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Syariah High Court declares convert no longer a Muslim PDF Print
Thursday, 08 May 2008 23:32

By Sharanjit Singh @ nstonline

The Syariah High Court in Penang has delivered a landmark decision allowing a Chinese convert to renounce Islam and revert back to her Buddhist faith. Syarie High Court judge Othman Ibrahim said the court had no choice but to declare Siti Fatimah Tan Abdullah no longer a Muslim as she had never practised the teachings of Islam.

Siti Fatimah, who is from Nibong Tebal, is a Chinese by birth. She filed the application in May last year. In her affidavit to renounce the religion, Siti Fatimah, whose Chinese name is Tan Ean Huang, said she converted to Islam in July 1998.

However she never practised any of the Islamic teachings and claimed that she had converted for the sake of marrying an Iranian named Ferdoun Ashanian in 1999, but he left her a few months later. She has no knowledge of his current whereabouts.

There was pin drop silence as Othman delivered the decision. He also chastised the Penang Islamic Religious Council for failing to live up to its responsibilities and ensuring new converts truly understood the teachings of Islam.

He said it was regrettable that the council had neglected its duties and did not act quickly enough to save Siti Fatimah Tan Abdullah's ‘akidah’ (faith).

Citing this as among causes that led to her shallow understanding of the religion, he said: "It is their obligation to encourage, support, help and ensure new converts understand and follow Islamic teachings.

"However, in this case nothing was done until the last moment when it was already too late," he said.

Othman noted that the council only entered its representations in Siti Fatimah's case at the end of the trial despite having been served notice right from the start.

He said the council should establish clear procedural and supervisory guidelines on the issue of conversions in and out of Islam.

Meanwhile, Siti Fatimah Tan Abdullah, or Tan Ean Huang, 39, when met after the decision, said she was relieved and could now get on with her life.

"It has been traumatic for me while my case was pending. Now that it is finally over, I hope to move on.

"I also hope to be able to find a boyfriend now that the issue surrounding my religious status is cleared,” she said.

Tan, who is the eldest among eight siblings, said she was thankful her family had been supportive of her all this while.

Comments (66)Add Comment
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written by sickofitall, May 08, 2008 23:42:38
Finally, the right decision. There is no compulsion in Islam. While I personally disagree with her decision to renounce Islam, as a muslim I have no option but to respect her right to do so. Let God be her judge in the next life, not us. The most important part of the decision to me seems to be the reminder by his honorable judge to the Pg Islamic Religious Council to ensure that new converts truly understand Islam. To be fair and to my knowledge, as a convert, they do do that but reminders now and then is good! Well done!
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written by tikuih, May 08, 2008 23:51:20
one good step for man, a giant leap for mankind
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written by LKO, May 08, 2008 23:55:22
I am of the opinion that religion is of a personal belief. Do you really need a court, any court for that matter, to decide what you belief? If all you need is to "join" a religion is confess you willingness to belief in a religion, why can't a simple declaration settle that?

This is getting silly.
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written by cwy, May 08, 2008 23:55:35
It is just an exceptional case here!
In Malaysia, Islam is a religion which you have to carry it to the 'kubur' once
you embrace it! The only good thing is that you are not stoned to death if you denounce it on this bolehland!
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written by Windchime, May 08, 2008 23:56:46
Most definitely, a step in the right direction!

Let's hope this types of judgement will be consistently carried out in all the Syariah courts in the country.
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written by chanatak, May 09, 2008 00:00:12
This is just a political decision, compelled by the force of events. But a forced decision is better than none. It is a sign of people power. Yet the people's power is not yet fully unleashed in this nation.

How about those born into the religion? They who are in it not by choice ..... Are they not humans too that they have no human rights to choose their own religion?

Therein lies the fallacy and hypocrisy. RPK is right all along. Islam is about akidah, not about fardhu ain. It is about Fardhu kifayah.

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written by Tompios, May 09, 2008 00:01:22
Iranian man! You are really give Malaysians what kind of Islam of you! You just fooling around yellow silk skin and change her to Islam so that you can consume her body freely. But, after you lick every milimeter of her body you dump her out!

Syariah court of Penang! Don't think that you are one and only neglect most saudara baru in Malaysia. Turn your eyes to Sabah and you can see most Sabahan saudara baru is being neglected by MUIS authority. The best thing that MUIS can do here is burying and claiming the dead body of Mualaf to be buried in Islam.
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written by Sabahfan, May 09, 2008 00:07:37
Sickofitall said...Let God be her judge in the next life, not us.

