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RPK to Shariah lawyers: don’t mess with us PDF Print
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Friday, 28 August 2009 00:00

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So, there we have it. RM5,000 fine or imprisonment of 3 years and 6 lashes for consuming alcohol. And RM4,000 fine or imprisonment of 2 years and 6 lashes for forcing one's wife to be a prostitute!

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Shariah lawyers to critics: Don't mess with court decisions

Malaysian Mirror

Do not harass or put pressure on those who are trying to enforce Islamic laws, the Malaysian Syariah Lawyers’ Association (PGSM) advised critics.

In a statement jointly issued with Pembela, an umbrella body of several Muslim NGOs, the association said everyone should adhere to and respect the decisions made by the syariah courts.

Read the news item here: http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/26168/84/

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I don’t know what these Shariah lawyers are so upset about. Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno has agreed to be caned. In fact, she said she wants to be caned because she is ashamed of her actions and regrets what she did.

The police then came to her house to arrest her and took her off to prison. Half an hour later they sent her home.

This upset Katika who then went to the police station to make a police report. She said she wants to cover herself in case she is accused of trying to evade the caning sentence.

Kartika was arrested in Pahang, the home state of Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak. The Pahang state government is under Umno and Barisan Nasional, not under PAS or Pakatan Rakyat.

Najib, however, has asked Kartika to appeal the caning sentence. But Kartika refuses. She wants to be caned.

The 14 days grace period for Kartika to appeal her caning sentence has now expired. This means she can no longer appeal the sentence and, therefore, it should be carried out immediately. But the government does not want to cane her. They said they would only do it after the month of Ramadhan is over.

Why after Ramadhan? Why not now? There is no Islamic law and no verse in the Quran that says no sentence should be carried out during the month of Ramadhan.

Will the government now drop the caning sentence? And will they cite the ‘pressure’ as the excuse for dropping the caning sentence?

I, for one, would like to see the sentence carried out. This will open the floodgates for an eventual full clampdown on liquor.

Islam says you must not drink, sell, serve, keep, profit from, etc., liquor -- including working in any place that sells liquor, own shares in the company, hold directorships, and much more. It is not only forbidden to drink the stuff. It is also forbidden to associate with the stuff in any way whatsoever.

Once Kartika has been caned then the government can go after the workers, owners, shareholders, directors, government officers who approved the licences, etc. Tens of thousands of people will be hauled in and caned.

Genting, which is also in Pahang, Najib’s home state, would have to sack all their Muslim workers. So would Club Med and all those other hotels in Pahang. They would have to sack all their Muslim workers or else the managers and owners of these establishments would get arrested and caned.

Oh, and my favourite, MAS. MAS will have to discontinue serving beer and liquor onboard its flights or else it would have to sack all the Muslim staff and employ non-Muslims. The Muslim workers in the KLIA tax-free shops would also have to be replaced with non-Muslims. KLIA itself would have to sack all its Muslim workers or else the tax-free shops in KLIA would have to stop selling liquor, cigarettes, tobacco and whatnot.

I am all for it. Let’s see where we go from here. And please, Shariah lawyers, don’t mess with us.

Anyway, before I sign off, read what a Muslim lawyer wrote in his Blog:

If that is not shocking enough, consider section 177 of the Enakmen Pentadbiran Ugama Islam dan Adat Resam Melayu Pahang 1982 (the enactment under which Kartika is sentenced). Under this section, a person who forces or allows his wife to prostitute herself with the intention of earning an income from such prostitution is liable to be fined RM4,000 or imprisonment for 2 years or both and caning of not more than 6 lashes.

So, there we have it. RM5,000 fine or imprisonment of 3 years and 6 lashes for consuming alcohol. And RM4,000 fine or imprisonment of 2 years and 6 lashes for forcing one's wife to be a prostitute! Is there any wonder why Islam is viewed with ridicule and contempt?

http://art-harun.blogspot.com/2009/08/legality-of-caning-kartika.html

Comments (93)Add Comment
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written by allangan2006, August 28, 2009 00:07:28
Hishamuddin, son of Najib, and son of Nazri should also be caned because they too consumed alchohol if there were grounds what were published in websites/blogs sometime ago.
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written by DontPlayGod, August 28, 2009 00:25:54
If the Sultan of Brunei were invited to attend a dinner held in Malaysia, then he should be arrested and caned too, as he brings his own bottle of wine when he dines in Malaysia. Don't tell me he is above God's laws. Please syariah lawyers and shariah courts, nobody is above God's laws. Do it next time this Sultan comes. Don't go for small ikan bilis.
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written by freedom to speak, August 28, 2009 00:31:38
Laughing my a** off! Look who is talking!
Malaysian Syariah Lawyers’ Association (PGSM)'s warning is full of crap(sh*t).
They are swimming in so much sh*t that the smell is all over the country and moving around the world!
Malaysia get ready to be "taliban-ised" and then cannibalised by the entire world.
Another Afganistan in the making!
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written by raven1958, August 28, 2009 00:32:28
Thanks to the imams and of course the syariah fraternity...it appears that alot of Malays are going to be out of jobs...

PR...please get ready to form the Federal Government...your time may come up sooner then expected...just make certain fellas like Hassan Ali are crucified first...
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written by Davy McChester, August 28, 2009 00:32:44
A can of worms is about be released............ If we go into minute details then virtually anything and everything coming out from the infidel land ,infidel factory,infidel medicine:imports from infidel countries are all tainted with the sweat and breath of the infidel. Aircraft,guns,ships,off shore platforms,hospital equipment including life support apparatus that keep many of the "pure" & holy people alive. Mind boggling to list all! There must be one standard to apply the holy laws,that is ,apply it throughout without favour or fear to achieve purity. The age of darkness & ignorance maybe around the corner. No religion is an Island.Keep religion private and let God make the decision
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written by DontPlayGod, August 28, 2009 00:33:14
After banning Muslims from drinking and punishment, what next? There are so many haram things committed, let's hope that the syariah cops will arrest all Muslims who visit 4D shops, pubs, nightclubs, gambling dens, visit prostitutes, are involved in corruption(nearly every cop, custom officers, etc. and even judges are not exempt from this corruption).

