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It’s not about Islam but about profits PDF Print
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Monday, 24 August 2009 16:57

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So don’t get overly worried. Khalid may not be the best Menteri Besar in Malaysia. He may not even be the best businessman. But that does not mean he was trying to run away with Bank Islam’s money. There is certainly more to the story than just Khalid defaulting on his RM60 million loan.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim’s ongoing skirmish with Bank Islam brings back memories of my own skirmish with this same bank 25 years or so ago. Actually it was two skirmishes, ten years apart.

The first involved three loans that I took from them back in the early 1980s. Each loan was RM500,000. So the total came to RM1.5 million. To secure these loans I charged three pieces of property to them. Two were shop-houses in Kuala Terengganu and the third was a three-storey bungalow on a 10,000 square feet piece of land in Bangsar. Each property was valued at RM500,000 (back in the 1980s, mind you).

But Bank Islam could not give out loans, so to speak. They can only come into partnership with you. They become your partner in the purchase of the property. So what the bank did was it purchased the three properties from me, which were already in my name in the first place, and resold them back to me.

The way it worked was as follows. Bank Islam bought the property from me at RM500,000 apiece. So the total of the three came to RM1.5 million. And this is the amount they paid me - RM1.5 million. The bank then sold back the property to me at RM1.1 million apiece. And I had to pay back the bank RM6,111 per month over 15 years. For the three pieces of property I would have to pay them RM18,333 per month over 15 years.

In short, I ‘unofficially’ borrowed RM1.5 million from Bank Islam and had to pay them back RM3.3 million over 15 years at RM18,333 per month. As I said, this was more than 25 years ago, back in the early 1980s, so it was quite a burden at that time as it was quite a huge sum of money.

Anyway, a couple of years later, in 1987, the economy collapsed and my three pieces of property, originally worth RM1.5 million, dropped to about RM700,000 or so. Because of the bad economic situation and the stock market collapse on ‘Black Monday’, also in 1987, I could no longer afford the RM18,333 a month payments. I decided, therefore, to sell off the properties and pay back the bank what I owed.

I worked out the arithmetic. I had borrowed RM1.5 million from the bank. Over 7 years I have already paid back the bank RM1.5 million. I still had more than halfway to go to complete the 15 years. And I would still have to pay the bank a further RM1.8 million if I go the full 15 years.

But the three pieces of property were worth less than half the price I bought them for. The properties were now worth only RM700,000-RM800,000 and I had originally bought them for cash at a price of RM1.5 million. But I had already paid Bank Islam this full amount of RM1.5 million. What was left outstanding is the bank’s ‘profit’ (not interest) of RM1.8 million that it was charging me on my 'unofficial loan'.

I met the bank to negotiate a full settlement. I would sell off the three pieces of property for a total price of about RM700,000 to RM800,000. Would the bank be prepared to accept RM800,000 as the full settlement figure and give me a rebate of RM1 million? I would lose RM1.5 million on the deal if the bank were prepared to forgo RM1 million of its ‘profit’ (not interest).

That, I explained, was a reasonable request. After all, my loan was for 15 years and I was going to make full settlement after only 7 years. This means I am paying off my loan 8 years ahead of time and was going to take a loss of RM1.5 million. But I wanted a RM1 million rebate on the 8 years early settlement.

The bank said no. I would have to pay the full RM1.8 million due on what I still owed the bank. No doubt I was paying back what I owed in 7 years rather than 15 years. But the bank never gave me a loan. What the bank did was it signed a Sales and Purchase agreement with me. The bank had bought the three pieces of property from me for a total price of RM1.5 million and had sold them back to me for a total price of RM3.3 million. The RM1.8 million was the profit the bank was making from me for allowing me to pay back the RM3.3 million at RM18,333 per month over 15 years.

The bank further explained that it was not they who were asking me to make full settlement. I still had 8 years more to go. It was my decision to make full settlement in 7 years instead of paying off the amount over 15 years.

I was flabbergasted. I already paid the bank RM1.5 million, the amount I borrowed. No doubt the bank has to make a profit on the 7 years I had used their money. But surely they could give me a rebate since I am paying back the full amount in 7 years instead of stretching the loan over 15 years.

But the bank was adamant. They wanted me to pay them another RM1.8 million. But how could I? The three pieces of property were going to be sold for only RM800,000, or slightly less. So I would be RM1 million short.