Well my dear fellow... There is no problem with that, if u have not realised it yet...

Tan Ean Huang will have her old god to judge her then, and surely her God will be only too happy she came back.....to the Buddha....
Not to Mohammeds god anymore.....

Ha ha ha... another Seditious remark???? Kamunting here we come..!!

The only mistake this woman made was to fall with an Iranian whose name immediately tells me the bastard only want to marry the chinese woman to taste whats like to have sex with a chinese, after puas puas, leave her to survive on her own...

So chinese women should learn from this lesson, and never convert in the first place... and forget about marrying those GATAL men... surely you have lots of other men to choose from amongst your own chinese or other races who shares the same gods with you....

anyone so stupid in future will never get my sypathy...

Hey, Najib... another seditious posting?????
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written by Dominic, May 09, 2008 00:16:52
The Syariah high court in Penang got no choice but to allow her to renounce her Islamic faith not because she didnt practise enough on Islamic teaching but probably shes a no body and hence considered not important to `own` her . Remember the case involving the young lady who turned into high class whore in UK ? See the difference ! One is outright reject and ok to renounce while the other is precious enough to salvage !!!
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written by omarkhayyam, May 09, 2008 00:18:14
Syarie High Court judge Othman Ibrahim ... u have truly been impartial Sir in discharging ur duty.

u have my respect,

cheers
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written by MasterYoda, May 09, 2008 00:22:38
Notice the Syariah court judgment was based on that there was last minute work done.

If they well prepared the verdict might have been otherwise.

Given the situation and current pressure / controversies, they have to give in.

People, if BN had won 2/3 majority and Tsu Koon was still CM... we can forget such a wonderfull outcome.

Acording to the jugde, the muslim council must be well prepared for any similar future case.... so prepared they will be....and more prepared we must be!

I believe in FREEDOM to design and determind my destiny
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written by DatoSeri, May 09, 2008 01:03:20
At last... something make sense.

Religious freedom?
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written by mikewang, May 09, 2008 01:13:11
Freedom of religion.
Freedom of belief.
Freedom of choice.

You shouldn't need a court to tell you that you could change your belief.
It's a fundamental right to leave, just as it is a fundamental right to believe.
Let no man take that away from you.
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written by EvilWolf, May 09, 2008 01:17:10
Othman Ibrahim - thank you for making a rationale and wise decision. I hope that this precedent will now liberate many others who have endured this suffering for years.
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written by Daryl, May 09, 2008 01:25:48
Finally, a judge that make sense in all the madness that are happening around Malaysia. Off course it have to be a judge from the syariah court.But, is a step foward none the less.

THe only one still behind time is UMNO now and that reflected on the Federal Government. So, lets us pray that that will go away as well as level headed leaders prevail after the dust settle. Once that is behind us maybe we can learn to compete in the real world again. MAybe than MALAYSIA BOLEH will truly mean something...
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written by AsamLaksa, May 09, 2008 01:28:12
Although it's the right decision, I await further developments so that any voluntary conversion will not need to be challenged in any court and at the worst just a legal procedure without any faith enforecement actions by any religious authority. Again I repeat that I would even go so far as seek for the removal of religion from any identification documents. However this will be tough as there's so many legal implications with being a Muslim.
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written by Mimi, May 09, 2008 01:35:06
Islam is not just a religion and faith, it is a way of life. As Muslims, every aspect of our life is guided by the Quran and HAdith. It is nothing like what is potrayed by most Muslim you see walking around you ths days. Most of your perceptions of Islam are wht you make of based on Western media or those who know Islam just by touching the surface. Since as a Muslim myself, I still have a lot to study and learn before I can really discuss deeply on faith and aqidah. So i would appreciate it if those who have limited knowledge as myself and those who do not practice the faith to not comment so much on Islam. Other Muslims do not go around commenting how Christians and Buddhist practice their religion becuz we do not practice or study it. So isnt it better to leave the matters of Islam to those who are qualified to talk and discuss about it.Even as a Muslim wth a background on Islamic education , Islam is way too complex and broad for me to make my own conclusion on any turn of events and to criticize regarding this matter.

