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Coming of age PDF Print
Sunday, 06 April 2008 15:40

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It is no point in screaming that the powers-that-be does not respect and tolerate freedom of thought, freedom of expression, and freedom of association, when we are no better. We are able to see all the faults of those in power but we fail to see that we are just the same.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin 

Bloggers: Khaled should try writing his own blog
By: RAJA ISKANDAR, Shah Alam (letter to NST)

I am writing this in reply to the comments on bloggers by Higher Education Minister Datuk Seri Mohamed Khaled Nordin ("Bloggers must be fair" - NST, March 30, 2008).

Khaled's challenge to bloggers to face the truth by posting the government's responses and comments instead of giving one-sided commentaries shows how little he knows about blogging.

As a blogger, I find that blogging is not merely about reporting but more about commenting on an issue. Blogging is an avenue for individuals to express their views on subjects that they hold dear, be it political or personal. In other words, we are columnists in our own space.

For all I know, every day or every other day a new blog or blogger will appear.

These are individuals who are not afraid to talk about their ideas and disseminate them. The authorities will find it difficult to keep them in check. Therefore, the question of bloggers not giving fair coverage to all sides does not arise. Bloggers are only writing with their hearts.

I urge Khaled to be reasonable and not blame bloggers for Barisan Nasional's election setbacks. It would be better for him to concentrate on rebuilding and restructuring the party. Perhaps he should write a blog of his own.

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written by Balasundaram, April 05, 2008
I am afraid that RPK is harming his own cause by degenerating into inconsequential and irrelevant trivialities. TAKE A BREAK RPK! More troubling is that your credibility has become suspect like AAB.

written by wongnoball, April 05, 2008
Dear RPK,

Your story about Tun Salleh Abbas was sacked by the then Agong is quite irrational, absurd and ridiculous lah.

written by FFT, April 05, 2008
Is this your idea of a belated April Fool's joke?

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It is not just Khaled Nordin who suffers from the low-tolerance-of-other-people’s-views syndrome. The more ‘seasoned’ bloggers in Malaysia Today also suffer from the same thing.

People want to only hear what they agree with. If you write or say something that differs from their view, they would get very vocal -- and even violent if the occasion permits. Look at what happened to the poor chap, the Umno Youth division leader from Kuala Lumpur, in the recent Umno gathering at the Singgahsana Hotel in Petaling Jaya. He expressed a view. And his view was that to strengthen Umno and to restore its lost fortunes, maybe the party should consider allowing Anwar Ibrahim back into the fold.

The frail chap was dragged outside by three or four of the ‘security’ personnel and roughed up. A plainclothes police officer just stood by and watched while the assault was going on. When one of the Umno Lembah Pantai branch leaders intervened, the police officer flashed his ‘authority card’ in an attempt to intimidate the Lembah Pantai chap. “Saya polis!” he shouted.

But the Lembah Pantai chap was not intimidated. Instead, he told the police officer that if he really is a police officer as he says he is then he should stop the gang of bouncers from beating up the hapless chap who was clearly not offering any resistance and was not fighting back. The police officer then stepped in and ordered them to cease the assault.

The Lembah Pantai chap stood guard until the bruised chap could leave the hotel compound. The gang appeared to have not had enough (tak lepas geram) so they might have rushed the chap to finish the job. Only after the chap had disappeared over the horizon did the Lembah Pantai chap come back into the hall.

It is not surprising, really, when Umno demonstrates a very low tolerance to people expressing their own views. After all, Umno is infamous for not respecting freedom of speech. But while those in the opposition ridicule Umno, they fail to realise that those in the opposition are no more tolerant than the Umno chaps.

That is one reason I choose to remain ‘independent’ rather than play an active role in politics. Sure, I support the opposition. But I support the opposition only as far as they remain an opposition. I am really not sure whether I want the opposition to become the government. Better they remain an opposition, but a strong opposition at that, rather than they become the government and we discover that they are no better than Barisan Nasional, or, heaven forbid, even worse.

I have not seen any evidence that the opposition really supports freedom of speech or respect others’ rights to their own opinion or views. What I have seen instead is evidence of the opposite -- and, that is, the opposition is no better than Barisan Nasional when it comes to someone expressing something that runs opposite to what they believe in.

Many ask me why Malaysia Today allows articles, letters and opinion pieces on religion. They point out that all you need to do is post one article on religion and the comments will run into the hundreds. And it is not only that the comments are many, it is also that the comments are very ‘hot’ and borders on ‘rioting’.

Actually, Malays or Muslims are not the only intolerant lot. Non-Malays and non-Muslims are also the same. Of course, the non-Malays or non-Muslims just love to whack Islam whenever an article on Islam is published. They regard it as freedom of expression and treat it as their ‘right’ to whack. The Malays or Muslims, on the other hand, consider it an insult to their religion. But try posting an article criticising Christianity or the Bible and you will get the same reaction from the non-Malay Christians. Suddenly, freedom of expression and right to comment no longer apply.

Well, until Malaysians are able to debate intelligently and are able to respect the feelings of others, plus respect the opposing opinion of others, then we have not come of age yet. We talk about tolerance but tolerance is the last thing that Malaysians possess. How do we build a civil society or masyarakat madani when we are not civilised enough in the manner we treat those with opposing views?

And that is why I allow (some say encourage) articles, letters and opinion pieces on religion. If we can bridge the divide on religion, then we can bridge any divide. Religion is the hardest issue to agree on. It is even worse than race. And if the opposition coalition, Pakatan Rakyat, ever breaks up, it will be because of religion and for no other reason.

So we need to live with the fact that we are of many religions. We need to understand that this diversity can be our failure in achieving a united Malaysia. And we need to know how to handle this ‘problem’ so that it does not explode into a conflict.

We feel we know, therefore we do not tolerate what is opposite to what we know. But do we really know or do we just believe? Knowing and believing are two different things. But most times we confuse one for the other. I know this sounds confusing so let me demonstrate what I mean.

Do we know that there is a God or do we just believe that there is one? We act and talk as if we know that there is a God -- which makes us condescending, pompous and holier than thou -- whereas we don’t really know, we just believe. There is a difference between knowing and believing but we regard ‘believing’ as ‘knowing’ and therefore any belief (opinion, view, etc.) opposite to ours is violently opposed.

How can you know that there is a God when you have never seen Him? But you have been taught from very young to believe in God so you grow up with this belief. And you want others to believe what you believe and when someone expresses an opinion that is opposite to this belief it makes you very hot and bothered.

Let us now assume that others also believe in God, but they believe in a ‘different God’ from yours. This is also taken as an issue. That person, just like you, was indoctrinated from very young to believe in his God, just like how you were brought up to believe in yours. So can you blame this person for believing in a different God from yours? It is not his fault just like it is not yours. You are both victims of indoctrination.

Of course, you believe he is wrong and you are right. But then he too believes he is right and that you are wrong. So can’t we just accept the fact that we believe in different things and leave it at that? Why must this difference in belief and opinion be the cause for conflict?

As I said, beliefs are beliefs. You believe because you have been raised to believe so. But you still don’t really know whether your belief is right. You believe your belief is right but you don’t know. So where do you come off treating beliefs as if you know and then you whack the other person because he goes against what you believe in?

Okay, religion is more complex. Let us look at a ‘simpler’ thing like politics (simpler only when compared to religion but still complex nevertheless).

We have in our midst nationalists, socialists, royalists, Islamists, republicans, democrats, and everything under the sun. So we choose to follow the party that stands for what we believe in. And because of that we have Umno, PKR, DAP, PAS and much more. But are they the enemy if they subscribe to what we do not subscribe to?

Umno is not the enemy. Abuse of power and corruption is. PAS is not the enemy. Imposing your religious beliefs on others and denying them their right to their own religion is. And so on and so forth. So don’t oppose them for their ideology. Oppose them when they violate your fundamental human rights and civil liberties. Oppose them when they ruin this country. Oppose them when they persecute and discriminate. And so on and so forth.

It is no point in screaming that the powers-that-be does not respect and tolerate freedom of thought, freedom of expression and freedom of association when we are no better. We are able to see all the faults of those in power but we fail to see that we are just the same. I shudder to think what would happen if the ‘other side’ comes to power. I suspect things will be no different or maybe even worse.

No, our mission should not be to see the destruction of Barisan Nasional. Our mission should be to see the strengthening of Pakatan Rakyat and the emergence of a two-party system in Malaysia. Let these two parties be matching in strength. We do not want to remove one dictator just to replace it with another. We want to see two equally capable parties so that we can rotate the government between one and the other every two terms or so.

Competition is good. Two equally strong and equally capable parties will fight for our attention and for our votes. That can only work in our favour. And that can only be achieved when Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat are neck to neck and head to head. Then we can try one party for two or three terms and then give the other party the government for two or three terms. When that happens the people will really be the boss and the government our slave.

Anyway, just to digress a bit, take a look at this most interesting video below. May one day Malaysians too respect you for your beliefs -- whether you choose to be gay, atheist, or whatever. After all, we only believe we are right. We don’t really know, do we? And beliefs are just that, beliefs, and we could be wrong.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/hisownwords

Comments (269)Add Comment
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written by ckhoon, April 06, 2008 16:03:47
Well said Mr. RPK, this is indeed the true spirit of Freedom of Speech.

“I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.” - Barack Obama, on American's history with race
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 16:11:06
YM RPK,

Thank you for stating the obvious in simple language.

Right after the election euphoria I left a lot of comments under your blog postings, but lately feel that joining in the debate becomes a waste of time as the debates become ever more fractious, partisan, racist and fundamentalist - especially the annoyingly adolescent Pakatan Rakyat fan club.

We have a long way to go before we come of age, but RPK, thank you for trying to help us grow up. Cheers!
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written by malaysianohope, April 06, 2008 16:22:53
Greetings Pete,

Freedom of expression is a core component of a democracy and blogging is an alternative medium to the conventional media. I applaud you for enabling us all to express our views without charging us nor any impediments in your website. The only qualm if I may say is that if someone is dissenting one's view its hidden away. Everyone is entitle to his/her opinion whether it's favourable or not, but maybe that's how your website is created which I can leave with.

Have a nice day!
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written by oknyua, April 06, 2008 16:22:53
On the other hand, I am really looking forward for intellectual discourse on religion with any well-meaning Muslims. On issues that may disturb their feeling, I would offer my reservations. Things like marriage, dead, sacrifices, works, faith and of course, the person Jesus Christ, are issues that can result in differences. How do I know?

Because I read and studied about them from a Muslim’s perspective. In the recent articles by True Muslim, he quoted bible verses. Can I ask: Does that make him any less a Muslim? Reading the various rebuttals, do they make him change his religion?

That’s why I am not at all bothered trying to see whether he was cynical or truthful. He asked, I answered. I asked, I hope he answers too, without feeling any inch of anger, as I did. But the point is (Home Ministry, please note), the questions and answers had not made him less Muslim, and me less Christian. True Muslim, agreed?

That is the level of discussion that we MUST have between various races, various religions. Thank you YM Raja Petra for this article.
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written by penangite, April 06, 2008 16:31:09
I have watched the Barack Obama speech some time ago. Malaysia has got a long way to go in terms of race and race-based politics.
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written by rhyder, April 06, 2008 16:33:46

written by oknyua, April 06, 2008
On the other hand, I am really looking forward for intellectual discourse on religion with any well-meaning Muslims.
======================================================= ==========
not sure if i could live up to the label of intellectual, but you're welcome to mail me at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
i too really look forward to discourse with well-meaning christians.

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written by apa jadi, April 06, 2008 16:42:35
Our mission should be to see the strengthening of Pakatan Rakyat and the emergence of a two-party system in Malaysia. Let these two parties be matching in strength. We do not want to remove one dictator just to replace it with another. We want to see two equally capable parties so that we can rotate the government between one and the other every two terms or so..... Then we can try one party for two or three terms and then give the other party the government for two or three terms. When that happens the people will really be the boss and the government our slave.


Well phrase. For the mean time, just concentrate on the strengthening of PR. Forget about helping BN for the time being. They will succumb their own misdeeds.

You cannot avoid people taking side, YM. That's why the balance of power is important.
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written by Umar Rentaka, April 06, 2008 16:47:44
Culture is something one learn from their parents. Even teachers or religion can't teach it.

YM RPK, I agree with you. In the pursuit of material goals, we have abandoned such finer matters of humanity. Where hence, Malaysians go from here? Parents have left their children in the hands of maids, teachers in school are themselves a questionable lot.

In Indonesia, all students are made compulsory to study literature. Here, in our education syllabus we have relegated these important subject to the Arts Stream, a second rated stream. Science is most important.

Pursuit of science is important; but not at the price of giving up our soul.
As the good Jesus Christ said, "What profieth a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul."
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written by wongnoball, April 06, 2008 16:49:00
Dear RPK,

I am sorry. I didn't give you a reply is because I just worry that I might commit the Seditious Act if I am not cautious with the language I use.
May be you are right, because you have the very much better insider information than me any time.
Thank you, dear RPK. May your God bless you always!
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 16:51:06
Hi RPK,
Timely article ....

As you've said - I too am not so sure if PR should be so eager to come to power. Maybe they should concentrate on being the opposition for some time before they get to achieve "dominance". Probably, only then will they understand their roles better.
Having said that - get there they must, sooner or later - at least it would serve to dispel the notion that we cannot have an alternative to the BN govt.
It would also serve to remind future govts of the folly in "arrogance of absolute power" and the fact that they serve the people.

While you have commented on the poor tolerance for "differences of opinion" among commenters - you must admit that it has come a long way.
What we have today is in fact much better than in the earlier days, and much more lively (despite all the "holy words" flung at liberty).

Anyway, you have harnessed this very "shortcoming" to the benefit of the people and MT - you have a knack for turning "controversy" to your advantage (did you learn that from The Tun or what?)

As for the newcomers, i suggest that you don't let a few bits of information (juvenile, vulgar or whatever) in cyberspace by somebody you don't know, rile you up! The idea is to be able to hold your peace and staying rational instead of getting emotional.
In due time most (if not all) do come around pretty okay...... and we all learn in the process.

Cheers.

p.s.
RPK - thanks for the freedom on this forum.
You've helped change the face if information & opinion (not that I agree with all of your's) in Malaysia.
Mr. Shabby may wanna appoint you as their new "spinmeister" ...
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written by KwongCK, April 06, 2008 16:53:18
Can we make it compulsory for all our MPs to listen and watch the Obama speech and write a 500 word commentary - in any language.
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 16:55:39
....hope and strenght like the mujahedin in afghanistan , iraq , somalia ....
maybe we can bring them over.....
============

angfaulith,

you got some faecolith you wanna share?
No thanks mate .... we're fine without the mujahideen!
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written by Jeremy, April 06, 2008 16:58:57
RPK,
Your point taken.
Your web-site I believe is probably the most popular web-site read by Malaysians and in some or many ways has affected the outcome of the last General Elections. There are many kinds of people that blog into your web-site -some are tolerant, some are intolerant, some are Muslims, some Christians, somev are religious and some are not, some are Indians, Chinese, Kadazans and so on and on. BUT at the end of the day we have some COMMON ground, maybe not in religion yet but in many areas e.g. coruption, principles of decent behaviour and so on. This is a GOOD start. The lack of tolerance will go away over time but then it may not but that is not improtant. What is important is that for MOST of us TO GROW UP and be more tolerant in our comments. It is not a perfect word that we ive in, you know.

One day we will be one big MELTING POT of Malays, Indians, Chinese, Kadazans, Ibans, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Budhhists, etc, etc and live happily ever after smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 17:03:15
written by SBennit, April 06, 2008 | 16:47:11
In other words, RPK is saying that he wants more comments of these sorts:

- Yor' da' man, RPK.
- Well said Mr RPK.
- I agree with you 100%.
- Thank you Mr RPK for this article.
- Please be our MP Mr RPK.
- I support you 100% Mr RPK.
===================================

I'm sure that would bolster his ego .... but I seriously doubt it!

This RPK doesn't really write what he believes or thinks all the time - he does write some nonsense with flowery language occasionally so that some readers get "challenged" and thus create controversial debates that are exciting.

Of course we do get dunggus saying "Yore da man" to every thing he says lah .... Maybe he'll say TDM is actually Mother Theresa, and we'll hear, "Hidup Pak Tun. Hidup RPK!" in the same breath soon!
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written by mei yen, April 06, 2008 17:08:11
Wow! Wow! Wow! The most sensible article that I have read on this website. No one can influence better and no one can change attitudes and mindset better than you do. The choir is not going to be happy but .... Thank-you!
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written by Raja Petra, April 06, 2008 17:21:55
Dear SBennit and cruzeiro, you are both so immersed in your hatred of everything Mahathir and Umno (like those everything Malay-Islam is dog shit types) that you have become irrational. Mukhriz, to you, is dog shit because he carries the Mahathir name. You guys are dangerous because you spread hate for the sake of hating.

Let me help you see the light, not that I care whether you do or not. A wounded animal is dangerous. If you trap a wounded animal into a corner it will come out fighting and will attack you.

Umno is a wounded animal. Don't try to trap it into a corner as well. If Umno's survival is at stake and if it faces death in the face it will become vicious. That's what happened on 13 May 1969.

It is better that Umno reinvents itself and that it sees some light at the end of the tunnel. It is better that Umno try to win us over with an even more baru Umno Baru. When there is hope for negotiations, they will negotiate. When there is no hope for negotiations, then war is the only option.

I, for one, do not want to see an Umno on war mode. So get a grip on yourselves. This is not about me or me seeking praises. This is about being rational and allowing your 'enemy' a way out so that he does not become suicidal and takes us to our graves in the process.

