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They will all go to hell, but you might end up joining them PDF Print
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Thursday, 30 April 2009 11:56

The basic foundation of the protests by the Muslim groups is that Islam is the one true religion, the faith of the one true God, the Absolute Truth and that every other religion on the face of the earth is false. False deities, false faiths, false, false, false. As such, certain rights are inalienable to the Muslims, and absolutely alienated from the non-Muslims.

By Yusseri Yusof, The Malaysian Insider 

If there is one thing that demonstrates that we are probably just a bunch of people who happen to live on the same land, it is the issue of religious conversion. This is the one thing that shows, starkly, why we still have some distance to go before we can safely say that we are one united nation.

Last week, five ministers sat down and came up with the policy that a child is to be raised in the faith of the parents when they were married even if one spouse then decides to become a Muslim. It was a decision that was greeted warmly by the non-Muslims, as well as the odd Muslim or two. But for seemingly the majority of Muslims, it was not received very well.

Firstly, let's consider the reason why this policy even needed to be made and announced. The core is that there has been a slew of cases where a marriage broke down and one of the spouses converted into Islam. And in what feels a bit like a “package deal” the saudara/i baru then converts the children into Islam too. Usually, well … obviously, without the consent of the other parent.

The cases are numerous, more numerous than most people think, and invariably they involve Indian families. Why that is so, I'd imagine that the sociologists could tell us eventually.

Malik Imtiaz Sarwar, the lawyer who is probably one of the most prominent persons involved in these sort of stuff, was quick to laud the decision though he expressed reservations as to how the policy would actually translate into practice.

He also wrote that in his opinion, the policy seems to adhere to the Constitution, where the word “parent” is also to be understood to mean “parents”.

Why was that pertinent? Because Zulkifli Noordin (and it had to be him, didn't it?), among others, objected to the policy, stating that there was already precedent in this matter, citing the case of R. Subashini where the court decided that under Article 12 (4) of the Constitution, any one of the parent or legal guardian is allowed to decide on the faith of the child(ren).

At that point, we start to slide down the slippery slope of logical fallacy and vacuous reasoning.

I say that because, well, let's examine the protests made by those who object to the policy.

Zulkifli argues that the matter is resolved in spite of the policy because the court asserted that one of the parents can decide which faith the child is to be in. What Zulkifli did not say, but seemed to imply, is that the one parent is to obviously be the Muslim parent. What Zulkifli did not say, but seemed to imply, is that the moment one of the parents converts into Islam, that parent is automatically elevated in status and therefore has the upper hand.

But then, Zulkifli has also always believed that converting a child into Islam is not really conversion but more of a reversion. Because he believes that every child that has not reached puberty is considered Muslim under certain interpretations of Syaria law. This, of course, might be rather shocking news to the parents of the children, but try telling that to Zulkifli.

Similarly, the Muslim coalition of NGOs calling itself Pembela protests the policy where one of the members, Yusri Mohamad, said: “In Article 12 section 4 of the Constitution, the faith of a child who is not yet an adult is determined by the parents. The courts have interpreted that the parents have the right to decide regardless if they are the husband or wife.”

Pembela's argument was that the policy would deny the parent who converted his or her right and responsibility over the future of the children, saying that it would not be fair to those who want to convert into Islam.

What is not said, but seemingly implied, is that as long as one of the parents is a Muslim, then he or she can convert the children, even if the other one disagrees. Because as a Muslim, the parent has a responsibility to raise the children to be faithful and good Muslims.

To make clear why this reasoning breaks down, let's flip it the other way. Say that the other parent who has not converted decides that the children should be in the religion of the unconverted parent, how is the “right to decide” not applied to the parent?

Or, let's say that the other parent who has not converted then decides to convert from, for example, Hinduism to Catholicism, just as his or her erstwhile partner converts into Islam. How is the “right to decide” not applied to the now Catholic parent?

If denying the right of the converted Muslim parent to raise the children in his or her faith is unfair, how is it fair to deny the unconverted parent the right to raise the children in her or his faith?

Wait, you know what, I'm going to stop beating about the bush and get straight to the point. The basic foundation of the protests by the Muslim groups is that Islam is the one true religion, the faith of the one true God, the Absolute Truth and that every other religion on the face of the earth is false. False deities, false faiths, false, false, false. As such, certain rights are inalienable to the Muslims, and absolutely alienated from the non-Muslims.

And this reasoning scares the pants out of some non-Muslims in Malaysia, and pisses off a lot of the others. In some cases, achieving both at the same time.