The bank agreed to ‘compromise’. I can sell off the three pieces of property for RM800,000. The bank will agree to release the property if the RM800,000 comes to them. But I have to offer additional security for the RM1 million still outstanding.  I had no choice but to charge other properties to the bank. The properties I charged to secure the RM1 million difference were 45 pieces of land worth roughly RM20,000 per piece.

The three pieces of property were sold off and the bank took their RM800,000. Later, I also sold the 45 pieces of land and the bank took this money as well. But since I sold off the 45 pieces of land not piece by piece, but by block sale, I could not get a good price. I lost about RM500,000 on the land.

The bank was kind enough to offer me a ‘discount’. They just took whatever I got on the land and did not press me for more than that. Finally, I ended up paying back the bank almost double what I borrowed and I lost my two shop-houses, the Bangsar bungalow and the 45 pieces of land. In the end, I ended up with zero.

The bottom line is, I did not borrow money from the bank and the bank never gave me a loan. What the bank did was it bought my property from me and sold them back to me at more than double the price. And I was supposed to pay back this purchase price over 15 years.

I argued that the Sales and Purchase agreement was a farce. The properties were already in my name in the first place and remained in my name throughout. It was merely a paper transaction. We signed a Sales Agreement where I ‘sold’ the bank my property and we signed another agreement, a Purchase Agreement, where I ‘bought’ the property from the bank. But the bank’s name never appeared on the land titles. They never became the owner of the property. They only took a charge. And what about the other pieces of land that they took as additional security, which were sold off and the bank took the money? Where does this come in if the transaction was not a loan?

My second skirmish with the bank was when I wrote an article about Bank Islam, which was published in Harakah. The article was called ‘How Islamic is Bank Islam?’. In that article I related the story I just related above.

Bank Islam’s lawyers got in touch with Harakah and threatened to sue them for publishing this article. In the end, they got cold feet and decided not to sue because they were worried that this story I just related would become public knowledge.

I was pissed. I felt that the bank had screwed me good and proper. I only borrowed RM1.5 million from them even though they deny it was a loan and say that it was a sales and purchase arrangement. But we all know it was a loan, only that they disguised the loan as a sales and purchase arrangement.

I had already fully paid the RM1.5 million which I borrowed. I was prepared to pay them another RM800,000 for the 7 years I had used their money. I was also prepared to take a RM1.5 million loss on the deal. I only wanted a rebate of RM1 million on the 8 years I was no longer going to use their money.

But they said no. They wanted their full 15 years profit of RM1.8 million even if I am paying them back the full amount in 7 years. And because of that I had to sell off everything I owned to pay them the amount they were demanding even though I was making full settlement. That practically broke me financially, at a time when the entire world was facing an economic crisis and a stock market collapse.

The issue here, as explained by the bank, was that they never gave me a loan. Instead, they sold me three pieces of property for an agreed sales price and an agreed payback period. I can choose to pay them back early If I wish. I can even sell off the property if I wish. But I must pay back the bank RM3.3 million and not a penny less.

Yes, it was very complicating indeed. And the Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim issue is as complicating. On the surface they make it appear like Khalid owes the bank RM60 million and did not pay back. Actually, that is not the issue at all. Maybe Khalid should explain what happened like how I have explained above.

Remember, the mainstream media is owned and controlled by Barisan Nasional. So rest assured they are going to spin the story as if Khalid is a delinquent. But I know Bank Islam and I know how they operate. And I am not the only one who got screwed by them. Many others can relate their own horror stories on how they were at the receiving end when they dealt with Bank Islam, which is far from Islamic.

So don’t get overly worried. Khalid may not be the best Menteri Besar in Malaysia. He may not even be the best businessman. But that does not mean he was trying to run away with Bank Islam’s money. There is certainly more to the story than just Khalid defaulting on his RM60 million loan.

