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It’s a matter of civility and etiquette PDF Print
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Tuesday, 15 September 2009 18:08

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Malaysians have a lot to learn about the concept of agreeing to disagree. Today, I am bitterly opposed to Najib. But I still give him the respect due to him although I whack him to kingdom come. And I have told Najib’s brother that I quite like the man although I am opposed to him and will not slow down on the Altantuya issue.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

When I write, I always refer to Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim as just Anwar Ibrahim (the Umno Blogs call him BABI, though, short for Brother Anwar Bin Ibrahim). But when I meet Anwar face-to-face I address him as ‘Datuk Seri’.

And the same goes for all those others who hold Datuk, Datuk Seri or Tan Sri titles as well -- whether they are from the ruling party, the opposition, or the head of the police like Musa Hassan. When I write, I refer to them by their names. I even refer to Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak as Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak, without the ‘Datuk Seri’ title (although I don’t drop the ‘Tun’ in his father’s name and add ‘Prime Minister’ in front of his name).

This has been my normal practice. Friends and foes alike are referred to by their names without their Tan Sri, Datuk Seri or Datuk titles. Tunku Abdul Rahman is referred to simply as ‘the Tunku’. That is because there is only one First Prime Minister of Malaysia and he is fondly called ‘the Tunku’ by all and sundry.

Abdullah Ahmad Badawi asked to be called Pak Lah. So, in keeping with his wishes, I refer to him as Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, the first time he is mentioned, and thereafter as Pak Lah whenever I further mention his name in that same article. As for the others such as Tun Razak Hussein, Tun Hussein Onn and Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, I always include the ‘Tun’ in their names the first time I mention them and thereafter I refer to them just by their names.

In short, only the ‘Tun’, the highest title in the land, gets mentioned while all other ‘lower’ titles need no mentioning. But when I am talking to them then I address them by their titles. This is proper etiquette and the most civilised thing to do, even if they are ‘the enemy’.

When I met Tunku Rahman on his 80th birthday celebration in the Park Royal Hotel in Kuala Lumpur back in the 1980s, I kissed his hand in spite of the fact I was opposed to him and felt that he could have done more for this country but did not. And I also kiss Dr Mahathir’s hand whenever I happen to meet him face-to-face, as I would any ex-prime minister of Malaysia and someone who is much older to me.

Heck, I even refer to MGG Pillai as Mister Pillai and I address him so when I am talking to him face-to-face. He is Mister to me because he is older than me. And he used to address me as just Petra and not as Raja or Tengku whenever we met, which was quite often before he died.

I acknowledge the status and age of the ex-Prime Ministers of Malaysia, even the ones I don’t like. And I give them the respect due to them. We can disagree with these people on the basis of ideology and principle. But that does not take away the fact that they hold a certain position in our community plus the fact that they are older than us. And because of that we must conduct ourselves in a certain manner when in their presence and give them due respect befitting their age.

This probably makes me ‘old Malay’. And I mean old in values rather than in age when I say this. Therefore, garlanding Dr Mahathir with slippers is not something I would do, never mind what I may think of him.

My friends are extremely puzzled as to why I appear to give Dr Mahathir that amount of respect. They would imagine after what happened to me at the hands of Dr Mahathir during the Reformasi years I would spew insults on the man.

Sure, I was probably one of those who opposed Dr Mahathir bitterly. And I paid for that by getting arrested and one month later getting detained under the Internal Security Act back in 2001. “So why have I not demanded my pound of flesh?” ask my very confused friends.

Malaysians have a lot to learn about the concept of agreeing to disagree. Today, I am bitterly opposed to Najib. But I still give him the respect due to him although I whack him to kingdom come. And I have told Najib’s brother that I quite like the man although I am opposed to him and will not slow down on the Altantuya issue.

Does this sound strange? How can I like Najib yet in the same breath swear to bring him down? Well, I never said I was not a strange person.

Once, when Khairy Jamaluddin walked into the room and came over to my table, I stood up and offered him a seat. And I did not sit down until he had first sat down. You would imagine that after what I had written about him we would have come to blows rather than sit and smoke cigars together and engage in a matured and gentlemanly two hours discussion on the Malaysian political scene.

His Highness the Sultan of Selangor is my cousin, twice removed. Tuanku’s father, the late Agong, and my late father were cousins. The late Agong referred to my late father as ‘Abang Din’ (meaning ‘Elder Brother Din’ – Din is short for Kamarudin). Tuanku’s grandfather was the younger brother to my grandmother. That was why my late father was ‘abang’ to the late Agong.

In that sense that makes His Highness the present Sultan of Selangor my adek (younger brother) as well. But Tuanku does not call me ‘abang’. First of all he is the Sultan, so he is higher in rank than me. Plus, our ages are almost the same, maybe only three years or so difference in age. Therefore, I call him ‘Tuanku’ and he calls me Petera.

When my late father went into conflict with the late Agong, my father reminded the Agong that he (my father) is abang while Tuanku is adek (actually, that was how the conflict started). So Tuanku had better not forget that. Invariably, my father was dropped from the palace ‘protocol list’ and never again received an invitation to the palace till the day he died. In fact, the Agong did not even attend my father’s funeral although he was buried in the Royal Mausoleum in Kelang.

I know the Sultan of Selangor is very upset with me for mentioning this a few months ago in one of my articles. But that is a fact of history, which can never change however you may wish to rewrite history. And I also know that the Sultan whacked me in the presence of many senior Selangor government officials, the Menteri Besar and EXCO members included. My nemesis the IGP was also there and he was smiling away with delight just like the cat that had swallowed the canary to see me get whacked in public by no less than the Sultan himself.

I disagree with what the Sultan did. I have, in fact, never forgotten or forgiven Tuanku and his late father for ‘boycotting’ my father’s funeral. But he is the Sultan, as was his father before him, and I ‘allow’ him that prerogative of demonstrating his displeasure against one of his subjects even if that subject is senior to you. And my late father is a subject of the Sultan of Selangor. I even have his old certificate to prove it.

I received a command, a royal command, through my family. And that royal command was to apologise to the Sultan of Perak on what I wrote about the Perak Constitutional Crisis that resulted in the collapse of the Pakatan Rakyat state government. If I refuse to do that then the family would insert full-page advertisements in the mainstream newspapers chiding me for my actions, which the family regards as treason.

In Malaysia, treason is punishable by death, as what happened to the Al Maunah crowd who were found guilty of treason against the Agong and subsequently hanged. For a member of the royal family, treason against the Ruler is punishable by banishment from the state. In the past, many members of the royal family, a few Sultans included, were banished from the state and sent into exile on various islands in the Indian Ocean where they would end their sorry days.

In fact, if you were to read the history of our National Anthem, Negaraku, you will know that this song was 'created' by the Sultan of Perak who was then living in exile in the Seychelles.

As I said, I am ‘old Malay’. And ‘old Malays’ do not garland people with slippers. And as I have displeased the Ruler and since the family has labelled me a penderhaka, someone who has committed treason, then I accept the punishment for treason befitting a member of the family. I do not condemn the Sultan and call him binatang (like what Umno Terengganu did) or garland his picture with slippers.

MIC should have taken action immediately, not only after the brouhaha and only after it looked like Samy Vellu needed to engage in damage control. The action that MIC has just taken is too little, too late. The damage has already been done. MIC must learn how to agree to disagree with proper etiquette and protocol.

MIC has demonstrated biadap (insolence). Suspending the member who committed the offence many days later is too little, too late.

Comments (115)Add Comment
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written by MsLim, September 15, 2009 18:41:31
This is what we call "etiquette" which sometimes educated men and women do not practice. Only refine gentlemen and ladies practice such etiquette. Our Raja Petra is one of them. God bless Raja Petra and his love ones.
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written by educationist, September 15, 2009 18:43:03
To me, respect must be earned.
No doubt, in public meetings as with the social norms here I , too defer to the seniors and so called leaders.
But if they are not worthy of respect, I will keep my peace and make a quick exit.
I have no wish to put on a mask on their account.
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written by Arowana, September 15, 2009 18:52:37
The fundamental virtues of being right or wrong has been completely manipulated, steam-rolled and force down the throats of the Rakyat by UNMO/BN gomen all these half decade.

