==> Pls visit new site at http://malaysia-today.net/ <==

No one other than UMNO morons are messing around with court decisions whenever it is deemed politically unfavorable to them. DID Kartika appeal, not that we know off, BUT then how come Syariah court decided to review the canning decision, must be pressure from political master lah, just like MACC going full swing to nail PR in Selangor.

report abuse

disagree 2

agree 138

Then be equally vociferous with anti Islamic wrongdoings like corrupt practices, draconian laws.

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 97

Respect have to be EARN, not force people to respect. Good Law people will respect automatically. Bad Law need to be removed. We are not Taliban here. Do you Shariah lawyers respect women rights or not. If you want to tower over the women please go and stay in Afghanistan, dont come back please.

report abuse

disagree 23

agree 123

Syriah should be restricted to Marriage,Divorce and Death.The rest should follow the common law.None of the countries in the Islamic world that follow the Syriah are economically successful.A full Syriah concept does not work in this global scenario,and more so in the Malaysian context of a multi-racial and multi-cultural country.The road forward is asuper highway and yet we are at all times coursing the pot holed road to nowhere.

report abuse

disagree 16

agree 90

It seems that these people have even lost trust in Muslims. Catch this,arrest that,punish those and warn everyone.
They have turned Islam into a forceful, violence and unreasonable religion.
They are so protective because they are so insecure.
They are so forceful because they are so weak.
Show some trust for your fellow muslims. If they had failed Allah. The wise and almighty Allah will punishes where He deems fit.
You and I repeat You will not get any extra credit for forcing discipline to others.
You will only help others to flee Islam.

report abuse

disagree 7

agree 98

Come on, people, don't be too quick in voting IbnAbdHalim down just because you do not agree with what he says.

Dear IbnAbdHalim, maybe you should also quote the verse in the Quran about 6 lashes for women who drink intoxicating drinks so that people can follow your argument. Quoting verses from the Quran the way you have done is like a Christian quoting the Bible to a Muslim. Would a Muslim understand or even want to listen?

Spell out the punishment clearly and the verse/chapter in the Quran. That is the way to educate non-Muslims as well as Muslims.

report abuse

disagree 8

agree 61

Nobody messed around with the court's decision. Kartika was on way to Kajang Prison to be prepared for her caning. No one protested or demonstrated against it. Then like a P Ramlee comedy her van turned back because some people from UMNO controlled institutions told her to turn back because it is the fasting month and no caning should be carried. Any I found that strange because in Iraq they blow up more people on Fridays and during Ramadan. So talk to your UMNO brothers about it.

report abuse

disagree 2

agree 78

Heheheheh Well well just blame the Kafir. You forget its not the bar council that interfere, But its the Home Minister, The Prime Minister, The UMNO WanitaPresident, and The All Mighty Ex Prime Minister that put pressure on the Syariah Appeal Court to revoke the sentence.

But typical of Pembela... will never dare oppose UMNO but blam the Kafir instead. hahhaha Please dont you know its the month of Ramadan. You not suppose to do such things lah!!

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 76

ha, i sure like to see how they do the caning without raising their fore arm from armpit, i suggest they held it at stadium bukit jalil on August 31st together with 'Michael Learns to Rock' concert with fireworks display and maybe they can invite MLTR members 4 of them if i not mistaken plus our PM and DPM to perform one stroke each, gam-gam! what say you?

report abuse

disagree 3

agree 42

To the Malaysian Syarie Lawyers’ Association (PGSM)and
Pembela (umbrella body of several Muslim NGOs): how very convenient of you to stand up so self-righteously and indigninantly over this matter when there are so many, MANY, more issues that are far more pressing!

One girl sips a beer and gets caught and severely punished. Meanwhile, we are enduring all kinds of crimes and corruption and can do nothing more than watch helplessly but with growing anger and anguish as it seems the law enforcement can do little about this. How many in your esteemed organisations actually feel safe going out on the streets anymore? Even having a meal in an upscale restaurant in Bangsar Shopping Complex is no longer safe as a group of foreigners recently found out when they were physically attacked and robbed in front of a crowd of diners.

