaysians. We can be the best, the smartest, the people that sets Example, others want to follow.
But, don't rush in 'half cocked', but when we are good and ready.
****ing UMNO politicians, Hishamuddin, don't kill the children's education. It's their livelihood, they need all the education and knowledge that they can 'sponge' off the world. And by being proficient in English is the best way they can 'sponge' off the best knowledge and solutions, to eliminate problems, and bring about opportunities for our country.
Don't be selfish, think of the children of Malaysia. Don't implement policies with bad intentions, to hurt the other races of Malaysia. That is wrong, the Malays will also be hurt in the process. Just to play on Malay sentiments, to win votes???
Comon, bloody grow up, don't be selfish.
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written by SUV, May 14, 2008 22:30:48
According to Lemke (1990), science is a language that needs to be taught so that students can learn to "talk in science" just like any other foreign language: "Talking science means observing, describing, comparing, classifying, analysing, discussing, hypothesizing, theorizing, questioning, challenging, arguing, designing experiments, deciding, concluding, generalizing, reporting,...in and through the language of science" (p.1).

http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/pathways/smt/dual.htm
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written by AsamLaksa, May 14, 2008 22:31:59
Yes, very clever, eh, to blame the lack of English skill for the lack of science and maths? You are still not addressing the issue that the rot is the education system and not the language you use.

The BN government are doing things without any long term plan. It's not only the standard of science and maths that is in question but the whole lot, Bahasa Malayu, English, History, Geopraphy, Arts, etc..

I'm not saying English is not important but rather it alone will not sort out the problem and you are placing too much importance on it. How many of you went under Chinese or Malay medium in science and maths and have a major problem with reading up English academic texts? There's not much of a problem here and never has been.

What Malaysia should do is to grasp the essence of what makes science and maths education successful in Singapore, Japan, USA, China, South Korea, Germany, etc.. They will tell you that it's not about what language you use. USA is a fine example where there is a rojak of languages in their schools and the education revolves around what is the most effective way to get the message across rather than insistence on a particular language because most of the academic text is in that particular language.

But here is Malaysia people still bodoh want to solve the problem with hedging around the real issues. What is lacking is a sound education system and no matter what language you use to teach in a crap system you will still get crap.

Firstly redesign the education system by getting rid of rote learning. This is the main reason why some students can't cope when they enter university. They are so used to be told the facts and where to find them that when they are left in their own devices, they get lost. How many Malaysians have ever academically criticise anything before they enter university?

Then teach the students to question the facts. Just because textbook say so doesn't mean it's true. Nurture them in an environment where they can challenge ideas so that they can expand their knowledge and skills. I remember the time I came up with my own method to sort out maths problems and the teacher gave me a look without able to explain the drawback of my method. Or the time in STPM chemistry practical exam where you are suppossed to follow a list of steps to find the composition of the salt but all the tests recommended were not definitive. So I saw question 2 in the same exam using the chemical I needed to get a definitive test which I used to confirm my suspicion. It's not rocket science, it's being flexible and think outside the box. But this is lacking in formal education and also in the tuition centres which teaches you how to pass exams but not so much in knowledge or skills.

I took an English tuition during primary years, but it was like a play setting just 2 of us and the teacher. It wasn't about scoring As in exams but rather I had so much fun playing scrabble like games, creative essay writing, discussing what story books I read, even borrowing story books, pronunciation practice, etc.. To me this is what tuitions should be like, to expand skills, not just score As. The As came as a side-effect as I developed better language skills. To me this is how the education policy should be like, to expand skills, not fulfil numbers.

The government policy of wanting more engineers, doctors and scientists should be questioned. Malaysia are not short of them but rather don't know how to fully utilise them, disproportionately place them or simply don't give enough incentive to work locally. The Malaysian education policy heavily favours creating technicians who can perform the tasks but do not promote R&D. Where Malaysia really fail is to create more academics and thinkers who will shape policies and lead in R&D. Instead the government has been filled with policy makers not suited in making policies. So you get your crap.

Wanna know why academics and researchers stay in particular countries? It's the national policies.

So, yeah go make more noise about teaching maths and science in English if it makes you feel happier but when the results are no better what are you going to blame next? Don't be bodoh, don't be blind. You have the chance to sort things out in the bud early or you can choose to play around the edges. You know where I stand.
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written by cheekhiaw, May 14, 2008 22:37:07
WHY WORRY? GOT SOCIAL CONTRACT..

Why are you people so worried about people wanting to use Malay for instruction in schools?

Don't you people know that those fellas have a global social contract with the rest of the world to let them be the 'tuans' with special rights to anything they want?

If not, our education minister can wave his crooked knives at them and teach them some of his culture.

Only fools don't know how great that is...

xxx
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written by SUV, May 14, 2008 22:37:07
i used to know one english pukka who used to hafal formuals smilies/shocked.gif..
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written by expat70, May 14, 2008 22:38:13
" You guys are so crap. You talk about wanting to be a Malaysian Malaysian. And you reject your national language! "

Dear Mystique,

I am sorry you have mixed up the issue. One of being patriotic and the other being realistic.

Mastering the English is a necessity in the age of globalization. English is an international language of trade, commerce and communication. Whilst it is agreeable that the National Language is for national pride and should be promoted, mastery of the English language, like it or not, is still an important lingua franca so to speak. Hence also, mastery the language of trade and commerce does not make one less partiotic.

Malaysians are proudly known to be multi lingual throughout the world. Most speak BM, English, Mandarin or Tamil, together with other dialects. Tell you this, Malaysians are the envy of some of our neighbouring countries.

Therefore, my question is - why shackle our minds? Continue to be multi lingual yet retain your patriotism.



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written by LACOBRA, May 14, 2008 22:51:50
Lets face it, UMNO has always suppressed for generations of our learning progress to champion their own rights or philosophy as the KETUANAN MELAYU.

So be prepared to be preserved living in a Third World struggling out to compete with the rest of the world in using keris and other forms of primitive tools.

Next thing which is obviously predictable is to stop using PC and internet in our education system.

Malaysia Truly Sad!
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written by cheekhiaw, May 14, 2008 23:03:31
MULTI-WIN FOOL

Drabdulwahid,

Yah, I bet you had 10 A1s in your exams, and is well recognised by all the top Us in the world for your maths and science expertise too...

xxx
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written by drabdulwahid, May 14, 2008 23:13:20
yes i got 10a1 in my spm thank you with 1 a2.

and i am studying OZ now. and i speak english everyday now. i have to take history from english speaking farmer with a funny accent everyday as well.
oh yes, i forgat to mention i have debates with my english speaking friends as well here. quite heated one as well. i don't feel any difficulties.

asamlaksa got it right in the nail. english is a language. learn it as a language. the medium is secondary.
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written by Rhan, May 14, 2008 23:25:16
I don't see how the teaching of science and maths in English could help to master English the language. The Malay especially the politician shouldn't drag the non Malay into this mud if you do not have confidence towards your own language. Fortunately our DJZ is visionary enough to differentiate between a political policy and a education policy.

Therefore no matter what the government policy moving forward, we Chinese must preserve our own education system, I mean to preserve our Chinese school and Chinese Independent School. This has nothing to do with patriotic but rather, to ensure our next generation could compete globally especially against the Chinese from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

The salary of our fresh graduate is still not much changed after 15 years. We don’t expect to see improvement in the next 10 years. Quality education is our only way out.

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written by PangurBan, May 14, 2008 23:28:32
Way to go Rhan. It is a fact that parents are voting with their feet, and making a beeline to Chinese schools to register their offspring there.
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written by Msian 2, May 14, 2008 23:31:29
Everybody knows the rich & powerful will send their children overseas for english education. Who really cares too much about culture when it is the economics that wins especially given this age of technology & fast pace of knowledge. Even my son don't like to go out & play, rather spend time on the net.
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written by cheekhiaw, May 14, 2008 23:33:46
drabdulwahid,

If English is just a language, what are you doing in OZ learning history from a farmer?

Just there to spend some free money?