Social norms and practices by Rakyat also has come under attack by by media and cow-heads. Are we not living in fear and agony ? All has been said and seen for it's time to change to PR.
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written by wongnoball, September 15, 2009 19:04:01
Raja Petra

You have a problem. You need to deal with Givers and Takers in your life. The more you try to appease the takers...ala all those rubbish leaders you mentioned, they will DRAIN you DRY & you will feel empty and angry. Fill yourself with people who are givers like youself and your perspective of life will be different.

Meanwhile I disagree with you on being civil to Scums. I also disagree with you on the songkok protocol. I do not know why you like to defend FACADE, its empty and useless to the end game of making a better Malaysia!! Selamat Eid!!
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written by sydput, September 15, 2009 19:33:47
They sent RPk to the wrong confinement place. it was supposed to be tanjung rambutan, not kamunting.
Kissing mahathir's or anyone else's hand is like submitting to the fact that all men are not born as equals.
hang jebat saw this and tried to change history and malay thingking for the better.
MIC should have not only give the slipper garland to mahathir, but hanged him as well.
Looks like I have to hang around in other blogs that are more beneficial to the malaysian race in future.
this one seems to be stuck in the feudal age.
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written by krising1, September 15, 2009 19:37:02
The violent and disrespectful language have been spawned and abetted by the UMNOputras. What kind of kid can say that he will bury DSAI in Permatang Pauh? Which idiot said that Nizar's head should be severed from his neck? We have to give back as good as they gave. No one from UMMOO condemned the rowdy behaviour of the UMMOO sponsored terrorists who treated elected officials with such disrespect. A lady was even threatened with rape. Karpal Singh in a wheel chair was hounded by a group of UMNO hooligans. And Khairy defended their action. Dog-faced Kerismudin defended the Shah Alam gangsters. Civility cannot just come from one side. The bigger and stronger one must show it first. RPK, you may have to re-examine your views on this matter.
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written by KotaDamansara73, September 15, 2009 19:40:14
One time, I was attending a Church in Sweeden and I found out that no young people are in the church. In Sweden, Holland, Germany or other Northern and Eastern Europe, not many young people goes to church anymore. And that is why the society progress so fast and far.

Malaysia is still fill with protocols. Indonesia has got rid of their Sultans and Kings. Which I believe is good for the nation. Otherwise, people will be prosecuted for simply voicing their displeasure against another person.

WHy are these people born higher than us? Unless they have done a lot for the society, I see no reason to bow to them. Otherwise, I don't want to see them. I don't want them to come to my house.

I have more respect for the founder of ******, Facebook, wikipedia and Yahoo then all these rulers. I don't see how they can contribute to the progress of the society. They seems to be a hindrance to the progress of a society.
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written by Kampong, September 15, 2009 19:43:05
So how do you tell a UMNO member to go to hell? "Please go to hell, Datuk, Tan Sri, Tun".
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written by Super Admin, September 15, 2009 19:48:44
Dear krising1, and all the more reason why we should be different and show them that we are made from better stuff. You don't get down on your hands and knees and bite the dog just because the dog bit you as well. And that is why a dog is a dog and we are not.
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written by Super Admin, September 15, 2009 19:51:14
Dear KotaDamansara73, do you also tell your father and the other elders in your family this as well? Just because they happen to have been born before you does not mean you have to treat them as 'highers'.
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written by Anti Relon, September 15, 2009 19:51:50
Thank you for this article. You made my day.
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written by Raja Petra, September 15, 2009 19:55:06
Dear wongnoball, and that is exactly what makes us both very different from each other.
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written by krising1, September 15, 2009 19:58:40
Dear Super Admin, there is only so far one can bend backwards. I have never run away from any dog in my life. I face them and if they still come, I kick them in the teeth. But I will consider your advice though at age 66 ...........???
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written by KotaDamansara73, September 15, 2009 20:09:06
Superadmin,

My parents born me, whereas the sultan and the rulers didn't do anything for the society. They are there because the Malay community are feudalistic. There is nothing more to it.

This Tan Sri, Datuk Seri and Tun title is inflated. It has no value anymore. Because the people who has this title has disgrace the title.

Malaysia will be better off being a republic.

The Malay sultan own the land. The Malays own the Land. SO what? They can't do anything progressive with it. They contribute nothing to the progress of mankind.
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written by cruzeiro, September 15, 2009 20:09:40
Pete Sir,
You say that you whack whoever in public, and then would kiss his hand in person. Very interesting .... and totally twisted, man - wicked!

There is a problem in your argument - I really wonder what the whole idea is..... maybe the kisser can please the kissee, I suppose. Maybe you are, as you say, old school.
As for me, I'd rather the whacker not turn a kisser in front of me .....

Maybe the man who suggested a Garland of slippers, just like you, was old school as well - I bet, he not only would kiss the man's hand, he'd even kiss the man's @$$ at the first opportunity.

Anyway, I'm thinking of donating all the old slippers to MIC so that they can make garlands for themselves and their buddies in BN ....
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written by C360, September 15, 2009 20:12:28
I agree with some of you. Etiquette is etiquette. But like some of you, i would not give two hoots about scumbags, whosoever they are. In a public group environment I would do the minimum etiquette in accordance with the occassion, IF UNAVOIDABLE. Other than that, NOT IN FRONT OF MY EYES. Not that i would attend any functions involving scumbags.
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written by cruzeiro, September 15, 2009 20:14:28
BTW, I think that delegate deserves a datukship for emulating Hishamuddin's uncouth behaviour at AGMs ....
So if he needs to apologize for the Garland statement, and his suspension insufficient - the same is all the more true in the Krisman's case .... especially after defending the insult to Islam, Hinduism and humanity, at Section 23.
And the Krisman has the audacity to speak of leading by example and earning respect!!
Shameless bigots!!
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written by Dora, September 15, 2009 20:16:21
Dear RPK, i do agree that we have to respect our elders and those of position in the society, community. But I have never come across anyone who would accord the same respect and civility to someone who has wronged them in one way or another, until now that is. I guess that's what makes you stand apart from the rest of us.

What the MIC delegate suggested is typical of 'tamil movie' mentality. And I being an Indian am truly ashamed that this person displayed such crudeness.
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written by C360, September 15, 2009 20:24:48
And if a dog bit me .. I would put it out of it's misery
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written by hellosunshine, September 15, 2009 20:28:41
RPK, I kinda understand your old Malay feudal mindset when it comes to respecting old tyrants but asking me to to kiss their hands will be too much for me. I would most probably puke on their hands.
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written by KotaDamansara73, September 15, 2009 20:29:30
Slipper or no slipper, don't look too much into it. They are just showing their displeasure against Mahathir. That's it. Don't go and talk until as though there is some new discovery in that slipper that can replace oil.

Will the Malay community willing to jail Mahathir if he is found to be guilty of corruption and abuse of power? I don't think so.

Look at Taiwan and Korea. All their corrupted leaders are jailed because they are a progressive society. No matter how much contribution a leader has done, he will be jailed if he is found to be corrupted and abuse his power given by the people.

The people in Malaysia don't know it. The Malays will never accept this. So, how to progress?

Continue to sell ringgit and buy Singapore dollar, Australia dollars and other progressive countrie's currency.
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written by KotaDamansara73, September 15, 2009 20:37:01
The top 4 teams in Premier league will always be there. The Man U, The Chelsea, Arsernal and Liverpool.

Same goes to the top progressive race in Asia. The Japanese, Koreans and Chinese.

Malays will always be where they are for the past 400 - 500 years.
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written by Kopi37, September 15, 2009 20:56:44
If the Royalties in our Country can rise up to match the heights of many other beloved Kings, like the King of Thailand, just to name one, there would have no problem for us to kiss the hands of the Highness King, even to wash his shoes, will have no regret whatsoever!

But our king here?..Errr, cakap tak serupa pikin, had lost dignity and respects to the contributing citizens to the Nation's well beings (by contributing their taxes law-abidingly), and respect rule of law, are virtually contributing to the livelihood of the royalties as well!

Perak fiasco is one laughing stock where the Royalty's yellow silk had been tainted! I can still recall what Raja Nasrin was stridently calling for scouring of corrupted scums and that no one is above the law and FC is the supreme law, the life and spirit of the Nation blah..blah..but, what had he done to prove he lived to the standard of what he spoke, with the oratories?!

As least Pete is sincere. He told us guys here how he would behave and the reasons behind all his actions. He's no hypocrite! For the rest of the dignities, VVIPs that Pete has mentioned in this article, I have no comment!