Have you said or done anything about the rampant corruption and blatant abuse of powers? Have you said anything about the countless crimes committed by Mat Rempits and the overall rise in crime? Have you said anything about the many Muslim women who have been abandoned by their husbands and are not receiving any aid? Have you said anything about the long-standing drug problem with the Muslim youth of Malaysia?

Have you said anything about the involvement of Muslims in companies that deal with such things as the production and distribution of alcohol, gambling and even cigerettes since there was a fatwa passed against smoking years ago?

And there are many other issues that you could be standing up for. Do not be selective about what issues you want to make noise over. It only makes you appear prejudiced.

When you are truly fair and ready to speak out on these many issues that need addressing, you can be sure that many Malaysians, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs included, will be listening.

report abuse

disagree 4

agree 114

I think it is fair to expect and also demand that non-Muslims should butt out of Muslim laws and customs if the implementation of those laws does not affect them, either directly or indirectly.
Muslims should be left alone to find their own solutions to problems created by the implementation of their own laws.

However, I don't think any human rightists could be blamed for meddling if Muslim organisations or individuals were persecuted or victimised for speaking out by those claiming to represent the majority.

report abuse

disagree 7

agree 17

I won't campur tangan in such religious matter, but I can't help observing the fact that the syariah authorities or enforcers are either super duper efficient in weeding out this rare 'menace' of beer-drinking ladies, or super daft in not noticing the more numerous imbibing Muslim men.

Oklah, let me throw in a caveat to cover my backside...... heard from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another ..... (REO Speedwagon, haha...) No lah, I don't know of any such guys .... maybe they are Filipinos. Hmmm.... yeah, that's right, they are Filipinos!

So be able to arrest and prosecute one, O-N-E, lady must be like finding the needle in the haystack. Hey, that's great investigating job, brader!

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 15

There is so much o selective prosecution. They are bullying Kartika because she is not well connected and defenseless. What about the KL bars and hotels, go there any evening and you are bound to see someone who shouldn't be drinking there. But they drive 4-wheel drives with single digit number plate. And what about the self confessed adulterer Razak baginda. When are the authorites going to whip him for his affair with Altantuya? And someone please post the photo of our Hishamkeris with his beer can again. Whip him as well.

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 45

As long as non-Muslim tax money is used to pay these moral policemen, religious court officers etc, and you yourselves are squeaky clean, then you can say what you said.

Let's see what we can find if we raid the houses of these PGSM lawyers! Bet ya - there will be pirated DVD's (maybe of the wrong kind), and other things like....

Let the man who has never sinned give Kartika her first lash.

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 34

Harussani Zakaria, the mufti for northern Perak state - an Islamic scholar empowered to give rulings on the Syariah - endorsed the push for stricter implementation of Islamic law.

'People will ask, you have this law, why don't you practise it? When we practise it, then the government interrupts the process,' he complained, adding that Kartika should be punished swiftly.

There you go PEMBELA, No kafir interfere with the syariah court. From the word of the Sate Mufti himself. Its the government ( UMNO lah) that interfere!!!!

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 37

To Shariah lawyers,

This is a free country that practises common laws. Religious Legal System is a piece of shit left behind by Umnono/The-End. If you want justice, go after them. Media had also reported that PM had requested the model to civil court to overturn the syariah court's decision. This country is ruled by a common civil legal system, which treats and punishes individual fairly and in a more humane way. I bet majority (Malaysia as a whole) including some Muslims are opposing to Islamic Legal system due to some of its cruel punishments. Criminals should be punished but they ought to be given a second chance too. If the hands of a thieve are chopped off, how is going to carry on life and repent his guilt. He might become a burden to the society since he needs time to re-adjust and forget about the painful punishment.

Please re-engage the Federal Government for an Islamic state. Which legal system has the last say? A referendum is a way to know the people's wish.

No offense if my comments are suck.

report abuse

disagree 4

agree 24

I think only the Muslims in Malaysia are particularly particular about Syriah Law. Does that mean that other Muslim countries are not as religious or as Muslim and good! Sigh. What a waste of good energy and time, just discuss amoung the right people and close the subject, a small issue needs so much publicity, consumed so much energy like everybody got nothing else better to do! By the way, also deliberate over whether corruption and steal needs to use Syriah Law or not - chop hands or etc, don't waste time in the future...

report abuse

disagree 5

agree 15

Why don't the Islamic scholars and leaders look into ways to improve the quality of people's lives instead of concentrating in creating an Islamic state?