And did you try discussing maths and scientific issues with some top mathematicians and scientists of the world?

xxx
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written by generalhonest, May 15, 2008 00:09:47
I am completely against teaching maths and science in BM, Mandarin or Tamil. That's why I disagree with this Drabdulwahid guy is confused between what is most effective and efficient in teaching the subject without unnecessarily burdening our chidren vs patriotism. Where does it say anywhere that just because people learn their maths and science in english makes the person less patriotic or less malay or less chinese or less hindu? In your own narrow mind perhaps. The mastery of mother tongue does not require you to force the children to learn everything in mother's tongue. Just have BM taught in school and make it a compulsory subject, if you are so concerned about it. The benefit of teaching maths and science in English goes beyond the mastery of english but more importantly, it better prepares the future generation to face the globalized and competitive world whose primary language of communication is English. The Internet which is a huge resource of information is all in english, so the children can always do supplementary research work through the internet to further their knowledge. I know even in my ripe age, I continue to learn and pick up new information daily by browsing the web to enrich myself. And this applies even more for matters related to science and maths.

Drabdulwahid, you claim that you have 10A1s blah blah blah....I'll give you the benefit of doubt that even if you did, you are probably one of the few who made it and probably one of the cleverer ones. Count yourself lucky but don't for a moment think because you can do it, other children can too. If you are really as smart as you claim to be, you should know about efficiency of learning which comes by maximizing learning effectiveness while simplifying the learning techniques to achieve high learning efficiency. This can only happen if one does not dilute his/her focus with too much distraction like for example learning these 2 important subjects in BM, Mandarin or Hindu and later in in life having to readjust to another set of vocabularies or new mathematical and scientific terminologies. Today, it's even worst that children are forced to take mathc and science in both the morther's tongue and English.

Why should we put our children through all this stupidity? What is the purpose of burdening them with distractions if our intent is simply to teach them maths and science? If you want to enhance BM, then teach BM as a subject. It's that simple. Don't hold our children hostage to your lack of confidence in your own ethnicity or faith in your own race.

Don't even get me started about linking this to patriotism because I just don't see how it's related. By the way, sounds like you live in OZ, so if you're so proud of BM, make sure your children learn everything in BM. Good luck to them. I, on the other hand, will ensure my children are fully equipped with English to face the challenges of the future.
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written by drabdulwahid, May 15, 2008 00:17:48
dear cheekhiaw,

sorry, history taking means i interview patients in hospital so that i know whats wrong with them. and yes, i do discuss science subjects in class. in fact my course is completely scientific in nature

i dont know what you have against me but this is dragging long enough.
if you dont want to give up, then i will. after all arguing like this wont benefit any of us.
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written by generalhonest, May 15, 2008 00:19:32
Rhan...DJZ is not visionary. They have the same fear and lacks confidence in their own ethnicity just like the Malay ultras. They are 2 of the same kind.
Learning maths and science in chinese is a clear disadvantage for the children when they have to readjust to another language later on. I studied in Singapore and they did not make the children study maths and science in chinese rather they were very much in English. Chinese is an optional subject. And they are competitive for that. Sure, China is fast becoming the place where everyone wants to have their feet planted on (business wise) but you can learn chinese as a subject like in Singapore. No need to disadvantage the children with having to learn maths and science in chinese and change later on in their life when they go to college. In fact, I have colleagues from China who got their jobs in a multi-national company in China because they speak English. If you don't speak English in China, well, too bad.
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written by generalhonest, May 15, 2008 01:19:04
Drabdulwahid, I never called you a racist. I just can't see how you can link patriotism to the need to teach maths and science in BM. You can still teach BM as a subject in school and and if the quality of the teaching/teachers are good, then I don't see how BM proficiency is going to be problem. And maths and science can still be in English.

Don't you already know why so many teachers are so poor in English proficiency? Well, many years ago before Mahathir decided to change all subjects to BM, English was never really a problem. I can still see older generation of Malaysians who are more proficient in English compared to the current younger generation. And it was Mahathir's decision to change to BM that screwed everything up. Mahathir realized his mistake and made the about turn later. Now, just when we're about to make things right again, here come the ultras making demands to go revert back to mother tongue.

Hey, we just made the change in 2003 and it was a big change. So, people should expect some effect from the transition and I expect the transition to be complete soon. I am already seeing young children nowadays being a lot more proficient in English compared to some of the job seeking candidates who I can't even hire in my company because they can't speak English properly. We can't hire them not because they are not smart, but communication in English is important if you're going to deal with people from India, Philippines, China, Singapore, Taiwan, US, etc etc. Sure, there are people who made it but if you have stayed close to what is going on in Malaysia, you might have heard about greatest joke about Malaysian graduates...if you have not heard it, here's the news excerpt from TheSun newspaper.

70% of grads from public institutions jobless
B.Suresh Ram

KUALA LUMPUR: Some 70% of public universities and institutes of higher learning graduates in the country are unemployed.

This is in contrast with 26% for private institutions of higher learning and 34% for foreign graduates.

http://sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=14660

Again, I know you will say "math and science in BM does not mean no english at all".

Well, then this is my response to you...."math and science in English does not mean no BM at all".
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written by banjaran, May 15, 2008 01:24:02
For all you people who say we must be patriotic and have identity, you remember that English is not a foreign language in Malaysia. For better or for worse, though British rule, English became an entrenched language in Malaya and Sabah and Sarawak and Singapore. Entire generations grew up learning English and are actually very fond of the language and do not see it as a foreign language at all. Many Singaporeans speak English as a first language and nobody accuses them of being unpatriotic. English is the favored medium of communication by the business community, the elites, scientists and even bloggers etc. The English language newspapers get the lions share of advertising because they know English is the only language that reaches all races in Malaysia. Malay, Chinese, Tamil and other languages are exclusive to the various ethnic communities. Of course, it would be logical to assume Malaysians would have a love of the Malay language and to be fair, I find that the pre-1957 generation of non-Malays have fond memories of the Malay language due to its charm and simplicity and even made an effort to learn it. Unfortunately, many of the present generation have negative associations with Malay culture, including the language because of UMNO's policies and actions which have really hurt them in the name of helping Malays. I'm not saying that's right, but I am just stating the fact.

Now, on to the situation with our education system. My suggestion would be to study two very successful multi-lingual countries - Switzerland and Singapore - and model our education system after theirs. Based on Switzerland, we can have a vary the languages to suit the different regions. Based on Singapore, we can introduce English medium education with mother tongue classes incorporated into the curriculum.

Former unfederated Malay states and the four former Thai protectorates - Johor, Kelantan, Terengganu, Perlis and Kedah will have Malay medium education the morning with intensive English as a compulsory pass subject conducted in the afternoon.

Former straits colonies and East Malaysia - Penang, Perak, Pahang, Selangor, Negeri, Melaka, Sabah, Sarawak will have English medium education in the morning with intensive Malay Mother Tongue (Mandarin/Tamil/Kadazan/Iban...) as a compulsory pass subject conducted in the afternoon.
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written by crazygweilo, May 15, 2008 02:20:25
Unfortunately I see behind the motives here. This is all about pandering to those who are poor and unwittingly wish to remain so, and believe the propaganda of one language, one race and one religion. This is far more insidious.

If Malaysia retains a substantial minority of monolingual people, who are proficient in Malay, and know a little bad English, that means they are easier to control. It means that the State can control them a lot more easily. The State can tell them what to think, what they should read, and they are not exposed to the wider world. For example, go to Pudu Bus station, and see what books are there in Bahasa Malay for the weary traveller on his balik kampung trip. Or the bookstore at KL Sentral. What is it? Let me tell you.

There is no maths, no science, mainly Islam. Some books about makan. Some comics. Some books about certain politicians, and a certain book by a certain politician

What does that tell me. Hmm.....it reminds me a bit of Ireland in the 1950s. Insular, piss poor, poverty of mind, poverty of spirit, censorship, hatred of outside influences.

Children have different learning abilities, but I cannot emphasise how important it is to expose a child to languages at an early age. It makes life so much easier later on.

Bahasa Malayu is relatively "restricted" in its range of expression. There are terms in English, sentiments in English that do not exist in Bahasa. A language is as much about the transmission of thoughts and ideas. If those thoughts and ideas cannot be tranmitted, they effectively do not exist.