Comments (65)Add Comment
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written by MSIABOLEH, August 24, 2009 17:12:04
I trust you.
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written by teo siew chin, August 24, 2009 17:22:20
sigh... it's not only islamic banking that is uncompromising.
conventional banking is just as 'profit' orientated.
maybe khalid should reveal the arithmetics too.
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written by Jan, August 24, 2009 17:27:57
If RPK had kept those properties till today he would have been a very wealthy man.
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written by slash n burn, August 24, 2009 17:29:10
Arithmeticaly 120% for 7 years! Nothing Islamic about this. In other words Bank Islam makan duit RIBA.
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written by gkh4mt, August 24, 2009 17:30:19
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world
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written by jonestation, August 24, 2009 17:33:31
sounds like a loan policy from along-bukit-beruntoooong! smilies/grin.gif
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written by malsia1206, August 24, 2009 17:45:40
Is this not what they would say its Islamic banking or financing under Syriah principles? Whereby they do not charge on 'interest' which is prohibited under the concept. But they are entitled to the 'profits' in lieu of 'interest' instead. In any case, what difference does it make when it's still all about Ringgit and sen at the end of the day? And we all know who makes all the profit, ringgit and sen in the lending transaction. Borrower, 'caveat emptor'?
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written by malgal, August 24, 2009 17:57:37
the disguises for help and assistance, the so called care of the institutions are all too clear.
the poor kena hantam as usual, while the rich ... we know how they operate.
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written by hellosunshine, August 24, 2009 17:58:42
Sigh! As with pseudo-Malays or Melayu palsu, we now have pseudo-Islamic bank or Islam palsu. Tok Guru was right when he described the umnoputras as Muslim palsu too.
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written by mirrorman, August 24, 2009 18:05:43
no wonder bank Islam are doing so well, just twist the words (interest) into another form,people should considering invest their money into them.ALONG.without the terms (interest).
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written by wongnoball, August 24, 2009 18:07:53
Amazing.so what is the point of Islam here there 24/7 RTM, media, millions of Surau and mosque.For 52 years we have seen the unfairness in the islam practiced by regim kejam ganas bunuh UMNO malays. Malaysia must forget about the idealistic Democratic Change Make no mistake we are battling UMNO.Lets hope in 18 months the most severre depression HITS Malaysia and we can buy properties for $10,000 in Bangsar.at the rate Malaysia is Printing Money maybe it will be $10 Trillion ringgit ala Zimbabwe.We go for the Kill and we want these Bastard Hanged and Rot in Jail.MAC,PDRM, NRD, Judiciary,EC, UMNO-BN.its pointless being nice to you guys anymore. I mean it Sincerely.Pointless to be Nice to EVIL.their(evil) return is Death and suffering to you.a mind set thing!Get ready for Battle. wear Black fly a Black Flag all over Malaysia.and do your little evil deeds on UMNO infrastructure. terror back and send a clear message back!glove, bottle , lighter rubberband accelerant face make up.the rest make it Historic!
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written by lynn, August 24, 2009 18:08:03
We believe you, RPK.
Rakyat of bodohland has been screwed for decades. Half are still in La La Land.
I suspect some actually enjoyed being screwed. Tell them how the govt screwed them and
they give you an incredulous (dirty) look.
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written by Xerxes, August 24, 2009 18:15:46
Sounds like institutionalised Ah Long business.

With such tactics how did they lose the RM780m as reported in the press a few years ago? Also Ah Long skimming from the top?
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written by parsona, August 24, 2009 18:24:07
Islam says no interest can be charged, because they dont want the rich to get richer. Islamic banks just go about this by manipulating and spinning financial concepts like how lawyers play with law. There is nothing different between charging interest and a Sales & Purchase agreement, its just how its worded or how its played. I seriously wonder how do Muslims accept this... they reword the methods to bypass restrictions. How is this anything other than cheating? Cheating your god? Another example of how hypocritical religion is.

As for the banks... we all know they screw the poor everyday, every minute. Thats just how the world works. Are they wrong to try to make a profit? Its never as simple as black and white, but you agreed to deal, you have to deal with the consequences of breaking the deal. I guess RPK's point is to show we shouldn't expect those with the name 'Islamic' to be any different from those without. They all will equally screw us at every single opportunity.
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written by fan73, August 24, 2009 18:29:00
Bank Islam... ciss....

the only Bank in my experience to send lawyer's Re-poses warning letter
(charged me for RM20) for delay payment for 1 month!.

takde hati perut punya bank!


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written by mikewang, August 24, 2009 18:31:29
Dear YM Pete,

Basically, for the stated monthly repayments over a 15 year period, you were actually paying 12.34% interest rate (monthly rests basis) on your RM1.5million loan.
In the '80s, that kind of interest wasn't unreasonable as banks/finance companies were fighting with deposit taking cooperatives for deposits.
FD rates of 10~12% were the norm then.

Assuming that you have been faithful in your monthly payment, RM18333x7yearx12months = RM1,539,972. Yes, in the 7 years you have paid up more than RM1.5 million, however, you still owed them RM1,114,923 if you consider the 12.34% interest they had inconspicuously factored in.
So if Bank Islam charges you RM1.8 million, it is chicanery of the lowest order.