Use your Islam knowledge to influence people to be good in their own ways instead of spying and punishing them.

More and more youngsters are exposed to the West ideaology as they grow up in a Internet age Muslim's community. Their moral mentality are getting worse. You can read from forums/newspaper about taking sex video, fighting in groups, Motor gangs and etc.

Enforcing moral using Islamic education is a good attempt to correct the bad influences in a modern society. Work together with other religious groups to make the attempt more effective. Collaboration will synergise the efforts to reduce bad influences and create harmony among all religious groups.

Harmony brings happiness.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 25

The shariah lawyers are All munafiq.The enforcement of shariah must be blind.With rampant corruption by muslim from the policeman up to the highest office,not a single one is caned and there have to look for aneedle in a haystack of offerders to come up with a woman,which they intend to humiliate for the world to see.
When the true mukmim muncul as the orang Tuhan,all these lawyers will be caned publiclly and their families and umno vip ensured front row seat.

report abuse

disagree 2

agree 21

Frankly Stuff you Syriah Lawyers....You can't even Respect Lina Joy conversion Out of Islam and you talk as if your Stupid Syriah Law is so Supreme....Frankly you have insulted Islam and it takes non-muslim to show you the Obvious. You are shameless, gutless bunch of Munafik!!

First Swear under Koran that all Mosque, Syriah were built with Pure Halal money...i.e none came from liquor tax, gambling tax, Pork eating human tax...etc.

Go Migrate to Saudi Arabia or Afganistan where they starve their wife if she refuse Sex...go and GET LOST from Malaysia. Malaysia is a Secular Nation and over my dead body it will ever be a muslim Nation. Go on Get lost from Malaysia its has ALWAYS been a Secular Nation ruined by Munafik like you and UMNO!

report abuse

disagree 4

agree 44

"He added that the group regrets the statement by Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein that there was no one authorized to carry out the syariah caning. “There are , in fact, authorized persons who can carry out the punishment.”"

Here we go again, yet another lie by another famous UMNO Minister. The disease is definitely spreading from the top down.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 20

Our Muslim UMNO leaders and their favourite hobby:

http://i346.photobucket.com/al...muddin.jpg

http://pemudasarawak.files.*********.com/2009/02/khairy-mabuk.jpg?w=400&h=259

CHEERS!

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 6

You call canning education? Perhaps you can tell us how you got your education? Surely you didn't get yourself canned all the way to a degree in Islamic law?

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 22

This Mohd Isa would do well to move to either Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. There he may enjoy all the cruel and archaic laws that he so favors. I do not mind having my tax ringgit being used to pay for his 1 wat ticket.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 14

why only the muslim have theirs?dont bull shit,i dont see any harmony at all.tell me which court holds higher authority above the other?50% of malaysian are non muslim and the money used to pay your syariah lawyers came from the tax all malaysian paid be they muslim or non muslim.you people seem to be so special you can have your syariah court ,why cant we have ours?.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 13

Dear friends, I don't know but just would like find out from you guys,

For consuming Beer, Kartika was fined RM5,000 and sentenced to six strokes. Ok, what I want to know is what should be the punishment for the ex-minister for grobe the butt of a girl in the public? please don't get me wrong. Since I don't know much about the Islamic Law, I just would like to know more about it. Thank you for those who taking the trouble to explain to me on the law for this situation

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 24

Pembela -- go la and help those poor people instead of coming out with statements like this

However, he said, groups like the Bar Council and other non-Muslim based organisations should not interfere in the affairs of Islam and to just leave related issues to those who have the authority to deal with them.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 8

mahathir fueled the islamic fundamentalism when anwar was arrested and malays abandoned umno for pas, and in order to regain umno's crdibility, he tried to make umno more religious than pas.

The religious extremist got their platform, and now, no malay politician dare to go against these extreme religious authorities/individuals as can be seen in the MP for Kulim, zulkifli nordin fearing political backlash.
Only RPK has the balls to fight for justice to all irrespective of race and religion.