Ultimately, what is created is a hardcore poor, who will remain hardcore poor. I do not refer purely to poverty in the wallet. I refer to poverty of the mind.

Their thinking will be "My Grandparents only spoke Malay, they only had Malay friends, they ate only Malay food, they studied maths and science in Malay, and they only supported UMNO because it was the only true Malay party for the purity and protection of the Malay race"

However....lets take the other side of the coin.

These kids learn English from the age of 7, and at the age of 12, take on a second language. This exposes them to other cultures, races and languages. Between 18 and 21, with this exposure, the kid goes to Kuala Lumpur, meets people from other races, learns how to play Mahjongg, drink Tiger Beer in excessive amounts, and can work in any company because of their open mind, and multilinguistic abilities.

These kids will be able to read the Internet. They will be able to read Malaysia Today. Worst of all, they will be asking some questions.

Such as

"Why is this place so ****ed up"
"Why is Singapore doing better, when we've got all the natural resources"
"Why are India and China catching up. Surely we are smarter than them"

Oh I forgot....what was that thing Tun Razak said in reply to Lee Kwan Yew.

"Its not a brain drain, its a trouble drain"

The whole idea, is keep a reservoir of drones who are obedient, subservient, non questioning, and if they do question and get angry about it, their anger can EASILY be targetted towards.

Indians, Chinese, White people, Jews, the International Financial System.

The same reservoir of drones can only read Berita Harian, Utusan and Bernama. Therefore....they will continue voting for UMNO.

Career prospects:

(a) Government Servant
(b) Police Officer
(c) Toll Booth Operator
(c) Mat Rempit Drug dealer
(d) Restaurant
(e) Busy body for the religious police

Whatever you do, don't teach the peasants Engrish....keep them where they are, otherwise in 20 years, we won't have a job. Oh hold on.....they might vote PAS.
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written by Limang, May 15, 2008 02:57:42
What can we expect from a Minster who brandished the keris and want to soak it with the Chinese blood! Name me one achievement from this below-average student who has no special ability, who is what he is today because of his skin, relationships and racist views! Yes, we should switch back to Melayu - I fully support this move from him! I support the logic that with Bahasa Melayu, we will be the among the best and most developed countries in the world.

I have a better suggestion: let us also have KETUNAN BAHASA MELAYU!
Yes, let use all the billions we have on spreading the Melayu language all over the world so that every person on earth can speak Bahasa! Afterall, learning English is not helping our Malay students. They will be more educated, smarter, and more accomplished with Bahasa Melayu! Then the Chinese and the Indians will not be able to compete with them. Look, we now have Malay students scoring no less than 20As, better than the other races!

So power to Bahasa Malayu and down with English!

I beg all UMNO leaders to think along this line. Let not anything deviate you from this path.

If the Chinese, Indians and other races want to learn English, that's their funeral! Let them lack behind our Malay students.

So yes the Kerismuddin - switch back to Melayu
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written by fearless, May 15, 2008 03:06:00
It's a myth to say teaching math and science in English is a passport to first world status.

India has been using English as their teaching medium for past 60 years, India shall be in Japan's position IF I believe this myth brainlessly.

Philippine is also using English as teaching medium in schools and universities. Are they advanced nation?

Hong Kong is using Cantonese in their schools, their competitiveness is as good as Singapore.

I was learning maths and science in Mandarin in my primary school, I doubt English can improve my mathematic skill to Einstein's standard.
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written by payabunga, May 15, 2008 03:46:28
Since the Umnoputra have the will and money to decide what best for their children, the ordinary Malaysian parent should also have a choice in their children education.
However, we need to consider the world around us now, that's the people our children have to work with in this global society. To do business in India, English is more than sufficient since English is one of India official language; To do business in China & Taiwan, you need to know the official language Mandarin or English; To do business in Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia and Philippine, you can use English. To do business in European Union, you need to know English since it is the de factor official language. From this reality, we make our choice.


Let the parents decide and have the following school choices available at different grades:-


Primary education from Std 1 to 6: Vernacular school :- Malay, Tamil Chinese or English.
The non-English school has to have English language class, science and math class in English.

Secondary Form 1 to Form 3 : English
Making Malay language compulsory language class for students from Chinese, Tamil & English school. I think it is sufficient for the student to speak, read and write Malay language. This fulfill Malaysian constitution that Bahasa Malaysia is the official language.

Form 4 onward : All English.

All school have to be government funded based on enrollment. Parent's will are actually the virtual market force in education, let see which school will fare best.

In the highly competitive Silicon Valley in California, you will be amazed at how many Caucasian parents and Indian Engineer parents send their children to attend daily after-school Mandarin schools there.

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written by payabunga, May 15, 2008 03:49:08
Oh I made a mistake:-

Primary education from Std 1 to 6: Vernacular school :- Malay, Tamil Chinese or English.
The non-English school has to have English language class.
regardless of school, all science and math class in English so the the srudents have more exposure to English in better prepare them for English medium in secondary school.
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written by mystique, May 15, 2008 04:01:13
Thesinner
errr.. yeah that's the point. these countries are successful despite not idolising 'english'. the real issue of why our grads don't do well has got very little to do with how well you speak english!!

for example my french, african & german colleagues do not speak perfect english but it's the exact diversity that brings so much beauty to our team.

And they are very very good at work because if their intelligence, people skills, confidence, depth of knowledge & personalities!

so it's not true that english is the key!! that's madness

it's really just the failure of our education system to inspire excellence in children!

Expat70
Did you read my entire comment? I said in the 1st para

'why does it have to be one or the other. our education system should push for excellence in both languages.'

young people are really capable of being very fluent in many languages if taught well. do not underestimate us!

the only reason why alot of our grads cannot speak english well is because the level of english we were taught in school is really really bad. I had a private tutor all my life. And I can testify that my sekolah menengah's english syllabus was teaching me stuff which my tutor covered with me when i was STANDARD ONE!!!

really madness.

having said all that. I truly love Bahasa Malaysia. It is beautiful, it is mine.

I would have been really angry if someone had decided to have robbed the language from my upbringing...

ps: my new project is german! smilies/smiley.gif
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written by AsamLaksa, May 15, 2008 07:15:34
As much as I would not agree that science and maths in Malaysia be taught in English in the first place as there's little merit to it (please read on), I think it's better to keep it as it is now. Why? Because changing it now will not correct the mistake of the past nor would it benefit the students as teachers need to be retrained all over again. Loads of fun.

To me it makes no difference if the school teaches science and maths in English or BM as long as the medium is sufficient to let them grasp the concepts. Again I stress that students taught in BM didn't have much problems when they need to read English academic texts.

I don't believe in associating use of BM with patriotism as this is all propaganda which I prefer to do without. I don't buy any ketuanan. However there is a reason why BM is the national language because it's supposed to be the main medium to communicate with all level of society. Sadly many ethnocentric Malaysians do not regard BM highly. As many concepts are better explained in English there are also many concepts which are explained better in BM though admittedly more in the arts side of things.

My mother wanted to enrol me in a Chinese school but my father insisted on an English school because he knows his kids won't get into local uni. He didn't particularly care if science and maths were taught in BM as long as we had good English communication skills. But he still stressed to us that we all need to learn BM as long as we are in Malaysia because it's the national language which is used in all official correspondence.

Science and maths should not be relied upon to develop English skills. If you want better English skills, then learn the language properly. This was where the initial idea to teach English in maths and science was utter rubbish. They are using this to cover the failures of the English language syllabus.

The argument that you want employees that speak good English, well, learning science and maths in English is not going to help you much here because these subjects do not teach them communication skills.

English as global language and you want to compete globally? Sure. So fix the English language syllabus and don't mess about with science and maths as this will not fix the problem. You can try and compare with Singapore that uses the English medium in science and maths but also don't forget that they have an effective English language syllabus.

Science and maths not doing well in Malaysia because it was taught in BM? Well, have you checked what the syllabus of BM in schools are like? It's a bloody joke! Seriously. Have you ever heard of teaching a puisi using the literal meaning? Yah, even the teacher can't explain the puisi.

You think teaching of language and using the language in science and maths is not related? Have you read some of the essays written by the students who are weak in languages? Be it in English or BM, it's a right laugh.

