A+ | A- | Reset
Home arrow The Blogs arrow Letters/Surat arrow CTOS is hurting the reputation of the public and should be deregistered

CTOS is hurting the reputation of the public and should be deregistered PDF Print
Saturday, 12 April 2008 18:43

To any YB who could help us SME businessmen

First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you all who are elected to the Penang State Assembly.

As a Jelutong constituent, the outcome of the just concluded 12th General Election has been a dream come true for all of us in Penang. Although the party (DAP) is not short of congratulations at this moment, especially from many corporate figures and local big businessmen whom securing an appointment with them were uphill task before the election, the congratulations from grass root is far more meaningful.

What I would like to highlight to you are cases which plight the local small businessmen, especially from SMEs, and also normal working people like myself. We have been indebted to business partners when the business was down immediate after the 1997 crisis, and the cases were brought to court. The proceedings were recorded without our knowledge to some private credit rating agencies, one of them is CTOS. The record, in turn was sold to financial institutions, what ensued was that the future loan applications were denied based on the ground that our credit worthiness was dented.

The debt was finally settled, and the creditor has allowed and issued a release letter stating that I was released for good. In order to clear the name and ensure future loan applications, I sent a letter (the release letter from the creditor) to CTOS, to inform that the debt has been cleared and therefore the name should be erased from the record. This is to ensure that a small businessman like me, and some of my partners, could “survive” again.

However, the request has been turned down, through a letter issued by CTOS, stating that the record will not be erased from the databank. The excuse is that the record will be referred again and again by future referrers, as this is a better way than without any record at all (it means without CTOS, there is never a credit record book). When pressed further, it is revealed that the record was taken from local newspaper, whenever there is a proceeding, and then sold to the private financial institutions.

Our concern is that, even with the debt settled, we are still burdened with our poor credit rating, and therefore, we are still not eligible for the loans, or the names are forever branded as poor rated debtors and are not entitled to apply for fresh loan.

Many complaints and dissatisfactions are channeled to the company through explanations since the settlement, but the eventual business profits are still the most important; selling our credit records to financial institutions without our knowledge, even this compromises our reputation and capability in future dealing. Under this environment, we find that normal citizens, working populations, are pressed, and are constantly stepped by these big corporate businessmen while building their huge profit. We have no where to turn to channel our frustration and highlight this unfairness except asking help from you to investigate if the current regulations allow the existence of such company like CTOS, can it sell the records to the financial institutions (although now, they have to consult individual before logging into the personal record, the institutions seldom do so), should the record of the settled debts be erased permanently from the CTOS, and what other alternatives we could take in order to erase the records.

If need arises, I can equip YB with the necessary letters and documents to support the arguments.

From Jonny Chan

Comments (30)Add Comment
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by andywongkch, April 12, 2008 19:27:31
listen, credit agencies shouldget report from financial institutions instead of mixed info to include newspaper which are not very reliable.

The credit agencies must be reliable and the govt must be able to monitor their activities as well.

In developed countries, public debts (with or without settlements) are NOt allowed to be shown after 7 years or so. This is to give to those who was not able to manage their finance well enough anoher chance.

Does Chapter 13 ring any bell to anyone? Once u declare bankcrupcy, you are a free man again without further debt obligations and the record will be erased ater 10 years i believe.

Cheers folks
report abuse
disagree 9
agree 15
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by fairnessforall, April 12, 2008 20:40:28
Having a way to check credit ratings are good only if our banking systems and policies are good as well. Currently banks only go after small timers wheres the big timers, ministers and people with contacts get away easy as the banks very frequently write off the big timers loan amount, so what record is there of these big timers who take loans in millions and have no bad record. Only the small timer who is struggling to make ends meet end up in CTOS mostly and they are genuine cases who many not be able to pay, unlike those big timers and ministers who can pay but just dont want to.

For those who dont know, every year banks prepare a provision report whereby doubtful loans are recommended to be written off. Usually you will find that the loans recommended to be written off are of those big timers taken in millions. However banks will choose to chase like a dog the small timer who probably owes them RM10,000 or below RM50,000 and so much money is wasted chasing these poor people and sending debt collectors to harrass them. These poor people who probably are not able to pay due to being jobless or their business not doing well are not given a break. However the bank never sends debt collectors to those so called big timers who take loans in millions but instead write off the debt thereby letting those people who are in a position to pay but just do not want to, to get off scott free with no bad record, while the poor borrower is harrassed.