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 15

Sounds familiar, infact just like AMNO.
"Jangan Cabar Kami!"

Pembela Kambing should start checking the facts before we Kaffirs sue your a$$ for coming out with defamatory statements and that will be on a civil court.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 13

These PGSM and Pembela fellas said the Bar Council shouldn't interfere in the Syariah Courts affairs. I wouldn't be surprised if these dungus think the Bar Council does not serve the rakyat but serve Tequila Sunrise, Vodka, Rum, Single Malt, Singapore Sling etc.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 15

PGSM, likewise please tell the gomen that they cannot impose islamic laws on non-Muslims like the 'Allah' issue.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 12

you stop messing with mine and I will stop messing with yours.

So leave the constitution alone.

Get the drift?

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 12

Dear IbnAbd Halim & Pet,

Shurb(literally means “drinking”)

The Quran has not prescribed a punishment for “drinking”.
Unequivocal Hadith( a source of Islamic rules & regulations in addition to Quran, Qias & Ijma’ Ulama’) prescribed the punishment without fixing the number of lashes. The punishment was implemented several times during the lifetime of the Prophet saw*.

*Sahih Al Bukhari, “Kitab al Hudud’, Vol.8,pp. 13,14 &15

May God guide us to the righteous path

Selamat mengerjakan Ibadah Puasa

cillipepper

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 2

written by Areyaar, August 27, 2009 18:06:48
To the Malaysian Syarie Lawyers’ Association (PGSM)and
Pembela (umbrella body of several Muslim NGOs): how very convenient of you to stand up so self-righteously and indigninantly over this matter when there are so many, MANY, more issues that are far more pressing!

One girl sips a beer and gets caught and severely punished. Meanwhile, we are enduring all kinds of crimes and corruption and can do nothing more than watch helplessly but with growing anger and anguish as it seems the law enforcement can do little about this

How will disrespecting the principle of rule of law help to solve the corruption problem of Malaysia?

report abuse

disagree 3

agree 2

Dear IbnAdb Halim & Pet,
Hadiths from Sahih Bukhari on punishment for Shurb:

764

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet beat a drunk with palm-leaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave (such a sinner) forty lashes.

765

Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith: An-Nu'man or the son of An-Nu'man was brought to the Prophet on a charge of drunkenness. So the Prophet ordered all the men present in the house, to beat him. So all of them beat him, and I was also one of them who beat him with shoes.

766

Narrated' Uqba bin Al-Harith: An-Nu'man or the son of An-Nu'man was brought to the Prophet in a state of intoxication. The Prophet felt it hard (was angry) and ordered all those who were present in the house, to beat him. And they beat him, using palm-leaf stalks and shoes, and I was among those who beat him.

767

Narrated Anas: The Prophet lashed a drunk with dateleaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave a drunk forty lashes.

768

Narrated Abu Salama: Abu Huraira said, "A man who drank wine was brought to the Prophet. The Prophet said, 'Beat him!" Abu Huraira added, "So some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (by twisting it) like a lash, and then when we finished, someone said to him, 'May Allah disgrace you!' On that the Prophet said, 'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.' "

769

Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib: I would not feel sorry for one who dies because of receiving a legal punishment, except the drunk, for if he should die (when being punished), I would give blood money to his family because no fixed punishment has been ordered by Allah's Apostle for the drunk.

770

Narrated As-Sa'ib bin Yazid: We used to strike the drunks with our hands, shoes, clothes (by twisting it into the shape of lashes) during the lifetime of the Prophet, Abu Bakr and the early part of 'Umar's caliphate. But during the last period of 'Umar's caliphate, he used to give the drunk forty lashes; and when drunks became mischievous and disobedient, he used to scourge them eighty lashes.

771

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab: During the lifetime of the Prophet there was a man called 'Abdullah whose nickname was Donkey, and he used to make Allah's Apostle laugh. The Prophet lashed him because of drinking (alcohol). And one-day he was brought to the Prophet on the same charge and was lashed. On that, a man among the people said, "O Allah, curse him ! How frequently he has been brought (to the Prophet on such a charge)!" The Prophet said, "Do not curse him, for by Allah, I know for he loves Allah and His Apostle."