Is that too hard to understand or do you want this translated into your mother tongue?
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written by cubi76, April 06, 2008 17:32:30
fear that pas will islamise them when they are already surrounded by the islamic influence all around.
dont realise that we malays gave up the use of jawi so as to have a bahasa malaysia.
but we must have hope just like barack hussein obama
hope and strenght like the mujahedin in afghanistan , iraq , somalia ....
maybe we can bring them over. look at the intelligent westerners. they are converting to islam by the droves.


I do not oppose Islam as religion. But the examples of the countries that you gave just scare the shit out of me. No I dont want Malaysia to be the next Iraq, or Iran, or Somalia or anything. I just want my beautiful Malaysia as it is.

Maybe anyone who tries to Islamise or rule any country based on religion forgot a thing -- God gave human-beings freedom, fairness and 'will-power'.

Be fair to us.
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written by Raja Petra, April 06, 2008 17:33:18
Dear orangmsia, thank you though I know you meant that as an insult.
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written by cubi76, April 06, 2008 17:37:25
angfaulith:
Also, what makes you think westerners are more intteligent than us? (or perhaps only you) What makes you think you are inferior?

Again, they converted into Islam not because they are more intelligent, or more affluent, or anything. It's just because they are free to choose, free to believe.
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written by Raja Petra, April 06, 2008 17:38:25
Dear cubi76, then don't kick a man when he's down. That's what happened on 13 May 1969. It was not because of the election defeat on 11 May 1969. It was because of the taunting on 12 May 1969. You think Umno is not reading what is being written here? They have done badly on 8 March 2008. That is enough. Don't push them too far. You might not like what you see. Give them a chance to recover from the shock. If not they might harbour thoughts of revenge rather than reinvention. And you guys will be on the receiving end.
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written by Commonsenses, April 06, 2008 17:41:54
Rpk, u r right. A wounded animal is dangerous. U need to allow them space. Perhaps after they have picked up their shatterred spirit, they can under go a transformation for the good of the country.
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 17:44:15
Aisehman Abang Pete,
Don't lah say dog-shit .... bullshit should be sufficient, mah!
Of course I know that UMNO Baru is in "anjing tersepit" mode right now ..... all the more reason we don't encourage further turmoil by promoting proponents of the dictatorship that caused it.
We should in fact pressure for reform within, from the genuine reformists within - not the "toxic" opportunistic bashers with inferiority complex. These guys you call dog-shit bash everything and anything.
It makes no sense to back bashers lah .....

This dogshits you speak of has an inferiority complex of some sort.
He's toxic .....
He can only look good if he bashes somebody - he has bashed everybody who doesn't kowtow to him.
It is his trade mark. He's done it since his early days, and it has helped him all along. He survives on this factor.
He needs to bash somebody, be it aab, tar, tho, dsai, coolie, malays, chinese, jews, muslims, arabs, christians, aussies, europeans, americans and what not.
Unless of course he stands to gain by silence .....

So it would be advisable that his verbal toxic diarrhoea is ignored - it may silence him for good.

Maybe sleeping beauty is quite a consolation compared to dogshit .....
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 17:47:26
I write this whilst watching a programme on BBC TV1 called 'do we have a right to offend?' and, guess what, it's over the Danish cartoons issue. There's British Muslims, Jews, Christians, Darwinists, and even the prophet of atheism himself Richard Dawkins, expressing each group's opinion in a public debate - sometimes in heated tones but overall civilized, and in my mind's eye this is what I hope we will one day enjoy in Malaysia.

It's a bit strange to hear Richard Dawkins use the words Allah and haram quite freely, but that is the beauty of a multi-cultural society.

Let's not get carried away with our emotions, and truly, for the near future it is best for our country to have two strong parties fro us to choose from.
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 17:47:56
It is better that Umno reinvents itself and that it sees some light at the end of the tunnel. It is better that Umno try to win us over with an even more baru Umno Baru. When there is hope for negotiations, they will negotiate.
================

Very true .....
We all don't want the UMNO people fighting and lashing out at everything - so let us not at fuel to the fire.
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written by Ranulaw, April 06, 2008 17:50:33
"We act and talk as if we know that there is a God -- which makes us condescending, pompous and holier than thou -- whereas we don’t really know, we just believe."

RPK, I think u hit the nail on the head with the above sentence! Many a times we hear "religious" people preaching to others & behave in that way. The truth is until we can differentiate between fact & belief, there is really not much chance the Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhist & all other religious followers can learn to live together peacefully.
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written by vineeth menon, April 06, 2008 17:54:18
Excellent punch.This is for the blind followers.
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written by cruzeiro, April 06, 2008 17:57:00
you are both so immersed in your hatred of everything Mahathir and Umno (like those everything Malay-Islam is dog shit types)
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How come I missed that part ....

Hey don't say that lah ..... I never said such things okay ..... I love 'em all.

In fact, I appreciate the fact that Tun is a master of manipulation, and I love the way he controls stupid people on the ground and at the helm(of the nation) despite being "too old to rock and old enough to pass-on".

As for Mukhriz - I have no regard for his intellect. From what I know, he's the least of Tun's kids - that's all. I don't hate him.
I only can't stand the dumb ones who cannot think for themselves.

Never said anything about Malay-Islam anywhere .... where did you get that idea?
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written by megahyper, April 06, 2008 18:01:32
Bravo RPK,

You for one is DA "intellect" in the sea of self installed or UMNO installed "intellect" (not unlike the UUM vice chancellor). And you take the word "impartiality" to its true meaning.

I agree fully with all thats tertertib, especially the last 3 paragraph and your subsequent reply in this section. We need to make it 2 competing power so that the power can be returned back to the rakyat, while not cornering the wounded animal.

Give them time and space, god willing, we shall see an emergence of a solid 2 party system that makes malaysia a choice of abode for our children.

Once again, Bravo mate.
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written by hopman, April 06, 2008 18:05:39
Yes , Malaysian have a lot of growing up to do. We need to understand cultural issues between races in the country. We need to understand religious issues between religions better. This can only be achieve through regular discussions and establishing an understanding of tolerance among races and religions. I sincerely hope that in this new era after the 12th GE in 2008, Malaysian as a whole will slowly mature and establish views that we all live in this same country. We have no other choice but to make this formula of Malaysian for Malaysia works.For the past 50 year, Malaysian are divided by racial lines, For the past 30 years, we are faced with religious issues. The current BN government is of no help. Their political agenda is about "divide and conquer". The Malaysian society is very much divided today.

Talking is easy but making the the first move is the hardest. I salute that Pas MP that went to address the christian audience Shah Alam. That is the first step. I strongly urge all malaysian to make the first step too. Unless we engage all these issues together and find solutions to these issues, we shall never achieve a malaysian malaysia society that we dream of. Its an uphill challenge for all malaysian. Are we up for it? Your guess is as good as mine...
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written by Lim Lim, April 06, 2008 18:06:15
umno/BN was not defeated by bloggers,their debacle were actually inflicted by the frustrated but right minded malaysian!!they were well beaten at various key locations by the righteous malaysian who are color blind n believe in giving birth to a race called bangsa malaysia; the only hope to propell malaysia forward!!
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 18:08:41
I wrote:
Let's not get carried away with our emotions, and truly, for the near future it is best for our country to have two strong parties for us to choose from.
,
even though, having lived in the west for way too long, I see democracy as an imperfect system open to conflicts of interest (electorate vs campaign fund giving lobbyists) but by and large in an effective democracy the system of checks and balances does work in checking demagogues (how long did it take the British people to get rid of the hated Tony Blair?) and changing governments (the Tories are making headway, could be the next UK government, though core foreign policy seems to be still pro-US neocon).

Until human society develops a better way of governance, we are stuck with democracy as the lesser of many possible evils. So let's make the best of this flawed system, and support the development of a two party (two main parties rather, with small independent ones) system.
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written by East Highlander, April 06, 2008 18:08:58
Ideally an effective 2-party democracy will be one where the percentage differential is 10% or less between the 2 parties, ie minimum a 55:45 ratio. Pakatan Rakyat is only 18 seats short in achieving this. So the focus should be on strengthening Pakatan Rakyat first until they reach this minimum level and only then worry about the UMNO led BN.
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written by singam, April 06, 2008 18:17:38
Well done, RPK. A timely reminder.

Discussions on religion tend to become especially violent simply because there's a lot of anger and frustration that has been caged in without avenue for release. This blog is a safe place to allow such fury to vent because people cannot come to blows.

Hopefully, this bottled-up anger will vent, release the built-up pressure and then good sense will follow.

I am looking forward to a more open approach to Islam by PAS allowing greater freedom for learning and discussion which, in turn, will soften all these sharp edges.

Was-salaam.
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written by Argonaut, April 06, 2008 18:18:15
I can grasp the don't kick a down man statement. But, does it mean that we do not investigate and prosecute those who are guilty now that their shields are gone? It cannot be that because of their positions of power and willingness to be violent, we let justice be unserved. Their crimes have true victims. Are we to tell the victims that intimidation again denies them justice? Does a reformed UMNO equal a blank slate? I have read posts here about Chinese Gangsters (great emphasis on the Chinese part apparently) that are committing crimes with true victims. I'm sure theres a great desire to bring them to justice, but of course they have their political shield. Are we to let it all slide as well because it would implicate the wounded man?
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written by ckhoon, April 06, 2008 18:20:41
We are not anti-establishment, we are just pro-rakyat. Please let both BN and PR re-invent themselves to serve the rakyat.
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written by Rhan, April 06, 2008 18:21:48
RPK, your last two articles is very confused.

I believe most of us who know history well do not want to see UMNO being cornered. To achieve this, people like me want to see Badawi stay on but it seem you have other idea. Do you see something we don’t?

Btw, all this while we Chinese were criticized for being selfish and not ready for this and that, it seem some of the comments here justify our behavior in the pass, who is the one not ready? What a sad joke.

To me, PR is no different with BN in the long term, therefore all PR members must willing to check their leaders from time to time especially those family dynasty. Otherwise, DPP Taiwan is one good role model for you.
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written by SL Chan, April 06, 2008 18:45:21
I agree with YAM RPK..

Think it is wise to let BN resolve their internal problems wether UMNO,MCA,MIC or Gerakan....Give them a chance to revamp themselve as what direction they want to go..In the end the people cant change them. It is only the people within the party can change and revamp the party and decide the destiny of it...I believe they know what the voters or the rakyat wants for this country after rakyat have given the mandate to PR...Think time to move on..
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written by pelukis, April 06, 2008 19:02:20
From Wikipedia:

Running amok, sometimes referred to as simply amok (also spelled amuck or amuk), is derived from the Malay word amuk, meaning "mad with rage" (uncontrollable rage).

Although commonly used in a colloquial and less-violent sense, the phrase is particularly associated with a specific sociopathic culture-bound syndrome in Malaysian culture.

In a typical case of running amok, a male who has shown no previous sign of anger or any inclination to violence will acquire a weapon and, in a sudden frenzy, will attempt to kill or seriously injure anyone he encounters. Amok episodes of this kind normally end with the attacker being killed by bystanders, or committing suicide.
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written by shamadz72, April 06, 2008 19:13:06
RPK as usual has managed to deliver his message straight to the point. May Allah bless you with a long life so that you can continue to contribute to this country. Insyallah.
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written by apasalahku, April 06, 2008 19:32:33
hey RPK you're the one who's not come of age. Democracy serves to allow the ignorant, fascist, educated, tolerant, atheist, religious nut, etc to voice their views without censorship or suppresion. That's all. You should leave it as it be and leave your paternalism at home. (You might imagine that MT belongs to you; but really, it has grown to be larger than that).

Besides, i'm waiting on the follow-up on the Salleh Abbas story.
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written by non partisan, April 06, 2008 19:51:58
to all hypocrites shouting about check and balance before the election. who is going to check and balance the P.R if umno is no longer there? at the moment only umno has enough power to do the task for us.. your 'idol' r.p.k will not be there forever to whack the government u know? hey, he needs to retire and enjoy his sweet time too..

huhuh. malaysia.., boleh bah kalau kau..
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written by little dragon, April 06, 2008 19:53:44
RPK as usual has managed to deliver his message straight to the point.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

straight to d point!!! heloooo my fren, which blog r u reading?

"smokescreens......", "coming of age" n his tangential replies on both hv been anything BUT!!! n frankly, i'm confused.

pete, wat's ur point? is it 2-party system, lay off mahathir, dissenting opinions or wounded dog v r talking bout here?
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written by Motherchell, April 06, 2008 19:57:51
Picture perfect piece, well said , Pete, kudos! --- When i saw the acceleration of the blogs , and the direction it was going --i knew --reading between the lines -- that this addendum was coming !! smilies/smiley.gif

Taking a comment from harrbm's blog,in another thread,(Thks harrbm)he succinctly , said and quoted ,
"""""" Remember what YM RPK said some months ago.

WHAT IS RIGHT TODAY MAY TURN OUT TO BE WRONG IN FUTURE.
WHAT IS WRONG TODAY MAY ABSOLUTELY BE RIGHT IN THE FUTURE."""""""""

it held the links to what was going wrong with ourselves, we were speeding with the joy of an empty four lane highway without toll gates.

Since becoming a part of this community, all of us! ; I'm sure you would agree with me about one distinct behavioral offing , we are more sanitized in self- confidence, we are able not to be told to be counted and many positive truism abound ----- Dont we ???

The reasons i would say is, in the platform we all are -- we are able to ingest and excrete what we like and what we dont like ! this place called "MTPetra"--- if not for this i wonder if we'll have the lubricant to our cerebral cylinders!!

Have we not become more responsible ?? after having been in here,since the day we signed in as members, pasting at ourselfs, digging not just dogshit -- but dogmatism and the dog day afternoons ?

Anyway guys -- its a great privilege to be with you 'll.
and to Pete , you must be a regular on paracetamol smilies/smiley.gif Thanks for your patience
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 20:06:09
Wah, reading what these people are writing, you get the impression that they think they own the place already.

apasalahku, you are beginning to sound like a right little spoiled runt:

hey RPK you're the one who's not come of age. Democracy serves to allow the ignorant, fascist, educated, tolerant, atheist, religious nut, etc to voice their views without censorship or suppresion. That's all. You should leave it as it be and leave your paternalism at home. (You might imagine that MT belongs to you; but really, it has grown to be larger than that).


Understand one thing, child, that in the internet universe, the webmaster is god, and me, you, all the other people posting here, are visitors. We can post comments here because RPK allows us to.

Once upon a time there was on M-T so much hue and cry abot UMNO cybertroopers posting comments to hijack discussions.

Now we have PKR cybertroopers, DAP cybertroopers and PAS cybertroopers also. Each one of you , go and stare at your idol politivians and masturbate, but don't come and masturbate here and get angry at the webmaster for not masturbating along with you.
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written by Milo, April 06, 2008 20:07:03
RPK hits the point right about beliefs and reality. Our beliefs are merely our realities, not THE Realities (Truths). The need to debate with an open mind is precisely because our beliefs may in fact be wrong. The fact that two person who apparently believe in the same God can be standing at competely opposite end and viciously attacking the other tells a sad story about religious beliefs. Most religionists are blindly dogmatic, so blind that even if the truth is clearly demonstrated that their belief is false, they would rather kill the revealer than listen to the truth.

Perhaps we should not use the world 'tolerate' with regards to religion, as it implies we do not understand that people are only interested in what they believe in,not what the truth is, and we have to suffer and put up with the stupidity of other's belifs. It probably much better and more apt if we replace 'tolerance' with 'understanding', 'respect' and 'acceptance' in relating to one another. In this way, we can adopt the attitude that it is natural for people to hold on to their beliefs as we understand and accept this reality. There is no need to put up with (tolerate) them, rather just let them be as long as they allow you the same respect. It is mutual respect that we will not on purpose hurt others who held a different beliefs from ours.
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 20:08:51
politicians, not politivians.

So, when your deva DSAI seizes power, I suppose it's time for Operasi Lalang II: round up and lock up any blogger who dare criticize the PR government.
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written by Naha, April 06, 2008 20:16:05
And by the way, while we are happily getting emotional here, it looks like the US is sliding into recession:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7330619.stm

and the longer Malaysia is cursed with a crisis of leadership, the more investors pull out their capital, the worst we are going to fare under the impending gloabl economic meltdown. So, who gives a sh*t if it's Anwar or Ku Li, just get it over with, we need someone to save the ship from sinking.
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written by AsamLaksa, April 06, 2008 20:19:13
Interesting write up, RPK.

I have always respected Malaysia Today's stance in allowing all sort of opinions to be published. That is the main reason I post here, not because of RPK (which I always said is just a man and I do not hero worship anyone), or the BR/PR fanbase (I have no formal political links and I have explained why I supported BR/PR because of the ideals they want to uphold), or the anti-BN sentiments (in fact I have given ideas on how to save each component parties and urge non-members of these parties not to interfere with their internal problems such as asking AAB to resign).

I wasw also pleasantly surprised that religion is debated here. Why pleasantly surprised? Means that WT does not sweep difficult issues under the carpet. Anyone worth their salt in politics would instantly recognise who faith is relevant in politics even if they are staunch defender of secularism. Again, I blasted Muslims and Christians alike not because I am strongly against these faiths. For all I know Jesus and Mohammed SAW are my kind of guys. What I am against is the dogmas and the narrowmindedness it breeds.