Bank Negara should come up with proper rules and regulations on provisions and loans written off. Also when a person does not pay for few months, as it is already they are having financial problems and what the bank does is charge them penalty interest killing them even more. Thus an initial loan of RM10,000 may in a year or so become RM20,000 with all the late payment charges and penalty interest which is rediculous.

Instead banks should suspend the loan amount and try to recover that amount as if its difficult to recover the initial amount, why make it even more difficult by adding on to that.

I worked in a bank for 20years and have seen how poor people who really cant pay are harrassed, their houses auctioned off while the big shots get off scott free and it really pained me seeing this poor people being harassed for RM50,000 while ministers and big shots loans of millions are written off. Have even seen a poor malay man bring a parang our to stop his house from being auction off, and I feel really sorry for these people. Banks should be more people friends and instead help them sincerely especially those who really want to settle the loan but unable too. With all the accumulated interest, it makes it even more difficult for them.

I think its time Bank Negara come up with proper procedures on what loans to write off and also more decent ways to discuss with defaulters to make it easy for them to settle the loan. this will be a win win situation and will reduce the bad debts. From my experience, the small timer usually are not the ones who do not want to pay, instead they do want to settle the loans but due to financial problems and many losing their job, they are unable too, so there should be some kind of consession for genuine cases of those losing their job or being jobless or even those due to any other genuine reasons.
report abuse
disagree 6
agree 33
...
written by donplay, April 12, 2008 20:42:57
There is nothing illegal or undesirable with CTOS' basic biz model.

In this age of off & on-line office and credit cards frauds, embezzlements, CBT and $2 companies, it is absolutely essential that financial institutions carry out a credit check and do a credit rating on potential borrowers. In the West, many lenders rely on prestigious credit rating companies such as Dunn & Bradstree, which are private sector firms.

What is wrong with CTOS is that it does not update its records where debts are cleared, settled or where a person has been discharged from his debt or found to be completely innocent. Much of this information may not be reported in the newspapers, while the issue of the original summons will always be advertised in the NST and/or STAR.

The law should therefore be amended so that if CTOS does not by itself, or at the urging of an individual found to be innocent or discharged, up-date its records within a reasonable time frame, say 30 days after it has been offered proof, that individual or organisation should then have the right to sue CTOS for compensation and CTOS should be compelled by court order to up-date its records forthwith.

But, CTOS's records should never be permanently erased. If you are a financial institution or lender, you want to know the credit history of a potential borrower. Ther's no two ways about it. There are simply too many crooks around who will cheat you for the next $50.00!!

So, tough luck Johnny Chan. I sympathise with you, especially since I myself had a problem with CTOS over a matter I was completely innocent of, and only found out when I applied for a car loan with a bank. But Credit Rating Agencies have a very important function in modern society.
report abuse
disagree 7
agree 22
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by ohuat, April 12, 2008 22:30:10
In US, once you bounced a cheque, it is automatically a criminal case. Police will come knocking at your door. No need to go to court and fight for years. During my university day in Columbus, Ohio, i used to issue cheque for amount as little as USD20.00 by showing my student ID. That simple.
report abuse
disagree 2
agree 9
...
written by temenggong, April 12, 2008 23:02:56
We need CTOS. But it has to be made an institution (like the ROC) and not a private business.
report abuse
disagree 4
agree 10
...
written by aiyomanaboleh, April 12, 2008 23:06:01
Some form of referencing is needed for healthty growth of businesses.

Those in favour above have stressed that without this referencing, their businesses may be affected by it. But tell me how many of you, after vetting the ctos report and found that your propective client had a previous settled debt, still wants to do business with that chap? You are most likely to be thinking "why take the risk?" Financial institutions are the first to deny this attitude but many who are affected by it know better. Outright rejection or higher interest rate and additional security are normally imposed under the pretext of this.

I can understand the feelings of those geniune people who are affected by these records. It is worse that a birth mark, ugly birth marks or defects can be erased or remedied by operation but once your name goes into one of these referencing records, it's "brother can you spare a dime?" Now, for those who look at these records as the main determinant, is it fair to those who wants to make a comeback?