772

Narrated Abu Huraira: A drunk was brought to the Prophet and he ordered him to be beaten (lashed). Some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (twisted in the form of a lash). When that drunk had left, a man said, "What is wrong with him? May Allah disgrace him!" Allah's Apostle said, "Do not help Satan against your (Muslim) brother."

772

Narrated Abu Huraira: A drunk was brought to the Prophet and he ordered him to be beaten (lashed). Some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (twisted in the form of a lash). When that drunk had left, a man said, "What is wrong with him? May Allah disgrace him!" Allah's Apostle said, "Do not help Satan against your (Muslim) brother."

For your info and compliant if applicable.

cillipepper

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 0

Arab religious laws

Beside ritual prayers and the ritual worship practices, the religionists who invented the religion also mandated religious laws that have nothing in common with God and His prophets. God’s way has a benchmark here on earth: the Reading. He called His book the Criterion.40 It is a book among books, a criterion, a standard by which all else is measured.

With this benchmark, one can decisively discern whether something is good or bad, true or false, sacred or profane, real or imaginary. Having given us a rule by which all can be measured, it is assumed that a person will use this God- given benchmark often. The Devil, of course, will try to make it inaccurate. He has already done this by obscuring the original intent and limits of the Criterion.

For example, in 2:224-242 we find eighteen verses, which outline amicable justice on the subject of marriage and divorce. They further illustrate the guidelines and methods for resolving marital disputes. These guidelines are self-explanatory and can be put into practice by anyone. In other words, God has directed His people to apply a behavioural etiquette that does not include priests or any religious authority whatever. Thus, there is no need for any new, independent body of lawmakers to formulate ‘Islamic’ religious laws on marriage and divorce. The very existence of supplementary human laws to ‘augment’ the word of God is horrifyingly arrogant. It places the justice of People on the same level as the decrees of God.

Even in vernacular law, the essence of the law is paramount. We cannot go beyond the limits set. For example, if the minimum wage for a worker is ten dollars per day, we are free to pay him anything as long as it is not less than the stipulated sum. This concept is not man-made. Any individual who believes in God and the Hereafter is free to observe God’s guidelines as long as they do not exceed the limits prescribed by God. If they transgress the limits, God will judge them. If He be the Judge, it is redundant to have God’s guidance anointed with the title ‘Islamic’ law, religious law or ‘shari’ah’ law.

The purpose of Scripture is not to impose religious laws but to replace unjust human law. The Scripture is a law unto itself. It is complete in form and function. We have sent our messengers with clear revelations and We sent down with them the Scripture as the measure (mizan) to spread justice among the people. (57:25)

Let us take this concept a little further along and consider the following:

• Legislators and lawmakers of any civilised government (not including, naturally, the lawmakers of the Arab religion) will agree that no man or woman who commits adultery should be executed.
• The same servants of Justice (except for the religionists and their cohorts and dupes) will agree a person is free to believe or disbelieve in God, and that he or she is free to change their belief anytime without being punished by priests (or anyone else) for their decision.

• Similarly, the legislators (except the same people mentioned above) will agree that a divorced woman should not be deprived of her freedom and she should have reasonable provisions until she is able to find other alternatives or reconciliation.

These are just some instances of guidance which are humanely spelt out in the Reading. They are correct principles, which work together for the advancement and cohesion of society. Civilised countries have come to practice them after many years of experimentation and observation. They have come to implement them because they are fair and because they work. The Reading gives us a shortcut to a generative rule of law. The basis is not religion. The basis is Life. The basis is rooted in providing a plan for a way of life, designed toaccommodate the human condition fairly and firmly. All prophets taught this.

The question arises: if the Arab lawmakers were so keen to ‘legalise’ the law of God, why did they not then legislate requirements for other equally important aspects of the Reading like civility, politeness, consideration, respect, empathy, patience, humility, charity on human welfare, temperance and mercy? Shouldn’t the Arab version of God’s law appear God-like in nature instead of tyrannical? The only conclusion any student of Islamic law can arrive at is that ‘Islamic’ laws originating from the religionists are not found in the Reading and are far from divinely inspired.