LKO, u may think it is silly, but religion is faith. Your belief. Your way of life. No matter what you are, Muslims, Christians or Buddhist, religion is never silly and certainly not something you wanna mess and make fun with. Afterall, there are still wars going on for hundreds of years until the present time just because of religion and places or worship.
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written by bunian, May 09, 2008 01:47:18
Mimi: The bulk of comments made here were not on the religion but on the actions of the Judge and Tan. LKO's comment never implied anything about the nature of religion. Or are you just one of those empty upstairs quick to defend the faith regardless of context?
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written by AsamLaksa, May 09, 2008 03:00:06
Mimi, I agree with Bunian, you are criticising out of context. So far no one is criticising the merits of Islamic teachings to begin with. I find no issue with LKO's comment as well. He did not call Islam 'silly'.
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written by FFT, May 09, 2008 03:10:22
written by Mimi, May 09, 2008 | 01:35:06
Most of your perceptions of Islam are wht you make of based on Western media or those who know Islam just by touching the surface.


No need to blame western media.

We got perfect example of how UMNO Muslims behave in Malaysia. These same UMNO Muslims who try to force form-over-substance Islam on everybody else:

1) 3 Mulims currently implicated in the brutal murder of an innocent woman by way of C4 (with one or two more Muslims responsible for this still hiding in the shadows).

2) An UMNO Muslim DPM who threatened to bathe his keris in blood of minorities (i.e. terrorist).

3) An UMNO Muslim Education Minister who raised his keris within the context of warning minorites (junior terrorist)

4) An UMNO ex-Minister who got caught groping buttocks at a bar (alcoholic butt-groping terrorist)

5) UMNO Minister sponsored National Service training camp where innocent children seem to be dropping like flies...16 or 19 so far in the short timespan of this stupid program's existence. (possible negligent manslaughter)

The list can go on, but let's stop there for now.

Islam's image in Malaysia can be improved tenfolds if UMNO is sent packing.
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written by LKO, May 09, 2008 04:24:43
Mimi, as Bunian and AsamLaksa commented, I have nothing against Islam or its practices. Religion starts with a personal belief and from that believe it translates into a way of life. If you think carefully, I amd sure you will agree with me.

For example, a persons acts like a Christian, goes to church, reads the Bible and do everything a Christian does; it still does not make him a Christian if he does not believes in his heart. I believe that is true for Islam too. A person that acts everything according to a religion does not make a true believer. So it is the heart that counts, and from the heart comes the real desire to do what you believe and that becomes your way of life.

So coming back to the point, how does a court decision makes any difference to a person's belief? In my opinion, I don't believe it carries any weight in God's judgement.
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written by Areyaar, May 09, 2008 04:26:23
written by sickofitall, May 08, 2008 | 23:42:38

"Finally, the right decision. There is no compulsion in Islam. While I personally disagree with her decision to renounce Islam, as a muslim I have no option but to respect her right to do so. Let God be her judge in the next life, not us"

Good to know a Muslim is ready to say such things and with such honesty. And if there is one, there must definitely be more. But this sudden turn about from their previous adamant stand on not allowing Muslims to leave Islam, comes with a cloud of vagueness. It a bit confusing. If a convert can leave Islam how different is that from a Muslim who is born a Muslim wanting to leave Islam?? Lina Joy was not a practicing Muslim either. She was very clear about that.
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written by roadbarra, May 09, 2008 04:28:32
I don't think she was ever against islam though but then a person should be free to decide by themself if they want to stay on iin the religion. It's by choice not by force.
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written by doggone, May 09, 2008 06:59:09
Dear Mimi,

If God (to each his own) wanted mankind to be robots (no otak, so can't make choices) he would have given us batteries instead.
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written by Littlebird, May 09, 2008 07:11:47
Did you say court declares women no longer a muslim? You mean the woman doesn't already know that ? You mean I need a third party to decide my relationship with god?

And did the court know at what point she ceased to be a muslim? Was she a muslim until the court says she's no longer one?

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written by hardworking_taxpayer, May 09, 2008 08:41:48
Mimi

Take a break! You think muslims do not criticise other faiths?! PLEASE! Why do muslims call us INFIDELS!!! Every religion in this world gets criticised by qualified or unqualified people whether you like it or not. But in this era, no other faiths reacts the way muslims do.
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written by Bigjoe99, May 09, 2008 08:43:03
What does this mean?- that if a born-Muslim also never practised the faith they can also do the same?

