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Sunday, 05 July 2009 15:45

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Are you really a good person who has earned the right to preach or are you actually a hypocrite who is not really good but is just a coward who does not dare become a bad person like how you would rather be if given that opportunity?

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

They say there are two types of people. There are leaders and there are followers. 1% of the people are leaders while the majority are followers.

Within these two categories are further sub-categories. There are good people and there are bad people.

Within the good people category, they can again be subdivided into two more categories. There are people who are good by nature and there are people who are good because they are scared of being bad. If they were not scared of being bad then they would certainly not be good because being bad is more fun than being good.

And within the bad people category there are people who are bad because they are bad by nature while others are bad because they feel they can get away with being bad without getting caught or that later they can always repent and become good whereby they would be forgiven for all the bad they have done.

And this is why people need religion. Religion stops you from being bad and forces you to be good. Without religion there would be no stick and carrot. You get the stick when you are bad and you get the carrot when you are good. It is a form of punishment and reward system. You get punished when you do bad and you get rewarded when you do good.

In short, religion works on the concept of the bribery system. You are bribed through the punishment and reward system when you do bad and good respectively. And since most people are susceptible to bribes they would conduct themselves accordingly depending on whether they wish to be rewarded or whether they do not fear the punishment and do not care much for the rewards.

Over thousands of years mankind has had to conduct itself based on what religion tells them they should do. Religion has been the guideline for our conduct long before the invention of the police force and the legal system comprising of laws and courts.

The history of religion, however, is a history of violence, persecution, cruelty and brutality. In the name of religion mankind has been subjected to much suffering.

The question is who invented religion? And is religion something that God sent us or something that man created to conveniently oppress and suppress fellow man?

I do not wish to engage in a debate as to the existence of God or otherwise. There are some who believe that there is a God (or Gods). Others believe in the existence of a higher power although they are not quite sure what it is and whether God is the correct word to use for this higher power. Then there are others who believe that man is the product of nature and not of a higher being named God or whatever.

I leave it to you to decide how you came to be.

All religions have what we could call holy books. The ‘main three’, also called the Abrahamic religions, have the Old and New Testaments and the Quran. A study of all three holy books would reveal that there are a lot of similarities and overlapping doctrines. You would not be mistaken if you were to think that the three Abrahamic faiths are actually one faith divided into three sects. Of course, these three ‘sects’ are further divided into many sub-sects who are at most times in conflict with one another.

Man has a natural instinct to be bad. But they are forbidden from being bad basically because the religion they believe in forbids it. If the religion they believe in were silent on the issue then most would choose to be bad rather than good. But they have no choice but to be good because they fear that if they are bad they would receive punishment and not receive the rewards promised to good people.

You could say that most people are not good by nature but are reluctantly good. It is not that there are no good people who are good by nature. There are, although they would be in the minority. And you will find that most of the people who are good by nature do not have any religion. Some do not even believe in God. They are good just because they are, by nature, good and for no other reason -- in particular not because they believe in the system of rewards and punishment that religions propagate.

Has religion succeeded in its job of turning us into good people? Or has it instead turned us into hypocrites? How many of us are good because it is in our heart and how many are good because we have no choice but to be good? If religion were silent on what constitutes good and bad and if there are no rewards and punishment for being either what kind of person would we become?

That is something to ponder upon this Sunday. And before you adopt that holier than thou attitude and start moralising, ask yourself: are you really a good person who has earned the right to preach or are you actually a hypocrite who is not really good but is just a coward who does not dare become a bad person like how you would rather be if given that opportunity?

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written by Watchdog, July 05, 2009 15:56:16
Betul. Betul also that some will argue the subtle to significant contradictions.
Whatever your faith, God looks at your heart - not your works or words. From here we can meet in a commonality
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written by Aramsawafer, July 05, 2009 16:07:11
A friend of mine once told me that human being is just another being and above all an animal as well. Like any other animals, the human kind live and die as well and return to where they originated, the earth and the dust and whatever is on this surface of the earth. But because human being are intelligence animal and on top of the heirarchy of the animal kingdom, when they die, they must die with dignity and peace. Religion gives them that dignity. Otherwise it is nothing, they just die and finish,

So basing on that concept, some politicians will say afterall we are just like any other animal. We will be nothing when we die. Therefore, it is okay to be corrupt and enjoy their live when they are alive, so they say.

However, because they are inteligent, they also have conscience spiking then all the time. So, they become not sure whether they are just another animal or just a specially created being. And since there are religions to lead one to God or gods, they say hack-la, just tag along in case.

So, on one hand they will say being bad and corrupt is okay because afterall they are just but one of the animals. And on the other hand, they say, maybe there is God or gods, so they also have religion, just in case.
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written by Kathy, July 05, 2009 16:25:51
As someone who has been struggling to come to terms with religion I tend to view it as an insurance policy. Buy insurance, do not flout the conditions and you are covered; adopt a religion, abide by its teachings and you are assured a place in heaven. Therefore religion does not necessarily make a person good. I know people who have no religion or are not religious who are genuinely good, kind, generous and compassionate. By the same token I know people who purport to have a religion who are just the opposite. Goodness must come from the heart.
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written by Oscar Winner, July 05, 2009 16:35:11
Who invented religion? Someone pls answer this interesting question. If it remains unanswered, many tend to begin to wonder. Many will be confused. Many are already confused and will remain so. Some people do bad to be good, like BN/UMNO bigots. They believe the are carrying out orders from above. They play god to protect god. They even think they are absolutely certain that we will go to heaven if we give them our vote, doesn't matter if they are sinners. What a bunch of idiots who think they can fool me
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written by lamepug, July 05, 2009 16:37:51
all i know..
when i came to this world...
i'm the one that crying and others around me laughing...
and...
when i leave this world...
i want to be the one that laughing and others around me crying...
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written by MMhunter, July 05, 2009 16:38:09
The purpose of all religion apart from proper living is to guide humanity to realise ones true self.only then all doubt comes to an end.
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written by lampard, July 05, 2009 16:40:15
You know I am BAD, I am Bad, you know it... who's bad! Michael Jackson. It is indeed easier to be bad than good!

