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The other side of Hudud PDF Print
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Friday, 24 April 2009 18:31

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If Suk Yee is proven to be really poor and needs to steal out of necessity, then the authorities would be summoned to court and would be asked how come Suk Yee is so poor that she needs to steal.


NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Poor pregnant mum jailed a day and fined RM1,000
By MEERA VIJAYAN AND AUSTIN CAMOENS, The Star

JOHOR BARU: A pregnant woman was sentenced to one day in jail and fined RM1,000 after she told a Magistrates court she stole baby clothes worth over RM150 because she was too poor to pay for it.

Housewife Chai Suk Yee, 26, from Taman Daya, was charged with committing the offence at Level 2 of Jusco Tebrau City at around 3.30pm on April 23.

She was accused of stealing a list of 10 items of baby clothes and accessories worth RM158.70.

Chai, who pleaded guilty, told Magistrate Hafizah Johor Ariff Johor that she took the clothes for her unborn child because she could not afford to buy the clothes.

She also said that she was unemployed and her husband did not have a stable job.

Hafizah then sentenced her to one day jail and an RM1,000 fine or one month jail if the fine was not paid. Chai paid the fine.

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The detractors of Islam love to talk about hand cutting. They are of course referring to the Islamic Shariah law called Hudud, which deals with seven specific crimes. Hudud, for the uninitiated, is only one of the many Shariah laws. But this appears to be the only Shariah law yet to be introduced in Malaysia. The others are already in place.

Okay, before anyone jumps on my case, let me categorically state that I am opposed to Malaysia being turned into a theocracy. And, no, it is not because I am anti-Islam. It is because Malaysia has a parliamentary system that chooses its government using the Westminster system and therefore that makes Malaysia a secular and not theocratic state.

If they run a referendum and, say, 66.6% of Malaysians vote for the parliamentary system to be abolished and for the Federal Constitution to be amended so that Malaysia can be turned into a theocracy, then I have no problems with that since it represents the wishes of 66.6% of Malaysians. For that matter, if 66.6% of Malaysians pass a referendum to turn Malaysia into a Republic I also would have no problems with that.

Okay, back to the issue of the Star’s news item above. Malaysia is NOT a theocracy, and for sure not an Islamic State. And, therefore, we have common law and not Hudud law. So Chai Suk Yee, the poor pregnant woman in the report above, will not lose her hand for the crime of stealing baby clothes worth RM158. Instead, she goes to jail.

But that is just it. Even if we did have Hudud as the law of the land she would still not be punished anyway. Now, Suk Yee has to go to jail for one day and pay a fine of RM1,000 -- or else go to jail for another month if she fails to pay the fine. Can you imagine a pregnant woman having to go to jail for 31 or 32 days because she was too poor and had no choice but to steal baby clothes?

Under Hudud law, Suk Yee would be asked why she stole. And if the thief is as rich as Daim Zainuddin who steals not because he is poor but because he is just downright greedy, then even I agree that his hand should be chopped off. I mean, RM42 billion of the raykat’s money not enough or what? Still have to steal RM158 baby clothes on top of that?

If Suk Yee is proven to be really poor and needs to steal out of necessity, then the authorities would be summoned to court and would be asked how come Suk Yee is so poor that she needs to steal. Assuming Suk Yee was not getting any aid from the government -- maybe because she is not a Bumiputera and not an Umno member -- then those in charge of dishing out aid would be chided by the court.

The court would order that the state looks after Suk Yee. And if the state fails to do so, then those in charge would face the wrath of the court. Suk Yee would not be punished. The state would. And the state would be punished because it did not look after Suk Yee resulting in her being forced to steal for a living.

That is the other side of Hudud never discussed. Okay, okay, okay, I know. Now some of you are going to argue that Hudud may not be that bad after all but you are more worried about the implementation or abuse of that law. What happens if someone is fixed up and loses a hand because of that? You can’t sew the hand back on.

True. But the same goes for all other ‘less-cruel-than-Hudud’ laws as well. If they plant bullets or drugs in your car and then send you to the gallows for this, can they bring you back to life if later they discover you have been fixed up? Once you are dead you are dead. They cannot reverse your death after hanging you from the gallows even if they find you innocent later.

So it is not about whether Hudud can be abused or not. All laws can be abused. The issue is not only in the laws itself, but also in how they abuse those laws. For that matter, the Internal Security Act, as it was originally intended, is a good law. But the ISA is never used as it was originally intended. It is used to silence dissent and opposition. So we oppose the ISA because it is being abused.

Okay, say the government abolishes the ISA as what we want. Do you think that is the end of our problems? No! There are still many other laws, other than the ISA, which the government can use to stifle dissent and curtail free speech.

