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When good is bad and bad is good PDF Print
Monday, 31 December 2007 17:02

It is not that Islam is violent or that Islam teaches violence. It is that all religions are violent and all religions teach violence. The only difference is, Muslims are good Muslims and they follow their religious teachings whereas those of other religions are bad Jews, Christians, etc., in that they do not follow what their religion teaches them.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

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Subversives should not be allowed to voice out ideas, says Syed Ali,” screamed the headlines of this Bernama news items yesterday.

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 (Bernama) -- Subversives and radicals should not be given opportunities to voice out their ideas and views because they pose a threat to the country's peace and stability, said Cheras Umno chief, Senator Datuk Syed Ali Alhabshee.

"We want the government to take stern action, if there is a need to use the ISA (Internal Security Act), then so be it," he told Bernama.

He was commenting on the remarks by Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak in Keningau, Sabah, yesterday that the government would take stern action against any group bent on creating chaos in the country to gain power.

Earlier, Syed Ali had presented clothes and schooling materials to 50 orphans from Al-Qadim Organisation donated by the Jalan Peel Umno branch and local people's associations.

That was what Bernama reported Syed Ali Alhabshee as saying. In case many of you don't know, 'Syed' means his forefathers (not 'four fathers') came from the land of the Prophet Muhammad. 'Alhabshee', in turn, means his ancestors originally came from Ethiopia. This probably happened in the days when Islam was expanding and the Muslim army was conquering the areas surrounding the Arabian Peninsular. Those who resisted the Muslim army and lost the war would either be killed or captured and taken as slaves (while the beautiful women would become your plaything). So Syed Ali's ancestors were probably Ethiopian prisoners brought back to the Arabian Peninsular as slaves to look after the camels and clean out their shit every morning until the day either they or the camels died.

But Malays, being the simple-minded people that they are and a race that is always awed by anything and everything that allegedly comes from the land of the Prophet, would certainly treat what this descendant of a slave from Ethiopia has to say with great importance (hell, they even made him a Senator). After all, he does carry a 'Syed' in front of his name and all those with a 'Syed' or 'Sharifah' in front of their names are 'special' people because they are supposed to be descendants of the Prophet (or at least descendants of those who cleaned the shit from the Prophet's camels).

Yes, I remember 20 or 30 years ago when parents would offer their anak dara (virgin daughters) to a 'Tok Syed' for the night so that their daughter can 'terima berkat' (receive blessings). This would involve the 'Tok Syed' impregnating the virgin daughter who would then be blessed with the sperm of a descendant of the Prophet. Hey, this is true, no bullshit, and I almost changed my name from 'Raja' to 'Syed' but then I did not see many beauties on offer so it would have been a total waste of time as far as I was concerned (I suppose 'Tok Syeds' are not too fussy and have set lower standards for themselves).

But that is really not what I want to talk about today. What I want to talk about is the recent tragic assassination of Benazir Bhutto. I was shocked when I first received that SMS informing me about the assassination. I just couldn't understand why they would want to do something like that. My immediate and unthinking response was I hope it was not a Muslim who did this. On second thoughts, maybe it is better after all if a Muslim did carry out the assassination because if a Hindu had done it I just can't imagine the ethnic cleansing that would follow. As it is, the India-Pakistan conflict has already claimed more than one million lives.

Actually, calling it an Indian-Pakistani conflict is not quite right. It was actually a Hindu-Muslim conflict that resulted in India being partitioned into separate regions for Hindus and Muslims to keep them from each other's throats. The conflict of course continued even after the partitioning of India and it thereafter became known as the India-Pakistan conflict when it should really have been called the Hindu-Islam conflict.

Anyway, the brouhaha of the Benazir assassination made us forget the first anniversary of Saddam Hussein's hanging on 30 December last year. I was also very upset when I saw the manner in how they killed Saddam. I of course do not condone what Saddam did but if you have to kill a man as punishment for his crimes then the condemned person should at least be allowed to die with dignity. A man should not huff and puff his last breathe at the end of a swinging rope to the sounds of taunting and cursing. You are sending him to his Maker. Is it so wrong to allow him to leave this world in peace and with his dignity intact?

The last 50 years or so have seen the most violent side of Islam. Actually this has not been happening over only the last 50 years. It is just that with radio and television, and now the internet, the world has better access to information -- so it is more visible now than it was in, say, the 1800s and the period before that. Today it is in real-time so you get to see it as it happens. But the violence has always been there from the period soon after the Prophet's death. It is just that we did not see it from the comfort of our living rooms. Many of the Muslim leaders down to the Caliphs of the Medina period suffered violent deaths, as did the children and grandchildren of the Prophet. Yes, that's right, even the immediate family and descendants of the Prophet were not spared this violence.

Are Muslims violent by nature? Is this in their genes? Or is Islam a violent religion and that is why the followers and believers of Islam are so violent?

No, it is not that Muslims are violent by nature. Many are actually very nice people (me included -- unless you say something stupid, then I whack you to kingdom come). And it is also not Islam that is at fault. Sure, I know what the Islam-phobics are now going to say. Islam is a violent religion. Islam teaches violence. The Quran teaches Muslims to become violent. And so on and so forth.

You are actually only partly correct. It is not that Islam is violent or that Islam teaches violence. It is that all religions are violent and all religions teach violence. The only difference is, Muslims are good Muslims and they follow their religious teachings whereas those of other religions are bad Jews, Christians, etc., in that they do not follow what their religion teaches them.

The problem, in a nutshell, is that Muslims are good Muslims whereas Jews and Christians are bad Jews and Christians. Now, if the Jews and Christians are good Jews and Christians, then they will be just like Muslims because Judaism and Christianity, just like Islam, all teach the same thing. But while Muslims follow to the letter, and to the spirit, what they are taught, the Jews and Christians are deviants who do not comply to what their religion teaches them. In short, Muslims are bad because they are good whereas Jews and Christians are good because they are bad. Confused? You should be!

Okay, let us look at what Prophet Muhammad and the Quran say. Muhammad said he did not introduce a new religion. The Quran confirms this and talks about the religion of Abraham, the same religion for the followers of Moses and Jesus. Now see what Mathew says:

"I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5.17,18)

Mathew, just like the Quran, confirms that the teachings and laws of the Prophets before that are to be upheld. None have been abolished or abrogated. Okay, what about the punishment of stoning to death for adulteresses and apostates? This is the so-called barbaric 'Taliban' laws of the Muslims, so say the Islam-phobics. Actually it is not. It is a Jewish-Christian law that Islam 'borrowed'. Remember, Islam is not a new religion but the religion of Abraham, which is also the religion of Moses and Jesus. See what Deuteronomy, chapter 13, has to say about apostasy.

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

That's right, apostates must be killed, and you must strike the first blow. Then the entire community is to join in and keep stoning the apostate until he or she stops breathing. That is what Moses and Jesus taught us if you go by the correct teachings of Judaism and Christianity. And Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not new religions but the religion of Abraham. And while Muslims are good Muslims, Jews and Christians are bad Jews and Christians. That is the real problem here.

Okay, Muslims go to war and those 'enemies of God' can be killed or, if they admit defeat and surrender, can be captured and taken as slaves. The women of those killed can also be captured even if they did not carry arms. And if the women are beautiful then it is lawful for you to keep them as your concubines and you can have sex with them. Of course, this was practiced many generations ago during the time of the Islamic conquest and is not quite the practice today. But what many do not know is that this is not an Islamic thing but is what the religions before Islam stipulated and this has never been abrogated from the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians or Muslims. In other words, it is still lawful to this very day if you want to do it.

This is what Deuteronomy, chapter 21, has to say:

21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,

21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Another controversy is with regards to the cutting off the hands of thieves. Islam has been whacked as being very barbaric when some Muslim countries implement this law. Is that so? Well, see how the religions before Islam punished wayward sons:

21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

No, Islam is not violent. All religions are violent. The problem is, only Muslims still follow what the Holy Books stipulate. People of the other religions deviate from their religious teachings and refuse to follow what their religions stipulate. This makes them bad people. People who have no respect for their own religion and refuse to follow their religion's teachings are bad people, they can't be good people.

The only crime that Muslims have committed is that they are good Muslims. Just because Jews and Christians refuse to follow what their religion teaches them does not make them good people. They are bad Jews and Christians. If they can't even follow their own religion's teachings how can they be good? How can we trust anyone who does not respect their own religion? And, worse of all, they accuse Muslims of being bad people because, according to them, the Quran is bad and it teaches Muslims to be bad. But the Quran is only a continuation of Abraham's teachings which is the same teachings for the Jews and Christians. Unfortunately, because the west controls the media, they make it appear like good Muslims are bad for following their religion's teachings whereas bad Jews and Christians are good for not following their religion's teachings.

Confused? You should be!

Comments (300)Add Comment
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written by rayden chan, December 31, 2007 17:11:35
try check with SPR:
http://daftarj.spr.gov.my/daftarbi.asp

check this ic number, asked urself, how come this ic appear on SPR's database? is this for real?
> IC: 991214740101
> IC: 910815750017
> IC: 981231081137
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written by orangmsia, December 31, 2007 17:16:11
So many phantom voters??

No wonder our parliament is a joke, just watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_dcV9ZjmTc
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written by RasuahMinister, December 31, 2007 17:35:31
Curious about the "offer virgin daughters" part.
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written by tom73my, December 31, 2007 17:42:49
Hi RPK, just to make things more confusing, and to complete the picture, have you researched what Buddism or Hinduism say about this? I'm really curious.
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written by froggy, December 31, 2007 17:54:26
aiks... RPK... Jesus was the one who said this in the Gospel of Matthew, "I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5.17,1smilies/cool.gif

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written by Terminator, December 31, 2007 17:54:45
Dear RPK,

Are you justifying the stupid or glorifying the pious ????? Religions are guides ... not cast in stone that are to be followed. Are you saying that a hypocritical follower of Islam is better than a truthful non-follower ???? This is why we have so much problems in Malaysia, I guess ... as compared to Turkey !!!

What we need now are intelligent followers that exercise discretion and judgment in whatever they do .... unfortunately that is lacking in Muslims !!!!!
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written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 18:03:01
Dear Terminator, it appears you know nothing about religion.
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written by DontPlayGod, December 31, 2007 18:19:02
When we read of such violence in religion, then it is time that we pause and think, are what we are reading is what God is telling us or are these words of God? If I read such violence and preachers/prohets preaching us to commit violence, then I would immediately reject such a religion.

Imagine, even leaving a religion, deserves the edict of being killed and stoned to death. What sort of spiritual or God's laws are these? Even decent mankind does not approve of such acts, what more of God. How can God be more cruel than Man? We read in the scriptures that God is all mighty, all merciful, all knowing but, on the other hand we read of such violence. No, I can't accept it. This seems more like Satan's teachings. Or was it Satan who disguised himself as a prophet? And we have been following Satan's teachings all along?

I believe Mankind has been born with a knowledge of what is good and bad imbued in him. Follow it. And my sense of right and wrong says that stoning or killing a person for his beliefs is definitely wrong, no matter which prophet or religion says it. Let God be my final arbiter.
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written by DontPlayGod, December 31, 2007 18:24:10
What sort of prohet would tell you to go to war, kill, and take beautiful women to use as you like? I am no prophet, but definitely I would not go so far to tell others to do such things. Does this sound like God is approving or teaching such things? I can't be more merciful, kinder, and more loving than God or the Prohets, can I?
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written by decapod, December 31, 2007 18:34:22
John 8, 3-11

And the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the midst, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" And they were saying this, testing Him, in order that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground.

But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And when they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" And she said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go your way. From now on sin no more."

Let try to comprehend John 8:3-11:-

#1, They brought the woman not to persue justice, but to trap Jesus. If he agreed to stone her, they could accuse him of sedition before the Romans, because since 30AD, the Romans had taken away the Jew's right of capital punishment.

If he said she shouldn't be stoned, they could accuse him of false teaching, because of what the Old Testament law mandated.

#2, It takes two people to commit adultery, so, where's the man? The same law that MM2007 mentioned, stated that both parties were to be produced and prosecuted. Something fishy here.

#3, "Who is without sin among you..." possibly this statement is meant for the "conspirators".

#4, She did sin, but why Jesus not condemn her? How can he do this without making a complete mockery of the God's justice in the Old Testament, as MM2007 have put it?

According to the Bible, He can. As he is willing to die for her sins on the cross instead. He could have seen her faith in him when she called her "Lord" and forgave her.

In the Old Testament, God did ask man to perform capital punishment; and shedding blood is still God's required respond to capital crimes, Jesus did't go against that. Just that according to the New Testament, with Jesus sacrified, there's an escape clause for those who seek forgiveness and repent
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written by ultraman, December 31, 2007 18:40:18
RPK,
You ae right in your intepretation of Deutoronomy. But those were from the old testaments. It was true then before Jesus came to die for us.
When Jesus died on the cross for us and resuurected, he became the life giving spirit.The old law is buried. After that Christians no longer follow that law. We would now follow the law of the Spirit of life. No longer are we governed by the laws of the old testaments. Nomore killing in the name of God . No longer do we need to die for God because God himself died for us.
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written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 18:47:36
Dear ultraman, exactly, the laws were abrogated.
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written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 18:49:54
Dear billykbk, so what's the solution? Keep killing in the name of God until 300 years from now when by then we are matured enough to discuss it?
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written by Msiasky, December 31, 2007 18:53:17
If today I'm not Christian / Muslim .... if you kill me … than how I can become Christian / Muslim ?
If today I'm bad person .... if you kill me …. than how I can become good person ?

If God have mercy to give rain and sunshine and fresh air to allow bad people to live in this world, so who are “you” to kill him/her?

If fact only God can judge, that’s why got judgment day.

So who are “you” to judge that the person must die?

How sure are “you” that God is not giving he / she anther year(s) to live on and now “you” dare to kill him/her while God spare him/her life? Are you sure your judgment is as fair as God?

I believe common Muslim / Christian / Jews does judge other … unless the person dare to say he/she never judge people.... but most of the time they judge not until to the extend to take someone life.


May be because of these reasons the Jews / Christian (please don’t involve politic person) hardly kills now but for some Muslim……I think because the teaching is they got the latest version of God’s word and thus they must follow not like other corrupt it…and so they follow the …………teaching.


To “ultraman”, OLD law is fulfilled in New Testament (through Jesus Christ) otherwise Christian can worship idol now (as state in 10 commandments). Jesus Christ fulfill the law doesn’t mean the old law is not applicable. It is just that in New Testament if the Christian can not fulfilled the GOD laws, through Jesus Christ, the Lord Savior fulfilled for us. That’s why it is say by Grace you are save and not by work. By GRACE.
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written by Melly, December 31, 2007 18:59:18
Jesus was speaking against hypocritical Pharisees legalism. Such legalism was not the keeping of all details of the law but the hollow sham of keeping laws externally to gain merit before God, while breaking them inwardly. It was following the letter of the law but ignoring the spirit. Jesus repudiates the Pharisees' interpretation of the Law and their view of righteousness by works.
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written by ultraman, December 31, 2007 19:04:26
Msiasky,
You are very right. Thank you very much for elaborating further. We are saved by GRACE.
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written by Saint, December 31, 2007 20:30:39
I am happy I was not born a Jew, Christian or a Muslim.
My religion does not condemns any other religions.
It gives me a free will to choose how I want to see God.
It can be formless, a small lamp lit up, or even a stone.
It is all in my mind, and in my self consciousness.
The evolution (reincarnation) of my soul determines my consciousnesses.
My God does not create souls everyday to be released on this earth.
Then He does not need to create a Devil to waylay me.
Then He does not need to create a Hell to punish me in infinity.
My God is Humanity and Love
When I pray I am asked to it this way
"May bliss surround us all and may all souls prosper"
My God is not for my religion but for all souls
My God does not have religion
I am happy I was not born a Jew, Christian or a Muslim.
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written by mikewang, December 31, 2007 20:53:19
Interpretation of the word of God is important.
You can read the WORD metaphorically or you can read them figuratively.

eg. when I say, this pain is killing me.
Does it mean I'm going to be badly hurt because of the pain just because the word "kill" is being used ?

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written by addrk, December 31, 2007 20:53:28
Confused ? No. Confounded ? No. Pathetic Reality ? Yes
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written by addrk, December 31, 2007 21:00:56
There is a fine distinction between sarcastic rhetorics and being blunt. Judging from some of the comments, the article has ben taken at face-value. Which, I believe, defeats the purpose .. unless I am hallucinating.

All major Religions are thousands of years old. And they served their purpose to mankind, then. Religions today, have been hijacked by the self-proclaimed moral-guardians .. ie, the governments. And what is the purpose of government ? To govern ... forever. And if it serves their selfish purpose to interprete the Religion in a way that allows them to govern, forever, then so be it. That is the pathetic reality that we face.

Cheers.
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written by Jhimsi, December 31, 2007 21:28:45
Dear RPK and all,

"Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher,
"Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless."
--- Ecclesiastes 1:2 ---

"I have seen all the things that are done under the sun;
all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind."
--- Ecclesiastes 1:14 ---

I strongly recommend you read the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament.
It is a refreshing book.
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written by alternatif2007, December 31, 2007 21:40:37
There is no compulsion and coercion in regard to religion. The right thing has been made distinct from the wrong thing. So whoever rejects taghoot (the anti-God) and believes in God has taken a firm support that never gives way. And God hears everything and knows every thing (Al-Quran- 2:256).

Islam is based on compassion, love, tolerance, gentleness, and forgiveness. Violence, destruction, and cruelty are against its nature. God says:

O Prophet! Adopt the way of leniency and forbearance; enjoin what is good and avoid useless discussion with the ignorant people (Al-Quran-7:199).

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, instructed to use gentle ways and told that harshness and violence do not help in achieving things. Another saying narrated by Ayesha (wife of the Prophet) says that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said:

“God is kind, and likes kindness; for kindness, God rewards what He never gives due to violence or through any other means.”

This statement of the Prophet is recorded in the Sahih of Muslim in which it is further reported that the Prophet said to Ayesha: “Be kind and avoid violence and indecency. Kindness makes a situation best and unkindness makes it worst.”

This is why Islam prohibits offensive violence and discourages violence even as a defensive means. The Qur’an says:
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written by Jhimsi, December 31, 2007 21:49:51
Ecclesiastes 9:7-10
"Go, eat your food with gladness,
and drink your wine with a joyful heart,
for it is now that God favours what you do.
Always be clothed in white and always anoint your head with oil.
Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun - all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labour under the sun.
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."
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written by Sharma, December 31, 2007 21:55:29
God by whatever name called by man bestowed mankind with 5 senses.This senses were also bestowed to lesser beings all designed for survival.In the same process man and lesser beings aquired non physical attributes such as fear,sorrow. anguish,worry,happiness,joy,intelligence,stupidity,wisd om,selfish,greed,stress,comfort etc etc.
These attributes were all necessary to survive.Mankind has tried to overcome to live his life in harmony and in this pursuit made god in his image.Some man have hijacked this concept of god and monopolised their god of their concept and try to impose this by education,food or sword.To find peace man must be allowed freedom to profess in a god of his own image and adhere to the dictates of the civilised system of his time.No man should compell another to his will or prevent another to find peace within himself as the saying goes it is between man and (his) god
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written by EYFF, December 31, 2007 22:17:23
Sorry RPK , you are mistaken.

The fanatical Islamic militants are truer and faithful to Islam than those moderates you so prefer. The fundamentalists are strictly obedient to the Koran and the Prophet as instructed in Suruh 47:4

Surah 47:4 says: Fa'idhā Laqītumu Al-Ladhīna Kafarū Fađarba Ar-Riqābi Ĥattaá 'Idhā 'Athkhantumūhum Fashuddū Al-Wathāqa Fa'immā Mannāan Ba`du Wa 'Immā Fidā'an Ĥattaá Tađa`a Al-Ĥarbu 'Awzārahā Dhālika Wa Law Yashā'u Allāhu Lāntaşara Minhum Wa Lakin Liyabluwa Ba`đakum Biba`đin Wa Al-Ladhīna Qutilū Fī Sabīli Allāhi Falan Yuđilla 'A`mālahum

Have you ever come across such statement by Christ in the Bible? I rest my case!
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written by Sophia, December 31, 2007 22:17:27
Look at it this way, Muslims in general are not dynamic towards civilizational change, actually. It's either you are like the Wahabbiyah/Talibans in dressing and habits, or say that you remain true to the traditions and be shamelessly modern (Malaysian Muslims are usually in this category). Our traditions, especially the ridiculous ones endure beyond reason (honor killing to name one).

I do not believe in chopping of hands and stoning. To me, if you wish to off the person, do it with dignity whether by hanging, a bullent in the skull, or by injecting/consumption of lethal poison. If he stole, make him replace the equivalent value since it's impractical to jail him. (I prefer the adat Perpatih approach in punishment, or just announce to the world he's a thief. Nothing like social humiliation to encourage honest living).

Either way, I am a bad, bad Muslim (am against all the hatin' and excessive obsession on skin coverage) and hope that I could be a better person to my fellow humankind. How does that sound? =D
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written by Century Patriot, December 31, 2007 22:39:24
Lets visualize what would be our reactions if we are perpetually victimized with our loved ones and friends being killed and maimed by an enemy who are armed to the teeth with tanks and aircrafts while we have only pee shooters. And worst still, the end to this atrocity is never in sight. In this situation is it any wonder if we think of the best way to hit back at the enemy with maximum casualties in mind, even at the cost of our own lives such as being ’suicide bombers’! Yes, irrespective whether the lives we take are of civilian’s bcos that is exactly what the enemy did to our people. This is exactly what the Palestinians are doing against the Zionist.Lets just forget about playing into the hands of the Zionists and all those craps. BTW, why did the Japanese came out with the concept of kamikaze during the war?

The unfortunate aspect of such happenings is that the atrocities perpetrated by the Zionists are never high lighted in all Medias while every incident of suicide bomber is made known throughout the world.

In this context, it is also very unfortunate that the aggrieved are Muslims which made the world perceived that Islam is violent. If religion is taken out of the equation, doesn’t it look more like RETALIATION by the aggrieved.

Likewise those suicide bombings in Iraq, Pakistan and other places, if religious background is taken out, don’t they resemble more about fools being manipulated by politicians for power rather then about religion!

My humble opinion is that religion, may it be Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism etc has always been one of the convenient tools of manipulation by those aspiring for power. Stigmatization and labeling by mind- control Medias are the surest way to create negative perception of any religion.

I am not a Muslim but GOD fearing
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written by Vineeth Menon, December 31, 2007 22:40:06
Excellent piece by RPK..cheers..

On somebodies question on Violence in Hinduism,It can be explained like this.
It again rolls down to interpretation as well.

In Bhagavad Gita "Lord Krishna emphasized to King Arjuna that his war is not between two enemies. It shall be a fight between dharma and adharma and dharma is bound to win. In the domain of God there is no place for adharma continuing for a long period of time"

Then, who defines what is adharma?

Bhagavad Gita also says "The Buddhi which brings understanding of proper work, of right and wrong action, fear and bravery, bondage and liberty, which allows proper regulation of the mind.It is by the Buddhi that one incorrectly distinguishes between Dharma and Adharma, between right and wrong action. "

So its the Buddhi (Sanskrit word for ‘intuitive intelligence’ or simply ‘higher mind’") which decides on What is Dharma & Adharma (The antonym of dharma is adharma meaning unnatural or immoral).

So, Violence is also prescribed in Hinduism in the name of Dharma.SIMILAR to Jihad(Jihad is directed against the devil's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy)

But as RPK said "good is bad and bad is good".

Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing a HINDRAF rally, we would be seeing a suicide bombing.
Because "adharma continuing for a long period of time"

Self realization is the ultimate key for peaceful existence..
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written by CIA, December 31, 2007 23:16:38
Soon the world will be divided into two..."either you are with us or you are against us":- (quote by G.Bush and Osama Bin Laden)..and there's no third choice.."i don't want to get involve". By the way during his lifetime (Prophet Muhammad) there are 26 wars and he participated in 18 of them.
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written by jiman96, December 31, 2007 23:21:11
Education Ministry should introduce a subject on comparative religion in schools. It opened my eyes and mind to the similarities in all religions rather than the differences. We all strive for the same ideals - peace, humility, kindness... etc.. when u understand this, you'll start understanding and be more tolerant.
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written by talk3talk4, December 31, 2007 23:21:46
From my little knowledge, I concur that all Abrahamic religions are violent. However they are also peaceful. So much so, most times their messages are contradictory. The following are my general perceptions:

Judaism followers are focussing on the traditions rather then the violent part of the Book as they are purportedly God's people hence they keep away from the rest of the world.

Christianity has shed of the violence and now adopt "make love not war" emphasis as espoused by JC.

Islam still holding on to the old testament and tambah lagi with the war stories of M and etc.

Not sure of the Jewish, but Christianity and Islam do obligate their followers to spread their religion to the rest of the world. Christianity spreads the Word by deeds and prayers whereas Islam spread their Word by .........FILL IN THE BLANKS......

Buddhism, in its pure form is not even allowed to kill an ant but not sure of those modified Buddhism.
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written by CIA, December 31, 2007 23:58:04
Are you very sure talk3talk4..Christianity has shed of the violence and now adopt "make love not war"...correct, correct, correct there are no war in Bosnia, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia accept 'making love by the Christian and the Jews'.YOU ARE TALKING NUTS AND YOU ARE DAMN BIAS.
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written by mimag2005, January 01, 2008 00:35:51

written by talk3talk4, December 31, 2007 | 23:21:46

From my little knowledge,....
-------------------------

Thats right having " little knowledge " is very, very dangerous... similar to budak2 main mercun !

Christianity spreads the Word by deeds and prayers whereas Islam spread their Word by ....FILL IN THE BLANKS......
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Why don't you fill in the BLANKS ????

WHY DON'T YOU ALSO MENTION WHAT TOOK PLACE AFTER CONSTANTINOPLE ENDORSED PAULINE CHRISTIANITY WHICH LASTED ABOUT 300 YEARS ... IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN ???

PLEASE BE FAIR.... CALL A SPADE A SPADE !
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written by Angela Ooi, January 01, 2008 00:44:32
Dear Marina and Raja Petra, here's wishing you a happy, fruitful and ISA-free year 08. RPK, you are so good, it's bad! This is rhe reason why though officially a Buddhist, I follow my conscience. I try to do good and abstain from bad.. mainly have that sense of decency and not worry about the semantics and all that hoo ha that go with religion
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written by salakkan, January 01, 2008 01:05:24
SELAMAT Tahun Baru, everyone!

There are always great things to look forward to.

Let's seek and find it. That's the joy and the reward.
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written by lokenpal, January 01, 2008 01:55:24
>>The problem is, only Muslims still follow what the Holy Books stipulate. People of the other religions deviate from their religious teachings and refuse to follow what their religions stipulate

RPK:
You view is respected but I disagree with the premise. Any person can be good with or without any religion.

Your view is based on a book supposedly the word of god; and that I believe lies the problem; as you would be claiming it to be true.

That is your opinion not a fact. Ones action determines ones goodness not ones believe!!
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written by ctm999, January 01, 2008 02:23:50
From what I have read of the above comments, is it safe to say that the Malaysia Muslim Authority is like the Pharisees of Jesus time (keeping of all details of the law but the hollow sham of keeping laws externally to gain merit before God, while breaking them inwardly. It was following the letter of the law but ignoring the spirit - by Melly)?
Is the Malaysia government trying to claim the Malay people for God just as God claim all Israelites to be His children? Since the Malay are neither Israelites or even Arabs for that matter, shouldn't the Malays like Lina Joy be given a choice to choose their own religion?

And dear CIA, I can't answer you about Bosnia but Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia is not about spreading religion but democracy (like the Vietnam and Korea war)
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written by temenggong, January 01, 2008 02:24:46
There is no question that the abrahamic religions the way the faithful understands it, has been violent, at best imperialistic, and at the other extreme, genocidal.

Sing nein kwai ler!!
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written by panca, January 01, 2008 02:25:54
To believers of religion(god)which is and will always be god believers (being god believers means god-fearing too but between what is rightful and not, does or does it not mean you can do anything even what these actions can be inhumane yet be called godly in the name of religion?

May I ask what is the difference between god and evil?

Aint it becoming an oxymoron phrase as far as believers and their inhumane actions are concerned, without wisdom or even lack of it, can be never, never be called as Universal. That is absolutely no substitute for a lesser value for Universal Goodness. The essence of wholesomeness is an excellent spiritual action that comes from a purified state of mind, not belief or tread blindly on a path that can lead to any harm at all.

Can we see that if religion taught goodness yet causes harm, then what are they there for? Do we need them in the first place, I mean harm?
(YM RPK is right that the christian and jews are bad followers of religion.)

You can talk about yournkingdom come but we have definitely failed endlessly dealing with wisdom and our mind, even basic wisdom is absent from the mind of many with religious piety, so to speak of religion of its values for Universality.
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written by panca, January 01, 2008 02:30:24
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL CONCERNED MALAYSIAN FOR MALAYSIA. TO ALL, YM RPK of course.
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written by Jhimsi, January 01, 2008 02:47:50
Dear RPK,
According to your logic, Good Muslims are Bad therefore Bad Muslims must be Good.

Then what about the Bad Muslims in UMNO ? Are they Good ? Hmmmm!@#$%&*? I'm confused.

Happy New Year, anyway.
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written by Wisdom above, January 01, 2008 03:25:04
-- Okay, let us look at what Prophet Muhammad and the Quran say. "Muhammad said he did not introduce a new religion". The Quran confirms this and talks about the " religion of Abraham, the same religion for the followers of Moses and Jesus". Now see what Mathew says:

"I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5.17,1smilies/cool.gif

1) Written Laws of the Old Testament = Deuteronomy, chapter 13, chapter 21 .