40 According to the Chambers Encyclopaedia English Dictionary, the word ‘criterion’ means: a standard or principle on which to base a Judgement. The word furqan is used when Moses was given the Torah (2:53 & 1:4smilies/cool.gif, and to Jesus in 3:4. The Quran is called the furqan or‘criterion’ in 2:185 and 25:1. In the Arab religion the man-made ‘syari’ah’ is the ‘criterion’ not the Qur’an.

It is no wonder that the Arab world is in confusion and chaos. The religious laws of the Arab religion vary from country to country: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Algeria, Oman, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, and many other places have differing laws all claiming to be inspired by God. How is it that a divinely inspired law varies so much by geographical location? It can only mean that each location has a different ‘religious god’ at the helm. This has reduced Islamic ‘shari’ah’ law (41) to a comical position. No two ‘Islamic’ countries have the same ‘Islamic’ laws. If it weren’t so sad, it would be hilarious.

Let us now examine what God intended before people started meddling.

Example one:
It is the incumbent duty of everyone to make a will for the benefit of their parents and children or their next of kin before death approaches any one of them (2:180-182)

This is a simple decree observed by most people with any common sense. It encourages planning and pre- meditation. It solves problems before they are created. It makes the bereavement less difficult on the grieving. It is just plain civil. The religionists and their courts tell us that it is forbidden (or Haram) to make a will in the Arab religion. The religious priests or religious authority will decide what, how, and to whom a dead person’s assets should be
distributed. And, of course, a certain portion of the assets may well be reserved for some invented religious purpose.

(41) 42:21 forbids instituting any religious laws. Every man has the full right and freedom to conduct his personal way of life. The law of Justice and matters of crimes and security of a state is to be formulated through consensus by the experts of each field, which can be amended to suit circumstances.

Example two:
Any person who believes in God, then disbelieves, and then believes and then disbelieves and persists in disbelieve will not be forgiven by God (4:137) People are given the absolute right to believe or disbelieve in God. If they reject belief and persist in doing so, God will not pardon them in the Hereafter. That is all. There is no compulsion in the deen. Truth is now distinguished from falsehood. Thus, those who reject idol-worship and believe in God have grasped the strongest bond that never breaks. God is hearer, omniscient. (2:256)

The people can exercise their right and freedom to accept or to reject God’s revelations (42), yet He will not punish them in this world if they choose to reject His Scripture:

You can believe therein or disbelieve. (17:107)
The religionists, in their contorted wisdom, have declared that anyone who renounces the ‘religion’ must be sentenced to death. It is very much Jewish in nature.

Example three:
A person is expected to use his or her intellect and reason. God will not guide those who defy their common sense (10:100)

Yet, somewhere along the line an adherent of the Arab religion declared:
Those who use their common sense will be burned in Hell. (Sahih Bukhari43)

42 There must not be any court of law to deny a person's right in matters of faith.

Shalom

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 3

Kartika should be caned as per the Syariah Law. After that, I hope more "paparazzis" would go out and hunt down those UMNO drinkers and they too should go through the same punishment. NOW THAT WOULD BE FUN!

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 5

Pendatang do not mess, harras or pressure the syariah court. Who are we to do that, however you begin to sound like MACC. Don't mess with us or else type of this. For your info if you do not know how to read and if you do but did not read the newspaper or internet it is your UMNOputras , the PM and the ministers that are messing with you. Go get them.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 2

Don't mess with idiots from the dark ages.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 3

written by cabearth, August 27, 2009 23:26:46

"How will disrespecting the principle of rule of law help to solve the corruption problem of Malaysia?"

HUH??? Did you even bother to read the rest of what I had written before asking such a question? Obviously you haven't been able to grasp the enormity of the situation. It isn't the principle of law here that is being disrespected but the holier-than-thou yet selective principles of those who are conveniently choosing what to make noises over. How hard is it to understand that if anyone wants to take such a don't-mess-with-us stance then they better stand up for everything that is unfair!!!

But as we see time and time again, this is not the case.