More important than abolishing the ISA and all those other laws would be to abolish the present government. Then the laws would not be abused. Then people like Suk Yee would not go to jail because she was too poor and had to steal RM158 worth of baby clothes.

By the way, if anyone can help me track down Suk Yee I would like to reimburse her the fine of RM1,000 that she paid. It is my duty as a Muslim to ensure that poor people do not become victims of a cruel system. Doing otherwise would mean I have failed in my duty as a Muslim. Just drop me a message and I will get back to you.

Comments (84)Add Comment
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written by MasterYoda, April 24, 2009 18:43:52
Hey people,

I might get some scolding here or this posting might be deleted because of it irrelevencey... but we need to laugh....

I am Malay, Chinese, Indian, Kadazan ,Palestine, Jew, Black & White...

So i am posting now i am posting Indian jokes...they are not in anyway demeaning in nature but simple innocent jokes.... more to come...

Boss: Where were you born?
Sardar: India ..
Boss: which part?
Sardar: What 'which part'? Whole body was born in India.

2 sardar were fixing a bomb in a car.
Sardar 1: What would you do if the bomb explodes while fixing.
Sardar 2: Dont worry, I have one more.

Sardar: What is the name of your car?
Lady: I forgot the name, but is starts with 'T'.
Sardar: Oh, what a strange car, starts with tea. All cars that I know start with petrol.

Sardar joined a new job. On the 1st day, he worked till late evening on the computer. The boss was happy and asked what he did.
Sardar: Keyboard alphabets were not in order, so I made it alright.

Museum Administrator: That's a 500-year-old statue u've broken.
Sardar: Thank God! I thought it was a new one.

At the scene of an accident a m an was crying: O God! I have lost my hand, oh!
Sardar: Control yourself. Don't cry. See that man . He has lost his head. Is he crying?

Sardar: U cheated me.
Shopkeeper: No, I sold a good radio to u.
Sardar: Radio label shows 'Made in Japan' but radio says this is 'All India Radio! '

NOW THE LAST TWO ULTIMATE :

In an interview, Interviewer: How does an electric motor run?
Sardar: Dhhuuuurrrrrrrrrr. .....
Inteviewer shouts: Stop it.
Sardar: Dhhuurrrr dhup dhup dhup...

Tourist: Whose skeleton is that?
Sardar: An old king's skeleton..
Tourist: Who's that smaller skeleton next to it?
Sardar: That was same king's skeleton when he was a child
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written by lennonist, April 24, 2009 18:46:27
LOL RPK! I heard a few rascals were looking for you? And yet you have the time to post this commentary! LOL You are the coolest man ever in my books. Your swagger, your confidence, your wit, your smarts, your resolve, your charm, your personality, your sophistication, your sense of right and wrong, your sense of justice, your all around fairness and honesty. But most of all RPK, I love how handsome you are! Keep up the good fight and give it to them bastards!
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written by Toyolbuster, April 24, 2009 18:50:04
Will the law consider cutting off Najis kok for serial khalwat.
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written by LKO, April 24, 2009 18:52:17
RPK,

This exile thing must be driving the government mad. At least you have time to write more good stuff. So far 3 articles in a day.

smilies/wink.gif
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written by temenggong, April 24, 2009 18:56:43
This is getting weird. The police are looking for rpk, and rpk is looking for Suk Yee.

It's best the police look for Suk Yee! smilies/cool.gif
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written by Littlebird, April 24, 2009 18:58:34
..then how do you explain about the hudud law punishment for the 8 year old boy who stole bread in Iran?
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written by pinsysu, April 24, 2009 19:00:11
sad facts of Msian life: real thieves never get punished. stealing from rakyats, stealing state gomen, stealing pretty women ... where the hell is Bala?
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written by yeechut, April 24, 2009 19:02:43
Dear Pete,

Thanks for the beautiful writing. I would like to share with you a beautiful short film on the save subject:

http://humblevoice.********.co...video.html

I think it can make a good theme message for People power.

My prayer is with you.
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written by yeechut, April 24, 2009 19:05:42
I mean "same subject" sorry
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written by joejoe, April 24, 2009 19:06:31
Pete,
How's the weather? Raining again? Blimey.

Interesting isn't it? She had no money to buy the baby's clothes, but yet she had RM1,000 to pay the fine. Did she borrow from Ah Long? Chances are so.
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written by Super Admin, April 24, 2009 19:06:49
Dear temenggong, if you can help me by handing RM1,000 over to Suk Yee I promise I shall make sure you get the money back, with interest. I will be able to find you. Don't ask me how.