2) A real historical case study :- Stoning to death , judicial precedent of (1) above.

John 8, 3-11 "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law ,Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?"
= Prosecution Evidences proved beyond any reasonable doubt = " impurity,enmity, anger, selfishness, dissension, envy... etc.."

3) A simple Judicial expression " but to fulfill them " = the Laws applied here included :
" love,joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,faithfulness, gentleness,self-control ."

"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
.... "Neither do I condemn you; go your way. From now on, sin no more."

4) Presumption & understanding : My thousand apology if I use extracts confusingly...

written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 | 18:47:36
Dear ultraman, exactly, " the laws were abrogated ".

5) No, Islam is not violent. All religions are violent. The problem is," only Muslims still follow what the Holy Books stipulate". People of the other religions deviate from their religious teachings and "refuse to follow what their religions stipulate".

Para 1,2,3,4 above should explicitly explain para 5 . My thousand apology again if my comment caused more confusions and mental blocks .

6 ) Ecclesiastes = all is vanity, injustice & hopelessness of life, wisdom & folly compared, the inequalities of life, the excellence of wisdom, the whole duty of man.

Para 6 is good reading material, better and more powerful than " peaceful demonstrations ".
Remember all events happened yesterday and today were all illogical.
...
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written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 03:57:45
mimag,

How about the sermon on the mount by Jesus on Matt 19? Can you keep them? If your hands sin, cut it off. If your eyes sin, pluck it out. You don't need to sin outwardly but inward sin is enough to send you to hell. God does not grade the curve, sin is sin. The wages of sin is death. The laws of Moses is meant to show you your sin so that you realise you're in need of a saviour.

When you read the bible, please rightly divide the word. Apostle Paul's epitles are words from the resurrected Lord. Jesus's words were the time when He was still under the obligation of Judaism laws before He died and resurrected. When He had died and resurrected He had fulfilled the laws. When something is fulfilled, you are no more guilty even if you break it... the law of double jeorpady.

If you read the 4 gospels carefully, whenever Jesus brought out the 10 commandment, His purpose was to bring the person to the end of himself/herself so that they would know they were deeply needing a saviour to free from the bondage of sin. That's why those who realise they are sinful people accept this Saviour while the self-righteous people such as the pharasees who think they had kept the laws perfectly outwardly don't think they need a saviour. Anyway, if you want to continue the discussion, pls email me at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it . I don't want to jam the blog with Christian teaching which is unfair to other bloggers of other faiths.

Louis Chieng
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written by RasuahMinister, January 01, 2008 04:34:05
Selamat Tahun Baru.

2008 is a good year for Malaysia, mesti boleh.

May Allah memblesskan you all.
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written by monstercat, January 01, 2008 06:17:33
written by mimag2005, December 31, 2007 | 21:39:46
…..And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS !!

….. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, etc ………..

So My Fellow Christian Brothers and Sisters, Our Saviour Jesus the Messiah has spoken CLEARLY HOW TO GAIN SALVATION !!!!
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Yes, mimag2005, we try our very best to keep the commandments. We refrain with all our heart from murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness etc. Those are good teachings, don't you agree? We are all sinners including you. By repenting and asking for forgiveness for sinning (knowingly or unknowingly), we can gain salvation.

You seemed to know very well the teaching of Christ. Perhaps you can share with us what punishments Jesus prescribed on those who did not keep the commandments? I'm not very good with the chapters and verses, keep on forgetting.

Cheers.
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written by miwaki, January 01, 2008 07:16:31
In short,try to be bad by not following your holy book.Who knows,as a result,you end up in heaven !
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written by Xpax, January 01, 2008 07:55:46
Dumb Dumb mimag2005, can you show me which part of this RPK article did mention about Pauline Christianity?
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written by ahmadbadrul40, January 01, 2008 08:25:37
There is no GOD in this world. When we die, we won't become we. We won't be able to control. We won't be able to stop it. We won't even realise it. We have to accept it.

The reason people created religion, is because people know that one day we are all going to die. So they created a religion to console our fear. To reduce our fear to a minimum so that we can continue to live a normal life.

But we have to accept, until now, there are no scientific evidence that any of us is going to heaven or hell. Young people in the west are already accepting it as a fact. Less and less young people in the west are associated with any religions.

LIFE IS SHORT. ENJOY YOUR LIFE TO THE FULLEST.
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written by DontPlayGod, January 01, 2008 09:00:52
alternatif2007 wrote:

"Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, instructed to use gentle ways and told that harshness and violence do not help in achieving things. Another saying narrated by Ayesha (wife of the Prophet) says that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said:

“God is kind, and likes kindness; for kindness, God rewards what He never gives due to violence or through any other means.”

This statement of the Prophet is recorded in the Sahih of Muslim in which it is further reported that the Prophet said to Ayesha: “Be kind and avoid violence and indecency. Kindness makes a situation best and unkindness makes it worst.”

What is going on in the Islamic world to-day is directly opposite to what you wrote.
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written by Semut Jantan, January 01, 2008 09:20:10
All,

You get what you pay for. The saying goes.
You have to be sincere in worshipping God, then the outcome of keeping the 10 precepts aforementioned will gain you a seat in heaven. Blowing up one's body and causes harm unto others (#6) disqualifies oneself from heaven. By the way, heaven is not a high-class brothel. If so, I pity those women up there, 72 of them serving one misguided man. I would advise my sisters against this notion of heaven-bound.
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written by lokenpal, January 01, 2008 09:34:19
Sorry, but I think most of the comments on GOD are mere fiction of ones imagination. There are no supporting evidences when quoting from a so called holy book. Being good and doing good is not based on some religious doctrine. It’s part of being human and a necessity for living in a civil society.
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written by Counterpointer, January 01, 2008 10:21:38
Confused? You should be!
--------------------------
No matter how anyone would want to twist the logic of it all about religion and my relatively shallow understanding of religion, one thing though is perfectly clear to me; those muslims massacring and blowing up innocent people and getting away scot free, stealing the public blind, threatening other races by raising the keris, making empty election promises and never ever serious of fulfilling them, condescending the minority races, making an opponent gay just for his own political survival, f*cking up the judiciary again for political survival, waterconnoning and teargassing peaceful ralliers, etc.etc. can never ever in any twisted logic be justified as being good muslims.
smilies/wink.gif
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written by mei yen, January 01, 2008 10:44:15
Asian minds have been boxed in for too long. We take what our elders tell us and accept them as God's truth. Try thinking out of the box! It's reverse psychology. Good is bad and bad is good. Remember??
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written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 11:00:58
mimag,

I've asked you to email me personally should you intend to discuss further right? Correction, the part about eyes plucking and chopping of hands found in Mark 9:43. Muslim only study the book of Matthew, not any other book of the 4 gospels do you?

Thanks for your explanation about Jonah. Jonah was 3 days, 3 nights in the belly of Jonah, you are right. But there's already discrepancy to that of what Jesus said. What was recorded is that Jesus died on Fri and resurrected on Sun after the Jewish Sabbath on Sat. So, Jesus didn't disapper for 3 nights, it was only 2 nights. How do you explain that? If you were crucified and did not die, that's a miracle, but if you died and resurrectied, that's a greater miracle and victory, no?

There are plenty of prophecies such as from Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel that prophesied the death and resurrection of the Messiah. Even the Levitical law of Sacrifices (your Haj/Qurban) is pointing toward a Christ who will be slaughtered as sacrifise for atonement. I suggest you study the Pauline epistles as well, not just the Matt gospel. Christianity is a religion of love because there's no more caste system when we know that no one is more righteous than another, we're all standing on ground zero where we were all sinners saved by grace. To be saved by your own works via the law is a heavy burden my friend, you are more likely living in guilt and condemnation as we know every now and then we stumble. Or another possibility is that you will be like the Pharasees who think they are more righteous than others because they have observed some laws outwardly while this joker over there didn't.

God didn't want his children to be in such burden. That's why in Matthew 11, Jesus said 28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 11:05:23
hehe..d good thing thing dats appenin is religion is being wiped out..oh yes.. smilies/shocked.gif..(umm ow many negatives do i get for telling the truth eh? smilies/wink.gif )..happy new year everybody smilies/smiley.gif
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written by wongnoball, January 01, 2008 11:06:16
Doubt is the beginning of wisdom.
Deep doubts, deep wisdom; small doubts, little wisdom. smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 11:07:59
hei cruz,
appy new year mate..now where is your poison pen bridage eh?..d hindutva antijihadist?long time no see him..whats he upto aah?another k0kophoney article regarding the virtues of shabbat,sickularism eh smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 11:12:55
Pete,

You are right about religion teaches violence. God's laws are very demanding and cruel. That's because God is God, He's holy and have such a high standard. Anyone who thinks He/She can reach up to God's standard is a liar. The more you try to reach God the more bitter you become. That's why Christianity is about God reached out to human being, then we have the power to do His will and do good.
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written by wongnoball, January 01, 2008 11:48:58
Dear Yen Moy,

I think it is more appropriate to call God of Fortune as GOD of all GODS.
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written by bexe, January 01, 2008 11:49:47
All Abrahamic religion teach violence. They perform atrocities in the name of god. The danger is when they perpetrate these atrocities, they believe that god is on their side. The scriptures are all product of good spin. Beats me how so many people fall to the spin.
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written by Wisdom above, January 01, 2008 12:11:59
It is good that we have here "A Comparative study on the Religion of Abraham ". Very eye opening and I perceived that all are full of knowledge.

a) ... Muhammad said he did not introduce a new religion. The Quran confirms this and talks about "the religion of Abraham, the same religion for the followers of Moses and Jesus"...

b) ... That is what Moses and Jesus taught us if you go by the correct teachings of Judaism and Christianity. And Judaism, Christianity and Islam are " not new religions " but "the religion of Abraham "...

c) ... Of course, this was "practiced many generations ago " during the time of the Islamic conquest and is " not quite the practice today" . But what many do not know is that this is not an Islamic thing but is what the " religions before Islam stipulated " and " this has never been abrogated " from the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians or Muslims. In other words, it is " still lawful " to this very day if you want to do it.

d) ... The problem is, " only Muslims still follow what the Holy Books stipulate ". People of the " other religions deviate" from their religious teachings and " refuse to follow " what their religions stipulate.

e) ... The "only crime " that Muslims have committed is that they are good Muslims.

f) ... But the Quran is only a continuation of Abraham's teachings which is the same teachings for the Jews and Christians.

g) .... "they do not follow what their religion teaches them "... ( This is the paradox ).

Presumption & understanding : My thousand apology if I use extracts confusingly...

" written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 | 18:47:36 "
Dear ultraman, exactly, " the laws were abrogated ".

Now do we all understand what our most Honorable Raja Petra implied when he said " the Laws were abrogated " ?

The Codified Written Laws of the Old Testament " were abrogated " in :

"I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but ' to fulfill them ' . Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, ' till all be fulfilled' " (Matthew 5.17,1smilies/cool.gif

" Why are you troubled, and why do questionings arise in your hearts ? "

If your heart is not troubled , I am glad for you.

If you are confused, my thousand apology.

Remember events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.
...

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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 12:25:47
You are right about religion teaches violence. God's laws are very demanding and cruel. That's because God is God, He's holy and have such a high standard. Anyone who thinks He/She can reach up to God's standard is a liar. The more you try to reach God the more bitter you become
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alo cosmic,r u sufferin frm hangover ah?what u have just posted is the biggest bullsh1t..i bet u never ever made an effort 2 discover truth..just baca here n there,and ur mind unterprets dis and dat according 2 ur whims n fancies
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 12:28:34
there is a "thing' called spiritual dynamics..and it can be dicovered n exprerinced!!regarding gods and angels r aah..they r like wakil rakyats le..but now the terrestial dynamics dah tukor ..hehe..go ahead and pooh2 dis comment of mine..it doesnt matter..hahaha... smilies/grin.gif
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written by temenggong, January 01, 2008 12:39:01
"He was swallowed by a whale and remain in its belly for 3 days & nights. "

Please, there are no whales in the Dead Sea or Red Sea. Thats a whale of a story!
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written by TWOG, January 01, 2008 12:40:52
/// written by mikewang, December 31, 2007 | 20:53:19
Interpretation of the word of God is important.
You can read the WORD metaphorically or you can read them figuratively. ///

mikewang - that is exactly what the problem with religions is. Interpretation. Who is to do the interpretation? Whose interpretation is correct? Whose is the official version? Who is speaking for god?

Are the Spanish Inquisitors correct interpretation? Are the Talibans correct? The Al Qaeda?

All the atrocities in the world committed in the name of religion have been whitewashed or excused because, "it is not religion, but those who interprete them wrongly."
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written by Wisdom above, January 01, 2008 12:52:29
written by SUV, January 01, 2008 | 12:33:12

"... the supreme laws and organize life,society based on it. "

Do have great views . Care to explained in details on what you expressed above.
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 12:56:44
who r the interpretars?ordinary joe publics le smilies/cool.gif
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 13:04:06
It wont b 'easy' interprating the Holy Quran... becos 1.THE REVELATIONS r frm spritual dimension 2.the revelations r frm the HIGHEST LEVEL,THE SUPRAMENTAL LEVEL.
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written by CIA, January 01, 2008 13:10:48
Written by ctm999,

‘And dear CIA, I can't answer you about Bosnia but Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia is not about spreading religion but democracy (like the Vietnam and Korea war)’

What are you talking about ctm999, G.W.Bush made a declaration in 2001, before their preemptive attack on Afghanistan and later with Iraq (2003) that it’s a ‘crusade war against the Muslim’. Beside for their souls (Muslims), the Christian and Jews are interested in dominating and control the ‘Muslim Nations Oil’ and it’s got nothing to do with democracy.
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Bush said God told him to invade Iraq, Arab leaders say.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/10/07/MNGNVF3SFM1.DTL

"President Bush was saying that, 'Having been imbued with a message of God to free the people of Afghanistan and then Iraq, I have a calling now to give the Palestinians a state of their own and their freedom, to give Israel security and bring peace to the Middle East,' " Shaath told The Chronicle, confirming the accuracy of the BBC report.
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Bush vows to rid the world of 'evil-doers'
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.bush.terrorism/

Bush made the same point during his remarks at the White House. "This crusade, this war on terrorism is gonna take awhile. And the American people must be patient. I'm gonna be patient," Bush said.


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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 13:58:02
blue sky is frm the overmind world..woohoo!! smilies/grin.gif..oh o... which blue sky?U2's bullet the blue sky? smilies/cool.gif

Actually aah we can c it 2day,right b4 our eyes,the pressures to establish a 'purer' form equality..c lah the desire to b more nature concious,to protect the envionment,to help the downtrodden regardless of race or religion..sepaking those rogues who violates laws of justice...aah the pressure is there..hehe
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 14:00:35
anti capitaslim is another indication..kesianlah those cukang cakings..siki hari..gerenti depa misti kena terajang.. smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 14:05:06
KING: So why Tahiti?

BRANDO: I went to Tahiti where they don't give a damn who you are. The Tahitians are marvelously free. First of all it's a classless society and if you put on airs they just tease the life out of you and...

KING: So, ego don't work there.

BRANDO: What?

KING: Ego don't work there.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/02/lklw.00.html

smilies/cool.gif
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written by bananachinese, January 01, 2008 14:05:46
Congratulations, RPK!

You've got a nice comparative religion discussion started here. Turning the mind's eye towards the light is the only way for a human being to justify his/her existence in this world.

This goes way further to promote peace rather than just sub-contracting to political leaders to do the talk for us.

Dear commentators,

Whilst it is fantastic we vent out thoughts and ideals here, may I suggest to walk our talk. It's not impossible for us to make effort to infect more people to discuss difficult subjects like this. Opening up mouths leads to opening up minds and can do wonders to soften harden hearts. Only when the 'untouched' rakyat are given the fruits for thoughts that we can hope to see credible politicians arise from this untouched rakyat's demand. (untouched= no internet, no interest in national issues, no wish to engage, dunno?)

I already have started to do what I can. I want to make a difference. No matter how small or insignificant it may seem to others.
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written by SUV, January 01, 2008 14:12:32
there is oso the golden sky..hehe smilies/shocked.gif
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written by Xerxes, January 01, 2008 14:52:57
Shucks Pete, I AM confused!!!

Thankfully I am not a follower of Judaism, Christianity or Islam. I am just a good old Taoist and even then I find some of the practices confusing but at least we are quite liberal in our beliefs and practices so we can adjust.

But I can understand the dilemma of a Christian if they want to be "good". They will have to do "bad" things. Ditto for a Jew. Now I understand why Muslims do the things they do. They just wants to be "good" Muslims. But I think the root of it all is that some of these teachings were made thousands of years ago when the societal norms and tolerance threshold were very different. I am no religious expert and would be the last person to lay any claims to being right about any religious arguments. But I believe that the various religious teaching as spelled out in the great Books (I have read the New Testament, The Talmud and the translated version of the Quran), while mostly preaching universal truths that will stand the test of time, there are also teachings that were a reflection of a society that exist two thousand years ago and may not be relevant anymore today.
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written by Dogboy, January 01, 2008 15:11:22
Christians were taught that if you get slapped the cheek to turn the other cheek
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written by Dogboy, January 01, 2008 15:13:29
Following any followings which preahces violence cannot be right. You are just good at being bad and if you do not follow the preachings, you are good at being good, in my opinion
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written by Toyolbuster, January 01, 2008 16:45:28
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Pete, I am a bit confused here, please explain further. The way I understand from reading the above, is that, those who try to convert you or to entice you to serve other Gods other than your own shall be punished accordingly as an Apostate. Have I missed out the part where a person having left to serve other God other than his own should also be punished as such. Please enlighten me further. Thank you.
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written by non conformist, January 01, 2008 17:16:31
Sir RPK,

I have always enjoyed your thoughts.

This time, you display a FUNDAMENTAL weakness in your understanding of Christianity...

There is a vast different between God's dealing with the Israel in the OT and the Church of Jesus Christ in the NT.
Israel was an EARTHLY theocratic nation... thus must need to fight literal wars with various nations that are hostile against Israel.

Jesus Christ came and established the kingdom of HEAVEN... and announced the ABOLITION of the earthly theocratic nation of Israel. In AD 70, Israel was once for all obliterated from the face of the earth - it has served its temporal purpose of paving the way for the promised Messiah to come to established the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven. Earthly Israel was a temporal arrangement. Modern Israel has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the Israel of the OT.

You must have read this plain and categorical statement from Jesus' own mouth:
John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." The earthly kingdom of Israel in the OT was entirely of this world.

Paul, an apostle of Christ said this, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.


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written by non conformist, January 01, 2008 17:31:08
written by Jhimsi, December 31, 2007 | 21:28:45
Dear RPK and all,

I strongly recommend you read the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament.
It is a refreshing book.

Just remember the conclusion, if you cannot remember anything:

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN - Fear God, and keep his commandments. When a man does this, there isn't the slightest vanity, or 'meaninglessness.'

sing lau
penang
------
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written by monstercat, January 01, 2008 17:48:13
mimag2005, spare me the commandments please. God so love the chosen race that He gave them whatever they asked for including a king. God helped them win wars. The violent teachings were also historical accounts of the chosen race. And Jesus did say if your hand sin, it is better of cut it and throw into fire than to infect the whole body, thus your whole body get thrown into fire. So if your eyes leered, ogled at a beautiful sexy woman (doesn't have to be skimpily dressed to be sexy), which cause your mind to think porno smilies/grin.gif it's better to gouge out your eyes throw them into fire than to let them infect your mind and whole body. Of course cannot dig out your brain for having dirty thoughts and throw them into fire lah, don't be ridiculous if you are going to suggest that. You see these are Jesus Christ's teachings but did you read in any part of such acts being carried out?????

And yes, Christians are taught to offer the other cheek when slapped on one cheek. That's why they refrained from causing chaos or attacking anyone in hordes when a Osama bin Laden's face was plastered on a Jesus Christ picture in Australia as art.
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written by Saint, January 01, 2008 17:51:55
Dear Jews, Christian and Muslim friends, you can argue till the cow comes home,
But the truth is; all the three of you have made, the One God of Abraham into 3 different Gods,
Each saying his God is “The Only God”,
And you have spread this animosity around the globe from Israel and Arabia.
This is your greatest weakness, and you can never solve this argument
Until you wipe each other out, in the name of God.
As for the Indian religions, we have nine different Gods / philosophies
(Sivaniam, Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Hinduism itself is 5 different religions),
Yet we have made all these nine different Gods into “One God Head”,
We respect each other, go to each others temple, and even pray in these temples.
We do not condemn even if one of us goes into a Taoist / Chinese temple
For we all have understood that there is only One God and each sees it differently.
This is the greatness of our civilization and culture;
So at the end of the day, it is not what God you believe in,
But how much freedom you have and how much respect you give your neighbors
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written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 18:01:28
bexe and SUV,

I advise you to research before you give any comment. I was a Muslim convert and now a born again Christian. I know about abrahamic religions and I know what I'm talking about. There's no point explaining to you lots because you're dogmatic and one-sided. Allah commanded you to read, so I advise you the same. God bless you.
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written by temanmu, January 01, 2008 18:47:44
So a SECULAR system is the best of bad alternatives!

Each follows your own religion but when it involves society or a person of another faith, the secular system takes over.

When a govt is run like a religious organisation, resentment will result!
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written by zhanyiyi, January 01, 2008 19:07:57
A very truthful and hurtful article. But where do all these confusion lead us to? You still have to face Judgment Day ( This is truth from God). How does He judge you? To each his own? And did He specify a set of golden rules? ( the 10 commandments, the 5 times daily prayers, etc ?).
I wish someone neutral ( like RPK ) would compile the latest set of rules and call for a UN referendum and have these mandated as universal rules from the Holy Books from God.
Now as we are becoming more and more "civilized" can we for once and for perpetuity renounce violence and killing as a means of solving economic, cultural, ethnic and religious problems? Can we see the light at the end of the tunnel or are we still grooping in the dark?
Can somebody compile the ULTIMATE HOLY BOOK from the OT, NT and the Koran likely candidate RPK and his beloved wife),but ensuring blue for words from the prophets, red for instructions from God and of course black from the printers' ink.
RPK has been discussing these issues in his block for the umpteenth times and the rolling stone is gathering more moss. God must be laughing it up in 7th heaven because he is most merciful and compassionate.
As for me I make no distinction between a good Jew, a good Christian, and a good Muslim. With my God-given conscience ( merciful and compassionate) I would definitely be able to distinguish the wheat from the chaff. RPK you belong to the former, and a very happy new year to you and your family. May God strengthen you with knowledge even if you have to go to China!!

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written by Wisdom above, January 02, 2008 01:31:36
1)... But while " Muslims follow to the letter, and to the spirit, what they are taught ", the Jews and Christians are " deviants who do not comply " to what their religion teaches them.

2)... No, Islam is not violent. All religions are violent. The problem is, " only Muslims still follow what the Holy Books stipulate". People of the " other religions deviate " from their religious teachings and " refuse to follow what their religions stipulate ".

3)... Matthew, just like the Quran, confirms that the teachings and laws of the Prophets before that are to be upheld. " None have been abolished or abrogated ".... It is a " Jewish-Christian law " that Islam 'borrowed'. Remember, Islam is not a new religion but the religion of Abraham, which is also the religion of Moses and Jesus.

4) .... "they do not follow what their religion teaches them "...

( This is the paradox , and it continues to confuse many people who are full of knowledge.
Para 6 (a) (b) (c) (d) below should explain the paradox of Paragraph 4 here. )

5) ... " they " here refer to Jews and Christians. See para 1 above.

6) ... written by ultraman, December 31, 2007 | 18:40:18

When "Jesus died on the cross " for us and " resurrected", he became the " life giving spirit".

a) " The old law is buried ". javascript:void(0);cool

( Codified Written Laws of the Old Testament still existed to explain the Code of behavior. " Only " the Criminal Penal provisions for " harsh punishments " have been abolished or abrogated . Example, Law of Sin and Death. )

b) After that, Christians " no longer follow " that law. ( Criminal Penal Provisions of the Written Laws of the Old Testament )

c) We would " now follow " the " law of the Spirit of life " .

d) " No longer are we governed " by the laws of the old testaments. javascript:void(0);smile

( Atonement for all, saved by the Grace of God ).
Para 6 (a) (b) (c) (d) should explain the paradox of Paragraph 4 above.


7) " written by Raja Petra, December 31, 2007 | 18:47:36 "

Dear ultraman, exactly, " the laws were abrogated ".

Para 7 here confirmed and concurred with para 6 (a) above.


smilies/cool.gif .. As for the Jews , I will wait for answers from this " God chosen people " to explain themselves.
( who like to shed some lights ? )


9) " Muslims follow to the letter, and to the spirit, what they are taught " .

But what many do not know is that this is " not an Islamic thing " but is what the " religions before Islam stipulated " and this has " never been abrogated from the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians or Muslims". In other words, it is still lawful to this very day if you want to do it.

... ( For the Muslims, Codified Penal provisions for harsh punishments " from the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians or Muslims" of the " religion of Abraham " were obeyed to the last letter .)

" No, it is not that Muslims are violent by nature.
Many are actually very nice people ...
And it is also not Islam that is at fault.
Sure, I know what the Islam-phobics are now going to say. Islam is a violent religion. Islam teaches violence. The Quran teaches Muslims to become violent. And so on and so forth.
You are actually only partly correct. "

Remember, all events that happened yesterday and today are illogical.

Ecclesiastes = all is vanity, injustice & hopelessness of life, wisdom & folly compared, the inequalities of life, the excellence of wisdom, the whole duty of man.
The book is good reading material, better and more powerful than " peaceful demonstrations ".

If the above is still confusing, my thousand apology. Happy New Year to all.

....
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written by Fart Fart Wah, January 02, 2008 02:15:29
I was a faithful Muslim up to the moment I witnessed the killing of my teacher. That moment heavily traumatized me and I began to dive deeply into the Islamic texts to figure out what is the nature of G-d I have been worshiping

Wafa Sultan

RPK this is enough to explain why some Muslims are fanatics and are blind not to see the ..truth of things....sorry not blind but moronly allow themselves to be led like cows and goats to the kandaang..without using theri brains..by MUFTIs, imams and so called Allah inspired teachers..

Muslim women will forever be ..stepped upon by Muslim men as long as they just lie down and accept it..
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written by Sutha, January 02, 2008 02:36:17

For the people who do not take bath daily (due to lack of water), they circumcise for hygiene reason. They also use perfume (attar) to beat their body odour. It could have been a identity system among tribes to differentiate "our people" from "your people" in a very secretive way.

If it was god's instruction for the removal of the foreskin, god might as well have not made the foreskin in the first place.
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written by Anak Desa, January 02, 2008 03:01:57
Our heart felt condolences to Zardar saheb and his family on the assasination of Benazir Bhutto. May her soul lies in peace.....
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written by mimag2005, January 02, 2008 08:48:03

A very good morning and " An Enlightening New Year ",

To Distinguish and Learned Bloggers WORLDWIDE !

Would any of you care to offer an APPROPRIATE CANDIDATE FOR A " PROPHET " that fits " ALL 3 " PROPHECIES as mentioned in :

John Ch 1 : 19/21, 25
Deut Ch 18 : 18/19
Isaiah Ch 29 : 12


How about Brother Cosmic, what about you ?....."I KNOW ABOUT ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT "

.....
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written by mimag2005, January 02, 2008 10:28:31


written by ultraman, December 31, 2007 | 18:40:18

RPK,
You ae right in your intepretation of Deutoronomy. But those were from the old testaments. It was true then before Jesus came to die for us.
When Jesus died on the cross for us and resuurected, he became the life giving spirit.The old law is buried. After that Christians no longer follow that law. We would now follow the law of the Spirit of life. No longer are we governed by the laws of the old testaments. Nomore killing in the name of God .

No longer do we need to die for God because God himself died for us. Votes: 75
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear LEARNED Ultraman AND THE 75 LEARNED 'SUPPORT' VOTERS....

... DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ?????.....

GOD... THE ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD, ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE, INDIVISIBLE, UNIQUE...
.............." AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM " ............

.....
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written by mimag2005, January 02, 2008 10:46:26
written by ultraman, December 31, 2007 | 18:40:18

RPK,
You ae right in your intepretation of Deutoronomy. But those were from the old testaments. It was true then before Jesus came to die for us.
When Jesus died on the cross for us and resuurected, he became the life giving spirit.The old law is buried. After that Christians no longer follow that law. We would now follow the law of the Spirit of life. No longer are we governed by the laws of the old testaments. Nomore killing in the name of God .

No longer do we need to die for God because God himself died for us. Votes: 75
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear LEARNED Ultraman AND THE 75 LEARNED 'SUPPORT' VOTERS....

... DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ?????.....

"GOD... THE ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD, CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND EARTH AND...
.... EVERYTHING ABOVE, BELOW, ON, WITHIN, CREATOR OF YOU AND ME .....



" GOD... HE IS ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE, INDIVISIBLE, UNIQUE "...

.............." AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM " ............


.......
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written by mimag2005, January 02, 2008 11:17:07
I WILL UP THE TEMPO !

... IF ANY OF YOU, THE DISTINGUISHED...THE LEARNED... THE MASTERS... THE DOCTORS OF
DIVINITY OF ANY CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION...CAN SHOW AND PROOF THE FOLLOWING IN THE ORIGINAL JESUS
GOSPEL WHERE......

...... JESUS SPOKE IN AN " UNEQUIVOCAL " MANNER... " I AM GOD AND YOU MUST PRAY TO ME " .....