Just like some would accede "life's short" to satisfy his temporary comfort when life is indeed a long journey! Now, our PM understands it better than anyone! I overheard he told Razak, life's short lets be bad! Now, his life is long filled with asperities!
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written by DamnPekcek, July 05, 2009 16:41:18
Every human interprete the teaching differently. But something which i could confirm, UMNO just some bunch of hypocrite (there's some exceptional case, of course, just handful), oppurtunist, not sincere in serving people, just interested to make their own pocket fat.

Tok Guru is the example they should follow!
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written by eeyaw, July 05, 2009 16:41:32
The only God known to Umno is their 'Money God' & when they steal, cheat & corrupt its ok to their God. Its even ok when they snuff out somebody life in the name of going after their ill gotten gains & getting greedy. They even think that in their afterlife they will get 7 virgins if they kill in the name of God.
It is their 'Money God' that will eventually destroy them & its beginning to show. No question about it.
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written by vineeth menon, July 05, 2009 16:52:28
Watch for fun .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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written by taxi90, July 05, 2009 17:01:45
You ever wondered which god in his/her/its right mind would create humans and put them all together on this planet called earth?

You ever wondered if the said god is good/bad/neutral/couldn't care less?

You ever wondered if heaven and hell really existed, and if hell is 10,000 times larger than heaven, and why it all had to start off in this garden of Eden?

You ever wondered that perhaps there is no god but there is a big Devil instead?
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written by areenna, July 05, 2009 17:24:22
"And you will find that most of the people who are good by nature do not have any religion"

Are sure about that? Are the "sample" large enough to make the conclusion? Majority of people claim them have religion but actually not they are not, how you categorize them?

Since the pool of so call religion people are much larger, the numbers of bad people among them higher. Christions and Muslim are the largest population in the whole world. Surely the number of bad people among Christian and Muslim are larger. And just because the number of bad Jews are less than bad Christian and Muslim doesn't make "you will find most of the people who are good by nature are Jews".



BTW, how the good by nature people know they are their something good and not something bad. How they define "good"? I thought religion provides the basis of what good and what bad. Even the "morale" basis we used today originated from "religion basis".

One of my (not so close) friend sleep with hundreds of women he meet, many of them are somone's wife. He said he is doing something good (his morale) because he make someone's wife feel so good and he's doing them lot of favour because satifisying them is not some easy task. He think he make the women life happier. Do to others (the women) like you want them to do to you, he says. This is someone that use logic blindly and doen't have religion to guide him. He define his own "good". I wonder how many marriage he wrecks and many pregnat teenager he might leave behind and how many of the babies left in drains are his.
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written by densemy, July 05, 2009 17:26:49
I think you got it wrong this time

Good people will be good regardless of religion. They are good cos they are innately good and were brought up to be good. All religion does is flavour the type of good they practice.

A few 'goodish' people are nearly good because they are terrified of the future that religion offers them if they fail to be good. Religion rarely inspires people to be good

Bad people will be bad largely due to the way they were brought up and often despite religion. Its the bad people who need religion to hide their badness and to use religion so that they can manipulate the good people
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written by Cobweb76, July 05, 2009 17:34:55
I do not want to think myself as a bad person although I know I have done some bad deeds in my life. Some of which I hide (because of the shame os it) but most I would admit to and try and seek forgivess (to the person I did wrong to). It is called having a guilty conscious. Does that mean I am a good person and I do good because I'm afraid of God and going to Hell?

No I do not want to go to Hell but I do not think I will be spared of Hell because I am very sure no matter how careful I am in being good, I must have done things that are bad due to my ignorance on certain issues. I try my best to educate myself by reading books and the news but they do not always tell you the right things. You need to be able to read between the lines and decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes even experts can get things wrong and I am no expert on anything at all. So really in order to be good that you can do nothing wrong is really to have a Phd in everything? I'm not too sure about that either.

I do worry about it sometimes and think about what lies ahead for me after death but I do not want that to rule my life that I forget the living. So now I have come to a conclusion that if there is one thing I can believe about God, is that He is Fair. Now when I do something good, I do not over analyse the situation. I do it because it is the right thing for me to do and regardless of other people's belief, I will help them the same I would a person from the same faith as me. I will defend myself and my loved ones from harm but as far as harming others are concerned, there are no basis to do so unless you are physically attacked at the time. Would I want to kill someone who has harmed my loved ones? Of course I would but that's when you hope that there will be an intervention, human or devine, to help you deal with such pain and rage. That's when all the good that I've done and all the love I hope have left in my heart would give me the strength that I need to carry on living and look after the people that I love.