I have always written that Malaysia will become a full-fledged islamic state a la Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabis, Iran, Sudan, etc. in 15 to 20 years time. But it looks like it is even going to happen very much sooner. Time to high-tail it out of here, fellars.
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written by storm62, August 28, 2009 00:36:12
MAS will later have to hire all the china dolls as their stewardess...ha ha ha.

Genting will hire Filipinos, 7 eleven will hire Thais, Hotels will hire Chinese, indians and Mat sallehs....ha ha ha.

So who will hire our muslims friends in the service and entertainment industries?
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written by Braino, August 28, 2009 00:36:54
How to mess something which is already in itself a big mess?...what a joke!
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written by scorpion, August 28, 2009 00:37:15
Conclusion, Syariah officer also same like MACC, practicing selective prosecution. Luckily Syariah building don't have 14 floor otherwise they will also throw people out from the window.
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written by johnT, August 28, 2009 00:38:03
Macam ketam menghukum ketam lain berjalan lurus
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written by Daryl, August 28, 2009 00:38:26
Like I say before we need expert in Islam to decide all these not just UMNO dogs running their mouth to protect the Federal Government oops I meant to say UMNO.

Federal Government IS NOT EQUAL BN
Federal Government EQUAL political party or coalition that won the majority of seats

State Government IS NOT EQUAL BN
State Government EQUAL political party or coalition that won the majority of seats

TAX Money belong to Federal Government to help run the country NOT political party

ISLAM/CHRISTIANITY/BUDDISM/HINDUISM/OTHERS are not assigned to individuals or race but a choice make by human being

My two cents and still frustrated about the mind set of our country's irresponsible leaders. They are the one that need to be caned not 5 or 6 times but a stroke for every ringgit they put in their or cronies pocket...
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written by InEffective, August 28, 2009 00:39:46
Too many inconsistencies, conflicts, arbitrary interpretations and implementations that hurt the religion. Too many 'authorities' asserting that they are authorities.

Who is the real legitimate authority for religion ?
(i think they have been derelict in their duties and obligations)
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written by Spear Bing, August 28, 2009 00:42:55
Shariah lawyers even made a press conference telling the non-muslim NGOs and community not to mess with them! They are custodians of God's law. So back off!

Phew! they are forever wanting to bury their heads in the sand!.

So much Quranic verses and syariah injunctions in their brains yet they lack the capacity to gain wider perspectives as a human being living in a 'flat world'.

They mess around with the 'Absolute' in the Relative, their 'kepala kena pusing!'
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written by Heaven8402, August 28, 2009 00:45:31
Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno is a brave and a very smart lady. Two thumbs up for her!
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written by darrelwan, August 28, 2009 01:01:37
There you have it ; A tough lady who is a Muslim and not afraid of the law. In fact, she knows she is wrong and accepts the sentence with an open heart. Let me see the key words here. (1)MUSLIM (2) LAW and don't forget (3) LADY. These UMNO fools has been doin all kinds of non-syariah, law breaking activities but do they confess to it? Do they say 'Yes, I'm wrong' when they are found guilty? Do they even care that they are wrong? Kartini is nothing BUT a tough lady. I'm quite ashamed of the so-called law which says 'So, there we have it. RM5,000 fine or imprisonment of 3 years and 6 lashes for consuming alcohol. And RM4,000 fine or imprisonment of 2 years and 6 lashes for forcing one's wife to be a prostitute'. No wonder these people can have 5 wifes and 20 children! Woman, fight for your rights!
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written by songsar, August 28, 2009 01:16:07
Islam was introduced into China 1350 years ago and there are 20 to 100 million muslims (according to BBC/Wikepedia) The muslims in China drink like a fish and its not only beer(4% alcohol) but liqour 56% proof made from sorghum.Who is going to cane them? Anyone from the shariah courts going to strike the first stroke? How come nobody is being caned in China yet? According to RPK, at least the Chinese muslims understands the meaning of the Koran when they are praying
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written by Spear Bing, August 28, 2009 01:18:43

By the way do this Shariah Laws of Malaysia equally apply to those Muslim tourists
from USA, UK., China, Middle East, Europe, Australia, Indonesia, Thailand, who happen to visit Malaysia and then involve themselves in alcoholic drinks?

If they do apply, then notices must be put up at the ports of entry, just like DRUG trafficking.

Surely Malaysian Shariah lawyers would not want our Muslim tourists to be caned and jailed and fined for such offences.
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written by temanmu, August 28, 2009 01:24:28
Good one RPK!

Now we can test if MONEY is the God of Gods for UMNO.
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written by Steven Tan, August 28, 2009 01:26:49
I don't know what probably will be our YM RPK's opinion but After I've gone through this article, something strike into my mind.

a)"Islam says you must not drink, sell, serve, keep, profit from, etc., liquor including working in any place that sells liquor, own shares in the company, hold directorships, and much more. It is not only forbidden to drink the stuff. It is also forbidden to associate with the stuff in any way whatsoever".

b) "Once Kartika has been caned then the government can go after the workers, owners, shareholders, directors, government officers who approved the licences, etc. Tens of thousands of people will be hauled in and caned".

Guys, now tell me.don't you think Kartika having her ground to sue the Malaysia Govenment? So to achieve that, it will be a perfect decision for Kartika to accept the punishment because that will be the strongest recorded evident for her. If she appeals, then her case is no longer strong and it will sweep under the carpet and soon or later people will forget about it BUT now after she gone through the canning, the entire world will become her witness and that news will be printed and published on the front page in every newpaper in the world. So she's in the upper hand IF she wants to sue the Malaysia Government for all the reason I've mentioned above...

now, don't you think Kartika is smart? Of course she can choose not to sue the government but in my opinion she has the choices whether to sue or not.

Anyway I'm not a lawyer so I can be wrong in this theory. By the way, please don't get me wrong and my Muslim Brothers and Sisters, please don't feel offended... Selamat Berpuasa smilies/smiley.gif
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written by banzai, August 28, 2009 01:36:01
They said they would only do it after the month of Ramadan is over.
Are they going to cane Kartika during 1st day of Hari Raya???
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written by Steven Tan, August 28, 2009 01:36:27
If I'm in Kartika's position I won't get a local lawyer...I will take the touble and spend some extra money (actually it's an investment smilies/tongue.gif) to fly to Saudi Arabia and purposely get a LAWYER FROM MECCA.