IF ANY OF YOU CAN PROVIDE THIS PROOF.. I CONFIRM THAT MY FAMILY OF SEVEN INCLUDING MYSELF WILL IMMEDIATELY WITHOUT RESERVATION, CONVERT TO THAT PARTICULAR DENOMINATION.


John Ch4 : 24 ( Worship God in spirit )

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
...................................................................................


When " TRUTH " surface... " FALSEHOOD " will crumble !!!!


..........
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written by glock17, January 02, 2008 11:38:04
Dear Pete...your openeing of tis article is hilarious but nevertheless true. However, what said in yur articles has been known to many about those lucky 'ol Syed's and some of the camel ass cleaners ..only you got the brain and brawn to put it into writing. Bravo.

Actually, the problem with today fanatics lies upon by their narrow minded ethno-centric nationalism. This buggers will used whatever justification to fight violent with violent.

Its the prelude on how religious conflicts are born, tis extreme angry people whom have lived in harsh and unforgiving desert conditions for centuries, starts applying scriptures which are no longer relevent in today modern world to propagate and justify violence upon their viewed enemies, when they are abused,humilated or taken advantaged by the outsiders.

Its sad, but again...violent breed more violents. Hopefully but surely..many will one day wake up and voice up that the world does not need more violence to dictate humanity.

Glock
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written by xcuseme, January 02, 2008 13:57:49
Tks for a nice piece RPK.

Everyone who has read can quote and interpret it to support their cause. So RPK pointed out a pertinent fact in saying that "because the west controls the media, they make it appear ...."

For personal gains a sentence can be posited as write or wrong, true or false... is just a matter of presenting it at the right timing at the right crowd.

But I just want to ask this - Who wrote all the holy books? Who is god?

The person or persons who purportedly pen the Holy Books is always someone close to the preacher. But do we know for a fact that what was documented is what was really said or does it come with an interpretation from the documenter based on his personal views affected by his experience?

Bertrand Russell has this to say: "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."

Of course I am not suggesting the documenter is stupid - all I am saying is - is it accurate? is it real? Why was it written? What purpose does it plan to serve? Have we taken into consideration the situation of that time the books are written?

Also - after so many thousand years - is it applicable for now?



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written by AO Musa, January 02, 2008 15:23:07
Dear RPK,

This is truly an excellent master piece and mind blowing for those who want to accept it. However, from the majority of the comments I see here they are against it.

Let me shed some light here. Religion is guidance for those who want to use it. Once you use it, it is depends on how you interpreting it. Communism is against religions, but they have their own rules and laws. It’s also stated in Communist law that killings are allowed for those deviant from their principles. This shows no matter what Religion or Ideology that you took there is violence in that. You can’t run from it.

Islam teaches us from how to sit in the toilet till how to sit on throne. But again, this depends on how you interpreting it. Islam teaches us to love your neighbours no matter what religion they are same as how Jesus teaches Christians to love their neighbours. But Islam also teaches us not to stand and look if there is an injustice. We must fight to against injustice and that’s what we are fighting till today.

Russia conquered her neighbouring country in the name of Communism. British conquered ½ of the world in the name of democracy and the Queen. But when these countries fought back for their liberty and freedom, they were addressed as terrorist. How do you think this people want to have their freedoms if they don’t use violence? Even with Mahatma Ghandi around, India is still need violence to achieve their independence. Remember the Subash Chandra Bose guy? Why do you think the Buddhist monk are marching and fighting with the military in Myanmar? Don’t the Buddhism promoting peace? The answer is, when there is a injustice all religions are allowing so call ‘violence’!
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written by tcng, January 03, 2008 10:58:49
Religions make good men/women do evil things because they believe what they are doing are good in the eye of GOD. The more dogmatic the religions and the believers are, the more 'evil' will their action be.
i.e Reglions with Holy Scriptures (Christian, Islam and Jews) did more evil things to humankind/human right.
On the other hand, Buddhism/Taoism/confusionism are philisophies of life, strictly speaking are not Religion. The believers of these religion did less evil things to mankind, at least not in the name of their religion. Don't get me wrong, I am Agnostic and do not subscribe to any organised/or un-organised religion..
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written by tcng, January 03, 2008 11:09:52
Dear xcuseme

May be you would like to take a look at these two books. It has some answers to some of your questions...

Is Christianity True?: A Critical Re-examination of the Evidence (Hardcover)
by Michael Arnheim


http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQprZ1392733QQtgZinfo


2000 Years of Disbelief: Famous People With the Courage to Doubt (Hardcover)
by James A. Haught (Author) "Intelligent, educated people tend to doubt the supernatural..."


http://www.amazon.com/2000-Years-Disbelief-Famous-Courage/dp/1573920673

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written by Tenno, January 03, 2008 11:50:09
hihihi...spot on.
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written by tcng, January 03, 2008 11:59:26
>

FYI... in ancient China, married women who has sexual affair with another man (married or otherwise) may be drowned together (in 'Pig-Cage'). From what I read, if the female is NOT married, she would be shamed but she and the man would not be drowned. The reason is simple.. married women become a property of the man , thus can not be 'shared'. In any case, such practice has been long been stopped in China villages. They evolve/change with 'civilization' and it is they are able to change because Chinese do not have any Holy Scripture like Islam. Conclusion : Holy scriptures cause more hamr than good to humankind. Take note that Chinese culture (not just in Mainland) do not criminalise homo-sexual or even anal-sex , though they do not condone such act (in fact despise such act). On the other hand, Christianinity and Islam may send these people to jail. Last year, Singapore parliment de-criminalised oral and anal sex between man & woman. But between two man, it is still a crime.
All these come from British law and bible........ To me, whatever two consensus adult men wish to do in private , behind closed door, is none of my concern. They can suck each other cocks or screw each other *******.. does not bother me and does not affect the society..
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written by CIA, January 03, 2008 14:24:31
Written by xcuseme:-

“Have we taken into consideration the situation of that time the books are written?
Also - after so many thousand years - is it applicable for now?”
------------------------------------------------------

The situation of that time the books are written?

All religions (included atheists) that we have today are more than 1428 years old…Only presently a new pseudo religion which they call the “NEW AGE SPIRITUALITY” been introduced by the ‘New World Order’ neo conservative …The bustard G.W.BUSH and ‘The Neo Conservative Gang’.

“NEW AGE SPIRITUALITY”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/newage.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------
After so many thousand years - is it applicable for now?

My answer it’s just like Sexual reproduction.
From a single man (Adam - human being) and then became couple. By today human population are 6.6 billions and without missed the men put their ‘little John’ into their women ‘Pink canal’ for Sexual reproduction. Only lately, contemporary man and women can have a baby by no longer putting their ‘little John’ into the ‘Pink canal’. A Modern Science Discovery, A Venture, An Exploration, An Experimentation (R&D)…A Great Revolution of ‘pseudo post human’ by an anti-god scientists and sponsored by their ‘New Age’ Pseudo Religion Master (Lucifer).

On Becoming Post human
http://www.maxmore.com/becoming.htm

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written by decapod, January 03, 2008 14:39:17
Deuteronomy 5:2-3
[The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.]

#1 The covenant was made in a particular land, with a particular group of people of particular situation, at a particular point in time.

#2 The covenant can be classified into a law of ceremonies and sacrifices, a moral law of conduct, a law of civil codes and a law governing health.

Matthew 5:17-18
["Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.]

#1 Jesus mentioned that he came to fulfill and accomplish the Law of the Prophets.

#2 Jesus's death on the cross is to fulfill the law of ceremonies and sacrifices on behalf, not to abrogate.

Matthew 22:36-39
["Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.']

#1 The moral law of conduct is still being teached, not abrogated.

Matthew 27:1-2
[Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death. They bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate, the governor.]

#1 The law of civil codes, pertinent to biblical Israel being a self-governing nation, was invalid when the Romans took over, again not abrogated.

John 3:16
["For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.]

#1 Capital punishment, such as stoning to death, is in a suspense mode, giving all men the time and oppotunity to accept Jesus's death on their behalf.

Mark 7:18-19
["Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."]
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written by SUV, January 03, 2008 15:07:55
eh,saya ada dengar aah,raba raba pokok tua pun blh kasi nombor ekor.. smilies/grin.gif
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highly evolved personalities speak with spritual conviction..Vivekananda famous saying "daridra narayan"(meaning the pariah ,the untouchables,r also divine)..many still think Vivekananda said becos Vivekananda was extremely sensitive to d plight of the downtrodden..but actually aah its a tremendous spritual realistaion/truth/reality..brahmanic nirvana(or conciousness)..hehe..Nabi Muhammad(SAW) without any shadow of a doubt realised dat oso..dats why le Nabi freed Bilal and told him to laung the azan..waah!!
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written by mimag2005, January 03, 2008 16:14:22
Dear decapod,

Would you care to expound on this verse....

John Ch4 : 24 ( Worship God in spirit )

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
...................................................................................



..........
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written by Wisdom above, January 03, 2008 20:00:30
... written by decapod, January 03, 2008 | 14:39:17
Deuteronomy 5:2-3
[The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, " but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive " .]
...
You are full of knowledge. Very analytical exposition.

" Aolished and Abrogated " connotes negative application, a general one way perception & inactive explanatory notes. More explanatory notes provided below , by "written by decapod, January 03, 2008 | 14:39:17 " are positive in presentation.

All are correct as it edify , pacify and bring about a harmonious revelation of the " Spirit of Life ".

a).. fulfill and accomplish the Law of the Prophets

b).. fulfill the law of ceremonies and sacrifices on behalf, not to abrogate.

c).. The moral law of conduct is still being teached, not abrogated.

d) .. The law of civil codes, pertinent to biblical Israel being a self-governing nation, was invalid when the Romans took over, again not abrogated.

e).. " whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life " .

f).. Capital punishment, such as stoning to death, is in a " suspense mode " , giving all men the time and oppotunity to accept Jesus's death on their behalf.

The positive outlook of the above is summaried by : -

g) ' There is therefore " no condemnation " for those who are in Christ Jesus.

h) For the " Law of the Spirit of Life " in Christ Jesus has set me free from the " Law of Sin and Death ".. "

The extremelt confusing Legal issue here is this :-

The Penal provisions for punishments belong to who ?

a) " Bless those who persecute you ; bless and do not curse them ..... "

b) " Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of ........ "

c) " Do not be overcome by evil. but overcome evil with good ..... "

Remember, all events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.

If you are confused again, my thousand apology.

.....
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written by claude, January 03, 2008 20:28:39
For the record, Buddhism is a religion that not only teaches non - violence but had shown in history, for more than 2500 years, that its propagation to more than a billion people was not by the sword / violence / force and not a single drop of blood was spilled in its name, So far.
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written by monstercat, January 04, 2008 01:49:49
mimag2005, u really exemplifies an insincere rotten soul. For one, when you can't answer a question you feign you have bad memory, then voila! quote so many verses. And you only take verses that matters to your cause. You revealed that you are the same as what you labelled Cosmic "Mr. Know All" with disdain. That's why no one bothered to repudiate your rantings. Go on rant and rave some more, we are very much entertain because you can rant and rave till the cow comes home, no one in their right mind who has found their truths are convinced by you. From your rants, many know that you do not understand what you're reading, either you are too literal, or think too deep. Well, as desperate as you seemed to want to impress upon all that you are a learned person with such great understanding of the holy books, I think we will award you that so you can sleep better. We wouldn't want you to develop a blood pressure problem and ail in your health. So "kesian, tak ada orang layan dia".
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written by Wisdom above, January 04, 2008 22:24:56
... written by mimag2005, January 04, 2008 | 02:06:53
Read all your 15 postings and their humble answers to your postings.

a) You are full of knowledge and overflowing with useful ideas.

b) All your expositions were well researched and analytical.

c) Your insight to reprove, repute, request, require and requite, are all admirable.

d) .... But you continue to seek , and answers are still forthcoming.

" Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts ? "

e) ... Remember events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.

" And I applied my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly.
I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.
For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increase sorrow. "

If you are confused again, my thousand apology.

.....
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written by Benny, January 04, 2008 23:13:36
None of us can comprehend God,cause if we could then all of us would be God.
We are just the dirt in the earth,the scum and nothing more.There is no point in looking for the saw dust in your brother's eye when you have a plank in yours.There is enough violence in this world,and we all should follow what Jesus did,he healed the leper and gave sight to the blind.Full of humility ,kindness and love.

No matter how much knowledge anyone has in this world,it is just a teardrop of all unknown knowledge.
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written by pakwen, January 05, 2008 00:27:29
RPK, I have always enjoyed your writings, investigations and analysis. Your wit and sarcasm are a source of entertainment for many. But I am convinced you were half asleep when you wrote this article. The problem with the 3 religions mentioned is that followers have a tendency to take scripture writings out of context. And it is this very narrow minded interpretation of an already translated scriptures that led us to so much silly violence today and over the past 1400 years. Let it be for each of us to criticise our own religious practices rather than other people's religious practices.
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written by Shimshon, January 05, 2008 00:29:33
Malaysia cannot afford another May 13, says DPM
Tuesday, 01 January 2008
----------------------

written by Shimshon, January 02, 2008 | 06:32:47


"Remember, May 13, '69?? We'll kill you guys!!!"

That's all the Malays keep saying - year after year, decade after decade!!

"Don't question our rights - just shut up and follow orders! As "Malay Rights" includes, "the right to kill" the nonMalays & nonMuslims - and to get away with it!

Back in the 1960s - in the early years of Independance -- they spent their time - (instead of nation-building, ref. Ecomony) - with Malay Rights(Ketuanan Melayu, when most of them are Indons), with Malay Language Right/Status, with the Status of Islam issues.

And then came 1963 - when Malaysia & Singapore(incldg. Sabah, Sarawak) joined the Federation --
and these racist & religious bigots kept on with their "Malay racial, language & religious" (demands)--

and that resulted in the 1964 racial riots in Singapore!!
(Yep!! The Malays & Chinese there were just getting along fine - and these bug*ers incited/provoked riots & killings!)

After Singapore left the Federation in 1965 - the Melayus here continued harping up on the usual "race, religion, language" stuff -- and it of course increased racial tensions - and the 1969 riots & killings!!

The Tunku didn't like to steal from the Chinese to enrich the Malays (unlike that idiot Mahathir) --
and so he started up a number of Malay-owned enterprises, transportation companies, Bank Bumiputra, etc etc. - in the 1960s.
But the Malays don't have it in them - to take it from there!!

So the likes of Mahathir -- felt that the only way is for the Chinese to just give a slice of their wealth to the Malays -
the "PRAGMATIC" way to economically bring the Malays as the "tuans" of/in economy too -- (other than politics.) -
or else the Malays will "NATURALLY" resort to (violence & killings).


The 1969 riots came -all "intrinsically"(naturally) planned("just so happened") - (being part of the Malay-Muslim psyche) -
as UMNO lost the elections - and they can't accept defeat -- so "go and kill the Chinese!" (as the Chinese now threatened their political clout).

It seems - only the Muslims more than any other religions - will riot, demonstrate, kill, resort to terrorism, etc -- if they're poorer than the others, if they get offended over petty issues, etc.
(In the case of Malaysia, it's just the Malays more than the other races; ... as if the others don't have sensitivity, poverty, issues/rights, etc)

But we don't hear the Chinese, the Indians, the East Malaysian races, the Orang Aslis, etc - all who have "real" problems and issues --
and more so since they're the minorities - while the Malays the majority --
just wanting to kill the Malays or Muslims!!

Hmmm... It's so good to be a nonMalay & Kafir/Infidel!!
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 05, 2008 01:24:11
Islam is a copy of Christianity and Judaism. I don´t think those stupid Malay politicians and Ulamak knows this fact. smilies/grin.gif
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written by decapod, January 05, 2008 01:26:34
#1 Jesus mentioned that he came to fulfill and accomplish the Law of the Prophets.
Correction
#1 Jesus mentioned that he came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets

--
http://rukunegara.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106#106
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written by Msia Negarakuku, January 05, 2008 01:27:01
If you look back at Arab culture and history, 'Tok Syed' is very bad people hence Islam religion was found to educate them.
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 10:07:49
Europeans ,the biggest buthchers in history r now in luv with buddhism,becos depa dah letih denagan violence,n one some peace n quiet to calm thier higly agitated nerves..t say dat buddhism is a religion is false,and buddhism d only religion dat preaches ahimsa lagi false.
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 10:16:45
http://www.hindustantimes.com/...dline=Take it from Vivekananda
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 10:19:38
apapasai si vivekanada cakap vedantic head ,islamic body..?jawapanya..the fundemantal/spirtual truth of islam becoming rock solid le.. smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:14:03
mr.diabolical eyes aka naren babu aka vivekanada smilies/grin.gif
http://vidyamandira.ac.in/academics/naac/Html/images/Math 166_Swami Vivekananda Ochre.jpg

naran babu cuka hisap bidi oh.. smilies/shocked.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:15:13
http://vidyamandira.ac.in/acad...mages/Math 166_Swami Vivekananda Ochre.jpg

http://books.******.com/books?id=OjwwJcdKEy8C&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=vivekananda and islam body&source=web&ots=IbtSnC8o8b&sig=cmpwmeky_0vEOiHE40EORWaa0xk#PPA176,M1
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:32:51
This is a miracle that men can love God, yet fail to love humanity. With whom are they in love then ?
Sri Aurobindo
http://www.searchforlight.org/The_Mother_BY_Sri Aurobindo/The thoughts and aphorisms/Sri Aurobindo,Thoughts and Aphorisms, integral yoga, sri aurobindo ashram,jnana,1.htm
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:44:53
170. Mahomed's mission was necessary, else we might have ended by thinking, in the exaggeration of our efforts at self-purification, that earth was meant only for the monk and the city created as a vestibule for the desert.
Sri Aurobindo

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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:47:15
171. When all is said, Love and Force together can save the world eventually, but not Love only or Force only. Therefore Christ had to look forward to a second advent and Mahomed's religion, where it is not stagnant, looks forward through the Imams to a Mahdi

172. Law cannot save the world, therefore Moses' ordinances are dead for humanity and the Shastra of the Brahmins is corrupt and dying. Law released into Freedom is the liberator. Not the Pandit, but the Yogin; not monasticism, but the inner renunciation of desire and ignorance and egoism

Sri Aurobindo
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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:50:36
183. In the Buddhists' view to have saved an ant from drowning is a greater work than to have founded an empire. There is a truth in the idea, but a truth that can easily be exaggerated.
Sri Aurobindo


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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 11:52:10
193. The existence of poverty is the proof of an unjust and ill-organised society, and our public charities are but the first tardy awakening in the conscience of a robber.
Sri Aurobindo

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written by SUV, January 05, 2008 13:38:34






CXLII
(Written to Mohammed Sarfaraz Husain of Naini Tal)



ALMORA,
10th June, 1898.

MY DEAR FRIEND,


I appreciate your letter very much and am extremely happy to learn that the Lord is silently preparing wonderful things for our motherland.

Whether we call it Vedantism or any ism, the truth is that Advaitism is the last word of religion and thought and the only position from which one can look upon all religions and sects with love. I believe it is the religion of the future enlightened humanity. The Hindus may get the credit of arriving at it earlier than other races, they being an older race than either the Hebrew or the Arab; yet practical Advaitism, which looks upon and behaves to all mankind as one's own soul, was never developed among the Hindus universally.


On the other hand, my experience is that if ever any religion approached to this equality in an appreciable manner, it is Islam and Islam alone.

Therefore I am firmly persuaded that without the help of practical Islam, theories of Vedantism, however fine and wonderful they may be, are entirely valueless to the vast mass of mankind. We want to lead mankind to the place where there is neither the Vedas, nor the Bible, nor the Koran; yet this has to be done by harmonising the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran. Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose that path that suits him best.

For our own motherland a junction of the two great systems, Hinduism and Islam — Vedanta brain and Islam body — is the only hope.

I see in my mind's eye the future perfect India rising out of this chaos and strife, glorious and invincible, with Vedanta brain and Islam body.

Ever praying that the Lord may make of you a great instrument for the help of mankind, and especially of our poor, poor motherland.

Yours with love,


VIVEKANANDA
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written by lokenpal, January 05, 2008 14:23:44
SUV;
Tks for the long sermon. I hope you are not writing about 'religion' and such to show whose faith is better or more pragmatic; rational. I think you are wasting your precious time!
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written by Wisdom above, January 05, 2008 14:53:09
........... "written by pakwen, January 05, 2008 | 00:27:29 .......
..........." RPK, I have always enjoyed your writings, investigations and analysis. Your wit and sarcasm are a source of entertainment for many. But I am convinced you were half asleep when you wrote this article. The problem with the 3 religions mentioned is that followers have a tendency to take scripture writings out of context. And it is this very narrow minded interpretation of an already translated scriptures that led us to so much silly violence today and over the past 1400 years. Let it be for each of us to criticise our own religious practices rather than other people's religious practices. " ......

1) You are full of knowledge.
2) You are gifted & appear to have used magnifying glasses to extract perspectives both ways.

Would you care to share your insights and what you have learned.

Remember, all events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.

........

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written by Michael Soh, January 05, 2008 15:33:03
Dear Mimang 2005, Wisdom, Ultraman, monstercat, cosmic , mimag and Raja Petra,

Just to note that the bible has a clear explaination why the laws are no longer applicable. They are actually 516 laws in the Old Testament besides the 10 commandment written on stones.

"I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5.17,1smilies/cool.gif

One need to read the bible in totality to understand God........ all 66 books together, then we can see the love of God.

Joh 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled , saith, I thirst.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Fullfilled = Accomplished = Finished.
In John 19:30, Jesus cried out before he died at the cross .......It is Finished. ( this is reinforce in John 19:28 that all things were now accomplished.)

Thus if you read Matt 5:17,18 together with John 19:28, 30 you see a complete picture.

I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill them( Part 1)......Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till it is fulfilled ..............(Part 2)

Read it again by flipping the two part

Once it is fulfill( Part 2) , whether heaven and earth pass away or not, jots and titles shall pass from the law (Part 1).

If it is fulfilled, He can abolish the law. After the gospel ( ie after book John) from Book of Acts onwards till Book Of Jude..........No example of punsihment by law recoreded in the New Testament.

Notice in Hebrew 8:7-9 God found fault with the old covenant and replace with a new.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Also notice, if keep the laws, we are cursed.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


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written by mimag2005, January 05, 2008 16:51:27
written by Michael Soh, January 05, 2008 | 15:33:03

Just to note that the bible has a clear explaination why the laws are no longer applicable.

"I come not to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5.17,1

Fullfilled = Accomplished = Finished.

If it is fulfilled, He can abolish the law…….
------------------------------------------------------


Dear Michael,

Please explain during Jesus Ministry on earth what did he…..

Fullfilled = Accomplished = Finished ?

Thank You.


....
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written by Wisdom above, January 05, 2008 18:21:49
...When good is bad and bad is good ..
"written by Michael Soh, January 05, 2008 | 15:33:03
Dear Mimang 2005, Wisdom, Ultraman, monstercat, cosmic , mimag and Raja Petra," ...........

You are full of knowledge. Excellent exposition.

Not easy to understand " Paradigms " of all wise thinkers.

Just give simple factual quotes : use citations as they are good to edify goodness.

a) Fulfilled =

b) Accomplished =

c) Finished =

...( written by mimag2005, January 05, 2008 | 16:51:27 )
written by Michael Soh, January 05, 2008 | 15:33:03 .......

" Our learned friend is scanning your thinking waves."
He is full of knowledge and overflowing with useful ideas.
He is gifted with insight to reprove, repute, request, require and requite, all are admirable.


Remember, events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.
...

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written by Michael Soh, January 05, 2008 23:26:17
Hi Mimag 2005,

Jesus Accomplished / Fulfill / Finish his race to keep all the laws. He did not sin. Not even one of the 516 laws the 10 commandment. But yet, he is made to be sin. See 2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. He fulfill all the laws to be our perfect sacrifice. He kept the laws, we did not keep the laws. He was made sinful, we were made righteous. ( confuse? You may ask how can this be fair? One person who did not sin but made sin can likewise, make me sinful to become righteous. Bear with me for a while.....)

See in Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

One man disobedience is Adam. ( Adam punya pasal lah kita kena mati kuda sai). Even we keep all the laws, we are all still made sinners. ( when I see Adam, I nak pukul Adam ni ) By the same tone, the obedience of one ( Jesus) we are all made Righteous. To me, when Christ call out “it is Finished” it is a victory cried. He has made us Righteous and restore us with God.

The word “Finish” in original Greek recorded in John 19:30 means ACCOMPLISH. This is the same with “Fullfil” in Greek recorded in Mat 5:17 which means ACCOMPLISH


Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

That one man offence is Adam. No fault of ours, even if we keep all the laws us, we are still going to hell. ( Adam punya pasal lah) Not fair I cried out.

But at the other end, the abundance of Christ grace and His give of righteousness , we all shall reign in live. Not our doing that earns this. But Christ’s Grace and GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Please notice that is a GIFT. Not a salary or a reward or a bribe for us to do something in order to receive this GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. If we have to earn it, it is not a GIFT.

So what is left? Keeping the laws to be righteous in the old testament, no longer applies. It is already fulfill by Jesus. We are made righteous by this Gift of Righteousness. We are no longer Righteous by the works of keeping the laws. The Laws is not longer the focus. Jesus is. Focus on his Grace and Gift of Righteousness. If keeping the laws is important, than Jesus died in vain. See in Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

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written by monstercat, January 06, 2008 02:36:56
Dear Michael

Thank you for good insight. What I've learnt is to uphold the teachings of Christ, that is to love God the one and only, and love our neighbour. By instilling such love in us we would be able to win over whatever evils that dwell in our hearts. Because no matter how pious one thinks of oneself, we are sinners. If one person were to think that he/she is more righteous than others, then that self-elevated person becomes arrogant and will look upon others in disdain. And he/she will think that his/her actions are justified against others whom he/she thinks as not as righteous. Regards.
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written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 06:47:22
Hi Michael Soh,
Good morning !

01) Noted your sincere efforts to justify Jesus mission as Accomplished/Fulfill/Finish
using qtes fm Paul’s 2Cor & Romans.

02) Confused ? You should be !

I’ve shown earlier how this fella paul (the 13th self appointed apostle) changes
God’s commandments with impunity….....

As opposed to Jesus and the other Prophets teaching and reminding us ..to follow and don’t change
even a dot or tittle of the old commandments.

03)Poor Adam, our First Human Father…
why you nak pukul dia ? … Pls don’t be “ anak menderhaka “.

If you want to pukul somebody, then by all means pukul paul.. he deserve it !

…..in the old testament you find :

Ezekiel Ch 18 : 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Jeremiah Ch 31 : 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

2Kings Ch 14 : 6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

For the sins of Adam and Eve does it make sense for God, the Most Merciful God to penalise us …. when we first born as … tiny, little, innocent cherubs ?

Dear Brother Michael… pls put forward a more solid case to justify Jesus mission as Accomplished/Fulfilled/Finished AND… is the Saviour for the World and not for the House of Israel.


Erh…. One other important matter for the Pauline Christians. This fella paul have been forcing down on many people’s throats (for the last 2000 years) about Jesus death and his resurrection.

I will be very grateful if you or anyone from Christiandom can show me where in the Old Testament mention about JESUS RESURRECTION !

Thank you.

p/s
written by monstercat, January 06, 2008 | 02:36:56

What I've learnt is to uphold the teachings of Christ, that is to love God the one and only,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALLELUYAH! I'm happy for you !



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written by mikewang, January 06, 2008 07:21:01
Think of it in this way, Datuk Syed Ali.
If subversives and radicals did not voice out their ideas and views way back in the 7th century, you would not have been a Muslim today.
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written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 07:54:05
Hi Monstercat,

Morning to You !

I kind of getting some positive vibes about you.

Heard theres a cool band playing bluesy numbers at bangsar.

Care to join me for a beer !

Cheers !
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written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 08:35:53
written by decapod, January 03, 2008 | 14:39:17

John 3:16
["For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.]
---------------------------------

…. Why have you expunged the word “BEGOTTEN ” and replaced with “ ONE ”.... ??


Mark 7:18-19
["Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."]
------------------------------------------------

What are you trying to say…. that eating pork is ok ?

Leviticus Ch 11 : 7/8 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
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written by SUV, January 06, 2008 10:24:28
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif @lokenpal..dey..who is sermoning eh?i aint got no time for sermoning..ask labismanlah...the prob wit malaysians is they know very very litle about inner workings(jangan pulak olang stat accusing me of bein spirit expert.. smilies/cheesy.gif)..there exist in us permenat spiritual laws..religion came into play to reveal those laws 2 uslah(we dont know bcos of ignorance) ..undertsnd lokenPAL!u can read books,hafal every pages..but if u dont realise,feel anything spitual..u r f*ked.. smilies/wink.gif..btw,the Vivekanada,the Sri Aurobindos..umm,u lokenPAL have no f*kin idea who they r,what were thier mission,what they did for humanity..
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written by SUV, January 06, 2008 10:27:59
hehe..ini khusus utuk lokenpal.. smilies/grin.gif
http://www.miraura.org/lit/sa/ly/ly3-3.html
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written by SUV, January 06, 2008 10:31:35
caya makan cemua..beef oso....whats food?compact energy..woohoo.so i eat everythin..siki gout punya pasai..minuming dah stop smilies/sad.gif
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written by SUV, January 06, 2008 10:35:37
spiritual dynamics..woohoo!! smilies/grin.gif
http://www.motherservice.org/Essays/LDIntro.html
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written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 12:07:13
Mimag 2005,

God is a righteous God. When Adam and Eve Sin, He has to punish them. If you read Genesis, you will know why mankind fall and why you and me cannot go to heaven even if we are gooody goody guys that keep all our laws. ( I was joking when I say I nak pukul Adam...........just to elaborate a point. No fault of us, no matter how good we are, we are all not going to heaven)

These two bible verses quoted by you means we will die (if we do not have a savior. I am not righteous by my own account. you and me cannot keep all the 516 plus 10 laws and claim self righteous.......realising this fact, shows us God's love for us)
Ezekiel Ch 18 : 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Jeremiah Ch 31 : 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
But thanks to Jesus we have eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.