I write this as a Malay, ergo a Muslim. I write this as a Muslim who looks on uncomfortably at all the custody battles and conversion arguments. I write this as a Muslim who finds it hard to accept that it's okay to assume primacy over others, simply because their beliefs are considered false … rendering them as less than worthy of the same consideration as Muslims.

Islam is a religion of justice, fairness, equality and compassion. It's well past time that we prove it, isn't it? And stop scaring the pants out of, and pissing off, our fellow Malaysian brothers and sisters. They will all end up going to hell, of course, but you never know, you might end up joining them.

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written by satuan, April 30, 2009 12:34:13
Fendyoasis says...."HOWEVER THE OTHER HALF SHOULD HAVE VISITATION RIGHTS"."ENOUGH SAID CASE CLOSED"
Put yourself in the 'other half' shoes and think...maybe yr pea brain may have some sparks left.
An ARSE hole speaks or excretes shit and farts all the time.

Baby taken away while breast feeding..is the most cruel act of all.Islam forbids that.Now thats case closed.

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written by ahmadneil, April 30, 2009 12:35:47
What is the big deal about Islam!Why are other religion's followers not so violent as muslims.Why not write about other religions.My religion is in my heart,not on my skin or on my face.
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written by apa jadi, April 30, 2009 12:36:58
"Therefore Islam is prioritized, ...
Nuff said. Case close. "

A good joke I hear. How does that reconcile with the writer's last sentence?

"Islam is a religion of justice, fairness, equality and compassion. ...stop pissing off, our fellow Malaysian brothers and sisters. They will all end up going to hell.... but you never know, you might end up joining them."

I see that some of these estranged couples actually use conversion as a convenient weapon to deny the estranged spouse of gaining custody to the child(ren). Will they be in heaven for what they do?
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written by hitam had, April 30, 2009 12:39:24

In the end what man proposes, god disposes.

Pax.

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written by LILIN, April 30, 2009 12:44:01
http://wfol.tv/index.php?optio...8&Itemid=9
CIMB is a bank zaman kuno says the editor...read why!
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written by truthbespoken, April 30, 2009 12:58:42
Religion, religion and religion. So much Time is always spent on who and what is right about this issue. How much more unproductive can Malaysians be! Wake up from your deep slumber and get on with your jobs, will you? Can Malaysia have a progressive and prosperous future less these unworthy bickerings? Give Malaysia a chance as you guys can't really answer. Only God have the answers! So, why publicly 'fight with God', claim credit and profess that you know the answers all the time? Blockheads!
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written by Flex65, April 30, 2009 13:01:52
The basic foundation of the protests by the Muslim groups is that Islam is the one true religion, the faith of the one true God, the Absolute Truth and that every other religion on the face of the earth is false. False deities, false faiths, false, false, false.

This is the biggest joke of all. If Islam is so great why the it produces so many 'bad' people? Which race has the highest incest cases? Which race has the most Mat Rempits? Which race has the highest divorce rates? I dare the government to release the statistics.
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written by Susanna, April 30, 2009 13:06:48
I don't want a religion full of self righteous persons.
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written by miwaki, April 30, 2009 13:54:18
My advice to those couples who intend to divorse after one of them converted to islam is to migrate first,to Vietnam maybe or Myanmar.Issue will not be that complicated over there,I suppose.
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written by *********, April 30, 2009 13:58:34
One must know, for example, that free­dom of religious conversion en­­shrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is antithetical to Islam.
Islam has its own way of dealing with such an issue...More http://*********.********.com
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written by Steven Ong, April 30, 2009 14:03:54
''They may all go to hell, but you may end up joining them.'' How can a blind man see his own face? Islam may be one true religion, but the followers may be blind! Can't they see the troubles, problems, destruction and division Islam is causing around the world? Are they blind? Dont need to refer to the constitution, policies or religious doctrines for a just and fair judgement. Our conscience and mind will tell us the rights and the wrongs. Its just that due to pride and blindness, due to the constant brain washing and programing by the teachers, who are already blind, all of them refuse and can not see the rights and wrongs, the fair AND UNFAIR. Wake up all you Muslims. Open your eyes and see. Do not believe all that your teachers tells you. See for your self. I say this, not because I want to ridicule you or Islam, BUT because I want to help you,because I love you all. You are my brothers and sisters.
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written by Zym Zym, April 30, 2009 14:10:53
truthbespoken: Only God have the answers!