The reason to get the MECCA LAWYER is because he/she knows very well about the actual Muslim Law as written in the Quran so that the lawyer will fight the case exactly as written in the Quran and by taking all the loopholes as his points and of course won't take side...

Guys, I think you know where I'm coming from smilies/wink.gif
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written by johanssm, August 28, 2009 01:43:43
i guess next in line to be ban will be condoms!
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written by arazak, August 28, 2009 01:46:35
The Jabatan Agama Islam should go raid the office of the Muslim Directors of the liquor manufacturer. They are also equally guilty and should be canned!

Why didn't the Jabatn Agama Islam Pahang raid Bukit Tinngi, there are many intoxicated Muslims there? Afraid of bad publicity for UMNO's crony, Vincent Tan's business?

What about the intoxicated Muslim UMNO Minister who "raba bontot" a woman not his wife? Why don't they flogged him too?

Hypocrite Religious Department who picks and choose the offender!
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written by anon, August 28, 2009 01:57:21
Pete,

My brother arrived from the U.S. two days ago and we got together and he said people in the U.S. are laughing at this case - and the other cases as well.

Actually, they are having a great time reading about this country and laughing. My bro reads MT too. But they get these news on their channels. Some cannot believe what this country is coming to - or should I say, going to.
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written by anon, August 28, 2009 01:58:35
re.ad.s is filtered? geez
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written by AlwaysFair, August 28, 2009 02:24:24
Yes, I agree with Steven Tan.

Also Dear RPK, if the bumi shareholders and directors are earning by investing in "SIN" related companies eg. BJtoto, Genting, BAT (British America Tobacco),Tanjong, Carlsberg, etc, etc they should be arrested and fined/imprisoned and whipped and made to divest of their shareholdings which are considered "haram."

So in actual fact, if you examine closely, the whole govt. machinery including the Islamic enforcement bodies are just superficial guardians of the religion only, and catch the small fishes to show they champion Islam while all the time when big $$$$ are involved they just "FAIL" to see it as "HARAM," because the big sharks are not spared maybe they are above all the laws.

This shows the HYPOCRISY in the whole system and such babaric punishments should be repealed and softer sentences such as community services etc should be meted out.

Anyway if the leaders and financiers of the country don't even provide a good Islamic example how do you expect the rest to follow? I think Allah must be so ashamed of your double standards. If not then He must be corrupted too which He can never be. Have you got no more decency and shame left?
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written by AlwaysFair, August 28, 2009 02:26:27
sory correction....

.. because the big sharks are spared maybe they are above all the laws.
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written by Wudan, August 28, 2009 02:36:10
Why is it that we just don't read the Quran, Bible, Torah or other sacred texts and understand and see compassion and love within those scriptures?

Why must we insist on the literal meaning instead of the spirit underlying those beautiful words and phrases?

Why must we emphasize so much on form instead of substance?

I am the least qualified to comment on religious matters but all these events and unintended consequences have far reaching implications that most of us may realize.
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written by Steven Tan, August 28, 2009 02:43:17
Dear AlwaysFair,

There is another simple example to make this situation crystal clear. It's like this...All of us know that the authorities (JPJ and Traffic Police) will fine those vehicle with the tinted dark glass BUT the won't do anything to the Accesories Shop that selling and installing various kind of tinted film.

Everybody know that 100% Accesories Shop having stock of hundred and one type of tinted film but WHY the authorities don't take any serious action. Don't you think it's 100 percent more effective if they start their enforment right from the accesories shop rather then fining the ordinary car owner? Further more the accesories shop still can provide the certificate that their product having JPJ approval...

So, this is the situation in the Kartika case. The authority will colse one eye (most of the time close two eyes smilies/tongue.gif) towards the high level but the ordinary people will become their easy target because we're weak
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written by taishan, August 28, 2009 03:34:46
She harms no one through a little drinking.
However with corruption; state wealth plundering it harms everyone.
I say, lets cane all the UMNO members and Najis in particular.
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written by Jbao, August 28, 2009 05:29:08
Dear Pete
I am a muslim General Manager of a major international company. Whenever I meet my bosses and counterparts of the HQ (Danmark) I have to drink (beer brewed by my company) and dine with them inside Malaysia as well as abroad. This happens at about twice a month. After reading KArtika's conviction I am at a dilemma. I love my job and my beer (acquired taste after joining the company 20 years ago). At the same time I feel that I am not MAN and Muslim enough to openly admit my sin and accept the punishment as KARTIKA. Further afte the canning in public can I still continue with my job. Frankly I need the money to feed my big family but as you said, we are all living in SIN since the money I earn to feed them is HARAM. Alternatively I can renounce ISLAM and become a Christain but again I would be running foul of Malaysian laws. Either way I am a dead duck. Please help as I am loosing sleep over the matter. Why must this "stupid woman" accept her punishment like a MAN and now make us (MEN) all look like PONDANS and exposed as SINFUL. If you cannot help me I think there is no way out but to be man enough to commit suicide. Thanks in anticipation of your help and guidance.
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written by roggon, August 28, 2009 07:14:33
Najis rosak had to interfere not because this happened in pahang. NR new well that if kartika is caned, it is akin to having his shrinking tescticles nailed to the wall of putrajaya with rusty nails!!!Owww!!
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written by Krepot, August 28, 2009 07:16:57
Dear Jbao,