So, why teach science and maths in English again? To improve English? Nonsense. I tell you why they did it... because the overall education system fails miserably and they ran out of ideas to sort it out and must come out with the typical BN hare-brained idea (Other examples of BN hare-brained ideas include women who travel overseas alone need to specifically inform/get permission from family members and people wanting to convert to Islam must inform other family members after conversion).
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written by AsamLaksa, May 15, 2008 07:51:12
Generalhonest, yup 70% of local grads are unemployed. But is this because of poor English? There is no break down to give you more details on English proficiency. You also need to look into the breakdown of majors of the unemployed. Find out what is the unemployment rate of the science based majors. You can't really compare with the private colleges because private colleges will always have lower unemployment among their grads mainly because they teach more technical and professional courses (like medicine, law, engineering) which are of higher demand that let's say a more social science based major.

Why is that? Because Malaysian policy neglects social sciences and arts. It's all more engineers to work in factories. Even pure science majors may find difficulty in looking for jobs in Malaysia because Malaysia not only fail to invest much in research (neglected for a long time) but also do not create a very conducive research environment in the public institutions.

So yeah, 70% unemployed grad, but don't blame them not getting taught science and maths in English. Blame it on stupid policies.



Crazygweilo, I share your sentiments in regards to lack of Malay language reading material. This is just sad. Malay language is a fun language. Some Malay songs have very very good lyrics. Have you read the stuff of Usman Awang? Some good stuff. Do you watch Malay movies/dramas? I love P Ramlee films. Badrul spoilt it. But later generation of Malay shows have improved a lot.

Now why is there such a sorry state? After all, it's the national language. Well, just look at how highly the government policies regard BM. There's little incentive for Malay language writers and they don't get recognition. Why bother?

But take a look at Indonesia. Their language looks much more lively. They use their language in every aspect of their lives. You can find many books/novels in Indonesia translated into Bahasa Indonesia and they are very readable, even giving you the similar feel as original books/novels (I know because I used to read the original language books and also the Indonesian translated version that my relative used to buy for me). Indonesians are proud of their language. They recognise the need to learn English but ask them to change the medium of teaching science and maths to English and they think you are mad.



Payabunga, your suggestion to teach BM enough to speak, read and write up to form 3, you might as well ask it to be dropped as the national language as you prescribe a slow death for it. Who are you trying to kid?
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written by Rhan, May 15, 2008 08:29:57
generalhonest,
Did I say we shouldn’t master English in any part of my comment?

To some of you, English is the solution for everything and keep on telling the same myth citing Singapore as example and not sure if you people do realise that Malaysia is not Singapore. You presume all our student will eventually enroll into a university in Singapore, US or UK and should I say you further presume all the university in Europe, China, Taiwan and HK should close shop otherwise you wouldn’t say we have to readjust to another language later on right?

If DJZ is not visionary enough, Malaysia is just another Indonesia. You really think you can write to me in English in MT today? The Malay say katak bawah ……and I think this suit you very well.
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written by expat70, May 15, 2008 08:55:05
Mistique,

My point is - Why shakle our capability in learning. Why limit ourselves to just TWO languages?

You have just said " .... your french, african & german colleagues do not speak perfect english but it's the exact diversity that brings so much beauty to our team."

You see, we have to be practical and realistic here. English langusge is a universally accepted language of trade and commerce all over the world. Therefore, we must not ignore this fact. We must continue to give the language priority in any education systems, while still trying to learn other languages. Look at those countries that do not use any English at all apart form those developed countries in the EU & Japan, and you can judge for yourself. On the other hand, it is also incorrect to say that without using English we will not progress as a country.

Wisdom is a collection of knowledge and experiences.
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written by cheekhiaw, May 15, 2008 11:23:14
FOOLS' WORLD OF COINCIDENCES

The same guys that say it doesn't matter what language is used to teach maths and science are the same guys that say English is just another language just like Malay and nothing more, but are the same guys that go to the English language spaces and media to get or acquire any knowledge of use.

It is all coincidences to such lingual fools.

xxx
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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 11:34:40
but rather, to ensure our next generation could compete globally especially against the Chinese from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?????/...actually ah,anglophil sing n co dont have enuff of talent pool 2 compete with their bapak angkat aka mat sarreh...they r no1 copy cats robotos text book junkies..apa mat sarreh bikin,cipat cipat mereka adopt...itu saja mereka punya speciality
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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 11:39:33
i see nothing wrong in teaching sains n math in malay...comelah fellas.. whats important,is to understnd n explore physical sciences n maths...n true sains tak perlyu bahasa at alll..heheh
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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 11:47:45
ini budak ciakpa betui...

Science's Language Problem
As globalization increases, communication between linguistic communities could become a serious stumbling block




Michael J. Barany



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Mathematicians know that to access seminal texts in their original language, one must study Latin and French. Chemists, similarly, must become familiar with German. Economists must be fluent in English. And for humanists, it's Italian.

What is less recognized is that each science's linguistic milieux fundamentally shapes the course of its development. Linguistic communities necessarily isolate groups of investigators. These restrictions both focus researchers' energies and can effectively bar others from entering a field. A central task of science and technology in the global era will be to grapple with the problem of communication as we probe the horizons of human understanding.

UNHEEDED REPORTS. At the European Peptide Symposium in Prague last summer, one co-chair wryly observed that broken English has become the most common language spoken in academia. Indeed, the tongue of the British Empire has become almost as important a prerequisite to entering the sciences as a strong foundation in mathematics. As a result, it is easy for scientists, especially those accustomed to English, to recline comfortably in the arms of linguistic homogeneity.

Science is not, however, bound to any single language. Today, scientists may accept this linguistic coercion, even though new concepts often become trapped between two languages and fail to emerge altogether. Tomorrow, when the number of researchers fluent in English will certainly dwindle in laboratories throughout the world, the English straightjacket will become increasingly uncomfortable -- at a time when the volume of scientific information is about to explode.

In China and India, world-class scientific infrastructures are emerging, and more discoveries will be reported in their local languages. These could go unheeded or underappreciated elsewhere -- just as work currently published in Japanese or French often fails to impress American scientists not fluent in those languages. Papers that undergo various translations and interpretations often emerge murky and hard to comprehend.

BETTER BRIDGES. While automated translation is rapidly improving, it is unlikely that machines can ever attain the nuance and technical accuracy required for the ever-changing vocabulary of science.

The globalization of science offers innumerable new opportunities for intellectual advancement. But unless we build better bridges between linquistic communities, countless ideas and innovations could be ignored and effectively lost. As future generations of researchers don lab coats, we and they must remember that science reaches its full potential as a central and glorious human pursuit only when it transcends language and enters global consciousness.


Barany was a finalist in the 2005 Intel Science Talent Search

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 11:58:02
The Role of Language in Science

Alan Ford(a) & F.David Peat

A text only version of this essay is available to download.

Foundations of Physics Vol 18, 1233, (198smilies/cool.gif

Abstract

It is argued that language plays an active role in the development of scientific ideas. A research project is outlined which will investigate this hypothesis and, in addition, focus on such questions as the role of mathematics in science and the status of the genetic code.

"Nothing is more usual than for philosophers to encroach on the province of grammarians, and to engage in disputes of words, while they imagine they are handling controversies of the deepest importance and concern." David Hume

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 11:58:48
Introduction

In essays and lectures Neils Bohr was constantly emphasizing the role played by language in science and in our understanding of nature. Scientific investigations, Bohr pointed out, are not exclusively formal, mathematical affairs for they also involve informal discussions in which key concepts are explored and understood. In Bohr's words, "We are suspended in language in such a way that we cannot say what is up and what is down"1. In the case of quantum theory his views on language formed an essential component of the Copenhagen Interpretation " ...the unambiguous interpretation of any measurement must be essentially framed in terms of the classical physical theories, and we may say that in this sense the language of Newton and Maxwell will remain the language of physicists for all time."1

More recently David Bohm has made a thoroughgoing analysis of the role of language in science and in thought. Writing with one of us he has also explored how particular world views are enfolded within the ways scientists use language and shown how fixed forms and the insensitive use of language can lead to blocks in scientific creativity. In particular,2 Bohm has made a perceptive analysis of the famous break down in communication between Bohr and Einstein which he traced to the different values and meanings that were placed on certain words and concepts.