It's not that I want to shoot down each faith based on their words from their holy texts. If you read my posts I do not have a selection of controversial texts in my arsenal to ridicule any faith but rather reply to others' selection of quotes to question the compatibility of what they claim their faiths to be and to point out the lack of clarity. I could easily find contentious scriptures but what's the point as my stand is that you have to see beyond the words to find the essence of your faith. In short I place less value in religious texts and more value in the essence of universal love in all it's form.

Thus no heaven or hell for me and no fear of god (If there is a god, I would believe in a loving god who I will not fear but respect instead). I will also stress that my beliefs are still evolving and that is what I find most important that my beliefs is not stifled by doctrines. Some would call me a deviant or misguided but I care not as it's my mind, my heart, my belief. Also note that there is little reason for me to be defensive when I debate on faiths because I profess to no religion and if you have a better opinion, I would digest it and as I say, it evolves. As much as I use logic to argue on faiths, I also recognise that faith is not bound by logic and at these junctures I refrain from making an issue out of it.

Anyway, enough about my beliefs.

On bloggers, funnily I have never considered myself one as I do not really know what it's suppossed to mean. I am just highly opinionated and perhaps that's all the requirement it needs to be a blogger. I do not like visiting other blogs which do not allow negative feedbacks which means I do not visit other blogs beside MT so far. I will defend anybody's right to make their views known no matter how unsavoury. It's up to the people how they take up the opposing views. I can tell someone to go to hell but welcome them back anytime to be told to go back to hell again.

On UMNO, again I urge non-members to let them be. As much as I know how much relevance the post of president of UMNO is in Malaysian politics, it's up to the party to decide. Everyone else is buat bising (including RPK). Let them sort themselves out without undue pressure. Similarly I have rejected calls for any leader to resign be it OKT, KSK or even Samy. Their party members are citizens and voters. Their decisions should be respected. If the party members won't help reform the party, then they have to face the bigger test of a GE. I do not think reactionary behaviour would bring much benefit compared to a more thought out reaction.

As for TDM, I respected him as a leader no matter how much I dislike many aspects of his rule but the more crap he talks after he retired, the more my respect for him eroded. I give praise to him for what good he's done and will still balst him for the perceived errors he's made but I would also listen to the opposite side of my arguments and digest it. As for his son, I have made one major comment that he has called for changes but yet to outline clearly what changes he represents, typical of UMNO style rhetorics. I am not foolish enough to support changes for the sake of changes.


cont.
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written by AsamLaksa, April 06, 2008 20:19:47
cont.


On Anwar, I disliked him when he was in UMNO. I suspect his motives when PKR was started. Heck, I had little respect for PKR which I saw had only one agenda which was to free Anwar. But by the end of 2007, I saw the effort Anwar put in to galvanise a strong opposition and I can't help but respect him more. I can never tell what his true motives are as much as what other leaders' true motives are. But I strongly agree with his work for the PR coalition which I think is making great progress in the Malaysian political scene. By the way I also have not shown support for Anwar to be PM. I wait and see more of his deeds. I also suspect RPK's agenda and keep an eye on his postings because the more influence he's garnered, the more I have to be vigilant.

On PAS' Islamic state, I am per se not against any Islamic state if it would protect and promote the fundamental rights of their citizens. To me secularism, democracy, communism, Islamic state are all just catchphrases. What is most important to me is good governance and upholding the rights of citizens. When PAS dropped their Islamic state agenda for the 2008 GE, I was happy for them and I support such a move again not because I hate Islamic states but because I see it as a move to foster unity among all the races as I want to see a progressive Malaysia not divided by race or religion.

I apologise if this is too much personal ranting. I just have views I want to share and I work better on a personal level rather than on a less personal thus I refrain from posting any articles.

Keep on posting!
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written by cubi76, April 06, 2008 20:22:30
Dear Pete,
The point that I made meant to remind them that we are in fact living in Malaysia, a country of multiracial and comprise of multireligion. After all, I believe that this is the sipirit of Pakatan Rakyat -- rule the country regardless of the skins or religion -- Malaysia for Malaysian.

I have friends from Sudan, Pakistan, and Afhaganistan. I understand what it's like in their countries -- oppression, cronyism, tribal problems, etc. I just hope that Malaysia doesnt follow the paths taken by by those fundamentalist countries.

Our country actually has all the ingredients needed to succeed. Strategically located, natural resources, muitl-racial, the Malaysia Boleh spirit, etc. What we lack of is really proper governence. The race-based politic really doesnt suit to a country like this anymore if we want to progress to next level, socially, politically, or economically.

Muhibbah...
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written by sltemp, April 06, 2008 20:25:15
Many bloggers, often claiming freedom of speech, are becoming myopic, bigoted, biased and even militant in their views. And, too much credit is given to bloggers, just because it is thought that bloggers were instrumental to bring about the significant changes in the recent General Election.

It is very wrong for bloggers to think that they are influential because of their writings in blogs. This is total foolishness! It is the readers that give them this so-called influence. If nobody read their blogs, what influence do these bloggers have? Perhaps it is for this reason of attracting readers that certain bloggers write on sensitive issues. If this is so, it is better for people to stop reading these blogs.

Everyone have and entitled to their own views. Ironically, while claiming their rights to speak, the same people failed to acknowledge the rights of others. And so, people start to condemn conflicting views instead of reasoning and "agreeing to disagree."

Sometimes, it seems that certain bloggers "bait" others with contentious and sensitive issues, especially on religion. When the issues are very subjective and there are no clear-cut answers, why even write on these issues? It only invites condemnation and never-ending circle of arguments and counter-arguments. Instead, why not write on many other beneficial issues?

Oftentimes, it is better to keep a level head and say less.
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written by shamadz72, April 06, 2008 20:34:43
pete, wat's ur point? is it 2-party system, lay off mahathir, dissenting opinions or wounded dog v r talking bout here?


Read RPK reply to Cruziero & SBennit and read it S.L.O.W.L.Y. If you still can't get his message than I would propose either you start taking a night class on English subject or RPK to start writing in your mother tongue language
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written by novrising, April 06, 2008 21:49:48
Malay Father and Mother took their 1 year old identical twins boys to Mawi and Siti Nurhaliza's concert. Younger twin strays away and gets lost while the father's and mother's attention is focused to Siti and Mawi "brilliant" performance. Younger twin was found by a foreign Caucasian couple and due to some "plot twist" unable to locate the Malay father and mother and decided to have him for themselves.

Younger twin get to go to...huh...lets say..America, and the caucasian couple not knowing that the younger twin is a Malay muslim decided raise him as one of their own, with Christian values.Younger twin boy grows up to be a good man with high values and morals and when he was...huh..lets say 21, the Caucasian parents reveals that they found him outside a concert area in Malaysia, KL, 20 years before. Younger twin decides to seek his biological parents and asks his adopted parents permission to do so. He gets to KL, asks the press's help, got his picture and story published in local dailies and eventually meets up with the biological family.

Questions:
1.Same blood, Identical twins, would their thoughts would be same?
2.Same blood, Identical twins, would they be able to agree with one another's beliefs?
3.Same blood, Identical twins, how did their become so different? After all they are brothers, right?

Our beliefs, our ideologies, our thoughts, whats right and whats wrong, whats make you who you are, was conditioned by our parents, society, teachers and etc.
WE CAN ONLY BE LIBERATED WHEN WE STAND AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

Peace, and sorry for the long boring story above.
...NovRising...
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written by Rhan, April 06, 2008 22:11:06
Aiya Naha boy, why dun u ask the webmaster to ban us from continue to post our comment here? The moment we dun masturbate along with the webmaster, boy MT cybertroopers like you getting angry pula, u shd go n visit jeff ooi lah, y come here?
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written by logistics, April 06, 2008 22:22:52
ppl,

me, my religion
you, your religion

this is from the Al- Quran


beliefs are up to every individual, respect it!
live harmoniously and respect each other la...

traditions and cultures are secondary and of no significance, trust me.
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written by Umar Rentaka, April 06, 2008 22:27:33
Dear mimag2005,

please write to me.

This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

I may not have the translations you requested but could get them if really necessary for you.
As far as,
"THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, NOT A SECOND ONE, NOT AT ALL, NOT AT ALL, NOT IN THE LEAST BIT.",
YES. That is the Absolute Truth. No higher truth than that.
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written by ahmisk, April 06, 2008 22:29:25
I AGREE! I AGREE!

BELIEFS ARE A PRODUCT OF PARENTS AND PEERS.

AND I DONT CARE WHO RUNS THE GOVERNMENT AS LONG AS THEY RESPECT HUMAN RIGHTS, RUN A BALANCED AND GROWING ECONOMY AND UPLIFT THE DOWNTRODDEN.

RPK- YOU ARE CORRECT! CORRECT! CORRECT! smilies/grin.gif
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written by JustinCH, April 06, 2008 22:37:03
It's sad to think about it, but Malaysians in general still have a long way to go. Allow me to share with you an attitude shared by some of my friends:

They want to see BN destroyed and the opposition taking charge. It really saddens me that they say this without really knowing what it means. Not that I do, of course, but the point is that they are so blinded by their hatred to everything BN that they just want anyone, and really, ANYONE in charge except UMNO.

I know this attitude is not unique, but it is disturbing nevertheless. As for me, I can't see any substantial benefit whether Pakatan Rakyat, or BN is leading the country. Whoever takes charge probably won't hesitate to abuse their new powers. And really, do you expect an opposition leader to be more "clean" than a BN leader?

What I believe in is that the only way for the rakyat to win in politics is to have one party compete with another, and frequently find fault with each other. Sure, you probably won't agree with me, but that is what I believe in. It's not something that I know for sure.

And if you believe me, then do make yourself heard.
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written by orangmsia, April 06, 2008 22:41:55
Dear RPK

Sorry if there is any comment here sounds like insult to you

Not long ago you came out with a blog saying that JKR = Jaga Konet Raja

Just hope that you won't let all the bloggers here become JKRPetra smilies/grin.gif
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written by tkahyap, April 06, 2008 23:22:48
ya labu..minding ppl's business again..get over it
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written by Thomas47, April 06, 2008 23:27:32
Dear RPK,

Nice piece. Although I may not always agree with all your postings, I read them all anyway with an open mind and respect that it's your own personal opinion. I admit today's posting is really good. It's the 'kick in your balls' type. Thanks again.

By this latest posting it can be safely deduced that you are not looking to win any popularity contest. Heck, this your own space to say your piece and we are only commentors (tumpang sekaki). And I have this to say: "If any of you guys are not happy with MT anymore, you can always start your own blog. It's the 'IN' thing now and the latest addition to the 'family' is ex-Selangor MB, Mr. KT himself". smilies/grin.gif
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written by angfaulith, April 06, 2008 23:30:41
askm brothers and sisters,
thank you for sharing..
peace be upon u....
hidup pas! hidup malaysia!!
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written by Raja Petra, April 06, 2008 23:48:15
Dear Labu, again please, and in English please this time. And as for this comment:

ya yap, go suck raja,' dick. jangan kacau saya, youre the one minding my business. you can go vie for the prized position Presiden JKRPK

which Quranic verse are you quoting?
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written by kent chong, April 06, 2008 23:48:52
hi RPK good enlighment and i fully agree with u, we should give chance and not push other to limit ... but what we can see UMNO is stubborn party and if give chance.. end of the day all the Rakyat will suffer again.It's relly make me in dilemma.
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written by kent chong, April 06, 2008 23:51:40
Dear RPK and all MT member... just ignore LABU.
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written by Raja Petra, April 06, 2008 23:54:58
RAJA PETRA'S BELIEF SUCKS: said Labu. I rest my case. Labu has just proven everything I said in my piece. If you believe differently from what I believe then your belief sucks.
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written by kent chong, April 06, 2008 23:57:59
Dear RPK... just ignore Labu.... the more we reply him... the more nonsense remark been posted. We all love Malaysia,, we want live in PEACE, Harmony ,Muhibbah and Respect.
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written by ahmisk, April 07, 2008 00:05:20
The problem with SOME (i repeat, some) muslims is:

They say: we should follow ISLAM!!!!

Then everybody looks at each other and scratches their heads: what does islam want?

Then the biggest and baddest and most macho muslim says just follow me! I know it all! I'm more muslim than you! You dont know anything about islam. You're not islamic scholars (by the way some of those Sky Kingdom (Teapot) followers graduated from Al Azhar)! I'm an Islamic scholar so I know best! You dont want to follow me???? Then you're munafik! Kafir! Murtad! Whatever! Tangkap dia! Masuk Lokap!

Its kind of like George Orwell's Animal Farm. All animals are equal but some are more equal than others. smilies/grin.gif smilies/cool.gif
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written by Raja Petra, April 07, 2008 00:05:49
apasalahku said: hey RPK you're the one who's not come of age. Democracy serves to allow the ignorant, fascist, educated, tolerant, atheist, religious nut, etc to voice their views without censorship or suppresion.

Sorry, apasalahku, no can do. Asking Chinese to go back to China and Indians to go back to India because Malaysia is a Malay country is not 'democracy' and I am against that as much as some Umno MPs think this is the right thing to say during Parliament debates. There are limits and I shall impose these limits. And if you think that democracy also means the right to call Indians, Keling Pariah, and Chinese, Cina Babi, then you certainly do not deserve being given any freedom to talk.
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written by sheppardlight, April 07, 2008 00:16:10
Labu wrote
there are mu'minuun who is not a muqinuun, yet almuqin for sure is also almu'min.this is basic tasawwuf, you should know better.
......................

Ayo labu, dont talk crab la. All these scholars are the ones that has confused the muslims. These terms, defination and discussions by these scholars are not valid anymore inour time and it has never been used by the prophet or in the quran to classify. It is only for use during that periode of time, like hadari. We are now back to the Jahiliah period, so go back to the basics. There thousands of books written by many scholars of different period, so which one do we follow? Reference should only be the quran and sunnah. Full stop.
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written by sheppardlight, April 07, 2008 00:48:11
Hey Labu

I am not nabi isa or gembala kambing. I am GOD!

Do you know what God is? i doubt it.

I bukan nya nak sibuk-sibuk, i am god, so i have to sibuk la.

By the way sunnah is not a discussion, it is the implementation of the quran. Hadith is part of the sunnah. And God is only a metaphor. In Malay they call Tuhan, you terbalikan its Hantu.
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written by logistics, April 07, 2008 00:57:00
Oi labu,

if u r a Muslim, behave like one.
ppl like u give Muslims a really bad name, kapish..
if rpk made a mistake, correct him in a nice manner, don't have to show your vulgarism.

rpk,

u r touching a sensitive issue here, some might understand what u're
trying to say, some do not. of course some r also confused...lol

those who dont know, go and read the Quran and Hadith.

Peace be upon all of you..
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written by mimag2005, April 07, 2008 01:17:10

.." Freedom is not constituted primarily of privileges but of responsibilities"...
Albert Camus
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written by pillars, April 07, 2008 01:20:46
Nice piece of thought RPK. I enjoy yr writing more and more. Such a talent you have.

I just feel bad that you have to waste your time for unnecessary things. I think some comments here are done by the youngs, some of them cant even get the essence of your articles. Some just want to provoke you.

GBU RPK.
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written by apasalahku, April 07, 2008 01:42:26
dear naha
I'm not your 'child'. Go patronize your own little puppies, you peasant.

dear RPK
MT ain't no parliament. we are not elected MT viewers. Here is the tavern, the bar, the roadside coffee shop where the peasants gather and fights erupt and gossips exchanged and ideas hatched. It is much bigger than parliament.

Just by not seeing comments to 'ask chinese to go back to china, etc' does not mean the sentiment is not there. Its whispered in the suraus, taught during Agama class, etc...
If your eyes are likewise opened, you should allow for others' to be too.

'Beware of he who suppresses your right to speak, for he desires himself dominion over you,' apasalahku
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written by freedom fighter, April 07, 2008 01:48:23
labu dan labi
perangai macam babi
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written by Malaysian Abroad, April 07, 2008 01:53:13
Electable and Non-Electable Oppositions – We Need Both

I want any opposition party to have the real chance of becoming a government, otherwise that opposition will lose hope and impetus. That isn’t because I favour any of the opposition parties over Barisan Nasional, just that we need the checks and balances that a two (or more) party system offers (although the Democrat/Republican, Labour/Conservative morph shows that this isn’t guaranteed).

There are people who feel that the trouble with voting is that the Government always gets in – in other words, once in Government, no-one can be trusted 100% because such power inevitably corrupts. The best permanent opposition comes from non-governmental organisations or individuals, like Amnesty International, Transparency International, other human rights organisations and special interest and pressure groups and, yes, people like RPK – people with strong, independent views and original thoughts. People like that should be treated as a national treasure not as a threat.

I don’t always have to agree with RPK, but I’m glad he’s there because at least he makes me think.
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written by Naha, April 07, 2008 01:54:15
Dear apasalahku,

Wah, you a mind reader ke? I did not know that I am a peasant until just now, but unfortunately, I don't have any puppies.

Dear Rhan, you said:
Aiya Naha boy, why dun u ask the webmaster to ban us from continue to post our comment here? The moment we dun masturbate along with the webmaster, boy MT cybertroopers like you getting angry pula, u shd go n visit jeff ooi lah, y come here?

Aiya Rhan, I never knew I was an MY cybertrooper lah. How to masturbate looking at RPK or Jeff Ooi lah, geli ada lah.

It's like this: when you go visit someone's house, do you maki hamun your host when halfway through chit chat he say something disagreeable? Tetamu lain pun rasa malu and meluat, you see, so terpaksa tegur lah. Go into someone else's blog, just like go into someone's house, ada adab untuk menyuarakan pendapat.