Danish beer is one of the best! I don't blame you for your affliction to it. Religion and haram aside, keep the job, keep the spirits up and stay alive for heavens sake. Your family is looking up to you. Get spanked, if need be, after all, its for some real classy Danish Beer!
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written by roggon, August 28, 2009 07:19:58
Dear Jbao,
How do you know there is god or Allah for that matter? If you cant answer this question, go ahead with your drinking business. If you do, thats between you and your allah. These ulamaks in malaysia at are only worried if others dont go to heaven. But they dont realise that their stinking balls are already fried in hell even before their demise. Next round is on me!!! Naa ..I take Royal salute!!
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written by Taikohtai, August 28, 2009 08:34:39
I understand that in view of the uncertainty factor of what constitutes haram or halal in Islam, one way to cleanse the deed is by way of ZAKAT. Also, MB Khalid toyed with the idea of introducing ZAKAT in lieu of the conventional tax in Selangor. I really hope PR will be able to handle such issues more seriously and urgently before BN makes a complete mess of the Syariah laws.
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written by OVERLORD, August 28, 2009 08:35:51
Yes, lets see the authority haul up the arses of all Muslim directors who has a stake in the purported "sin industries".......Strip them of their titles and have a public caning display shown live on TV...That would boost TV ratings and should "curb infidels activities" and return them to the path of righteousness...
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written by eeyaw, August 28, 2009 08:41:07
What they are saying is during Ramadhan behave like an Angel and after that anything goes. These quack holy men are one of their kind, only in Malaysia.
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written by jaz, August 28, 2009 08:47:47
Be careful of handling this matter. You cane her, you would answer to the consequences (sacking of the Muslim workers) Do you want to let give up the entire forest because of 1 tree? You're the one who would decide.
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written by bikerzon, August 28, 2009 09:08:13
Alamak RPK,

Why are u still so naive? How can BN/UMNO Najib close or sack all those Malay in the alcohol related industries? BN has double standard law.
They rather put you under ISA rather than close all those businesses.
Even if in UNMO general assembly, they serve alcohol there, the will "halalkan" the alcohol. Different law for UMNOputra.

Then BN will then shout that it's the pendatang fault bringing all those alcohol in Malaysia, and con all those Malays in working in the industries.

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written by Counterpointer, August 28, 2009 09:15:37
Talking about alcohol.

Anyone realized that those hand sanitizers that are being so popular nowadays due to the AH1N1 thing contained denatured alcohol?

Now according to a websearch here http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/f...on=FatwaId
using that would be a strict no-no for muslims.

So, is the Syariah court going to impose a fine of RM4,500.00 or imprisonment of 2.5 years and 6 lashes for muslims caught using hand sanitizers?
smilies/wink.gif
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written by C360, August 28, 2009 09:21:55
There is an age old saying ..

When you are in so much shit, you might as well swim in it.
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written by panca, August 28, 2009 09:43:00
The girl had accepted the punishment, she is in record, definitely the bravest victim of one being apprehended for drinking to this 'crime' meted for by those well-learned politicians, she is not just being ready but wants punishment pronounced to be carried in public and immediately. She is ready and now have to wait for the government who is fast and furious in delivering the verdict but now is clueless in meting the whipping. She said, go on the god among the politicians and she is not appealing! On one hand, it is a daunting task for the government is BE SUED when she is NOT meted out the punishment if she chose to be handed the religious punishment she accepted to clear her emotional stress but not given. On the other hand the government will face MAMMOTH legal suits from this brave girl when is meted with the 'crime' she has committed while many others go scot-free?!

See how "great and sincere" these politicians are when it comes to snooping on people's wrong doings and not those of their own kind!

Well done PolitiFARTS, half-done or RAW!?
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written by malgal, August 28, 2009 09:47:51
Syariah lawyers vs Government then - an open invitation to the government to battle who's right. As for Kartika, she is obedient unto the law.

So there.
And one more - deferring her sentence just for ramadan does not reduce/redeem the sentence in any way. if anything, it's prolonging poor kartika's agony of waiting. and it's wicked to do that, imagine her mental anguish.

And there you have it.
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written by hellosunshine, August 28, 2009 09:58:34
Excuse me, Syariah lawyers. The Holy Quran mentioned anything about ganja, cannabis, opium, LSD, cough mixtures, paint/glue sniffing, designer drugs ah? If not, then it's halal to partake in these but strictly no alcohol, right? See how ridiculous this sounds? We need to move with the times, dungu.
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written by non conformist, August 28, 2009 10:02:53
Moral policing by self-righteous religious police is a billion dollar business,
It is a very lucrative money spinning business - another way to rob and harass the people.

Religion has been turned into a means of gain!
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written by mountainking, August 28, 2009 10:12:41
syariah lawyers are no different from those syariah bankers.

these are the losers could not compete (not all, but many, some are really for what they believe) in the normal practice, thus coming out with alternative track of laws to cari makan. if not, how to create so many employment opportunities for syariah judges, syariah officers, syariah bankers, syariah central bankers, syariah ministers and later on syariah police.
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written by cantab, August 28, 2009 10:15:04
I must share this. I read a confession by a friend who said he halted his illegal sex when he heard the azan on air, but then continued the illegal act no sooner than the azan had stopped. It sounds ridiculous to me. If one feels that such act is illegal and is not condoned by the religion, then by all means, s/he should avoid/refrain it, and not avoiding only during the azan.
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written by sydput, August 28, 2009 11:08:51
Jbao said -
Either way I am a dead duck. Please help as I am loosing sleep over the matter. Why must this "stupid woman" accept her punishment like a MAN and now make us (MEN) all look like PONDANS and exposed as SINFUL. If you cannot help me I think there is no way out but to be man enough to commit suicide. Thanks in anticipation of your help and guidance.

Stand your ground. Don't be like anwar ibrahim and MB Khalid who are scared to confront the muslim extremist. Don't be like GAB, who has decided to ban muslims from attending black eyed peas concert.

I for one, a malay, will boycott guinness stout, kilkenny's and tiger beer. I will drink carlsberg from now on. And by the way, can you guys market Chang beer. It taste good and I think will kill tiger's domination here.

I wonder how hassan ali would feel if we close down all the mosque and sack all the imams and mufti's. They contribute zero economicaly and does not benefit mankind in any way.
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written by RumahPanjai, August 28, 2009 11:22:21
Just a bunch of primitive lawyers practising ancient arab lawlessness in a shit can.
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written by onkassim, August 28, 2009 11:38:00
This issue re: canning of a Muslim woman has been overblown inviting all sorts of comments both positive and negative. With such diverse opinions how can Najib hope to instil his 1Malaysia concept and Govt's concern for the Rakyats wellbeing. The only solution out of this dilemma is:
1. Change the law if the sentence cannot be properly implemented.
2. Judges should not meet out sentence if it is incapable of being properly implemented.
3. The Sultan (as syariah matters comes under HRH's purview) could be advised to pardon or commute the sentence based on:
a. the woman had admitted to the offence and is a first time offender
b. she had paid a fine for the folly
c. an act of mercy and compassion esp. during this holy month of Ramadhan
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written by johnT, August 28, 2009 11:43:38
I want to add something....All the tax and income tax from liquor should not go to the goverment cause it is haram too. If it been accidently use to build Masjid than it will become a big sin. These money should go to the non muslim fund to help the poor non muslim and build Indian and Chinese primary school.