The sayings 'To err is human, to forgive is devine', 'Cleanliness is close to Godliness' etc shows just how easy it is to be tempted but how hard it is to resist and make an effort. Am I a good person, no, I am a person trying to be good ultimately because it is the right thing to do and not just so I can be allowed to step into Heaven.
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written by Cobweb76, July 05, 2009 17:41:20
DIVINE not DEVINE... sorry
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written by Ulan Benson, July 05, 2009 17:44:02
There is nothing we can take away when we die. Afterall, everything return to dust when we go, the only thing we can take along is...our conscience. smilies/smiley.gif
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written by hellosunshine, July 05, 2009 17:50:56
RPK, well said. I'll drink to that. Hic! smilies/grin.gif
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written by K W Waran, July 05, 2009 18:05:52

Dearest YM RPK,

May You and Kak Marina be in the pink of health, wherever you are.

Thank you very much for your wake up call by means of Your Sunday Sermon. My humble take is that if one "LOVES' GOD and His creations (for the believers, of course) then, one does not need to fear him at all.

When one speaks the good, four people(a hypothetical figure) can hear. When one does good, lets say, 40 people can see. But to think good and conduct one's life according to that related preset principles, only that person and God knows(again if the believer believes that The Almighty actually exists). It all depends on that individual concerned. But to think good all the time is indeed the most difficult thing to maintain.

I am definitely not trying to start my own version on a sermon. Just that life is short and under the prevalent circumstances in our beloved nation, that life can become even shorter. Well, as long as life in still within me, (selagi nyawa terkandung dalam jasad) I hope to make at least three people smile and that does not cost me a single cent.

Take care, YM RPK, Kak Marina and all my Brothers and Sisters of the MT Community. May all of you have a blessed day and week ahead. I am only empowered to seek Divine Intervention to resolve the problems, this Nation of Ours is in, in the midst of our Greedy Glocal Leaders who are screwing us all and our nation, BIG TIME.

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written by Braino, July 05, 2009 18:15:44
Once I had a chat with a friend who had a good idea to settle this problem of trying to ascertain which is the "real" religion on earth. Instead of believers fighting and "sacrificing" their mortal lives for God...why not ask all the gods to gather and thrash it out themselves. The one that wins...will be God supreme for all on earth and nobody will argue again whose god is greater!.....great idea?
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written by K W Waran, July 05, 2009 18:16:06

Folks,

In my second last paragraph, I meant to say that I hope to make at least three people smile on a daily basis as long as I live and that's what I have been doing since I took a self imposed sabbatical leave from commenting. Cheers.

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written by parsona, July 05, 2009 18:45:48
I do not find that the major religions make 'goodness' the top priority of the religion. They are mainly more concerned with petty things like praying and forcing the followers to keep repeating their god is the only god. How does these things help society? It seems more like an ego trip to me, I mean how cool would it be to have millions of souls bowing before my might? If I were a god, or if I were to create a religion, I would make 'goodness' the ultimate priority. Praying and praising the gods name would be non-existent or relegated to the bottom of the to-do list. Preventing the followers from eating non-halal or non-kosher food would also be optional, recommended but not required. Just look at how this food thing creates disunity in Malaysia! Imagine if there were no requirements for Muslims to eat only halal food, everyone would be eating in the same restaurants happily, no one would be offended if the govt wants to shut down an illegal abbatoir, every race can mingle together while eating, no one would feel hesitant to come to a Chinese dinner etc. The act of eating together is an extremely effective method to foster ties, I'm sure everyone agrees with me on that.

If there is a god, and he truly wanted his creations to be 'good', he is definitely going about it the wrong way.
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written by *********, July 05, 2009 18:56:23
Unfortunateluy BN/Umno politicians think they can bribe their way to Heaven...More http://*********.********.com
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written by MalaysiaBaru, July 05, 2009 19:00:19
Example of a politician who is good by nature: Tok Guru Nik Aziz

Example of a politician who is not just bad but EVIL BY NATURE: Najis Rosak smilies/angry.gif
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written by joeawk, July 05, 2009 19:28:47
Holy book is not good if it is read upside down, just ask UMNO people.
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written by bakas, July 05, 2009 19:33:20
Why blame religion for all the misdeeds of man? Religion is there as a guide for you to become good, a way of life for you to follow. Men and women are created as a testament to the goodness of the creator, so if it is a manifestation of God's power, surely all of us have that goodness in our nature. But doing evil and good is a choice for everyone. Those who believe in doing good will not be swayed, whether there is a carrot or a stick waiting for them at the end. Those who believe that there is no use in doing good will resort to evil to fulfill the innermost desires that is within us.

So, frankly, being good and bad is a matter of choice, not by nature. I can choose to kill a person today and not fear of retribution, because I choose to believe it's not wrong for me to make that choice (in some cases, maybe 'I' would believe it's my God-given right to kill). Or I would choose to believe that destroying a creature such as me is just plain wrong, just like I think it is wrong for someone to suddenly come out of the bue and kill me.

Religions were 'created' by man. God, meanwhile, should not be equated to religion. Religion is just the way to reach God. Whether you like it or not, something or some being of the higher order is out there, and those who believe call that being God.
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written by Pakyeh, July 05, 2009 20:10:58
The Sufi goes beyond heaven and hell.He is obsessed with God.Heaven does not mean anything to him,neither does hell.Similarly the Yogis and Bhudda teaches to go beyond reincarnation to get nirwana, the union with God.This is the ultimate in religion. One would be given miracles when one have reached this stage.

http:warongpakyeh.********.com
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written by bexe, July 05, 2009 20:20:44
There is no need to love god
Learn, if you haven't, to love thy brother and thy neighbor. By doing that you love everyone including god.
Most people do it the other way around. They pray to god and say they love Him but they harm their neighbor. That's not loving god.
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written by tehtarik, July 05, 2009 20:27:18
dear rpk,

i just love this piece.i find this is the best.
thank you.
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written by tumbledore, July 05, 2009 20:56:34
RPK,

thanks for the article and I hope you'd never lose your patience
and keep on writing.

and to all those who're also gone on self-imposed exile;
come back and write comments again.
I'm quite tired of reading subclass comments in bad language
wthout humour.
let's try not to be animals!