Dear Littlebird, (1) that was a video that has yet to be confirmed. (2) Don't confuse tribal laws with Islamic laws. (3) How do you explain the largest democracy in the world having detention without trial laws? Is it democracy or the US government that is at fault?
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written by Pakyeh, April 24, 2009 19:12:00
Dont worry la RPK and friends, we only chop off UMNO peoples' hands.
They already rich and still want to steal rakyat's money.Agree ?.
If in this world they escape in the other world their hands and everything else will be burnt.
Read more "Anda Tempah Tiket ka Neraka" at ..

httP;//warongpakyeh.********.com
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written by Littlebird, April 24, 2009 19:13:05
Dear Super Admin, I agree such punishments not necessarily confined to sharia law only. BUt it does not ecluded the possibilty. And isn't it the largest democracy in the world is India? Ok ..ok...I am just avoiding the real issue....point taken. cheers.
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written by Super Admin, April 24, 2009 19:15:32
Dear Littlebird, I think you are right. And India did have a 'black' President long before the US did.
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written by panca, April 24, 2009 19:20:00
written by Littlebird, April 24, 2009 18:58:34
..then how do you explain about the hudud law punishment for the 8 year old boy who stole bread in Iran?


As explained by admin,yet to be confirmed and if it was tribal laws that was meted out, if it was true we are really sorry for the boys.

How it would have been if the boy was actually young najib they probably thought he was?
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written by arazak, April 24, 2009 19:23:06
It sure is weird. . ., how do you explain a destitute pregnant women stealing for her unborn baby RM158-70 goes to jail/fined RM1,000 and yet those people who stole RM half-billion ringgit from the rakyat under the pretext of commission got away scot-free? To add salt to the wound (as if insulting the rakyat whose money had already been stolen), the thief(ves) are living in luxury in UK.

RPK, wherever you are stay healthy. . ., and cut down on the pipes and cigars! We want you to have a long life!
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written by fairnessforall, April 24, 2009 19:25:14
Whatever hudud laws maybe, in Malaysia boleh, every law is manipulated to benefit UMNO and becomes UMNO law. So even if hudud law is implemented in Malaysia, if the person committing the crime is an opposition supporter, even he may be a hardcore poor, his hand will still be chopped off.

I dont think islam allows underaged children to be converted right, so why does the islamic authorities go arround happily converting children who have not even started talking yet. My point is, no matter what laws we have, makes no difference as long as BN is in Power.

Another point is, this I am not sure, in hudud law, if the person is wrongly accused and his hand gets chopped off, there is no return if he is subsequently found to be not guilty, but in civil law, at least there is a recourse, right?
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written by bengali kunday, April 24, 2009 19:35:15
MasterYoda, you must get your facts right. Sardars are not indians.

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written by Super Admin, April 24, 2009 19:39:23
Dear fairnessforall, not if they hang you for murder, guns, bullets or drugs. There is no recourse when you are dead. And they will not compensate you for jailing you for 10 years and then free you when they discover you were innocent all the while. Malaysia has no compensation system for wrongful detention.

China shoots you for corruption, not cut off your hands. What happens if they find you innocent later and a victim of a frame up? Remove the bullet from your skull and allow you to go home?

Let's face it. The argument against Hudud is that there is no reversal. But that applies to any law, not just Hudud. Give me another argument. That one is worn out already.

Anyway, as was explained, Hudud is not about hand chopping. It is about making sure no poor pregnant woman gets punished because she is poor and had to steal. No one appears interested in this point because it makes Hudud-Islam appear good.
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written by DezMalaysia, April 24, 2009 19:47:03
I agree that the Currupt hands & gatal dicks should be chopped off ! I even agree that those who steal the nation's coffer to be shoot by firing squad !

Hudud or whatever kind of laws, it'll still depend on who runs the show... if it's run by the wicked, no matter how good the laws are, injustice will still occur.

I say it's a war between the good & the evil to seize control of the power. Presently, we have evil devils doing the shows & the good fighting to overthrow those scums !
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written by MasterYoda, April 24, 2009 20:00:40
Bengali Kunday,

how right you are! Sardar is a Persian word.

however, from wikipedia:

In the colonial era, the title Sirdar or Sardar applied to native nobles in British India, e.g. the sirdars of the Deccan. Sirdar Bahadur was an Indian military distinction; and Sirdar was the official title of the commander-in-chief of the Anglo-Egyptian army.
In many Indian languages, Sardar means an army chieftain (who may have been granted a Jagir).

----
Sardar Jokes are very common in India. They are the equivalent of Blonde Jokes in the United States.


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written by hanzz, April 24, 2009 20:08:13
whats the fuss about hudud?...muslims should accept it. to non-muslims; why so fearful?...the law is not for you...you should be happy observing us livin under this strict law...
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written by Kent Tory, April 24, 2009 20:34:02
I'm a non-muslim, and I have absolutely no reservations with various Islamic laws (hudud or otherwise)to be applied in Malaysia along side common laws. However the only most important point to me is that it has to be administered by an absolutely independant judiciary !