The reason just don't make much sense to me which further erodes my confidence in Islamic jurisprudence..
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written by alarcarte, May 09, 2008 09:02:40
Most Muslim convert are forced to convert because they fall in love with Malay Muslims and want to get married, it is also true that most of these converts do not practice Islam except not to eat pork out of respect for their Muslim spouse, but when their marriage got screwed up or when the Muslim spouse unfortunately died, do we expect them to remain Muslim for the rest of their life? For all we know their new potential spouse could be of any religion, therefore to let them leave Islam and follow the religion of their new partner is a fair decision.
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written by simply_say, May 09, 2008 09:25:25

"Toleration is the best religion."- Victor Hugo 1802-1885, French Poet, Dramatist, Novelist

Easily insert quotes and jokes into your writing at http://www.xlpert.com/quotes.htm
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written by slash n burn, May 09, 2008 09:25:29
Thank goodnes she is not stoned to death to be infidel. Seems that the fidels are getting waras..except Fidel Castro.
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written by aiyomanaboleh, May 09, 2008 09:36:06
Mimi wrote,

LKO, u may think it is silly, but religion is faith. Your belief. Your way of life. No matter what you are, Muslims, Christians or Buddhist, religion is never silly and certainly not something you wanna mess and make fun with. Afterall, there are still wars going on for hundreds of years until the present time just because of religion and places or worship.


So can I conclude that if the person do not have anymore faith in the religion, be it Islam, Christianity or others, that person is free to leave and seek out on his own, his destiny?

Maybe, it was wrong in the first place for that person to have enter the faith because she did it to just get married. The way I see it that someone is not worth to be inside anymore and steps should be taken quickly to release her.

I feel every good muslim which includes you should not disregard the comments of non muslims on the basis that non muslims do not practised the faith but should take it upon himself or herself to explain the issues.
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written by Birdbrain, May 09, 2008 09:45:22
Looks like we can check out after all! Maybe I should give "Hotel California" a try now that they allow us to check out anytime.

Welcome to the Hotel California!

Cuckoo!
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written by budakindia, May 09, 2008 09:50:02
malaysia long way to go in respecting human rights. I don't see this a new step towards non-Muslims but more of damage control for islam hadhari aka terrorists religion. what about temple destuction, body snatching, the God word, poisoning animals? smilies/angry.gif
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 10:20:15
This is one towering Syariah judge.

I will tell you something, this is very rare. If you go against a Jabatan Agama Islam or Majlis Agama Islam in Syariah court, your chances are 1 to 1000. This must be the 1 in 1000 cases.

So don't be too excited yet.

Not only the Syarie judge allow the convert to go back to her religion, but he rightly blame the Majlis Agama Islam for this. Muslims, like myself, also should share the blame.

His statement 'It is their obligation to encourage, support, help and ensure new converts understand and follow Islamic teachings.' is one towering Muslims should made.

Muslims, we should admit our mistakes.

So what about Lina Joy and Kamariah? It is no different. I bet many Muslims who are against their conversion have never in their life talk to them.

So if you guys don't know them, never talk to them, never know what their problems are, never care about them, why suddenly so busy body when they choose to convert?

But rest assure that this will only happen in Penang. You guys think PAS is accommodating?

Read this: http://ibrahimbaba.*********.com/

'Dalam sesi semalam, seorang kenalan IB, Dr. Puad Zakarshi (BN-Batu Pahat) mengesa agar akta bagi mengawal kes-kes murtad diadakan secepat mungkin bagi mengelak dari salah faham serta kekeliruan di kalangan orang ramai.

Cadangan beliau telah disambut baik dan disokong oleh dua orang wakil PAS, Us. Nasharuddin Mat Isa serta Us. Taib Azamudden.
'

Remember these names: Azimuddin Taib & Nasarudin Isa

And you think PAS really cares about UMNO's corruption and malpractices? Do you really think they care if UMNO is willing to put Islam this and that in our constitution and law?

These Islamist, when they are demonstrating against Artikel 11 group, claim that Artikel 11 does not respect our constitution. Yet, when cases like this, look at how heywire they become.

Read: http://n32.********.com/

Let's look at one of the comment from mimi;

'Other Muslims do not go around commenting how Christians and Buddhist practice their religion becuz we do not practice or study it.'


Hello Cik Mimi, I am a Muslim too lah. You think Muslims don't comment other religion? Not only they comment, they condemn them.

If you want every religion to itself, lets opt for a secular state. Then put a law to it where it is an offense to condemn any religion by anybody, I mean anybody including the Ustadz, the priest, the Sami and etc. Agree?
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written by johnnie, May 09, 2008 10:36:34
how come Lina Joy was not allow to do so?
is there a double standard? smilies/angry.gif
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written by MarchOn, May 09, 2008 10:41:23
The idea is let go of the small fishes and hang on for the big fish.

Mimi... get a grip on reality. Every religion (escpecially islam) must learn to take criticism. Don't go around blowing people or building when somebody wrote or draws about your religion.
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written by alan cheong, May 09, 2008 11:39:56
Othman Ibrahim, i doff me hat to you.