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written by Panca Indera, July 05, 2009 21:26:02
Salam,
The sayings of Imam Ali no.206.

There are people who worship Allah to gain His Favors, this is the worship of traders; while there are some who worship Him to keep themselves free from His Wrath, this is the worship of slaves; a few who obey Him out' of their sense of gratitude and obligations, this is the worship of free and noble men.

That should sort out the boys from the men

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm smilies/cool.gif
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written by lskong, July 05, 2009 21:34:37
to those who claim that we need god/religion in order to know what is good, and what is bad, and in order to do good... then i say: we are worse than animals! because many animals know to care for their youngs, the sicks, and sometime even others young. many animals know to observe monogamy. many animals know to only take what you need and not to kill the forest to get to a tree, and they know this by nature. because each animal is the product of natural selection. we inherited traits & behaviours that made our species successful and survived for thousands of years. however, what worked for the past thousands of years do not guarantee the future survival of our species. if we don't know how to thrive without killing ourselves or our host while constantly evolving to improve our chance of survival in time of disaster, then we are worse than the H1N1-A virus!
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written by Loh, July 05, 2009 21:38:50
A religious person may be conditioned to be good, out of fear, of God or of after life. A non-religious person may be conditioned to be good, to be acceptable to the society, or to stay within the law. People are free to choose to be good, or bad. But if one would abide by the principle not to others what you do not want other to do to you, he will be a good person. He would be a better person if he would do to others as though he hoped others would do to him, as if he needed them.

Doing bad individually is not as important as when people decide to do bad collectively, to others who are different. There are too many examples at political party level, and when their members grouped together.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, July 05, 2009 21:51:08
If we humans, as we would like to claim, are indeed created in the image of the Almighty, then if we were to fall in front of a hungry crocodile, lion, or other carnivores, by our special rights and place with the Creator, we shouldn't or cannot be eaten; right?

Then would some religious teacher please preach that to the carnivores, because as far as they are concern, we are just another prey...another potential meal, and most certainly nothing special & great as we would like to believe; yah!
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written by Howie ng, July 05, 2009 21:54:46
After evolving from stone age to this modern age of information shouldn't we humankind consider ourselves spiritually mature enough to live in peace on this "One Earth". There is no need for religion if what it brings is war and hatred among us. Any God would want their children to love one another. I think more than praises and doing thing in His name. We don't have to love others in the name of God because we already inherited from Him. Make Him proud of us by abandoning all religions as a proof that we have grown up and we do not need religion to perform as children of God. What would be considered as spiritually immature is the promise of heaven to do the right thing.
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written by JaguhKampung, July 05, 2009 21:56:00
I believe there's good and bad in everyone. How good and how bad a person depends on which end of the spectrum the person is in. The position he/she is in is influenced by the environment, religion, customs, values, traditions and many other factors. The position may also change with time depending all the factors listed above and how these factors nudge a person's 'barometer' of good and bad measurement in the good and bad spectrum.

Am I preaching?.... smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Fat Zorro, July 05, 2009 22:07:26
Is there a god? I dont know but I feel that God is in us but I do not believe there is such thing as heaven or hell after we pass on. We suffer the consequences of our action. Heaven and hell is on earth itself. You pay in your lifetime for sins you committed against others.
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written by nanyangren, July 05, 2009 22:09:21
Unfortunately many use religion as an opiate. To justify their wrong actions, just like the stoning of Soraya to the surrender all to God and pray for 15 A's, then forgetting their primary responsibility of studying.

On teh other hand, religion gives one courage and strength to carry on seemingly imposisble stuff.

All hallmarks of use as an opiate. I personally do not see much use for religion beyond the use as an opiate.

Punishment, rewards, life there-after, etc, I do not see how any person of sound mind cannot figure it out himself and have to depend on holy books and words of interpretation of others. This opiate dependence on others is the root of all our problems today as we are all easily led astray.
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written by Fat Zorro, July 05, 2009 22:18:52
I cant speak for other religion but I personally think that the Sikh religion is man made. Sikhisim essentially teaches goodness and etc like what all other so called religion espouses. From being philosophical, someone tries to make it into a religion by imposing the 5ks and followers decide that the 5ks is the requirement for all those who professes to be sikh. I dont see the religious significance of continuing with the 5ks. I can only see historical and probably practicality reasons for the 5ks at the time it was decreed. Readers, do you know that parts of the Guru Granth Sahib, holy book of Sikhs was written by Muslim?
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written by teo siew chin, July 05, 2009 22:54:19
I call myself an honest hypocrite cos I can lie with sincerity. smilies/tongue.gif
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written by malgal, July 05, 2009 23:29:37
i kind of vacillate between good and bad, in my books that is. but i know that God is good, loves me unconditionally and i do not deserve his love - just glad that He does anyway. i have done many bad things that have must have made God sad.
maybe it is time to take stock of things, eh? and time is a precious commodity, i can't make time not run out! stay safe, keep writing, and may the grasslands in mongolia stay fresh and green for you and marina.
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written by SamBall, July 05, 2009 23:37:33
Today Sunday I did not go to church/mosque/temple. Apa macam?

Anyway, here is an idea la. Why not make a ruling that everyone must change their religion once a year or every 5 years and see what happens? Also can apply to race, language, customs, politics etc.. If like this, then in 20 or 30 years, can see a lot of difference. If not enough, then can go second round, etc.. until kingdom come. Any takers?
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written by cheekhiaw, July 05, 2009 23:46:03
So many people claiming to be good and speaking for the gods.