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written by justinlian, April 24, 2009 20:38:26
Dear RPK,
Why dont we start up a fund for all these things, Shall we ?
So, at least we can help those in needs.
Like the couple and this too ?
Set up one
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written by ananthprabagar, April 24, 2009 20:38:37
Dear YM RPK, you should be our prime minister... a lot of things need to be corrected. Which none of our current leader can do that including DSAI…I guess.
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written by justinlian, April 24, 2009 20:41:15
I wonder sometimes, where all this cow shit come from.
RPK is looking for Suk yee and you guys dont care and further talk nonsense.
Someone here needs help la.
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written by Kent Tory, April 24, 2009 20:49:49
Dear Hanzz,

I speak for my self.
I am not fearful of Hudud and would be more than happy to see especially our current leaders living under such a law.

However, I think there is some problems in Malaysia when the 2 systems meet on the same case. Currently, there seems to be certain non-muslims whom I believe take advantage of this situation.

Example;
If a non-muslim man and women divorce and the women (most often) gains custody of their child. The man has to convert to Islam, and he will be able to take his non-muslim child over with his deceitful manuverings within the Islamic Legal system.
Then he is free to go away, even move to a different country and live his life as a non-muslim..... just one example .... The other example is related to inheritance... how a deceitful non-muslim will be able to take all inheritance from a dying parent by desiging a way to say that he and his dying parent have converted to Islam..... thereby leaving the rest of the siblings without any inheritance.....

So you, see it is the non-muslims themself that are using this 2 systems to their advantage and indirectly giving Islam a bad image, and creating fear among the non-muslim populace.

Hence, back to the point I made earlier..... it needs "Independent Judiciary" to administer and review situations of abuse...... No interference from Politicians..... because politics will only play to the crowd and not do what is right.

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written by bujangsenang, April 24, 2009 20:53:51
Why people who stole millions got off scott free and someone who stole RM150 of baby clothes got punished?

Its becos the owners took action.

High time we realise that the wealth of the country belongs to us, the rakyat. They who stole the millions should be punished. Take action. We can change the gomen next GE.
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written by BennyG, April 24, 2009 20:57:46
Dear RPK,

We heard all the good things about Islam and PAS from you. We never doubt it.

But with any law including Hudud law and put it under the charge of Umno, any good with it just went out of the window.

In fact, True Muslims should go all out against UMNO being Islam representative coz UMNOputras never practise the way of Islam. UMNO only desecrates a beautiful religion.
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written by inspiron, April 24, 2009 21:02:34
Dear lilbird,I'm no big fan of hudud law but this is what I found from UrbanLegends.com
8-Year-Old Iranian Child Caught Stealing Bread

Comments: The preceding images are apparently authentic -- they were published as such in 2005 on the Iranian news Web site Peyke Iran, at any rate -- but the accompanying caption doesn't jibe with the original report and was clearly fabricated after the fact.

According to a Peyke Iran spokesperson who corrected the record last November in a note posted on Little Green Footballs, the young boy whose arm was run over was not being punished for a crime. He was part of a "Maareke giry" or street magic act and allegedly performed the stunt for money (note the gentleman speaking into a microphone in image #1). The seventh and eighth pictures in the series, which appear to show the child shaken but otherwise unharmed after the ordeal, were omitted from the email flier but can still be viewed on Peykeiran.com (where all the images are attributed to photographer Siamak Yari).


btw RPK, if you manage to track down Suk Yee, can let us know as well, I want to contribute something too. And I'm sure MT readers would chip in as well smilies/wink.gif
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written by gycgocnt, April 24, 2009 21:10:15

Please be noticed! Everybody in Malaysia Today! Still remember yesterday incident while Malaysiakini being made a false report against it by GMP? After GMP admit they make false report, now they turn their gun to Malaysia Today, to us!!!

After I read the news entitled of "Report lodged against website's commentators", I realised immediately that we are "Uneducated Beasts"!, and they wanna "Kick us out of Malaysia!

I am now begging the editor in Malaysia Today write an article about this news. I think all of the Malaysia Today reader have so much comment to this news!

We should show GMP that "Uneducated Beasts" are better educated than them. And the people who suppose to leave this country is GMP, not the "Uneducated Beasts"!
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written by temenggong, April 24, 2009 21:12:40
Dear temenggong, if you can help me by handing RM1,000 over to Suk Yee I promise I shall make sure you get the money back, with interest. I will be able to find you. Don't ask me how.