You are a true judge, worthy of respect.
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written by jshewsbury, May 09, 2008 12:05:23
Dear sickofitall,

I agree with you...Let God be the judge in the next life, not human not any courts not government or public opinion... let us choose what we want... I understand that you or maybe many other Muslin disagree with this but for respecting individual wish, will still make me respect the Muslim although I'm not a Muslim anymore (well not officially)

So can or should Lina Joy go to Syariah Court now?

I am the same as Lina Joy, born and raised as Muslim but as I grew up I just love to be Christian... is this means that I can go to Syariah Court and apply to officially become Christian and get on with my life as well ? I'm sick of hidding behind my Muslim name while the truth is I like to eat pork and go to church to see the Jesus I love and all I want is to leave happy and in peace with the religion I choose.

Thanks be to God that we see some changes now... May Malaysia stay peaceful and harmony with religious freedom.
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written by Malaysiaputra, May 09, 2008 12:18:47
Syarie High Court judge Othman Ibrahim, I take off my hat to you. What you have done is very noble in this case, I hope no one in the dept will penalise you for your landmark decision which is true justice for the applicant.

You show wisdom in this case. One can take a horse to the water but one cannot make it drink. Likewise one cannot force another to worship a god the person does not believe in or want to.

Let us have more of such rulings for those who want to leave the religion as God does not force one to believe but is given a choice to choose . As one is free to convert into, one should be free to leave. By allowing so, the genuine believers will remain and not the unbelievers.
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written by ponder, May 09, 2008 12:33:04
The courts cannot stop anyone converting from any religion to any religion of their own free will. Faith, after all, is something internalized. How can you stop something that is in someone's mind?

The most that a court can do is to determine that the conversion is voluntary, not forced upon by someone else.
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 12:42:37
Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 12:44:50
http://img505.imageshack.us/im...200gv7.jpg
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 12:52:11
http://www.perkid.net/v2/index...news&id=56
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written by JFR, May 09, 2008 12:58:05
I am glad the judge acted justly,rationally,logically,impartially and most importantly,courageously.This judge by his action speaks volumes in favour of Islam than a lot of externals alone.A breath of fresh air indeed.To my Muslim friends,this is not about who triumphed over who and please,this is not about Islam being under siege in this country.
To Mimi,I have heard comments like yours that only qualified people can comment or discuss religion correctly,even from the educated and professionals. Just wondering whether it is more satisfying to read God's word yourself and experience Him more personally than having to go through a more qualified intermediary. Would you care to comment on ijtihad or is that out of your training?
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written by Saint, May 09, 2008 13:08:24
This is the best policy for the fear of not being able to turn back is removed. Now if one of my friend becomes a Muslim, I will not bother too much - his into his and mine into mine and both can move back and forth without fear.

We need more time to allow the Islamic institutions to allow Malays to change religion - if they want to willingly, out of their own account.

It is not a matter of winning or loosing - but one of self enlightenment and freedom.
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written by Mark C, May 09, 2008 13:13:18
2008 seems to be the defining year in Malaysia's history. We have the PRU12 where BN lost it's 2/3 majority, we have the "out" coming of DSAI, we have RPK who is currently revered as our own malaysian Che Guevera, and now this.

History in the works.

I bet more good news is coming. smilies/wink.gif
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 13:15:52
Mimi,
To have fellow Muslims condemning me on what I tried to say, well...sigh. Hinduism also believes death to those who opts out of Hinduism, (not that they practice it..same like Islam here) yet no furore over that...


Same here. But that does not justify us in trying to use force upon those who choose to leave Islam.

I have a suggestion for you. First ask if there is any of companions who denounce Islam at the time of the Prophet, peace be upon him. Second, asked why there is no ruling on them. Third, go back to what Allah said on Aqidah or faith in the Quran. Maybe you can refer to 28:56. For interpretation, you can refer to Hadith relating this verse. Of if you want to blindly follow any Ustadz you know, you may refer to them.

Your choice.
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written by wag the dog, May 09, 2008 13:19:45
Compilation of Quotes on RPK - Bapa Bangsa Malaysia

Over the last three days most of us have gone through a rollercoaster ride over RPK's case and have posted comments on blogs. To honour This Towering Malaysian I have compiled some of the quotes in my blog so that these last three historic days are etched in our history.