It just also happens that the loudest amongst these are also the 'least good' and 'least godly'..

xxx
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written by malaysian7, July 05, 2009 23:51:32
Dear Pete,

I have no idea on whether to agree to your view or not. However in my case, I would say I am grateful where we already have human's existence in the world for so many centuries and we glad to learn from the past mistakes of human.

I get to learn and see how people suffer from bad human. I learn and see it all.. I try to make sure I take all these as a lesson for me to not become a bad person (though if I am not good).

I hope people too will be the same.

However, there is no 100% in this world. If everything were to be perfect, then there is no good or bad people in this world anymore. Perhaps we do not need security, police in the world since there is no bad people and no crime. In return, it might affect job opportunities.

What comes around goes around. Just make sure we do the best while we still can.
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written by Milo, July 05, 2009 23:57:37
The monothistic religions basic belief is that humans are born with sin, and the way to cleanse them is through following anointed ones, which christians believe is the son of God or even God himself incarnated as Jesus and the Jews and Muslims believe are the prophets. In addition, the main purpose of God's creating you is to pray to him, love him and obey him without question. Doing good, while being encouraged, is secondary. They believe God have emotions like humans, i.e. anger, hate and love. Furthermore, if you sin, no matter how many times, God will forgive them, if you ask for forgiveness sincerely EACH TIME. Finally, if you don't believe in the right religion or sect of the religion, despite all of them believe in the one and only true God, heaven will not open its door to you, and not only that, hell will be your punishment FOREVER.

The buddhist's basic teaching is that the nature of all beings in the world systems of the universes or even multiverses are PURE; it is defilements (e.g. greed, anger, ignorance..) that have coated the pure nature and they are the source of our so call "bad and good" behaviors, which generate karmic forces that shape the situations we are in. Buddists do not believe there is any all mighty God head, but the universes operates within certain laws, which are neutral. According to the teaching, the very fact that we are born human means we have these impurities, and they can only be cleanse, not by a supreme being or his prophets, through self-cultivation guided by those who are enlightened. Once cleansed, the teaching said, we are in a state of nirvana, or state of perfect peace. In that state, no more karmic forces will be generated and hence no more unending birth in various forms anywhere in the universes. In that state, no more suffering is possible, hence the attainment of perfect happiness. Since buddhism teaches that it is not your believe but right actions and self-cultivation that count, your religious belief is irrelevant.

I don't know which religion is right about the truth of life, but it is not difficult at all for me to decides which makes more sense.
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written by Milo, July 06, 2009 00:21:17
Let's assume, if RPK, as a muslim, happens to be in the "wrong" monothistic religion, but sincerely serve the people until he dies, will he go to heaven? Basically, these would be the answers if the tenets of the respective religion is to be followed:

Christians, Jews and Other Islamic Sect: No way! It is either our way to heaven, or it is the road to hell. Too bad, RPK, all your good deeds do not count.

Buddhists, Jains and Hindus: With accumulations of good karmic forces, he may be born in a better place of existence (of which heaven is only one of them). For how he cared for people, he may even be considered a boddhisatva, someone who will ultimately walk the path of buddhahood!

p/s: this is just my generalised illustration of what it will be like if there is really such a thing as right or wrong religion.
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written by Milo, July 06, 2009 01:03:37
Here is another way to understand the differences between the monotheistic and others religions.

Monothestic religious moral teachings of the west are basically based on fear, i.e. if you don't fear God, you will burn in hell eternally. God loves you, and give you a "free-will" to choose to love him. If you don't (even if you merely think it is sbsurd to love a non-existenting being, which is reasonable) make "that" choice, he is willing to send you to everlasting hell fire to be roasted. You must believe in him even if there are not a shrewed of evidence, and it is too late to repent once you finally have the evidence, i.e. when you met him after you are dead. Seems to defy logic why an all mighty & all loving God can even conceive of such a way to punish the creations he loved for so minor an offence, i.e. doubting his existence for the lack of evidence.

For Eastern religions, particularly buddhism, morals are based on understanding, not fear, e.g. they believe the laws of the universe work a certain way, so being moral is to flow with these laws in a beneficial manner. Let me use some metaphors I have learned recently to illustrate the concept. Fire can burn, so (some) eastern religions say don't put your hand in the fire to avoid getting burn. You don't need to fear fire; you can even use fire in other ways, e.g. cooking. Gravity pulls you down, so don't jump off the building or you will die. But, you can manipulate these laws beneficially if you understand them, e.g. fly a plane despite the presence of gravity.
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written by Milo, July 06, 2009 01:29:50
If doing good is secondary to fearing God in religion; and sins no matter how hideous can be forgiven because God is all loving, then the many hypocricies that we see in religious people makes perfect sense! Why focus on doing good if it matters so little (and require so much more efforts) as compared to just praying to God, assuring him you love him with all your heart?

Take a look around us. If you wonder why the BN can stay in power despite of all the abuses over 50 years, one reason is because people believe that it is more rewarding to side with BN than to be morally right. These masses are practising the tenet that, it is WHO you side with and not WHAT you do that counts. Corrupt officials are rewards while people like RPK are jailed under ISA. Likewise, under the monotheistic belief system, good people can be ISAed in hell if they don't side with God.

Are these teaching moral? If you think they are, don't complain about UMNO or BN. And good luck on your afterlife!
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written by truthbespoken, July 06, 2009 04:14:30
Did God made Man or Man made God?
No God, no Man or no Man, no God?
Which is which?