NOTICE there is a significant change after the cross. Before the cross, we need to be righteous by own doing. After the cross, our righteousness is from Christ ( which comes as a GIFT). We cannot claim self righteousness. We receive thsi GIFT and say thank you humbly. Only pride in us wants to hold on to the laws and do the laws to claim self righteousness

Can we reject Paul's teaching?( which all come from Christ) Can we reject some of the books in the bible? If yes, that means we cherry pick what we want to believe and reject what we dont want to believe............ thus can we reject our salvation from Christ? Who gave us authority to reject the word of God? Can we reject some of the 66 books in the Bible?

Many bible verses that lead us to Christ resurrected in the Old Testament
See Hos 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the THIRD day he will RAISE us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Why only focus on Old Testament. How about prophecies in the New Testament or the Gospel


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written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 12:14:54
Mimag 2005,

Psalm16: 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

These talks about Christ(Holy One) raised and sitted at the right hand of God.
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written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 12:17:52
Dear Mimag 2005,

Luke 2:30-36 also talks and explain about Christ. Book of Acts written by Luke ( do you also have problem with Luke the physician?)

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

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written by Wisdom above, January 06, 2008 14:49:22
...
.... written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 | 06:47:22 ....

... " Erh…. One other important matter for the Pauline Christians. This fella paul have been forcing down on many people’s throats (for the last 2000 years) about Jesus death and his resurrection." ...

Are you feeling hurting deep inside ?
Did some "idealistic goody" unconsciously stepped on your toes in the last decade ?

... Heard theres a cool band playing bluesy numbers at bangsar.
Care to join me for a beer ! ...
... Nice place to relax and forget lol ...

Remember, events that happened yesterday and today were all illogical.
...


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written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 16:50:32
Dear Michael,

written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 | 12:07:13

God is a righteous God…….
--------------------------------

GOD is also THE BEST JUDGE, MOST MERCIFUL,MOST FORGIVING, MOST UNCOMPARABLE .. the list on his SUPER QUALITIES AND ATTRIBUTES GOES ON AND ON…….

If in FULL CONSCIOUS of your surroundings & WITH SINCERITY you say God is a righteous God……,
-----------------------

then..... GOD WILL NOT HOLD YOU, ME AND BILLIONS OF OTHERS RESPONSIBLE NOR ACCOUNTABLE FOR A CRIME

01)we DID NOT commit…..
02)we WERE NOT accomplices…..
03)we WERE NOT a witness to…..

Even the present Judiciary System in our country WILL IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT HESITATION, WITHOUT A MOMENT’S NOTICE… THROW OUT THIS CASE and the Judge concern will surely give the Prosecutor a DRESSINGDOWN of the most severe kind…… !!!

Now coming back to your argument on Jesus Ministry as Accomplish/Fulfilled/Finished ….

Please allow me to give my version :

01) GOD, The ONE TRUE INDIVISIBLE GOD had sent a chain of Prophets and Warners to the House of Israel
a.k.a the Jewish nation/people.

02) There is no dispute that Moses, David, Solomon, Jonah, Isaiah and the other Israelite Prophets, were sent for the people of the House of Israel a.k.a. the jewish nation/people.

03) These prophets/warners live with their people, engage in daily activities, taught about the worldly ways and also about Existence of the ONE, INDIVISIBLE TRUE GOD

04) When their time was up… they exited…… according to God’s plan.

05) The coming of some of these Prophets were foretold in the Scriptures.

06) Upto the Advent of John the Baptist and Jesus the Messiah, the People of the House of Israel a.k.a. the jewish nation/people were waiting for 3 more prophets to appear according to the scriptures :-

John Ch 1 : 19 /21, 25
-----------------------------
19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Eli'jah (*) ? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that Prophet ? And he answered, No………….

……25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Eli'jah, neither that Prophet?

They were 3 DISTINCT PROPHETS :

Eli’jah
Messiah ( Christ )
That Prophet

We all know that Jesus was the Messiah… so 2 more to go…..Lets go to……

Matt Ch 17 : 10-13
-------------------------

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Eli'jah must first come ?11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Eli'jah truly shall first come, and restore all things.12 But I say unto you, That Eli'jah (*) is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


(*) Jesus said John the Baptist is Eli’jah….
John the Baptist said he is not Eli’jah

--- If you are confuse.. pls sort this out with your elders

Anyway, back to the Jesus Ministry on ACCOMPLISHED/FULFILLED/FINISHED :

… So 2 out of 3 has been fulfilled…. Now we left with ONE more Prophet to complete the Prophecy as foretold in the scriptures.

07) Has Jesus got anything to say about this last Prophet ?.... Lets go to….

John Ch 16 : 7, 12-14

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

13. Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for HE shall not speak of HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak: and HE will show you things to come. 14. HE shall glorify me: for HE shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.

-In one passage Jesus has stressed the common pronoun “ HE ” …. 8 TIMES !......

-WHY ???........... Because “HE” is a MAN….. A MAN of FLESH AND BONES …. LIKE JESUS, LIKE EARLIER ISRAELITE PROPHETS !!

-I don’t think theres another passage in the bible which stress the pronoun “ HE”
……. 8 TIMES… (Michael , please correct me if I am wrong )


0smilies/cool.gif Did Jesus Accomplished/Fulfilled/Finished his Ministry according to God’s plan ?

….. The answer is a………….Resounding YES !!!

… Jesus fulfilled his role, just like earlier Israelite Prophets… sent for the People of the House of
Israel a.k.a. the jewish nation/people.

09) Now who is this PROPHET… “HE will guide you into ALL TRUTH : for HE shall not speakof HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak:

…… Has this Prophecy been fulfilled ?.......Pls ask your Elders

I rest my case !


..................
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written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 17:02:45
Peace be unto you,

written by Wisdom above, January 06, 2008 | 14:49:22

Are you feeling hurting deep inside ?
Did some "idealistic goody" unconsciously stepped on your toes in the last decade ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, My Good Brother,

I'm a believer in " Illusions within the Illusions... layers upon layers "

Also a practitioner.. calling a spade a spade !

have a good week ahead, with God's Blessings !
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written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 17:35:30
Good is Good and Bad is Bad.

Law (10 commandments) is requested by man. The Jews in Egypt were sinning when God send Moses to rescue them. It is God's grace to send Moses. A Prince in Egypt to come as a common man to rescue the Jews ( Jesus was a son of God, He was send to rescue us while we were still sinners) It is also interesting to note that the Jews were still sinning, some praying to idols in Egypt when God's Grace brought the Jews out of Egypt.

Unfortunately, once they were rescue out of Egypt, they ask for laws from God at Mount Sinai. ( They could have asked God.......By Grace we were brought out of Egypt, by Grace brings us in to the promise land). By human nature, we believe it would be fair to have laws. If we keep the laws we get bless and if we dont keep the laws we get punish. We believe we can perform for God. And as long as we perform, we are okay.

1. But the bible tells us when there is laws, we will sin more.(Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might ABOUND. ) The bible did not say with God's grace we will sin more.

2. The bible tells us that there is a curse for those who keep the laws ( Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the WORKS of the law are under the CURSE: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.)

3. The bible says that it is not God's grace that us under the control of Sin. But the laws wil make you to be under the control of sin. ( Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. = for sin shall have dominon over you for you are under LAW and not under GRACE)

4. God found fault with the Laws and replace it. ( Heb 8;7-9) If God Himself found fault in them, why hold on to it. If God replace it, why are we trying to re-instating them?

I am against Sin. I am not for sinning. But the answer to overcome sin is not found in the Laws. It is found in God's grace and His Righteousness. See Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive ABUNDANCE OF GRACE and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall REIGN IN LIFE by one, Jesus Christ.

To REIGN IN LIFE is a kingly dominion in Greek ( Original New Testament is written in Greek). Kingly dominion is to live successfully without sin controlling you. The bible did not say ABUNDANCE IN LAWS YOU REIGN IN LIFE. It says ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS we reign in life

In conclusion, Good is Good and Bad is Bad. Keeping the laws is taking in a curse. Keeping the laws is to sin more ( likely case sinning more in hiding). Keeping the laws is allowing sin to dominate ourselves.

I am encourage to read a book written by Syed Akbar Ali. His book title "To Digress A little" . In Chapter 16 The "Hantu" in the Prime Minsiter's residence........he explain that in Kelantan there are too many gang rapes and incest. He also state that even in Malay Kampongs where there are no night clubs and where women are more prone to wearing the tudung and hijab, the cases of incest are not only increasing but some of the cases are quite unbelievable, even mosque officials are not spared from aberrant behaviour. Howver he contrast it with the total absence of incest not just among the Chinese in Malaysia but also among the Malays in Singapore. Chinese girls do not wear tudung or hujah instead they wear short skirts and short pants. I salute Syed Akbar Ali for encouraging the religious folks as well as the sociologiest in Malaysia to study why the diffence in gang rapes and incest in Chinese and the Malays in Singapore. Could this be cause by the excessiveness presence of laws that only will encourage more sinning in hiding? Laws that will arouse our flesh to sin more ( Rom 7:8 But sin seized the opportunity provided by this commandment (LAWS) and produced in me all kinds of sinful desires. For apart from the law, sin is dead.) NOTICE: Sin takes opportunity from the LAWS to produce all kinds of SINFUL DESIRES.
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written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 19:52:28
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the TREE OF LIFE.

Because of Adam, subsequent mankind has no access to TREE OF LIFE. No fault of us, we are throw in to suffer the curses. found in Gen 3:16 to 3:24

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
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written by monstercat, January 07, 2008 03:39:19
Hello mimag2005,

Oh, I do try to exude as much positive vibes as God accord to me - nah!! just kidding.
As Wisdom kept on telling you, your knowledge is great. But bear in mind knowledge without understanding is what ails us most of the time. I say us not you only. I've read some articles from answering-islam website which had helped in strengthening my faith. No, I may not have gained deep understanding, but it helps. By going to such sites, I'm also exposed to other religions esp. Islam. Plus the fact that I hear a lot from my Muslim friends. I asked a lot of questions and try to understand where they are coming from. As for your invitation to beer at Bangsar, should I accept, it'll be a very expensive night out for me. Hope you have a good time yourself, don't get drunk cos you won't be able to enjoy the sights, conversations with ppl, and your vision will start to swing. Bet you know all this anyway.
Cheers !
smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by Michael Soh, January 07, 2008 03:43:00
Dear Brother Mimag 2005,

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the FIRST, that he may establish the SECOND.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jesus has to replace the First Covenant of Laws with a new Covenant of Faith that we are righteous by gift not by our works of keeping ALL the laws. He did this by offering His body to sanctified us ONCE AND FOR ALL. We are set apart as Holy, Righteous and Santified
( See 1Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemptionsmilies/smiley.gif

Elijah and other prophets did not say they will fulfill the laws. Jesus did and when he fulfill all the laws (He ACCOMPLISHED them), he shout out loud "IT IS FINISHED" (The very hand that wrote the laws on stone were nail to the cross. Laws ends at the cross.)
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written by sydput, January 07, 2008 11:12:04
Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you…” (Quran 5:3)

A true muslim believes in God, the hereafter and do good deeds and is righteous. Nothing more is required.

Present day people of the muslim religion have reverted to being pagans, by prostrating before a meteoric stone in mecca, and some do this 5 times a day.

Idol worshippers and pagans will never understand the truth in islam. Islam was never meant to be a religion. Religion are for the pagans in Arabia, Pharoah, The jews after Moses, the Romans and The christians who have become people who worshipped a man.

Did jesus know about the Christian religion and the corrupted bible? Obviously no. He was against all froms of religious ideas but the jewish people during the time of jesus, with their rabbis just does not comprehend. They required something to worship. Nor did the Romans umderstood what he stood for.

Similarly, Mohamed brought messages from God as he was living in a Arab community who were pagan worshippers. Did the Arabs received him warmly and embraced his messages? No way Jose. They treated Mohamed like dirt, called him a liar and a crazy man.( All in the Koran).

Today’s muslim will testify to the hadith and the sunnah, books supposedly written by companions of the Mohamed. Sometimes the muslim clerics will use the sunnah and hadith to override the guides written in the Koran. Why do present day people of the religion of islam hold such books in high regards when Mohamed himself dare not deviate from God’s text.

It is my belief that after the death of Mohamed, the pagan arabs deviated the messages found in the Koran, by wrongly translating certain text, and creating the sunnah and hadiths to propagate their pagan faith.

People who idol worship are blind to their actions. Ask the christians and the muslims. They will give all kinds of reason why they do so. Would you follow the advice of priest/popes/imams and clerics when the prophets themselves were just messengers of God’s messages and never claim to be a religious scholar or head of a community?

The people who subscribe to religion are forced to pay all kinds of religious tax. Does these money go to God, or the religious scholars get to pocket the money? When you pay imams or priest to bless certain things, have they been authorized by God to do so? I doubt it.

So to those who believe in God and the hereafter, stop your ritual worship and do not subscribe to any religion. Be righteous and focus on doing good deeds. It is that simple. Be humble always, for God hates the arrogants. And do not aggress, for God does not like the aggressor.

May I leave you with this :-

2:190 You shall confront in the path of God against those who confront against you - and there shall be no aggression. Indeed God – He dislikes those who are aggressive. 2:191 And you shall confront them wherever you are confronted - and expel them from wherever they expel you - and slandering is worse than fighting. And do not confront them by the sanctioned consented decrees - unless they confront you in it. Therefore, when they confront you - you must confront them. That would be the just response for those who do not trust. 2:192 Thus - if they refrain - then, God is forgiver – merciful. 2:193 And you must confront them until there is no more slandering. And the orderly way of life is for God alone. Therefore if they refrain - thus there shall be no more hostility - except over those who are unjust.

The people who are most unjust presently, happens to be followers of the religion of islam. They will deny those of other faiths their rights to propagate, hinder true muslims their voice to be heard, and deny the warnings given by God concerning priest and idol worship/paganism. These people have eyes, but they cannot see truth from falsehood.

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written by mimag2005, January 07, 2008 13:05:00
Hi monstercat,

Good afternoon !
...

written by monstercat, January 07, 2008 | 03:39:19

....... your knowledge is great......
....................................

......i have NOTHING !...... i am NOTHING !

...... ALL KNOWLEDGE is HIS !.........

...... ALL PRAISES to HIM !..........

...... HE created the Heavens and Earth and EVERYTHING WITHOUT ANY HELP !.....

...... HE DON'T NEED A MIDDLEMAN (which HE created) TO CARRY THE SINS OF MANKIND(which HE created)...

..... HE is the ONE, TRUE, INDIVISIBLE, UNIQUE ALMIGHTY GOD !....

We dont have to be a PRIEST or AN IMAM to have a visceral grasping and understanding!


cheers !

... the guy next door ....


......
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written by mimag2005, January 08, 2008 02:03:18

written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 | 06:47:22

Erh…. One other important matter for the Pauline Christians. This fella paul have been forcing down on many people’s throats (for the last 2000 years) about Jesus death and his resurrection.

I will be very grateful if you or anyone from Christiandom can show me where in the Old Testament mention about JESUS RESURRECTION !
------------------------------------


written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 | 11:00:58
There are plenty of prophecies such as from Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel that prophesied the death and RESURRECTION of the Messiah.
-------------

I just realised that on 1st Jan 2008 Cosmic informed that Jesus RESURRECTION WAS PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Since Cosmic is silent... I take it he must be away on business trip.

Wud any of you like to volunteer ??...

Thank you.

Amen !


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 08, 2008 04:11:36
Dear Brother Michael,

written by Michael Soh, January 07, 2008 | 03:43:00
Dear Brother Mimag 2005,

written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 | 19:52:28
written by Michael Soh, January 06, 2008 | 17:35:30
Good is Good and Bad is Bad.
---------------------------

Thank you for your sincere efforts in wanting to share the light. Appreciate it very, very much.

I shall try to digest as much as humanly possible and will revert, if necessary.

In the meantime, I give below 6 quotations from Book of ACTS, MATTHEW, MARK & JOHN concerning ONE OF THE MOST STUPENDOUS EVENT .... INDEED ONE OF THE "MAIN ENGINE" OF PAULINE CHRISTIANITY !

ACTS CH 5 29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE.

ACTS 10 : 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a TREE:

ACTS 13 : 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the TREE, and laid him in a sepulchre.

Matt 27 : 42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the CROSS, and we will believe him.

Mark 15 : 32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the CROSS, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 19 : 19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the CROSS. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
------------------------

I wud be grateful if you cud pls refer to your GREEK BIBLE and advise by return whether was there a printing error i.e. was Jesus put on a cross or was he put on a tree ????.........


Also I'm curious to know in the greek bible what word they use for cross and tree.

merci boucoup !
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written by Michael Soh, January 09, 2008 00:59:58
Hi Mimag 2005

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE.
(The GREEK words here is ξύλον. It is pronounce as xulon i.e xoo'-lon
Which means ; timber (as material); by implication a tree or other substance: - staff, stocks, tree, wood.)

Mat 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
The Greek word here is σταυρός (CROSS) It is pronounce as stauros i.e stow-ros'
Which means; a stake or post (as set upright), that is, (specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively exposure to death, that is, self denial; by implication the atonement of Christ: - cross.

Bible in Greek states two different thing ( i.e TREE and CROSS) for a purpose.
In Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, Acts 13:29, are records of words spoken by BELIEVERS.
In Matt27:42, Mark 15:32 John19:19 are records of words spoken by NON BELIEVERS.
Holy Spirit is the one who guides the writer to write it down as TREE or CROSS for a purpose. There is a hidden message for BELIEVERS.

You and me are son of God (if we accept Christ as our savior). Because of this, we can see the treasure hidden in this 6 bible verses. They are treasures for our taking as children of God.
Mankind condemned because Adam …………we have no access to the TREE of Life. (See Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the TREE of life.) Because it is kept away, we no longer can eat the FRUIT from the TREE of life

Jesus was said to be hung at a TREE. The Holy Communion that we take is his Flesh and Blood. He was hung at a TREE and we now can eat the Communion. The communion is a replacement to the Fruit from the TREE of life. That is a continuity from where Adam fail.

Also notice, when Adam and Eve failed, they hide behind a tree. Jesus continue from that very moment. ……ie when they ran away from God because of sin. He was hung at the TREE. So that if we sin and hide again behind a TREE………He is there for us. The tree symbolize Him………….remember, Jesus hung at the TREE as the FRUIT. Not only you cannot hide anymore , you do not need to hide anymore. You can eat the FRUIT of life……….the COMMUNION.

Conclusion: Non believers will call it CROSS. Believers will call it TREE. The CROSS and TREE wording is a hidden love story explain by using symbols
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written by Michael Soh, January 09, 2008 01:00:52
Mimag 2005,

Why you hate Paul so much? Paul does not advocate sinning. He is against sinning.

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written by lokenpal, January 09, 2008 11:02:03
SUV:
Tks once again for the thoughts. Religion is best kept private. You can't proof any of your religious inspirational words; from Swami to Sheiks. Saya makan semua lah; in moderation cukup.
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written by mimag2005, January 09, 2008 14:01:13
Hi Michael Soh,

Good afternoon !

written by Michael Soh, January 09, 2008 | 00:59:58

Hi Mimag 2005

Jesus was said to be hung at a TREE. The Holy Communion that we take is his Flesh and Blood. He was hung at a TREE and we now can eat the Communion.
..................................................................................................

Sorry, cant make response..... yet ! abit occupied with guests.

Mtime Cosmic wrote.....

written by cosmic, January 01, 2008 | 11:00:58

There are PLENTY OF PROPHECIES such as from Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel that prophesied the death and
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RESURRECTION of the Messiah.
----------------------------

I wud also be very grateful if you cud please show me at least ONE PROPHECY in the Old Testament, where
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was foretold of... JESUS RESURRECTION !
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Peace, my good brother !

......
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written by cmoon, January 09, 2008 22:29:00
Try to live harmoniously
How did differences arise within each religion? After the passing of the founders of these
religions, the followers violated the teachings of the founders and quarrelled among themselves
on account of their selfish interests. With the passage of time, schisms developed in each religion
and separate sects were formed. This is the result of individual, selfish motives and not the fault
of the original founders.
People must first of all get rid of self-interest and self-centredness. They must develop love,
forbearance and compassion. They must try to live harmoniously. Only then can we claim to be
lovers of peace in the nation and of the well-being of the world. Service should be the guiding
principle. There should be no room for any kind of differences in rendering service. When you
wish to serve society, you must be prepared to sacrifice your individual and communal interests.
Such sacrifice alone will sublimate one's life. The Veda has emphatically declared that
immortality can be attained only through thyaga (sacrifice) and not by any other means.

Don't entertain religious difference of any kind. Put into practice the message you receive here
and share the bliss of your experience with others. Preaching to others is not enough.
Everyone should develop devotion and dedication. Life without devotion is worthless. If one
does not show his gratitude to the Creator, of what avail is his life? Should you not show some
gratitude to the Lord who has provided such infinite benefits through Nature and the elements?
Gratitude should be the life-breath of a man.

The founders of religions experienced these truths and propagated them as ideals for mankind.
You must wholeheartedly live up to these teachings. Mere reading of the Bible or reciting the
Quran, repeating the Bhagavad Gita or chanting the Granth Saheb is not meritorious. The basic
teachings in each of these texts have to be put into practice in daily life.


Prophet Mohammed, , told his disciples before his passing that the money he owed to a
camel driver should be paid before his end came. The discharging of one's debts is regarded as a
pious obligation for every Bharatiya. Harischandra sacrificed everything for the sake of
honouring his plighted word.
It will be seen that all religions have emphasised the greatness of truth, sacrifice and unity. Learn
to live in love and harmony with all the members of your society
. This is the basic teaching of
Christianity and Islam. Guru Nanak favoured community prayers in preference to individual
prayer in isolation. When all people join in unison to pray to God, their prayers will melt the
heart of God. In a large gathering there must be at least one who prays with a pure heart. That
prayer will reach God. Hence, devotees should take part in community bhajans. They should
participate in community service and involve themselves in the life of the community. This is the
noblest path.
Cultivate love. Love is the form of the Divine and God can be realised only through love. Of all
the myriad names given to God, the one which is most to be cherished is Sat-Chit-Ananda
(Being-Awareness-Bliss). Sat represents Truth. Chit represents Jnana (wisdom). Where Sat and
Chit are present, Ananda (Bliss) is bound to be present. As God is Truth, He has to be realised
through Truth. As God is Jnana, He has to be realised through Jnana Marga (the path of
Knowledge). As He is Ananda (Bliss), He has to be realised through bliss. Follow the path of
Love and achieve the goal of Unity. Banish all differences. This is the supreme message for you
today.
Do not give room for religious differences
Embodiments of Divine Love! Wherever you may be, in whatever country, do not give room for
religious differences. Do not give up religion. Get rid of differences based on religion. Adhere to
your faith and your traditions. When differences between religions are given up, love will
develop in you. When love grows, you can have a direct vision of God. Without love, verbal
prayers are of no avail. Realise that the love that is present in everyone is common to all. It is
love that has brought you all together. It is the cord of love that has bound all of you. It is the
unifier, the motivator and the bringer of joy to all. Therefore, develop love.
Christmas message at Poornachandra Auditorium on 25-12-1990.
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written by mimag2005, January 10, 2008 16:17:41
Hi Michael,

Have you heard about a lass by the name of Popea, daughter of a High Priest....Mistress to Emperor Nero then subsequently became his wife.

Can you assist with some input ?

Thanks.


.....
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written by tcng, January 11, 2008 16:11:14
Is there any atheist or Agnostics among Malay population in Malaysia? Can any Malay enlighthen me?

How come in all other societies (Europe, US, Japan, Korea, China, India) there is a segment of population who call themselves atheist or Agnostics, but there is none in Malay society?
All Malay believe in Quran and Allah?

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=272
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written by mimag2005, January 11, 2008 20:17:15
Dear tcng,

Is there any atheist or Agnostics among Malay population in Malaysia? Can any Malay enlighthen me?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometime back when i was doing comparative religion, i did ask my muslim friend this same question.

According to my muslim friend reply,

... we will have good muslims, bad muslims and wayward muslims....but..

its almost impossible to find an atheist or agnostic malay muslim because every day ALLAH reminds the Muslim 5 times the azan or call to prayer . there is no other GOD.. except ALLAH... and mohamed is HIS messenger...

because of this daily and constant reminder, until today how bad or wayward a muslim.. he will never say many gods or no god. infact even he will not say that mohamed is GOD... unlike the mistake commited by his Olders brothers of other Faiths.


Fellow muslim bloggers.. if this is not true, please correct me for my own understanding.

thanks

......
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written by EYFF, January 12, 2008 00:35:58
Sorry RPK , you are mistaken.

The fanatical Islamic militants are truer and faithful to Islam than those moderates you so prefer. The fundamentalists are strictly obedient to the Koran and the Prophet as instructed in Suruh 47:4

Surah 47:4 says: Fa'idhā Laqītumu Al-Ladhīna Kafarū Fađarba Ar-Riqābi Ĥattaá 'Idhā 'Athkhantumūhum Fashuddū Al-Wathāqa Fa'immā Mannāan Ba`du Wa 'Immā Fidā'an Ĥattaá Tađa`a Al-Ĥarbu 'Awzārahā Dhālika Wa Law Yashā'u Allāhu Lāntaşara Minhum Wa Lakin Liyabluwa Ba`đakum Biba`đin Wa Al-Ladhīna Qutilū Fī Sabīli Allāhi Falan Yuđilla 'A`mālahum

Have you ever come across such statement by Christ in the Bible? I rest my case!
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written by Malaysiaputra, January 12, 2008 17:00:36
Simple folks like me just look for simple answers, "Jesus said Matthew 7:16. ' You will know them by their fruits .......' 7:18 'A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit".

What conclusion will one expect simple folks like me to end up with from what we see and hear on TV and the other news ?
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written by dreadloxking, January 12, 2008 22:54:22
>>>But the violence has always been there from the period soon after the Prophet's death. It is just that we did not see it from the comfort of our living rooms. Many of the Muslim leaders down to the Caliphs of the Medina period suffered violent deaths, as did the children and grandchildren of the Prophet. Yes, that's right, even the immediate family and descendants of the Prophet were not spared this violence. --->>> Allahumma solli ala Muhammad wa ali Muhammad! At last, I manage to read this fact is written on malaysia today. This phrase could prove to bash posers like taliban d padang pasir, not to just copy & paste facts about Islam from e-Koran & e-hadeeths,from other websites...just for the sake to show off his so-called level of thinking!

And to the rest of posers (Syed2 & Sharifah2) in Malaysia...SAYYID means descendant of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Not SYED, not SHARIFAH...pleasssseeee la weiii! Deyy amma!

Labbaika Ya Mahdi! May Allah swt hasten his re-appearance! (2015?) smilies/wink.gif
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written by mimag2005, January 13, 2008 14:07:23

written by Malaysiaputra, January 12, 2008 | 17:00:36

Simple folks like me just look for simple answers, "Jesus said Matthew 7:16. ' You will know them by their fruits .......' 7:18 'A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit".

What conclusion will one expect simple folks like me to end up with from what we see and hear on TV and the other news ?
......................................................


The preachings of Jesus the Messiah cant be more true than a Cupid’s Arrow.

Even until today we can still “ see “ and “ hear “ the relevance of Jesus preachings in …

Matthew Ch 13

13 …. seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand…..

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith,…

……By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;…..
…… and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing,…..
…. and THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED......



............
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written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 21:51:03
Hi Mimag 2005

I was away for the last 4 days. I was travelling. You have listed 5 areas where you seem to have issues with Paul. I will try to explain as much as I can today. And revert back to you the balance when I can but I promise I be quick.

Part 1 of your text
01)Jesus and the other Israelite Prophets preached…. Follow the Old Laws and Commandments to gain eternal life……Matt Ch 5 : 17/18

MY RESPONDS= I have already explain this in detail in my previous replies to your text. In summary, Christ himself said that he came to fulfill it and once it is fulfill it can be replaced.

Paul preached - , you keep the Laws you are cursed
GAL 3 : 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

MY RESPONDS= Yes this is true. Law is holy. Law cannot make you holy. Lets not kid each other, you or me cannot keep all the laws all our life. Fail one law, we fail all. Once we fail, we only feel condemn. Paul said these with the Holy Spirit in him. He did not said it on his own authority. Like Malaysia Putra nicely said........Judge the fruits (that Paul delivers)Co 1:17

Paul explain in 1Cor 1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to PREACH THE GOSPEL: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Paul always gives praise to Christ and God. He does not cliam glory for himself. See 1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:........ You can see the same in Romans, galatians, Ephesians, Philipians , colossians etc. He priase God in all his letters. It does not come from him himself, but the Holy Spirit in him. This Holy Spirit is also in us, as believer of Christ.