Visit wwww.wagthedog-malaysia.********.com for details.
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written by Saint, May 09, 2008 13:27:38
Dear Mimi,
In the so called "Hindu" faith, even if you are an atheist, you will not be subjected to "hell or punishment" if you had adhered to universal laws. And "Hinduism" has universal laws " for you do not apply to convert or leave". It is as Muslims put, it "The will of God (ALLah), in your language. And "Hindus" also call their religion "a way of life".
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written by dinsmann, May 09, 2008 13:33:59
So much for zone gray ... and what about the skodeng rules?
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written by 98PercentPrimate, May 09, 2008 13:57:53
Firefighting again. Human problems can be prevented at source based on a general problem solving model.

Inputs -> processes -> outputs -> control

If the religious outputs are problematic, then we must revised the inputs and the processes of the religious processes.

Most of the worlds religions had already altered their inputs and processes, that is why there are lesser conflicts arising from their religious beliefs. One good example is Buddhism (btw i am not a buddhist)which is very dynamic and adaptive. We do not hear of Buddhist shouting "Buddha is great" and strike terrors on innocent people.

If any religion has problems or caused problems to others and humanity, then they should continually tune the inputs & religious processes against the results of the outputs.

One of the most critical input in the religious context is the ignorance of human nature, how the complex brain/mind and consciousness works that contribute to problems of mankind.

If is no point being an ostrich sticking to rigid inputs and processes and hope outputs will change positively.
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written by teo siew chin, May 09, 2008 14:08:21
Dear Alhadee

Thank you for your comments. How come Muslims of your understanding and temperament seem to be few and far between? I believe there are many like you but they choose to be silent. Please encourage them to speak up. I look forward to further views from you.

Salam.
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written by fairnessforall, May 09, 2008 14:52:46
Mimi, please do not talk crap and please get your facts right. Hinduism does not believe in death for those who opt out of hinduism. In fact hinduism is the only religion which does not believe in conversions. You need not convert to be a hindu or to follow a hinduim way of life. Hinduism respects all religion and has no where is it stated that anyone who wants to convert to another religion has to die, that is why despite being the oldest living religion, islam still managed to take over with more muslims because the muslims killed and forced people to convert. Dont forget when the moghuls invaded india, they killed all who did not agree to convert to islam and that is why they are the 2nd largest religion in the world not because people converted out of love for the religion but out of force.

Seems that you dont even know about your own religion islam, so what would you know about any other religion.
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written by Somewhere I Belong, May 09, 2008 15:55:40
The Malay start to many Bidaah already. One of them, by becoming a peeping tom! Now they going to have THE OFFICER OF PEEPING TOM or The AUTHORIZE PEEPING TOM! For god sake, don't you guys have other things to do besides being a peeping tom!

Al-Quran already stated that you're not suppose 'mengintai' or 'mengfitnah'. Al-Quran, Surah Al-Hujuraat and An-Nuur already stated so.

Surah al-Hujuraat (49:12)

12]
Wahai orang-orang yang beriman! Jauhilah kebanyakan dari sangkaan (supaya kamu tidak menyangka sangkaan yang dilarang) kerana sesungguhnya sebahagian dari sangkaan itu adalah dosa; dan janganlah kamu mengintip atau mencari-cari kesalahan dan keaiban orang; dan janganlah setengah kamu mengumpat setengahnya yang lain. Adakah seseorang dari kamu suka memakan daging saudaranya yang telah mati? (Jika demikian keadaan mengumpat) maka sudah tentu kamu jijik kepadanya. (Oleh itu, patuhilah larangan-larangan yang tersebut) dan bertaqwalah kamu kepada Allah; sesungguhnya Allah Penerima taubat, lagi Maha mengasihani.


Surah An-Nur (24:27-2smilies/cool.gif

[27]
Wahai orang-orang yang beriman, janganlah kamu masuk ke dalam mana-mana rumah yang bukan rumah kamu, sehingga kamu lebih dahulu meminta izin serta memberi salam kepada penduduknya; yang demikian adalah lebih baik bagi kamu, supaya kamu beringat (mematuhi cara dan peraturan yang sopan itu).
[28]
Maka sekiranya kamu tidak mendapati sesiapa (yang berhak memberi izin) maka janganlah masuk ke dalam rumah itu sehingga kamu diberi izin; dan jika dikatakan kepada kamu "baliklah", maka hendaklah kamu berundur balik; cara yang demikian adalah lebih suci bagi kamu; dan (ingatlah) Allah Maha Mengetahui akan apa yang kamu lakukan.