Fine, express yourself, that is to be encouraged for a healthyier society, but why bring this attitude problem?
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written by Naha, April 07, 2008 02:26:47
YM RPK,

Aisey, penatlah. Just wanted to say, thanks for putting up with our sometimes horrible comments and mudslinging at each other. Keep up with your impartial postings, regardless if it's about this party or that party or this big fler or that big fler.

The country is shuddering from political uncertainty, and it's unfair that the rakyat don't seem to have any say in which coalition will be in government and thus who gets to be prime minister. All possible candidates are tainted, so anti-hero-worship types like me don't get attached to any big fler, but prefer to encourage/goad/criticize whichever one we get to improve governance for the sake of the country's future. However, for people who do not enjoy cynical impartiality, it becomes such an emotional time for them.

To apasalahku and Rhan, sorry for taking sarcastic and intentionally patronizing swipes at you, but like I said, masuk rumah orang jagalah mulut sebagai tetamu. I don't like peope who unconditionally support a cult of personality, but hey, we're all free to choose whatever, but going around whacking people who don't agree with your choice ain't gona help your crusade one iota. Keep a cool head, and cool fingers poised over the keyboard.

To all you wonderful M-T addicts, keep up with the civilized debate. If things get a bit nosiy here, you can always have a good laugh at Husin Lempoyang's or go Niamah! at Patrick Teoh's. smilies/grin.gif
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written by romerz, April 07, 2008 03:38:03
“Religion is the hardest issue to agree on.” – RPK

Without a doubt!

Why? Because it is all about human faith and ALL humans are different both physically and mentally. Why then not as hard for politics or race relations or any other debate?

Because unlike any other subject, religion does not have the benefit of HINDSIGHT which is something we humans use to correct our beliefs or opinions and make adjustments accordingly in our daily life.

Without hindsight, we are just ‘guessing’ that we have made the ‘right’ choice and that our choice will salvage us from ‘damnation’ in the after-life (for those who believe in the after-life).

Before I go any further, I’d like to clarify that I’m agnostic, meaning that I’m a fence-sitter, a chicken shit to be blunt!

Having eyes, I cannot fail to see that there are more believers than non-believers of God around me (whatever the name of the different faiths). So does that make me wrong for being unsure about the existence of God, just because I’m not part of the majority?

Are the majority always right and the minority wrong? On this I’m not so sure and it is debatable, because to prove this assumption, you have to be able to ascertain ‘absolute truth’.

What is absolute truth? Is it truth as believed by the majority of human beings on this earth or is it truth which cannot be debated upon and will hold true regardless of the test of time?

I would like to offer a simple question for us human beings to ponder.

color blindness. It affects 10% of the human population worldwide. 1 in 10 people see red as green and vice versa. Because the 90% of us are the majority, we call the other 10% color blind. How sure we are that it is not the 90% who are actually color blind, seeing green for red or vice versa? If you seek truth, as I do, then don’t be so quick to conclude that your faith is the only true faith, disregarding all other humans who choose to use our senses and ability to think, to choose what suits us best (selfishness; a very human characteristic).

“I think therefore I am” is the most I can go right now without the benefit of hindsight.

If we are to believe that ‘God’ gave us our brain to think, then why are we not using it to explore ourselves and discover what is it that make us so willing to believe that God’s words are divine and not the interpretation of man?

In summary, I am confused and unsure why we human beings have to be assertive about our beliefs. Religion or the lack of it is a personal matter between one’s self and one’s fears.

No matter what people from other religion apart from yours may profess, you yourself determine what you believe in.

What is unacceptable, IMHO, is imposing your belief on others claiming you are right and anyone differing from you is wrong. Who appointed the believers to save ‘souls’?

Without hindsight, there is no right or wrong, so long as we are human beings, let us choose our own paths without infringing on the rights of others.

I do not wish to spark-off a debate here about the existence of God. I am still searching for his existence/or not and cannot engage in a meaningful debate.
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written by Argonaut, April 07, 2008 04:10:26
Dear Mr RPK,
I suppose its hard for me to understand you sometimes. I see in the media and in your posts the mistreatment that you receive from the authorities who are acting under orders from BN. My immediate response from the recent GE is that we'd be able to bring some righteous justice upon the BN abusers and give them a taste of their own medicine under our criminal justice system. I thought you'd be one of the more vocal advocates for justice, being on the receiving end for so long. You have very legitimate claims for your pound of flesh. I guess you either don't posses the killer's instinct or you are a much bigger hearted gentleman than I thought. What will all your exposes attempt to do? Embarrass the abusers out of office? Let them 'reform' and hope they come out better? I only hope that the other victims are as magnanimous as you are.
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written by bn haramjadah, April 07, 2008 05:11:21
dear rpk, can you blame the non-muslims for being intolerant, can you blame them for being frustrated with the discimination in the name of ketuanan, can you blame them for being rabid when temples of hindus and others are demolished, can you blame them they turn cockeyed when PAS SIGNs THE ELECTION MANIFESTO ONE DAY AND THE NEXT DAY THEY START TALKING THE EXACT OPPOSITE, can you blame them when they see their fundamental rights deminishing, their children not getting placements in halls of higher education, or bodies of non muslims getting snatched and the courts turn a blind eye, things have been boiling and simmering for too long a time, the non-muslims see their rights being taken away and given to indoneseans or filipinos muslims, and these people become instant bumiputras whilst does who have been here for generations are made to feel they are not wanted in their own country and told by MPS to keluar, this election results is a breath of fresh air for 2 generations of MALAYSIANS, they want to see a change for better where the rule of law and meritrocasy paves the way for Malaysia to beCOMING dynamic in the world stage, we can compete with the best of the world if given the chance, the bottom line is all Malaysians want themselves to be recognised as bangsa Malaysia, and not by racial and religous divide, I pose a question here to all, we mix with all the races everyday and we show respect for each others and expect the same from others but this seems to be lacking in certain people who feel that they are superior, why due to the politics of the land, MAHATHIR MADE A SPEACH THE OTHER DAY AT KMNU THAT UMNO HAS LOST CERTAIN STATES TO THE ENEMY, THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS, DANGEROUS AND SEDITIOUS STATEMENT, THE PAKATAN STATES ARE RULED BY MALAYSIANS,THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, SO HOW CAN THE FORMER PM OF MALAYSIA CALL MALAYSIANS ENEMIES, WHO ARE THE ENEMIES, THE ENEMIES OF THIS COUNTRY are people who have dimantElled the rule of law, where kickbacks and money politics are the given fact where elections are rigged, ineptitude and corruption leads to massive bailouts with no action taken against those responsible, so in the end I ASK EVERYONE HERE CAN YOU BLAME US FOR BEING WHAT WE ARE? given time though this will change but stupid statements by PAS to test the water do not help, this only play into the hands of the "enemy???"
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written by cody8177, April 07, 2008 05:31:10
To Fellow Bloggers,

We believe what we want to believe. We are not tolerant to what others want to believe which is differing from what we believe. That's a cold hard fact. Be bold, take it face on. If we want to move ahead, we must rise above this intolerance and ride on the wave of 8/3/2008 where freedom (to vote) transcends religion, race and opinions. Do not be fanatical about our beliefs and principles. In short, do not become the extremists we voted out in the 12th GE. If not, we are no better or even worse. Leave some room for acceptance of opinions which differ from ours, digest and take what is relevant. No need to lose temper. Blogging is for us express our views in in a free, mannerly and matured environment. No kiddy mentality here, OK ? This is what true freedom of speech is all about. Think about it !

To RPK :

Please give time to some of us here. We need time to adjust to the bigger picture, to be far-sighted as you are. Time to move on from the uncontrolled,fiery and hot-tempered coffee shop talk in the mamak stall. Thank you for our articles which gives us food for thought. I do understand your decision not to take any post or contest any seats. You do not want to be seen as political. You want to express your own conscience to the Malaysian public the way you want it, direct and straight to the point. And today MT has become the conccience of the Malaysian Public, our vaccine against all kinds of political and social diseases. BTW, thanks for the video.
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written by Camillus, April 07, 2008 05:44:27
A very timely article!

You see, Malaysians are not just a bunch of racist idiots. There are other equally bad aspects:

1.
Hypocrites - Malaysians are hypocrites. Having championed 'invidualism' and 'independent thinking', I was crucified on MT as being a 'cybertrooper', etc. Now that RPK has mentioned it, you get a lot of these hypocrites changing their tone and tune. Why? This leads me to the second point.

2.
Followers - Malaysians are utterly stupid! A bunch of ignorant followers. Malaysians (in particular the Chinese-Malaysians) subscribe to the 'herd mentality' concept. It's not merely following, but more of following the apparent 'in-thing'. Everyone is guilty of this though. At one point in time, the world was thought to be flat. Now, this was a fact back then, and other suggestions were vilified. Look what happened to Galileo.

RPK is the 'in-thing'. MT is the 'in-thing'. Bashing Malays and Islam (under the guise of bashing UMNO) is the 'in-thing'. Now, the last bit is actually the effects of 'Islamophobia', as initiated by the West. Malaysians are so stupid. They still see the West as a paragon of excellence, good governance, high morality and ethical values, etc. Hence, it's OK to 'follow' them.

3.
Stereotyping and jumping to conclusions (i.e. narrow-mindedness) - After reading the above, many MT readers (i.e. Malaysians) will conclude (prematurely) that I am a Malay/Muslim and also anti Chinese-Malaysians. Need I go on?


Now I will sit back and watch my 'negative votes' count soar! smilies/wink.gif

P.S. As for religion, those who believe in a 'God' are impractical dreamers!
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written by Camillus, April 07, 2008 05:57:33
written by Naha, April 06, 2008 | 20:16:05

And by the way, while we are happily getting emotional here, it looks like the US is sliding into recession:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7330619.stm

and the longer Malaysia is cursed with a crisis of leadership, the more investors pull out their capital, the worst we are going to fare under the impending gloabl economic meltdown. So, who gives a sh*t if it's Anwar or Ku Li, just get it over with, we need someone to save the ship from sinking.


Definitely share your sentiment!
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 06:15:51
Dear Camillus,

You are wrong and right!

Ppl will firstly say... this caillus is also a follower, hypocrite and stereotyper. then they will say that you don't' have tolerance by calling ppl impractical dreamers. they will not understand that your p/s is actually a wind-up.

Sathia
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 06:18:35
Sorry if the words hurt your 'sensitive' feeling. but i am disappointed with your arrogance. Where is God? I dont see God so He MAY not exist. we can only believe in what we see only.


Labu, I have a picture of a cage and a picture of a bird. If I alternately spin the 2 pics quickly and alternately, u will see the bird in the cage. it's called optical illusion. So don't always believe on what u see... or not smilies/tongue.gif
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written by grant, April 07, 2008 08:49:25
wah Bala, Wongnoball and FFT, u guys are in the limelight of RPK's No Holds Barred article man... very few can make the cut...
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written by grant, April 07, 2008 08:56:20
Camillus,
Why do u speak of the Msians only? Arent Msians also human beings? So when you mentioned about Msians being this and that, shudnt you also widen ur scope of judgement to all human beings including urself?

Let me say this
1 - Aint the whites in US of A being racist too as they look down on the blacks?

2 - All of us as long as we are human beings are hypocritical in one way or the other not just Msians.

3 - I agree with u to a certain standpoint (since I myself a Chinese bashed the Chinese for being stupid) but in this world you either have leaders or followers. If all choose to be leaders, who is going to follow? If u say we are stupid for being followers then why do u follow the laws governed in Msia?

4 - Finally, when people read ur article, they know for a fact you are also a stereo typed. Because you are already making a judgement right now that Msians are this and that...

5 - Last but not finally least, I said those who believe in religion are weak.. U went 1 ahead by saying those who believe in God are dreamers. Hmm.... Interesting. I think u are one of them!
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written by AsamLaksa, April 07, 2008 09:13:35
Cody8177, to see the bigger picture you need to see the source first. Practice awareness in whatever you do. Question why you do things they way you do it, why you think they way you do, why do you believe in what you believe, and why you feel the way you do. This is what a Bhuddist teacher once preached. Once you find the reasons, test it so if it is the 'right' reasons. If it isn't, then change your ways.

My example was when I was faced with the issue of an Islamic state. I initially blindly opposed it because I am not a Muslim and I didn't like the way some Islamic countries are and I didn't like how many Muslims behaved. So I checked these reason of mine and what I discovered was that my reasons were irrational and based on a narrow perspective. There is nothing to say that Islamic state in Malaysia would end up like the Taliban rule. My view on Muslims then were based on the fear and distrust of the non-Malays around me. I grew up distrusting Muslims. So, I discovered that I didn't like my reasons as they don't have any solid backing.

So next I asked myself what is it I really want from any government. Thus I end up now saying be it secularism, theocracy, democracy, communism, etc. they are all just catchphrases as the most important thing to me in any government is good governance and protection and promotion of fundamental rights. This is the big picture I found. How they go about it, I don't really care as long as they practice it. Democracy or even secularism is not the perfect form of government.

Another example is where BN leaders said that if MCA or Gerakan do badly in the polls, there will be less Chinese voice in the BN government. I looked hard and ask myself do I really care about Chinese MPs or do I care more about good governance unto all irrespective of race? My motivation here is good governance, thus I don't buy this rubbish from BN. Similarly I do not care if Penang's CM is Chinese or not as long as he/she practice good governance.

Anyway, practice awareness in yourself first then you will realise it's not hard to look at the bigger picture once you get rid of many unhelpful prejudices.


Camilus, you talk crap. You sound also quite proud to be a hypocrite. Sure is easy to point out faults but don't let faults blind you to the potential of the Malaysian people. BN underestimated the rakyat and I hope you don't do the same.


Haramjadah, get out of your racial finger pointing. Sure what you say are valid resentments, but you do not have to succumb to the blame game. Instead of being defensive and distrustful, build bridges. Stop being defensive. Work for all and give others who work for all the chance to make it happen. Start small by getting to understand the concerns of both sides. Speak to them as equals leaving your prejudices aside. Watch the Obama speech.


Argonaut, I can understand RPK in regards to justice. As much as I want to see the wrong punished I don't want just any 'justice'. I want good justice which are based on good principles. Thus I do not want to use ISA on other even if I were imprisoned under ISA as it would be against my principle of right to a fair trial. I don't believe in an eye for an eye nor in let them taste their own medicine.
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written by grant, April 07, 2008 09:14:25
sampalee, are u JK's fan?
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written by Camillus, April 07, 2008 09:47:30
Grant,

Do read Sathia's response above. He succintly pointed out the expected Malaysian response!

In response to your points:

1 & 2.
My topic was that of Malaysians. If you want to have a debate on Americans, that's another conversation thread. I do not have extensive experience with Americans. It seems that you do. I do, however, know Malaysia (and Malaysian idiosyncracies) well.

3.
Very typical of Malaysians (now I'll be called a 'cybertrooper') to take things out of context! I suggest you read previous postings on 'individualism' and 'independent thinking'. Indulging you, what about the vast majority who follow certain laws and break ones they think are trivial, i.e. will not get the into real trouble? Such as running red lights? Bribing the police? Etc. etc.?

4.
See Sathia's post above. Also, do refer to my previous posts. Indeed, I am prejudiced! I have mentioned this many times before! As a recent member of MT, reading the many blogs here on MT only strengthened my thoughts and prejudices! One recurring example is having a go at Mahathir by calling him 'mamak', etc. I just cannot get the essence of this. In fact, your very response was what I expected! So yes, I do stereotype - though I am trying hard not to do that. Unfortunately, your response only serves to justify my stereotyping and prejudices.

5.
Again, see Sathia's post above. It's good that some Malaysians understand a windup. These are exceptions to stereotypes - which actually make me glad. Why? They prove me wrong and give me hope. I believe RPK mentioned something about not being aware of a satire or something of that sort even if it bites one on the backside.
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written by Camillus, April 07, 2008 09:50:21

Asam Laksa wrote:
Camilus, you talk crap


Thanks Asam. Your response (and your full post) really does justify this article!
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written by FFT, April 07, 2008 09:56:23
Oooh, I get 'special' mention?

I speak for myself here, but its certainly within your right to hold the opinion you elaborated on in the previous column. Those asking you to "take a break" from writing can sod off.

Likewise, others do have a right to point out that there is no room for whitewashing Mahathir's past, even for the noble purposes of focusing on taking the mickey out of Badawi. Jumping on the Mahathir bandwagon, or trying to hitch a ride on the waves he is making, is akin to cutting your nose to spite your face....and this isn't specifically directed to you, RPK, by the way. But others out there know who they are.

The perception management team associated with Mahathir does seem to be working overtime though. To them, all I can say is best of luck in trying to polish a turd.
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written by skc, April 07, 2008 10:03:34
Dear YM RPK,
Do you think we Malaysian has grown a bit ever since you started MT ?
I would say yes we have, in all sorts of different ways and thinking, as it should be.
The genie is now out of the bottle. Way to go. You should be proud of all this, every positive and negative comments here. This is after all what you wanted, I believe.
Never the less you still have my full support.
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written by Umar Rentaka, April 07, 2008 10:31:16
Dear mimag2005,

I'm still waiting for your letter...
Hope to hear from you soon dear.
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written by alan cheong, April 07, 2008 10:42:11
now, now Peter, wot's this about letting umno live, lick its wounds and so on and so forth?

pretty much at odds with your earlier stance of a two-party system - there can be NO umno in a two-party system. There can only be two ie an Opposition(Labour) and the Tory (for want of a better term). With umno as a party in a two-party system, WOT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

unless and until umno changes/grows up (ie does away with the perennial confused chinese wanna-be loser mind-sets, attitudes and policies)/mutates/evolves to ACCEPT others [and in the eyes of the rakyat (correct me if i'm wrong), that's when pigs fly], then umno must be deep sixed once and for all.