Or worst to worst let MCA or Gerakan handle this liquor tax money.
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written by ohuat, August 28, 2009 11:54:36
smilies/smiley.gif yes sack all muslim employees in the entertainment industry and replace them with non-muslim. Don't worry la, this BN government will give you all jobs in MARA, UITM, TELEKOM, TNB, PETRONAS, PPK, PDT, PDRM, MACC......................................................
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written by Muryadi, August 28, 2009 12:04:00
I can't write in English, so I just cut&paste from Internet..

Is Shariah the Rule of Law?

One reason for the divergence between Western(non-muslim) and Muslim views of Shariah is that we are not all using the word to mean the same thing. Although it is commonplace to use the word “Shariah” and the phrase “Islamic law” interchangeably, this prosaic English translation does not capture the full set of associations that the term “Shariah” conjures for the believer. Shariah, properly understood, is not just a set of legal rules. To believing Muslims, it is something deeper and higher, infused with moral and metaphysical purpose. At its core, Shariah represents the idea that all human beings — and all human governments — are subject to justice under the law.

In fact, “Shariah” is not the word traditionally used in Arabic to refer to the processes of Islamic legal reasoning or the rulings produced through it: that word is fiqh, meaning something like Islamic jurisprudence. The word “Shariah” connotes a connection to the divine, a set of unchanging beliefs and principles that order life in accordance with God’s will. Westerners typically imagine that Shariah advocates simply want to use the Koran as their legal code. But the reality is much more complicated. Islamist politicians tend to be very vague about exactly what it would mean for Shariah to be the source for the law of the land — and with good reason, because just adopting such a principle would not determine how the legal system would actually operate.

Shariah is best understood as a kind of higher law, albeit one that includes some specific, worldly commands. All Muslims would agree, for example, that it prohibits lending money at interest — though not investments in which risks and returns are shared; and the ban on Muslims drinking alcohol is an example of an unequivocal ritual prohibition, even for liberal interpreters of the faith. Shariah also prohibits bribery or special favors in court. It demands equal treatment for rich and poor. It condemns the vigilante-style honor killings that still occur in some Middle Eastern countries. And it protects everyone’s property — including women’s — from being taken from them. For many Muslims today, living in corrupt autocracies, the call for Shariah is not a call for sexism, obscurantism or savage punishment but for an Islamic version of what the West considers its most prized principle of political justice: the rule of law.

sourcehttp://islamnewsroom.com/news-...ewish.html
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written by Muryadi, August 28, 2009 12:06:29
contd..>

Rights of Humans and Rights of God

So in contemporary Islamic politics, the call for Shariah does not only or primarily mean mandating the veiling of women or the use of corporal punishment — it has an essential constitutional dimension as well. But what is the particular appeal of placing Shariah above ordinary law?

The answer lies in a little-remarked feature of traditional Islamic government: that a state under Shariah was, for more than a thousand years, subject to a version of the rule of law. Islamic government was legitimate, in the dual sense that it generally respected the individual legal rights of its subjects and was seen by them as doing so. These individual legal rights, known as “the rights of humans” (in contrast to “the rights of God” to such things as ritual obedience), included basic entitlements (right) to life, property and legal process — the protections from arbitrary government oppression sought by people all over the world for centuries.

Of course, merely declaring the ruler subject to the law was not enough on its own; the ruler actually had to follow the law. For that, he needed incentives. And as it happened, the system of government gave him a big one, in the form of a balance of power with the scholars. The ruler might be able to use pressure once in a while to get the results he wanted in particular cases. But because the scholars were in charge of the law, and he was not, the ruler could pervert the course of justice only at the high cost of being seen to violate God’s law — thereby undermining the very basis of his rule.

The scholars were agents of stability and predictability — crucial in societies where the transition from one ruler to the next could be disorderly and even violent. And by controlling the law, the scholars could limit the ability of the executive to expropriate the property of private citizens. This, in turn, induced the executive to rely on lawful taxation to raise revenues, which itself forced the rulers to be responsive to their subjects’ concerns. The scholars and their law were thus absolutely essential to the tremendous success that Islamic society enjoyed from its inception into the 19th century. Without Shariah, there would have been no Haroun al-Rashid in Baghdad, no golden age of Muslim Spain, no reign of Suleiman the Magnificent in Istanbul.

For generations, Western students of the traditional Islamic constitution have assumed that the scholars could offer no meaningful check on the ruler. As one historian has recently put it, although Shariah functioned as a constitution, “the constitution was not enforceable,” because neither scholars nor subjects could “compel their ruler to observe the law in the exercise of government.” But almost no constitution anywhere in the world enables judges or nongovernmental actors to “compel” the obedience of an executive who controls the means of force. The Supreme Court of the United States has no army behind it. Institutions that lack the power of the sword must use more subtle means to constrain executives. Like the American constitutional balance of powers, the traditional Islamic balance was maintained by words and ideas, and not just by forcible compulsion.

So today’s Muslims are not being completely fanciful when they act and speak as though Shariah can structure a constitutional state subject to the rule of law. One big reason that Islamist political parties do so well running on a Shariah platform is that their constituents recognize that Shariah once augured a balanced state in which legal rights were respected.

Can Shariah provide the necessary resources for such a rethinking of the judicial role? In its essence, Shariah aspires to be a law that applies equally to every human, great or small, ruler or ruled. No one is above it, and everyone at all times is bound by it. But the history of Shariah also shows that the ideals of the rule of law cannot be implemented in a vacuum. For that, a state needs actually effective institutions, which must be reinforced by regular practice and by the recognition of actors within the system that they have more to gain by remaining faithful to its dictates than by deviating from them.