In his proposal for a new language, the Rheomode,3 Bohm has also drawn attention to what he feels to be a defect of our common language in that it enfolds what could be called a mechanistic view of the world. But this appeal for a new language comes into conflict with what linguists feel to be the essential limitations of artificial and so-called improved language systems. How, therefore, is it possible to reconcile Bohm's particular views on the Rheomode within the wider context of his general philosophy and the particular views that are currently held in linguistics?. Our answer is to propose an empirical investigation of the role and use of language within science and, in particular, scientific literature.

Language and Science

The object of this project, which represents the result of many years of discussion between us, as well as discussions with David Bohm, is to study the role of language in the description and practice of science, in its various disciplinary manifestations. A traditional view of language in science is that it plays a passive role, that it is simply the vehicle whereby meaning and information are conveyed from one speaker to another. Attempting to express an new scientific idea becomes merely a matter of "trying to find the right words". Such an attitude is an extension of the common presupposition that the essential role of language is to transport a cargo which is variously described as meaning or content. In such a light, scientific writing has, as its objective, the conveying of scientific knowledge to the reader in a clear and economical way.

The physicist will recognize this view of language as having something in common with Information Theory, in which "bits" of information are transported via a channel from transmitter to receiver. A related notion has also entered physics in the concept of a "signal", which occupies a key position in the Special Theory of Relativity. Bohm, however, has pointed out that Einstein's conception of a signal does not cohere with the corresponding "quantum" context of physics, for it implies "a certain kind of analysis which is not compatible with the sort of undivided wholeness that is implied by the quantum theory"4

We call this "transport view of language" into question. The writings of Bohr and Bohm have made it clear that, in the evolution of scientific thought, language is playing a more active role than is implied by a passive vehicle which merely conveys information. In the context of communication theory, linguists themselves have also pointed to the inadequacies of this traditional viewpoint, for it is clear that the listener is as active as the speaker in elaborating the content of the message. Indeed Fauconnier5 has gone as far as to say that it is never possible to communicate anything that the listener doesn't in fact already know!

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:01:32
idea of a mental space is most clearly understood in the case of vision in which much of what we see is built out of what we already know. Visual scanning of an exterior scene is not so much involved in conveying "bits" of information to the brain as it is a part of an active and ongoing process in which certain clues are sought for and visual hypotheses are put forward and confirmed or modified.

Some intimation of what is going on can be appreciated by looking at the drawings of an artist like Matisse, or the sketches of Rembrant. In these cases there is a considerable economy of marks upon the page, when compared with the works of many other artists, yet the final drawings are particularly satisfying. On the basis of the "information content" conveyed to the brain by these marks it would appear that such drawings are particularly impoverished. Nevertheless they arouse considerable activity within the mind, for each mark on the paper can be completed, or complemented, in a very rich way by the visual imagination of the viewer. Indeed such drawings could be said to involve a play upon the many complex visual strategies we use to fill in and complete what we see. These strategies advance hypotheses, take us in new visual directions and generate a whole dynamical feeling of space, form and movement.

We would argue that there are strong parallels to be drawn between the way in which the visual world is created and the way in which language is used to create our mental spaces. We therefore see that language can play a particularly subtle and active role in the way scientists communicate with each other and the ways in which new ideas are developed, or can be blocked. It will also be of interest to pursue the relationships between vision and language in greater depth and to investigate, for example, the role of meaning as it applies both to words in a language and to visual elements in a scene.

In the light of our proposal, that language plays an active role in the development of science, we feel that an empirical investigation of the role of language in science is called for and, at the same time, an examination of different situations in which the supposed inadequacies of language have led to "improvements" or substitutions for existing language with a view to rendering it more serviceable for the purpose of expressing scientific concepts and theories. In proposing such an investigation we welcome comments and reactions from physicists who have given thought to these issues.

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:02:23
Language and Thought

The question we are investigating can, ultimately, be posed as:"Do we speak (have language) because we think, or do we think because we speak?"

The classical view takes the former position which can clearly be seen in what have been referred to as the transport theory of language, in which language is considered as a passive vehicle used for the conveying information. (In linguistic circles it can also be seen in the prototype theory of categories of Givon, and articles on generative semantics like Lakoff's "Classifiers as a Reflection of Mind".)

The latter view, which acts as a stimulus to our investigation, is clearly more in harmony with Bohm's writings. It can also be found in Wittgenstein"s "family relation Principle"6 and Saussure's notion of "arbitrary sign".

The main field of our investigation will therefore be that of the evolution of scientific thought. One view of science is that it evolves through technological innovations, be these telescopes, particle accelerators or the calculus. But we can also ask why science sometimes blocks, runs into obstacles or turns around in circles. Our hypothesis, and that of Bohm too, is that the origins of these blocks may partially lie in language. Of course the proponents of such systems as symbolic logic have also taken this point of view and sought to repair what they take to be defects in natural language such as ambiguity, irrational deductions, paradoxes etc. But this can never be satisfactory since these pseudo language systems don't work as language. That is, they lack the full expressive and communicative power of our common or natural language.

Our project will begin by examining the recent history of at least two sciences (physics and linguistics) to indicate how natural language properties have contributed to confusion, dilemmas and the creation of artificial problems that only a proper understanding of the workings of natural language mechanisms could have avoided. It is our opinion that natural language is a perfectly adequate instrument for the expression of scientific ideas. Only abuse of its properties, by the imposition of artificial constraints, prevents its functioning and leads to serious breakdowns in communication.

Meaning and Language

In particular we will be looking at the changing use of certain words within science since it is our hypothesis that a change in the use of the word is indicative of a change in theory. Some of these words will include: reality, order, space ,movement, process, field, reason, thought, knowledge, universal, random, discontinuous theory, insight and creativity which also crop up in David Bohm's writings.

During a radical change in scientific thinking, what Thomas Kuhn has called a scientific revolution, it is generally the case that the meanings of key words will change. Yet the words themselves, the linguistic symbols so to speak, remain the same. For example, while the concept of energy underwent a profound development as a result of the science of thermodynamics the word itself continued in common use. But in itself can become a barrier to further scientific development when it gives rise to difficulties in communication. Since the form of the word remains the same it is possible for different scientists to believe that they are all talking about essentially the same thing. In some contexts the world will be used as before while for others it will have acquired a number of subtle new senses.

It is of the nature of language itself that these difficulties should arise. Indeed it is these very issues which require the most alert attention on the part of physicists and, for that matter, philosophers for, we argue, they cannot be resolved by appeal to any specialized or artificial language.

Nowhere has this state of affairs been more graphically illustrated than in the development of quantum theory. It was Bohr who argued that words like position, momentum, spin, space and time refer to classical concepts which have no place within quantum theory. Einstein for his part argued that it should be possible to develop new concepts that are more suited to the quantum domain. However Bohr maintained that, since our language of its very nature is grounded in our day to day commerce with the large scale world, it will not be possible to modify or change it in any significant way. In other words, an unambiguous discussion is only possible at the classical level of things, that is when it is about the results of quantum measurements made with laboratory scale apparatus. But to ask what actually happens at the quantum level of things makes no sense.

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:03:18
The changing meanings of words can also be seen in those terms which have to do with spatial relationships such as space, position, locality, non-locality and even interaction. They have undergone far reaching changes in the developments which led from the Aristotelian to the Newtonian and finally to the general relativistic and quantum mechanical picture of things. Yet because the same word "space" is used in each case it is possible to create the illusion that different scientists are sometimes talking about the same thing. Particular difficulties can also be found in discussions about the significance of Bell's Theorem and the meaning of non-locality in physics. Of course working physicists perfectly understand the difference between quantum theory, relativity and Newtonian mechanics, nevertheless there are many particularly subtle differences in meanings associated with a word such as space and it is often the case that the old and new meanings co-exist side by side. In other words scientists may employ the same word in subtly different ways within the same conversation. It is the actuality of our situation as human beings that we must employ language in order to communicate and, for this reason, we must pay careful attention to both the power and the limitations of language.

Since physicists may not be familiar with the general methodology of linguistics let us, by way of illustration, enquire into the meaning of the word language. What can be said about it?