A lot of these people caught in this web are not bad people or con men. They are ordinary people like you and me but because of some bad decisions have resulted in this dire state they are in. Leaving them out in the cold because of a bad referencing record is not gonna help society as a whole. These pool of people will increase as the years go by and in the end businesses will have less customers to sell their products to. Just like what are trying to convince society to take back ex criminals and drug addicts, this group of people are worth helping. By helping, we are taking away a problem and turning it into a solution.

So, the question is how can society help these people?. Firstly, I think the reporting agencies have to do its part by having a cut of period of how long their records are valid. By this, debtors or bankrupt who have settled their dues will be entitled to have names erased from the agencies within certain time. Those that have not been able to settle their dues will need to either talk with their creditors or if they are bankrupts petition the court for a discharge. Bank Negara have also set up a consultative agency to look into restructing credit card debts and some banks have their own inhouse guideline as to a percentage settlement of the full debt.

Help here is just lifting their names of the records of these referencing agencies and nothing more. These group of people will have to find their way on their own and hopefully will succeed this time round.
report abuse
disagree 0
agree 4
...
written by raven1958, April 12, 2008 23:29:20
Havent they shot the CTOS directors and burnt their employees alive yet.....these are a bunch of arseholes who lord over other people's miseries. Personal information sold by whatever means in the Malaysian climate of an idiotic banking and judicial system is just like Somalia saying they need to launch a rocket to the moon when there is civil war out on the streets.....Credit referencing is a con for CTOS to make money...and they will be removed and prosecuted once the PR takes over from the BN as they survive only because a few BN cabinet ministers and Bank Negara officials are their silent supporters. The backlash to CTOS will see that their directors are hunted down like the criminals that rightly are.....cannot wait for the day when for BN to crash...which could be anytime now.....
report abuse
disagree 4
agree 3
...
written by hitam had, April 12, 2008 23:29:52
Who says banks need CTOS to help them lend money??

Just ask the banks to refer all cases to the politicians (not the PK as they are not powderful enough) and dish out the money as advised.

Pax.
report abuse
disagree 1
agree 3
...
written by mikewang, April 12, 2008 23:39:22
CTOS is there to protect the public.

I don't support the total erasure of past records on the credibility of a person or company even though he may have eventually settled all his debts after defaulting on them.

If you have a bad record before, the onus is on you to convince your new creditors and bankers.
report abuse
disagree 6
agree 10
...
written by qitaro, April 13, 2008 01:35:32
Too bad your name is in the record, Jonny Chan ...

This is a lesson to you ... in future, you just gotta use your brain and think carefully before taking a loan ... and you gotta open your eyes bigger and less gullible before making a new friend.

Look on the bright side, I have customers who are now successful Datuks. They too had their names inside CTOS but after 10-15 years of doing clean, honest business ... I can even extend 90days credit term to them.

If you can stay clean and honest, I'm sure you will still make it despite having a record with CTOS.
report abuse
disagree 7
agree 8
...
written by artchan, April 13, 2008 03:38:37
raven1958, April 12, 2008 | 23:29:20
".....Credit referencing is a con for CTOS to make money..."

======================================================= =====
What con are you referring to. If you do not think they cannot be of service..do not subscribe to their service. No way they can con you...unless you allow them to.
report abuse
disagree 2
agree 3
...
written by MasterYoda, April 13, 2008 04:03:47
Jonny Chan,

What CTOS is doing is exactly what BANK NEGARA will do (CCRIS). Let me give you an anology: If you have been fined for a traffic offense or sued in court over a an issue, the RECORD will stay with you as long as you live. No doubt! there is no way to expunge the records. Never!

Similarly, you must understand that althought you have settled the outstanding debt, cleared your name from the 'Blacklist' of Bank Negara, you will be on the internal blacklist of that particular bank which you had a bad debt! some banks may bar you from taking applying from the same product or all thier products depending in the internal policy.

Bank Negara policies cover a general platform for all banks but each bank have thier own internal poicies which cover detailed issues.

So, you have to build up your credit rating again from scratch. DONT expect to be able to qualify for a facilty / loan if you have just settled a BAD debt.
The bank have a risk management department. To them, you will be considered "risky". again you must understand that bank want to make INTEREST not suffer a bad debt.