God has no answer coz he don't even know what the hell is he doing in this expanding universe or shall I put it, multiverse.. He is so fickle minded that he keep going to and fro across the space-time continuum to change the course of history. If he is omnipresent and omniscient, why didn't he know that Lucifer would go against him, why didn't he know that Eve would eat the apple? Main main ke dia? First, he put among the Israelites, hundred of prophets then came along Jesus to re-write what had gone wrong. Thousands year later, aiya he realised that his plan tak jalan...he went over to the east and whispered to an illiterate guy in a cave. You see the point? Even God also has no answer la, my friend. To cut the story short, there is probably no God. Zym can attest it.
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written by vjonathan, April 30, 2009 14:12:07
Mr. Yuesri you made my week,don't ever feel uncomfortable again but be proud of your self as you fulfil the most basic virtue of being born Malaysian.

If any of you out there grew up in Sentul(MBS) and was my classmate between 1965~1975 you will remember and know what I mean (growing up then without all the 'hang-ups' you have today.....wonder who was responsible for changing all that?), so please all of you do be proud of (your, Roots,Life,Purpose)wherever you came from, your journey thru life and the present . I would bravely say that you all must must feel as I do at loss with all thats going on in this our homeland and Mr. Yusseri Yusof has brightened our day,(there's hope yet) won't you all agree? cheers & best regards Mr Yusseri Yusof.
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written by chanatak, April 30, 2009 14:16:23


Can we have more muslims like this please? Surely Islam will then not be feared, and muslims will gain true respect.

Isn't this the truth?

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written by rpremkumar2u, April 30, 2009 14:24:14
Let's draw a parallel here with the contents of this article and that of the usurping of the Perak Govt. The ends justify the means? Name one case of conversion where there was an amicable split between the parents and the divorced parent then exercising his/her freedom to convert and follow the tenets of this beautiful religion of Islam? It seems to me, that the conversion is academic, i.e. to achieve a short cut to staking a claim over the offspring(s) and short circuiting the process in comparison to the existing legal remedy under the civil law. In many cases, it has been the wish of one spouse to terminate the marriage and go on to be wedded to a Muslim spouse. Therefore, do we wish to see at the end of rope, a converted parent converting his off-spring and being accepted by the new fraternity as a saudara baru? Its mostly the guys converting isn't it? Therefore the conversion amounts to the religion being utilized as a tool. There is a pathetic justification oft accompanying the lament that upon separation or divorce, the parent having visitation rights does not have the cooperation of the other half in allowing access to the children. Pathetic and a lament but all the same , true. Now let's divert our righteousness to the children in the tussle. There is this family environment gradually engulfed in parental disputes - the crescendo is audible to the bewildered child(ren). Then they witness furtherance in that the parents don't live under the same roof nor do they get access to the same set of parents any longer. Ask any child psychologist and you'll be shocked at what the child's mind endures. Then religion is exercised on a scale that emphasizes on the form. There is a bid to outdo the other on the part of the parents. Parenting is an alien word. Its up-for-grabs scene. The toll is on the child's formative years. There is a tendency to forget that the child never came from either parent; it came through them. For, in reality, it is life perpetuating itself. We, in our finite wisdom continue to label our life's attainment by attaching new labels of religion on our offspring. Irreversible labels. Imprinted on the psyche of the offspring.
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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 14:31:50
fendyoasis,
Your comment implies,that you and all these third parties and strangers have the right to impose,judge and conclude the day to day living on people on earth.As such would you and them be physically present to pick up the pieces for people in their predicament caused not by them but by others,or you would just say too bad,unless you become muslims we will consider help to a better life??

Would you and these others,take a crying baby/child,yearning for his or her mother's warmth and comfort? Would you and these others be there to explain how traumatically and drastically their lives will change,espescially when the children?

While a baby who has been listening to the soft singing of his or her mother's lullaby and prayers in another language and faith,now has to be simply exposed to unfamiliarities and surroundings.So if it has happen and can happen with good results for people like you to insist,are you saying that it would be better? Are you comfirming that what the father did is better under the circumstances and if the baby was still with the mother in Ms.Gandhi's case and her other children just remaining in the religion they are born,it would be a disaster??

Before you harshly reply me,where i know you are entitled to your opinion,do remember this involves people and most of all children.You were not the one enduring Ms Gandhi's pregnancies physically and personally.You were not the father or husband who was there supporting the pregancies.Your are not there to witness the many minutes and hours these people spent as families,before one party decided to unravel his or her desires for a new love,be it for a religion,a bombshell,a stud,a new ambition or even giving up a his responsibility for a luxury car or status.