That language is a word. And should first be seen in this light. But, to paraphrase Juliet: What is a word? A word has three necessary properties.

A phonological form.

A syntactic category.

A semantic use7.

On the basis of this notion of word, a language becomes:

A lexicon. This is the set of words used for linguistic intercommunication by a group or at least two people, along with some form of implicitly ordered relationship to other words. Commonly this ordering is assumed to be in the form of a syntactic tree, but could we venture to hypothesize a form of implicate ordering?

A grammar. That is, the set of strategies used for intercommunication by those who possess a common lexicon.

Linguistics is the study of the use and organization of language with particular linguistic theories differing in their views on how a and b are organized, or,if you like, how they are acquired and used psychologically. One particular approach which will be advocated, claims that a grammar contains the following components:

A lexicon. That is, a set of words along with what we are referring to as their implicate order.

A morphology, . A set of strategies for constructing words.

A syntax or set of strategies for constructing sentences.

A phonology or set of strategies for pronouncing sentences

A semantics, a set of strategies for interpreting sentences.

A text compiler. That is, a set of strategies for combining sentences into larger units.

The above corresponds to what may be brought to a linguist's mind by the world language. Another useful tack is to think of some of the ways in which this word is used. In the English sentences below a French translation is also provided:-

The English language. La langue Anglaise.
Watch your language. Watch ton langage.(In Quebec)
Language and speech. Langue et parole.
The origin of language. L'origine d'langage.
Language reform. Le reform du langage.
The Language Bill Le project de lois sur la langue.
Bad language. Sacre.

A useful test to show that words have different uses is to translate them into another language for usually they do not come out in an uniform manner. For an English word like language, French has at least two words langue and langage.

Meaning

David Bohm, has frequently referred to meaning, particularly when talking about his recent experiments with dialogue groups in which "a free flow of meaning" is encouraged. This whole question of meaning, and what we mean by it is clearly of importance and, in particular, the question "What do you mean by language?"

C.K. Ogden and I. A. Richards's classic The Meaning of Meaning8 provides a useful introduction to such questions. Following Odgen and Richards the work of Ludgwig Wittgenstein had made a particularly significant contribution to the notion of meaning in linguistics.9 According to his dictum: Don't look for the meaning, look for the use. Essentially this can be interpreted as saying that meaning is a generalization that doesn't correspond to anything that is actually available in language behavior. What we actually rely upon are individual uses which are themselves interrelated according to a pattern of family resemblances. In this sense words could no more be said to "possess" an intrinsic meaning that is independent of their use than, in Bohr's view, could an electron be said to "possess" an intrinsic position or spin.

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:06:24
Some Fundamental Questions

The research project we have begun is also directed towards answering a series of questions, amongst these are:.

What is the role of mathematics in science?

The topic of superstrings has caused some physicists to question the increasing important role that abstract mathematics is playing in science. What are we gaining and what are we loosing by placing such reliance on mathematics? And, to reiterate a question first asked by Wigner, why should mathematics be so extraordinarily effective in science? Why do all our insights and discoveries in science so naturally lend themselves to mathematics?

What is mathematics and what is its role in science? One could almost reiterate the questions asked about the role of language. Is mathematics simply the vehicle or tool of science or does it does it play a more positive and active role? There is an argument for suggesting that mathematics is actually "driving" some of the present research on superstrings,for example.

And is mathematics somehow more or less than a language? Are there things that can only be done and thought in mathematics and not in language? Are there methodologies in mathematics that do not exist in language? Or is it simply that mathematics allows certain operations to be performed in a more compact and efficient way? In what ways is mathematics less general than a language and what does it loose by this lack of generality?

A particular characteristic of mathematics which appears in one aspect to differentiate it from language is its appeal to visual thinking. Of course geometry and topology make direct appeal to visual conformation and to short cuts in thinking that require manipulations in a sort of mental visual space. But visualizations also occur in branches of mathematics that are not directly connected with the properties of space. Mathematicians claim that some of their thinking is quite different than that which uses language. Einstein himself appears to have been aware of a level of thinking which involved muscular tensions within the body and an almost tactile experience of space. In this sense therefore mathematics would appear to be both more and less than a language for while being limited in its linguistic capabilities it also seems to involve a form of thinking that has something in common with art and music.

What is the nature of Artificial Languages?

Forms used in logic, artificial intelligence, computer science and in semantics are variously viewed as being improvements on natural language or as defective forms of natural language. It is important to investigate those properties that are claimed to be improvements and see what they are really doing. For example, is it possible to do better logic with the computer language PROLOG, and what about the sorts of things that cannot be done with PROLOG but can be performed in a language like English? Are there limits upon the current approaches to artificial intelligence that result from a reliance on artificial languages? In other words: Is what is gained by the use of an artificial language in proportion to what is lost?

What are Primitive, Technical, Sacred and Super Languages?

What is the status of these supposedly different forms of language. At one time it was assumed, for example, that the native languages of Australia, Africa and the Americas were in some way primitive for they were supposed to be incapable of meeting the demands of our modern world. A limitation of this kind, if it truly existed, would open the possibility that the languages we speak may also reach some form of limit as science enters into ever new realms. But, in fact, it appears that native speakers can do as much with their language as can we in, for example, English. Again the so-called technical languages of law, medicine and theoretical physics are nothing less that ordinary language which, linguistically speaking, have nothing particularly special in the properties of their lexicons beyond certain restrictions and extensions. The supposed special status of superlanguages, like Esperanto, as well as sacred languages will also be examined.

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:07:11
Is the genetic code really a code?

It is generally assumed by biologists that DNA is the physical representation of an underlying genetic code which can be "cracked" like any other code. But what exactly are the commonly accepted linguistic properties of codes? It is generally agreed that a code is a written form of a natural language, employing some particular form of orthography. At first sight the genetic code looks quite different, for it has little in common with a natural language.

But suppose that we advance the hypothesis that it is indeed used like a natural language! It then becomes possible to project onto the structure and processes of DNA and the cell itself all that we know about the properties of natural languages. By experimenting with this notion, that the cell may have available to it all the richness of a natural language, we may be led to new insights in biology--or alternatively to a rejection of our hypothesis.

References

a Department de linguistique et philologie, Universite de Montreal, C.P. 6128, Succ. A, Montreal, Quebec, H3C 3J7.


1N.Bohr, in A. Peterson Quantum Physics and the Philosophical Tradition. (M.I.I. Press, Cambridge, Mass 1968.)
2 D.Bohm and F.David Peat, Science, Order and Creativity. (Bantam Books, N.Y., 1987)
3D. Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order. (Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, Boston, 1980.)
4D. Bohm, Quantum Theory as an Indication of a New Order in Physics, in Foundations of Quantum Mechanics. B d'Espagnat, ed. (Academic Press, N.Y. and London, 1971.)
5G. Fauconnier, Mental Spaces:Aspects of meaning construction in natural language. (Bradford/M.I.T. Press, Cambridge, Mass, 1985.)
6Alan Ford, Category theory and family resemblances in Quantum Implications: Essays in Honour of David Bohm. B.J.Hiley and F.David Peat, eds. (Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, 1987.)
7Alan Ford, (To be added in proof.)
8C.K. Ogden and I.A. Richards, The Meaning of Meaning. (Routledge and Kegan Paul, London, 10th edition, 1966.)
9See for example, L. Wittgenstein, Philosophical Investigations. (Blackwell, Oxford, 1968.)

Related Pages:
David Bohm | Language & Linguistics | Science

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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 12:54:18
satu penemuan yg sangat sangat penting...

Higgs Boson: A Ghost in the Machine
by ronjon on Wed 09 Apr 2008 03:41 PM PDT | Permanent Link
TIME Magazine

(in partnership with CNN)
Higgs Boson: A Ghost in the Machine
Wednesday, Apr. 09, 2008 By EBEN HARRELL/GENEVA

http://www.sciy.org/blog/SCIENCETECH/PHYSICS/_archives/2008/4/9/3629988.html
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written by cruzeiro, May 15, 2008 14:04:16
written by cheekhiaw, May 15, 2008 | 11:23:14
FOOLS' WORLD OF COINCIDENCES
The same guys that say it doesn't matter what language is used to teach maths and science are the same guys that say English is just another language just like Malay and nothing more, but are the same guys that go to the English language spaces and media to get or acquire any knowledge of use.
===============================

Dear cheekhiaw,
It appears that you have got a very perverted line of thought - at least that is the "coincidence" I see, even if I'm a fool.