My philosophy is just to be my good self, to continually upgrade my own standard of living and, wherever and whenever possible, to also to upgrade the standard of the people around me, beginning with family, relatives, friends, colleagues and all those who come within my (small) ambit of my influence, that is, to continually strive to sincerely love humankind and nature's other creations.

Between birth and death, I think the purpose of my existence would hence be met. Others, I would just let nature take over, judgement or no judgement.
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written by areenna, July 06, 2009 05:51:31
written by Persona,
Imagine if there were no requirements for Muslims to eat only halal food, everyone would be eating in the same restaurants happily, no one would be offended if the govt wants to shut down an illegal abbatoir, every race can mingle together while eating, no one would feel hesitant to come to a Chinese dinner etc. The act of eating together is an extremely effective method to foster ties, I'm sure everyone agrees with me on that.


How you can so sure everyone agree with that?

You sound like Muslim and other cannot mingle at all. Are sure about that?

Say, there is no requirements for muslim to eat halal food, will all the world's problem solved?

I think suffering together is extremely effective method to foster ties rather than eating together happily a fat barberque pork happily.

By the way, Abd Razak Baginda, Althantuya and maybe someone else also had eating together in the same restaurant happily once, but look what happend to her.

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written by feight, July 06, 2009 07:52:00
Dear RPK,

People and good and bad at different time and place. As you mentioned in your maturity article, how else can we separate political friend/enemy and business friend/enemy in the same person? But I agree with you the crucial thing is to be able to step back and see a person in entirety. This love the sinner but hate the sin allows us to be objective and not prejudiced/personal. Everyone will do a list of good and bad things. We should be able to forgive them in the end and see them for the good they have. Maybe I'm too idealistic, and yes Chin Peng should be allowed back in my opinion.

The most important thing is for people to be true to themselves, ie conscience. If they have previously sinned, then they should genuinely repent and we should give them this space to do so. I find it hard to believe there is conscience that is evil, just midguided ideals. And perhaps religion is a means to discover the ultimate conscience in oneself. Some say there is God in all of us, maybe that's another name for conscience.
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written by chiongguo, July 06, 2009 09:09:32
The following story although incomplete and inaccurate due to faulty recall will give us a good perspective of what is good and bad.

A guy was thrown from the horse and broke his leg. He cursed the horse and his faith. That was a bad thing. A war broke out shortly after and the guy was exempted from a draft because of his broken leg. That was a good thing. Because there were less able people around this guy had to work doubly hard and he cursed the day he was thrown from the horse. That was a bad thing. Many family had dead owners of land and were in desperate need of some money. Land was available on the cheap. This guy was able to buy many of the land. That was a good thing. When the war ended this guy with a broken leg became one of the riches man around. All because of a bad thing.

There is no good or bad and it is not because we think or reframe a bad event to look good. Every event had a cause and the event become the cause of the next event. "What we do in life ripple through all of eternity" would be an accurate description of life.

This is the buddhistic view of life.

However there is kindness and unkindness. HH The Dalai Lama has a good advice in this regard :

"If you want others to be happy, be kind to others.
If you want to be happy, be kind to others."

Happiness is like the shadow of kindness - even when bad things happen.

The owner of a church can give himself the preaching right but the church goer, been an invitee earned for himself the bitching rights smilies/grin.gif

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written by qwerty, July 06, 2009 09:33:55
The Politicians' GOD...


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written by Fairminded, July 06, 2009 09:55:42
Hi PRK! Great piece. How about writing an article on the cuisines in Heaven. If all the good religious folks of various religions behave themselves, i.e. do good, follow all their religious dietary taboos etc, then "What do they really eat in Heaven"? - The good Hindus dont eat beef and they will go to heaven. The good Jews and muslims dont eat pork and they go to heaven. The good buddhist are vegetarians and they too go to heaven.Then what on earth do they serve for meals there? smilies/grin.gif Does all these good folks still at each others throat during meal time? If they do then they will not be "good folks". Kept me sleepless every night.
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written by Lyon, July 06, 2009 10:40:35
Dear RPK,

Are you really a good person who has earned the right to preach or are you actually a hypocrite who is not really good but is just a coward who does not dare become a bad person like how you would rather be if given that opportunity?".

There is another group of people - the preachers to do it for money and I know a few of them. These take preaching as a profession and they seem to be doing pretty well. Thes people did not earn the right to preach but preach to earn.

Cheers mate
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written by cruzeiro, July 06, 2009 11:50:05
Hi Pete!
These "laws"/ value systems are made simply becos a vast majority cannot think - for verious purposes.
Religion (not theology) is nothing but "primitive politics", wherein the rulers sought legitimacy by invoking the divine, to hoodwink the masses into submission. That argument hold good till today.
But of course this does not negate the role of religion in statecraft/ civilization today.....

Just a question - what if, what is thought and taught to be good in religion, is in actual fact, bad? And then the "naturally good man" piously does it without question?
Does that mean that what's good today, may not be good tomorrow? Does that mean, that concepts in religion are "dynamic" and changes with time - and therefore there are no absolutes and is no such thing as an "good or bad".