WE can state the obvious too, ie WE are fed-up. And WHY should a highly malignant cancer that has brought the nation to the brink of terminality be allowed to recover? Cancers must be done away with, period. The tool has become as malignant if not more than the wielder(s).

You wanna state the obvious? You stating a fact?
THIS FACT is OBVIOUS: WE, THE RAKYAT will not standby and do nothing anymore. If there is a need for arms, WE shall take up arms.

But there is no need, for the Almighty Living God has started moving across OUR land, and the wicked, the haughty, the arrogant, ALL shall be humbled and brought low.
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written by alan cheong, April 07, 2008 10:47:15
And by the way, these are detracting focus from BUILDING the nation. From concentrating on OUR strengths, our ideals, removing the diseased (people, policies and systems alike).

C'mon ... !
In a way, Peter has a point: LET umno IMPLODE. We watch and celebrate from the sidelines even as WE rebuild OUR nation.

'nuff said.
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written by speakofthemind, April 07, 2008 10:53:16
'We are what we believe in.'
It could be based on evidence or mere believe.

'We are what we choose to believe.'


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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 10:57:38
Hi alan cheong,

Is it possible for this almighty living god to move across africa as well? and bangladesh? and other similar places of deprivation? or can god only move across one land at a time?

We watch and celebrate

How is watcthing the misery of others a good thing? please enlighten me.

thanks.
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written by picadilly, April 07, 2008 11:49:17
RPK said it best, Let us now assume that others also believe in God, but they believe in a ‘different God’ from yours.

Everyone believes in God. If someone says water, others say air, Thanni in tamil & Sui in Mandarin, so on and so forth. The substance does not change.

Of course you may argue that your type of water is better than the others , you may have Ice cubes which is chill & cold while someone else may have Air Panas & others may have Mineral water compared to another who has Rain water.

But the end all is H2O. The substance is the same. water does not hate anyone who calls it AIR/Thanni/Sui. So God remains Merciful no matter how we may call him.

For all religions God is One.
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written by grant, April 07, 2008 12:21:07
Camillus,

1 - I care less about what Sathia wrote... I care more about what u wrote.. Can I? If u talk about Msians only, and not wanting to widen the scope with the fact Msians and other humans of all races and nationality are of the same man kind then u are just being stubborn and shutting urself out of this world. In short, u are putting all of Msians down including urself by just judging the people u mix with.. No wonder u can be so defensive in ur writing esp when u were trying to rebuke my statement abt Americans. Then let me take Indians for example from India.. They are all Indians but they fight among themselves because of religion. They are also a bunch of idiots like u and I and the rest of the Msian people. Arent u saying that? So why limit ur argument to only Msia? Because we are staying in Msia and this article by RPK is about Msian?

2 - Vast majority may or may not, u and I are just a few of the many who breaks the laws but also do follow the laws most of the time.. Arent we followers? Are u saying that you are the outstanding one, the outlier among all the so-called noble that breaks every law in this world because u dont want to be a follower? Then why are u still here? U shud be in jail for breaking every law. So is this ur way of saying that believing in God is an impractical dreamer because u want to be "The Different One", where you can lead ur own way rather than being a follower? Wat a crap!

3 - Again I dont care what Sathia wrote, you are judging everyone.. People say in Chinese, use the broom 1 time sweep, sweep everything in its way. The way you judge people definitely make u very noble if that is wat you are thinking. Hey, you are not God btw.. Since you dont believe in 1, what makes u the Judge? A stereotype will never change. House Season 4 Episode 12 where it was mentioned people dont change. You will never change from being a steretype. In fact you are.. and you are trying to give urself some benefit of the doubt that you are in progress of not trying to be. Haha! Wat a joke!
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written by grant, April 07, 2008 12:32:09
Hey Camillus,

Btw u spoke of the West in ur comment but when I spoke of the US of A, u defended urself by saying a load of crap excuse. What is ur point u are trying to make? Dont be a hypocrite urself la...

U can talk abt Islamophobia initiated by the West and Msians are stupid to follow and bla bla bla... I talked abt racism in this world, taking US of A as an example and u crapped out..

Ok, just earlier in my comments I spoke of Indians from India... I bet you are a racist yourself.. You despise people calling names like Mamak.. U hvnt called one bfore in ur entire life I assume?!?! I can even call RPK Tok Janggut or Tok Botak does that mean I am racist? I bet you are not only a stereo-typer but you are more fake that 1 can ever find.. You are not trying to devil's advocate anything but rather u hentam everyone as if you are 'The Special One"...

Poh rah!
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written by Chuang Tze, April 07, 2008 12:33:50

A civil society with all checks and balances in place, must encourage free speech with responsibility. Many a time I have seen and heard volatile speeches given by "extremists" standing on soap box platforms and invariably, the people who gravitate to these events have a good laugh at these clowns and leave. It takes much maturity to be able to hear and see opinions that are alien to one's own and to appreciate the speaker's point of view is even harder. It needs us to be able to put ourselves into the speaker's shoes and see it from his point of view.

Belief and Fact are 2 different things. Fact stems from what has happened, although there can be different opinions about what caused it to happen and why etc. etc., but where Belief is concerned, there is only blind faith and much of which has been indoctrinated by our environment when we were young and with very malleable minds.

where I differ with you, RPK, is that even if the Malay who wants to tell the Indian to go back to India and the Chinese to go back to China and the non-Malay who ask the Malay to go back to Sumatra, or Cambodia, they should be allowed to voice it, and Malaysians should be matured enough to treat these extremists with what they deserve - ignore these Neanderthals for they are not beneath Malaysians' dignity reacting to !! Let these baying mongrels such as keep barking ... when they still can ...

All religions should be tolerated and given their place in the Sun, including Free Thinkers, Agnostics, even devil-worshippers. We should not decide for others what moral path they should follow. However, the civil society we are in must ensure security and just and fair treatment under the Law, and no one should harm anyone else, nor destroy any property that is not theirs.

RPK is very conversant with the Art of War by Sun Tzu as cornering an enemy will also mean much damage to your forces. Hence we should let BN/ UMNO have a way of retreat and pick at their soldiers while they are busy doing so (When Hitler retreated in Russia, that is exactly what the Russians and Cossacks did to the Germans). So he is not thinking of the welfare of the BN or of UMNO, but of the RAKYAT when he recommends us to let UMNO have a path to retreat.

And RPK has been very consistent. He has always wanted a civil society with the necessary checks and balances in place so that whoever governs Malaysia (whether BN or PR) cannot stray from the straight and narrow path of righteous governance.

We must be responsible for our actions and the consequences of our actions and The Mad Hatter has to be brought to book along with his cronies, eventually, and so has Bodohwi and his cronies, but we mustn't throw the baby out with the bathwater - Mukhriz and other relatives of The Mad Hatter and Bodohwi can't help being related to them. we should judge each of them on their own merit.

RPK not taking vengeance quickly on his tormentors, shows his maturity and magnanimity and his his paramount love of Malaysia which will see him always placing Malaysia and its RAKYAT's interests above his own all the time, everytime !!

We also need a free, independent, and objective media, and RPK and MT is leading the pack here. Of course RPK has his own beliefs and opinions which will filter through the Blog, but hey, he reports all comments against him and MT as well. He has my vote for being The CONSCIENCE of Malaysia !!

Soldier on, RPK, you are a great Malaysian, indeed !!

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written by teo siew chin, April 07, 2008 12:49:02
And you Chuang Tze is one spam-mail I totally am NOT gonna remove! smilies/grin.gif
Well-said ! Well-said !

And to the spammer - drum Chuang Tze's comment into your empty head and empty life!!
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 12:51:35
grant,

before, u find trouble with michael and just speak with stupid emotion. now, u r just making a fool of urself lah. read properly what caillus wrote lah. this artile is so correct! if i were to take u out of context, do u mean racism started in US? really lah, u r an idiot.

i agree she wrote quite harshly, but some ppl in psychiatry might think its a way to get a reply.

why cant u debate normally? r u telling me u never judge and stereo-type ppl? even asam laksa admit to this and then thought about it. whos the hypocrite now?

what a pariah!

naha is right... too many stupid young punks here
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 13:04:41
and u expect ppl to change their views when u cannot even respond decently? what a pariah... try reading ppls articles properly lah. and yes, she confiemed she is racist and prejudiced... the 1st step of awareness, all u do is give ppl more reason to judge negatively.

Whatever u think some ppl like camillus, she says things with no emotion which maybe can sound like rude. Some ppl like u write with emotion. of course ppl will want to defent their opinions, so we must present our views logically and orderly. not make stupid comments... like me... btw, sorry for calling u pariah.
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 13:24:46
OK... since u insist.

I turn 41 this year. We were so poor before when i was young, there was no milk... i remember this. Thru hard work, got a scholarshp to read eng. in UK... which i followed up with an mba. i have a lovely wife and 2 fine kids.

Hmmm, I guess intel have low entry requirements, and ST MICRO even more lower requirements for section managers smilies/tongue.gif
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written by Vampiress, April 07, 2008 13:38:45
Haiyahh, no fighting lar.
Grant ko, actually I did see you argue with Michael in the other article wor...and camillus is girl but michael is guy so not the same rite? We must be humble lor & just ignore the people...but what you write is not so good wan...pls don't make our people look like the bad guy
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written by My2Sens, April 07, 2008 13:43:23
It is most encouraging to see a sharing a of opinions such as this.

One thing did catch my attention above all else and that is the mention of May 13. I taught we had moved past that this election and that it's ghost could be laid to rest, hopefully in peace.

Freedom comes hand in hand with responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is a fanactic in action.
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written by Birdbrain, April 07, 2008 13:50:24
The Chinese believes that to get rid of the enemy is like "You not only cut the grass but you must uproot it too". The Chinese also believes that we should always leave the back door open. Feng Shui is all about good chi and bad chi, when the chi rides is just like poetry in motion.

But some prominent bloggers are also in state of self denial too. They prefer to judge than be judged. There are starting a fan club of their own in their own blog. They only want to listen to those who support but will gun you down the moment you disagree.

The fun is missing here.............

Bah!
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 13:52:55
Grant,
Bummer! looks like the MT moderator removed all your comments with all the filthy words u used... should have remained to tell ppl what kind of a person u r. anyway, i saved screenshots and can post them smilies/tongue.gif or maybe give it to the police making a police report smilies/tongue.gif
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written by joeawk, April 07, 2008 14:14:11
It is fair play for everyone. We can all disagree or agree at the same time and it is no fu.... business of anyone to deny us that.

What is so intelligent and what is so stupid? Everyone can want to pose their thoughts and feelinga and it will be up to RPK to put it up in his jungle or not.


After which it is free for all. Readers will have to learn about the truth themselves. Less intelligent people would not be able to tell which is true and will complain.
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 14:34:19
joeawk,
You missed what Grant wrote as the MT moderator deleted all his comments. Not only very filthy language, but really bad things lah. he was saying things like kill all indians, insulting indians, talking about snakes, talking about indians being thieves and about physically bashing the indians. i took screenshots and am seriously considering a police report.

What he may not realise is that every message can be traced.

Go to http://whatismyipaddress.com and u can see ur public and routable IP and also geographical location. Here's another example, do an 'nslookup' on www.malaysia-today.net and then a traceroute to find it pointing to singapore. Its quite esay...
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written by mgeo, April 07, 2008 15:08:19
I think RPK went out on a limb to point out the need for a broader outlook, empathy, and need to seek rapprochement. These are necessities in the new century where we will most assurdly have much bigger fish to fry. However, the bulk of us, having merely replace one dogma with another. I am reminder of a certain animal that mostly keeps its snout close to the ground as its forages for food.
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 15:29:03
Rhan,
I was angry and wrote in response to Grant. You missed what he wrote as the MT moderator deleted his comments. He was saying that we should kill all Indians lah, insulting Indian religion and more. Is this Ok to u? Even MT thought it was too bad and removed it.

I have decided to make a police report. I have the scans and the emails of each comments sent to my yahoo account as I subscribed.
errr dunno about you all but I am being SPAMMED like hell from this article !! HELP !!!!!!


Teo Siew Chin, and I am sure others also got the comments by Grant. Pls Rhan, read his comments. Can I ask those who have subscribed to MT like Teo to forward me the emails of Grant's comments please. This will help my police report... i am really very upset... never coem across ppl like this before. My email is This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 15:41:57
Rhan,

Do u like if i say go kill all the stinking chinese pigs? and chinese religion is crap? and more comments like this with filthy language as well? this is what Grant wrote... it was so bad his comments got deleted... so pls do not randomly respond when u do not know the gist of things... i agree i got upset and called him 'pariah' in return. Or maybe u know what he said and yet agree with him?

But i am gonna make a report for sure... so insulting lah... so many of his comments were like this... so i responded with 'pariah' coz I could not stand it.

Man! i hope this MT gets closed down lah... i am new but never seen such racist remarks like from Grant then ppl like Rhan supporting them...
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written by Raja Petra, April 07, 2008 15:57:40
Grant's registered e-mail is This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and he registered in December 2007. He has now been banned.
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written by teo siew chin, April 07, 2008 16:11:50
phew, thank goodness Yang Mulia Raja Petra

I just shot off an emel to that effect to Sathia!
You guys not as sharp these days to have let this slip eh? battle-weary ? smilies/wink.gif
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written by FFT, April 07, 2008 16:56:58
written by sathia, April 07, 2008 | 15:41:57
But i am gonna make a report for sure... so insulting lah... so many of his comments were like this... so i responded with 'pariah' coz I could not stand it.

Man! i hope this MT gets closed down lah... i am new but never seen such racist remarks like from Grant then ppl like Rhan supporting them...


Welcome from the 4th Floor.

How are things up there these days?

Do all you swine still nurse at Khairy's teat or have you moved on to a new trough of swill?
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written by kent chong, April 07, 2008 17:03:55
WHat i see is if UMNO still rule .. all Rakyat still being Marginize. im tire with all the quota been set for CHinese/Malay or indian. I rather see UMNO dying ...
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 17:05:51
Dear Rhan,
I admitted that I was frustrated, emotional, upset and annoyed... so i responded with silly name calling... but yes... i was really shocked at the comments posted its really bad! I was then even more shocked that u support this... never come across such hatred before... I give up lah... i totally give up...


Dear Teo,
Thanks for ur email... but i still do not understand why MT condones this? all this talk abt check and balance, MT needs it too.. all it does is make me judge MT ppl negatively...but anyway, let bygones be bygones lah, i give up on MT... is this what PKR/DAP/PAS supporters are like?????????????

Take care.
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written by mountainking, April 07, 2008 18:52:35
raja petra wrote "Grant's registered e-mail is This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and he registered in December 2007. He has now been banned."

hi rpk, i think if you want to ban Grant, that is really your prerogative. but for MT to reveal the commentator's email is something that i am not agreeable to. you should at least protect on your commentators' privacy. imagine if those that you ban register using their company's email add, is going to be quite disastrous for that commentator.
how do we ensure that one day you gonna send all your commentators' details to whoever, and there is gonna be a witch-hunt on your commentators?
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written by mountainking, April 07, 2008 18:54:04
i mean in my earlier comment " how do we know that you will not send all your commentators' details ....."
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written by mgeo, April 07, 2008 19:29:09
"Mommy, he scolded me!"
We live in a land that claims to be democratic but with these 2 features:
(a) "sensitive issues" - anything one can't defend.
(b) the tacit right to riot.
I suggest the blog management protect itself with a statement that it is the sole arbiter of any dispute arising. If that sounds flaky, let me point out that is also in our culture: it is in the constitutions of BN parties.
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written by Ireland, April 07, 2008 19:40:36
Dear RPK,

Very interesting topic and well said, especially "Let us now assume that others also believe in God, but they believe in a ‘different God’ from yours. This is also taken as an issue. That person, just like you, was indoctrinated from very young to believe in his God, just like how you were brought up to believe in yours. So can you blame this person for believing in a different God from yours? It is not his fault just like it is not yours. You are both victims of indoctrination."

All i am frustrated over this issue was it was implemented in Universities level to all graduate students to study about "Islamic Civilization or History" (Compulsory Electives) why don't the Universities Top Heads have some decencies to make all major religions Civilizations studies or History or some sort of it to teach all students the fundamental of religion... i am really disappointed as it's only one sided... and mostly it's a crap... some of the tutor claims that the theory of Relativity and E=MC2 is originated from Islamic Scientologist, yeah i am not lying, i was thought by my tutor (subject - Tamadun Islam and Akidah Islam) in PUO Ipoh and the same subject been also thought in UTM Skudai.... can you believe that.... we are not 2 years old to just take the indoctrination by word we also knows what is happening in the world... so please be more professional in what you want the students to accept or at least get your fact right....

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written by batsman, April 07, 2008 20:44:26
Hi Camillus – Did you lose brownie points for being exposed as a cybertrooper? Did the RM50K bonus just fly out the window? Heehee. I almost feel sympathy for you, but you deserve it –cruising around looking for a fight and then crying foul when you get whupped. What a crybaby.

BTW you didn’t get fried for being a cybertrooper, but because you like to paint slanderous black and white pictures. Pls la – at least use some greys even if you cannot enjoy the colours of the rainbow. What a brain dead ninnie. A Van Gogh you are not, a Machiavellian – perhaps. Did you just sacrifice Grant to stay in the game? Not a big loss though, Grant seemed like one of your sicko monsters.
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written by sathia, April 07, 2008 21:51:32
Dear all,

Further to the 'incident' between Grant and myself earlier today, we have actually exchanged a few personal e-mails since then. Grant has been banned so he cannot post this... but he would like to say sorry to all MT readers... and the same here for me - sorry.