So it will be wise for your to build up your CREDIT RATING again and admit that at some point i n your business, you were a bad paymaster - irrigardless of the reason for season. please dont blame CTOS, the Banks or BANK NEGARA
report abuse
disagree 2
agree 5
...
written by Woman in Malaysia, April 13, 2008 11:32:39
Jonny, how can you say CTOS is hurting the reputation of the public? The information in CTOS is very much needed by banks to help them make informed decisions. Since there are no laws telling credit rating agencies in Malaysia when to erase records, why should they? After all, banks want to know the credit history of its borrowers and guarantors.

It is not true that once your name is in CTOS, your loan application is automatically rejected. I used to work in a bank. If you can show that you have a reliable source of repayment, have a viable business and meet the credit evaluation criteria, your loan will be granted.

Don't forget - banks also need to safeguard the depositors' money: our hard earned money placed in savings or fixed deposits. Look at the sub-prime crisis in the US.
report abuse
disagree 1
agree 2
...
written by Wisdom above, April 13, 2008 11:35:57
How to get 'free credit rating' from Bank Negara ?

Many of you guys & gals think Bank Negara very efficient?

Assuming CTOS become a private club owned by Banks themselves exclusively for registered members banks usage.

CTOS started by ex-bankers was initially not meant for public to access.

The banks themselves will definitely start CTOS-2 to self service their own internal banking needs & use.

So how to get 'free credit rating' from Bank Negara ?

Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

report abuse
disagree 0
agree 1
...
written by raven1958, April 13, 2008 12:55:49
artchan,
What con are you referring to. If you do not think they cannot be of service..do not subscribe to their service. No way they can con you...unless you allow them to.

Next time your mother and daughter and sister are gangraped....I will have no hesitation selling their sexual misfortunes to everyone in the neighbourhood ...for a price if it is worth it....
report abuse
disagree 1
agree 0
...
written by artchan, April 13, 2008 17:19:27
raven oh raven..

getting raped and getting conned is two different things (esp if you sign up willingly)....if you can't differentiate..you deserved to be conned...have a nice day..
report abuse
disagree 0
agree 1
...
written by Xerxes, April 13, 2008 18:24:13
I see that there are many people for or against CTOS. I can see the relevance of CTOS if the case was genuinely bad credit but I was a victim of wrong identity.

Years ago, another person whose name happened to be spelt exactly the same as mine was declared a bankrupt. This case went into CTOS records. Those days, they were reported in the newspapers without I/C numbers. So today, whenever any financial institutions runs a credit check of me with CTOS, my name is blacklisted. My lawyers have written to CTOS to amend their records but they insist on their right to publish information that is in the public domain. I finally solved my problem with a written clarification from the Public Trustee that the bankrupt and I are two different persons.
report abuse
disagree 1
agree 0
...
written by apanama, April 14, 2008 15:56:40
the very BEING of CTOS is ILLEGAL.
how can the personal data of you and me be accessible by another party other than your banks, credit card companies or bank negara malaysia?

this is SIMPLY an intrusion of privacy.
how can you start a business by breaking into someone else's personal information?

and CTOS had the gall of selling such personal info for profit!! fukc man.
report abuse
disagree 1
agree 0
...
written by artchan, April 14, 2008 19:02:12
apanama...

CTOS just collected the info from newspapers....court notices...bankruptcy notices...so you should get angry with the courts...not CTOS..
report abuse
disagree 0
agree 1
...
written by artchan, April 14, 2008 19:03:06
if it is an illegal company..the govt should close it. The govt has not closed it..so it is not illegal.
report abuse
disagree 0
agree 1

Write comment
This content has been locked. You can no longer post any comment.
You must be logged in to a comment. Please register if you do not have an account yet.

busy
 
< Prev   Next >
 

Sponsored Links

World Futures  Moscow's Middle East conference: Should the Muslims depend only on the US to solve the Palestine crisis?

Future Fastforward  A controversial analysis by a controversial analyst, Matthias Chang, the lawyer-writer who unabashedly calls a spade a spade and offers no apology for doing so.

Internet TV 3000+ Channels  Pick your favorite internet TV channels straight to your PC! Yay!

Some Images Hosted With
Thank You ImageShack!
 BLOGGERS AGAINST ISA

Powered and Optimized for:
Malaysia Today by MT-TEAM