Even if there's, any comment, will not be nice to the ears!
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written by ibabonma, September 15, 2009 21:00:57
But, how to give our respect to Najis?
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written by Saint, September 15, 2009 21:09:22
Dear RPK, There is much difference between respect and show of obedience to "negative characters". Respect has to be given to elders and to the "post" one is holding. If I meet the present IGP, the most I will do is nod my head in respect for his age and the post of IGP. But I will not want to shake hands with him; for I consider him a "negative character". That however does not give me the right to throw a pig's head in his office or tear up his photograph. That is a punishable crime. But if I say I like to kick him, that shows my "uncivilized" character, but I feel no actual harm was done. Sorry I do not agree with your (on this) view, but you have all the right to say what you want, and as far as I am concerned, no harm has been done.
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written by bn haramjadah, September 15, 2009 21:18:58
Raja Petra, you are old school indeed. To me even if I disagree with the policies of the Pm or the Sultan, it does not mean I have to disrespect the office they represent, call me old fashioned but I do agree with you on this point. I say look beyond the man, even if you disrespect the man you still have to respect what their position represents - I may hate the BN government but that does not give me the right to burn the Jalur Gemilang. That is something we as Malaysian have to learn how to understand. If we do not respect our elders, what examples are we showing our children to follow. What I love about Malaysia and Malaysian customs, which my foreign born wife found perplexing at first, was our civility and etiquette, our old school way of calling people older than us as Uncle, Auntie,pak chik, Mak chik, Kak, adik etc.It shows OUR CULTURAL DIFFERENCE- from other nations - We do not loose anything by being polite, a smile and a pat on the shoulders goes a long way than being rude. More things get done than rudeness and biadap-ness.
Now for my view which may be off topic but related, I have a very strong suspicion that with this Garland of slippers, insults, attacks on Mahathir- outsiders disturbing our inner affairs, trading of barbs.
This to my gut feel is all a Sendiwara. We all know Samy and all those thambys' of MIC are all, Umno's ASS LICKERS- in tamil SUTEYH MANAMS, Since when has MIC ever dared to insult the Malays whether from Umno or other malays for that matter, Where have they suddenly grown balls to insult Mahathir? WHY have they all of a sudden grown big brass balls? Even Badawi dare not do that? WHY? Ask your self this question - where is all this going to lead? Were the Mic elections for the position for Samy vellu's position i.e. President of MIC? So why all the drama, Subra was a vice president for a long time and even he couldn't budge Samy.
Let me tell you what I see happenning here, this 'Garland of slippers', 'Cow head incident' OPS LALLANG, remember how it started?, Umno says something- Gerakan responds, DAP and Pas leaders get arrested under ISA!
This whole thing is to create a racial fight a la May 13 1969 or a Kampung Medan scenario, it is all an act to create a Malays vs Indian riot, don't fall into this trap I say, and to PKR leaders forget about wooing Subra and his supporters, you understand what I am trying to say, maybe you could pass this word around or express it better.
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written by arazak, September 15, 2009 21:19:11
Dear Pete,

As what you have said to wagonball, no two people are the same.

For you, you can still kiss the hand of whoever had slapped you (well not physically)! But you must remember that for some people, retribution is the only way to appease them. And, in different societies, they view the act of retribution differently. That guy, Muntazeer al-zaidi, who threw his shoes at George Bush may seems to be a villain to George Bush supporters. But to the majority of the Arabs, he is a hero. Under the same token, the MIC youth who intended (and maybe doing) to garland TDM portrait with foot-wares is a “kurang ajar” person to the UMNO members and maybe to you too. But to the MIC members, he is a hero!

Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim (DSAI) may have forgiven Toon Kutty (sorry, I just could not address him as TDM anymore. . ., it’s just not me) for having the then IGP beating him senseless almost paralyze and throw him in jail for some trump up charges. You also might have forgiven Bakri Zinin for beating you up good and proper (I mean physically) with your hands cuffed behind your back. But, if I was in DSAI or in YOUR situation, no way am I going to forgive them and on top of that, kissing their asses. . ., oops sorry, their hands. The hands of tyrant, “zalimun” persons!

If a “Zalimun” person took away my dignity and do something bad to me accusing me of something which is false, heck. . .I will not forgive him and will demand for retribution from my Creator if I meet him on judgment day!

Many people say God is forgiving. Well Pete, I am not God!
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written by Angela Ooi, September 15, 2009 21:20:20
With due respect on this matter, I agree to disagree but you are still my top WIRA
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written by Caretaker_y, September 15, 2009 21:26:04
Dear YM RPK
Thank you for the reminder to be of civility & etiquette even to the one/those we disagree or even done hurt to us.
I still remember the saying that goes thus, "God hates the sins but loves the sinner"
Humanly speaking, it is very hard & difficult to forgive & forget.
I still believe in, "To err is human, to forgive is divine" That is why many a time I even find difficult to address a crooked IGP, PM, Head of MACC, AG etc etc in the way it should be.
Civility & etiquette is definitely a sign of maturity of manhood & womanhood.
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written by JIVJAGO, September 15, 2009 21:34:35
Diapers and politicians are alike becoz both needs to be changed regularly.

Both parents(mom n dad) followed by spiritual master then finally god shud be given the utmost respect.

Respecting someone just becoz of his bodily designation or position doesnt hold any ground.

All man are created equal but at the same time not all man are equal in quality.

Humility,compassion,mercy,non-violence,truthfulness, etc shown by anyone to any species of life which includes woman,children,elderly person,spiritual masters,animals gets the utmost respect from my point of view.

The happiness we are experiencing in this material world is as a drop of water compared to the vast ocean.All of us need to return back to our original abode.

All these designations are nothing but illusion(maya) look beyond with your naked eyes.
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written by lynn, September 15, 2009 21:40:29
Okay, we hear you. But I still adamantly refused to refer to that rustam guy by his title. That one is one awful species many wud agree with me.

On a separate note, did anyone hear the news ... one short sentence: IJM bidding for the LCCT 2bil project? The govt is going ahead with it but do we need another LCCT? Along with another project, LRT and also they hv this Arab city development in Melaka. What abt that rustam fler's idea of RM44bil bridge connect this 3rd world country to another 3rd world country (gawd help us) .. do commentators and zombied citizens of la-la land realised the govt will proceed with some expensive wasteful projects whether you protest or not?

Are they going to drain our EPF? Where is the money coming from?
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written by InEffective, September 15, 2009 21:41:25
hmm - so RPK believes in blind unquestioned deference to culture-rules-norms, authority-by-status, and/or seniority.

Here is my view - a progressive peoples will never ever allow mindless deference and blind allegiances to illegitimate authority-behavior-actions regardless of status, seniority, positional-status.

I for one will never ever trade-off the rights,freedoms, opportunities of my children and/or my relatives, and for that matter any other child.

I am NOT like the gutless MIC who has traded away the futures of the Indians (for 2 generations) for their selfish freecashflows, political positioning objectives, and cowardice -

Now witness once again the squealing MIC apologizing when the racist nationalist groups who have discriminated, strategically excluded and denied opportunities, and religiously and physically treatened their children and families with assault.

If the MIC had any self-respect, the entire 1400 delegates should have garlanded DRM with slippers and thrown all their shoes. Maybe they would have gained some self-dignity and credibility as representatives. Now all they do is depict how a politician will sell out the rights and quality-of-life of his own family and relatives and friends and children.

RPK views illustrates how our strong asian traditions, cultural upbringing, cultural beliefs and values, religious tolerance can prevent a man (even if he can distinguish right from wrong) from challenging and confronting filth and evil head on.

This internal conflict in how we see ourselves, what we value, versus the steps that we must and should take to confront evil, limits our ability to rise and do the right thing.
(this is exactly why good decent upstanding citizens refuse to stand up to evil - now witness burma, zimbabwe, thailand, and malaysia conditions....)

RPK is not the only one who suffers this predicament, all of us do if you are asian. And if you want to remove and eradicate this filth and evil of racism, oppression, discrimination etc, you better not allow your cultural values and traditions to limit your ability in confront cunning politicians who are attacking and enslaving your family and children.

Its way beyond agreeing to disagree.
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written by lynn, September 15, 2009 21:51:39
RPK,

This country could have been a better place without all these titles; all men and women are referred to as plain Mr or Madam or Miss. No discrimination, no putting someone on the pedestal or giving preferential treatment to politicians. This country is all screwed up because we have to 'hormat' all these politicians who became 'masters' and went on a endless corruption spree for decades.