Conventional banking showing interests may seem to be inhuman but actually it is mathematically very easy to handle. Otherwise, borrower loses the sense that time one holds on to a loan is money.
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written by eeyaw, August 24, 2009 18:45:40
They should change the Bank name to "Bank Rompakan" or Ali Baba Bank or in English "Day light Robbery Bank"! but but for goodnest sake its a Government Institution.
This thing only happens in Malaysia! Malaysia Bolih!

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written by ArsenalFC, August 24, 2009 18:47:06
Dear YM RPK,

Why didn't you just let the so-called "Islamic Sales & Agreement" loan default?

Instead of just losing two shop-houses in Kuala Terengganu and the third was a three-storey bungalow in Bangsar, you lost another 45 pieces of land by block sale. This is what I don't understand.

Can you please enlighten us on this matter?

Cheers.

Arsenal FC forever!!!
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written by hiiijack, August 24, 2009 18:47:27
I think 'along' also better than them, pencuri & penipu besar.They make full use of 'ISLAM' as marketing stun.....
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written by johntyc, August 24, 2009 18:48:12
It may be legal. It may be halal. But, where is the compassion?
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written by ArsenalFC, August 24, 2009 18:54:19
Dear YM RPK,

Anything less than using Gold Dinar and Silver Dirham standard as the base currency, to me, it is not Islamic finance. Islamic currency, is minted and used from the time of standardisation of Gold Dinar & Silver Dirham during the reign of Caliph Umar Ibn al-Khattab through the long history of Islamic empire, until the fall of the last Caliph in Turkey.

Claiming to be Islamic, whilst on the contrary, the base currency is not, is a mere deception.

More information can be obtained from:
http://www.dinarkel.com
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written by bexe, August 24, 2009 18:58:43
It would be interesting to see how these transactions are booked in the bank's books?
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written by EricPayne, August 24, 2009 19:10:42
I had a very bad experience with this pseudo Islamic Bank once. Mine is their credit card. The way they asked their payment back (thinking about it make me want to puke)I was really disgusted - they insult rather then ask. I went to their office in KL and politely cut the card into half.

Thinking about it I had better engagement with 'kafir' banks like HSBC and Citibank. Alliance Bank is in the same league as bank Islam in the way they treat you.
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written by Ghostbuster, August 24, 2009 19:24:19
What about all this Islamic Banking hub that our BN is trying to setup? Are they going to adopt something similar to Bank Islam way of borrowing money?

Sounds like the bank has hands in everything but not fingerprint! Is this deal legal? World practice?
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written by Vic, August 24, 2009 19:42:24
Is there really such thing as Islamic Banking? I understand that when you purchase a property the interest rate is 3-5%. Pete is paying 100% interest. Islamic banking claim that they cannot charge interest but looking at the mechanic here, sound like they charge more than the loanshark So can they really charge interest??? smilies/wink.gif
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written by BobSam, August 24, 2009 19:51:58
Pete
The bank did not try to take u for a ride BUT they did hoodwink you a bit. U have to understand how modern banking works. It is a question of matching your cash inflows with your cash outflows and matching the tenors of your assets/liabilities. The bank has a FIDUCIARY duty to its depositors. (I mean this is the Pre-Mahathir mentality, Malaysia-First, love of country people).

When u take a loan, say for ten years at an agreed interest rate, say 9% p.a. in 98. Now the prevailing deposit interest rates was at 4% p.a.

The bank will expect your cash flow (ur mthly installments), say RM18,333 per month.
So the bank would have taken someone's deposit (equal 2 ur loan), and agreed to pay them (lets say) RM15K, so that they take a gross profit of RM3,333 every pmt. (My figures are not accurate, just examples).

Now the bank has lent u RM1.5million and taken a deposit from someone for RM1.5million for same tenor. Hence balanced their asset & liabilities.
(The dox states that they sold an asset for RM1.5million)
There will be some dox somewhere which says they received an investment of RM1.5million for 10 years with the probable rate of return of x% or RM15K p.m.

Now this is understood to be unchanged for a period of 10 years.

But halfway thru, say after 5 years, you decide to prepay as you did. The bank has now to find another borrower who will borrow RM1.5million for 5 years. But unfortunately they will not be able to charge the same interest rate or margin as the rates have improved (due to economic recovery, etc) and the loan rate is now at 5% and the deposit rates are now at 2.5%. In a conventional loan, there is a penalty that you will incur for early repayment.