Please understand one thing,the hypocrasy and contradiction is glaring at everyone.

Each case has gotten to where it is,due to selfish wishes of adults.Don't include a child's well-being and future to be better when there are initial disputes between adults who had not been wise,accepting,responsible to make right decision.They did not first accept or acknowlegde their decision,however made would bring about hurt if it was not consensual.If so accept the hurt,indulge in your still decided new need,without dragging and imposing it on to others and minors,just because somewhere in a writing it says you have rights!!!!

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written by citizenmy, April 30, 2009 14:41:57
I'd rather ignore fendyoasis comments. Looks like his posting are intenteded to provoke others, not to give an opinion. Whoever this this is..God bless you.
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written by Admiral Tojo, April 30, 2009 14:45:52
GOD spoke to me again and said Zym Zym is correct. If anyone does not believe me, try talking to GOD and see. Talk and NOT worship and perhaps GOD will communicate.

Shalom
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written by truthbespoken, April 30, 2009 15:20:43
Bro Zym Zmn,

You sounded like a free man. Much as I would agree with you, say that to the believers and they will never agree with you about not believing in God. Hence, the unworldly bickerings. So, through 'God', we shall communicate. One small step at a time, bro, at least we must demonstrate that our thinking is open and have not been casted inside a tunnel. Cheers!
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written by dusunbukit, April 30, 2009 15:33:57
The basic foundation of the protests by the Muslim groups is that Islam is the one true religion, the faith of the one true God, the Absolute Truth and that every other religion on the face of the earth is false. False deities, false faiths, false, false, false. As such, certain rights are inalienable to the Muslims, and absolutely alienated from the non-Muslims.



I love to participate in this kind of open discussion about religion, esp. islam. But, first of all, I would like those Malaysian muslims to get rid of their hyper-sensitiveness about their religion. Afterall, we're all equal - merely a humble human being, knows nothing about the after-life..

Personally, the concept of religion, heaven and hell are just like other laws, created by men to maintain order in human society. Religion as such as a perfect law with the exclusion of logic but purely blind-faith. One MUST believed or else to face the punishments of God (hell?) in the after-life.

Is there anyone out there have seen God? (don't give me all those religion's craps as an answer) or is Harussani the mufti is God? or are the members of the so called PEMBELA is the messangers of God? or Abdullah Badawi or Nazri Aziz? but please, don't mention Najib, he is not even fit to be a follower of God's whatever teaching, if its really existed.

Convertions to any religions are of one's free-will, no one should interfere or be seen to imposed one's belief to another human-being, and no one have the rights to say another belief is false. lets us men, decide our own belief. afterall, one's relationship with whosoever they believed as his God is exclusively his, and his alone. who cares if one is going to heaven or hell? so long as one lived his entire life according to the value that he think is right. What say you Harussani?

I am sick for being a default muslim, thus I choose to live according to what I believed is right. No dos and don'ts. I never set my foot to any mosques but prayed every moment in my heart. If God really existed, He will always hear my prayer. I prayed for God to show Himself and tell us the truth, especially to those who were pretending to know the absolute truth, or else I am God and only me (at least, that is what I believed)..

Some may say hell is awaiting me. Who cares? Afterall, I will be among those VVIPs, having happy hours (I guess, there are plenty of beer and I will be sitting next to Najib while listening to the Penguin singging karaoke..)
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written by A MI, April 30, 2009 16:06:57
Islam is a religion of justice, fairness, equality and compassion. It's well past time that we prove it, isn't it? And stop scaring the pants out of, and pissing off, our fellow Malaysian brothers and sisters.


I agree with this proposition. BUT, How many of us can walk the talk?

We Malaysian Muslims are quick to point fingers at the so-called kafirs! We are quick to reprimand, talk down and some holier than thou Muslims (very prominent among Malay Muslims) run-down even other Muslims considered lesser Muslims.
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written by DontPlayGod, April 30, 2009 16:17:40
Sorry, how can we non-Muslims accept a religion that kills and maims innocent people in the name of God? And then claims that virgins are waiting for them on the other side?

My understanding of religon is that it is the essence of unselfish love, kindness, and goodwill to all mankind. I can only say that a man is godly/holy if he has love for his fellowmen and extends kindness, and goodwill to him, besides givng him help in his hour of need. But there are others who think that upholding their religion means killing, and slaughering people who don't accept their beliefs.
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written by Debbie, April 30, 2009 16:22:33
I am supposed (I say again supposed) to be a christian by birth.....but did anybody ask me want i want ....of course not ..coz i was a baby... did I ask to be born in this family?..I had no choice....GOD JUST PUT ME WHERE HE THOUGHT I WOULD BE WHO I AM.
This GOD gave me parents ..who always wanted the best for me.........right from breast feeding to the bestest of education.

Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, hinduism.and the rest........Just remember you are here to do good to your human race and if you cant ,... blame it on the politicians. hahaha

Shalom
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written by CatV5, April 30, 2009 16:25:55
God said to me,

"Malaysians, I give my eternal love to you all.

You wished for this, you got what you wanted. Conflicts and dissatisfaction among you. It will never end until you realize this is an illusion that you are creating, upholding and sadly addicted to it.

Thus you shall see from this contrast of colors that you are seeing, a veil that you have agreed to hold. Look closer and you shall see. It is all about love. A love that you have forgotten and misinterpreted in your many generations. Redirect that lost love to me and you shall be freed from the bondage that you have created."

And i answer. "Some day god. Some day. Right now they are busy nitpicking who gets the child because this involves their pride and ego. They love it, what can i say?..."

And god replied. "Say, it's just part of the awakening process. They shall see. They shall see."

And i said "Cheers!! y'all"

smilies/shocked.gif smilies/shocked.gif Lol what am i saying... omg...
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written by Anti Relon, April 30, 2009 16:27:03
From 'The Freethinker'
www.freethionker.co.uk

Swine flu: Imam claims virus affirms Koran



Salerno, 28 April (AKI) - The global spread of the deadly swine flu virus affirms Islam's teachings and its holy book, the Koran, according to imam Amadia Rachid based in the Italian city of Salerno. "We believe that what is happening shows the truth of our faith," said Algerian-born Rachid in an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI).

Pigs are considered unclean animals in the Muslim and Jewish religions and eating pork is proscribed.

"Even Muslims who live in Italy are talking about swine flu at the moment," Rachid said.

Most Muslims are not worried by the disease, as they don't eat pork and don't work with pig livestock, he said.

"But many believe the disease confirmed the teaching of the Koran."

The Koran orders Muslims to avoid close contact with pigs, as well as not to eat pork, Rachid noted.

"The Islamic faith doesn't explain exactly why pigs should be considered unclean animals," he said.

"But it's clear that for most theologians, it is precisely to avoid the spread of disease that Islamic tradition tends to keep men away from pigs," he added.

Scientific truths lie behind the teachings of the Koran that has taken many centuries for man to discover, Rachid claimed.

The number of probable deaths from swine flu in Mexico - the epicentre of the virus - has risen to 152.

A total of 26 cases have been confirmed there and at 79 cases have been confirmed worldwide across several continents.

Although the World Health Organization has not yet declared a pandemic of swine flu - warning it is a virus with "pandemic potential."

WHO said the flu was being spread by human-to-human transmission but has not yet recommended travel restrictions or border closures.

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written by Anti Relon, April 30, 2009 16:30:27
Hope these NGOs guys read 'The God Delusion' and 'God is Not Great'.
It might change their perception about Dog.
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written by Anti Relon, April 30, 2009 16:37:24
Converts become more fanatical than their peers
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written by Fart Fart Wah, April 30, 2009 16:46:18
the logic sickens the rational mind. Cow disease is from the cows..you die eating cows..and some UMNO cows think like cows. You eat chicken you get bird flu and die..
you eat mutton..you die of heart attack

the statistics show that 2 to 3 billion people eat pork in the world same as eating cows and chicken and goat( heart attack)..

the arguement that you eat pork and go to hell is UMNO's little allahs preaching.
this means 3 billion people will go to hell????..something is wrong in the thinking..

the UMNO little allahs..do worse things ..
they rape
they take bribes
they murder and coverup
they steal children from their mothers
they steal bodies
they approve divorce and remarriages like changing underwear
they keep women on the side
they steal money from Tabung Haji
they steal people's land
they charge and make millions from water which is a free gift of Allah
they plunder the land and steal the people's money by getting commissions by the millions and bribes
some drink like fish in Bangsar
some smokelike hell
some lie like satan


.so eating pork is a bigger sin??

and separating families husbands and wives is ok because of Islam??

I think the logic of these little allahs is so warped that Syaitan is laughing until he falls out of hell..


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written by apa jadi, April 30, 2009 16:49:37
fendyoasis,

"If you think that the guy is converting for the sake of custody then go ahead and prove it then. OK! Nuff said. case close."

Hehehe...oasis man, running out of water and heat encroaching?