Imagine 5 or 10 years from now, a prison that can house some 10,000 inmates of which 90% are crooked ex-ministers and ex-politicians, well, make my day - please, go ahead, Tun, yes Tan Sri, no Dato Seri, shut up Datuk, or we will put u in solitary confinement for 1 mth.... ha ha ha ..... the world's first - a prison full of latoks, tansris...
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written by Rolling Stone, September 15, 2009 22:33:56
Dear Raja Petra<
I dont agree with your thoughts and approach on this.You drop my "water face" man...
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written by freaque, September 15, 2009 22:34:31
KotaDamansara73.. you sound like a racist ugly capitalist.

RPK... how could you give a murderer or someone deeply involved in a murder any form of respect what so ever. Especially when he refuses to repent or admit that grave sin. of course we can agree to disagree, and you still have my deepest respect.
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written by medicshan, September 15, 2009 22:49:10
I am no MIC supporter, but all that delegate did was suggest that the cunning ex-PM be garlanded as such. He did not, repeat, did not garland the PM.
If you disagree, disagree-lah. He had a chance to speak, and he aired his frustration and disgust at that double-tongued YAB Tun, and that is all he did.

Many, before him, have said and DONE worse things to his community.
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written by nphew, September 15, 2009 22:50:50
They are too stupid to understand " two wrongs don't make a right", that idiotic delegate was too anxious to "bodek" Semi Value
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written by OVERLORD, September 15, 2009 22:59:28
I wonder if Shariibuu Setev would address his daughter's murderer as Dato Seri...hmmmmmm.......Sorry RPK, not on the same page as you on this one.....etiquette and civility is only given to those who really deserve it whether they are a "dato" or "no dato".......personally, i can't just stand by and smile at bloody thieves and murderers...
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written by Jit Dharma, September 15, 2009 23:48:13
Bro.RPK, I can appreciate your gentle humility, bowing to kiss his hand, to impress upon him a forgiving soul, that could move him to be a better person. But unfortunately, his treatment of you and other citizens has made him a traitor ( what is a persecutor of the innocent but a traitor to the human race and God ) and deserving of our contempt.
I hate tyrants, and if one were to wrong me, I would pluck his eyes out with a pair of pliers and spit into his hollow sockets, if I had the chance, that is.Mostly I avoid bastids, you should try that sometime.The world is full to the brim with iceholes who don't give even a grain of respect yet would demand a lorry load from you.
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written by chipon, September 15, 2009 23:48:37

I agree with Pete on this. We may hate a person but we still have to respect the chair he sits on. And when refer a person as Datuk Seri or Tan Sri, its solely because we respect that title, not the person.

When a these Tan Sris do shit, we still have to address them as Tan Sris, even later when we throw them in jail for the wrongs that they did..it goes like "Tan Sri, you are wrong and now you shall be hanged for your crimes!"..
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written by Shiva, September 15, 2009 23:49:51
what i am about to say here has nothing to do with this party or that party, but more about the character of certain individuals. what the MIC delegate did is a reflection of specifically himself and generally about the indians. what hurts most is, its a total disgrace that he calls himself a hindu, because his actions have tarnished the 5000 year old culture.

Just because Tun gave his opinion, it doesn't mean he is right or wrong. its up to the individual the generaously accept it or not. the delegates comments gives a perspective of how he respects his parents, wheather alive or dead, already garlaned with a string of slippers tied together.

As for Samy, the most noble thing for a leader of his age (put aside him being a failure); will be to generously say TUN, Sorry. Samy in a fatherly position should not set this actions as a precedent to hurt and destroy the culture.

i for one, as a hindu - would like to express my sincere apologies, eventhough i do acceept the reality of damage, putting aside my political believes.
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written by Oscar Winner, September 15, 2009 23:50:58
Dear Pete,

If I like a person, then he must have the qualities that I admire. If I whack najis, it's because I know he deserves to be whacked. And when he deserves to be whacked, he must have, in my eyes, done very bad things, like the C4 crime, wielding the kris and promising to bathe it in chinese blood, etc etc. If he had done bad things, he will not have the qualities I admire. How can then I bring myself to like him?

I tell you, if all those goons continue to cheat, plunder and apply machinations to win power, and we still kiss their hands, they will get the wrong message, man! That's why they are so bloody arrogant, thinking that they are all forgiven when they see themselves still liked by the rakyat.

No....sorry Dear Pete, I can't accept it. So far they haven't apologised for the kris episode, the cow-head episode, the corruption, the death of TBH and Kugan, and all other misdeeds. How can I shake Najis hand, knowing that as I shake his right hand he may have a kris in his left hand, and me as "pendatang" in his head??

I'm waiting for them to kiss my hand instead. Afterall we are the boss, not them
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written by goman2k3, September 15, 2009 23:51:12
RPK,

That is why you have been in exile and they are having a great time in Malaysia. You can blog but you cannot be at home. How sad but like you said you are a strange man. One man meat is another man poison. Best of luck to you and family and Selamat Buka Puasa.
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written by Steven Ong, September 15, 2009 23:57:29
In the USA, and many other civilised country, they dont give titles to anyone, like Tun, Tan Sri or Datuk or Your Royal Highness. The president is just president, the prime minister is just prime minister, the queen or king is just king or queen. If by giving a title to someone who has done his job, then everyone should received a title. Why is a person given a Tun or a Datuk ? Because he or she has done a lot or more than the rest? Therfore the rest should show more respect to him/her? ( And he/she could gain more financialy ? He/she already have received their rewards ) If the rest were not to perform his/her job could the Tun and Datuk achieved anything? If the rest were taken away from the earth, what the Tuns and Datuks do? You see - its a collective effort and no individual is to be honoured more than the rest. We should respect all regardless of creed or age. We complained when a younger person did not show respect to one older than him/her, but we called it child abuse if one older were to show disrespect to one younger.Can we reverse the terms? Called it old man abuse or old woman abuse next time. Humans are very good at naming things and making rules and laws for their own good or gains. Its not about respect actually. Like you said, Mr Petra, you respect all. That is what all should do, the Tuns and Datuks are unnecessary. If we respect others then we would not insult or kill or hurt or put someone in jail without trial.
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written by Dora, September 15, 2009 23:59:17
SuperAdmin,

What's so lowly about my comments? Why is it rated as such? is it another case of our MT readers' infamous understanding of the english language!! sheesh...
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written by ATSaari, September 16, 2009 00:38:29
Dear Pete,
I honestly envy your mannerism and etiquette. I did notice a lot of time in your writing of what you are trying to say in this article. I am so envious because no matter how hard I try I still could not bring myself to a pinch of respect for this Najib Pervert. My days will be a happy one if I can passed it without hearing the mention of his name, watching him on TV or hearing him push forward his rhetorical garbage 'Malaysia, whatever with the rakyat and what in the world with performance' (though I occassionally remember part of the phrase during sex, "1Time Mama, performance first and you are my priority!". The worst day for me will be the day I saw him on TV or wherever with Rosmah. I couldn't even have the mood for sex on that kind of day. If the government is embarking on the need of population to grow, these two perverts (see..I could not even type their names) will be the spoiler 'contraceptive'.
But I still do have much respect for Tun Mahathir even I have doubt in him and so does Tun Abdullah even though his achievement are closer to nothing, he is a very nice person, at least he didn't bomb some Mongolian bimbo.
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written by SotPlug, September 16, 2009 01:03:55
Garlanding pictures with slippers is not about etiquette or respect. It is purely a childish and pointless act that is not even worth the ink and paper (or keyboard taps?).