In Islamic transactions, you cannot charge this penalty. So in lieu, they ask for full profit as they may have reflected the profit upfront in their books OR if their accounting policy is transparent, they will have reflected it on an ongoing basis. The more "modern" or transparent bank, will give you a rebate after taking their "break-costs".

But u have thrown a spanner into the works by messing up their beautiful profit story. Bonuses have already been paid based on the profit at the inception of the loan. Stupid management (otak udang) (Ouch! there goes any chance of me working in a bank again, I guess I m the otak udang)...

So now, it hits the fan. The Bank officer who wrote your loan (if he/she did not cover his/her rear, can loose his/her job). But basically this is what happened in ur case.

So if my MB being a good moslem, wanted to use Islamic finance to do his Guthrie transaction. And he later prepaid the transaction, he would have caused a "profit" shortfall. There is a lawyer near Wisma Denmark who specializes in goin after Islamic transactions, Affin Bank was his favorite target. I recall he had 5 or 6 cases that he was handling in 2005/06. He would be able to help you. My memory fails me, I cannot recall his name. Tall thin chap wears glasses.

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written by bknight, August 24, 2009 19:54:44
the concept of islamic banking is good, but the problem is with the ppl who exercise it. it is a none issue but was taken advantage to make it an issue.
tell me who in malaysia do not take loans from the bank..even to buy a bloody kancil!!

we have always been short changed all along..
is not interest..is a partnership..remember ??
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written by bknight, August 24, 2009 19:57:18
ArsenalFC
is omar ibn al khattab..and yes you are right, that is why i am saying is not the principle..is the people who abuse it.
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written by pakasia, August 24, 2009 20:02:11
Bank = Ah Long with legitimate license to do business in the open public.

Call it Bank of Heaven, Divine or the Holy God, they are all ah long with license.

Read web of debt (http://www.webofdebt.com/)

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written by bknight, August 24, 2009 20:03:17
actually u are right too,
Umar or Omar , it was defined for the same person
my appologies
smilies/smiley.gif
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written by miwaki, August 24, 2009 20:20:26
Though absurd but our Ah Long can beat them flat.
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written by foresight, August 24, 2009 20:39:37
If they are in partnership, surely they should also equally take the loss, not just the profit. The agreement is just one-sided to the advantage of the 'bank'. Just don't make any business sense. Maybe they are just plain greedy.
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written by sampalee, August 24, 2009 20:42:57
Businesses are set up to make money.What is deplorable here is that unethical ways to squueze profit is committed in the name of Islam.Like every law of nature,you do not fight them.The retribution that await the muslims of this nation is a matter of time.
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written by benyap, August 24, 2009 21:00:40
sorry pete im not with you on this one.

Im quite sure an educated man of your stature would have understood the agreements when you signed them. Dealing with the banks is akin to signing withe the devil.

A deal is a deal. If every1 were able to change the clauses in their deals halfway of any loan, partnership,etc, then whats the point of signing the deal in the first place.

You messed up. You didnt expect the economy to react such a way, so what? Take it like a man.

Honoring your promises is what it means to be a man. You can say they screwed you, they over charged you whatever.

Maybe you should have just sold those property instead of doing the "partnership" Or is it because you were unable to sell them and hence you had no choice but to go into the partnership?
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written by dashuwang, August 24, 2009 21:04:38
I totally agree with RPK, my business burst due to borrowing from Bank Islam. This Bank not Islamic at all. I have similar argument as RPK that the shit bank officer never compromised stick to their Along policies. Dammed I'm screwed.
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written by choong, August 24, 2009 21:23:00
RPK,

A high court judge earlier last year ruled that this sort of transactions are a scam. It was overruled by the court of appeal of course, in order to protect the banks and as a result, many people are now trapped.

A lot property owners who used Islamic banking ala "Malaysia Boleh" has been practising Bai Inah / Bai Bithaman Ajil concept which are not acceptable in the Middle-East.

So I can certainly understand what you are talking about.
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written by Badaksumbu, August 24, 2009 21:29:06
I heard this story elsewhere too. I think they used the name Islamic while ther rest far from from Islamic--we need other Islamic experts to challange them--they are far too complicent, they think what they do were all Islamic
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written by temenggong, August 24, 2009 22:21:26
There you are!

Welcome to islamic banking, Ah Longs with a jubba and mask!

You should have seen the terms of their 'loan agreements'. It's a rip off!