Can! Money is ready. Call me. You have my number.
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written by Super Admin, April 24, 2009 21:21:46
Children, children, children, stop arguing. The point is, if Suk Yee is REALLY poor, as what Star reported, then she should NOT be punished. Even the 'cruel' and 'barbaric' Hudud law will not punish her (note the ' marks). So I want to reimburse her the RM1,000 fine she paid because she stole out of need, not out of greed, and it is my Islamic duty to help those in need. That, and only that, is the issue. And once Temenggong has given her the money, e-mail me and I shall arrange a reimbursement.

Close case on the issue.
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written by NIDZOM, April 24, 2009 21:26:38
change government to a more better one then any ruling i will follow. no hal. i agree its not the law but those who decides what and which law should be changed. for example, i sreiously doubt that lim guan eng as the pm would ever abuse the ISA even if there are no changes that can be amended in the ruling book smilies/wink.gif bro pete i pray for you to have more patience, strength, and mercy from allah s.w.t always consistently.Amin.
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written by Kathy, April 24, 2009 21:31:41
Carry on writing, RPK, wherever you are. Must be some place nice, plus you don't have to look over your shoulders every now and again?

Take care, keep well and enjoy your cigars.
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written by lynn, April 24, 2009 21:53:45
MasterYoda's jokes were merely jokes from India.
No need to get offended by *****ing disagree.

There are a million things far worst in Bodohland than any of those jokes.

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written by talk2stop, April 24, 2009 22:05:57
ISA or Huddud law are not dangerous. It is how you enforce them that make in lethal.
Malaysians are funny people. They worried about the gun rather than the person that holding the gun.
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written by wongnoball, April 24, 2009 22:37:30
Dear RPK,

Do you know what is RM 42 billions ????
It can build 1.4 millions low-cost units for the poor.
Is your figure really correct ?????

smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif
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written by animal, April 24, 2009 22:45:57
am glad that RPK posting his many comments here,
it shown he still alive & roaring as usual,
anyway most of the law created tailor for the govt of the day..as they deem right,
like in malaysia as UMNO deem necessary for their survival..not the rakyat
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written by miwaki, April 24, 2009 23:06:03
The more I read RPK's articles,the more I think of Confucion and his teaching.Great men think alike.
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written by smalluncle, April 24, 2009 23:26:14
Dear Pete,

Are you writing from the little pit that Saddam has been hiding? I guess the internet reception must be excellenct at where you are.

Enjoy reading and writing. And take K. smilies/wink.gif
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written by cruzeiro, April 24, 2009 23:28:00
Anyways - I think the sardar jokes were good .... smilies/wink.gif
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written by JaguhKampung, April 24, 2009 23:41:08
I heard that a rape victim needs four witnesses as prove that he/she had been raped. Is that true? Is that Hudud?
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written by MasterYoda, April 25, 2009 00:00:03
wow what feedback.... i dont want jump to conclusions....

but it seems thata certain community of people reading the jokes i posted are offended....

i cant seem to figure who there are... but wild guess would have me think, these offended one have feelings for India... i guess...

Looks like a certain type of people reading here have a lot mentality renewing to do... if they want be considered BANGSA MALAYSIA.. huh RPK?
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written by MasterYoda, April 25, 2009 00:00:58
when i posted Ah beng jokes... there were a handful of offended...
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written by seeker, April 25, 2009 00:35:38
rape mana pulak 4 saksi. 4 saksi tu untuk perzinaan.
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written by Raja Petra, April 25, 2009 01:19:04
cruzeiro, don't try to suggest I said what I did not say. That's the trouble with people who hate Islam so much. They see what they think they see even when there is nothing there; mere mirages. That is called buta hati.
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written by AsamLaksa, April 25, 2009 01:29:04
I am opposed to hand chopping. I am also opposed to hanging and whipping. I am opposed to any death penalty and direct physical injury as punishment. There are better ways to rehabilitate and punish offenders.

In Suk Yee's case I think it is excessive. I do not know if there was any plea bargaining involved which could have a smaller fine. Everything has to be proportionate. If she is a first time offender, regardless if she is rich or poor, I think a suspended sentence without a fine is good enough. That RM1000 could be better used to help raise the child.

I asked many times, what do you want your criminal justice system to do for you? For me, I want more rehabilitation than punishment, especially in the case of minor offences.
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written by Daryl, April 25, 2009 02:22:31
I wonder what is the state government going to do with this. They are for change right or maybe just different cronies getting richer now. People like Suk Yee's are not being help but punished instead. Isn't this state have 1000 people storming the police station recently.
On Hudud law I really don't care if it is for Muslims only. As long as non-Muslims are not judge under it or Muslim use hudud as a way out when in dispute with non-Muslim. However, we need to take Islam out of the political posts because there are more qualified people that can take care of religious matter. Post like Chief Minister, MB or PM should not be tied to religion and they should not make decision on religious matters.
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written by ultraman_dyna, April 25, 2009 05:43:12
Yo littlebird..