Speaks a lot about the maturity, IQ and EQ levels of the party.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:02:12
Dear Steven Ong, I agree, and it is the Chinese towkays who are the main culprits in buying titles. Why do they spend so much money buying 'honour'? It really baffles me how stupid these Chinese towkays can be. Don't you agree?
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:04:44
Dear ATSaari, I agree, and you are one who of those needs a lesson in manners. That 'Mongolian bimbo' you referred to is highly intelligent, more than you can ever be, and speaks more languages than you. I hope you don't also shout 'bimbo' to your mother.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:07:52
Dear Dora, sorry about that. Most readers who comment here only tolerate one view, their view, and they don't take kindly to anyone expressing opposite views. You see, most of those who comment here are fighting for freedom of speech and they are very angry with BN for not respecting free speech. These are noble people with a noble cause. I trust you will from now on only post comments the people here can agree with and not comments which you feel are correct.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:09:37
Dear Oscar Winner, sorry if I don't reply to your comment. My reply would be wasted anyway.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:16:12
Dear Jit Dharma, before we execute someone we allow him to bathe and dress up properly. We will even arrange for a barber to give him a shave and haircut if he so wishes. Then we allow him the dignity of walking in a dignified manner to the gallows (not dragged in chains). And if he is of a higher rank than us we would salute him and call him 'Sir'. Then we put the rope around his neck and pull the lever. Then we lower his body and place it in the coffin and send an escort of honour to accompany the body when the body is returned to the family.

Many of you here may not understand what I am saying. That is because I am talking about one thing while you are whining about something else. If I have to explain this to you then I will not bother because you are not of that level where you would ever understand what I am saying.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:20:41
Dear OVERLORD, if you really need to know, I would slit the throat of the man who killed my daughter. And I will do it personally because he would have to die at my hands. And no amount of bodyguards can keep him safe from me because anyone who stands in my way will also have to die.

Does that answer your question?
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:22:23
Dear lynn, what has that got to be with being civilised? I don't see the connection between what I wrote and what you commented.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:24:17
Dear hamid, I suppose you are from that breed of people who would spit and step on a cow head to make a point. Can you now see why you would never accept my value system?
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:26:18
Dear InEffective, you have just demonstrated the art of talking a lot but saying nothing. Quiet ineffective if you want to win a debate though, I must say.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:27:21
Dear JIVJAGO, again, please!
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:28:32
Dear bn haramjadah, I will certainly do that as soon as I can decipher what you just wrote.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:31:14
Dear arazak, ah, and that is why a true Christian is better than a Muslim as far as character is concerned. Heck, Muslims will even spit and step on cow heads just to insult your religion.
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written by Davy McChester, September 16, 2009 02:32:01
Maybe the MIC leadership is sending a message to hindraf & the rest who left them that they have now at last found their spine,balls and testicles.The MIC crooks & cronies garlanded their tyrant,the chief thief Samy Velu ,who stole their future ,for almost 30 years. Indians,keep away from MIC: let it have a natural one death. They have,wittingly ,or unwittingly ,become the pawn for UMNO zealots to make a ISA sweep against all opposition.We will call it "UMNO Lembu head-MIC Shoe Garland" ISA sweep. Should the ISA sweep be carried out the indication is "a desperate move" and therefore the end is near for BN to implode
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:36:25
Dear Saint, you should have seen how the British treated the German POWs during WWII. An officer is an officer, even from the other side. And an officer is treated like an officer, even from the other side. But then maybe I am expecting too much from Asians who would rather treat each other like animals. I should know. After all I too have been in prison and the prison guards treat prisoners worse than animals.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:38:29
Dear cruzeiro, what's this fixation with datukships? You non-Malays seem to get a hard-on with titles.

By the way, I doubt you would understand things such as values as I know you were not brought up as an officer and a gentleman. Sigh, if they just had more schools like MCKK we would have been able to breed Malaysians with the right values.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:44:00
Dear KotaDamansara73, I agree, and I laugh when I see the non-Malays strutting around like peacocks just because they received titles from the Sultan. You don't happen to be non-Malay by any chance.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 02:47:18
By the way, before any more of you post comments about datukships when I am talking about something totally different maybe you can first get someone to translate my article into your mother-tongue before you post your comments. It's so embarrassing to read your comments that show you did not understand what I wrote. Sigh, I wish they would revert to teaching English in English.
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written by CoolMama54, September 16, 2009 04:34:49
Didnt KotaDamansara73s parents teach it any manners? Oops I forgot, keturunan binatang where got manners... where got hierarchies... where got respect?
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written by mikewang, September 16, 2009 04:54:30
To me, I would respect those who suggested that TDM should be garlanded with slippers, as insolent as the gesture would appear.
The suggestion is to show extreme dissatisfaction to TDM for interfering in the MIC election. It is not a violent nor threatening suggestion.

An Iraqi would probably throw shoes at someone he extremely disliked.
One did and he became the adoration of the whole Arab world.
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written by hamid, September 16, 2009 06:35:09
Dear super Admin why delete my comment? I just said..

I have to disagree with Tengku RPK, We Malaysians too much concern about face value, I can see this from the reporters, its doesn't matter any race, Malay, Chinese, Indian or any race are very worried about to ask questions that offend the interviewer. Why is that so? What is the use if we polite when face the person but go against when he is not around? When this interviewer will learn his lesson? Malaysian should change they're mentality. Only give respect to who deserve it. Malaysia reporters should be more brave, but that doesn't mean disrespect the interviewer and act like a barbarians.

Pls don't delete this! smilies/sad.gif
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written by Dominic Kok, September 16, 2009 09:08:37
LOL Pete, In all your previous articles, I've never seen a more "balance" or should I say imbalanced response from your readership in terms of the agrees vs the disagrees. It is usually the ayes that tips the scale. And I've not seen you responding in such manner.

Your article does strike a sensitive chord in us, our humanity that is void of etiquette, respect and dignity. There has been so much anger pent up for so long against those in authority that we all long for the day to be the one to use our shoe against their head. And when you see the police force with their batons on protesters like there is no tomorrow, it tugs at the heart for retribution against those who treat those people like that. Animals for the slaughter houses have more dignity and even reverence than the unlucky protesters.
I take your challenge to raise my own character and dignity, and model that of Shaaribuu Setev
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written by hellosunshine, September 16, 2009 09:43:54
'You non-Malays seem to get a hard-on with titles,' RPK
Excuse me, which race started using titles like Orang Kaya, Syed, Haji, Khan, Raja and what nots??? Please look at your fingers pointing back when you point a finger at others. smilies/wink.gif
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 09:45:12
Dear Pete,
It is sad that you chose to take my words on the "silly" tin cans with titles - just as all silly titles seriously.

Blinded by "social norms", they despise some for getting their titles thru piracy, while they honour pirates who were granted them thru convention- pathetic officer and pretended gentlemen, if you ask me ....
Yeah - remember how you claimed that knowing how to eat with cutlery gives you class - this is just like that, I suppose.

Hmmm - I guess it is what white-man's Etonesque MCKK does to you ... and despite wanting to change society and how they think, it's difficult to break out of it as more time passes you by ....
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 09:51:51
my my my..... everybody is cheezed off by this article, including YM RPK's reaction to the comments !!!!

it's a 'war' out there dude - where got time for niceties !!! smilies/grin.gif

YM RPK - u gotta lower your expectations of us a tad cos YOU are the exception rather than the rule as far as being a decent honourable forgiving man is concerned.
Most of us are not made from the same cookie-cutter as yours lah - i think mine was a pirated version. smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by temenggong, September 16, 2009 10:10:34
I say, what's all the big fuss over the suggestion of a garland of slippers? It was just a suggestion to rile up Mahathir and Umno and win favour with Samy. Such tirade is part of politics - to show gross displeasure. Uncouth, but I think Mahathir/Umno deserves it! A clear message was sent. A psychological fixation was overcome. The romance between MIC and Umno is over. An era has passed. Great!
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 10:27:32
errrr Temenggong....u mean a mere 'suggestion' is not the same as the deed? smilies/wink.gif

yeahh....i guess it aint the same as throwing the shoe !! that dude was JAILED man!
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written by TwilightYears, September 16, 2009 10:34:02
None of the proposal for the slipper garland would come into being had Samy Vellu not so arrogantly accused BN (and thus Najib as its head) the cause of the fall. Samy's delegates are like dogs wagging their tails and licking his hands. Every word from Samy is the holy word from The GREAT President whose crumps thrown to them worth millions. The delegate who made the proposal would know and he's right, that Samy would be thrilled to have someone supported him. Samy need to create a diversion from his money politics and his arrogance.


Samy is the cause of the hatred to Mahathir. Samy wanted this to happen.
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written by Logger123, September 16, 2009 10:50:00
This is a real gust of fresh air! smilies/cheesy.gif

Finally we can see the civil and uncivil mindsets of Malaysia coming naked to be viewed. Like I've been saying, the education system in this country has created monsters that only understand that power comes from naked aggression.