As this is my final post...ever...i wish all MT editors and readers all the best for the future...

Sathia
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written by bexe, April 07, 2008 22:44:02
There is no need for us to feel that we need to grow up in our blogging.

People around the world even in mature developed nations show their insecurities, ignorance, prejudices, xenophobia and every horror show just like Malaysians.

It is important for us to accept them and to learn from them and adjust our own paradigms. With these insights into the private & intimate thoughts of individuals we can build a better society. This was never available to us pre-blogs. From blogging I have learned how misconceived people are and how badly formed peer pressure has influenced our values and philosophies. I have also learned how insecure, cynical and dogmatic human beings are.

To the Minister of Higher Education and all leaders. Stop scolding. No one cares these days about your old ideas. Adopt new ideas or perish.
Just a thought; my only disappointment in our blogs is that we have very poor standard of English. Many thoughts and ideas are presented in language too poor to express the power of the message. Pity. So as Minister of Higher Education, I hope it will be one of your priorities to improve this situation.
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written by R020998, April 07, 2008 22:47:55
What a drama.. I think all of you need a break.

RPK wrote about religion ; "Knowing" and "Believing"

I received an e-mail about "HELL" and would like to share with all of you. Enjoy.

******************************************************* ********************

The following is supposedly an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so “profound” that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.

Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over.

The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct…leaving only Heaven thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting “Oh my God.”

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY “A”
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written by orangutan, April 07, 2008 23:24:59
hi guys.. please forgive me for what I have to say
Religious tolerance ?
In Sabah we do not have this problem .
Religious tolerance is ingrained into our hearts and minds.
That is why I am totally lost when you guys talk about respect each others' belief.
I am not trying to sound superior. Just visit a small Sabah town like Kudat.
You will find Muslims playing basketball,speaking Hakka or Mandarin.
In Sipitang the muslims speak Hokkien.
Eating places ? We(Muslims & Non ) eat at any shops run by Muslims or Non Muslim.We eat pork , they eat soto at the same table.We drink coffee.
We live and breathe tolerance .

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written by novrising, April 08, 2008 00:49:31
My whole life, I wanted to taste life with a new government. I almost had gave up that hope. Thankfully, at least in my state, Penang, I can taste the new governing. March 9, the sunshine was different, I felt excellent vibes. I felt real UNITY that day.

My whole life also, I have been wanting to meet, greet, play, work, cry, laugh, live and die, without hyprocrisy or slightest tinge of difference of thoughts/ beliefs coming into the way. To really feel unconditional Love.

Would I get that also in my life time,in my beloved Malaysia?

...NovRising...
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written by novrising, April 08, 2008 01:11:24
The problem with us humans is, even in UNITY, we are not unconditional. At school playing hockey, I might hate a team mate of mine, but we get united playing against another school. I might be disgusted with a colleague of mine but when there is hard tasks ahead we get united. I might vomit at a sight of a BN guy, but if this nation is invaded by outsider, we all will get UNITED.

A great master said: This whole world would only unite when there is a threat from outer space to mankind. ( the movie, "Independence Day", rings a bell?? )

DO WE REALLY NEED A REASON TO BE HUMAN???

...NovRisng...
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written by orangutan, April 08, 2008 01:30:23
Politics never cross our minds.
Its only once in every five years and for a period of 14 days.
The rest of the 4 years and 300 over days we just live like normal
caring for each other.
Simple life ins't it,
Penang - show to the rest of your neighbouring states that your dreams can be fullfilled.
Sabahans are good and simple minded people but there are bad apples too.
These bad apples never,I repeat,never harp on religious issues.
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written by Camillus, April 08, 2008 07:02:56
Hi batsman,

Apologies if I have wronged you in any way.

Please advise - can I say that the majority of the posters on MT are Chinese-Malaysians?

Let us hypothetically consider this to be true. If the Malay-Malaysians and Indian-Malaysians were to now suddenly be reading MT as avidly, there would be - in your words - a mass swing back to BN/UMNO. Not due to apparent 'cybertroopers' like myself - but due to majority of the posts here.

Do give this some thought!
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written by batsman, April 08, 2008 08:10:09
Hi Camillus - if Malaysians are unworthy, then they deserve whatever fate awaits them. I have no control over this. It will just happen. What we do in blogs is to help spread ideas, that is all. If such ideas are not taken up, there is nothing that can be done.

A swing back to BN/UMNO is not the end of the world. PR would have lost a chance to prove themselves over the longer term. This would be a pity as it would strengthen 2 party system as well as checks and balances. However if Malaysians prove themselves unworthy, why cry about it? There is nothing else that can be done.
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written by Camillus, April 08, 2008 08:50:04
written by batsman, April 08, 2008 | 08:10:09
A swing back to BN/UMNO is not the end of the world.


Dear batsman,
A few articles ago, you were utterly adamant in that any swing back to BN/UMNO was a disaster! Please advise as to the change of your tone? Were you wrong then? Or is such a swing just a 'disaster'? And not the 'end of the world'?
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written by bogeyman, April 08, 2008 10:32:05
hahaha!!! smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

CAMILLUS 3 Batsman 0

Camillus, I was watching from the sidelines. You really blind-sided the Bat with this one. Pun intended.

same ol' same ol' batshit
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written by teo siew chin, April 08, 2008 10:45:55
Dear Yang Mulia Raja Petra

Now that you have pointed with your right hand (planting yourself right in front of the line of fire? holding yourself hostage?) can you be so kind as to tell us what the left hand is doing?
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written by Sagaladoola, April 08, 2008 14:57:19
No, our mission should not be to see the destruction of Barisan Nasional. Our mission should be to see the strengthening of Pakatan Rakyat and the emergence of a two-party system in Malaysia. Let these two parties be matching in strength. We do not want to remove one dictator just to replace it with another. We want to see two equally capable parties so that we can rotate the government between one and the other every two terms or so.


In relation to my blog

Title: BN is still essential for a Two-Party Country
Link: http://sagaladoola.********.co...party.html
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written by Sagaladoola, April 08, 2008 15:02:57
Another point to add .. as a Malaysian, in my opinion, we are supposed to be loyal to the country and not any political parties....

Regards,
http://sagaladoola.********.com
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written by michaellmy, April 08, 2008 16:19:59
Well, until Malaysians are able to debate intelligently and are able to respect the feelings of others, plus respect the opposing opinion of others, then we have not come of age yet. We talk about tolerance but tolerance is the last thing that Malaysians possess. How do we build a civil society or masyarakat madani when we are not civilised enough in the manner we treat those with opposing views?


This quote sums up my thoughts after reading all the comments. It's great to see this article demostrate its message so well! The amount of less-than-civil statements and comments can sometimes be draining on the reader. The need to police the site is valid but I do think this site should allow members three strikes before they are out. Its human to err and I think we can all learn to communicate in an intelligent manner without trading names through this site.
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written by chin, April 08, 2008 17:42:34
The coalition of communal-centric parties like BN may be still relevant for a 2 party system but BN has to lose control at least once before a 2 party system can exist. And PR needs to govern at least once before it qualified as a viable alternative.

So we need PR to form the federal government as least once to create this 2 party system. And we have to make this happen.

I am not for the opposition, I am for a fair and efficient government.
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written by Camillus, April 08, 2008 17:51:22
Michael,

Firstly, we need to practise what we preach.

Secondly, it is really hard to avoid hurting the feelings of others - people are that diverse! Those Danish cartoons caused worldwide uproar. Billy Connelly really does have a go at Catholics and they laugh at it. On MT, the majority have a go at Muslims/Islam under the guises of having a go at BN/UMNO. Saying that, I have come across some comments against Christians on here that have led to uproar.

What is intelligent debate? Is it being PC and avoiding talk of religion alltogether? Or walking on eggshells trying to figure out what to say and what not to say with the millions of different people? The PC brigade is said to be ruining many a country.

What we really need is emotional intelligence. We need to learn to handle our emotions. Learn to channel our emotions to work in our favour. Use our emotions as an aid... etc... etc...

Unless we are able to do so, we will never be able to constructively debate remarks such as:
"Malaysians are stupid - in particular, MT readers".
"Those who believe in God are dreamers"
"The Malays of Malaysia will never be strong enough to stand without the NEP"
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written by batsman, April 08, 2008 20:45:05
Camillus - It is all in the timing. 1 month ago is not the same as today is not the same again in 4 years time. I don't expect dumb ass static thinkers like you and brain dead bogeyman to understand.

Depending on how the PR behaves, in 4 years time, I might even vote for UMNO again. How about that? Again it is all in the checks and balances, but how could dumb ass thinkers like you understand?
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written by batsman, April 08, 2008 20:49:40
My,my, Camillus - don't you sound sickeningly nauseating in your post to michaellmy. Playing the field for sympathy and admiration? Azalina must be proud of you. heehee
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written by R020998, April 08, 2008 22:41:09
RPK wrote:

Let me help you see the light, not that I care whether you do or not. A wounded animal is dangerous. If you trap a wounded animal into a corner it will come out fighting and will attack you.

Umno is a wounded animal. Don't try to trap it into a corner as well. If Umno's survival is at stake and if it faces death in the face it will become vicious. That's what happened on 13 May 1969.


AAB retaliated on Sunday.
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written by POPEYE, April 08, 2008 22:55:57
Fellow intelligensia. Lets remember to call a spade a spade. This fellow Mohd. Khaled Nordin has no idea what bloggers are and do. He should appropriately be redesignated as the Minister of Pre-nursery Education.
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written by panca, April 08, 2008 23:27:12
Yes Pete....

A belief is a BELIEF. Just as A Right To Believe!

A Human Being is about Being Human!.....HUMANITY

Peace and Love.

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written by Camillus, April 08, 2008 23:44:02
written by batsman, April 08, 2008 | 20:45:05

Camillus - It is all in the timing. 1 month ago is not the same as today is not the same again in 4 years time. I don't expect dumb ass static thinkers like you and brain dead bogeyman to understand.

Depending on how the PR behaves, in 4 years time, I might even vote for UMNO again. How about that? Again it is all in the checks and balances, but how could dumb ass thinkers like you understand?


Hi Batsman,

You see, I was right. Things do change. People do change. Parties do change. The re-branded PR can end up being worse, right?

That post was not for Michael - for MT readers rather. I can safely say that a large proportion took it the wrong way - when I called Malaysians stupid. In 170 posts here, there wasn't even a single post here on emotional intelligence and on not letting emotions get the better. Hence, I thought I'd better make my point.

Raja Petra pointed this out glaringly in him 'Siamese Twins' article (albeit with different words but to a similar effect). Guess what? It was misconstrued!

This frightens me. If MT readers and posters are the progressive, intelligent and forward thinking lot of Malaysians, are we not in a dire position?
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 08:13:46
The trouble with you Camillus, is you will take some of others' words, add yours and spin the meaning of the comments to something else. This happens so often I lost count!

Hey! Just because things do change does not mean they have changed! Just because people do change does not mean they have changed! Just because parties do change does not mean they have already changed for the worst! Just because PR can end up being worst does not mean they have alreasy ended up being worst! Those are just YOUR SPINS, BIAS GENERALIZATION and 'WANT TO BE RIGHT' ATTITUDE! And it is people like you (who have some intelligence, but bigotic) who help to put Malaysia in a dire position! Your last show of 'emotional intelligence' is right though - It is frightening to have people like you around!

p/s: And stop abusing Daniel Goleman's EQ principles in your dumb arguement. You talk (only) of such principles, but walk a different direction! Constantly calling others stupid and always claiming you were misconstrued are not EQ-based substance!
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 08:21:22
What batsman said is just we should keep our options open. Obviously, if the basis we voted in the PR have changed, we should exercise our wisdom to reverse the support. But has the PR changed for the worse? I thought that are doing a pretty fine job thus far. And has the UMNO-led BN changed for the better? So where is the basis to change our stance? Talking rots!
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written by Mik, April 09, 2008 09:44:32
I'm Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .

As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To
Know

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place

Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change


I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not
Alone?

A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody's Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream

They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya' See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That's Why I'm Starting With
Me
"Man in the Mirror" by MJ.
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 09:48:46
minum milo, anda jadi, si...hat, dan kuat smilies/tongue.gif
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written by batsman, April 09, 2008 10:10:48
Hi Milo - Thx for the support. Looks like pontianak sundal has joined the party. Welcome pontianak! heehee

Camillus - Milo is absolutely right. We need to keep our options open. Winston Churchill inspite of being a lifelong foe of communism saw fit to risk the lives of Royal Navy ships and sailors to send airplanes, tanks and artillery to Stalin. The Chinese communists, inspite of a deep hatred of Chiang Kai Shek for the Shanghai and many other massacres, saw fit to PURSUE him and to pressure him into an anti-Japanese alliance. You on the other hand act like the Iraqis who hated Saddam and invited the US to invade.

BTW, we still need to wait for RPK's 100 day report card, but in my books, the 30 day performance of the PR is excellent (apart from a few old bogeys with big mouths. Everything is still OK and the PR still gets my vote.

So Camillus, pls stop creating imaginary monsters to frighten MT- readers whom you see as immature children. Rest assured most are more intelligent and capable than you.

Bogeyman - still waiting for you to claim even greater victories on behalf of your second identity, Camillus. How many do you have anyway? Identities I mean? Is pontianak sundal one of them too?
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written by batsman, April 09, 2008 10:14:13
Bogeyman - too bad Grant (obviously your favourite identity) is dearly departed. Maybe he will resurrect as pontianak gatal?
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 10:32:08
batsman and boy blunder smilies/tongue.gif

Last time u both strongly say only PR...now keep options open...confused lar... means u change rite? like the song, i'm like a bird, i wanna fly away (here n there). i know u just target camillus coz she is very clever, rite? u wanna b like her smilies/tongue.gif
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:33:39
alo ireland,
do u know the origins of islam?will u b shocked if its revealed to u dat the revelations in islam is d same as the vedas/vedanta?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

very very very few makkals r aware of this simple truth..but its a fact..
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 10:33:52
hey milo, i support u lar, minum milo jadi kuat...means strong smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:36:32
umar rentaka,mimag..betui..
revelations in islam=revalations in the vedas,upanishads
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:45:16
The revelation of this Book is from Allah, Exalted in Power, Full of Knowledge, Who forgives sin, accepts repentance, is strict in punishment, and has a long reach (in all things). There is no god but He: to Him is the Final Goal." (40:2-3)

this is a tremendous revelation..very important is dis "who forgives sin.accepts repentance"..in the vedas,its mentioned(later saya kasi quotes lah) one must go beyond sins,and virtues...
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:48:45
"Say: Call upon Allah, or call upon Ar-Rahman: by whatever name you call upon Him, (it is well): For to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names." (17:110)

in the vedas/upanishads/gita and any other indian holy scriptures,brahman is the supreme,omnipotent,the one god,the supreme reality...
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:53:23
4. This is the life in things that shines manifested by all these beings; a man of knowledge coming wholly to know this, draws back from creeds and too much disputings. In the Self his delight, at play in the Self, doing works, - the best is he among the knowers of the Eternal.
-mundkaka upanishad translation
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 10:54:01
who write these books? human or god?
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 10:57:03
All is her play with the Supreme; all is her manifestation of the mysteries of the Eternal, the miracles of the Infinite. All is she, for all are parcel and portion of the divine Conscious-Force.


Sri Aurobindo

Maheshwari






Maheshwari
Imperial Maheshwari is seated in the wideness above the thinking mind and will and sublimates and greatens them into wisdom and largeness or floods with a splendour beyond them.
For she is the mighty and wise One who opens us to supramental infinities and the cosmic vastness, to the grandeur of the supreme Light, to a treasure-house of miraculous knowledge, to the measureless movement of the Mother's eternal forces. Tranquil is she and wonderful, great and calm for ever.

Nothing can move her because all wisdom is in her; nothing is hidden from her that she chooses to know; she comprehends all things and all beings and their nature and what moves them and the law of the world and its times and how all was and is and must be. A strength is in her that meets everything and masters and none can prevail in the end against her vast intangible wisdom and high tranquil power.


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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 11:00:55
can u all see d connections?

The four Powers of the Mother are four of her outstanding Personalities, portions and embodiments of her divinity through whom she acts on her creatures, orders and harmonises her creations in the worlds and directs working out of her thousand forces.


Sri Aurobindo

MahaKali






MahaKali
Mahakali is of another nature.

Not of wideness but of height, not wisdom but force and strength are her peculiar power. There is in her a overwhelming intensity, a mighty passion of force to achieve, a divine violence rushing to shatter every limit and obstacle.

All her divinity leaps out in a splendour of tempestuous action; she is therefore swiftness, for the immediately effective process, the rapid and direct stroke, the frontal assault that carries everything, before it.


allah exalted in power?umm...?
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 11:52:36
Vampires, Last time u both strongly say only PR...now keep options open...confused lar... means u change rite?
_____________________________________________

Aiya, Vampires...the blood you sucked must have confused you lah. No need to say also should know option is always open wat. It's like food you makan, if the stall (PR)you eat at state they sell good food and did, you eat there lah. UMNO-BN's is selling smelly food (corruption, religious intolerance, anti-meritocracy, cronoism,etc.), that's why we reject them. You choose them because they provide you blood to suck...you think we don't know mae. But if the PR start offering smelly food while UMNO-BN change to good healthy food, cannot change mae...so stupid ah..if Azlina stop giving you blood to suck, you will also change wat...what is so confusing about..
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 12:23:54
written by mimag2005, As I mentioned earlier, the present day Muslims are being treated with DISDAIN because they have strayed far, far away from ALLAH and HIS HOLY QURAN.
----------------------------------------------

The list of great muslims given by you merely shows being muslims do not bar you from greatness. It does not prove that the Islamic religion is any better than the inherent potential in human to become great. For example, how do you explain that those who NEVER believed in Allah nor follow the QURAN managed to produced so many great leaders of ALL fields and continue to do so? Could it be there are flaws somewhere, and because of religious dogmas, muslims cannot see them which brought about their demise from greatness over time?