Iran is a Syiah Country..
They have weird interpretation of Islam..
U can get married for 1 month/1 year/2 years etc..
So old dudes dont have to boink whores..
They marry them instead..
Its like signing a broadband contract..
Heck broadband contract is 12 months..
I watch it on Nat Geo UK..
An undercover journalist from US..
Some men treat women like shit..
That's not how muslim men roll in Malaysia..
I know its a bit confusing since Iran say they are an Islamic Republic..
Hell its like UMNO's Hadari man..
Follow wat eva suits..
Alter a bit here a bit there if its not UMNO's taste..
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written by MsiaCTzen, April 25, 2009 07:58:16
Hey.MasterYoda...can you repost the Ah beng jokes...thanks for brightening my days 2day.
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written by malaysianohope, April 25, 2009 08:19:44
Pete,
To be even handed about what is good and bad about Hudud perhaps we could have the middle ground and coin it 'Allah Huduh' as against the extreme version 'Taliban Hudud'. By doing so those Muslims who felt threatened can spell out what the Koran actually wants from a Muslim. Otherwise we can argue till End-Time and still not resolve its interpretation.
As for the RM1,000 fine I suggest we chip in to help Suk Yee to show that we care since Pete is already penniless... you know he's already declared bankrupt!!! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Proarte, April 25, 2009 09:13:53
If she had RM1000 to pay the fine, it makes one wonder whether she really needed to steal in the 1st place.

If some good Samaritan helped her, then there is no need to give her money. We should not be seen to be rewarding crime.

Raja Petra seems to be more in need for financial aid than Suk Yee. He owes millions and is a bankrupt. smilies/grin.gif
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written by teohpg, April 25, 2009 09:23:17
please also pay for the RM158 clothes...
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written by gycgocnt, April 25, 2009 09:52:27
If Rakyat stole or robbling, it's mean the people don't have ability to buy food....

If Rakyat sleep beside street, it's mean the people don't have ability to live comfort...........

If Rakyat vent of feeling by demonstration, it's mean not a single authority can help them to solve their problem.....

If Rakyat did all the way above, it's mean the Government Is Useless!!!!!!!!
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written by charcoy feng, April 25, 2009 10:12:21
Abang Pete, I understand you....

Some people just don't seem to connect.

Enough said, hopefully understood....
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 10:46:05


Okay, before anyone jumps on my case, let me categorically state that I am opposed to Malaysia being turned into a theocracy. And, no, it is not because I am anti-Islam. It is because Malaysia has a parliamentary system that chooses its government using the Westminster system and therefore that makes Malaysia a secular and not theocratic state.


Dude, how many times i have to tell u. Islamic state is not a theocracy.
Theocracy is shirk and kufr in Islam.

Everyone in islam is answarable. No one is infallible
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written by Apek, April 25, 2009 10:48:24
Dear Pete, you find her, I will help pay half the amount. And if Temenggong finds her, I'll pay the interest at the Bank rates of borrowing too.

When the state fails its people, then the people go hungry in the streets. We have to help each other get by now. The government is only interested in helping themselves.
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 10:48:47

And, syariah laws will punish Daim Zainuddin for "Hirabah" (Higwhway Robbery) and not "Sariqah" (Stealing) which carries the punishment of having his right hands and left leg chopped off and crucified to his death.

RM42 billion of the people's money can never be stealing. No way.

It's highway robbery.

Incidently, in the time of the Prophet, despite not having Highway patrols on fast cars, the laws of Hirabah managed to keep the desert ways between major cities in Jazirah Arabia safe.
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 10:50:05
Not to mention "khadaf" because he orchastrated the false accusation of Anwar Ibrahim sodomy.

Which also carries the punishment of 80 lashes in public
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written by temenggong, April 25, 2009 10:55:40
Dude, how many times i have to tell u. Islamic state is not a theocracy. Theocracy is shirk and kufr in Islam.


Explain! Write an article.
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written by bakas, April 25, 2009 10:59:42
Dear RPK,

Hope you are fine, wherever you may be smilies/smiley.gif

Just want to highlight a few things on the Hudud issue and why I think it's 'not' implementable in Malaysia.

One, there are still bigots and racists in PR. I know you might say that BN/UMNO is worse, but some of the noises coming out from their reps in the past worries me. Are they laying low and hide their claws when they don't yet have the power? What happens when they do get the mandate from the rakyat? Obviously power can change your character and personality. Personally, I think this is just politicians bullshit. I don't trust any people in Malaysia nowadays, who can really carry this law based on the real interpretation in Islam. I mean, come on, you cannot even uphold the civil law in Malaysia, what hope can you have or what guarantee can you give that the Hudud won't be the same?