Other apostle also accepted Paul. Paul was a killer, he burned churches and prosecuted Christian initially. Yet he is accepted by the apostles. Are the apostles blind? No. Moses himself was a killer. He killed an Egyptian. Yet God uses him to free the Jews from the Pharoah. David was an adulteror and kill Batsheba's husband by sending him to the frontline to be killed. God's principle are above our human wisdom. Christ has taught us that the weak will be strong. The poor will be reach .........etc etc It is the opposite that confound our human wisdom. (1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. )


DANIEL CH 7 : 25

AND HE SHALL SPEAK GREAT WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH, AND SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, AND THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: AND THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVING OF TIME.

MY RESPONDS= surely this guy that Daniel speak off is not Paul. This guy has many other negative qualification that we do not see in Paul. This guy unites the world. This guy is a commercial genius (Dan8:25, 11:3smilies/cool.gif He will be a military genius ( dan 8:24) He will be a governmentall genius ( Rev 13:1,2,Rev 17:17) If Paul is who Daniel say he is, that how come he cannot unite the world. Paul was prosecuted and stone, and his head was decaptivated.

How you quote bible verses is very dangerous. You seem to cherry pick and simply apply the words to situation.
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written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 22:04:20
Hi Mimag.

Part 2 of your text

02)Matt 23 : 9 & 12…. Jesus preached…….. 9And CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER UPON THE EARTH : FOR ONE IS YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN ……...…..12 And WHOSOEVER SHALL EXALT HIMSELF SHALL BE ABASED;.....

1 Cor 4 : 15 Paul preached……. Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus……. I BECAME YOUR FATHER …….through the gospel.

MY RESPONDS= Notice Paul preach the Gospel in the name of Christ Jesus. You quote 1Cor4:15 where Pual say " In CHRIST, I became your father, through the gospel.
How then you say Paul exalt himself. Paul was actually exalting Christ ( whom also is God). If he wants to exalt himself, he need not make reference of Christ. He need not praise and give glory to Christ.
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written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 22:15:14
03)Hebrew 8 : .Paul preached ……7 For if that first covenant had been FAULTNESS , then should no place have been sought for the second. ( IN SIMPLE TERMS …. MEANS GOD MADE A MISTAKE… BLASPHEMY! )

My Muslim friends say…THE MUSLIM KORAN IS PERFECT ( NO MISTAKES !!!) … AS GUARANTEED BY
…………………†¦ THE UNIQUE, INDIVISIBLE, ONE ONLY ALLAH !!.........................................

MY RESPONDS= God made man. Why is man so sinful. Is God imperfect in his creation? Thus, do you conclude Blashemy becuase man fail at the garden of Eden? Please check who asked for the first covenant? What was the purpose of the first covenant. The first covenant is a school teacher. Once you leave school you are no longer guided by your school teacher. I can only guess you are a working adult and you have left school severals years ago. Does it make sense now that your school teacher appear from no way TODAY and teach you 1 plus 1 equals to 2 and insist you submit you maths homework tomorrow morning. If you do see your teacher talking to you in these terms, you will call a phychiatric and make an appointment for your teacher. (See Gal 3:24 In fact, the Law was our teacher. It was supposed to teach us until we had faith and were acceptable to God. Gal 3:25 But once a person has learned to have faith, there is no more need to have the Law as a teacher)
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written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 22:44:09
Dear Mimag 2005

Your Part 4 of your text
04)Gen 17 : 9 /14Circumcision – An everlasting Covenant … God commanded that whosoever don’t circumcise.. that soul shall be cut off from his people.....

1 Cor 7 : Paul preached ..19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing,…

MY RESPONDS: Again you cherry pick and applies bible verses without ensuring it is in context to the Holy Bible. Let me try to use your approach to intepret bible and see where it will lead to. I will do this in two part. For simplicity, I shall call the first part Experiment #1 and the second part Expriment #2

EXPERIMENT #1
Lets say we take Numbers 11:1 And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.

Wow, we see here our Lord was displeased and barbecue those who complained ( MURMURRED) against Him. We also see God consumed 250 by fire in Numbers 16:35. and another 14,700 people by plague in Numbers 16:49. In Samuel24:15 we see another 17,000 people died because God send pestilence. Is God a killer? Or is He a just and righteous God. He has to pass judgement as per the Laws. If he does not, he is not a just and righteous God.

EXPERIMENT #2
Now let us say we look at the book of EXODUS
Exo 15:24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink? Exo 15:25 And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,

And in another part, we see CHILRDEN mumured for bread. See Exo 16:2 And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness: Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

And another part of Exodus, and in a different place to Exo 15:24, the same people murmur again for water. See Exo 17:3 And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?


Surprisingly in Experiment #2, no one was killed by God. Children and adult that complain were not killed? Why? Strange? Why people were killed in Experiment #1 but in #2? Has God practise BIASNESS? Has He gone soft? Is He an unrighteous God? No! No! No!. The difference between Experiment #1 and Experiment #2 is that Laws were not given yet. Laws from Mount Sinai has not been cast on stones yet. The laws were not in place. If the laws were not in place, it cannot be applied.

What I am trying to get at is, Mimag 2005 need to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth. Not half truth. To do so, Mimag 2005 need to read the whole bible, not cherry pick verses. Experiment #1 is the TRUTH. It is written in the Holy Bible. Experiment #2 is also the TRUTH and is written in the Holy Bible. In simple language, if you read the whole bible ( which consist of 66 books) you will know Experiment #1 is the half truth. And Experiment #2 is half truth. You need to combine both half truths together to get a whole complete picture. It is dangerous to run off to tell one half of the truth, without telling the other half truth. It is disastrous and dangerous.


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written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 22:59:12
Mimag 2005 wrote Just two clarifications.....pls.
01) If BELIEVERS NOW BELIEVE that JESUS was CRUCIFIED ON THE TREE... Why are they RELIGIOUSLY AND
PASSIONATELY carring crosses on their necks... I/O.....

MY RESPONDS: I cant comment why people do and dont do. My take, it is not necessary to carry any cross on our neck.You do or dont do has no implication. But it is people's choice what they want to do with their neck. (by the way, my quetion to you, how many religiously and passionately people do not carry crosses on their necks? Do I also need to explain why they dont carry crosses?)


MIMAG 2005 WROTE:
02) Why is there a " HIDDEN STORY ??? " Another New and hidden Doctrine ??? .... Whose brainchild about this hidden story becus........
Jesus said in......John Ch 18 :
19 The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. 20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and IN SECRET HAVE I SAID NOTHING !!!


MY RESPONDS= Jesus spoke and teach in the open. But he taught using parables. Why? Why not teach plainly. Generally, do people give away their wealth to everyone when they leave this world? Why did Jesus say that it is not right to take away children food and feed the dogs? (Mat 15:26, Mar7:27)
On another bible verses, Jesus taught Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. If you are not part of the body of Christ, you are not child of God. If you are not, you will never inherit his treasures. ( you dont give your ATM card to me to cash out your cash? do you?)

Lastly, you quoted these beutiful verses for Malaysiaputra, which I believes it refers to you. ( I take that you are not a believer of Christ and you do not follow his teachings)

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


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written by Compadre45, January 13, 2008 23:52:12
If we divine a discrepancy between a man's words and his character, the whole impression of him becomes broken and painful; he revolts the imagination by his lack of unity, and even the good in him is hardly accepted. smilies/grin.gif smilies/wink.gif
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written by Michael Soh, January 14, 2008 21:45:03
Hi Mimag2005.

Your quote bible verse John 16:7,12/14 which refers to the Holy Spirit. Jesus has to leave in order that the Holy Spirit can come to us. Holy Spirit is Spirit and this is mention in Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the SPIRIT of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
Sprit of truth = in the original Greek Bible pneum (pnyoo'-mah)
Which means Divine God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: -holy ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.
Also notice that this Spirit will only glorify Jesus. Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you. Joh 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Also notice that the Spirit dwells in Believers. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also see Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:3 For what the LAW COULD NOT DO, in that it was WEAK THROUGH THE FLESS, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Thus Jesus mission is already done.

Also read Col 2:14 having wiped out the HANDWRITING OF REQUIREMENTS that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of he way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

These verse reveal that the devil was armed with the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was so powerful that it required the death of Jesus to wipe it out. On Moonth Sinal, God wrote the 10 commandments on two tablets of stone. The HANDWRITING OF REQUIREMENTS was thus a reference to the law that was written by the finger of God. the devil then armed himself with the law to accuse and condemn man. God didn't give the law to arm the devil, but the devil knowing that the law was against man, took advantage of it and has been using it against man. the law always condemns ( LAWS IS HOLY, BUT CANNOT MAKE YOU HOLY) and keeps man away from God ( SO FAR AWAY FROM GOD THAT THEY ARE BLIND TO EVEN KILL OTHER PEOPLE AND CLAIM IT IS THE WILL FROM GOD). Hence the devil uses it as his weapon to further alienate man from God. that is why when God nailed the law to the cross, He made a public spectacle of the devil and all the power of darkness. Once the law was nailed to the cross of Jesus, God knew that the law no longer had the power to condemn manas long as he believed on Jesus.

I sincerely pray that you can see the truth in the Bible.

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written by Michael Soh, January 14, 2008 22:01:08
Dear Mimag 2005,

I am glad you quote the follwing bible verses.

Matt Ch 7 : 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME ? AND IN THY NAME HAVE WE CAST OUT DEVILS ? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS ?
23 AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU…..DEPART FROM ME ! YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

Which lead me to ask , do you really understand bible? Are you a Christian? It makes me wonder if you took the time to find out what was Jesus saying when He refers to …”DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER?”

I suggest we let bible interpret bible. Search the scripture to find out what WILL was Jesus referring to. Let us go to Hebrew Chapter 10

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

(Heb 10:1 to 6 explain about the law is not perfect. It is only a show of good things to come.)

Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) TO DO THY WILL, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come TO DO THY WILL, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Notice, Jesus comes TO DO THY WILL, O God (see verse 7 and 9 above) which is = to take away the first, that He may establish the SECOND. To DO Thy Will OF GOD is to replace the old covenant with a new covenant. You beautifully quote Matt 7:21-23 You read but do not see. How sad. Jesus mission is to do God’s will. To died and He is not cheap. Jesus is the Son of God. Salvation is heavily paid with His Body hanging at the TREE.

I pray you see the TRUTH that will set you free.

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written by rahulian, January 15, 2008 01:05:49
RPK,

Do you consider your self as a Malay or a Bugis? Or does that mean the same thing. The reason I'm asking is that if you are a Malay (which I believe are people from the Sumatra region) then according to the Constituiton, you have certain rights and priviledges but if you are Bugis, then you might come under the others category and not be able to claim those special rights. I know I'm a Malaysian of Indian origin but what are you? Should an Malaysian of Indian origin who is a Muslim be given that special priviledges? I don't know but it is still some fruit for thought as the definition of a Malay under our Federal Constituition seems a little bit ambigious. Don't you agree?

I'm not questioning Islam but the way it is being politicised and used for the benefits of thge priviled few. I just hope you are not one of them.
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written by mimag2005, January 15, 2008 02:11:52
written by Michael Soh, January 14, 2008 | 21:45:03

……..” JESUS HAS TO LEAVE IN ORDER THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN COME TO US “…….
.................................................................

……Also see Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:3 For what the LAW COULD NOT DO, in that it was WEAK THROUGH THE FLESS, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: ………….

………..THUS JESUS MISSION IS ALREADY DONE !! …………

………..Also read Col 2:14 having wiped out the HANDWRITING OF REQUIREMENTS that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of he way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it……….


written by Michael Soh, January 13, 2008 | 21:51:03

How you quote bible verses is very dangerous. You seem to cherry pick and simply apply the words to
....................................
situation.
..............................


Michael, for once I fully agree with you that…..

…… cherry picking is very dangerous WHEN ONE WANTS TO GIVE A MISLEADING ACCOUNT !!...

Michael wrote .. JESUS HAS TO LEAVE IN ORDER THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN COME TO US…….

So any sober, rational thinking person will have at least the following questions to ask ?

01). Where was the Holy Spirit.. while Jesus was walking on earth ?
02) …. Where was the Holy Spirit… before the arrival of Jesus ?

Answers :

Question no 1 :

Luke Ch 2… 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: AND THE HOLY GHOST WAS UPON HIM !...

Luke Ch 3..22… AND THE HOLY GHOST DESCENDED IN A BODILY SHAPE LIKE A DOVE UPON HIM


Question No 2:

Luke Ch 1… 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; AND HE SHALL BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, even from his mother's womb

……..41 … And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; AND ELIZABETH WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST:

……..67…. And his father Zechari'ah WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST…….

For clarity of mind and sight I shall repeat my earlier posting :

written by mimag2005, January 06, 2008 | 16:50:32

07) Has Jesus got anything to say about this last Prophet ?.... Lets go to….

John Ch 16 : 7, 12-14

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

13. Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for HE shall not speak of HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak: and HE will show you things to come. 14. HE shall glorify me: for HE shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.

-In one passage Jesus has stressed the common pronoun “ HE ” …. 8 TIMES !......

-WHY ???........... Because “HE” is a MAN….. A MAN of FLESH AND BONES …. LIKE JESUS, LIKE EARLIER ISRAELITE PROPHETS !!

-I don’t think theres another passage in the bible which stress the pronoun “ HE”
……. 8 TIMES… (Michael , please correct me if I am wrong )

Dear Michael,

For the benefit of other bloggers please expound on these 2 words found in the Greek Bible … ANOTHER COMFORTER as in…..

John Ch 14 :

… 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER COMFORTER , that he may abide with you for ever;

Dear Dear Michael,

IF WE ARE COMMUNICATING IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ……..I reiterate my FULL AGREEMENT AND SUPPORT ON YOUR WRITTEN WARNINGS :

“ How you quote bible verses is very dangerous. You seem to cherry pick and simply apply the words to situation “.

May the………………..

“ ONE , INDIVISIBLE, TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD SHED SOME LIGHT IN YOUR INNER TEMPLE “


Amen !


………………

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written by mimag2005, January 15, 2008 02:51:32
written by Michael Soh, January 14, 2008 | 22:01:08

Dear Mimag 2005,

I am glad you quote the follwing bible verses.

Matt Ch 7 : 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME ? AND IN THY NAME HAVE WE CAST OUT DEVILS ? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS ?
23 AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU…..DEPART FROM ME ! YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

Which lead me to ask , do you really understand bible? Are you a Christian? It makes me wonder if you took the time to find out what was Jesus saying when He refers to …”DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER?”

I suggest we let bible interpret bible. Search the scripture to find out what WILL was Jesus referring to. Let us go to Hebrew Chapter 10
....................................

Dear Michael,

It seems we are coming from 2 different horizons.

I want to ask you.... ARE YOU FOLLOWER OF PAUL ????.... OR ARE YOU FOLLOWER OF JESUS THE MESSIAH ???....

..As you are aware that PAUL IS THE FOUNDER OF "TRINITARIAN " CHRISTIANITY .. NOT JESUS THE MESSIAH !!

AS FOR ME ... I AM THE FOLLOWER AND BELIEVER OF JESUS THE MESSIAH AND HIS TEACHINGS THAT THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS " GOD IS ONE "... HIS REAFFIRMATION OF THE OLD PROPHECY OF THE COMING OF ANOTHER HUMAN PROPHET... ".....Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for HE shall not speak of HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak: and HE will show you things to come. 14. HE shall glorify me: for HE shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. ....ETC


Peace !

..........
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written by Admiral Tojo, January 15, 2008 18:32:06
Try this for size,

1 Be kind to your parents
2 Be kind to the orphans
3 Do not cheat
4 Do not lie
5 Do not kill
6 Do not corrupt the Earth
7 Be equitable when you trade
etc etc etc

Now do you need a religion to know ALL of these and many more? These values are all preprogrammed in your BIOS. When you reboot every morning, your OS (Operating System) would already recognize these values, unless of course it is already corrupted.

Quote: " With or without religion, good men will be doing good things and bad men will be doing bad things. However, it takes religion for good men to be doing bad things."

Still confused????

Shalom


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written by Michael Soh, January 15, 2008 23:59:12
Hi Mimag 2005,

beleum minum teh tarik lagi lah. Boleh jum minum? Mana? and bila?

Mimag,

In Greek bible there are several different "he" used through out the bible. Holy Ghost cannot dwell in any tom dick and harry before Christ was crucified. Only a few devout and just believers like Simeon, Elizabert, Mary etc etc are fill with Holy Ghost. Filty rag sinners like me cannot receive the Holy Ghost unless Jesus was nail to the TREE. When that happen, the veil at the holiest of holiest was torn apart. Signifying God no longer can only be approach by the high priest that are just, devout and holy once a year. God can be approach bodly as we are now or anytime. He has send the Holy Spirit to dwelt inside us even if we are filthy rags of sinners today.

Just to give you some examples of "he" that means the same in ENGLISH but is totally different in GREEK.

EXAMPLE 1
In Mat 1:20 "he" was use to refer to Joseph
αὐτός pronous as "autos" means
From the particle αὖ au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind; backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the compound of) of the third person, and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: - her, it (-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, ([self-], the) same, ([him-, my-, thy-]) self, [your-] selves, she, that, their (-s), them ([-selves]), there [-at, -by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with], they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which.

EXAMPLE 2
In Mark 1:45 "He" was use to refer to the leprosy man heal by Jesus
ὁ, ἡ, τό pronounce as "ho hē to"
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

EXAMPLE 3
But in John 16:12-14 quoted by you, "He" was used to refer to the Holy Spirit
ἐκεῖνος pronounce as "ekeinos"
means; that one (or [neuter] thing); often intensified by the article prefixed: - he, it, the other (same), selfsame, that (same, very), X their, X them, they, this, those.

This third "HE" refers to a third person of the same with the person speaking the word "He". Wow! Isn't GREEK language so beautiful. (Imagine, water evaporates to steam, both water and steam are of the same composition H20. So is ice. Ice is also made of H20) GREEK language makes things so clear and crisp. It clears a lot of confusion that you have created and mislead so many young believers. Ehh! (with a tone of sadness), will you fall into the category......"Go AWAY Iknow you not". You do not do My Father's Will..........the will to replace the old covenant with a new covenant. The will that Jesus has to died at the cross and make everyone that believes in Him righteous by gift(Rom5:17) and holy, santified (Heb10:10) once and for all.........so sanctified clean that the Holy Spirit can dwell in each and every one that receive Him. To make this happen, Jesus must die at the Cross to pay for the sins that man commit. Once dead, Holy Spirit ( which is of the same make/composition like Jesus) can come into each of us who believe in Jesus. If Jesus is alive and not nail to the cross, He did not pay for our sins. God will not be a righteous God to let mankind off the hook. Someone must die to take our place. Fortunate we have Jesus doing that role.

Bila nak minum teh tarik ni?

michael soh
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written by mimag2005, January 16, 2008 02:15:58
Hi Mikey,

Good evening !

01) How are you ? are you feeling ok ? Im really concern for you ? ….

You want to know why ?.........

written by Michael Soh, January 15, 2008 | 23:59:12

1ST para line 3…. You wrote……….Jesus was NAIL to the TREE
last para line 7…. You wrote………Jesus must DIE at the CROSS
written by Michael Soh, January 09, 2008 | 00:59:58
2ND last para 2nd line ……You wrote…...He was HUNG at the TREE
…………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦

....was Jesus NAILED to the TREE…. ….OR
.... Jesus DIED at the CROSS………….. OR
....was Jesus HUNG at the TREE…?????

C’mon lah Brother… what ! you want to better Cosmic’s with a TRIPLE JEOPARDY eh!

Tolong lah brother… saya minta you tolong banyak2….consistent lah sikit…..

Such glaring inconsistencies will most certainly mislead and create confusion amongst your young innocent “flock “ !!…..

Now coming back to the subject…

In your example 3…..

…. This third "HE" refers to a third person of the same with the person speaking the word "He".
…………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦.

When Jesus uttered those words to his flock ……was he already dead and in “ SPIRIT FORM “

or…he wasn’t caught yet and as such was still in PHYSICAL, FLESH AND BONE FORM ……???.

02) Dear Michael,

For the benefit of your innocent & young flock …..please also expound on these 2 words found in the Greek Bible …

a) ANOTHER
b) COMFORTER

as in….. John Ch 14 : … 16

…..And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER COMFORTER , that he may abide with you for ever;


03) Will you be free next week for an inspiring evening with skynnard’s southern rock ?



simple man !


............
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written by Michael Soh, January 16, 2008 16:53:38
Hi Mimag,

I wrote CROSS as I am typing at a fast speed. But I have made it clear in my earlier explanation, TREE for believers. CROSS for non believers. The soldiers and pharasees who mock Jesus call it CROSS.

Another and Comforter must be read together. Jointly! Another Comforter is a role. Not talking about person or make or material composition. (Try this as a comparison, defender Manchester player but I now pray that Club Manager will a strong attacking forward for Manchester United. The supporters of Manchester Uniter was comforting to know that have a good strong defender. Now the Club Manage is saying He will send the same player, a Manchester Uniter Player, but as the forward attacking player. Both are the same player and both are Manchester United but the attacking role adopts a different approach but yet the aim is the same, win for Manchester United) This "Another Comforter" that can abide in you. Stay with you. Stay inside you. It is the same Jesus material(like the H2O comparison). At the time these words were utter by Jesus, He cannot be with each and everyone of us. But the same Jesus (like the H2O) in a different role can abide in everyone of us at the same time. People see JESUS walking on surface of planet earth as one physical guy. A Man physically limited to be at one place at one time.


I am for teh tarik. Skynnard soutnern rock not so familiar, but it is going to be mypleasure to meet you.
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written by mimag2005, January 16, 2008 19:11:47
Mikey,

01) Was Jesus NAILED to the tree?.. or was Jesus HUNG at the tree?... or was Jesus DIEDED at the cross?

02) i notice your perspectives on several issues are amazingly multi dimensional that transcends from
the lower chakras....piercing thru the astral and even ......beyond the causal plains!!!

..please come back to earth...in plain simple english .." say what you mean..mean what you say ".

03) A bit tied now.. will prepare my version for ANOTHER and COMFORTER later.

04) Meeting is on. If u unfamiliar with skynnard's southern rock, what about blues or jazz ?

Estalavista !!

......
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written by mimag2005, January 17, 2008 02:09:29
Hi Mickey,

baru balik.. banyak penat... ada OT sikit... bo pian ai tan chiak !

i try to prepare my version for another and comforter... that is if i dont fall asleep.

mtime you said you read the bible many times over.... so why cant you quote me at least ONE PROPHECY
in the Old Testament prophecising Jesus RESURRECTION !

If my 486 memory serve me welll, THERE IS NO SUCH PROPAHECY IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECUISING JESUS RESURRECTION.

THIS RESURRECTIONN BIZ IS THE FABRICATION OF YOU SAUL OR PAUL. I PREFER TO LABEL HIM THE 13TH SELF APPOINTED APOSTLE ( U KNOW ABOUT FRIDAY THE 13TH).

IF U DO COME ACROSS SUCH PROPHECY ABOUT JESUS RESURERECTION IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PLS SHARE.

IF YOU ARE SILENT GURU....THAT MEANS NO SUCH POPHECY. T


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 17, 2008 19:17:18
Dear Michael, Thank you for your explanation on Another and Comforter...
My version as follows :- COMFORTER means PARACALON in Greek, ... ADVOCATE means PARAKLYTOS in Greek
ANOTHER- There are 2 kinds of another in the Greek language i.e. ALLOS means A SPECIFIC Another and HETEROS means A GENERAL Another...e.g. aa) you have a Rolex watch. It got stolen. You want to buy ANOTHER ROLEX watch.You say my Rolex watch got stolen… I want to buy a ALLOS watch....bb) If just ANY WATCH.. you say……I want to buy a HETEROS watch....

Lets stroll down the Holy Bible…(WORDS IN BRACKETS ARE MENTIONED IN THE GREEK BIBLE…)
1 John Ch 2 : 1… My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE ( PARAKLYTOS) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
John Ch 14 : 16…. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER (ALLOS) COMFORTER ( PARAKLYTOS), that he may abide with you for ever;
… We see PARAKLYTOS used in Greek Bible for both verses. …In the case of Jesus, the translators translated correctly PARAKLYTOS to mean ADVOCATE…,while for the other PARAKLYTOS to meanCOMFORTER..Why 2 different translations for the SAME GREEK word “PARAKLYTOS”??. …
...Michael, According to you the Greek word for Holy Spirit is pneum (pnyoo’-mah))....means Divine God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: -holy ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.
…. Notice the word “ALLOS” … was used in the Greek Bible…… AND…..not ….“PNEUM”…!!!????
How did “ALLOS“ -A SPECIFIC ANOTHER i.e. PHYSICAL FORM became ‘ A SPIRIT FORM…???“
Jesus often lamented about his elected disciples lack of understanding as in…Matt Ch 15 : 16.. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?MattCh16:8 Oye of little faith,LukeCh825,Ch9:41 etc To ensure his elected disciples DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ABOUT HIS SUCCESSOR,he again mentioned him in MORE CLEARER TERMS giving HIS GENDER, HIS AUTHORITY, HIS ROLE ETC ETC ……….as in …..
John Ch 16 : 7...Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter (PARAKLYTOS) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you...12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.13. Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for HE shall not speak of HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall HEAR (AKOUO) , that shall HE speak (LALEO) : and HE will show you things to come. 14. HE shall glorify me: for HE shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.

-In one passage Jesus STRESSED the pronoun “ HE ” …. 8 TIMES!...-WHY ??..Bcuz Jesus speaking in ‘PLAIN, CLEAR LANGUAGE”. "HE” is a MAN of FLESH AND BONES …. LIKE JESUS, LIKE EARLIER ISRAELITE PROPHETS !! –
…………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..
HEAR – AKOUO (AK-OO’-O) meaning to perceive sounds…. Given us “acoustics”.. the science of sounds.
LALEO - Greek verb specific meaning “ to speak “ and general meaning ‘ to emit sounds.
Dear Michael, 01) Does Holy Spirit “ speak “ or “ inspire “ ?? 02) Does the TRINITARIAN Holy Spirit God need to HEAR from GOD…??03)Inspite of these evidences,you still persist it's the TRINITARIAN
“Holy Spirit “ GODHOOD …… then…, please state - for last 2000 years what new laws have the TRINITARIAN GOD brought to this world?..- what new things have the TRINITARIAN GOD taught to the people that Jesus and the other Israelite Prophets havn’t ?....- What solutions have the TRINITARIAN “ GOD brought to solve the present day “sickness “ engulfing the world and her Environment ?
Basing on the above account…. IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR WORDS WERE DELIBERATELY MANIPULATED TO GIVE WRONGFUL MEANINGS.
…….As SEEKERS OF TRUTH…, we must ask ourselves who is this PARAKLYTOS Jesus is talking aboutand was HE foretold in the Scriptures ????

To answer these questions we go to : John Ch 1 : 19 /21,25....19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Eli'jah ? And he saith,I am not. Art thou that Prophet (*) ? And he answered, No….
……25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Eli'jah, neither that Prophet?
Deutronomy Ch 18 : 18/19 ( Prophet ) 18 I will raise them up a Prophet (*) from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Isaiah 29 : 12 and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned (*) !! (*) who is this FINAL PROPHET…… ?
Has CHRISTIANDOM, found a suitable candidate to fulfil all the above mentioned prophesies ???
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written by mimag2005, January 18, 2008 17:05:03
Hi Mr Michael Soh,

While in your multi dimensional rocket , burning cryogenic hydrogen thru the causal & astrals’ to return to earth, please find some time to reflect on this term “ conditional “ for the following :-

John Ch 16 : 7...Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: FOR IF I GO NOT AWAY, THE COMFORTER WILL NOT COME UNTO YOU: BUT IF I DEPART, I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU….. but if I depart, I will send him unto you...

written by Michael Soh, January 14, 2008 | 21:45:03
Hi Mimag2005.

Your quote bible verse John 16:7,12/14 which refers to the Holy Spirit...........
Jesus has to leave in order that the Holy Spirit can come to us.
.................................................................

Bon voyage !


.........
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written by mimag2005, January 18, 2008 21:33:24
Hi Mikey,

written by Michael Soh, January 15, 2008 | 23:59:12

01)You wrote……GREEK language makes things so clear and crisp. It clears a lot of confusion that you have created and mislead so many young believers.

Are you THE Shepard to these many young believers or “flock “ ?

02)Are you a Pastor ?

... you definitely not a Priest nor a Catholic because they believe in 73 books… while you claim your bible of
66 books is the complete bible.

Either way, its just fine with me whether you are a Pastor or a Learned Person in Bible Studies.

In fact I must give you credit for holding your fort this long with continuous flow of bible quotations and interpretations
unlike the engagements of earlier Christian erudites.


Having stated the above, no need to rush home.

Lets go into ‘ retreat ‘ till such time you cud ‘ hear ‘ then… ‘ speak ‘



Cheers !
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written by mimag2005, January 18, 2008 23:59:57
Hi Mikey,

While you are in retreat mode, please seriously consider the following :

01)To the best of my understanding …

……...In the Old Testament there is NOT EVEN ONE PROPHECY on Jesus RESURRECTION.!!

WHY ?????....................

This RESURRECTION…. will save ALL 1.8 BILLION CHRISTIAN SOULS.. am I right ???

Such a MOMENTOUS EVENT… WHY NOT ONE PROPHECY IN THE OLD SCRIPTURES …???

Brother Mike,

You know or not that … Even a simple action that Jesus did like ….. SITTING ON AN ASS WAS FORETOLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT …

…..and ALL FOUR GOSPELS RECORDED THIS EVENT

Zech Ch 9 : 9… Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

John 12 : 14…. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,…

Matt Ch 21 : 5 .. Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting
upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Luke 19 : 35…And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.