You have conveniently classified human choice as a "coincidence".
You have used the simplistic argument of the Internet in this discussion to prove a point. You have conveniently used the fact that the availability of the IT infrasructure that permits transmission of information in English as a parameter.

You don't seem to understand the fact that, the language required to impart concepts, ideas, message or thinking skills to school-going kids isn't as important as the philosophy/ ethics of "Education" that's necessary for excellence.
You seem to think that the English language is the "magic bullet" to cure all the ills of our education system.

This is what that old goat TDM would want you to believe, as he cloaks the corruption that has destroyed the education system in Malaysia.
You don't seem to have understood what AsamLaksa, drabdulwahid, SUV, and others are trying to say - or simply don't wish to accept facts/ lose an "argument".

It doesn't matter if you use German or Japanese or Swahili to teach something - what's important is the fact that they acknowledge meritocracy in education.
No amount of English is gonna make Einsteins, CV Ramans, Edisons, Watsons or Oppenheimers in Malaysia, if the system that encourages political meddling, cheating and mediocrity isn't done away with.

Believe me - that isn't a coincidence!
That English is used more on the Internet, isn't turning anybody into a brainiac.
That English is used in trade doesn't make them better.
It can transmit information, but wouldn't necessarily teach any thinking skills.
Do you actually believe that the vast majority of kids depend on the internet for "knowledge"?
They use it for fun/ leisure, cheekhiaw - not education.
Porn, gaming, chatting, YouTube, facebook and the likes are the "real stuff" for these kids - not "education".

That the language of thought processes in Science and Maths is common to mankind isn't a coincidence either.
It is the Language of Science.
It is the Language of Maths.
It is the Language of Truth and integrity.

You cheekhiaw - lie to yourself in saying that English is the language of Science & Technology.
That's like saying that Latin or Arabic is the language of God!
You seek false reassurances for your misconceptions, just as "that old goat who isn't worth his mutton" prescribes simplistic solutions for the ills (he created) that plague the nation. Just as the racists, who demand the use of Malay so as to prove the "Ketuanan Melayu".
You have let your dislike for things "Malay" (because of the racism practised by UMNO - don't really blame you entirely for that "coincidence" , though) to cloud your judgement on "Education".

Ask the Russians, Japanese, Indians, Chinese, Germans, French if you need any reassurance on that fact.

The answer will definitely not be from the FOOLS' WORLD OF COINCIDENCES,
for fools, these guys, surely are not!

Cheers, mate!
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written by cruzeiro, May 15, 2008 14:14:40
BTW, my apologies if you didn't mean the internet when you said "English spaces and media".
That was what I presumed, you had meant to say, as I don't depend on MSM.
Either way, I believe that the same argument that I put up above holds.

Let me know if I'm wrong .... but although English does give an advantage, simple sciences don't require any specific language as you may choose to believe.

Ciao.
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written by generalhonest, May 15, 2008 19:18:13
Rhan...to your comment:

If DJZ is not visionary enough, Malaysia is just another Indonesia. You really think you can write to me in English in MT today? The Malay say katak bawah ……and I think this suit you very well.

My response to you is this.... my wise dad saw how shitty the education system in malaysia about 30years ago with the vernacular and national school concept, and that's why he sent both my brother and I to Singapore starting from our primary school education, using his hard earned money. Boy, am I glad, and you know what? Seeing the suffering my young children have to go through in vernacular school tying to cram 3 languages besides the maths and science in 2 languages, plus many other subjects, I have decided that soon I'll send them overseas too. Why should my children have to waste away the most innocent and precious part of their lives growing up studying like mad dogs and having to now learn maths and science in 2 languages and multiple languages which should just be acquired on optional basis? Maths and Science are wonderful subjects and should be taught in a way that people understand easily and can enjoy. Why dilute the learning of these 2 subjects with Chinese when so often, it takes them longer just trying to figure out what were the chinese characters rather than solving the problem itself? At the end of the day, problems they could solve in English could not be solved in Chinese because they don't understand the question. This is not education. This is insanity and stupidity from policies concocted by ultras who fear the weakening of ethnic roots in the younger generation. An unfounded fear in my opinion.

So, for your information, I don't owe Malaysian education or DJZ a damn thing. In fact, it's not just DJZ that I am pissed off with but also the malay and hindu ultras. If they had their heads screwed on right, their policies would not have forced me to leave Malaysia to go to another country for my education. Neither would I have to worry about my children's education too.

Whether you like it or not, in Malaysia, education is mixed with politics and that's why the education system is all so screwed up. And all the ethnic ultras are to be blamed for propagating this racial and ethnic polarization through their policies. Teaching Maths and Science in mother tongue is one of the fruits of their stupid policies.
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written by AsamLaksa, May 15, 2008 19:23:34
Cheekiaw, you have such a shallow perspective. You only want to treat one symptom out of many with a dubious method and then fail to diagnose and treat the disease.

I don't get why this anti-BM? Then again, I know many Malaysian Chinese who can't converse in BM and I suspect these are the people who would like all subjects to be taught in English or even Mandarin. So I was thinking sure, why not make English the national language and everything in Malaysia done in English... but... what of the others who do not do well in English and better in BM? Well, they can argue it's their onus to be good in English or get left behind. Now that just stinks. Don't these people feel shame that they are Malaysians, working or going to work in Malaysia, know what the national language is and can't converse in it?

My Chinese friends are surprised I listen to Malay and Indonesian music. I said the melody and the lyrics are good. I also listen to Mandarin, Japanese and Korean music without understanding a word of it because they have good melody. They do the same thing with listening to Japanese and Korean music without understanding a word of it but somehow Malay songs is a no-no. Why? Is it because these Chinese do not want to be 'entrapped' by the Malay culture just like some Chinese refusing to wear a songkok when meeting royalty? I give no truck to ethnocentric agendas. I would rather wear a songkok at school assemblies if it means I do not have to wear a choking tie.

End of the day, I do not see this issue of what language to teach science and maths as giving anyone an advantage or disadvantage as it's really a non-issue in improving the education standards. However this issue touches sentiments of many Malaysians and will continue to do so unless the rot of the education system is not sorted out. However this rot in the education system is too vague a concept to many and it's so much easier to latch on what medium to use to teach science and maths. Go figure.
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written by SUV, May 15, 2008 22:27:52
You seek false reassurances for your misconceptions, just as "that old goat who isn't worth his mutton" prescribes simplistic solutions for the ills (he created) that plague the nation
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hahaha..tepat sekali!!!olg goat..fooh..

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the particle boson is named after dat famous bangla santis,satyen bose(see bose -einstin statistics)..actually aah,he did all d work lah..einstein just endorsed it..bose "4th principle" of quantum mechanics was revolutionary..it took 70 years to prove his theory(and d saintis at caltech dat proved it won nobel prize)..bose was a pure bangla...and like all bangla's, mother tongue comes 1st..when i was still very kicik,i saw subramanyam chandrasekar's collasping star geraf..and geuss wat..it was written in tamil...haha..cv raman(nobel prize winner in fizik for his light experiments) n his nephew(i think) subramanyam chandrasekar,who won his nobel in 1983,r two of asia's greatest pizicist..me no mistaken chandrasekar taught tsung dao lee @ uni of chicago..tsung oso minan nobel prize..
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written by Rhan, May 15, 2008 22:34:14
generalhonest,
Your have a wise father, when he find out Malaysia education is shit, he send you to Singapore, when he find out Malaysia economy is shit, he may move to Australia. The pissed off DJZ is the stupid fool who stay and fight, and the most valuable comment from you is that Malaysia education is mixed with politic while you don't know at all what is politic. Let me tell you this, you must make up your mind, a Thailand model or a Switzerland model?