These folks don't seem to comprehend that supreme power comes from refinement and restraint. The smile that hides the sword. Gandhi, Deng Xiaoping, the British Imperialists, the corporate players, The US Congress & Senate, the British Parliament etc.

To have power, you need to gain the trust of your enemy and your enemy's guard will drop if you ooze charm and deference. The points of contention can be different, but civility needs to be present. Use other forces and people to exert your authority and raw power, but always be civil and respectful of the opponent.

Otherwise you will end up in the rubbish heap of history like Idi Amin, the Bushes, the Hitlers, the Razaks and etc.... smilies/grin.gif
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 10:50:23
temenggong,
This time we're think alike - when Hisham raised his Kris, there was not a peep from Umno. When they insulted their religion and sensitivities of others by the cow-head parade - they got support.
When they disrupt peaceful forums - it's cool.
When they created a ruckus & threatened throw their shoes & rape a lady Adun in public, not a peep either.

But oh - if they were to rightfully suggest slippers for a made who ripped apart the fabric of the nation - they want stern action .... suspension is insufficient!
Everything done by a certain breed of people is cool - for others', it's a crime!!

But no worries - some would still abide by "etiquette", "observe decorum" and kiss their @$$es ... no sirree - a handshake ain't good enough!
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 12:29:45
Dear Dominic Kok, it's just that I wanted the true colours of our readers to emerge. You can see from the responses that many of them agree that the ends justify the means. They also feel that there is no wrong committed if the other side does it first and we just retaliate in kind. Temenggong and Cruzeiro feel that since Umno dragged a cow's head then what they 'suggested' is not wrong. In the posting above Cruzeiro even lists down Umno's crimes, which are considered worse compared to merely garlanding Mahathir's picture with slippers.

You see, all we need is for Umno to AGAIN retaliate and the Indians to AGAIN retaliate and we will duplicate what they did on 11 May 1969. Some of these people like Temenggong, Cruzeiro and the others are just too emotional to understand that we are commenting exactly the way Umno wants us to. Then, soon, a statement will be issued about how kurang ajar the non-Malays have now become and that they should be taught a lesson.

Have you people not been listening to what they have been saying since March last year? The problem is you just like to hear the sound of your own voices and you close your ears to whatever the other side is saying. It is what they are saying which we should monitor and start getting very worried about.

I shudder when Umno keeps saying that what we are seeing today is a repeat of 11 May 1969 so we need a 13 May 1969 solution to the problem. And the very arrogant attitude and pompous statements of MT's readers only help support Umno's argument.

I know many readers feel shiok by letting of steam in the comments section. But MT is not where you should shiok sendiri. Umno is monitoring closely what you write here and are using this. If any of you have gone to a BTN course you will know that.
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written by temenggong, September 16, 2009 12:37:01
tcs, cruz, yup! Like that fellar who tore up KTK's picture looking like a crazed amok! These umno folks have been behavin crude, crass and barbaric even - an uncultured society. Such behavior is almost a norm today.

However malay etiquette requires enemies and adversaries be handshaked while the dagger is kept drawn and out of sight. In Indian and chinese cultures (see CSL and OKT) there is firm no nonsense cold look to the adversary, if at all. No wayang kulit here.
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 12:51:09
Dear temenggong, and that is why we MUST act worse than them. In fact, we should tear TWO photos so that we can look TWICE more crazy than them.
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 13:00:05
Aiyoh Pete,
You don't seem to get it or are just being over sensitive la .... we know what you're saying about the uncouth conduct of the BN goons - it is definitely out of line.

What we're saying is that while decorum should be observed, we don't need to go overboard in our hypocrisy - just to "observe etiquette".
Nobody condones such behaviour la .... it is just to highlight the similarity in the behaviour of the BN goons. In case you missed it - I did mention that the slipper-garland fella "emulated Hisham's uncouth" ways.
What is mentioned (in jest) anyways, is that it isn't too bad an idea for one who has sinned against the nation - that's all.

Do you think Mahathir or the royalties gives a rats @$$ about you kissing his hand? Maybe it is the a culture of the "old school" to observe it la ... but to many, it is simply hypocrisy - no wonder you were put down in front of your enemies.

You cannot glorify a person one moment and then be condescending towards others for not agreeing with your ways.
It is one thing to abide by protocol or simply be polite - it is quite another though, to go overboard through "old school" gestures & feign respect, Pete.
There is honour in being sincere and "genuine" - and even your enemies will respect you for that.
There's no disrespect in seeing another man as an equal.
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 13:06:12
Dear Temenggong

I NEVER advocate that the response to barbaric behaviour is another barbaric behavior!
My believe is that such idiotic behaviour is only confined to some 'selected' few orchestrated by the powers-that-be designed to repeat a may13 as feared by YM RPK.
We must let our heads rule !

Is it not Mahatma Ghandi who said any eye for an eye leaves everyone blind?
Forgiveness is a virtue of the brave. - Indira Ghandi
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 13:09:48
Dear Cruzeiro

Realising what is uncouth behaviour is insufficient - YOU must not go down that level and behave in the exact same way !!! duh !!
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written by Samwise, September 16, 2009 13:11:19
There is only 1 thing to be said about the people who wants to garland, anyone and I mean anyone, with slippers: KURANG AJAR!
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 13:12:26
Dear cruzeiro, oops, you mean it was wrong for me to place MGG Pillai higher than me because of his age and address him as Mister Pillai? Gota make sure I don't make that same mistake again in future. (Have to ask Sam Haris and the others to also stop calling me 'abang').

By the way, MGG Pillai once told me that he is of a Pariah class and that he is very proud of it. But I still address him as Mister Pillai and whenever we went out I would drive to his house to fetch him and drive him home. I was not too proud to act as a chauffeur for a friend older than me.

Yes, I am old school. And that is why you will never in a million years understand what I am talking about. I remember back in school we used to fight by saying 'you step on my father's head so I will step on your father's head'. And we would step on a piece of paper to symbolise the other side's father's head.

Many of you are still doing that today.
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written by Jit Dharma, September 16, 2009 13:30:02
Yes Bro.RPK, we get it,be civil and so on and keep of the grass.
Don't lose your polish b'coz the other is a vermin eating scum sucker.
Is the MIC man an idiot, sure. Do we wish that on anyone,no.
Does Tun deserve it, don't know.Remember, he can hardly be called an
inspiration for good conduct, manners and civility.Truth is, this
country devours the good.
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written by chin, September 16, 2009 13:40:52
Dear RPK,

You are not only old school but quite naive.

Respect for kings and queen came about because we were subject to their kingdom. And a King's kingdom either consisted of places they have conquered or those they protect. And in cases where the king fails to subdue those they conquered or failed to protect those they are supposed to protect, then a new king arises from the populaces who could achieve these task.

The monarch of Malaya has been artificially sustained by first the British and then the BN government to help subdue the populace. So they are to be respected only as either a instrument of the British empire or a UMNO's apparatus of fear, for UMNO punishes those that oppose them in the name of the monarchy.

Now we do not respect the BN government and would wish to have a new one. So where does that place the Malayan monarchs? For they have very evidently sided with UMNO and not the populace.

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written by BurnTan, September 16, 2009 13:43:49
Well, I never said I was not a strange person.


Dear RPK,
Strange you are. Not only that, you are also extraordinary and outstanding!
If you are normal Ali, Ah Kow or Mutu then nobody care to read your blog smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 13:52:27
Dear chin, I'm not sure. Maybe you can answer your own question as to where we should place the various heads of the entire armed forces.

Me naive?....no....just received the correct upbringing and know how to treat the elders. Mind you, I don't demand that the others/youngsters treat me that same way though. People my children's age are free to treat me as an equal; and they do.

I suppose I am too old to change at 59 years old so I will have to go to my grave as old school. When I walk across the room and have to 'cut through' the elders I bow and walk. Still do that till today. And I never walk/cross behind an elder without first asking permission. And when I hand something to an elder I use my right hand, never my left hand. And I never sit down until they do first. And I never fill my plate with food until they do first. Etc., etc., etc.

Hey, that is me, Raja Petra, what can I say?
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 13:56:46
Dear TSC,
Thanks for the enlightenment - glad you understood what I meant.

Pete,
Like I said - there's no disrespect in treating others as equals.
According others respect doesn't mean you're "old school". Calling others Mr. doesn't mean that you're lower than them .... I even call immigrant workers who are my clients that way.