Another thing, mualaf supposed to receive wang zakat. So what happen to wang zakat?
smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif

Think about it laaa
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written by AsamLaksa, May 09, 2008 18:50:10
Hinduism and Bhuddism (plus Confucianism and Taoism) have little or no such thing as a formal conversion. You can enter and leave without anyone noticing.

For those commenting on Lina Joy, Lina Joy haven't gone to the syariah courts to get the apostasy status. Why is that? There is enough fear that it may spark problems with the community and also may risk her safety. A almost similar case resulted in the religious authorities apprehending a Malay girl and sending her for forced religious rehab. Is religious rehab after the fact someone declares they want to apostate justified? Is been like over 10 years Lina Joy has been practising Christianity, what are her chances to gain apostasy in the syariah courts seeing that she is a born Muslim?

In the above Siti's case, her application was submitted in 2006. Close to 2 years the religious authorities did not care and so rightly the judge told them off. Siti had to wait for 2 years too and finally she can move on. What of other wannabe apostates who have been hiding for many many years... can they move on? How could Lina Joy marry her Christian boyfriend without getting any of them into trouble with the religious autorities?

On suggestion that wannabe converts be given more religious education so that they do not convert just because they want to marry a Muslim, I ask, how is this practical? If you create a compulsion to convert before you can marry a Muslim, then the motive for conversion will always be questionable. The other point is that how can you ever test if the motive is of the right sort?

Some Christian groups addressed this problem (some Christian denominations discourage marriage outside of their denomination) by instilling the practice of discouraging their members from dating outside their faith to begin with. Is this right? Maybe so because it lacks any form of public authority or public institution enforcing it thus it becomes a personal choice to adhere or not. But I still say maybe so because there's an element of religious coercion. Christianity however allows an exit so the issue is about if the person still have faith rather than if the person is afraid of persecution.

In some aspect this masuk Islam to kahwin dengan orang Islam is quite a joke. I know of such converts who do not practice aspects of Islamic life. In fact one of them got called up by the religious authorities and was given more Islamic education which is rightly so since the person professed to Islam but this became more of a joke because they didn't call up the Muslim spouse who continues to lead his un-Islamic way or life. Funny how the religious authority did not deal with the couple as a whole but only with the convert.

On the personal note of this particular convert, she claimed that she converted only to marry her Muslim boyfriend and both of them as a couple did not intend to practice many aspects of a Muslim life as he didn't follow such (a case of misrepresentation?). How can you address this?

Just think about it.
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written by alhadee, May 09, 2008 23:49:02
Mimi's

Thank you alhadee. Actually I plan to ask around on this matter before commenting further and sparking another uproar.

All the best.

does not impose force on Muslim and non Muslim alike despite what all of you out there would like to believe


Come on la. I am a Muslim and it is my choice to remain be. Islam is reasonable, correct! correct! correct! But Malays are not!

There are so much negativity surrounding Islam ths days that you say half sentence condemning it and droves would support it, Muslims and non Muslims


I never view Islam in negative light. I only criticize Muslims especially Malays. Please differentiate Islam and Muslims.

Let me give you one example lah. The Prophet says if you go to sleep and your neighbour is hungry, you are not a Mukmin or a believer. Ask yourself how many of us, Muslims everyday go and check if our neighbour have enough food? Be honest ok?

Most Malays will only become busy body with their neighbour if their neigbour got some handsome or beautiful visitors of the opposite sex. And then they will start to call JAWI/JAIS asking the skodeng squad to come.

Back to the hunger thing lah ok, the idea of Islam is not only about a state, but as an Ummah. What I mentioned above is only one of the many Amal Marufs. It is a close knit Ummah, everyone help each other. Get it so far?

But majority of the Malays failed to perform many of these Amal Marufs. But look at these Islamists fools, calling for hudud to chop hands of thieves. Hello lah encik, you don't make sure your neighbour get enough food, now you want to chop his hand if he steals?

Gila kah? Fine is already appropriate lah. No need for Hudud. And if you think neigbour in Islam means just the house at the front, back and next to you, think again.

Go and learn about the foundation of the early ummah. Learn about the Amal Maruf that they performed. Keep in mind that Allah is fair. And you will understand why we have people converting to Islam in droves unlike what you seen nowadays in Malaysia. You can either do your own research or refer to any Ustadz, that is up to you ok?

In view of the current attitude of Malays, our best choice lies in a secular state. To each on its own. Give everyone religious freedom. Let them be what they want to be, be it Muslims, Christians, Buddhist. I know it is sad to see Malays denouncing Islam, but persecuting them is not the solution.