I even have muslim friends who state the NEP is a reward from God, just as the oil in the desert which keeps the Arap rich. But what they would never admit is this has kept muslims backward because they no longer have to work or think as hard as others. Just look at how PAS and those more progressive muslims in UMNO have grown in thoughts and deeds when they did not have such advantages. You mean they believe in a different Allah or read a different Quran or pray less per day? It is YOU, and you alone, who is going to make a difference in your life.
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 12:26:56
milo,
Last time u and batsman say only PR is good.... BN can never be good...in the ugly malaysian...camilus say must keep open mind...now u change to follow her... means u wrong lor... but u bluffing now... means u bad character lar smilies/angry.gif btw, u like to eat smelly food meh?
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written by bogeyman, April 09, 2008 13:16:18
Batsman & Milo,

Be consistent lah....you two were very determined that only PR is good and any other views were condemned as treasonous to your so called noble cause, and accused as being BN's 'cybertroopers'.
Now both of you sing a different tune. That's what pissed me off with the two of you in the begining. If you two had held your tongue about other ppl's views, i would not have a problem with you chaps, whatever views you have, whether I agree or not...they are your views and i will respect that. We would have debated in a civil manner if i feel strongly about your views. we can agree to disagree maturedly.
Say what you want, but don't impose your views on others as the only correct one and others are stupid. You needn't have called others spies for having other views.That triggered it for me.
I wasn't here to pick fights. We are all here because we seek justice, equality, freedom of choice, peace & brotherhood.We have all found a common ground in M-T and we are abusing it, don't you think? (when i say 'we' it includes myself, too).

I am offering an olive branch....it's your choice.

FYI i was elated that Grant got kicked out as well. He deserved it.

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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 13:16:55
vampiress,

There is a time dimension in choices ma...as of NOW, I can't see how the BN is better than the PR almost on all areas that matters. That is the basis of the choice and the reason for defending the PR. So choosing PR does not amount to a closed mind, in fact a logical choice based on an open mind. Your team-mate Camilus spoke as though we should shift to BN NOW despite the logic against that pick. His recommendation is not merely a product of a closed mind, but one which is blindly illogical. Vampiress, if you shift from blood to milk, you will understand. smilies/grin.gif
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 13:58:44
milo,
U r the really bad type smilies/angry.gif I think u just wanna trouble making here. U and batsman first say only PR good. Camilus, she say ne1 can change...BN or ppl or anyone can change... u r the close mind wor smilies/angry.gif I should come suck your blood... so-chai! Big trouble maker.

bogeyman,
i think i read grant and sathia became friends...good for them
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written by bogeyman, April 09, 2008 14:04:06
Vampiress,

yeah... at least Grant realised the error of his ways. Good for him. Great lesson for all in M-T.
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written by bogeyman, April 09, 2008 15:12:46
hi Camillus,
i can't really answer your question but i guess that it's partially due to the fact that our true identities are not disclosed in M-T, and bcos of that, many abuse that privilege to vent out their pent-up frustrations for god-knows-what reasons.

as to the your witty bit, that's the trouble with some (not all) readers. Some get it, some don't and they get upset. They can't tell wit/sarcasm/satire/parody when they see one as RPK had pointed out many many times. Not all of us are sofisticated enough to get it.

may i suggest to all readers and contributors, to prevent any further misunderstanding by using the emoticons provided when you make a witty remark. i know, i know.... it kills the fun of letting people second guess.... but hey.. that's just my humble suggestion. smilies/tongue.gif
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written by SUV, April 09, 2008 15:49:14
man or god?godly man!! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 17:38:44
camilus, bogeyman and vampiress...talk the same, think the same, and appear everywhere to defend each other at the same time..but the role is different from the pattern...mmm...interesting!

Anyway, it is a good thing camilus finally get the point. If you stoop low, someone may be willing to stoop even lower to get you to realise your ways. There are many ways to teach or get somneone to change. It work, didn't it?

And bogeyman, oh yes, only yours are witty, all others are not. And only the three of you are the intelligent ones around who can understand jokes. This is the type of arrogance that made the BN lost, and why your views won't go through. Keep it up with your "alternate views", the posters will enjoy debunking them.

vampiress, add some substance to your comments, then you may earn a response. Didn't Azlina teach you. Oh, I forgot! those are not your role. Those are the roles of bogeyman and camilus. so sorry (see, I apologised!)

I will put an icon as suggested by bogeyman. (see, I don't mind following what is good!) smilies/grin.gif
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 18:06:16
bogeyman,

Say what you want, but don't impose your views on others as the only correct one and others are stupid. You needn't have called others spies for having other views.That triggered it for me.
----------------------------------

wow! What a spin! Firstly, based on the facts, I did not engage you when you were belittling batsman. I was only debating with Camilus who used profanities and what I considered unfair generalisation. But you brough me into the debate by quoting me as you attacked batsman. And do so with degoratory remarks, and like Camilus, everyone else opinion were dumb (both explicitly and implicitly stated); only your team postings are smart alternate views. Camilus (and you later) had it from me not because of "alternate views", but because he (and you) start calling those who debate his views stupid....syxl, Rhan, batsman are some of his 'victims'.

Debate inteligently and fairly, and you will get the same treatment (from me at least). Readers are smart enough to differentiate. They will know what to pick and choose what is right and wrong based on the merits of the arguements posted.
If your arguements are sound, you will find more often than not I will agree more than disagree.

btw, even when we say we are open to options, like if the PR rules badly, we can always switch to BN, we are also attacked and the words slanted out of context. So, what is your real intension of the debate? Where is the debate based on openness you asked for? Is Camilus "practicing what he preach" with such closed minded views?
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written by SYXL, April 09, 2008 20:46:14
Penangite wrote: "I have watched the Barack Obama speech some time ago. Malaysia has got a long way to go in terms of race and race-based politics."

IMHO, we don't know enough about OBAMA for him to be relevant. We really do not need to quote American politicians (unless they are dead and have a record of integrity and humaneness - non-racist, non-oppressive, non-predatory, etc).

Obama is on record for not ruling out attacking Iran (not in defense but over the current nuclear stand-off, altho he says he 'prefers' negotiation.

If Obama becomes the US President, we'll see what he's like. Remember, America (the govt - not all its people) is the number one terrorist country in the world, followed closely by Britain.
Malaysians must never be blind to this fact.
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written by SYXL, April 09, 2008 21:12:51
Everyone here is absolutely right about respecting others' opinions.

BUT ONE CAUTION – only if the opinion is given in GOOD FAITH. Otherwise, we don’t need to respect such opinions and the person giving it, but neither should we abuse them in any way. The right treatment is to ignore such stirrers because that’s what they are.

A lot of the western media express opinions 'justified' by 'facts' that our outright lies and forgeries - HIDING BEHIND AND ABUSING FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Remember than such promoters of democracy and FOS deliberately apply DOUBLE STANDARDS and just too many THIRD WORLD people have not got smart up to these demons - see their spins on the Middle East, etc, etc.

So, some are provocateurs and stirrers - the western predators have the experience in this way beyond you or me.

There is a particular comment poster in MT (I won't name him) who is NOT a Malaysian and his posts are clearly meant to create trouble especially on race issues. He is NOT an honest foreigner giving his views.

My suggestion is we should JUST IGNORE such people completely. We don’t need to abuse such people.

Such people still PREACH AND EXPORT THEIR 'MORALS' AND VALUES to the Third World. My message to these devils is "Shut Up and Go Home".
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written by Camillus, April 09, 2008 22:06:29
Hi Bogeyman,
Not everyone hides behind a pseudoname. Some use their real names. They then speak their mind (whether right or wrong), hoping to get useful thoughts in return - new ideas to broaden their horizon. Instead, they are met with hostility. Why? Due to lack of... no... non-existance of any sort of tolerance of ideas (that differ) and blue-sky thinking.

Milo,
A person can and should be allowed to debate with less than correct reasoning (or less intelligently, as you put it). We need to accept this. Not insult and ridicule and call them 'cybertroopers', etc.

SYXL,
I read your posts under the 'Siamese Twins' article. You are sooooo correct. In your own words, the economy needs to come to ruin. Way to go! So much for not abusing freedom of speech! Economic stability and political stability do not go hand-in-hand - they're mutually exclusive. And yeah, keep up the good work. Now we have 'western cybertroopers' apparently! Only you... could be so sharp!

Back to Bogeyman,
Now you see why I feel that we're in dire straits? Why I call the majority of Malaysians, stupid (for want of a harsher word)?

Anyway, it is normal for people to feel threatened and insecure, especially when faced with something new, something they cannot relate to, something they fear, something or someone more articulate, etc... etc... so, Malaysians are no exception to the rule. What a pity! But Malaysians have the arrogance to think that just because they voted differently this time, they can do wonders - that even the Brits, Nordics, etc. could not! Even RPK agreed and rebuted such arrogance (e.g. SYXL) in his 'Siamese Twins' article chat.


P.S. I can't be bothered to point out the sarcasm.
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written by batsman, April 09, 2008 22:48:26
Camillus, Bogeyman - You two seem very sensitive about being called cybertroopers. Have we hit upon a raw nerve? All you have done here are expounding racist views and attacking commentators with profanity for no good reason. If that is not the work of Azalina cybertroopers, what is?

BTW, what you write above are just a diarrhoea of words and make no sense whatsoever. All you do is insult Malaysians and spread your filthy racism.

Isn't your pseudoname revealing! Camillus was a soldier assasin for the Emperor Tiberius who got rewarded for getting rid of political enemies of the Emperor by being made one of the Consuls of Rome. Ancient assasin, modern cybertrooper - all the same.
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written by batsman, April 09, 2008 22:56:47
Bogeyman - Still trying one of your blind-siding tricks? Putting people off guard by offering apologies and then attacking them as they tone down? If this is not dirty cybertrooper tactics, what is?

Azalina's not getting very good help these days. What a bunch of losers and incompetents!
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 23:24:49
Hey bogeyman, don't try to spin words again, I only asked camelius "Did your wife told you?" when he made all the wild guesses about me and everybody, while bragging about his "experience" and "ten languages". Camelius was insulting practically everyone in every thread he was in and only started becoming more "tamed" after he is treated with his own dose of medicine, profanities of similar strengths he used on others. He is back again anyway, just check his last post, calling Malaysian stupid, when he spoke like a idiot. You are no better anyway, thus far, so don't try to teach others how to post civilly until you behave yourself. Cyber trooper is a recognied creature here in MT (ask RPK), so why do you feel so insulted if you are called because you behaviour like one?

Yes, SYXL, these are provocateurs and stirrers, clear as stream water in the mountain. Notice more than once, this camilius fella trying to stir malays against the other races and vice versa. With the exchanges, the reader will be in a better oposition to identify them, and be careful of their views to subtly stir opinions to those of the BN.

And batsman, your research is revealing indeed. So a name does reveal a person's hidden identify. So he not a cyber trooper but a cyber-assasin. Interesting!
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 23:43:29
written by Camillus, April 09, 2008 | 22:06:29
Hi Bogeyman,
Not everyone hides behind a pseudoname. Some use their real names. They then speak their mind (whether right or wrong), hoping to get useful thoughts in return - new ideas to broaden their horizon. Instead, they are met with hostility. Why? Due to lack of... no... non-existance of any sort of tolerance of ideas (that differ) and blue-sky thinking.

------------------------------------------

Yes, assasin, if that is your real name, that's good for you. We will just call you Cyber (instead of Mr.) assasin then. So using a pseudoname like bogeyman means that person is "hidding"? Glad your friend agree with you, as he is not as open as you to give his "real" name.

And of course we Malaysians are proud of what we did as it is a breakthrough for us to create a chance to have a two-party system. Even if we were arrogant, it is no where near as arrogant as you, when you brag of your "vast experience", "broad travelling" and "speaking ten languages" while using these as a basis to call others stupids and fools. That's your EQ level in communication? Daneil Goleman could have sued you for defiling his work.
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 23:50:23

written by Milo, March 25, 2008 | 04:55:18

good, now show us whether your wife has breast, post us her details.
report abusevote downvote upVotes: -4


written by Milo, March 25, 2008 | 06:11:54

Nice address, you have, but no balls and no breast


Milo = batsman? Hmmm... maybe
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written by Milo, April 09, 2008 23:54:02
bogeyman: Camillus, I should have listened to my own advise and disengage from those two.
I thought that maybe they have potential...i was wrong. Such paranoia...shheeesh
_____________________________________

In one subtly derisive sentence, you invite nothing less than hostility by casting doubt on your sincerity...That's your second nature I suppose. Anyway, nice try at the pseudo-peace effort.
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written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 23:58:00
written by Milo, April 09, 2008 | 23:24:49
Hey bogeyman, don't try to spin words again, I only asked camelius "Did your wife told you?" when


Liar liar pants on fire...mile is the very bad heart wan smilies/angry.gif
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written by batsman, April 10, 2008 00:48:11
Bogeyman - DAP and PAS have something in common. It is called decency. You 3 cybertroopers obviously have none.
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written by Milo, April 10, 2008 00:50:15
written by Vampiress, April 09, 2008 | 23:58:00
March 26, 2008 | 10:23:32
Aiya, we are cypertroopers, so wat? we admit lah! Why should we deny, bogeyman?

-----------------------------------

Liar liar pants on fire...mile is the very bad heart wan
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written by batsman, April 10, 2008 00:50:44
Bogeyman - If you want to show off your wit , try writing a book. This is not the forum to show off. Besides you are just a lame duck trying to show off a waddling quack. (thx for the tips cheekhiaw, heeheehee)
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written by bogeyman, April 10, 2008 00:57:17
indeed i was right from the very beginning. those two are just a couple of children.

milo, weak attempt to sidetrack... try harder....still waiting for your defence
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written by Vampiress, April 10, 2008 02:30:13
batsman (aka buttsman) = milo (boy blunder), confirm!
maybe batsman = milo = camillus? hmmm... yeah lor, batsman create milo and camillus to look like opposite... then trouble making... smilies/angry.gif
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written by bogeyman, April 10, 2008 09:54:51
vampiress,
batsman = milo, big possibility.
but Camillus ??? No la... don't insult our friend. If like that..must be acute case of schizophrenia, man. No la... Camillus in a different league. Pro vs amateurs.

Milo, why so silent.... or is it you turn into batsman to create diversion from your blatant lies? Milo Checkmated by Vampiress. smilies/grin.gif
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written by bogeyman, April 10, 2008 09:57:30
Looks like me, sounds like me, but it's not me smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
Milo= Batsman =Lingham??
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written by bogeyman, April 10, 2008 11:55:57
Hey Vampiress,

u know how to paste jpeg file into this comment? I got evidence of who really is the foreign spy. Hint- it's not Camillus smilies/grin.gif
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written by Milo, April 10, 2008 14:18:16
bogeyman, April 10, 2008 | 09:57:30
Looks like me, sounds like me, and it's me
Vampiress = Bogeyman = Camillus = Cytrooper
_________________________________

Ya, we already know.
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written by Vampiress, April 11, 2008 00:39:09
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written by Camillus, April 11, 2008 01:28:36
Milo & batsman,

My name is Luis Camillus. In EU, we like to use our second name - if there is one. You could not even get this from my last post which was oh-so-blatantly-obvious. Are you then, not stupid? As you are Malaysians, are you then, not stupid Malaysians? I do know that you both are jealous - my name is wonderful and unique - even in EU/UK! Don't you think? What kind of f**k*d up names did you guys get? That bad huh? To have to hide? smilies/wink.gif No wonder you guys like to use a Western name in front! smilies/wink.gif Keep admiring us Westerners - you might - given your 'slow' genes - eventually learn a thing or two. No breath holding though!

I see you know how to use ****** or a search engine to do searches. Well done! Not utterly stupid then - there might just be hope for the both of you. Try to improve your information searching skills though. My ancestor, Marcus Furius Camillus, was a great man. As was Camillus de Lellis (later on in his life at least). What else do you want to know? You might as well ask me - you stupid Malaysians cannot even do an online search properly. No wonder UMNO rules supreme! Haha...

Tell me about your origins then? Which slum or hole did you originate from?
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written by NCantona, April 11, 2008 12:36:30
Dear all and Camillus,

Looks like even ppl in MT haven't grown up yet to accept certain opinions. Well, we have a long way to go. It's a start. A great start!! RPK has done a magnificent wonder by stirring up our minds. Thanks RPK.

About the blog RPK wrote, it's somehow the truth. Even MT readers and commentators like us cannot come up with constructive ideas and opinions before we blast off smone (including me). Look at what happened to Camillus’s opinion or comment. MT readers went on all day long fighting and ended up not in a constructive solution. But in naming people cyber troopers or batsman = sm 1 else. Smtimes it's interesting and funny to read these types of comments.
It makes us look like school kids fighting over a game of football, end up calling others names.