Two, coming back to your point regarding the abuse of laws. You wrote:

True. But the same goes for all other ‘less-cruel-than-Hudud’ laws as well. If they plant bullets or drugs in your car and then send you to the gallows for this, can they bring you back to life if later they discover you have been fixed up? Once you are dead you are dead. They cannot reverse your death after hanging you from the gallows even if they find you innocent later.



I think majority of Malaysians would rather lose their life under the gallows under false accusation, then to lose their limbs and being branded a thief all their lives on the same false charge in Hudud. I mean, you lose your reputation man! Will the government be able to restore your good name? Will they apologize to you and make sure that whatever that's 'lost' will be given back to you proportionately?

My third point concerns the separation of powers between the courts and the goverment. I don't think many Malaysians would disagree with me, that this is the hardest part of all. Again, I quote your line of posting:

The court would order that the state looks after Suk Yee. And if the state fails to do so, then those in charge would face the wrath of the court. Suk Yee would not be punished. The state would. And the state would be punished because it did not look after Suk Yee resulting in her being forced to steal for a living.


Are you even remotely sure that the court 'can' do this? I mean, if the court under BN goverment cannot even 'ensure' that you get a fair trial, do you think that a Hudud court under PR goverment cannot do the same? The government will always be able to do anything, and I mean anything they want, because they ARE the government.

I am a sceptic on this issue. I don't think that it can be implemented at all. So, it's best that we look on the things that can be rectified immediately, which is the plight of the hardcore poor and the underprivileged rakyat.

Cheers RPK. And may this comment find you in good health.

Peace to all smilies/grin.gif
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written by ASK4u, April 25, 2009 11:05:20
Pity the poor woman. Why don't Jusco consider the circumstances that leads to the poor woman stealing? Would Jusco do the same if this same woman had stolen some food and ate it in their premises. Simple, just boycott hypermarkets that don't have a heart for poor people. On another note, there was another very disturbing incident aired in TV3 or NTV7, a month back or so. Another pregnant woman was imprisoned for a couple of months, 5/6 months or so, for being in possession of illegal VCD's and/or DVD's. She will have to give birth while being in detention. Tell me, how many people are not in possession of illegal VCDs or DVD's? Why, this poor woman? Severe divine retribution will fall upon all the perpetrators of injustice and to those who profess selective prosecutions. smilies/angry.gif
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written by cruzeiro, April 25, 2009 11:12:12
Look here Pete,
Nothing was ever said about Islam in my earlier comment - you only presumed so.
Nor did I pass any judgement on Hudud - like I said, "Any Law is only as good as those people who wield the power to interpret it and mete out "Justice".
Mind you I also said specifically that "The issue here isn't Hudud".
I only questioned the credibility of these who represent these systems you speak of - I never touched on "Islam per se".

In fact I even said that Syariah judges should be able to see the "reasoning" that I was trying to make, and might be in agreement that she did wrong.
I simply don't see your logic in trying to use Islam/Hudud to imply that the judge erred in the decision to punish someone who "STOLE" more than she needed - that too, when she had the means (personally or through charity) to pay a fine to stay out of prison.

So what gives you the right to say that I'm "buta hati" and "hate Islam"?
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written by son of soil, April 25, 2009 11:19:28
As I have said before, if you steal milk powder for your hungry kids...you are sent to jail but if you are convicted of corruption aka money politics...your are given mentri Besar post......"long live Malaysian Law"
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 12:24:34
written by temenggong, April 25, 2009 10:55:40

Dude, how many times i have to tell u. Islamic state is not a theocracy. Theocracy is shirk and kufr in Islam.

Explain! Write an article.


Walla

http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2...ocate.html
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 12:27:33
More links on Islamic State and Theocracy:

http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2...ed-or.html

http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2...-rule.html
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 12:28:59
woops some more

http://www.nytimes. com/2008/ ...ref=slogin
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 12:30:59


except in Hudud, it's "beyond any shadow of doubt"

In civil law, it's only "beyond any reasonable doubt"

Finding something in your possesion is not a strong enough ground to have someone subjected to Hudud.

There must be "witnesses" and not just one but two of impeccable character.
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written by cabearth, April 25, 2009 12:32:41

True. But the same goes for all other ‘less-cruel-than-Hudud’ laws as well. If they plant bullets or drugs in your car and then send you to the gallows for this, can they bring you back to life if later they discover you have been fixed up? Once you are dead you are dead. They cannot reverse your death after hanging you from the gallows even if they find you innocent later.