All malays should keep away from this 'bank'.
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written by gycgocnt, August 24, 2009 22:24:19
This is the true Islam of Malaysia:

Bomoh use Islam to cheat the Virgin Night,
Politician use Islam to Fishing Vote,
And Bank use Islam to make themselve Pirates of CarriBN....

And... PM use Islam to Swear! I Swear, I don't know Altantuya!!!

What a funny "Function" of Islam in Malaysia!
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written by hamid, August 24, 2009 22:30:42
I am having a same experience with Alliance Bank, I took Rm180,000 loan for 30years which I pay RM1,422 a month, that would be RM1,422 x 12 x 30 = RM 511,920 in total. I am paying about x 2.844 more then what I borrow. This bank for 1st year charged me low rate of interest but now charging me about 9%. Little advise to others, pls watch out from which bank you are dealing with.
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written by quietguy, August 24, 2009 22:43:01
In the third paragraph RPK mentioned the word 'partnership'. That is actually the key concept in a true Islamic financing system. The lender and the borrower should share the risks, instead of only the borrower carrying the risk. In RPK's scenario, when it was clear that he couldn't afford to continue the payment, he should have been allowed to terminate the agreement after making an equitable arrangement with the bank. One possible solution was for him to return the properties to the bank and clean his hands of all commitment with regard to the loan. In essence, the bank would get the properties worth RM800k instead of the promised RM1.8mil (a paper loss of RM1mil), and RPK would have not get anything in return for the RM1.5mil he already paid. It's a lose-lose situation, but probably fair, all things considered. This was what actually should have happened if the system was really Islamic.

However, I think most of us realise that the so-called Islamic financing implemented in Malaysia is only Islamic in name and on paper, but not Islamic in spirit. This is the reason that even though I'm a Muslim, I still opt for conventional system for my home loan.
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written by sydput, August 24, 2009 22:48:28
which umno finance minister championed islamic banking under his watch? anwar ibrahim
I read in the papers one guy who was sued by bank islam for double the price of his house when he wants to defaulted his repayment within months of taking the "loan". The bank sold the house and sued him for the remainder in court. The judge threw out the case saying the interest rate is excessive and asked the borrower to pay only the interest on the loan for the period.
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written by ganbing, August 24, 2009 22:52:56
Pete, why did you have to take a loan from Bank Islam despite their onerous profit (not interest)? Why didn't you shop around for the best deal? As you have full collateral, any bank would be willing to lend you the money.

Instead of early settlement on Bank Islam's terms, why didn't you sell off some of your land to keep up the RM18K monthly payment? In a couple of years the economy would have improved and your property value would have risen.
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written by Umm Adzka, August 24, 2009 23:01:05
I believe there was something wrong with the way the principle has been applied by the bank, not with the principle itself. You can easily search for bai bithaman ajil in any of the report (MLJ or CLJ) and you'll find abundant of such cases - where the court held that these poor people must pay in full the total agreed price (which usually 3 times if not 4 times) the original amount of property for defaulting a payment say after a year or two.oh believe me, I hated Islamic banking in Malaysia when I was doing my law degree due for this reason. but the flaw is not in the principle, is not in Islamic banking but in the way how Islamic banks would like to maximise its profit (to the detriments of its clients and people's perception of Islam)! what a shame! I am now working with Islamic bank in a middle east country and we do recalculate the price upon early settlement. Shame on you!!! you call yourself as an institution applying Islamic principles but conveniently ignore the very fundamental principle of Islamic law that prohibit you from being unjust to others! (or using the religion as a medium to do so!)



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written by Umm Adzka, August 24, 2009 23:05:45
to Ganbing:

Pete, why did you have to take a loan from Bank Islam despite their onerous profit (not interest)? Why didn't you shop around for the best deal? As you have full collateral, any bank would be willing to lend you the money.

Instead of early settlement on Bank Islam's terms, why didn't you sell off some of your land to keep up the RM18K monthly payment? In a couple of years the economy would have improved and your property value would have risen.