* Noah Feldman is a law professor at Harvard University and an adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. This essay is adapted from his book “The Fall and Rise of the Islamic State,” which will be published later this month.
Excerpts from the original article
Source: http://www.alarabiya.net/views...47216.html
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written by miwaki, August 28, 2009 12:09:58
Malaysian government has to depend on "haram activities" to survive,what a joke !Now I know why prostitute dens,SPAs,Urut tradisional dan segala bisnes haram tetap digalakkan oleh kerajaan yang tak guna ini.

Jahanam Malaysia dibawah UMNO/BN
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written by Jan, August 28, 2009 12:37:09
Carlsberg Malaysia saw the day coming when their facility in Shah Alam was attacked by some fanatics a few years ago. Now they have this issue with beer not being allowed to be sold in some areas. Business is getting tough with yearly increases with tax now this issue with Islam.
Thankfully they have bought over Carlsberg Singapore perhaps with a view to shift their processing plant over there. There goes hundreds of valuable jobs.
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written by songsar, August 28, 2009 13:13:56
Jbao,
Why feel so dejected, there ares always loopholes. You can take it that your drink of Carlsberg is for your health which is considered as medicine which is allowed. Take a look at those Muslims in Xinjiang, China, they drink like a fish, the liquor consumption goes up from November to March because of the cold.
In Muslim restaurants in China, liquor/alcohol is being sold like halal mutton.
Would the Shariah Dept start looking for an opportunity to go to China and learn from them to see what is allowed and not allowed.
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written by Umar Rentaka, August 28, 2009 13:20:46
Dearest RPK,
the Government, nay, the Muslim enforcement unit is deep shit. If they cane her, the whole world will condemn them.

If they don't cane her, then many of the Muslimats or Muslim ladies will be inspired to drink beer in public!!
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written by Steven Ong, August 28, 2009 13:24:51
1)After all the crabs, hoo-haa and what not, have we ask, ' Why the syariah laws would ban a drink made by God'?
2)Is it consuming alcohol more severe than prostitution?
3)Is syariah laws above civil laws? Is that why the syariah lawyers angry about?

Ban all alcohol drinks and Malaysia would be free? What about cigarettes? And gambling casinos, 4D, lucky draws.......
Dont blame the things .It is man himself who chose to sin. If all these are ban in Malaysia, the Muslim would go outside to have fun.
It is the hearts of men that needs to be cleanse. And this all religions have fail. Need truth that will set all men free. Ask, knock and seek. Maybe one day you may find it.
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written by Vertigo Cure, August 28, 2009 13:32:12
Who wants to bet after the caning, Kartika will sue the authorities? smilies/grin.gif
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written by safetyknob, August 28, 2009 13:47:26
ChickenRic, Guess you are either being completely ignorant or have been sleeping 24 hours a day for years! Once you've attended Tiny Dot Country Sdn Bhd's private functions & been inside some of the palaces you'll know that you are completely & 100% wrong !!! By the way ... PERGI MAIN JAUH JAUH!!!

PS: I've got almost 20 hitches in Tiny Dot Country Sdn Bhd on my belt under BSP.
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written by Super Admin, August 28, 2009 14:09:10
Muryadi, tak perlu cakap banyak. Just ban all haram activities immediately and stop earning tax revenue from them. Sebab apa kerajaan Melayu Umno tak berani buat? Sebab apa Najib suruh hukuman sebat ditangguh? Go talk to Umno, not to us.

By the way, when was the Shariah invented and who invented it? Do you know since you cut and paste that item above?
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written by Fairminded, August 28, 2009 14:12:47
All these verbose debate about whether the shariah laws' right or wrong is confusing to my simple mind. Can someone out there clarify some facts for me?

1. Who the heck is this fellow GOD and where does he live? Everyone seemed to be claiming to represent him, and everyone is quoting or misquoting him. Is it time that he show up to clarify what had been claimed to be his words by so many parties. I would if I were him. It is getting to be embarrassing.

2. If God does not want us to drink, touch, make and trade alcohol then why the heck he created it?

4. Are all these shariah lawyers graduated from a university in heaven? They seemed to know how to get there.

5. Can I get a job in Carlsberg, MAS. Genting Highlands etc if I can help some of my brother muslims to go to heaven by taking their place in these sinful places?
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written by dkkl, August 28, 2009 14:24:59
well, Najib ask karthika to appeal... why? I think najib wanna give a taste her like he taste Altantuya. If she give in, Najib has the power to ask syariah court to pardon her.... So as you can see, every movement by Najib that using court or law nhas motive 'Ada Udang Di Sebalik Batu'.

karthika, just be careful with this najib.. you may not want to end up like altantuya in the end.
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written by Century Patriot, August 28, 2009 15:36:01
The way things are evolving NOT only here but throughout the world, I firmly concur with what a philosopher once said ‘ The greatest MISTAKE of mankind is to leave the question of EVIL and WISDOM to theologians and scientists’. I would like to add a twist to it that is ‘ include blinkered judges and lawyers’!
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written by Fuminari, August 28, 2009 15:50:03
shariah court,what shariah court??
kartika is a muslim,she took beer n subject to whipping;what about that jamaluddin jarjis,that deputy minister who drank whisky n start pinching women buttock,is he not muslim???what kind of shariah court??
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written by alarcarte, August 28, 2009 15:56:21
The punishment for drinking beer is more severe than prostituting one's wife?
Those who write these laws are certainly ignorant, of course we are not trying to mess with their laws but just laughing behind their back Ha,ha,ha,ha...

Let me tell them this, after drinking a glass of beer I still can drive my car competently and still can swing a golf ball for more then 150 meters, may be I should challenge those shariah lawyers for a round of golf by giving me a handicap of drinking a couple of beers before the game. Cheers...


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written by 98PercentPrimate, August 28, 2009 16:04:08
written by Fairminded, August 28, 2009 14:12:47
1. Who the heck is this fellow GOD and where does he live? Everyone seemed to be claiming to represent him, and everyone is quoting or misquoting him. Is it time that he show up to clarify what had been claimed to be his words by so many parties. I would if I were him. It is getting to be embarrassing.


The above is a very fair-minded and reasonable statement.