Again you may tell why not Singapore? I find that most Singaporean could speak better Mandarin than Malaysian. Now you know where Singapore is heading towards? Btw, your criticism toward Chinese language give me a impression that you kids know English even before they were born.
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written by Rhan, May 15, 2008 22:39:28
SUV, i setuju singapo never produce much bright scientist walaupun boleh speak inglalish like matsalleh, lapi dun play play, their kiasu attidude help them make tonnes of money.
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written by patlu, May 16, 2008 00:48:16
Towards a Pragmatic Language Policy

The national education system should review its medium of instruction policy. For effective acquisition and transmission of knowledge, we advocate review based on language best suited in each specific field. If English serves the teachers and students best in the fields of science, mathematics, engineering, medicine, information technology, economics and business, let’s make it the medium of instruction. For other fields, we should allow for choice in the medium of instruction, respecting the students’ other language skills.

The fact of the matter is, basic proficiency of various languages only get us past the door. It is not an adequate tool to mine the mountains of knowledge or equip us to set sail onto new geographical and intellectual frontiers.

Face this reality squarely – Through our education system in the last two decades, we have created one whole generation of people who are extremely weak in their overall language skills.



The ability to think, the depth and breadth of thinking, calls for a certain level of language mastery. If there isn’t an adequate vocabulary, in whatever language the thinker chooses, he or she simply can’t articulate his or her thoughts, explore the interconnection of ideas, participate in dialogues or persuade others of one’s ideas. Period. Put all these in the context of Malaysians going global and trying to find a place in the new economy!

Full story, http://www.pahlawan.com.my/voice/language.shtml
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written by roadbarra, May 16, 2008 03:32:49
Haiyahh, why so susah wan...just scrap Mathematics and Science lor. Scrap these two subjects then don't have to worry what language to use, it's so simple.
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written by SUV, May 16, 2008 10:07:12
rhan ,
their kiasu attiude oso make them loooose money o...looklah wat appenin now in singland...and since when got money=creverness?dis lebanese fellas oso pandai bikin lui waat..people say,kasi maleka pasir,they can sell it for a million bucks...but where r they in terms of sains n maths?

ini saya tak mau ciakap talak butut...kita punya moden sains n ilmu isap dah sampai punghujung jalan..ada saintis tau ini...there is someting far superior then moden sains,something jauh lagi hebat,samething that gives the most korek korek anwser....something which asia discovered looooong time ago,but macam ol goat,kita mudah lupa(kiasuism,mat sarreh rox punya pasai)....apa tu? smilies/grin.gif

imo,labah labah is the best ahli geometri,campur engineer,campur artist..hampa setuju?
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written by SUV, May 16, 2008 10:08:32
sing bioteck bikin lui aah?
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written by cheekhiaw, May 16, 2008 12:43:19
FOOLS' BROAD PERSPECTIVES

The same people claiming to have broad perspectives are claiming that English is just a language and nothing more (and not even a means to something), and the fact that the country's young are not doing well in those subjects has to do with many other things except the language used, and thinks that those that say that language has something to do with it are narrow minded fools who thinks that English is the solve all.

Broad sounding narrow minds...

xxx



FOOLS' WORLD OF COINCIDENCES

The same guys that say it doesn't matter what language is used to teach maths and science are the same guys that say English is just another language just like Malay and nothing more, but are the same guys that go to the English language spaces and media to get or acquire any knowledge of use.

It is all coincidences to such lingual fools.

xxx
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written by zonefinder, May 16, 2008 14:04:21
If we want to compete in Formula 1, we cannot go enter a proton wira because we don't have anyone to drive a Formula 1 car. We just go train somebody up lah.
English is the language for Global commerce. We better think of ways to bring up our rakyat to be english proficient if we want to have a place in this world. We must get ourselves out of our comfort zone to compete globally. Going back is a defeatist attitude.
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written by Dominic, May 16, 2008 20:11:34
No wonder the Malay students themselves getting no where with this constant switch. I supposed the rate it is going is faster than changing one`s underwear to some people ! The rule of the game is, you must have constant change otherwise no money goes into your pocket..not my pocket nor rakyat pocket but the dirty politicians !!!
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written by SUV, May 16, 2008 23:12:28
what about the indians n d chinses students command of bahasa englesh?superb aah? ;..lots of racist bums talking k0k as usual...

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written by SUV, May 16, 2008 23:25:29
yalah,we had dat boy band bum called alex yoong,trying the nep way in f1..sungguh memalukan..failed to qualify inside the 107% couple of times in dat minardi n in d end kena buang smilies/tongue.gif smilies/cry.gif .yes,kena pandu wira ,kancil,go kart,belajar car dynamics,setting ups..bottom up caranya.. human computer blip throttle pioneer 3 times wdc holder d late ayrton senna,sampai akhir hayat lumba go kart..why?..and his englesh wasnt dat gootaneh..but boy oh boy,he was worshipped in japan..why?
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written by SUV, May 16, 2008 23:44:10
152. When our minds are involved in matter, they think matter the only
reality; when we draw back into immaterial consciousness, then we see
matter a mask and feel existence in consciousness alone as having the
touch of reality. Which then of these two is the truth? Nay, God
knoweth; but he who has had both experiences, can easily tell which
condition is the more fertile in knowledge, the mightier & more
blissful
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mysterious 19 in the Quran
A Critical Evaluation
In the last few years Muslims have been made acutely aware of a new proof for the divine content of the Quran:


"Using the ultimate in scientific proof namely mathematics, the physical examinable evidence is provided that the Quran is the infallible word of God." ("Al-Quran: the Ultimate Miracle" by Ahmed Deedat)
Dr. Rashad Khalifa, a Muslim scholar living in the United States wrote a book entitled "The Perpetual Miracle of Muhammad." According to his testimony he was taken up by a verse in the Quran (Sura 74:30) which reads:


"Over it are nineteen."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Naturally, the body had the experience. Something took place which I won't tell, and it had the true reaction; it didn't have the old reaction, it had the true one: it smiled, you know, with this Smile of the supreme Lord - it smiled. That remained there for a day and a half. And that difficulty was what let the body make the last progress, let it live in that Consciousness; if everything had been harmonious, things might have dragged on for years - it's wonderful, you know, wonderful!

How stupid people are! When the Grace comes to them, they drive it away, saying, "Oh, how horrible! ..." I'd known that for a long time, but my experience is ... a bedazzlement.


Yes, each thing is perfectly and marvelously what it must be every instant.

Exactly.


But it's our vision that isn't in tune.

Yes, it's our separate consciousness.

The whole is brought with lightning speed towards the consciousness that will be this Consciousness of the point and of the whole at the same time.

(long silence
Mother completes the copy of her note)

There, I'll write today's date.


Today is the 19th.

19 November 1969: supramental consciousness.

The first descent of the supramental Force [[On 29 February 1956. ]] was on a 29th. And this is on a 19th. The figure 9 has something to do with all this .... There are so many things we don't know!

(silence)


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written by roadbarra, May 17, 2008 13:41:17
I won't be surprised that the minister might scrap the two subjects.
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written by wood, May 18, 2008 03:06:42
During my time in the 1960's, we went to a National School , and all our subjects with the exception of Bahasa Malaysia, were taught in English. For those who wanted to study for example Mandarin, we have classes once a week. Most of the students I would say can speak and write reasonably good English. Malay students will as usual always excel in Bahasa and the other students need to put extra effort to master BM. Can't we go back to this era ?

Now you have a lot of graduates from our local universities, having problems with English when they start looking for employment and during the interviews requesting if they can communicate in Bahasa!!!!!!

We also want to attract FDI to Malaysia !!!!! We better ask these foreigners to master Bahasa Malaysia first because we are now better in speaking Bahasa Malaysia and tell them "WHEN YOU ARE IN ROME SPEAK AS THE ROMANS DO"
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written by densemy, May 18, 2008 10:50:23
BM is a doomed language. Any language which is spoken by only 26 mill people is doomed in this world of globalisation

Its only because of rampant nationalism that the language has been propped up to a level way beyond its importance. And in the process the languages of science and english have been abused and corrupted

English is the language of business and science and India's recognition of that has put them light years ahead of Malaysia in so many respects...

English should be the language of education at all levels. You can choose what you do with the other languages

BM has relegated Malaysia to the backwaters of progress
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