Mark Ch 11 : 7…. And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him

If the Old Testament COULD FORETELL ABOUT JESUS SITTING ON AN ASS AND……..
…… HAVE NOT EVEN ONE (1) PROPHECY ON JESUS RESURRECTION…..


We both have to AGREE TO AGREE ….this is serious because……. the MAIN PILLAR OF PAULINE CHRISTIANITY IS BASED ON….

1 Corinthians 15:14…

… And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

….that means ……

..NO RESURRECTION.. . NO HOLY TRINITY.. . NO CHRISTIANITY……. !!…


Brother Mike,

I really , really envy you…. 1.8 BILLION SOULS ARE DEPENDENT ON YOU !! ….


………………
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written by Anak Desa, January 19, 2008 14:05:43
Lord create this world for Adam and Eve. He didnt say which religion to pray.But humans creates religion to have an authority over their community.What humans accomplished... he saw birds and create aeroplanes,he heard sounds and creates radio and so forth.
When will the humans really understands their purpose of birth in this world and why they are born to the present parents??
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written by mimag2005, January 19, 2008 21:46:23
written by Anak Desa, January 19, 2008 | 14:05:43

Lord create this world for Adam and Eve. He didnt say which religion to pray.But humans creates religion to have an authority over their community
...................................................

Hello My Friend Anak Desa....

For security reasons its best to keep the empty store locked.

Cheers !
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written by mimag2005, January 20, 2008 00:34:59
Hi Michael,

How are you ? Busy eh…?

01) RESURRECTION – Old Testament – 39 BOOKS

How …? Have you found ONE PROPHECY ON “RESURRECTION” IN OLD TESTAMENT ? ... NO SUCCESS YET ah ??

-I can understand... very tedious indeed for you to cover 39 books…

Ok lah ! tak pah…. Forget it… just chill out man ..

02) …Besok tolong chek … … less tedious… ONLY 27 BOOKS……..BUT..

…………MORE……….. “ CENTRAL “ ………… THAN……..” RESURRECTION “ !!!

Please show where the WORD “ TRINITY “ mentioned in NEW TESTAMENT ???

Am I right or not…. that………

……..” TRINITY IS THE CENTRAL FAITH FOR PAULINE CHRISTIANITY “….

This word ” TRINITY “ SURELY MUST HAVE IN BIBLE…...CORRECT ?????????



03) How teh tarek next Wednesday ok with you ? time 2000/2100 bangsar ?


Stay Cool man !

......
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written by mimag2005, January 20, 2008 01:12:03
Hi Mikey,

I just realised that I too have some thing common with my 1.8 BILLION CHRISTIAN BROTHERHOOD...

You know what.....


These 1.8 BILLION BROTHERS OF MINE HAVE " BLIND FAITH "

I too am a fan of " BLIND FAITH ".... MY FAVOURITES ... "IN THE PRESENCE OF OUR LORD "....AND

.............. " CAN'T FIND MY WAY HOME ".

How ironic !

Cheers !


.....
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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 02:20:24
Hi Mimag 2005,

Sorry, not on retreat mode. I have to do some travelling since last Thursday and when I travel, most of the time, I do not lock into the net. Just got back from Jakarta. Wow, you do write a lot.

So you are a Christian ( reading from your text above), except that you do not believe in Paul. You subcribe to the teaching of Jesus. Am I correct to say you do not believe in the threeness of Godhead ( trinity doctrine)

I will try to answer as much as I can but I am tired and need some rest. I will commit to reply to all your questions. But pelahan lahan........ada free time, I will write

Let start with the major one, Jesus was resurrected and is now sitting on the right hand of God.
Old testament prophecy

Bible passage: In Psalm 16:10-11, the Bible talks of God's refusal to let His "Holy One" remain in a grave after death. This Psalm is believed to have been written about 1000 years before Jesus was born. New Testament writers believed that this Psalm foreshadowed the death and resurrection of Jesus. Resurrection means "brought back to life." There are several reports in the New Testament that say that Jesus was killed and placed in a tomb, but that God brought Jesus back to life a few days later. (See Matthew 28:5-8, Mark 16:5-6, Luke 24:1-7, or John 20:1-18 all these are the gosple that are not written by PAUL or influence by Paul. IF YOU BELEIVE IN THE TEACHING OF JESUS, YOU SHOULD ACCEPT ALL THIS FOUR BOOKS OF THE GOSPEL = MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE AND JOHN)

Psalm 16:10-11: because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

On the Day of Pentecost, when Peter (NOTICE PETER NOT PAUL) preached the first Gospel sermon, he boldly asserted that God had raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 2:24). He then explained that God had performed this miraculous deed in fulfillment of David’s prophecy in Psalm 16. In fact, he quoted the words of David in detail as contained in Psalm 16:8-11. Years later, Paul ( IF YOU ACCEPT PETER SERMON AT THE PENTECOSTAL, YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM ACCEPTING PAUL HERE) did the same thing when he spoke to the Jews of Antioch in Pisidia. Like Peter, he declared that God had raised Jesus from the dead in fulfillment of Psalm 16:10 (Acts 13: 33-35).


Have you ever occur to you, that God's prophecy will be fulfill even if man try to stop it. His wisdom is beyoung us. Soldiers was send to guard the tomb to make sure that his resurrection will not take place. Why do they send soldiers when He is already dead. Was his body stolen.

Have you ever occur to you if prophecy is written clearly for the non believers ( like you) , the devil would have pick it out in the old testament and mount a counter plan to make sure Jesus is not harm. The devil is working hard to put Christ at the tree, without knowing that it is thru' His death at the tree that will allow God to righteously disarm the devil. Old Testament prophecy also found in Jonah, but only reveal when it is link to the Gospel by Jesus himself. It is not directly spell out. If it is clearly spell out, the devil would have stop Jesus from nail to the tree.
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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 02:22:55
Mimag 2005,

The resurrection of the Messiah is also found in another of David’s psalms — namely Psalm 22. The first eighteen verses of this incredible psalm describe the suffering of the Messiah in vivid detail, even mentioning the nature of His death: "They pierced my hands and my feet" (Psalm 22:16). Then, in verses 19-21, the suffering Savior prays for deliverance "from the lion’s mouth" (a metaphor for Satan). This desperate prayer is then followed immediately in verses 22-24 by a hymn of praise in which the Messiah thanks God for hearing His prayer and delivering Him. The resurrection of the Messiah is clearly explain between the ending of the prayer in verse 21 and the beginning of the praise song in verse 22.

The resurrection is spoken of more pointedly in Isaiah’s famous "Suffering Savior" passage in Isaiah 53. After prophesying that the Savior would suffer for our sins and then be "cut off out of the land of the living," Isaiah states that He "will see His offspring" and that God the Father will "prolong His days" (Isaiah 53:5, 8 & 10). Isaiah proceeds to reaffirm the promise of the resurrection in that Jesus will see Light and be Satisfied: "As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see light and be satisfied . . ." (Isaiah 53:11).

Why is Mimag 2005 get all hang up with Old Testament and ignore all the New Testament verses explaining the resurrection of Christ? You did say you believe in Christ.............He himself shared that he will rebuild the temple in 3 days.


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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 02:24:41
Mimag 2005,

Ok with teh tarik on Wed in Bangsar. And no I am not a pastor.

see you soon.
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written by temenggong, January 20, 2008 11:07:50
I too know of no prophecies on resurrection in the bible. Those are the tales of the living and grateful dead.

Dear friends, god is closer to you than your jugular vein, the kingdom of god is within you, seek (the kingdom of god within), knock (the kingdom of god within) and it shall open, and then you too, like millions before you, shall declare, I and my father are one!

If one is searching for god anywhere outside oneself, in the mosques, churches, in the book, in saints, in gospels, in piety, in mind constructs, in prophecies, in saviours, then one is lost in the dungeons of hell. Because anywhere outside one's self, outside the kingdom of god, IS hell!

The kingdom of god is within all of us at this very moment. No need to go here and there to find it. This makes any convert the utterest stupid person, an openly self-declaring idiot, who hadn't a clue! Idiots of the world, go within!

Sorry to interrupt.
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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 21:21:27
The word Trinity is not found in the Bible, but the doctrine is. ( The word Bible is also not found in the Bible, does that mean the truth of the Bible is not found in the Bible?) Basically, the Bible teaches us that there is one God by nature who has been revealed in three distinct persons known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Trinity in the Bible?

In determining if the Trinity is Biblical we must examine what the Bible reveals about the identity of who God is. For people this is hard, but if we are going to be honest we must set aside our personal thoughts.

The Bible teaches that there is only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:22)

The Bibles teaches that there is one who is called the Father and is identified as being God. (1 Peter 1:2)

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called Jesus and is identified as being God. (John 1:1-3&14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20)

The Bible teaches that there is one who is called the Holy Spirit and is identified as being God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-1smilies/cool.gif

The above points and Scriptures clearly point out that there is only one God from eternity who has been revealed as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

What are some of the wrong assumptions or misrepresentations of the Trinity?

A. The Trinity is false because it makes no sense.
The Trinity is not false and the Trinity makes logical sense. Just because our minds or thoughts do not comprehend the eternal nature of God does not make it wrong or false. For example, the Bible states God is from everlasting to everlasting, that God is all-knowing, etc, but does anyone fully comprehend those things? I would submit to you, no, no one fully understands those things and at times for some people they don't make sense. There are many things in the Bible that are true but we may not understand them, but that does not make it untrue.

B. The Trinity cannot be true since the word Trinity is found no where in the Bible.
The excuse or reasoning that the word Trinity is not in the Bible is not reasonable. The word Bible is not found in English Bibles either, but does that mean the truth of the Bible is not found in the Bible? We base our faith or beliefs in something that is taught in the Bible, not necessary a particular word.


C. The Trinity is three gods.
The Trinity is not three gods and that is a misrepresentation of what Christians believe. Christians believe that there is one God by nature revealed through three distinct persons. No Christian believes in three gods and to state this is to give a false witness.

D. The Trinity is a man made doctrine and is not Scriptural.
Those who say the Trinity is a man made doctrine do not understand the issues. Any doctrine we have from the Bible came from revelation from God to man, therefore doctrines are taught from man. (see Matthew 3:16-17, Matthew 28:19, John14:16-17) Those who object the Trinity say the Trinity is not Biblical, but the problem is that they have not taken the time to examine the Trinity from what the Scriptures teach.

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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 21:27:39
Dear Mimag 2005

The word false has various meanings: "not genuine, not real, incorrect, deceptive", these are just some of them. To say the Trinity is false is to say a few things.

1. To say the Trinity is false is to say the Bible does not teach the doctrine.
2. To say the Trinity is false is to say God has limitations.
3. To say the Trinity is false is to say I know more than what the inspired writers wrote concerning the identification of God.

In response to these claims we must be open minded, seeking the Bible for spiritual guidance, and adjusting our thinking to Biblical thinking even if we do not understand things completely. The Bible clearly teaches that there is one God and there are no others. (Isaiah 43:10) The Bible clearly teaches that all other so called god/gods are not true or genuine. (1 Corinthians 8:5, Galatians 4:smilies/cool.gif The Bible clearly teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. (Galatians 1:1, John 1:1-3&14, Hebrews 10:15-1smilies/cool.gif Some say, "God can not be three persons and still be the one God", but that is not the case in our every day normal lives. The Bible teaches there is one Church, one body of Christ, but within this one Church there are many members (persons) and we have no problems with that. The Bible teaches that the man and the woman would be "one flesh" in Genesis 2:24 and we have no problems with that. The word for "one" in Genesis 2:24 is the Hebrew word "echad" which means a compound unity.

Normal things in our lives are three in one and we have no problems with them. Things like water being gas, solid, and liquid yet all one substance. Things like a piece of fruit: "Fruits vary widely in physical appearance, but their basic structure is the same. The ripened ovary wall that forms the fruit is composed of three layers, which can be thick or thin, dry or moist, fused or separate. The outermost layer is called the exocarp; the middle layer is the mesocarp; and the inner layer, the endocarp. These three regions together are called the pericarp. A peach that has been cut in half clearly reveals these layers: the soft, fuzzy skin is the exocarp, the juicy, meaty part of the peach is the mesocarp, and the pit, which encases the seed, is the endocarp." If things that are created can be three in one, than why do people insist the Almighty cannot? Even our Kopi, Milo, Cereal, Teh all has three in one. ( Where do we meet in Bangsar? Banyak teh tarik stalls)

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written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 21:37:17
Mimag 2005,

Chill out ............and read this from the OT

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

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written by mimag2005, January 20, 2008 23:32:05
Hi Mikey
Welcome back !
Had a good rest ? If still capek.. minum Brand’s Essence..

i oso baru balik,, penat.. sudah tua apa buat...

…………….RESURRECTION………….!!!

01) As per your Brotherly request, I opened up Psalm Ch !6, Ch 22 and Isaiah Ch 53.
I checked and didn’t find any passage which such clear prophecy on Resurrection …e.g. ......,

......Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King .. named Jesus… the only begotten son….will be nailed to the cross… to die for MANKIND … and clean us of our sins… and will be resurrected on the third day.. so as to complete God’s plan….......

……You know a prophecy something like the above… very clear… leaves no room for anyone with hyper imagination to run wild.

…..I mean.. cmon,, a simple action Jesus did like .. SITTING ON AN ASS…. was prophesied in CRYSTAL CLEAR LANGUAGE .!!!!.

Betul tak Mike… you didn’t have to use your multi dimensional formula of water, ice and steam to confirm that the rider sitting on an ass was……. Jesus….!!

Now for a MAJOR EVENT LIKE THE RESURRECTION……..SURELY THERE MUST BE AT LEAST ONE.. ( 1 ) PROPHECY , PROPHESYING IN CRYSTAL CLEAR TERMS SIMILAR TO ………………THE “ SITTING ON ASS “ ………PROPHESY… !!!

Brother Mike,… 1.8 BILLION CHRISTIAN SOULS.. AND COUNTING…. ARE DEPENDING AND HOPING THAT THIS MAJOR EVENT DID TAKE PLACE 2000 YEARS AGO !!!!

WHY IS THE OLD TESTAMENT… AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF 39 BOOKS…. SILENT ABOUT THIS RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY???

Unless it did not happen???????..........

THIS IS SERIOUS BROTHER.

WE HAVE TO STOP ASSING AROUND….. WE GOT TO BE REAL !!!!.... I MEAN REAL!... REAL !!!!!..........

Otherwise we KENA ASSED when we go meet our MAKER !!!!!



.................
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written by mimag2005, January 20, 2008 23:50:01
written by temenggong, January 20, 2008 | 11:07:50

I too know of no prophecies on resurrection in the bible. Those are the tales of the living and .......grateful dead.
.............


Hi Temenggong,

u mean.... regretful dead.... ???


Hello Christian Brotherhood,

Have you heard of the Revised Standard version (RSV ) .. i think 1971 edition.

Please go get a copy.....

You know John 3:16... For God so loved the world that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son.....

... BEGOTTEN GOT THROWN OUT.. becasue some wise guys put it in the MAIN BIBLE...and it becomes GOD INSPIRED WORDS.....

... ALSO THEY LADY CAUGHT IN ADULTERY,, WHERE JESUS SAID,, HE WHO HAVE NO SIN BE THE FIRST TO CAST THE STONE.... SAME STORY...

There are many, many more.

Please go get a copy and know what you are following.

Gaod Bless ALL f YOU !!!


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 00:29:21
Dear Brother Mike,


I request you to please stop for a moment, sit.. if possible on a recliner...... burn tobacco( im a pipe smoker)…. Inhale… then exhale… then follow the movement of the smoke… till it disappears before your very eyes….

......… where did the smoke go....... ??????………


Comprendo ?...

ALLEILUI YAH !

………………
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 01:28:50
written by Michael Soh, January 20, 2008 | 21:21:27


01)The word Trinity is not found in the Bible, but the doctrine is..
02)…… does that mean the truth of the Bible is not found in the Bible…..?

Dear Brother Mike,

01)Thank you for confirming that THE WORD “ TRINITY “ is not found in the Bible. TRINITY WORSHIP IS THE MAIN, CENTRAL OF PAULINE CHRISTIANITY…!!!!

02)In the Bible contains the following :
a)Word of God
b)Words of a Prophet of God
c)Words of a Historian…..etc

TFORE ONLY A PART OF THE BIBLE CONTAIN GOD’s WORDS… NOT THE WHOLE BIBLE !!!

… You have to read it up yourself to separate the wheat from the….. chaff !!!

I give you an example.

I am going to quote 2 Kings Ch 19 Verse 1 to 37……… BUT …… I WANT YOU TO OPEN UP YOUR BIBLE AND GO TO ISAIAH CH 37….

PLS ASK YOUR LOVED ONE TO READ FROM THE COMPUTER WHILE YOU FOLLOW FROM YOUR BIBLE ….


2 KINGS CH 19

1And it came to pass, when king Hezeki'ah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD.

2 And he sent Eli'akim, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.

3. And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezeki'ah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth

.4. It may be the LORD thy God will hear all the words of Rab–sha'keh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are left.

5. So the servants of king Hezeki'ah came to Isaiah.

6. And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say to your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumor, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

8 So Rab–sha'keh returned, and found the king of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed from Lachish.

9. And when he heard say of Tirha'kah king of Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee; he sent messengers again unto Hezeki'ah, saying,

10. Thus shall ye speak to Hezeki'ah king of Judah, saying, Let not thy God in whom thou trustest deceive thee, saying, Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria.

11. Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands, by destroying them utterly: and shalt thou be delivered?

12. Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the children of Eden which were in Thelas'ar?

13.. Where is the king of Hamath, and the king of Arpad, and the king of the city of Sepharva'im, of Hena, and Ivah?

14 And Hezeki'ah received the letter of the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezeki'ah went up into the house of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD.

15 And Hezeki'ah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubim, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

16. LORD, bow down thine ear, and hear: open, LORD, thine eyes, and see: and hear the words of Sennach'erib, which hath sent him to reproach the living God.

17. Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria have destroyed the nations and their lands

,18. and have cast their gods into the fire: for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.

19. Now therefore, O LORD our God, I beseech thee, save thou us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD God, even thou only.

20. Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezeki'ah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou hast prayed to me against Sennach'erib king of Assyria I have heard.

21. This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

22. Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

23. By thy messengers thou hast reproached the Lord, and hast said, With the multitude of my chariots I am come up to the height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon, and will cut down the tall cedar trees thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and I will enter into the lodgings of his borders, and into the forest of his Carmel.
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 01:31:10
2 Kings Ch 19

24. I have digged and drunk strange waters, and with the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of besieged places.

25. Hast thou not heard long ago how I have done it, and of ancient times that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste fenced cities into ruinous heaps.

26. Therefore their inhabitants were of small power, they were dismayed and confounded; they were as the grass of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the housetops, and as corn blasted before it be grown up.

27. But I know thy abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.

28. Because thy rage against me and thy tumult is come up into mine ears, therefore I will put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest.

29. And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such things as grow of themselves, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruits thereof.

30. And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit upward.

31. For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

32. Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it.

33. By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.

34. For I will defend this city, to save it, for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.

35. And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

36. So Sennach'erib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nin'eveh.

37 And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adram'melech and Share'zer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into the land of Armenia. And Esar–had'don his son reigned in his stead.


….. IF YOU ARE CAUGHT DOING THIS IN SCHOOL, GURU BESAR WILL ROTAN YOU….!!!!

…… HOW DOES THIS CHAPTER BECOMES GOD’s INSPIRED WORDS.

….. YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD PRIEST, PASTOR… THE ONE WITH THE GENTLE VOICE IS AWARE OF THIS AND MANY MORE….!!!!


PLEASE ALNOTE THAT MOST OF THE AUTHORS FROM THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS ARE UNKNOWN.. OR ARE FROM UNCERTAIN SOURCES ETC ETC INCLUDING THE 4 GOSPELS...!!!!

May the ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD SHED SOME INNER LIGHT TO ALL OUR INNER TEMPLES


AMEN !!!!
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written by MyView, January 21, 2008 10:59:55
what Buddism or Hinduism say about this...

Hinduism too speaks the same.
Probably Brahma , Abraham and Ibrahim have something in common.
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written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 11:54:07
Hi Mimag 2005,

Sorry lah! I tak hisap rokok or pipe. I will however relax on the chair and read my bible. Thanks for the offer.

michaelsoh
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 13:17:33

Hi My View,

Good Day !

written by MyView, January 21, 2008 | 10:59:55

what Buddism or Hinduism say about this...

Hinduism too speaks the same.
Probably Brahma , Abraham and Ibrahim have something in common.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I have no doubt ALL TEACHINGS came from ONE SOURCE ONLY …. !!!.

In my earlier posting I had mentioned about the aborigines in Australia.

Their concept of the ONE, TRUE , INDIVISIBLE ALMIGHTY GOD is….

-HE HAS NO BEGINNING AND NO END
-HE HIS ALONE
-HE HAS NO FAMILY
-HE HAS NO WIFE OR CHILDREN
-HE CREATED EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE SKY
-HE DON’T NEED ANY ASSISTANT TO MANAGE HIS AFFAIRS
-HE PROVIDE FOOD FOR ALL HIS CREATION
-HE CREATED NATURE
-HE IS ABOVE NATURE
-HE DON’T NEED TO SLEEP
-HE DON’T NEED TO EAT….. SO….. NO NEED GO TOILET…


This native aborigine HAVE NOT HEARD OF Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed, Krishna, Vishnu, Buddha. Etc etc

How come his concept of the “ ONENESS “ of Almighty God is soooooo… PURE..????

…. CAN OUR GOD OR GODs’ INCLUDING “TRINITY” GOD STAND EQUAL OR MORE SUPERIOR TO HIS GOD……???????

This Aborigine man wearing “ CAWAT “ puts to shame his fellow brothers from Harvard, Oxford, Engineers, Doctors etc etc…..

In my earlier “ search “ I found a passage in the Muslim Koran which state something to this effect …

“ To each and every nation, we have sent a prophet or a warner….
So that NONE CAN STAND BEFORE ME ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT….
AND SAY HE HAS NOT HEARD OF ME !!!..... “

Dear Muslim Brothers,

Sorry if I misquote or use the wrong words. Perhaps you can assist in giving the correct quotation.. thanks.



So Brothers that is why I mentioned earlier……. WE MUST BE REAL…..

…………………..STOP ASSING AROUND !!!...................

………………….OR ELSE WE GET ASSED WHEN WE MEET OUR MAKER…..!!!!!


…………


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written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 19:12:16
Dear Mimag 2005,

Can I call you of master of divergent. You seem to come up with new things everytime and take off to a new tangen from the discussion. The topic "Good is bad and bad is good", I beleive focus on Muslim keeping the laws and the Christian not keeping to the laws. Both laws (Muslim and Christian come from the same source Moses ).

I try to show with bible verses to explain that the

A. Laws are not plan by God. It is the people who asked God for the laws. It was man who prefer to rely on their flesh performance to get blessing from God. The very first commandment " thou shall not have any other god" is what man broke when Moses comes down from Mt Sinai. The first commandment that man prouds themselve they can follow....."give us your laws, and we will follow" is the very first commandment that they fail to comply by making the gold calf as their new God. Instead of faith comes by hearing the word of God, they gave up their gold ear rings to make a calf God, Calf means labour and gold means judgment in hebrew. They choose to work to get judgement instead of faith comes from hearing the word of God

B. Before laws was given to man, God reign with his grace. Even when people were sinning, He came to rescue them. When people murmur for water,sweet water, bread, meat they instantly got what they want. NO one was killed. But when laws came into the picture, many died when they murmur against God. It tells us that God is a righteous God.

C. Law was abolished when Jesus was hung at the TREE. He cried out it is FINISHED. So is the laws.
I would like to stress that the Bible explain clearly that LAWS are holy. But it does not empower you to be holy. It only condems you. Once you feel condem, you will do anything that can be irrational to cover your condemnation. Your flesh takes opportunity from the Laws to sin more. All these are in the bible.

D. Do you think religion is bad for people. Chritian religion that preaches the richness of God's Grace that we are all saved. Does religion ( specifically Christians) create more wars? Think again. Lets look at the statistics

Total number people murdered by their own government ( that are anti Christian) in the twentiedth century - communist, socialist, fascist- equals to about 170Million people

1. USSR= 61M people murdered 1917-1987
2. Communist China = 35.2M people murdered 1949-present
3. Moa's army = 3.4M people murdered 1923-1949
4. Nazi Germanay = 20M people murdered 1932-1948
5. Communist Poland= 1.6M people murdered 1945-1948
6. Communist Cambodia= 2M people murdered 1975-1979
7. Communist Vietnam = 1.6M people murdered 1946-1974
8. Communist Yugoslavia = 1M people murdered 1944-1987
9. Anti Christian Mexican Revolution = 1.4M people murdered 1900-1920
10.Turkey = 1.8 M people murdered 1900-1018
11.Pakistan 1.5M people murdered 1958-1987

These are the people lined up against brick walls and shot , often for the crime of merely believing in God. By the rational more scientific social planners of COmmunist Russia and China or Anti Christian Mexico and Germany

As a result, ordinary people whether relious or not, might be more forgiving with their general skepticism when today's secular fundamentalists talk about the intolerance and violence of biblical religon or the people who believe in it.

In terms of raw number, which is the only kind of evidence that rationalist claim to accept, the evidence is very conclusive. Free of any moral restrain, believing that the ends justify the means, scoffing at the notion that they will ever answer to a power higher than themselves, the muderous dictators of atheistic regimes feel little hesistaiton in committing mass murder if they believe it will advance their more rational more scientific social aims.


The bible teaches us Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 20:37:23
Hi Mikey,

D. Do you think religion is bad for people. Chritian religion that preaches the richness of God's Grace that we are all saved. Does religion ( specifically Christians) create more wars? Think again.
......................................


What is the point you are trying to make….. is it religion or political ?

If you don’t mind, I wud like to add to your list the other countries who were victims of genocide and/or outside political support for the country’s murderous regimes… One way or another…

12. Guatemala ( Christian country )

13. Salvador ( Christian country )

14. Nicaragua ( Christian country )

15. Puerto Rico ( Christian country )

16. Panama ( Christian country )

17. Venezuela ( Christian country )

18. Jamaica ( Christian country )

19. Haiti ( Christian country )

20.Colombia ( Christian country )

21. Equador ( Christian country )

22. Afghanistan ( Muslim country )
23. Iraq… ( Muslim country )

24. Many African countries ……..and so on…and so on

Now coming back to your question…. Chritian religion that preaches the richness of God's Grace that we are all saved.

Does religion ( specifically Christians) create more wars?


Dear Brother,

You know or not…when we do research….aiyah! now no need do research lah…

The “ HIDDEN HAND “ BEHIND MOST OF THESE BLOODSHED … THE EVIL “ LEADERS “… THEY
PROFESSSED THE RELIGION OF THE HOLY BIBLE.

Brother … you know or not…. In Africa got one famous saying… it goes like this…..

…... The Missionaries came to our shores,
... They had their Bible in their hands,
.....We had our land in our hands……

.... They taught us how to pray with eyes close…….
.... When we open our eyes……
.... We had their bible in our hands…..
.... They had our lands in their hands….


Erh Brother Mike,.... What was your question ...??


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 21:44:09
Mikey,

Please don’t call me master… lah….

I just orang biasa…naik lrt, kadang2 makan at steven’s corner, lotus mana2 je ..

I too ada banyak weakness… one of which.. I like to hear music of the 60s & 70s… where the music scene was experimenting AKOO-O – THE SCIENCE OF SOUNDS and produced many talented musicians like Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page , ZZ Top etc.

Btw the “ Blind Faith “ I was talking about earlier was a 60s group of musicians headed by Eric Clapton & Steve Winwood…

So you see Mikey, I just orang biasa with simple taste… an inconspicuous microcosm !!


.....
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written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 22:25:51
Hi Mimag 2007,

Total the number of people kill than compare. Lawyers are to fight for injustice. But bayak serong juga. Dr to save life, banyak profit motivated juga............... the church body is not perfect. Satan will use many to defile the church..........kebanyakan negara yang awak nama kan tak sampai juta juta. Itu pun kerajaan bukan christian benar benar.


By the way, you believe in the teaching of Christ, you should have no problem with these verses.
Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.



Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
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written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 22:39:09
Mimag 2005,

It was not the missionaries that colonise foreign country. It is the governemtn of the country that send out their ships and army. Christian missionaries benefited from the joy ride. To blame Christian missionaries is like, when you go to hospital to deliver a baby, you end up with a child but with lots of future financial commitment. You overlook the joy of having a baby and drown yourself with the financial challenge you are face with.

You blame the wrong guys. Missionaries bring civilisation to many countries. Education and basic human care, schools, medicine and doctors...........Make them strong and prepare them to be a democratic country, teaching them to be strong be strong in God that one day they will have the strength to kick the captors away. Missionaries are the one working to set the foundation to kick out the UK, Dutch, French etc etc.

Some of the missionaries teach the basic of human rights
Pro 31:8 But you must defend those who are helpless and have no hope.
Pro 31:9 Be fair and give justice to the poor and homeless
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 23:06:45
MIKEY.... PLEASE.....PLEASE !!!......??????

written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 | 22:25:51
Hi Mimag 2007,


01)..Total the number of people kill than compare…… .kebanyakan negara yang awak nama kan tak sampai juta juta…..???

Brother…what you mean compare ??

what !..... just for statistic purpose…. ah ?????

Tell to the living family members of these countries that were ravaged by evil leaders professing the Holy Bible as their religion…..