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 2

Dear cillipepper, maybe you don't understand English. I asked IbnAdbHalim to quote the verse from the Quran. Why are you quoting Hadiths? Do you understand? Q-U-R-A-N....Quran. Do you need me to quote you the verse from the Quran that says the Quran is the only Hadith?

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 3

Dear Pete
I am a muslim General Manager of a major international company. Whenever I meet my bosses and counterparts of the HQ (Danmark) I have to drink (beer brewed by my company) and dine with them inside Malaysia as well as abroad. This happens at about twice a month. After reading KArtika's conviction I am at a dilemma. I love my job and my beer (acquired taste after joining the company 20 years ago). At the same time I feel that I am not MAN and Muslim enough to openly admit my sin and accept the punishment as KARTIKA. Further after the canning in public can I still continue with my job. Frankly I need the money to feed my big family but as you said, we are all living in SIN since the money I earn to feed them is HARAM. Alternatively I can renounce ISLAM and become a Christain but again I would be running foul of Malaysian laws. Either way I am a dead duck. Please help as I am loosing sleep over the matter. Why must this "stupid woman" accept her punishment like a MAN and now make us (MEN) all look like PONDANS and exposed as SINFUL. If you cannot help me I think there is no way out but to be man enough to commit suicide. Thanks in anticipation of your help and guidance.

report abuse

disagree 1

agree 5

1-In a Democratic society there will be no room for such laws .
Malaysian Constitution did accord Islam as official religion but short of saying there must be Islamic laws . Therefore this is a Secular country.

2-The public knows very well that certain VIPs (Muslim ) drinks but why no actions against them. Why nabs a commoner like in this case Kartika.
She paid for the beer. This means she paid the Malaysian government alcoholic duty/tax and government service tax.
And yet, she was fined and ordered to be whipped.

3- the Islamic scholars contradicted each another.
One said that whipping for such offense is NOT found in the Quran.
While another claimed that under Islamic law she will get 80 lashes max.

4-While she wanted to be whipped and get it done, the prison dept cannot do so. She must first be a prisoner in a real prison and only then the prison dept be able to apply the court instruction to whip her.
She cannot be whipped because she is NOT a prisoner.

5- The "judge" issued another order to "detain" her in a prison.
This is an illegal move, as the "judge" already sentenced her earlier.
This means Kartika will be receiving 2 judgments for a single offend.
"detain / tahan " is NOT "imprisonment / penjara ".

6- This means the Islamic law is NOT specific because government is not ready for it. Blames that "judge" or blames the umno government ?

7- Initially the "judge" wanted to whips her in the court room, but the "judge" is a male.
A male cannot whips a female. It is the law.

8- the brewery which the beer come from is from Malaysia ! Board of directors of the brewery involves Muslims too. Dont they too deserves to be whipped for brewing/selling/marketing/dist... beer to another muslim?

She paid the fine in full (RM5000) and the medias already shamed her , named her , influential and learned mufti teases her and her photos on front pages of every known medias in the country. .Dont traumatized her family anymore.

Let her go.
She is NOT the criminal that we are looking for

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 3

Dear PET,

…Dear IbnAbdHalim, maybe you should also quote the verse in the Quran about 6 lashes for women who drink intoxicating drinks…PET

…The Quran has not prescribed a punishment for “drinking”…cillipepper

…Dear cillipepper, maybe you don't understand English. I asked IbnAdbHalim to quote the verse from the Quran…PET

I understand the message in English clearly.

Islam prohibits ‘drinking’ gradually and this gradualness is revealed in the following verses:

16:67
2:219
4:43
5:90 & 91

Let me say it again in English.

The Quran has NOT prescribed a punishment for Shurb.

You still need to refer to the Hadiths for the punishment.

See the Hadiths I quoted above.

This is what the QURAN & HADITH say about prohibitions & punishments for Shurb.

God Almighty knows best.

Best regards,
cillipepper

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 1

WAH Jbao.. u r muslim and u like drinking beer everytime...
i doubt that u r muslim.... kalau tidak minum beer, x bolehkah?
as a good muslim, u must show good example to u'r Danish bosses and counterparts.. but u choose to follow their way...


hmm...

report abuse

disagree 0

agree 0