Refering to Camillus, the first point. Hypocrites are true.Absolutely correct. I do agree with that point. Even I myself am a hypocrite. Have to be if you wanna live in this world of hypocrisy. Even though I don’t like my job, I would show to my boss as though I’m really into it. That’s hypocrisy. And I know most of you will do that. So basically all of us are hypocrites.

Well, for 2nd point, I agree and do not agree. Most of are followers coz not all are born leaders. Ppl say leaders are born and not made. Only a few of us can qualify to become leaders. Not all can become Gandhi or Adolf Hitler. Now you would ask why I state two totally different attitude leaders, Gandhi is non-violent but Hitler is the other way around. Leader’s ideology is not important but how they bring up the ideology and make the followers understand is important. You can’t say Malaysians are stupid. We are just ignorant. We don’t care abt wats going around us. We just follow. But remember not all of us follow. When you here can write up yor comments in MT, you can be considered to have leadership quality in you. Bcoz you are not afraid to voice out. But the prob is you dunno how to voice it out constructively like RPK. That’s why most of us end up as followers and not leaders. Nobody says West is good. But they have some good credits with them, especially in the ways of implementing a law. Implementation is excellent whereas Malaysia is rite the opposite. There will be sign saying “Hawkers are prohibited from selling here”. But right next to the board there will be a small hawker stall. Westerners got excellence and good governance but not morality and ethical values. But in Malaysia we are in the losing side on all the 4 things. This is merely because of ignorance of people.

3rd point of stereotyping and jumping to conclusion, not all are like that. But as I said bloggers in Msia are still learning. We are new to the world of blogging. New to the world of expressing opinions. It takes time to change. But the change is here. We will see a totally new cyber community of Malaysia soon.

And your last one saying “As for religion, those who believe in a 'God' are impractical dreamers!”, sorry I don’t agree with you. If I ask you what you believe in, you may say only science. Human are born with the belief system intact. You believed when your mum said that this is your dad. You believed when the teacher said 1 1 = 2. You believed when the science explains you live on oxygen. But have you ever felt, tasted or smell oxygen. Belief is what a human is made of. When you say, those in believe in God are impractical dreamers, that’s a mistake. But since that’s your believe I can’t change it and I won’t. If you want, you can change by yourself but not by others.
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written by batsman, April 11, 2008 12:42:43
Camillus - There are thousands of people called Camillus. Not surprised you claim ancestry with the great Marcus Furius Camillus who lived more than 2000 years ago. Able to trace your ancestry so far? Or was it a more recent ancestry that you have. Apparently if I am not wrong, an Isodore Camillus was a tart of Louis 14th. Sure you are not related to this one? heehee
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written by batsman, April 11, 2008 12:47:58
NCantona - You are right about bloggers in Malaysia still learning. I am learning not to take any shit from racist westerners with a superego who prostitute themselves as Azalina's cybertrooper. heehee
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written by bogeyman, April 11, 2008 14:06:26
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written by bogeyman, April 11, 2008 14:11:22
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written by batsman, April 11, 2008 | 12:47:58

NCantona - You are right about bloggers in Malaysia still learning. I am learning not to take any shit from racist westerners with a superego who prostitute themselves as Azalina's cybertrooper. heehee
report abusevote downvote upVotes: 0


A case of "A pot calling an electric kettle black"
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written by batsman, April 11, 2008 19:51:43
Bogeyman - Still swearing unreserved loyalty to Azalina?
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written by Milo, April 11, 2008 20:18:31
Luis Camillus, can you please send in your photo and your passport number so that we can verify if what you said is true?

And bogeyman, you should declare yourself too, as commanded by Camilius, the Proud. Oh, sorry, your photo may looks identical to camilus fella and the blood thirsty vampiress too. One photo will do, then.

Thank You!
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written by Milo, April 11, 2008 20:26:56
Camillus: My ancestor, Marcus Furius Camillus, was a great man.
----------------------------------

My Ancestor is Nestle, a great company. We are taught not to speak foul language in public as it would disgrace our ancestors. You ancestors didn't taught you that? Or was that what made your ancestor great?
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written by Milo, April 11, 2008 20:29:49
written by Vampiress, April 11, 2008 | 00:43:59
Camilus=bad heart, bogeyman=evil, so Camilus=bogeyman-me
---------------------------

Ya, we knew...thanks for confirming.
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written by Camillus, April 11, 2008 21:18:23
NCantona,

Yours is definitely constructive debate and discussion!

1.
That bit on 'impractical dreamers', it was not meant as a statement, but rather, to prove a point, that we Malaysians cannot debate 'tough' issues minus the emotional attachments. The bit on 'stupid' is the same. I mentioned ignorance a few articles ago, and I got 'whacked' as a cybertrooper. Given the fine line between ignorance and stupidity, I used the other word. Look at Milo and batsman! So telling evidence of Malaysian stupidity!

2.
I do not agree on the bit on leadership. No one is a 'born leader'. Leadership skills can be learnt. I also mentioned on 'individualism', with Gandhi and Hitler as perfect examples.

3.
Voicing out constructively? Your post can be easily misconstrued as well! I know of many people who will say, "People vary so much, we should not have to be PC all the time and walk on eggshells". Hence my take on emotional displacement.

4.
As for stereotyping, everyone does it. Not some, but everyone! SYXL criticised me and the West. But what if I say this:
The majority of MT readers are Chinese-Malaysians. They put down the West. Different ideas are crucified. You guys call the West arrogant, terrorists, racists and more. But why idolise us? Why do you 'add' Western first names? Shy of your very own given names? Why not use Musa (instead of Moses)? Or Ibrahim (instead of Abraham)? Or Yusuf (instead of Joseph)? Or Yaakub (instead of Jacob)? Or Harun (instead of Aaron)? Or Daud (instead of David)? I have said this before. It needs to be the 'in thing'. If Muslims and Islam are tops in the world, you can put your mortgage on first names such as Daud, Yusuf, etc.

Why so comfortable with suits? But cause an uproar with songkoks? Suits are equated as being 'Westernised', i.e. modern, hip and most importantly, 'in'.

You see, the Chinese are the most racist amongst us humans! The Chinese subscribe to the herd mentality, where they group and then attack the unsuspecting or otherwise. Take a look at MT - a prime example! What is China called in 'putonghua'?

A person talks about culture, about learning various cultures by means of languages, and leave it to stupid MT readers to put 'spin' and call that person arrogant.


Will everyone respond to the last bit in a manner similar to you? You see, everyone has the right to make 'intelligent' or 'not-so-intelligent' remarks. We just need to accept that. What's OK to you may not be so to another. You say my way with words are not 'constructive'. Tens of millions will beg to differ. But what you did was correct. You did not randomly 'whack' - unlike 99% of MT posters, you provided aa different insight.

Luis Camillus
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written by Camillus, April 11, 2008 21:42:58
written by Camillus, March 22, 2008 | 23:22:21

(continuation)

What's needed in Malaysia is a total mentality shift. A shift away from race-based stereo-typing. A shift away from the above-mentioned parallel-worlds. There's this comment on another thread that says it's OK to stick to one's own race. That's it OK to do business amongst one's own race as one feels it "easier". Bollocks! (pardon my anguage again). If such is the case, then no need for the NEP really! Talk about self-fulfilling! There's no such thing of one race being better at one thing or vocation. Some people will cite the African-Americans and rap music. What about Eminem? Golf with whites? What about Tiger Woods? Please don't respond with such justification, makes it tedious to respond in return

Then comes "de-sensitising". If I were to pose the following questions:

1.
In articles and posts before the elections, there were loads on religion. What if I were to say that anyone who believes in a God is deluded ('cos there is no prove of existence)? Will it be debated constructively? Or will I be crucified?

2.
Question posed by a prominent professor. Why do we call it "Great Britain"? Why the need for the word "great"? What is the Mandarin phrase for the country, China? Why the need to call it as such?

3.
Can the Malaysian-Indians shake off the "pre-conception" that pre-dominantly rubber-tappers and lawyers?

4.
Can the Malays in Malaysia compete on equal footing?


Will I be branded a racist and a troublemaker? Will I be crucified? Will I get derogatory remarks in which posters respond by picking out excerpts and not seeing it as part of the greater post?

The gist is... can Malaysians (ever) discuss the above in a constructive manner? And I answer... "No way! Definitely not in current Malaysia!" The above would be taken as being my very own "perceptions" and "views". I'll very probably draw criticism, rebuke and negative remarks - rather than being offered alternative perceptions with clear arguments to back those alternative perceptions - and thus prove "mine" wrong.

I guess I have to temper my keenness to return to Malaysia and make do with family visits every now and then!


NCantona,
This is one of my earlier posts - when I hinted on 'de-sensitising' and not having emotional attachments. Another was on ignorance. All I got was unreasonable 'whacking'. I now know the context of this word 'whack' as used in MT, but 'whack' carries a totally different meaning elsewhere!

Back to my point, I observed the responses and made deductions. Trends and profiling are done the world over. Just as stereotyping is!
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written by Camillus, April 11, 2008 21:54:13
written by batsman, April 11, 2008 | 12:42:43
Camillus - There are thousands of people called Camillus


Do you know of any with such a name? In 38 springs/summers/autumns/winters, I've only come across an Irishman named Camillus while in Dublin. And that was his first name.

Yes, we do try to trace our origins - that far back! Try it!
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written by Milo, April 11, 2008 22:08:35
NCantona,

Check every post of this few fellas, in particular Camilius, and it will be clear to you who he is. The foul language and the names calling are almost never ending, including the latest one above.

On one hand, he will say we malaysians cannot debate constructively and be detatched emotionally (like a real sensible man to the unsuspecting), but before you can take a deep breath, he will do exaltly the opposite himself. Almost every post of his is laced with accusation (directly or subtly) that Malaysians are stupid and fools, and it really a surprised he found the reaction to his statements surprising. He was whacked precisely because of his arrogance and insolence, same as why the BN was whacked in the election. He was tagged a cypertrooper precisely because he acted like one - instigating and planting seeds of dissatisfaction in the guise of giving alternate views, trying to sway the people's views back to BN using unsustainable reasons. Everyone knows how hard the rakyat had worked to get where we were today. So his veil try to cause doubt and disunity will continue to be responded to.

Of course, he would hope we are too stupid to notice or felt too polite and tired to attack him back. Perhaps, that was why he was surprised when his team got hit. He is just a recalcitrant who would never learn or perhaps, to be kinder to him, he was only trying to earn a living - it is just his dirty job!
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written by Milo, April 11, 2008 22:26:57
Camilius:I do not agree on the bit on leadership. No one is a 'born leader'.
--------------------------

'Born leader' means those with natural talent to be a leader, just like talented musicians and athletes. So Mozart cannot be described as a born musician? And any fool can be 'trained' to be a Lin Dan or Pele? I am sure even a born retard can see that!
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written by Camillus, April 11, 2008 22:51:14
written by Milo, April 11, 2008 | 22:26:57

Camilius:I do not agree on the bit on leadership. No one is a 'born leader'.
--------------------------

'Born leader' means those with natural talent to be a leader, just like talented musicians and athletes. So Mozart cannot be described as a born musician? And any fool can be 'trained' to be a Lin Dan or Pele? I am sure even a born retard can see that!


I rest my case!
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written by bogeyman, April 12, 2008 00:24:05
Camillus,

Not proud to say this, but a good many of them are like Milo - ignorant,bigotted fools. Demographics? No, they are all over the place. Scary isn't it?
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written by bogeyman, April 12, 2008 00:38:24
...
written by Milo, April 11, 2008 | 22:08:35

NCantona,

Check every post of this few fellas, in particular Camilius, and it will be clear to you who he is. The foul language and the names calling are almost never ending, including the latest one above.



written by Milo, March 25, 2008 | 04:55:18

good, now show us whether your wife has breast, post us her details.
report abusevote downvote upVotes: -4



written by Milo, March 25, 2008 | 06:11:54

Nice address, you have, but no balls and no breast




NCantona,

You be the judge. I'm going to expose this liar on every thread that he enters in M-T.
And thanks again, Vampiress for your help.
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written by bogeyman, April 12, 2008 00:53:26
Milo aka retard,

You are really so stupid to think that we'll fall for that 'send in your photo and your passport number so that we can verify if what you said is true?' shit.

You haven't even answered for your lies that Vampiress exposed, and you wanna make demands.

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written by Vampiress, April 12, 2008 01:52:04
bogeyman, u just saving lar all the article...dont forget to open the 'low-rated' comments...this buttsman and boy blunder have many low raated...then just saving as from the 'File' menu...save as htm/html to the folder.

or u can do as i see sathia suggsting...when u write a new comment pangkah the subscriber via email box...but all komen will come to inbox wor.
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written by Vampiress, April 12, 2008 01:56:49
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written by Vampiress, April 12, 2008 02:08:00
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written by Vampiress, April 12, 2008 02:09:07
soli lar bogeyman, i dunno wor... maybe look like but no work smilies/sad.gif
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written by Vampiress, April 12, 2008 02:13:29
giving alternate views, trying to sway the people's views back to BN using unsustainable reasons

Dis milo boy blunder very confuse lar, first say can change...cannot change...can change smilies/angry.gif
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written by bogeyman, April 12, 2008 02:16:34
thanks for the tips, vampiress. Will consider using it when needed.
Shall recommend that azalina give you big bonus for your good detective work smilies/wink.gif

BTW, it's ok if the picture no work. Keep on trying though.
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written by batsman, April 12, 2008 10:31:21
Bogeyman - Still waiting for you to post your jpeg. Where's your world famous intelligence and wit? Can't even handle jpeg pictures. heehee. Self-proclaimed wit is just a half-wit.
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written by batsman, April 12, 2008 10:34:01
Camillus - Don't be so elitist lar! There are many people called Camillus - just look up the phone book! What a stupid dumb ass in self-denial! No way related to Marcus Furius Camillus. Insult to the great man!
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written by Camillus, April 12, 2008 17:18:12
Dear batsman,

The question was, "Do you know of anyone with such a name?". Not, "Can you find similar names in the phone book (which may be made up)?". Did you not read the question? Or can you not read? Oh sorry, my bad! You're a Malaysian!.
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written by bogeyman, April 12, 2008 19:40:46
batsman,
so vain ah? want to see your own picture? Too ugly lah, sure ban in M-T wan smilies/grin.gif
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written by batsman, April 13, 2008 14:27:13
Camillus - If you don't know how to use the phone book, try the yellow pages under tarts and prostitutes - maybe you can find family there. heeheehee BTW a cognomen is not like a surname. To the ancient Romans a cognomen means you are from that house. If the house loses its grandeur, the familty disperese and does not use the cognomen again. since Camillus was a cognomenof a great house, Romans steered clear in case people claim they were trying to link their own miserable names to the houses of great persons. Only ambitious assassins used the same cognomen again. So don;t tell me you can trace your ancestry back 2000 years - liar!

In another case, pimps and prostitutes also rediscovered the name as exotic and foreign sounding - just as one famous spy and tart used the name Mata Hari. In other cases, prostitutes also used the name because it sounds like cameltoes and makes it easier to ply their trade. So chances are - you are related to prostitutes rather than the great Marcus Furius Camillus.

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written by batsman, April 13, 2008 14:29:13
Bogeyman - i admit I am quite ugly, but never as ugly as you, oh great mother of all fart sniffers. heeheehee
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written by Camillus, April 13, 2008 18:05:45
Stupid stupid batsman,

Learn to read! The word I used is 'cognome' - not 'cognomen'. 'Cognome' in Italian means surname. Now you are even trying to teach me my mother tongue - Latin languages!!! Look who has the super-ego?

Why are you Malaysians so dumb? Actually, as the majority of MT readers are Chinese-Malaysians, why are you Chinese-Malaysians so dumb? And so racist at that? But still want to use Western first names?

I answer... " A chinaman is a chinaman is a chinaman" - take it anyway you want! One way of looking at it... I can go to China or Malaysia and pick up Chinese (and I don't mean the language). You can't do that, can you now, batsman? Hence the jealousy!
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written by batsman, April 13, 2008 20:40:40
Camillus - Look who's the dumb ass! Using Italian for no rhyme or reason. In MT blog of all places! heeheeheee. Notice something else? Why so many "stupids"? heeheehee. Losing your cool Camillus?

Go ahead and pick up all the Chinese girls you want. Only don't make empty bragging here. Trying to sound macho, expert and lily white? Aiyaaah. don't look down on your own ancestry lar! Why so shame wor? OK if your ancester may be possible whore wah! No good wan suffer many insecurity complex! Go screw Chinese whores better wah! heeheehee
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written by bogeyman, April 13, 2008 21:17:06
Buttsman,
Bad enough if you are stupid, but you are willfully stupid. That's worse. I think you just set a new standard to wilfull stupidity.

BTW, where's Vampiress, I love her one-liners. Few words but goes a long way...
Not like buttsman....yadda..yadda ...duh...
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written by Vampiress, April 13, 2008 23:43:49
Yes lor... all is whore...malay, chinese, indian all whore...buttsman who u whoring your butt to? smilies/grin.gif
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written by bogeyman, April 14, 2008 12:01:31
Haha! Buttsman showing his desperation... looking for lampard for support. What a LOOOOOSER!! smilies/grin.gif
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written by batsman, April 14, 2008 14:26:02
Bogeyman - look who's desperate? Lampard just called me a rabid dog. Would I try to get her support? Many times I wonder why I waste time with this idiot. If not for the fact that cyberbullies and cybertroopers have to be stopped, I wouldn't give you one more second of my time. What a dumb ass!
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written by bogeyman, April 14, 2008 16:06:14
Oh yes, my mistake. Lampard was at the other article. Thanks for informing, you rabid dog. So that leaves you alone now, LOOOSER!!!
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