Tell to the widows, the wounded, the old, the weak, those who lost their fathers, brothers, cousins, nephews, friends, the orphans….. that they are lucky because statistically .. their losses are small in numbers as compared to the first eleven…

BROTHER WHAT HAPPEN TO YOU….???.... HAVE YOUR BRAINS GONE SOFT …??????


02) …the church body is not perfect. Satan will use many to defile the church ????..........

……. Can you please list out few “ Kunchus “ of Satan…

I made your job easier.. earlier I mentionedfew of these kunchus were …………………†¦â€¦â€¦..

THE NEIGHBOURHOOD MAN WITH THE “ GENTLE VOICE “…..

03) …. Itu pun kerajaan bukan christian benar benar….. ?

Brother which kerajaan is Christian benar benar… and which kerajaan is Christian olok olok…. ?

……..be it the perpetrators or the victims…. ????


For Jonah’s example… I prepare my response…. Ok !

Pls sabar sikit


……..
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written by mimag2005, January 21, 2008 23:32:08
written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 | 22:39:09
Mimag 2005,


It was not the missionaries that colonise foreign country. It is the governemtn of the country that send out their ships and army. CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES BENEFITTED FROM THE JOY RIDE……..
…………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦........................................................

Brother in your dictionary.. ah…… got the word “ ACCOMPLICE “…… or not…????

If don’t have… ah….. please key in www.dictionary.com.... Many you can choose from… ok ???



Alamak !!!.... Brother… steady lah sikit…. Please don’t give walkover…. Tak shiok !!!


…..
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 00:38:17
Mimag 2005

In terms of raw number, which is the only kind of evidence that RATIONALIST claim to accept, the evidence is very conclusive. Free of any moral restrain, believing that the ends justify the means, scoffing at the notion that they will ever answer to a power higher than themselves, the muderous dictators of atheistic regimes feel little hesistaiton in committing mass murder if they believe it will advance their more rational more scientific social aims.

The bible teaches us Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 00:42:30
Mimag 2005,

Many christians like you do not do the will of God. Jesus said "go away, I know you not" Those countries you name are of law dominating spirit to control people/ leaders. They do not know Christ. They do not know that Christ comes to died for us and nail the laws to the cross. His will in Chapter 10 of Hebrew is clear. To replace the old covenant ( laws) and replace with a new covenant ( grace)

My brain has always been soft. Is your hard and solid? Can a get a doctor examine them?

michael Soh
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 00:54:43
Mimag 2005,

Many missionaries died in doing their part to bring education, medical and Christ to new places. You call them accomplice? They are some bad apples, but do you cart out and throw away the whole basket of apples. You generalised to distort facts. You bring new unrelated perspective to run away from the discussing and resolving issues.

Slow down and calm down.
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 01:27:12
written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 | 22:25:51
Hi Mimag 2007,

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
…………………†¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Brother I had posted this earlier…. Tapi ok lah….

Inspite of the many miracles that Jesus performed i.e give life to the dead by God’s permission, heal the blind by God’s permission, heal the sick by God’s permission, etc etc…. still the Scribes and the Pharisees were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah or Annointed or Appointed by God.

So these scribes and Pharisees again approached Jesus as per following :

Matthew Ch 12 : 38/40…38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah:40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
…………………†¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â₠¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â ‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘ €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

So we ask ourselves… Out of the many earlier Prophets… why did Jesus chose the sign of Prophet Jonah…..

What is so special about the sign of Prophet Jonah…??

To cut the story short….

God gave Jonah an assignment and he cabut… took a ship to escape..
God made the sea very rough, winds very strong sampai the kapal hampir2 mau pecah…
To save the ship’s crew members Jonah volunteered to be thrown into the raging sea.
After being thrown into the raging sea, God send a Big Fish to swallow him up…as in…..

Jonah Ch 1… : 17… Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Any thing special from this incident ?

01)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when thrown into the raging seas
02)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when being swallowed by a Fish
03)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when you are in the Fish belly for 3 days and 3 nights…

If Prophet Jonah had died in ANY ONE OF THESE INCIDENTS… IT IS TO BE EXPECTED

Please tell me if anyone encountered this type of continuous problems..I SAY 200 PERCENT SURELY MATI KUDASAI … If anyone disagree…please raise up your hands or send a protest response….!!!

So did Prophet Jonah die.. after going thru one impossible problem after another…?

Lets go to Jonah Ch2 :1..
……Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly………

….After going through ALL THESE IMPOSSIBLE ODDS, Jonah was PRAYING TO GOD !.... JONAH WAS ALIVE ALL THE TIME…!!!!

CAN YOU IMAGINE … JONAH WAS ALIVE ALL THE TIME !!!!!

THIS WAS JONAH’s SPECIAL SIGN… !!

SOOOOO ….JESUS SAID HE WILL GIVE A SIGN LIKE JONAH……that means when everybody expect Jesus to die… he is ACTUALLY ALIVE !!!!!!..................BUT…...

EVERY CHRISTIAN SAY Jesus DIEDED ON THE CROSS……

….. MIKEY SAY JESUS HUNG AT THE TREE ETC ETC

Ok lah, as you like what type of death sentence you want to give to Jesus.. you punya suka .. asal you bahagia !!!..... because ACCORDING TO YOU that means….JESUS WILL GIVE A SIGN NOT LIKE JONAH …..!!!!!

NEXUS TO RESURRECTION !!!
…………………†¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦Ă˘â‚¬Â¦

So Brother Mikey…

Isnt it puzzling that a simple, normal incident like ….” SITTING ON AN ASS “… was PROPHESIED IN CLEAR LANGUAGE IN OLD TESTAMENT….. while….the Old Testament was SILENT FOR A MAJOR EVENT LIKE… RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY …?????

…. RESURRECTION IS TALKING ABOUT DEATH..…

… YOU WILL NEVER FIND IT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE JESUS IS GIVING A SIGN ABOUT HIM BEING …ALIVE !!! ….AND NOT DEAD..!!!!!


Sherlock Holmes close his case.


Amen !!!


………………..
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 01:49:54
written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 00:42:30

Mimag 2005,

Many christians like you do not do the will of God. Jesus said "go away, I know you not" Those countries you name are of law dominating spirit to control people/ leaders. They do not know Christ.
.....................................................

Matt Ch 7 : 1.. Judge not, that ye be not judged.2.. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again

Amen !

....
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 02:13:46
written by Michael Soh, January 21, 2008 | 22:25:51
Hi Mimag 2007,

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
............................
Brother I had posted this earlier…. Tapi ok lah….

Inspite of the many miracles that Jesus performed i.e give life to the dead by God’s permission, heal the blind by God’s permission, heal the sick by God’s permission, etc etc…. still the Scribes and the Pharisees were not convinced that Jesus was the Messiah or Annointed or Appointed by God.

So these scribes and Pharisees again approached Jesus as per following :
Matthew Ch 12 : 38/40…38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah:40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
.............................................

So we ask ourselves… Out of the many earlier Prophets… why did Jesus chose the sign of Prophet Jonah…..

What is so special about the sign of Prophet Jonah…??

To cut the story short.....

God gave Jonah an assignment and he cabut… took a ship to escape..
God made the sea very rough, winds very strong sampai the kapal hampir2 mau pecah…
To save the ship’s crew members Jonah volunteered to be thrown into the raging sea.
After being thrown into the raging sea, God send a Big Fish to swallow him up…as in…..

Jonah Ch 1… : 17… Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Any thing special from this incident ?

01)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when thrown into the raging seas
02)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when being swallowed by a Fish
03)You are SUPPOSED TO DIE when you are in the Fish belly for 3 days and 3 nights…

If Prophet Jonah had died in ANY ONE OF THESE INCIDENTS… IT IS TO BE EXPECTED

Please tell me if anyone encountered this type of continuous problems..I SAY 200 PERCENT SURELY MATI KUDASAI … If anyone disagree…please raise up your hands or send a protest response….!!!

So did Prophet Jonah die.. after going thru one impossible problem after another…?

Lets go to Jonah Ch2 :1..
......Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly………

.....After going through ALL THESE IMPOSSIBLE ODDS, Jonah was PRAYING TO GOD !.... JONAH WAS ALIVE ALL THE TIME…!!!!

..........CAN YOU IMAGINE … JONAH WAS ALIVE !!!!!..........

..........THIS WAS JONAH’s SPECIAL SIGN… !!..............

......SOOOOO ….JESUS SAID HE WILL GIVE A SIGN LIKE JONAH……that means when everybody expect.....
....... Jesus to die… he is..... ACTUALLY ALIVE !!!!!!..................BUT…...

.......EVERY CHRISTIAN SAY Jesus DIEDED ON THE CROSS....

.......MIKEY SAY JESUS HUNG AT THE TREE ETC ETC.....

Ok lah, as you like what type of death sentence you want to give to Jesus.. you punya suka .. asal you bahagia !!! .....because ACCORDING TO YOU that means….JESUS WILL GIVE A SIGN NOT LIKE JONAH …..!!!!!

NEXUS TO RESURRECTION !!!
.........................

So Brother Mikey.......

Isnt it puzzling that a simple, normal incident like ....” SITTING ON AN ASS “.... was PROPHESIED IN CLEAR LANGUAGE IN OLD TESTAMENT.....while....the Old Testament was SILENT FOR A MAJOR EVENT LIKE...
................. RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY..........????

.........RESURRECTION IS TALKING ABOUT DEATH..........

.........YOU WILL NEVER FIND IT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE JESUS IS GIVING A SIGN ABOUT HIM BEING
...................ALIVE !!! .....AND NOT ...........DEAD..!!!!!


Sherlock Holmes close his case.


...............
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 03:14:44
Hi Mike,

written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 00:38:17

Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered…..
............................................................

Mikey, you know the meaning or not…???

..down here on earth… we do wrong, commit heinous crimes ..kill people… we can escape..
.....because people dont know .... or..we just jolok duit..... or...you are a “ who’s who “.... you
know like “MULBERRY” Bush or “ ROCKER “ Tony Blare… STILL MANY WORLD LEADERS AMPU DIA TINGGI TINGGI


......BUT.......on The Other Side.....WE SURELY CANNOT ESCAPE….

...God is telling us in VERY CLEAR LANGUAGE...EVEN THE HAIRS ON OUR HEAD ARE NUMBERED..!!!...

....So....lagi mau main main ..eh ! ......our nenek will say.....mincai si eh !.....

......Brother , pls stop " ASSING " around ok !!!!


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 03:41:16
written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 00:54:43
Mimag 2005,

Many missionaries died in doing their part to bring education, medical and Christ to new places. You call them accomplice? They are some bad apples,
.................................................


Mikey..... did I say " ALL ".......please !

......
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 15:17:20
Mimag 2005,

You are good at distorting Jonah and Jesus teaching. Good story teller. Good at cursing and manipulative. I give it all to you.

Well, I guess the believers will see the prophecies in the old testament clearly and you will remain not to see it. Whether you choose not to or blind, I can only pray for you. You wack Paul but when it is proven that Peter was the one first taught resurrection of Christ, you kept silent, bikin tak tahu. You say you believe in Jesus, when Jesus said he will be raised up, you again bikin tak tahu. It was satan working hard to put Christ at the tree, satan would have change tactic if it is wrote clearly about Christ raised on the third day. Again you bikin tak tahu..... You are really assing around here. If you do not believe in Paul, Dont believe in Peter, Because Peter picks up from Paul about Jesus resurrection. If you dont believe Paul and Peter, dont believe in Christ. Because Peter confess his teaching comes from Christ. Peter and Paul give praise to Christ. Old testatment has clearly spell out how Christ will died on the cross. (See Isaiah 53) and why he should die at the cross ( Isaiah 54). Psalm has prophecies his resurrection.

By the way, there are two cases in this world where man went thru what jonah went thru.

Micahel Soh
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 18:32:04
written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 15:17:20
Mimag 2005,

01)You are good story teller. Good at cursing and manipulative. I give it all to you.

Mikey, Mikey…. Remember you are the one who is suppose to have the Trinitarian Holy Spirit LIVING IN YOU.

So… Brother steady lah….display lah some calm, cool and collect …macam Marlbobo Man…ok ? …( I know u don’t smoke)

02)….. You are good at distorting Jonah and Jesus teaching…?

Please show where .. and please back it up


03) Well, I guess the believers will SEE THE PROPHECIES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT CLEARLY…..and you will remain not to see it. …???

Please show which CLEAR PROPHECY ON RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY you talking about..??? PLEASE….. CLEAR MEANS CLEAR … NO ROOM FOR ANY HYPER IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD .. like a cattle stampede … COMPRENDO SIGNOR ??

04) You wack Paul but when it is proven that Peter was the one first taught resurrection of Christ, you kept silent, bikin tak tahu.?

Can you please repeat the quotation…. I’m still finding my way thru your maze of quotations…. Thank you.

05) You say you believe in Jesus, when Jesus said he will be raised up, you again bikin tak tahu.?

… Brother you are SPOT ON !!!... JESUS SAID HE WILL BE RAISED UP…NOT RESURRECTED…

… You know the difference between “ RAISED UP “ and “ RESURRECTED “… ?


06) It was satan working hard to put Christ at the tree, satan would have change tactic if it is wrote clearly about Christ raised on the third day. Again you bikin tak tahu..... ???

….Brother what kind of Trinitarian GOD …are you worshipping to…? You mean SATAN is more clever than your Trinitarian GOD ah..?. and your Trinitarian GOD worried that Satan will SABO your Trinitarian GOD plan ..?? .. So lembek ah your Trinitarian God …?

Hello Brother GOD created Satan or SATAN created GOD…???

07) You are really assing around here…?

Now who is “ ASSING “ around… and who you think is gonna get “ ASSED “ when Maker come a calling …??

0smilies/cool.gif If you do not believe in Paul, Dont believe in Peter, Because Peter picks up from Paul about Jesus resurrection…?

…. AaaHhhh ! So now we know where Peter got his sickness from …!!!!

09) If you dont believe Paul and Peter, dont believe in Christ ..???

Please show me where in Bible Jesus say we must believe in Paul…. ????.

Do you know that Paul is PEMBOHONG BESAR…. Don’t believe…????..... I show in Bible next time…!!!!

10) Because Peter confess his teaching comes from Christ….. No comments for TIME BEING !!!

11) Peter and Paul give praise to Christ….??

Brother… aiyah..!!! …you know your Bible or not …??? You want me to show where Paul “ UP THE FINGER “ to Jesus

12) Old testatment has clearly spell out how Christ will died on the cross. (See Isaiah 53) and why he should die at the cross
( Isaiah 54)….???

Please refer to No. 4 above

12) Psalm has prophecies his resurrection…..??

Please refer to No. 4 above

13) By the way, there are two cases in this world where man went thru what jonah went thru.

…Wah ..!! out of 6 BILLION PEOPLE… there were 2 cases that went thru what Jonah went thru… Can you please produce the article or at least give the website. It is indeed interesting news…

…. You see Brother we must be unbiased and objective… don’t CLOSE UP !!!!


14) For 2moro’s appointment pls sms to 016 6900 534… Look forward to meet you…

Monstercat… if you are reading… wud you like to join us to TRINITISE this meeting …???

Cheers !

....
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 18:44:42
Hi Mikey,

What is going on....?

Which is which ...?


Please instruct your Trinitarian Holy Spirit to guide you properly. You are HIS REPRESENTATIVE..!!

Pls dont make people laugh.. ok.. my brother.

Dont worry.. i understand .. other than the SPIRIT OF THE ONE, INDIVISBLE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD.... THE REST ARE ALL FALLIBLE INCLUDING YOUR TRINITY SPIRIT.

Cheers !!

....


04) You wack Paul but when it is proven that Peter was the one first taught resurrection of Christ, you kept silent, bikin tak tahu.?

Can you please repeat the quotation…. I’m still finding my way thru your maze of quotations…. Thank you.

0smilies/cool.gif If you do not believe in Paul, Dont believe in Peter, Because Peter picks up from Paul about Jesus resurrection…?

…. AaaHhhh ! So now we know where Peter got his sickness from …!!!!
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 18:47:46
Hi Mikey,

What is going on....?

Which is which ...?


04) You wack Paul but when it is proven that Peter was the one first taught resurrection of Christ, you kept silent, bikin tak tahu.?

Can you please repeat the quotation…. I’m still finding my way thru your maze of quotations…. Thank you.

0smilies/cool.gif If you do not believe in Paul, Dont believe in Peter, Because Peter picks up from Paul about Jesus resurrection…?

…. AaaHhhh ! So now we know where Peter got his sickness from …!!!!



Please instruct your Trinitarian Holy Spirit to guide you properly. You are HIS REPRESENTATIVE..!!

Pls dont make people laugh.. ok.. my brother.

Dont worry.. i understand .. other than the SPIRIT OF THE ONE, INDIVISBLE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD.... THE REST ARE ALL FALLIBLE INCLUDING YOUR TRINITY SPIRIT.

Cheers !!
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 22:27:29
Dear Mimag 2005,

Peter is the first to teach about Jesus resurrection on the pentacost. Peter learn new revelation from Paul who only accepted Christ much latter continue to teach about resurrection of Christ. Peter did enhance his understanding from Pual new relevation. Paul continue in the revelation of Jesus resurrection...........it is Paul that wrote most of the New Testament. Save to say, Peter did pick more from Paul's revelation than Paul from Peter's revelation.

You dont believe Paul, you should have similar problem with Peter. And likewise Jesus. If you believe in Jesus, than you should have no problem believing what Jesus said that he will be raise in the third day. See Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 22:39:42
Dear Mimag 2005,

Do you fear God? Do you love God? Can you fear ( and tremble at the same time) and love God?

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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 22:46:18
Dear Mimag 2005,

Notice your wierd style of engagement.

Could it be that what you dont agree, you cliam easy way out by stating "I’m still finding my way thru your maze of quotations" thus assing around. When you rebuke people with your assing around is okay, But when some one rebut with the same tone, you go balistic.

When I have a type error ( cross and tree) you jump with the intensity of very detail person. Sorry still finding my way thru your maze of quotation vs going to detail minute type error is two different extreme personality. Arguing for the sake of arguing?
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 22:47:31

Hi Mikey,

Good evening !

Sudah makan dinner ?
I hope you dont get stomach ache after reading my earlier posting. Anyway dont worry give you antidote makan tairu.. mesti baik.... ok ?

How, i made offer about Paul being Pembohong Besar and Up The Finger.

I repeat the message below :
09) If you dont believe Paul and Peter, dont believe in Christ ..???

Please show me where in Bible Jesus say we must believe in Paul…. ????.

Do you know that Paul is PEMBOHONG BESAR…. Don’t believe…????..... I show in Bible next time…!!!!

11) Peter and Paul give praise to Christ….??

Brother… aiyah..!!! …you know your Bible or not …??? You want me to show where Paul “ UP THE FINGER “ to Jesus


So.... how..! want to call my bluff or not ??

Aiyah ! dont be paiseh ... ok..... Dont worry Truth always prevails.


Ok lah if you still paiseh to call my BLUFF.... OK LAH I OFFER TO ANY ONE ...TO CALL MY BLUFF...


Ok Mikey, kita gentleman... have no fear when you have the truth... teok bo !!


Cheers !

....

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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 22:53:51
Dear Mimag 2005

you wrote " You want me to show where Paul “ UP THE FINGER “ to Jesus "

Do you really know your bible? Paul does not such thing. Quoting your text "PLEASE….. CLEAR MEANS CLEAR … NO ROOM FOR ANY HYPER IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD .. like a cattle stampede … COMPRENDO SIGNOR ??"

Such dicussion is not really helping to get close to a conclusion but just upping the tension and fist. Arguing for the sake of arguing is for the fools............. in your terms assing around.

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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 22:58:32
Mimag 2005

Make it next week wed. Tomorrow is a holiday. Taking the opportunity to go back home town earlier with the surprise wednesday holiday. Thursday and Friday have to be out of town.

Sorry.
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 23:06:39

Mikey !

written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 22:46:18

Dear Mimag 2005,

……you cliam easy way out by stating "I’m still finding my way thru your maze of quotations" thus assing around.
…………………†¦â€¦

Mikey… please lah.. please resend the passage ….ok….. Rhombe nandri !


When I have a type error ( cross and tree)… you jump with the intensity ….
…………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ ¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Brother if you made type error … no problem.. just correct next time and inform… Only now you saying it was type error.

Anyway it’s a small matter ok… after all we all make countless mistakes….

Now I wait for you to oblidge my request.

Thousand and one thanks !
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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 23:12:40
Mimag 2005,

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 "I AM" the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

You should freak out with this teaching from Jesus. I Am the God of Abraham.......Jesus is God and He is one of the trinity element

You should also freak out with this....
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him, Lord, how is he his son?

Will you also reject Jesus when He said He will rise up?
Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mat 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.


Can a dead man brutally beaten, (His body sampai tak boleh kenal) rise up without been resurrected?

Do you interpret this verses like the Pharasees?Mat 26:61 And said, this fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. Temple means physical temple. Your way of saying it is " quoting mimig 2005.........CLEAR MEANS CLEAR … NO ROOM FOR ANY HYPER IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD .. like a cattle stampede … COMPRENDO SIGNOR ??

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written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 23:28:28
Mimag,

These verse are from Peter ( before Paul accepted Christ) He spoke about Christ been RAISED UP and RESURRECTION OF CHRIST to mean the same within two bible verse (Act 2:30 and Act 2:31)...........Hallelu Yah, God saw someone like you will draw confussion between RAISE UP and RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would RAISE UP Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
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written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 23:34:56

Mikey,

By the way ....n my earlier response.....do you have any comments on the following :-

01) written by mimag2005, January 17, 2008 | 19:17:18
Dear Michael, Thank you for your explanation on Another and Comforter...

.......PARACALON, PARAKLYTOS, ALLOS, HETEROS, AKOO-O & LALEO….

Was the translation correct or not...?.

02) About the LAST AND FINAL PROPHET....After the exit of Jesus the Messiah......has Christiandom produce a suitable MAN CANDIDATE AS A PROPHET THAT COULD FULFILL ALL THE 3 PROPHESIES....????


03) Is it correct to confirm that the Bible “ AS A WHOLE “ IS NOT THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD...
.......ONLY A PART IS........???

04)......2 Kings Ch 19 Verses 1 to 37 and ISAIAH CH 37..........

Are the above Chapters the INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD ....OR.... PLAGIARISM OF THE HIGHEST DEGREE..??


Can I have your replies on the above....to determine our journey.....


THANK YOU


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 23, 2008 02:54:08

Hi Mikey,

Thank you for your reply on A CLEAR PROPHESY ON RESURRECTION


written by Michael Soh, January 22, 2008 | 23:12:40
Mimag 2005,


Do you interpret this verses like the Pharasees?Mat 26:61 And said, this fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. Temple means physical temple. Your way of saying it is " quoting mimig 2005.........CLEAR MEANS CLEAR … NO ROOM FOR ANY HYPER IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD .. like a cattle stampede … COMPRENDO SIGNOR ??
...........................................................

Mike, ...maybe due to your speed, you may have overlooked…. You have quoted Matthew of the New Testament.

For your easy reference I repeat the question concerning producing A CLEAR PROPHESY ON RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT…. NOT FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT……..


written by mimag2005, January 22, 2008 | 18:32:04

03) Well, I guess the believers will SEE THE PROPHECIES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT CLEARLY…..and you will remain not to see it. …???

Please show which CLEAR PROPHECY ON RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY you talking about..??? PLEASE….. CLEAR MEANS CLEAR … NO ROOM FOR ANY HYPER IMAGINATION TO RUN WILD .. like a cattle stampede … COMPRENDO SIGNOR ??

Can you please produce from the Old Testaament.

Thank you


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written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 20:51:29
Dear Mimag 2005,
In regards to what you wrote on January 22, 2008 | 23:34:56

(01)To answer you (01) question I refer to your text dated Jan 17, you quoted the following Bible verses

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER[ALLOS] COMFORTER [PARAKLTOS], that he may abide with you forever;

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE [PARAKLTOS] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

You have your answer / evidence of trinity right in front of you. H20is the same in water, ice or steam. But all three plays different function.

God is omnipresent. The attribute of God by which He fills the universe in all its parts and is present everywhere at once. Not a part, but the whole of God is present in every place. This is true of all three members of the Trinity. They are so closely related that where one is the others can be said to be, also.

Psalm 139:8 , Jeremiah 23:23,24, Ephesians 2:22 , Psalm 113:5 , Psalm 123:1 I Kings 8:2, Hebrews 1:3, I Corinthians 1:27, Matthew 18:20, Romans 10:6,7, Romans 8:9

(02) To answer your (02) question, I refer to your text dated January 15. where uou quoted these three bible verses
A.John 1:19/21-25
B.Deutronomy 18:18/19
C.Isaiah 29:12

You seems to allude that these three bible verses as your three prophesies that Christiandome must produce a suitable candidate as the final prophet. Now lets read each bible verse in context and see what it means.

A. John 1;19/21-25 ….. Can I encourage you to extend the verses to cover up to John 1:34 and not stop at 1John 25 ( STOP CHERRY PICKING) You willl see that the additional verses explain who this prophet mention in Deutronomy 18 who would come to the nation of Isreal and fully explain the way of God. And that person is JESUS. Also in Joh 1:30 This is he of whom I said, AFTER ME cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was BEFORE ME. Notice the AFTER ME and BEFORE ME in the same verse. John is referring to the eternal nature of JESUS whom is GOD one of the element of trinity God. How can Jesus be AFTER John but yet is BEFORE John. Yes he can be AFTER AND BEFORE because Jesus is God and God is ETERNAL.

B. Deutronomy 18:18/19 I will again encourage you to read up to Deu 18:22 to see the context. The prophet that Deutronomy 18 is taking about is Jesus. A prophet here is nâbîy' naw-bee' in Hebrew which means a prophet or (generally) inspired man: - that prophesy, prophet. Jesus prophecies extensively. Jesus is known for many names. Besides been a prophet, he is also known as the king of kings, the saviour, the high priest etc etc. So what is your real problem.

D.Isaiah 29:12 Again I encourage you to read the whole passage to see the context clearly. If I read from verse 9 -12 I see the Lord is saying to these people at this time, that, because they chose to be apathetic, they would remain unenlightened. That is neither the educated nor the uneducated individual would have understanding of the Word. IN this is an important truth. That is, if you don’t want to understand scriptures, you wont. If you are not interested in doing the will of God or knowing the heart of God, the Bible will become meaningless to you. Eh! Hello Mimag 2005, where are you trying to get at? What prophet lay? But these verse from a different perspective to prophet, should apply to you and hope you see its application

Mimag 2005, I take a break. I will answer (03) and (04) later.
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written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 20:55:12
Dear Mimag 2005,

In regards to your text written on January 23, 2008 | 02:54:08

I would like now to address the OT prophecy of Jesus resurrection. I will address your four question subsequent to this explanation. I believe it is clear as it can be but not to your satisfaction. I can only attempt to close the gap why I am clear and why you are not clear that the OT do provide such prophecy. Before I begin, I just want to high light why I am at a disadvantage position to defend my claim that OT do provide such prophesy as you have unfairly adopted a narrow perspective to argue your case. The narrow perspective you adopt, to me equates to “a crooked argument” that only benefits your claim. In short you have a home ground advantage as you limit the discussion to discredit Jesus resurrection. How do you do this?

The bible is to be read in totality ( ie all 66 books). Bible readers will concur that OT has hidden jewel that is reveal in the NT and NT contains hidden treasures of OT. If you limit prophecies in OT to justify what happens in NT, then you allow half truths to surface only. Where did it say in the bible that NT events must be prophecies in OT only?

a.There are events in OT that are prophecies in OT
b.There are events in NT that are prophecies in OT
c.There are events in NT that are prophecies in NT.

Your insistence of limiting OT prophecies to confirm NT events solely for Jesus resurrection ( and not others) is like cutting out the limb and vital organs of a person at the same time and expect the person to live. Once again I sum it up that your line of thoughts to argue out your point is nothing more than a CROOKED ARGUMENT. You are denying the TRUTH by circumventing events that are important to piece the whole TRUE PICTURE.

It is the same in your pattern of thinking for your religious believe. You penalize Paul but hold on to the teaching of Jesus and other disciples. However, when it is evident that Paul picks up from Peter on the topic of Jesus resurrection, you kept quite.

Dear Mimag 2005, you are believing and teaching on shaky ground. You use God’s the creator to instill fear on bloggers that oppose your views. Do you really fear God? Do you fear and tremble at the same time love God? I would like to share with you, if God appear, the all Mighty Creator appears right now, I can come boldly to face Him. Can you? Believers can face our God face to face without fear. In fact, we believers can face him with BOLDNESS. We can do this thanks to resurrection of Christ. See Heb 4:16 Let us therefore COME BOLDLY unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Continue next session ( tak cukup space)
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written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 20:57:43
(Sambung ke 2.... from previous session)

Now I will attempt to explain why prophecies will be there but unfortunately or fortunately it is not as clear as to the level for non-believers like you. (The objectives is not to reveal all to the non-believers. The same, you do not give away your family wealth to non family members)
The conflict between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent is becomes focused upon Israel since the Messiah will come forth from God's elect nation. Therefore, if Satan can obstruct God's plan at any point and prevent it from unfolding in history, then he believes that he will have obstructed God's plan and will have proven his initial claim that the Lord does not deserve to be God, the Most High One.

Satan wants to avoid his head from been crushed by the seed of the woman. Revelation 12 tells us that a third of the angels fell and followed Satan in his original revolt. We learn this when we realize that the stars in this passage are symbolic of angels (compare Rev. 9:1; 12:7, 9). "This is a war in heaven that resulted in the casting of Satan and his angels to earth before the birth of the woman's child, so it belongs to the past. A second war in 12:7-9 is Satan's final attempt to storm heaven, bringing about the child's overthrow after his birth."