If god cannot be proven to exist, then the whole house of theistic religious structure loses its credibility and integrity. There is no convincing proofs that god exists and that is why religion is always reference with faith, i.e. beliefs without proof or reason!

If there is no integrity to god's handled down laws, then whatever that is termed religious laws should be reviewed and be subjected to humane consideration or the most practical is that archaic ruling should be done away with. If there is any religious laws that is suitable, it should be subject to parliamentary consent.

Secular laws may have its ugly side, but what is critical is that has room for improvement and is subjected to change with time. On the other hand, omniportent
god's law (rightly or wrongly interpretated) are carved in stone tablets.

As Scotland's Macaskill stated, humans has the right to persecute and convict, but it also has the right to compassion. This is how a convicted prisoner who killed more than 250 people was freed on compassionate grounds.
As for religious laws that established and carved in stone tablet, there is unlikely any room for compassion, as god (non existent in the first place) is not available to confirm or consent.

Btw, imo, religion and the concept of god is a critical necessity for humanity at this stage of its progress, but it should not be taken an absolute with unchangeable rigid laws.
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written by Saint, August 28, 2009 17:14:01
Has the Prophet caned any woman in his life time?
And has he personally advised or give the authority to others to cane women.
And should Malaysia follow it even if it is legal in Islam?.
Is there no other type of more "compassionate" form of punishment in Islam, for the same offense? Is canning Mandatory for drinking beer?
This is the big question for the Muslim Ulamaks in Malaysia.
My only comment to the Ulamaks is that they have not even understood the first sentence of the Koran, which is the most quoted verse in the whole of Koran.
How do you expect them to understand the rest.
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 28, 2009 17:23:13
Muryadi,
Your Allah is NOT my ILLAH.

Allah! There is no god but he:-

To refute the Muhammadan assertion that Allah is GOD, the reader should be made aware of the following. Allah is NOT GOD; Allah is only the NAME of a god. Allah was the name of the supreme pagan god of the Ka'ba centuries before the Prophet and his Quran. In Quran's language, GOD is called ILAH, not Allah.

There are numerous verses in different Suras that prove this point. 2:163; 3:18, 216; 4:87; 6:39, 102, 206; 7:65, 73, 85, 158, 159; 9:31, 129; 11: 14, 50, 61, 84; 13: 27, 30; 16:2; 20: 8, 14, 98; 23:3, 32; 24:25; 27:26; 28:70, 88; 35:3; 38:65; 40: 3, 62, 65; 44:8; 47:19; 64:13; 73:9.

2: 163 And your god [ilahakum] is one god [ilahan wahid] ; there is no god [ilah] but He [hooa] Most Gracious Most Merciful [al Rahman al Rahim].

3:18 There is no god [Ilah] but He: that is the witness of Allah [Allah] His angels and those endued with knowledge standing firm on justice. There is no god [ilah] but He the Exalted in Power the Wise.

27:26 "Allah [Allah]! there is no god [Ilah] but He! Lord of the Throne Supreme!"

First Pillar of the Arab Religion: "There is no god [ilah] worthy of worship except ALLAH [Allah] and Muhammad is his messenger", "La Ilah [god] Illa' [except] Allah, wa [and] Muhammad Rasool' [messenger of] Allah"

This declaration of faith for the Arabists is called the Shahada, a simple formula which all the faithful pronounce.

*** Contrary to all the deliberate falsifications by Muhammadan scholars, as can be seen from the Arabic of the Shahada, and other numerous Quranic verses, Allah is NOT GOD but the NAME of a god, just like Jove, Zeus, Venus, etc are names of pagan gods and goddesses in the Greek and Roman pantheon, so was the name Allah who was the supreme deity of the pagan Ka'ba pantheon.

Muhammad's pagan father, after all, was called Abd Allah [Slave of Allah], long before Muhammad's 'revelations' ***

Also note that in Quran, there is NO Muhammad the proper noun but Muhammadin, Muhamadun, Ahmad all of which are adjectives. Muhammadun - The Praised One, could be anybody really. So, the sayings and life of this Arab created entity has no relevance at all in ISLAM as presented by Quran. The DEEN which is NOT a Religion.

Shalom
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written by Commonsenses, August 28, 2009 18:53:03
OMG Rpk, this syariah law is really unjust. Prostituting ones wife is a lighter offence than drinking alcohol. This is muslim law enacted from BN country. Ti Lian Ker what's ur comment on this since u have condemned PAS states all around?
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written by SamBall, August 28, 2009 19:58:33
karthika has made a fool of the mullahs; most of whom are male cowards; malaysia becoming mullahsia!
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written by Caretaker_y, August 28, 2009 20:30:09
Dear Jbao,

Which god or tuhan told you that drinking beer is sin? It sounds that you were a 'Christian' before you got converted to the Islam faith. From what i observe & experience, certain people in Malaysia change their religion for various reasons and motives. Some because of marriage to a person of the other religion which demand that they be converted. Another owing to the whole family coverting. Another for certain material & financial benefits.

It is those who are not truly convicted of what they or their family believes in that tend to convert for one reason or another. If you were initially from a Christian background & knew your Bible well, you would know that nowhere in the Bible is stated that consuming drinks with alcohol content is sin BUT we are reminded not to be drunk with wine(alcoholic). "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit(Holy Spirit not the alcoholic spirit) Ephesians 5:18

Moderation is the answer to that which is fanatical or extremism around us.

Let God the Creator be your Judge and not hypocrates around you. Don't lose your sleep & be stressed-out which can lead to even more problems medically.

"In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths"

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written by newzionis, August 28, 2009 21:08:20
soy sauce and vinegar are brewed before final product. so what's the buzz. fatwa bahan katawa
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written by AtanSian, August 28, 2009 22:12:29
Alcohol is an Arabic word.
It is not the alcohol that is evil.
Consuming it to excess is of course detrimental to the community.
But then I do not expect the brain damaged, self righteous, Shariah Lawyers of Malaysia to know this. Watching them destroy Islam is sufficient to drive good people to drown their sorrows in alcohol.
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written by DontPlayGod, August 28, 2009 22:42:33
raven1958 wrote: "it appears that alot of Malays are going to be out of jobs... ".