I can't speak on behalf of RPK but I took Islamic finance from Maybank too (despite the high profit rate) because I am a muslim and I do not want to have anything to do with Riba
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written by ssathia, August 24, 2009 23:12:53
If it is a conventional loan based on monthly interest charges, the monthly repayment of RM18,333 for a loan of RM1.5 million over 15 years would mean an interest rate of about 12.5% per annum is chargeable.
If you have paid the monthly instalment of RM18,333 including interest charges for 7 years, that will leave a balance of unpaid principal at RM1.1 million that will form the redemption sum assuming there are no other charges.
At that time, if instead the Bank asks for RM1.8 Million as redemption sum, there is an unaccounted for RM700,000 that the bank is demanding. Any unjustified demand for money from any Bank can be reported to BNM.
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written by fairnessforall, August 24, 2009 23:14:05
This so called islamic banking thing is just another con job. Its a way for banks to use our money to make money and not pay us a cent. Recently I went to public bank to open 2 savings account as the money was for different purposes, I wanted a separate account. The customer personnel tells me that I cant open 2 saving unless I open 1 al wadiah which is the so called islamic savings account. I said fine so problem. What I did not realise was that Public bank does not pay any interest on islamic savings up to RM3,000. So if you have RM3,000 savings in an alwadiah account, you get zero earnings while the bank uses your money to lend to someone else and charge them interest or whatever you want to call it. If you have above RM3,000, you get a miserable 0.01%. I intend to take my money out from there and put it in another bank under a normal savings account as this islamic banking is just crap.
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written by temanmu, August 24, 2009 23:14:08
UMNO brand of Islam ... Islam Mata Duitan! ... can bribe their way into Heaven's Gates!

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written by BobSam, August 24, 2009 23:14:25
Hamid
The loan you took was clearly advertised as low interest for a period of 12 to 36 months, and then the interest rate rises.
How long ago did you take this loan? Look up ur agreement. There is a period which is stated in there that you cannot "change" the loan, usually 4 to 5 years. After that you can refinance it. Shop around, or visit a Mortgage Broker who can shop around for you and get you the best deal possible. They do not charge you any fees. They get paid by the bank, they usually are agents for a few banks at least five banks that are mortgage specific banks.
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written by storm62, August 24, 2009 23:22:19
What if i bank-in some money for charity thru Islamic banking from my profits from my pub and bah kut teh business? what if it's a lottery winning money?

will they accept it or do i have to send my money to Mecca to be halal first?

i guess many will grab and count the money first than to ask me where's the source of my money comes from...maybe it have some pig stain or beer stain, who cares as long as it's money.
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written by johnT, August 24, 2009 23:26:37
Than Bank Islam should change it name to Bank Tak Islam, because riba is haram according to Islam no matter how they squezee and turn. By putting their name Bank Islam is insulting Islam it self cause riba is haram.

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written by southallman, August 24, 2009 23:37:26
Dear RPK,

Now I understand how Malaysian banking works - thanks for the valuable lesson. I wish you had written this article 15 years ago and I had read it then and knew what I know now. The exact happened to me. I bought a property (not in the millions) but in the hundred thousands. I too thought I was taking a loan for 15 years. I dutifully on a monthly basis paid double the so called 'mortgage' payments. 7 years into the 'so called loan' I wanted to settle the remainder - guess what - I had to pay the interest on the loan for the full 15 years even though I was only using thier money for 7 years.

In short I borrowed X, over 15 years I would have to pay Y , making a total of Z. What happens is a month after borrowing X , you win the jackpot in Las Vegas casino, you have money coming out of your pockets - you go to the bank, hi, I borrowed X and have used your money for a month, I want to repay you back - now here is X and here is X1 (interest) on the amount on usage of your money for a month.

Now what happens is in Bolehland is that the Bank says NO - you must pay us Y and we want the total Z even though I am paying the money borrowed 14 years and 11 months earlier.

So be warned - if you are going to hit the Jackpot - remember it is the Banks's who were there 1st before you, i.e. hit the Jackpot.


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written by gundohing, August 25, 2009 00:14:09
Call it what you like.. it is all a legal scam to use the name "Islam" to dupe the Muslims into believing that taking loans from Bank Islam is the Islamic thing to do.