There are many incidences in history - in all religions - wherein this phenomenon was present and values have been called to question by the elite wise men"....
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written by yeechut, July 06, 2009 14:20:33
Dear Pete,

I would like to share with you this remarkable piece of writing:

In Judaism, the "Book" is the "Revelation".
In Christianity, the "Teacher" is the "Revelation".
In Islam, the "Religion" is the "Revelation".
For Judaism, the "Book" (or the "Divine Words") must achieve the "Final Victory" (whereby, at the "end of the time', the politically-established sacramental priestly tradition of Judaism will "Rule the world").
For Christianity, the "Teacher" (or the "Incarnation of the Divine Word") must achieve the "Final Victory" (whereby at the "end of time", the politically-established sacramental tradition of Christianity will "Rule the world").
For Islam, the "Religion" (or the politically-established religious movement "Inspired by the Divine Word") must achieve the "Final Victory", (whereby at the "end of time", the authoritarian religio-political tradition of Islam will "Rule the world").
Fundamentally, among all the religious traditions of the world, only Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are inherently (and aggressively) associated with an expansionistic ideal (and attitude of not only cultural, but also social and political superiority) that irreducibly intends (and actively pursues) the destiny ... of total world-domination (or global totalitarian "Rulership").
Likewise, by their very nature, these three religious (...) traditions are, perpetually, in an intentionally performed state of competition, that always seeks (and frequently achieves) conflict, confrontation, and even aggressive war-fare, with one another - and even with all other religions, cultural, social, and political traditions, systems, or institutions in the world.
Because of all of this, humankind as a whole must especially beware of these three religious, cultural, social, and political traditions (including all of their variant formulations, systems, and institutions).
Likewise, humankind as a whole must, by all right cooperative means, refuse to allow (and altogether, act to prevent) these three traditions - and indeed, any and all other traditions, systems, or institutions - from achieving any kind of larger public state of conflict, confrontation, or otherwise aggressive (or even war-like) opposition either to one another or to any of the other religious, cultural, social, and/or political traditions, systems, or institutions in the public world.
The total world of humankind can easily be drawn into a terminal state of conflict by means of the public theatrical exploitation of the mummer's false-face of exoteric "religion" - only, in due course, to find that a "dark" political, social, and cultural tyranny has been embraced by seemingly "lightest" means...

Adi Da: Prior Unity Rules No Kingdom Here
http://www.healer-crystals.com/WorldPeace.html
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written by mentora, July 06, 2009 14:40:14
You don't need religion to know what is bad or what is good. This is explained very simply in the Book of Romans by Paul when he chastised the 'Christians', 'Jews' and the 'Gentiles'.

All men were given the gift of conscience since God made man. In other word, whether we have religion, believe in one or just don't give a damn about anything or anyone, each and everyone of us have conscience to know what is right and wrong.

It's just a matter of choice whether we listen to it or not.

A remark to areenna's posting:

- RPK was conveying that to be good you don't have to be religious or to be in a particular religion.
- For your friend that sleeps around... well, in economics we learn that when there is a demand then there is supply. Maybe all these hundreds of women should learn to close their legs especially the married ones.
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written by DontPlayGod, July 06, 2009 18:45:04
I have long pondered on this question and hope that some sort of answers can be given us from somewhere. All religions known to mankind were invented from a thousand five hundred to more than two thousand five hundred years ago. The most recently invented religion must be the Bahai's, which were invented by an Iranian, but is now banned even in Iran, where only Islam can be practised, so much for the saying in the Koran, "To you your religion, to me mine". I believe it is the same in Saudi Arabia, too. Of course, to me, the logic for this is that it is easier to control the citizens if they all belong to one religion and use that religion to control. This is a very effective way to control a people, using God's name. After all who dares to challenge or oppose God, in the guise of the evil politicians?

And the question I am asking is, why hasn't God sent down a new prophet to answer and clear up any arguments about God? Wouldn't that have been the most sensible way? Instead of people killing and destroying each other in God's name. In our present times, we have satellite TV, internet, radio, telephone, etc. and it would have been the simplest of things to dedicate one TV channel to this new prophet so that the whole world can be covered by this channel. There can be even live questions and answers, email, all done "live". This should put paid to any disputes, doubts, etc. of humankind. And the world can become a paradise!!
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written by panca, July 06, 2009 18:51:42
So we can agree that...

1) religion is only for the good and

2)though we know there are good natured people both inside and outside religion.

3) BUT Bad people do not need religion at all and

4)IF Bad people have a religion, it is an evil cover up pretending to be good.
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written by Steven Ong, July 06, 2009 22:23:58
Pete, what a vast variations of beliefs and ideas you have openned up! Some so humorous and again as you have said - so religious! And some so self righteous and proud! Humanity can be so colourful if not for a few tyrant. From all the comments it seem that all are saying they are the good one. ( So that includes me too ) We can be hypocritical at times and sensible other times, but religion is really a mystery for many.
Some out of fear began to worship god. And do good.
Some worship out of greed (for rewards.)
Some worship because they thought there is nothing to lose.
Some do it because their parents or teachers told them to.
Some just followed but know not what they are doing.
Some do it for the fun of it. God or no god who cares!
For some called atheist they just eat to live and enjoy what the world can offer.They do what they think what is good. In fact many of us do that.But what is good? To some good is bad and bad is good.

So ,what is religion? A way of life? A pop culture? To him who believed, that is truth? But what is truth? Its a mystery. Having said all........ if you have no

Love, JOy , Peace , Patient , Kindness , Goodness , Faithfulness , Gentleness and Self Control - you are nothing and nothing to be proud of. An empty drum indeed.




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written by slimbrowser, July 06, 2009 23:18:50
Religion is a mean to control the masses. The person of religious power controls the mind of his subject. The masses fear of being burnt in hell, would do anything to please the God/s. Off course the propagators of religion would demand the same respect as the God/s, him being the middleman. That would ensure that he stays in power as it is perceived that the God/s favour him.