The second half of the verse is a clear reference to Satan (the dragon) who stood before the woman (Israel) in anticipation of the birth of Jesus the Messiah, who is the child that the woman gave birth to in the past. Satan did not know the exact moment of the birth of Messiah and so he waited expectantly for the seed of woman to come forth. His attempt to devour the woman's child is seen in the New Testament as Satan inspires King Herod to develop a plot to find and kill Jesus (Matt. 2). Because the historical events surrounding the birth of Jesus were part of the angelic conflict, the Lord warns the magi from the east in a dream to avoid Herod, "they departed for their own country by another way" (Matt. 2:12). Since Satan was about to inspired Herod to kill all male babies in the Bethlehem area who were in the age-range of Jesus, "an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying 'Arise and take the Child and His mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him'" (Matt. 2:13). God is always at least one step ahead of Satan.
These kinds of events down through history are part of the angelic conflict, the war between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. Thomas summaries some of the key events from history as follows:

See Sambungan ke tiga
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written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 20:59:11
Sambungan ke tiga.....final conclusion

The dragon's evil intentions toward the woman's unborn child evidenced themselves throughout OT history. Instances of his hostility surfaced in Cain's murder of Abel (Gen. 4:smilies/cool.gif, the corrupting of the line of Seth (Gen. 6:1-12), attempted rapes of Sarah (Gen. 12:10-20; 20:1-1smilies/cool.gif and Rebekah (Gen. 26:1-1smilies/cool.gif, Rebekah's plan to cheat Esau out of his birthright and the consequent enmity of Esau against Jacob (Gen. 27), the murder of the male children in Egypt (Ex. 1:15-22), attempted murders of David (e.g., 1 Sam. 18:10-11), Queen Athaliah's attempt to destroy the royal seed (2 Chron. 22:10), Haman's attempt to slaughter the Jews (Esther 3-9), and consistent attempts of the Israelites to murder their own children for sacrificial purposes (cf. Lev. 18:21; 2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chron. 28:3; Ps. 106:37-38; Ezek. 16:20).
The attack of Herod against the children of Bethlehem (Matt. 2:16) and many other incidents during Jesus' earthly life, including His temptation, typify the ongoing attempt of the dragon to "devour" the woman's child once he was born. The most direct attempt was, of course, in the crucifixion of Christ.
Mimag 2005, as you can see, without revealing clearly to the non believers like you, the dragon at that time was clearly on one objective / mission. KILL THE SEED OF THE WOMAN THAT WILL CRUSH HIS HEAD.
We believers believe this prophesies in the OT is clear. I have quoted Psalm 16:10-11 that God refusal to let Jesus to remain in a grave after death. Which is clear to me that he is resurrected. If read in totality ( i.e the whole 66 books together) it pieces the picture 100%. It is also found in Psalm 22, Isaiah 53.

Again, I wont stop at OT. I will accept accounts in the Gospel in the NT where Jesus appear 12 times after his resurrection to meet his disciples. He had breakfast with this disciples and He cook for Peter. He taught them how to fish etc etc. Not forgetting, the Pharisees who asked Pilate ( Matt 27:62-63)to send guards to the tomb as they remember Jesus said that after three days he will arise (egeirō : eg-i'-ro which means arose from dead, sleep or lying down)

Again I wont stop at the Gosple. I will go towards book of ACTs, Romans, Hebrew etc
Why handicap yourself to only OT. Where did the bible or say we should limit our understanding of God to OT only.

But sadly you will not agree. Sadly it is not clear to you. Like the dragon, you are on the kill mission mentality. If Jesus is not resurrected, you will continue to hold on to the LAWS. You want to perform and fear God as he will come and judge you as to your performance of the laws. Thus you are slapping your God. You are effectively rejecting his Son who died for you. Jesus died in vain for you.
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written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 21:09:46
Dear Mimag 2005,

I still owe you Question (03) and (04). I will answer them soon. Taking a break. But I just feel very compel to share these verses with you.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the GOSPEL OF CHRIST
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCUSED.

Notice that Paul equate the GOSPEL OF CHRIST as the GRACE OF CHRIST. GRACE = GOSPEL. The whole gospel is the GOOD NEWS and it is about GRACE OF CHRIST. Sadly, it also announces a double curses onto whoever that preaches a gospel that is another gospel that is not GRACE OF CHRIST.

Hope you sleep well and sleep tight.

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written by tuanlokong, January 23, 2008 21:34:10
Pheww when come to religion so much comment ka? smilies/grin.gif Usually when current effected daily life only two or three comments... smilies/wink.gif Just one thing I believe no hatered amongst mankind. Khalas nothing will do bad.
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 00:51:11
Hi Mikey,

Very good evening !

Hey, I thought you say “ take 5 “ because mau balik kampong….??

Hey Brother… lau sik kong,… I am really very touched you putting so much efforts to “turn around “ this recalcitrant brother of yours…... Mucho, mucho gracias Taikhoh !

Dear Brother Mike,

To enable us see from the same “ lense “…I did some homework and … produce below which is self –explanatory…you know lah .. about the ASS story…lidah got no bone… susah mau ikat..!!!


01)Jesus teachings were based on Old Testament Laws and Commandments

Matthew Ch 5 : 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke Ch 4 : 43… I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: FOR THEREFORE AM I SENT ….

Paul The Founder of “ Pauline Christianity “ used several “ ARTFUL “ methods to spread his teachings such as :

Rom Ch 3 : 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded THROUGH MY LIE unto his glory……

P’lipians Ch 1 : 18 What then? notwithstanding, EVERY WAY, whether IN PRETENSE, or INTRUTH, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

1 COR CH 15 : 14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

02).. Paul claims Cephas was the first to see Jesus after the “ Crucifixion “

1Cor 15..5 and that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

….4 Gospels say the women folks were the first to see Jesus…..

Matthew Ch 28 : 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail….
Mark Ch 16 : 9…….he appeared first to Mary Mag'dalene, ………..
Luke 24 : 10 It was Mary Mag'dalene, and Joanna……. which told these things unto the apostles……..
John 20 : 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. ……..

03)…..Paul claims he met Jesus

1 Cor Ch 15 : 8… And last of all HE WAS SEEN OF ME ALSO, as of one born out of due time.

Book of Acts.. say …….

Acts Ch 9 : 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:…5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
Acts Ch 22 : 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 00:51:54
04) Jesus taught the Greatest Commandment :

MATT CH 22 : ..37 ..Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.

…Paul taught….GAL Ch 5 : 14 For ALL THE LAW is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

05) Jesus taught:

Mark Ch 10 : 18 Why callest thou me GOOD? There is NONE GOOD BUT ONE…. THAT IS GOD……..

MATT CH 23 : 9.. do not call ANYONE ON EARTH ‘ FATHER ‘, for you have ONE FATHER , AND HE IS IN HEAVEN……..

Paul taught ….I BECAME YOUR FATHER…..….1COR CH 4 : 15.

06).. Paul CANCELLED OLD LAWS /COMMANDMENTS ON FOOD ….

1Cor 10 : …23 "EVERYTHING IS PERMISSIBLE"….25 ……EAT ANYTHING sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience…..27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, ….. …..EAT WHATEVER IS PUT BEFORE YOU…. without raising questions of conscience

LEVITICUS CH 11 : …7 And THE SWINE…, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.8 of their FLESH SHALL YE NOT EAT, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

ISAIAH CH 66 : 3… he that OFFERETH AN OBLATION, AS IF HE OFFERED SWINE’s BLOOD…….


Paul CANCELLED OLD LAWS ON CIRCUMCISION


GAL Ch 5 ….2MARK MY WORDS !...... I, PAUL, TELL YOU THAT IF YOU LET YOURSELVES BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST WILL BE OF NO VALUE TO YOU AT ALL ……

….6.. For in Christ Jesus NEITHER CIRCUMCISION NOR UNCIRCUMCISION HAS ANY VALUE…!!


LUKE CH 2 : 21.. when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus…..
GENESIS CH 17 : 13… He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and MY COVENANT SHALL BE IN YOUR FLESH FOR AN EVERLASTING COVENANT.

14..And the UNCIRCUMCISED MAN child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, THAT SOUL SHALL BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE; HE HATH BROKEN MY COVENANT…….


DANIAL CH 7 : 25….. He will SPEAK AGAINST the Most High and oppress his saints and try to CHANGE THE SET TIMES AND THE LAWS...


07) PAUL SAY HE IS EQUAL TO CHIEFEST APOSTLES ( CHRIST )

……2 Cor Ch 12 : 11…..for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles….,

0smilies/cool.gif PAUL SAY HE IS FAULTNESS

PHILLIPIANS CH 3 : 4 …though I myself have reasons for such confidence. If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I HAVE MORE: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, FAULTLESS.
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 00:52:45
09) COMING OF ANTI CHRIST

1 JOHN CH 2 : 18 … Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that ANTICHRIST shall come, EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY ANTICHRISTS, whereby we know that it is the last time…..


……DID JESUS FORWARNED ABOUT THE COMING OF SATAN (SERPENT)……..

10) Jesus said…. Luke Ch 10 : 18…I saw ” SATAN FALL LIKE LIGHTENING FROM HEAVEN “…..

….Paul received a “ SUDDEN LIGHT FROM HEAVEN “….

ACTS CH 9 : 3….As he neared Damascus on his journey, SUDDENLY A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN FLASHED
AROUND HIM.

ACTS CH 9 :18…Immediately, something like “ SCALES “ fell from Saul's (PAUL’s) eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was BAPTIZED…

REV CH 12 : 9…The great “ DRAGON “ was hurled down—that ancient “ SERPENT “ called the DEVIL , or SATAN, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

GEN CH 3 : 1..Now the “ SERPENT “ was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.
10) How did Jesus describe “ SATAN “
John Ch 8 : 44… He was a MURDERER from the beginning, “NOT HOLDING TO THE TRUTH” , FOR “ THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM “. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for “ HE IS A LIAR ” and the “ FATHER OF LIES “.

THESE WERE THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY “ INSPIRED “ PAUL – THE FOUNDER OF PAULINE CHRISTIANITY

ACTS 22 : 4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. …..5 and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

ACTS CH 8 : 3 As for Saul ( PAUL), he made havoc of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

ACTS Ch 26 : 9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

DANIEL Ch 7 : 25 … And HE SHALL SPEAK GREAT WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH , and shall WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH , and think to CHANGE times and LAWS…..

11) DID THE “ DEVIL “ STAY IN ONE COUNTRY ONLY?....
..Matt Ch 13:25…while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and WENT HIS WAY...

…Acts Ch 28 : 16 ..When we got to Rome, Paul was allowed to live by himself, with a soldier to guard him…

12 ) What message has Jesus got for the CHILDREN of the “ DEVIL “

JOHN CH 8
…42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
…….43WHY IS MY LANGUAGE NOT CLEAR TO YOU ?....
….BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO HEAR WHAT I SAY.
44YOU BELONG TO YOUR FATHER, THE DEVIL, AND YOU WANT TO CARRY OUT YOUR
FATHER’s DESIRE. HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING , NOT HOLDING TO THE
TRUTH, FOR THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. WHEN HE LIES , HE SPEAKS HIS NATIVE
LANGUAGE , FOR HE IS A LIAR and the … “ FATHER OF LIES “……
45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47He who belongs to God hears what God says.
……” THE REASON YOU DO NOT HEAR IS THAT YOU DO NOT BELONG TO GOD “…….

...” One learned man is HARDER ON THE DEVIL.. than a thousand ignorant worshippers “….

Amen !!


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 01:19:00
09) COMING OF ANTI CHRIST

1 JOHN CH 2 : 18 … Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that ANTICHRIST shall come, EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY ANTICHRISTS, whereby we know that it is the last time…..


……DID JESUS FORWARNED ABOUT THE COMING OF SATAN (SERPENT)……..

10) Jesus said…. Luke Ch 10 : 18…I saw ” SATAN FALL LIKE LIGHTENING FROM HEAVEN “…..

….Paul received a “ SUDDEN LIGHT FROM HEAVEN “….

ACTS CH 9 : 3….As he neared Damascus on his journey, SUDDENLY A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN FLASHED
AROUND HIM.

ACTS CH 9 :18…Immediately, something like “ SCALES “ fell from Saul's (PAUL’s) eyes, and he could see
.............................................................
again. He got up and was BAPTIZED…

REV CH 12 : 9…The great “ DRAGON “ was hurled down—that ancient “ SERPENT “ called the DEVIL , or

SATAN, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

GEN CH 3 : 1..Now the “ SERPENT “ was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.

10) How did Jesus describe “ SATAN “

John Ch 8 : 44… He was a MURDERER from the beginning, “NOT HOLDING TO THE TRUTH” , FOR

...... “ THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM “. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for “ HE IS A LIAR ”

..........and the..............“ FATHER OF LIES “.......

THESE WERE THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY “ INSPIRED “ PAUL – THE FOUNDER OF PAULINE CHRISTIANITY
..................................

ACTS 22 : 4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. …..5 and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

ACTS CH 8 : 3 As for Saul ( PAUL), he made havoc of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

ACTS Ch 26 : 9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

DANIEL Ch 7 : 25 … And HE SHALL SPEAK GREAT WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH , and shall WEAR OUT THE

SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH , and think to CHANGE times and LAWS…..

11) DID THE “ DEVIL “ STAY IN ONE COUNTRY ONLY?....

..Matt Ch 13:25…while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and WENT HIS WAY...

…Acts Ch 28 : 16 ..When we got to ROME, Paul was allowed to live by himself, with a soldier to guard him…

12 ) What message has Jesus got for the CHILDREN of the “ DEVIL “

JOHN CH 8

…42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am

here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

....43WHY IS MY LANGUAGE NOT CLEAR TO YOU ?....….BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO HEAR WHAT I SAY.

....44YOU BELONG TO YOUR FATHER, THE DEVIL, AND YOU WANT TO CARRY OUT YOUR FATHER’s DESIRE.......

... HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING , NOT HOLDING TO THE TRUTH, FOR THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM.

... WHEN HE LIES , HE SPEAKS HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE , FOR HE IS A LIAR and the........

...........“ FATHER OF LIES “........

....45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
...........................................................

46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?

47He who belongs to God hears what God says.

..........” THE REASON YOU DO NOT HEAR IS THAT YOU DO NOT BELONG TO GOD !!!!!“......


.....” One learned man is " HARDER ON THE DEVIL ".. than a thousand ignorant worshippers “....


Amen !!


........
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written by Michael Soh, January 24, 2008 01:31:47
Dear Mimag 2005,

Your new (01) to (12) can be explain. The bible does not contradict itself. If it does, than our God is a confuse God. It will however take a lot of time to go thru each one. I try my best and whenever I can find the time. I really appreciate if you can hold your harsh words and read the bible over and over again. The Holy Spirit will open our eyes to see things clearer as we read the Bible and Seek HIM ( not me or anyone)

For now, I got a fire to put out at another forum. Speak to you soon
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 06:30:15
Mikey !

01) I am at a disadvantage position to defend my claim that OT do provide such prophesy..??

How come you say… you at a disadvantage..????....

Let’s see… since you like numbers very much… I cuba cuba copy your style sikit..ok Sir ?

What are your Resources ..?

............3 - Gods ( I know you will say its 1 and NOT 3…relax ok… for kira kira purposes only)
............1 - Your Bible Knowledge… you know former PM say… knowledge is POWER..!! )
1,800,000,000 - Christiandom – ( the whole gamut of Christiandom’s machinery…)
.........................
1,800,000,004 - mathematical Total… in reality tak boleh kira ….lah..!!!

What are my Resources…??

........1 - ONE TRUE INDIVISIBLE ALMIGHTY GOD
........1 - myself
...................
........2 - total

Hello Sir,…. Can you see the numbers above or not….??? Still you want to say you at a disadvantage..eh..??


saya pagi2 bangun pegi kerja, cari duit beli susu kasi baby minum, anak mau sekolah, bas sekolah harga sudah naik, bini mau pegi pasar, jiran beli Chanel, bini tak mau kalah…mau beli Louis Vuitton…aiyah!! Hidup banyak susah..lo… !!

02) You use God’s the creator to instill fear on bloggers that oppose your views…?

I was only quoting from the bible…why should they fear if they believe that just by GRACE … SALVATION KOW TIM...

PAUL’s MATA sudah keluar “ SCALES “… Your human eyes got scales or no..!!! Why still Buta..!!!

… Ah ! Isn’t instilling fear part of the Neighbourhood Man with the GENTLE VOICE’s Godly function..?

…. I tell you.. some of these Operatives…Phew! … “ Softer than Silk “ man !!…you see the…

…. Innocent, Vulnerable, Gullible, Sincere, Good Hearted Followers jumping queue to be first in
….line, volunteering whole heartedly to be milked…..

…I feel sorry for them….they are oblivious…they are in the snare of “ intellectual Bondage “…..or…… …” Spiritual Bondage “ .. call whatever you like…..!!!!

…. I know Bloggers hate my guts… I’m not here for a popularity contest..… I am for TRUTH..!!!...

……I don’t make sweeping statements… I back up with quotations from the Bible…

…I thank the ONE , INDIVISIBLE , TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD for blessing me with sight so that I can
“ see “ what I read ..??







03) Your insistence of limiting OT prophecies to confirm NT events solely for Jesus resurrection.. your line of thoughts………..nothing more than a CROOKED ARGUMENT

Mikey…..inna dei…apa u tak paham paham … are you enjoying the “ ASSING “ and the “ ASSED “..??.

You want me to repeat again eh !.. a simple action Jesus did “ SITTING ON AN ASS “ CLEAR PROPHESY.

LIMA BUKU RECORDED THIS EVENT… CAN YOU IMAGINE…!!!!

I want to ask you and the other bloggers… how this ASS story… can give us SALVATION… cannot right..???

BUT STILL 5 BOOKS RECORDED THIS EVENT.. hey Mikey.. now is the time lah, put on your multi

dimensional thinking cap and come up with something of a “ causal “ kind to justify the recordings of 5 books.

Now…MAJOR EVENT LIKE “ RESURRECTION “ kenapa “ ill Lek …???“

If happen surely must have…!!!... Am I correct !!!

If don’t have means ..” NOTHING TO FORETELL “ … Am I correct !!!!....Still cannot accept !!!!


Ok lah … I kasi you SATU HOT TIP… depends how you look at it……… you know The late Yasser Arafat.. Leader of PLO / Palestine,…One of his famous sayings…”Martyr or Terrorist”…. He said ….it depends which point of the barrel you are looking at..!!

Don’t say I did not caution you…..Ah!!


Luke Ch 24 / 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,

that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED, WHICH WERE WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, and in

the prophets, and IN THE PSALMS, CONCERNING ME.45 Then opened he their understanding, that they

might understand the Scriptures,46 and said unto them, THUS IT IS WRITTEN, and thus it behooved Christ to

suffer, and TO RISE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY !!



Mikey…… Jesus is supposed to have said this……

We know Jesus is TRUTHFUL because he is The MESSIAH APPOINTED BY GOD….SO 100PCT WILL NOT LIE, UNLIKE PAUL,…

So we must ask ourselves.. did Jesus really said this… TO RISE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY..??

If yes… for sure we’ll find this Resurrection on the third day..” as it is written “….because its Jesus speaking & not the FATHER OF LIES speaking…….BUT……

If Jesus did not speak these words…that means…. We stumble onto another…. “ bulls@# t !!”…

…You know the Tetragrammaton Denomination… they claim there are 50,000 errors in the Bible.

I only know a few….( agak agak my fingers and toes combine) … how about you..??


Best of luck in your hunting..!!


......
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written by mimag2005, January 24, 2008 16:21:02
Hi Mikey,

written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 20:51:29

written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 20:55:12
written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 20:57:43
written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 20:59:11
Sambungan ke tiga.....final conclusion
written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 21:09:46

written by Michael Soh, January 24, 2008 | 01:31:47
Dear Mimag 2005,

01) Your new (01) to (12) can be explain. The bible does not contradict itself. If it does, than our God is a confuse God. It will however take a lot of time to go thru each one. I try my best and whenever I can find the time.


Mikey,

Sincerely, please take your time…but don’t too long….I think soon this posting will masuk Archive.

Mtime do you have time and stamina for my response on others..Tell you what, we don’t load each others OS..ok ?… you tell me which one you want to start first.

Erh btw… regarding Jesus as the Prophet to fulfil the 3 Prophesies… if you want to start this first…
please present macam PRO lah !..

Eg… take a cue from my Jonah’s presentation… present the facts with vividity


02) I really appreciate if you can hold your harsh words…

Brother,

Do you SEE, HEAR AND FEEL OR NOT…????

…….PAUL , ARROGANTLY AND WITH IMPUNITY ADMIT ON RECORD FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO KNOW THAT …..

HE HAD USED LIES, FALSEHOOD AND PRETENSE TO HOODWINK PROPHET ADAM’s DESCENDENTS i.e. The Elite,

Innocent, Vulnerable, Gullible, Sincere and Good Hearted to COMMIT BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE ONE

INDIVISIBLE TRUE GOD, THUS GETTING EVEN WITH HIS BIGGEST ENEMY PROPHET ADAM.


Please tell me will ANY MAN WITH AN OUNCE OF HUMANITY,... VOLUNTARILY AND ARROGANTLY DECLARE HIS

“ KARAT “ FOR POSTERITY “ AND LET HIS FUTURE GENERATIONS CARRY THE BURDEN OF SHAME…????

C’mon even the Taipans like Jardines and several other Famous Family names ( cant recollect at moment )

who made their money thru opium and gun running… Today they are a highly respected family name because

they managed to bury very , very deep their earlier karats.

Now do you think Paul, after the SUDDEN LIGHT FELL ON HIM FROM HEAVEN.. AND SUBSEQUENTLY THE SCALES

FELL OFF HIS EYES…was the same ‘ rascal Paul ‘ or as Elvis use to sing

…………………†¦..…. “ DEVIL IN DISGUISE “…??????...................


Brother you tell me..????



..................
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written by mimag2005, January 25, 2008 02:15:36
Hi Mikey,

Good evening !!

While you are constructing an ’ impregnable ‘ fort to protect the ‘ HOLY NAME ‘ of your leader paul and championing his brand of evangelism, I give below quotes from the following luminaries :

Historical Quotes Concerning Paul and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:
..................................................................................................


Carl Sagan (Scientist; Author)

"My long-time view about Christianity is that it represents an amalgam of two seemingly
immiscible parts--the religion of Jesus and the religion of Paul. Thomas Jefferson attempted to
excise the Pauline parts of the New Testament. There wasn't much left when he was done, but it
was an inspiring document." (Letter to Ken Schei [author of Christianity Betrayed])

Thomas Jefferson

"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." (All references not listed here, can be
found in Christianity Betrayed)


Albert Schweitzer
"Where possible Paul avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had
to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on
the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially
relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."


Wil Durant (Philosopher)

"Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of
Christ." . "Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ."


Walter Kaufmann (Professor of Philosophy, Princeton)

"Paul substituted faith in Christ for the Christlike life."


George Bernard Shaw

"No sooner had Jesus knocked over the dragon of superstition than Paul boldly set it on its
legs again in the name of Jesus."


Thomas Hardy
"The new testament was less a Christiad than a Pauliad."

Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar)

"As we have seen, the purposes of the book of Acts is to minimize the conflict between Paul and
the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, James and Peter. Peter and Paul, in later Christian
tradition, became twin saints, brothers in faith, and the idea that they were historically bitter
opponents standing for irreconcilable religious standpoints would have been repudiated with
horror. The work of the author of Acts was well done; he rescued Christianity from the
imputation of being the individual creation of Paul, and instead gave it a respectable pedigree,
as a doctrine with the authority of the so-called Jerusalem Church, conceived as continuous in
spirit with the Pauline Gentile Church of Rome. Yet, for all his efforts, the truth of the matter is
not hard to recover, if we examine the New Testament evidence with an eye to tell-tale
inconsistencies and confusions, rather than with the determination to gloss over and harmonize all difficulties in the interests of an orthodox interpretation." (The Mythmaker, p. 139,Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London, 1986)


Jeremy Bentham (English Philosopher)

"If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they needed look no farther than Paul." (Paraphrased. Looking for a copy of "Not Paul, but Jesus" in order to retrieve the exact quote.)

Carl Jung (Psychologist)

"Paul hardly ever allows the real Jesus of Nazareth to get a word in." (U.S. News and World
Report, April 22, 1991, p. 55)


Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."
(Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991).


So ...... Brother, I am not alone with such views on your " Boss "


...........
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written by temenggong, January 25, 2008 06:44:54
Mimag,

Good quotes and good posts! Refreshing and nostalgic for me.

Too much religion - the folly of youth, and everyone is inebriated these days.
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written by mimag2005, January 25, 2008 11:42:27
written by temenggong, January 25, 2008 | 06:44:54

Too much religion - the folly of youth, and everyone is inebriated these days.
..................................................................................

Absolutely Right !... when it concerns our own backyard… but not so when its others…!!!


.....
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written by mimag2005, January 25, 2008 13:58:19
Hi Temenggong !

EVERYONE salutes RPK for his “ FORTHRIGHTNESS “. Me included !

RPK takes the “ Bull by its Horn “… even towards his own..!!!!

When this and the earlier one was posted ,,,we see a “ long train “ of “ GLADIATORS “

putting forward their thoughts, suggestions, ideas AND LOTS OF WHACKINGS… etc etc.


On further scrutiny…we see a pattern of whacking because it is towards “ others “….

Since then these “ GLADIATORS “ have gone into twilight… why…?????........

…………………†¦..because its concerning our own backyard…… ?????............


We don’t have to search far for …. “ HYPOCRISY PERSONIFIED “…!!!!!…..




…………………†¦
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written by mimag2005, January 28, 2008 10:45:13
Hi Mikey,

Good morning !.... How was yr weekend ?

01) Mikey...how’s your progress on countering my 12 pointers ?...Still working on it ?

Tell you what… remember Teacher used to remind us during periksa time…
...Class, Class...remember always answer the easy questions first… the difficult ones keep to the last..
So if you find yourself bogged down with this 12 pointers.....take a break

02) Regarding your offer of Jesus as a suitable candidate for the 3 prophecies.

written by Michael Soh, January 23, 2008 | 20:51:29
Dear Mimag 2005,
In regards to what you wrote on January 22, 2008 | 23:34:56

(02) To answer your (02) question, I refer to your text dated January 15. where uou quoted these three bible verses
A.John 1:19/21-25
B.Deutronomy 18:18/19
C.Isaiah 29:12

B. Deutronomy 18:18/19 I will again encourage you to read up to Deu 18:22 to see the context. The prophet that Deutronomy 18 is taking about is Jesus.
...............................

Mikey.....for clarity of “ sight “ and “ mind “.. I will quote Deut Ch 18 Verse 18.....

......I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, LIKE UNTO THEE, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Mikey.....You have quoted many passages to stake your claim that these 3 prophesies were referring to Jesus.

I will give below 3 reasons why these 3 prophesies were not referring to Jesus by using 3 words from Deut 18/18…and why Jesus “ IS NOT LIKE MOSES “

“ Like unto thee “means like Moses
....................................


01) Moses was conceived in a natural way, when the husband and wife became one......

.....whereas Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit… So Jesus is not like Moses

02) Moses got a natural father and mother… where as Jesus only got natural mother..
So Jesus is not like Moses

03) Moses died in a natural way and his body was buried … whereas Jesus was “ crucified “ and his body is in heaven… So Jesus is not like Moses.

I can give you many more reasons why Jesus is not like Moses but… for now 3 will suffice.

I had requested you on 24th Jan, whether you wud like to resubmit your case in more convincing and clear manner. I guess you must be tied up with other assignments.

So what you say......now my turn to submit my candidate… based on records from the Holy Bible.....Just give me 24 hours to compile the datas and make my presentation.

Tell you what, this candidate of mine must also “ pass the test “ of another prophesy......

........remember the “ Rejected Stone “ in Matthew Ch 21 : 33-46

So.......how........deal.....?



" Comparative Religion "


................
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written by Anti Jihadist, February 15, 2008 02:53:43
RPK says, "It is not that Islam is violent or that Islam teaches violence. It is that all religions are violent and all religions teach violence."

But, RPK, Islam ‘is’ an inherently violent and fanatical faith. It is all written in the holy book of Quran. So please stop lying to us and face the facts.

The problem with Islam lies not only in the holy book, but it lies in the life of the prophet himself. Muslims incessantly proclaim that the mainstream schools of thought misinterpret the holy book of Quran, yet they fail to recognize that the prophet of Allah lived such an unholy life himself and it is due to his narcissistic life and personality that his followers savagely follow his behavior.
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written by Avanza1, February 16, 2008 02:07:55
perhaps we have to gain more understanding of what we are dealing with. We need to read more to know deeper.
**http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/index.html
**http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html
**http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html

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written by Avanza1, February 16, 2008 02:14:12
minag2005,

didn't know were here too. Great stamina you have, God bless you.
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written by mimag2005, February 25, 2008 18:06:54

Hi Avanza !

written by Avanza1, February 16, 2008 | 02:14:12

minag2005,

didn't know were here too.....
..............................

Why are you going about like a " wandering Jew ....???".....

We have unfinished biz at Blogsite " ALL THAT IS HARAM ".

Surprising when Panca Indera told you earlier that he was ending dialogue with you...yet you persist to ' gate crash ' on an unwilling party.

I am waiting for you to pull another stunt...!

mtime happy wandering..


.... Any feedback from ground control " earth's 4 Corners..."...???


.......
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