Read with a light heart, you will treat adversities with jokes. I read jokes from you.

Have you heard of "paralysis by analysis"? Why go on proving it when it should not have happened in the first place. For your case, everyone will be chasing after many red herrings. The world is going for simplification, you are going for complications. That's why you don't understand jokes.

If you have closed the case, why keep opening cases people bringing up?....hehehe
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written by Fart Fart Wah, April 30, 2009 16:53:25
and the second biggest SIN by the UMNO little allahs is allowing a mamak to hide under Islam and run away from his original wife and neglect the taking care of the former wife and children.

And the biggest SIN by the little allahs in UMNO is to allow a mamak to be a Melayu and to take what belongs to the actual Malay and give it to a Melayu palsu...

and the biggest SIN is to allow a palsu Melayu to run the country for 22 years ..he raped the country and made himself and his friends rich..

it took 22 years to get rid of this Melayu palsu because of the little allahs in UMNO who danced and played to the tune of the Melayu palsu..mamak..
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written by wannabepatriotic, April 30, 2009 17:17:51
Forced conversion is a joke, especially here in Malaysia. How many matsallehs convert for love/sex for our local wo/men - but do they follow the road that they converted to? I know aplenty that converted for the sake of getting married to a muslim. This is already a nasi jadi bubur norm in Malaysia.

In this case, if pariental custody is given to the 'Muslim' parent, this reeks of double standards (another norm in Malaysia). No court or law can pass this judgment.
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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 17:57:06
fendyoasis,
As a courtesy,i'm obliged to reply.Firstly thank-you for not being too harsh towards me.I just want to share what i'm about to write,if you don't mind.

I'm 47 years old,married with a child turning 4.I became a muslim convert almost 12 years ago.WHY? A question for all readers and people of religion to weigh diferently in any case of conversion.For me,the conversion to adopt any other religion other than the one you are born or even if you were non-practising,is commonly based on marriage,a need to maintain common religion in some cases,a need by Law in countries like M'sia in the case for muslims or even if it's truly for the love and understanding of the religion.

So as for me,ex-Catholic,i converted when i was single,not underage,not under the influence of alcohol or drugs,not under spite or malice and certainly not to teach anyone a lesson that being born Roman Catholic is less perfect.I did it when my malay boy friend of many,many,may years left me for a non-malay almost always half nakedly dressesd bombshell.

I had never found more peace at the moment of my conversion,with just a few attending religious people who were all steangers to me.No family member,no friends,no boyfriend or boyfriend's family present.I had been to Mecca to perform Umrah not long after.( i do need to say that i was allowed into Mecca with my passport bearing my original birthname.I had entry stamp from Saudi Embassy after confirming my muslim status from my conversion card).

...to be continued...



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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 18:18:45
My life only started getting worst,as people around me wre not supportive and for my too soft and hard-hearted ways,till i met my husband.He was a non-practising Christian,divorced a number of years,where his wife has full custody of his children.He decided to marry me although i was already a muslim convert for almost 7 years.

As for the marriage to be a union,under Law and "GOD" he converted and he did it just for me.We married in a mosque,although my family not too happy,they and many muslim and non-muslims friends attended to witness the ceremony in the mosque.Never has my husband allowed any imposition on himself to convert his children from previous marriage and never was it suggested.

He surprised me from the start to fast and has engaged in prayer and gone to the mosque for friday prayers.I was blessed to concieve at 42,deliver at 43 a perfect baby who scored 10 apgar rating.

Now things after many unfortunate whirlwinds,is much better,although i'm estranged from my family who succumb to the sentiments of not accepting us as muslims.I have been told by relatives that i'd forced my husband's conversion and that was cause i couldn't get out of it myself.My relatives and mother are praying me and my husband revert,forgetting that my child who is now born muslim is everything to me in the world.Are they expecting their selfish prayer to be answered and if it was, are they saying that it's okay for Islamic Bodies to then take my child from me or that i could actually be parted from my child to make their wishes come true??

I made the decision to convert as an adult,so did my husband.His own children by previous marriage,parents,siblings,relatives and friends accepts him and us.We are responsible for our actions and for our child's well-being.We learn everyday to cope and overcome our mistakes and what is in the world around us.My child experiences all celebrations within the family besides Ramadhan and knows the difference.And we did it without imposing or dragging anyone into our decisions.

So we understand how it would be to be in any situation involving selfish decision and uncaring impositions on anyone,muslim or non-muslims.