I've tried making myself clear on the crux of the matter - it is obvious that you understand what was said. You don't have to twist my words to prove me wrong, la .... just too bad if you wanna harp on it and have fun, just earn some brownie points - but feel free to whack me anyways.
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written by chin, September 16, 2009 14:00:09
The only role for a monarchy in a democracy is as a protector of the people's rights. And act as an arbitrator of democracy.

And if the monarch starts to side with the present government then they are not longer impartial or act as the protector.

And they then become part of the present government which exist in relation to them.

Now if Malaysia become a truly Islamic nation, no Islamic nation today has a monarchy. And no Islamic monarchy is a democracy. Again there can be no monarchy in an Islamic nation that worships god, for the monarchy can't possibly represent god as royal would never live like the poor. And religion has the effect of freezing development and restricting capitalism. In other words, a religious nation is a nation of the poor or communism by god.

So neither secular or the religious revolutionist have any use for the monarchy.

For the monarchy sides with UMNO and opposes both.

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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 14:04:34
btw Pete,
I never meant to lower myself by calling you "Sir" when we met - it is just the same as Haris calling you "abang", and me calling the Alam Flora worker "Encik" or "Tuan".
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written by Raja Petra, September 16, 2009 14:44:40
Dear cruzeiro, and this is where you and I differ and, therefore, will never be able to agree on some matters. When someone walks up to me to shake my hand I stand up, even if they are so much younger than me. I also bow when I shake their hand. I lower my head/gaze. (I trust you have noticed this). And if they stand there to talk to me then I also remain standing. But if they sit down on an empty chair beside me only then will I sit down again.

I regard this as 'lowering' myself to them. I 'honour' them. And I don't first ask them what political party they are from. And even if they are Umno I still do the same, even for the younger Umno guys. They are 'the enemy' but I still treat them with respect.

I suppose it is useless trying to explain this to you.
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written by chin, September 16, 2009 14:52:59
And to UMNO's constant threat of a May 11 solution to their troubles, I say to the Chinese and the Indians, fear not death, for there are things worse than your own death. For I would rather die before I see my children die.

And another May 11 may not be a good thing for UMNO, for if it gets out of control they will certainly lose control of the country.

The Islamist will certainly take the opportunity to establish themselves for they are the least to fear death. Not only does the Islamist in Southern Thailand claims the land they live in today, they also claim a large part of Malaysian northern territories. And Islamist within the peninsular has a more radical Islamic state in mind.

And the Chinese will certainly seek protection from Singapore or China. With a nice resource rich land for the taking, neither Singapore or China will turn down the chance to "help" their kinds. And with legitimacy of a protector, they can form a protectorate within Malaysia. Why do you think Singapore is racist when it get to the top echelon of its army, loyalty in such a situation would be difficult for some.

And the Indian are the most desperate of the lot, they will have little to lose. The Indians of Malaysia had form an army of their own before, remember the INA.

And of course, Indonesia is an opportunist waiting in the corner. In case the confrontation has slipped in your memory.

Malaysia is overflowing with immigrants from Indonesia and Philippines. And both have claims on territories we consider Malaysia.

A UMNO government fighting its own people will not have the British to help them. (like in the emergency)

It has always puzzled me why UMNO continue to divide the country and weaken the social fabric that binds us together as a nation.

BTW, in case my analysis is annoying, please ignore my amateur efforts. Been reading a lot into history and the SEA history in particular. Signs of my age. While history does not ever justifies the present, it does predicts it.
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 15:06:13
"...I suppose I am too old to change at 59 years old ..."
-----------------------

aiya sudah lah...always slot in age at every chance...
u fishing for sympathy votes or wat?! smilies/grin.gif
first and foremost u aint 90 y.e.
u not growing old but up !!! smilies/grin.gif
and i notice (being the exception that you are) that you are indeed changing.... for the better !!!!
dulu memang bad-temper tapi sekarang sudah cool....
sikit! smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by chin, September 16, 2009 15:09:51
And RPK, I do agree with customs and culture and the respect of your elders.

Where we may disagree is the definition of elders and those we should respect.
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written by teo siew chin, September 16, 2009 15:17:32
oh btw YM RPK, you had the advantage of fine-breeding, so fair is fair ok.
you had mentioned before, one can take a man out of the village but one can not take the village out of the man. smilies/tongue.gif
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written by Saint, September 16, 2009 15:20:49
Dear RPK, A British and a German are from two different countries, taking military orders from their respective heads. The heads take the blame or the victory. The soldiers do not have a choice. As such it is a "very civil behavior" to respect the "enemy"; for the courage and sense of duty he/she has exhibited. But we are all Malaysian, we follow the same laws and must be treated as equals and with justice. I understand your wisdom, but I am not that evolved yet.
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written by Saint, September 16, 2009 15:24:59
And Chin, another May problem, the local Indons and their true Indonesian brothers will have a hell of a time in Malaysia, including Sabah and Sarawak.
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written by Oscar Winner, September 16, 2009 15:40:09
Dear Pete, picture this...

When all those so-called leaders or elders like Isa, Najis, Moohidin, Krismoodin, Toyol, KJ, etc who are actually scumbags go to Bagan Pinang to fish for votes from now till be-election, I just hope the voters from both the political divide are not so "civilised" to come out in droves, lined up under the hot sun, waiting for their turns to kiss the hands. Well, that's etiquette ma...Well, if that happens, the MSM will spin like nobody's business, and headlines will read "The rakyat are definitely behind BN/UMNO" or something like that. And the folks' perception will be in favour of BN. It will be a landslide victory for BN/UMNO, man! No...lawan tetap lawan. If they approach me, I will just walk away la..I'm scared of devils, anyway
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written by Conan Chung, September 16, 2009 16:06:30
This fence-sitter has about enough from the 'debate' on proper treatment to 'crooks and scum'. I'm going to join the fun...

At one corner, we have good old Pete who has the upbringing of aristocrats - he stinks of old values such as chivalry, codes of honor, respect, filial piety and what not. One word describes him: Old-Fashioned (which is understandable since he is from that era.)

Another corner we see the mobs: or commonly referred to as the middle classes which forms the bulk of society. This bulk cares about equality: rights, chance to prosper, education, employment,etc. And to the working class, they are more concerned about food on their plates than anything else. As of now, the well-being of many people have been deteriorating over the years. We can see our real income coming to a halt while our purchasing power decreases. (I personally found that eating McD has become very expensive!)In layman's term, "The government f***ed up the people and now the people wants to f*** it back!".
To the people, they don't care about ranks, etiquette, civility, etc... they want revenge for the billions the government stole from them. To the "people", its personal. And they will kick, curse, stone if that means getting revenge on those in the 'corridors of power'. They want results and are committed to total war against them. Being 'kind' to the enemy does not apply, being 'soft' to the enemy means they will keep coming back to power.

My stand in this petty conflict is of no importance. I care more about my own survival and prosperity than anything in the world. Self-Interest is my middle name. Besides, all the conflict in the world concerns only humanity. Whether N really C4'ed A is of no concern to God or any other living creature in the planet. Whether the NEP has enriched only a small portion of society leaving the rest to suffer also has little meaning. Our "human" conflicts are only affecting the human race and not the entire planet, God or Mother Earth has no concern. (Maybe that's why God has been so silent.)

Alright, its ok for people to disagree. Heck, who says people are born the same. But if we want to keep things peaceful around here, at least understand your neighbors and their point of view. Hatred only breeds more Hatred... so my advise to the mob:

"Do not hate those who have done you harm but stop those who wish to harm you with undying resolution."

Once you understand the above, you would realize how "small" our current problems are.

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written by KotaDamansara73, September 16, 2009 16:07:07
Dora,

The reason your votes are low, because you are being too nice to MIC people. And you go and tell people your race. You should ask all MIC people to go to HELL. No justification is needed.

And don't forget, this is Tanah Melayu. Any non-malays who don't agree with it, are just plain stupid. Until the majority of the Malays start to adopt a progressive mindset, then only then, the non-malays can talk about being recognize as bumiputra.
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 16:33:16
Dear Pete,
I understand what you say quite well - I did notice your humble demeanor when you conduct yourself (and it was surprising to me, actually).
Though admirable, I found it to be a little "too much" (for my comfort at least)- it was always one of the first things I mentioned when describing you to others. Many of the things you do (like "cutting thru", using right hand, bagi salam) I too do practice and demand that my employees do the same to clients.
We grew up in different societies, with different "cultures" - neither of which is (strictly speaking) wrong.