We have seen it in history, how this has been used. The Incas, Aztecs, Spaniards, the Muslims, Christians, the pharaohs, have all used religion as mind control. From what I see, the church, mosques, etc, are just institutions of a teaching.

Therefore, although some religion propagate the teachings of good over evil, we still see people of strong religious beliefs commit appalling acts to another human.

We should just follow our conscience. Teach our children not to hurt anyone, physically, emotionally and mentally. We should also show by example how this can be achieved. I mean, what is good or bad has been laid down before us. It should not be difficult to sift and shift.
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written by areenna, July 07, 2009 06:01:27
written by mentora, July 06, 2009 14:40:14
You don't need religion to know what is bad or what is good. This is explained very simply in the Book of Romans by Paul when he chastised the 'Christians', 'Jews' and the 'Gentiles


After explaining "You don't need religion to know what is bad or what is good", why Paul went on explaining the methods and laws to obey in order to go to heaven in lenghty messages, after all we can live happily and go to heaven together with conscience, right?

According to Paul in his Book of Roman, we are all sinners, being descendants of a sinner. WE ARE SINNERS SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE HUMAN and have the same blood flowing through our veins that Adam had flowing through his. And that unless we are living in the Spirit, we certainly will NOT enter kingdom of heavens, NO MATTER HOW MANY GOOD WORKS WE HAVE DONE HERE ON EARTH.

wow, that hardly about 'conscience".
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written by areenna, July 07, 2009 06:20:18
shiokguy,
Lucky you, we have a lot of them in Malaysia.
Just telling you Jabatan Imigresen is having a crack down on them, you may want to save "Oh My Alien" later.
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written by garfunky, July 07, 2009 10:36:44
I don't about the other commentors but this is something I have pondered bfore as well.

And you know what? I can tell you that I think I am a bad person by nature. I think most people are but are in denial. But that is just my personal opinion on others and is a different story. Back to focusing on myself.

I have asked myself what I would do if I found out that God does not exist. Or if EVERYONE goes to heaven regardless of how they lived their lives. And if I am really honest with myself...I would probably do bad stuff, maybe steal, have uninhibited sex with multiple partners, and whatnot.

I humbly say that I might be a bad person in nature.

When I face myself like this, and be truthful to myself, this is what I believe I would be. so yes, religion is keeping me in check, and yes I might be a hypocrite in that sense. But so be it, I accept that.

Right now, I am not a bad person. And I shall remain so, and I think in the end it does not matter whether it is by nature, or by religion.
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written by Milo, July 07, 2009 14:58:25
garfunky,

So religion will keep bad people good...really? Let's put it to test. Here is a recent video to show how religion can make good people act barbaric

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging

Quote: Right now, I am not a bad person. And I shall remain so, and I think in the end it does not matter whether it is by nature, or by religion.
--------------------------

There are also a lot of lunatic who thinks thay are good people.
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written by mentora, July 08, 2009 12:30:59
According to Paul in his Book of Roman, we are all sinners, being descendants of a sinner. WE ARE SINNERS SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE HUMAN and have the same blood flowing through our veins that adam had flowing through his. And that unless we are living in the Spirit, we certainly will NOT enter kingdom of heavens, NO MATTER HOW MANY GOOD WORKS WE HAVE DONE HERE ON EARTH.


The point that was being conveyed is that, people who has religion cannot say they are right cause they have a religion and those without one cannot say they are sinless because they have none.

It's that simple. So, when we do something wrong we cannot blame religion or the absence of religion in our lives. Before you do something wrong, you just know it. It's whether you are going to go through it or not.

The reason why it applies to everyone is why Paul went on to explain in the later passages.
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written by garfunky, July 08, 2009 12:53:20
Milo,

You are talking in a sense that is way too broad.

I too can give you examples of how religion did the opposite and brought peace
to nations. But are you sure its religion that is to blame or their human nature which was bad in the first place?

Humans are born with first class cognitive ability. Would not we have been able to process and differentiate right from wrong? A person will know when something is wrong regardless of what other people or religion says. And they still chose to do it.

So I blame human nature, the genotype if you will.

Expanding on this, a person who is bad by nature can still do acts of goodness when conditioned from a young age by parents, religion, society, etc. This is an extrapolation of RPK's article and I am don't think you thought deeply enough about it.

Your other sentence "There are also a lot of lunatic who thinks thay are good people," means nothing. You know the world has the good, the bad and everything in between so it should come as no surprise. Unless you are implying that I am a lunatic in which case I would say get off your high horse and come back down here with the rest of us where you belong.




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written by Milo, July 08, 2009 17:58:13
garfunky, I agree that we should not blame religion for all the bad deeds that religious people do; but we should blame religion for those bad deeds that ONLY religious people will do because they believe what their religion says. The example I gave is precisely to point that out.

As for my sentence, it is precisely to ask you what you have stated in response to my example, i.e. that your claim that religion has prevented you from becoming bad means nothing. Those pilots who flew the plane into the twin towers are example of brainwashed religious lunatics who is in a strange way, can be classified as "good" people in the religious context. They would not have done what they have done if not for their sincere and strong religious faith, so strong that they are prepared to die in the process. We cannot blame a person who has sincere and strong religious faith in God or call him evil, can we? So who should we blame if not religion?

p/s: When I say religion, I am refering to the dogmatic types. I have no problem with those whose basic tenets do not allow them to be unkind and dogmatic.
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written by adamckteh, July 11, 2009 15:22:11
People who told lies are bad people. People who did hurt or harms other people or mankind intentionally or unintentionally are bad people. These people are in the 1% categery that you mentioned.
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