That won't be a problem at all. The public service(Government) can easily absorb another 30,000 jobs for those who have to leave their jobs, due to the "alcohol" environment. After all the Government service is one big welfare department. People can be employed for doing nothing. Remember the NEP?
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written by Tsunami08, August 28, 2009 23:26:55
While we are at it, might as well go for the chopping of hands and feet of Muslims and death for adultery etc.

If these Syariah lawyers do their jobs well, soon 60% of population in Msia (including the police, MACC and all our ministers and public servants) would be without hands and feet, with no jobs (due to hiring bans in hotels, airlines, pubs, restaurants etc), or dead.

Good one RPK! smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by Tsunami08, August 28, 2009 23:30:34
Ibnu Sina that great Muslim medical scholar and writer was a sinner - he actually drank!

Don't believe? Go ****** it yourself!
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written by Fart Fart Wah, August 29, 2009 01:20:22
I think this woman is very shrewd...what a publicity for her model career.

and for the syariah lawyers..I do not want to insult myself ..or else it will meant having the same brains as them..

and for the law for not being equal....when were women ever treated equal in Islam??? you are begging the issue....
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written by ibabonma, August 29, 2009 07:48:48
Raid the istanas and see for yourselves whether they stock liquor or not?

Come, I'll show you who drinks the royal bottle at Shangri-la!!

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written by 1eyecls, August 29, 2009 10:02:16
jakim,wud 5% alkohol ruin a person's mind?unless she keeps on drinking for 6 cans or more ,right?

dont be so stupid to follow rules like bible or qorans,what thy meant by liquor probably those contained more than 25% alkohol,we didnt know neither,further more,this is beer,not liquor!stupid ulamak!

go and ask pak tidur,hadhari islam may be more flexible on these penny offences!

we are a secular cum modern islam country,these type of stubburn extreme syariah punishmnt will affect malaysia image in the international platform!

yes,you may argue : shut-up you non-muslims,this is muslims affairs,but look at shah alam,a group of muslims have gone to some non-muslims' sundry shops telling thm stop selling beers......

MACC has their own laws,Jakim has their own enacment,PDRM has their own policies,who overrides who???

WE ARE CONFUSED!!!
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written by cillipepper, August 29, 2009 12:31:12
Dear A.Tojo & Muryadi,

My God is Allah:

Al-Ikhlas | 4 verses | Sura #112 | Makkah

1Say: He, Allah, is One.
2Allah is He on Whom all depend.
3He begets not, nor is He begotten.
4And none is like Him

Salaam,
cillipepper
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written by wishuponastar, August 29, 2009 17:40:05
New charges for RPK...1)accusing the National Airline of being unislamic because serving benda benda haram on board.
2)working against the aspirations of NEP to undermine the Malay economy by implying Muslims should not be gainfully employed in Sports ToTo,
Magnum4D,Genting, Berjaya Holidays,Guiness and Carlsberg breweries, Bursa Saham M'sis,MAS,Police Dog Unit Non-Islamic Banks and of course MAS.
3)instigating readers to compare sentences for buying beer and selling wife.
The number of charges can be increased as the Sharis are still STUDYING.

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written by legallybotak, August 30, 2009 00:57:39
May I add that our govt should not stop at enforcing the sacking of muslims from companies related to "sin" or haram businesses. These companies must also be awarded tax free status as we should not profit in any manner from haram business.
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written by born2reign, August 30, 2009 10:18:55
Islam:
Muslims tempted by alcohol, ban alchohol
Muslims tempted by bare arms and legs, ban shorts and T-shirts. All must wear qurbah.
Muslims tempted by the opposite sex, ban same queues and enforce separate queues for men and women (in case the smell of a musky man turns on the woman)
Muslims tempted by pork, ban pork.
Muslims tempted by pornography, ban the internet.
Muslims tempted by laziness and idleness, ban other people from excelling in their business and education by implementing NEP, and anti-performance policies.

This just prove that Muslims are easily tempted by external forces, they are weak in rejecting bad influence.

Muslims tempted by cigarettes, ...cannot ban because the majority of Malay VIP men are smokers across many generations.
Muslims tempted by women and prostitutes ... cannot ban because Malay VIP men love promiscuous sex.
Muslims tempted by money and greed ... cannot ban because Malay VIP men love easy filthy money and taxes from non-halal industries.
This just prove that Syariah Court is run by VIP men and Money is their god. Allah comes 3rd.
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written by DontPlayGod, August 31, 2009 00:51:36
Daryl wrote:

"Like I say before we need expert in Islam to decide all these not just UMNO dogs running their mouth........"

Whether its Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, who can say they are experts? I don't believe anybody can call himself or others experts in any religion. Just because he has studied Islam in a renowned islamic university does not qualify that person to be called knowledgeable or expert. So too for the experts in other religions. I have read up on some religions, though not much, but I will form and interpret what I have read. I only go for the essence of what I think the scriptures say, but I will not call myself, nor anybody elese an expert. After all, who can say one is an expert or anybody else is an expert? Just because he has read the scriptures 10 times, or just because he has studied in a religious college, or studied under some well-known priest? I will interpret the scriptures my own way, and whether I am right or wrong, only God will be my final arbiter, and nobody else.

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written by SamBall, August 31, 2009 02:25:49
Aiya, very easy solution to this entire liquor problem...

Just let me drink all the liquor and wine in this world; that way there is none left to tempt all the poor weak willed souls; you buy, I drink, OK? I save the world, get rid of this sinful thing, you be saved, not a bad deal, eh?

But wait a minute, my simple mind says; this is a question of supply & demand, the more you drink (free or not), there more the supply. So how?

See what other countries are doing about this serious problem la, kawan; ban itu, ban ini mana ada jalan? Lu ingat kita semua orang bodoh kah?

Education first, be open minded a bit and flexible la.. don't be bloody hypocrites. As for religion, please don't bring alcohol into religion; enough with race already; ini Msia boleh, tau!

The brave Kartika has certainly made a fool of Msia, and its hypocritical shariah laws. Buat malu saja (amat besar kemaluan saya)...
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written by Mik, September 01, 2009 13:42:52
A lady drinking beer alone? Hardly. I would love to know who else were there beside her during the raid.
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