I hope the best for everyone,i hope for most things to cahange,then again i can only hope....





i hope the best for everyone,i hope most things can change,then again i can just hope....
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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 18:20:54
Apologising for spelling mistakes and type errors thanks..got to go now

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written by CatV5, April 30, 2009 18:29:13
Imanj... What a beautiful experience.... thank you for sharing...

I wonder if that 4 year old son got a bumi status or not...
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written by apa jadi, April 30, 2009 19:05:51
Allah Mak! fendyoasis,

Allah Mak! orang tua, itulah pasal kau berlawak. Saya memang paham tentang "(3)suku kata" awak ni:

"Therefore, in such case Islam is prioritized. Paham tak anak-anak? "

Nampaknya kau penganut "Ketuanan". Apa kata kalau Allah pun tak paham kata kau ni, mala anak2 macam kami?

LMAO...jenaka betul.
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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 19:53:37
Dear CatV5,
Firstly i didn't mention my child being a son,i have a daughter,secondly,thank you if you think what i shared,it to be a beautiful experience,unless it was sarcasm on your part.Thirdly as ignorant as you are like most Malaysian,2 non-malay muslims convert do not make one or more bumiputra children.And also we are non-malay non-bumiputra.

Please furnish yourself with who are the bumiputras.A relative of mine married to eurasian,her children are bumiputra that i know.Non-malay marrying malay,children are bumiputra.I know of non-malay non-muslim sabahans and sarawakians as bumiputra.

Just for your info we are catergorised under others as race for that is what our birth race as been.

As for saham if you should be wondering,please check with your local bank for saham facilities that are also offered to non-muslim non-bumiputra. Thanks

So it would do most people some good to be a little kinder and not think that a few irresponsible people together with many powerful people who are too proud for their own good.

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written by imanj, April 30, 2009 19:56:47
Dear fendyoasis,

I let you on something based on experience,the religious department like other religious deparment will try their best to suggest conversion even if the children are not in your custody or over age.For they are those who think there are destined on earth to go the extra mile to do "GOD" work even if it's not required.

So my newly converted hasband was no spared the 'small try'

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written by AsamLaksa, April 30, 2009 22:04:24
Fendyoasis,

'Accept the facts' is never a good justification. In fact it is the usual way for many in a desperate attempt at justifying what you can't justify on principles. Malaysia is not an Islamic state in the Constitution and nowhere does it say that Islam impose higher priority over other faiths in the Constitution. I do not deny that the Constitution places Islam as the state religion but that does not mean it overrules other faiths.

What really matters in Ms Gandhi's and similar cases is about fairness. Are we forgetting this? Has Malaysian law lost sight of this?

Laws in itself is neither just nor unjust. It is a tool used to achieve consistency and justice. If there be injustice, oppose it. If there be unjust laws, repeal it.

The constitution provides the right of a parent in deciding the faith of their charge. It is not gender specific and thus applies to both parents.

The bottom line should be, is it just to deny the right (a right provided by the Constitution) of one parent in deciding the faith of a minor? That's all it's about. No need for your many pointless posts.
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written by NRR, April 30, 2009 22:46:11
fendyoasis,

Please go and read the constitution again as I think you do not know what you are talking about. People like you continue to chase non existent rules and regulations just to support your argument. The MT readers are well read and knowledgeable in this area.
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written by apa jadi, May 01, 2009 01:06:42
written by fendyoasis, April 30, 2009 12:12:55
...
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"..macam lawak babi!! kelakar sangat! hehehehe....ur mouth is just full of shit..hehehe"

You are at your best. I think you break record on the first commentor too.

hehehe.....Now I understand more about Islam....TQ...the pudding lies in the eating...hehehe.

This is my final reply to you in this posting. You won...hehehe.

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written by AsamLaksa, May 01, 2009 03:01:41
Fendyoasis,

Officially Indonesia have no direct diplomatic links with Israel. However Indonesian commandos trained with Mossad, ties are warming, Israeli diplomats made formal visit to Indonesia and there is no restriction on Indonesians visiting Israel. Indonesia have never denied the existence of the Isreali state. You can look it up yourself. I am wrong in generally saying Indonesia recognises Israel but Indonesia at least recognise something enough to send their personnel there and not just on holiday.

Is Malaysia conclusively an Islamic state? If it is, I am not bothered. I'm not afraid of Islamic state, Boleh state, communist state, pariah state, etc. But no one can say for sure that Malaysia is an Islamic state based on the constitution or even in the current government structure and practices.