However I do not subscribe to people attempting to touch my feet, or bow before me (which some have done in the past) It may not be the case with you, but it is against my beliefs to do that, or have one do that to be. They now, understand that I prefer them to feel free and regard me as an equal.

Where we differ is the part where "lowering yourself to honor another" - in my upbringing, we have been brought up to believe that while measured humility (not excessive) is warranted, according others equal stature is indeed a sign of respect.

I do not allow people to lower themselves before me - I find it "uncomfortable" (to put it mildly) ... especially if they take the liberty to whack me behind my back. However, if only this practice can make him feel comfortable and free, I wouldn't deny him that privilege. It is his right to do what he believes is right in his culture.

Those values however, cannot be imposed upon others who have a more egalitarian approach to life. As for MIC's slipper-garland, as KD73 says - they can go to hell!
Peace.
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written by cruzeiro, September 16, 2009 16:34:37
"it was always one of the first things I mentioned when describing you to others."

By that, I meant - your humility.
Good Day, Sir.
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written by Jit Dharma, September 16, 2009 16:49:45
The topic is manners and civility, and it is strange that Bro.RPK has taken
such an interest in this aspect of the current situation.He is on the run
from the law and is worried about our apparent lack of civility.I am trying to
understand this and I see that Bro.RPK is quite upset about the way we relate to
each other as Malaysians and as human beings and whether this can have unwanted
repercussions on the nation in the long run.At some point though, no matter how
upright we might be, we may be faced with a brutality that has neither courtesy
nor concern and what will our response be then? I look out, back and forth and
see little evidence that it is light that guides us. We are surrounded by what
Conrad called " an immense darkness ". The human race is pitiful and sad.
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written by sara, September 16, 2009 17:18:56
I am very angry with MIC and especially the person who had uttered the insulting suggestion. Before I go into details, let us see, the shoes/selipar or any footwear, is means to be worn on the foot. Its main function is to protect the wearer from harm. Doesn’t matter, if the person is Malay, Chinese, Indian, Dayak , Iban or etc. Doesn’t matter if the person is Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist,atheist.pagan or etc. Doesn’t matter if the person is rich or poor, good or bad, king or ordinary people. The Selipar will protect the person from harm. The shoe doesn’t know to differentiate between the people. It will not ever discriminate, ”Oh, this person is a Hindu, So, I must give him more protection. And that person is a Pagan, so I can pretend as though I am protecting him.” NEVER will a selipar say that. So, The MIC man doesn’t mean to insult TDM,same as the demonstrators in section 23, doesn’t mean to insult the Hindus. What he was meant to say is “TDM has been like selipar, but this people misconstruct his intention. His intention is good, he just want to give the highest honour to TDM.The culprit is the reporters, who covered the event is not well versed in Tamil. The press should have sent the many NEW MALAY especially from Penang to cover the event.
So, why I was angry with the MIC man. How dare, for him to compare the selipar with TDM. It is an insult to the selipar. If I am in its place or shoes????, I will sue the man for insulting my race and my religion, that is the race of Selipar and the religion of Selipar. But on the second thought, knowing fully well how the courts in Malaysia works, it is better for the selipars to rest its case, same as what The man from Mongolia did recently. And it brings to next question? Who is the culprit behind the down the drain of Malaysia’s courts and its judiciary systems? Any name comes to mind.?
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written by mountainking, September 16, 2009 18:07:18
hi Pete

by the culture and the law of the land, it's respect to be given to those with titles or older folks. but at the same time, there are many more countries who don't practise such formality of titles. well, since we are in malaysia, we have no choice but to embrace the culture/law of the land.

the slippers thingy is another thing altogether and whether there is title or not, it ought not to be done. that is basic respect for each other.

but as to why some of us are not impressed by Tun / Dato Seri / Tan Sri and what not bullshit titles because of so many of these idiots who screwed us up nicely. so, you can't blame us why we chose not to even respect/acknowledge these idiots with such glamourous titles.

protocol is protocol, and when we are making speeches, we will still acknowledge them BUT they are idiots who are not worth for us to respect at all. i think i have the right not to respect them for who they are and what they have done.
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written by chin, September 16, 2009 18:19:29
Slipper garlands aside.

I think it would be rather hypocritical to call someone a crook and then kiss his hand the next you meet him.

And how are we shame criminals if we continue to hold them in such high regards.

It is not a matter of upbringing but principles.
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written by usurper, September 16, 2009 20:18:31
I think you educated fellows should screw your civility and focus on the issue at hand; and that is you are all about to be 'liwated'. Toon Kutty deserves a permanent statue in the 'hall of infamous' with a garland of dirty, worn-out slippers wrapped tightly around his neck. He should feel the pain afetr having been a pain in the neck for 22 years and more. May 13 or not just because you kiss a mans hands does not mean he wont stuff that dagger on your back. It is not about one's civility but about the respect for civility. The murderer Toon Kutty ( I love this name Cruzeiro) deserves every bit of insult just like what RPK said that he would slit the throat of anyone who killed his daughter. Toon Kutty killed so many Indians in Kg. Medan shoud we slit his throat. Maybe, but I think being a little civil and well mannered a garland of rotten slippers would do. Toon Kutty Junior should als be garlanded!
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written by InEffective, September 16, 2009 21:54:19
To RPK,

since my message was unclear, allow me to try and do better.

From my pov (pointofview), your article was about the 'act of garlanding DrM with slipper by an Indian MIC politician asserting to represent indians', and your framing of the above act as a violation of human civility-etiquette behavior (through your lenses of culture and traditions).

Make no mistake, nobody who is decent and upstanding has the need to insult another. This is not something that well-bred people enjoy doing.

I chose to apply a different frame/lens to the very same act - through the 'lens of reciprocal behavior and respect' as well as 'lens of cultural standards and norms'.

If you have benefited from the politicies of the premier, then great - its wonderful, and that's how it should be. But there are hundreds of thousands (millions?) who have been and still are victims of the premiers policies.

This is not about whether the premier contributed to malaysia, but about a relationship between peoples who are/were victims of the premier.

Nobody doubts that he is capable, but that he is cunning and deceptive as well (a deadly combination), and has inflicted the following on minorities as a racist nationalist (as he self-declared) :
- state policy to racially exclude indians from educational opportunities and rights for education
- state policy to suppress oppress legitimate citizenship and documentation rights
- frustrated business opportunities for indians via licensing and permits controls
amongst others via declared and undeclared policies that were effected.

i made the case how asian cultural norms and behavior are inhibitors to standing up for fair-play and justice. how asian traditions of respect of elders,culture, sensitivities etc are internal-conflicts, that can overwhelm and supercede the demands for legitimate rights and justice.

My point was to spread understanding of the tradeoffs of mindless and blind deference to authority, tradition, culture etc, versus the need to stand-up to filth and evil of racism and religious oppression pressure sanctioned by the state.
(and we bear witness to the current conditions of burma, indonesia, malaysia, bosnia, uganda, zimbabwe...)

I am not denying the validity of your views, but i am challenging how you framed the issue.

And i am supporting the MIC delegate behavior (but not his reasoning or understanding of his behavior). This particular MIC delegate has unknowingly stumbled on perfectly appropriate behavior and actions to a racist nationalist, but for the wrong reasoning (interference by premier is irrelevant).

I take this position for the elementally simple reason, that i am accountable in supporting and enabling racisms, if i tacitly support or ignore blatant outright practices of racism.(and personally i think the mic is a bunch of cockroaches)

My view is its meaningless to demand respect from someone who you don't respect.
If you want respect, you better reciprocate. If its not reciprocal, its outright coercion to demand it.

Lets be very clear, different people come to very different conclusions about the same evidence based on their respective needs and biases.

trust i made my point - but we can agree to disagree
(as long as i'm not your victim - otherwise you can bet i'll screw your happiness)
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written by Panca Indera, September 17, 2009 01:54:39
Problem is majority of "Muslims" don't follow :
refer Quran:49.011
: O ye who believe! Let not a folk deride a folk who may be better than they (are), not let women (deride) women who may be better than they are; neither defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. Bad is the name of lewdness after faith. And whoso turneth not in repentance, such are evil-doers. PICKTHAL smilies/cool.gif
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