Same with Takaful Insurance. Excess risks capacity still goes back to conventional reinsurers local or foreign alike..
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written by SiHangChai, August 25, 2009 00:19:27
This is what we called Islamic Loan financing. Nothing new to me or to banks. This is how it works. Anyway, it seems to be cheap upfront, but Islamic loan is actually more expensive and more confusing and less transparent than convention loan. Any bankers in loan will tell you this. There are a lot of untold stories on how Islamic investment is done in banks, but most of the monies are gambled in the stock market, and into bluechip counter especially in some companies that indirectly may have interest in gambling and alcohol industries. Anyway, playing/trading stock market is a form of gambling; therefore it also makes it as unhalal. The only halal form is invest into the company and make money from it but not via playing stock market.
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written by hamid, August 25, 2009 00:19:39
Dear BobSam, thanks for your advise. FYI i loan this house almost 5 years. I have friend recommend a Broker which I will be charged. Anyway I haven't decide yet. I have no clue about this Mortgage Broker, any idea? You can mail me if has any info at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Thanks
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written by Raja Petra, August 25, 2009 00:26:48
Dear BurnTan and benyap, I suppose you are right. I did sign a S&P to buy back my own properties at 120% the value. And there is no rebate for early settlement in the agreement I signed. As you both said, an agreement is an agreement. I suppose that is why the Chinese and Indians got no choice but to remain second-class citizens. That was the agreement to obtain Merdeka. And can we fault Umno for constantly reminding us?
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written by MasterYoda, August 25, 2009 01:11:30
Raja Petra,

In Islamic banking, there is no interest... when Bank Islam wanted to introduce the Islamic system of banking in Malaysia, they did not follow the true islamic teaching about money. which is No interest, only profits.

They merely changed the terms and renamed interest as profit. but the underlining system was and is still very secular (based on VITUAL ECONOMY, meaning i can create RM10 value by lending / selling RM1)

thats why all the other banks saw no difference and happily accepted the Malaysia Islamic banking system...

the only bank I know that does not practise this stupid method is AL-RAJHI BANK. I salute them because they use REAL ECOMONY system and do NOT even lend out customers deposits. Neither do they pay interest on customers deposits. AL-RAJHI condisiders itself a 'keep-safe' for customers. they dont even have credit cards only charge cards...

This bank can never close down during any future black mondays and even if all thier customers withdraw thier monies.. simply because AL-RAJHI actually buys a product from the wholesaler and sells to a retailer for profit. then they channel the profit to you (borrower). They have sound and logical principles.

So they get back they capital immediately and cannot close down... unless they have a very bad risk manager smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Fairminded, August 25, 2009 08:32:53
Islamic banks are no different from non Islamic banks. However, atleast the non Islamic banks are open about making money whereas the Islamic banks make money by pretending to be religious. Why not cut out the pretentions and do not insult Islam by calling them Islamic banks?
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written by BurnTan, August 25, 2009 12:58:12
Dear BurnTan and benyap, I suppose you are right. I did sign a S&P to buy back my own properties at 120% the value. And there is no rebate for early settlement in the agreement I signed. As you both said, an agreement is an agreement. I suppose that is why the Chinese and Indians got no choice but to remain second-class citizens. That was the agreement to obtain Merdeka. And can we fault Umno for constantly reminding us?


Dear YM Pete,
That is a different case, I have no say whatsoever over the so call "Merdeka Agreement" back then and I did NOT sign any agreement to agree with it.

BTW, I am not saying that once we sign an agreement then we should honor it no matter how the situation changed and how unfair the agreement was. Just that in your case with Bank Islam, there is nothing unfair about it. Imagine if the scenerio is the other way round, you use the 1.5m to invest in your project and happily receive 100k profit per month (which is enough to pay the "loan" and some profit), but Bank Islam ask you to return the 1.5m immediately and offer you some rebate on "interest", would you consider?
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written by pelukis, August 25, 2009 13:59:00
Bank Islam actually is a great hypocrisy product of ‘Malays’ banking and financing scholars plus the “Haramjadah Ulama” who are successfully manipulated the “Riba Hukum” into a Halal product...Bastard Malay (Umno) thought God have the same IQ like them.
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written by Moonlight, August 25, 2009 14:14:00
Bank Islam is hiding behind the so call Islamic name to become a legal ‘Ah Long’.
Non Islamic at all, only make people suffer.
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written by democraticpatriot, August 25, 2009 16:36:04
Never had doubt with our CM...if he openly admits and said he will settle his problem, this man is worth trusting. As he is formerly a big businessman, this kind of problem is inadvertent. It is always those who tries to hide and dodge their business activities and their past which we have to be weary and cautious about to run our State and country...we already have way too many of these kind of people running our country and life!!!

Fellow Malaysians, let's continue our strive for transparency and good leadership in our State and country...too much time had been lost and we have been too complacent in our rights as Malaysians!
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written by jaz, August 26, 2009 15:26:07
If I remember Korek-ly, Muslims are not suppose to be involved with any form of gambling, and investments was also perceived as gambling. Why would they have banks?

p/s; Forgive me if I'm wrong. Laws are manipulated beyond recognition. I don't know what it Korek and what is in-korek anymore.
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