Your point is simply, in Malaysia whenever Islam or Muslims are involved it would favour the Muslim. You still avoid to answer the fundamental issue on Ms Gandhi's case: is it fair? That's all you need to look at.
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written by Pakyeh, May 01, 2009 08:02:10
Religion is something that cannot be forced upon.It is wise for the children to learn both the religions and lateron decide whicheve religion to adopt or be a free thinker or an Atheist.
I dont see it as a problem. Besides the core value of religion is "amal maaruf nahi mungkar" or doing good and forbid evil. this is the core value of all religion.
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written by Namaste, May 01, 2009 12:04:57
Malaysia's official Religion is Islam by constitution but it is not an Islamic state yet though in the making when Sharia law replaces the civil law eventually for all. The bad news is many will have no hands,eyes and legs begging around and the good news is many Muslims will perish when they are stoned to death for raping, khalwat and incest which will reduce the population and cases too. How nice as UMNO will be replaced with PAS/PR.

Now on the logical side and in reality let take Pakistan as an Islamic country where Muslims are killing Muslims, bombing Mosques and destructing Shrines because of difference in Islamic sects. Is this how Malaysia will be in the future?

I hope Muslims must learn and accept to co-exist and respect other religions which came before Islam existed for only then humanity will exist or else we can argue until the cows come home we will never resolve the ego which is in power to rule the country using religion instead of intellect. Finally "WE ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE.WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY HUMAN EXPERIENCE.
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written by apa jadi, May 01, 2009 12:52:13
fendyoasis,

Pacik, since you said it again, I have no choice but to reply you one more time. Congratulation that you have a very thick skull, even a bullet cannot get through, not mentioning selsema babi. You are safe.

You also make me understand better the attributes of a good Muslim with the pudding you served.

If we go on like that, I am afraid RPK have to ban us for wasting the blog bandwidth. Musuk akal tak? Lawak babi.
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written by fendyoasis, May 01, 2009 13:10:38
apa jadi..
kah kah kah....I thought u said last posting?...kah kah kah! Im getting to you arent I?

Please make us laugh some more with ur piggy jokes! Eih loser, I said it before to admin leave us be for the sake of freedom of speech. Bodoh bodoh ngko nie...lain kali kalo tak nak dimalukan diamjelaaa...kan dah kena...PADAN MUKE!

This thing gonna be archived by that time admin can delete all of these off. So apa nak jadi...ur embarassement will be deleted off..ape lagi..seronok la tu!

Asam Laksa
If ur planning to reply to my last posting, i let u have the last word and thats it from me to U for this issue.

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written by lynn, May 01, 2009 22:56:19
" ....But for seemingly the majority of Muslims, it was not received very well."

If these Muslims are already Muslims, what are they so concerned abt with regard to the non-Muslim kids of say, Indira? I don't think this issue affect their lives, does it? But it really affects the lives of for e.g. Indira & her 3 kids!!!

There is this "wrong priorities" problem in Bodohland - this obssession & possessiveness over one's religion - overtly so. A corrupt govt loves it when majority are in concert like this - everybody's attention is focused on a non-issue of theirs. If only the same people gave as much emphasis & obsession to quality of education, quality of public schools (did u read abt 42 kids at wangsa maju school down with food poisoning?), quality of our lives esp. here in the Klang valley (life here sucks to high heaven), and why no hue & cry everyday over corruption?

So much corruption by the bn govt ministers, why no loud & angry emphasis on this issue? Come on! No wonder this country is headed to hell.
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written by MAGELLAN, May 02, 2009 00:22:37
Conversion to islam by a spouse, especially the husband, is just a convenient way to gain custody of his children. Most law experts will concur with me that in a civil divorce case of a non-muslim or for that matter a muslim, the priority for custody of their children would be given to the mother. There is no way that the husband can get custody other than being able to proof that his spouse is incapable of looking after their children or abusive towards the children and etc.

So what is the most convenient way to gain custody??? Conversion to Islam. Surely, then you will get custody of your children via the syariah courts. Most men who do this, to spite their spouses or due to their love for their children, whom they find hard to live without. Most of these men do not even practise their new found religion, they just use it as an opportunity to gain custody.

Wake up people! This is all there is to it!
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written by fendyoasis, May 02, 2009 09:21:03
MAGELLAN
I said this before and I say it again, death penalty is the punishment for someone who is an apostate, if someone thinks that he converts to ISlam to abuse the system, prove it then we impose death penalty on them...cos it means that this guy is an aposatate.

Wake up MAGELLAN, thats why we take ISLAM seriously.
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