I think majority of Malaysians would rather lose their life under the gallows under false accusation, then to lose their limbs and being branded a thief all their lives on the same false charge in Hudud. I mean, you lose your reputation man! Will the government be able to restore your good name? Will they apologize to you and make sure that whatever that's 'lost' will be given back to you proportionately?


except in Hudud, it's "beyond any shadow of doubt"

In civil law, it's only "beyond any reasonable doubt"

Finding something in your possesion is not a strong enough ground to have someone subjected to Hudud.

There must be "witnesses" and not just one but two of impeccable character.
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written by KM Wong, April 25, 2009 12:45:51
Yes, India the largest democracy in the world does have its version of Malaysia's ISA. It must have been courtesy of the British too. Recently Varun Ghandhi was charged and locked up under that law I think as he had said he would chop off the heads of Muslims in one of his election speeches.
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written by KM Wong, April 25, 2009 12:50:48
Maybe MT might want to start a small fund for Suk Yee in light of her predicament. But the trouble is where do we start and where do we stop. There must be countless number of people out there who needs help. This is where the state or federal govt has failed in their promise to eradicate poverty. Instead they are enriching their inner circle. Imagine what the amount spent on one of Bastard Toyo's "educational" trips could do to the poor.
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written by teo siew chin, April 25, 2009 21:56:42
YM RPK is such a kind soul becos he is basically a decent honourable man - his decency reflects well on his religion which so happens to be Islam.
His cause to fight corruption and injustice to the extent that he sacrificies his freedom and the comforts of life are ACTIONS and not just cheap talk that make hypocrites of many so-called religious people.
And his fight thus far did not result in loss of even one drop of blood.
But he has shed many a tear for sure.
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written by batsman, April 26, 2009 13:47:52
Capitalism puts property above humans. Islam as well as most other religions puts humans above property. UMNO is pure capitalist. It uses Islam only as a cover to fool people.
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written by wildbil, April 26, 2009 14:26:10
RPK, how sure are you Suk Yee is not going to be chop is Hudud law is applied? We understand you interpretation, that's you. But if others are trying to implement the Hudud, that is another story by itself.

Still remember the photo from middle east, a few years old child was steal some food because he was hungry, look what happened to him? His hand was run-over by truck.

There is still too much room for anyone to interpret the actual implementation of the Hudud law.

AND for once, I am a non-muslim, why I have to confine to the Islamic law?

Believe in one religion is between him and his maker, it's personal. No law should impose to anyone just because of his religion believe, period.
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written by Anti Relon, April 26, 2009 15:42:51
The King and Queen of Malaysia visited London recently (Feb 2009)and they spent thousands of ringgits of the people'e money. For what? Nothing achieved. If the public had any any knowledge..... That is another story.
Malaysia is on a ego trip.

Do readers remember a story some months ago. A school girl had to steal food from her classmates because she had no food at home (think her stpmother refused to feed her. RPK take up this issue.

Sometime ago this happened in Kedah or Perlis. Two young shcool chilren had to cross a small river. For a bridge there was a coconut trunk. They slipped and fell down and died. The top brass said they could not build a bridge as they had no money.

In Sabah or Sarawak a school girl had only one uniform and shoes, so she had to wear it every day, until her mates complained. What is the education department doing?

The country needs to care for these young people.

Instead of the King and Queen shooting off for overseas trip whneever they wish.
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written by Milo, April 27, 2009 00:36:30
Interesting latest post in Youtube on 'Why We Believe in Gods' by Andy Thomson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg
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written by AngryTaxpayer, April 27, 2009 16:03:48
Isn't it sad that we are seeing more and more mothers resorting to crime becos they are too poor? I remember reading about another young mother who had to prostitue herself to put food on the table.

What's happening to all the husbands anyway???
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written by jaafartm, April 28, 2009 17:30:19
Do you know that UMNO means:
U=Untok , M=Masuk , N=Neraka , O=Oi !
Join it and kill one another to get up the ladder and then be the biggest plunderer of people rights and money. But UMNO is going to bungkus soon. Mr C4 pun dah sesak nafas nak kelentong orang tapi orang dah tak pandang melainkan pencacai najis BN!
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written by jaafartm, April 28, 2009 17:42:48
Kebanyakan orang (Raja2 , Politikus2, Pegawai Atasan Kjaan dan Peniaga2) banyak tak sedar diri. Tidak turun kedaratan melihat keadaan orang2 miskin. Mereka leka dengan wang dan harta mewah, foya2 dengan gelaran masing, makan banyak dan lazat2. Tunggulah bila malaikat maut sampai baru mereka akan tau. Mereka akan minta dari Tuhan untok balik kedunia nak buat kebajikan. Dah lewat! Sekarang kebaskah puas2 dari usaha titih peluh kami. Tahukah kamu apa makna "infinity"? Kamu akan hidup melarat merana kesakitan sampai bila2 dineraka nanti. Kebaslah kebaslah...
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