And meanwhile, Muslim Malays, you all got to do some soul searching.


teo siew chin,

whoa! That is fast! I think you will take it back once I start cursing!


Somewhere I Belong,

Another thing, mualaf supposed to receive wang zakat. So what happen to wang zakat?


Hasan Ali, Selangor's PAS Commissioner plans to donate them to PEKIDA thugs.

Read: http://www.perkid.net/v2/index...news&id=56

You should read Roslan SMS blog. You can see him go haywire. That idiot call for full enforcement. Punish! Punish! Punish! That is how Malay thinks. KPG.COM !

If he is so concern about the Mualaf denouncing Islam, the first thing he should do is to call for transparency as far as Zakat money is concerned. Call for the account to be published publicly. Ask how much has been spent for the Mualaf who deserve the money. After all, Hasan Ali the PAS Commissioner is the exco in charge of JAIS right now.

I really hope he does not have any personal plan for that Zakat money. And please dont use that money to hire gangsters ok Datuk?
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written by teo siew chin, May 10, 2008 00:15:53
Aldahee - i honestly do not think you are the cussing kind!
You surely do not need to do so when you can present your case so eloquently, so calmly - perhaps it is because you know the truth, and that is what gives you strength,tolerance and patience with those who are ignorant or lost.

Many a good cause is lost becos of anger, impulsiveness, immaturity.

You are holding up well, so stay cool and keep up the good work!
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written by Sabahfan, May 10, 2008 00:58:11
written by Mimi, May 09, 2008 | 01:35:06
Most of your perceptions of Islam are wht you make of based on Western media or those who know Islam just by touching the surface.


MIMI... just pretending to be stupid kah?
Your vain attempt to defend the stupid malay moslem is laughable...

Moslems dont talk bad about other religion> Ka kah kah... U never watch RTM???
Remember they even lied that Sabah Joseph Kitingan gave Tungku Razaleigh a headress SIGA with a cross on it? aaah forgotten, but not me...

Yes, I have no problem of ISLAM being a way of life for moslems, for malays, whatever... You have the right to make it a way of life for those who chose to be a moslem... But in reality, isnt MALAZUTland trying to impose you WAY OF LIFE to others?? forcefully, sometimes subtly....

examples... All women at govt office must wear malays dress such as baju kurung.. so if a non moslem wearing a baju kurung goes to lunch during the month of ramadhan, the Jakim can then harass them thus introducing them to the rules of ISLAM.. sickening....!!!

In parliment, must wear the symbolic malay moslem dress..

At school, only islam is allowed to be taught...

In non moslem school, if one or more moslem student enroll then education dept policy demands that an imam or other religious teachers MUST be employed in the school, really just for the one or two moslem student.. OR is it to start influencing the rest to convert???

there is plenty of example where your BN govt uses subtle tactics TO FORCE OTHERS TO FOLLOW THE ISLAMIC WAY OF LIFE.... bullshitlah MIMI

and if we are a bunch of angry lot... yes.. cos malazut govt has given us a million reasons to be angry....

HEY NAJIB.... this has been another one of those SEDITIOUS posting...!!!
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written by Sabahfan, May 10, 2008 01:01:40
One other thing... Only malaysia seems to be enforcing the Islam first polichy.

even the cartoon movie "prince of egypt" banned because it shows a little bit of christianity in it...

but this cd freeely shown in arab saudi..??

toooooom many rules from islam...

another seditous posting??
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written by cillipepper, May 10, 2008 08:13:46
Dear Tan Ean Huang,

The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will).

To be chosen by Almighty Allah to be Muslim is considered the greatest honor that the Creator can bestow on any of His creatures.

To abandon such a great gift, then, is for many Muslims difficult, not only for the harm and the damage that it can do to the rest of the Muslim community, but also to the person who would wish to abandon the plan of His Creator.

The very abandoning of Islam was already a kind of death to the human soul, more to be pitied and despised than punished.
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written by cillipepper, May 10, 2008 09:59:18
Dear Apostate,

16:106 Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Chastisement.

16:107 This because they love the life of this world better than the Hereafter: and Allah will not guide those who reject Faith.

16:108 Those are they whose hearts, ears, and eyes Allah has sealed up, and they take no heed.

16:109 Without doubt, in the Hereafter they will be the losers.

"Truly, Madinah gets rid of its filth(apostate) exactly as fire removes the filth of iron." (Al-Bukhari)


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written by cillipepper, May 10, 2008 10:36:25
Dear Friends,

Accept Allah's choice.

5:3...This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islám as your religion...
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