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The stupidity of some Malay Muslims PDF Print
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Friday, 27 February 2009 16:22

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Some Malays, PKR and PAS Malays included, are very narrow-minded and ignorant. And this is because they recite the Quran like parrots without understanding what they are reciting -- mainly because they do not speak the language of the Quran.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Herald editor says ban on ‘Allah’ lifted with conditions

A church official says the government has lifted a ban on the use of the word "Allah" by Christian publications.

Rev. Lawrence Andrew, the editor of the Catholic Church's Herald newspaper, said today the Home Ministry is allowing the publications use "Allah" to refer to God as long as they state that the material is only meant for Christians.

The controversy first broke out in late 2007 when the government banned the use of “Allah” in Christian Malay-language texts because it allegedly might confuse Muslims.

The Herald has challenged the ban in court and argued the Arabic word is a common reference for God that predates Islam and has been used for centuries as a translation in Malay. — AP, 26 Feb 2009

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The High Court has set May 28 for hearing in the suit taken by the Catholic Church against the home minister and the federal government in which the church does not want any parties to intervene in its case over the use of the word "Allah".

Justice Lau Bee Lan, of the Appellate and Special Powers Division, also set July 7 to hear the arguments by several state Islamic councils to transfer the case to the Federal Court. — The Malaysian Insider, 27 Feb 2009

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On 16 February 2009, the Home Minister, Syed Hamid Albar, signed a gazette known as Gazette PU A 62 under section 22 (1)(c) of the Internal Security Act 1969 -- titled Internal Security (Prohibition On Use of Specific Words on Document and Publication) Order 2009.

The gazette states as follows: Prohibition on use of specific words on document and publication 2. (1) The printing, publication, sale, issue, circulation and possession of any document and publication relating to Christianity containing the words “Allah”, “Kaabah”, “Baitullah” and “Solat” are prohibited unless on the front cover of the document and publication are written with the words “For Christianity”.

(2) The words “For Christianity” referred to in subparagraph (1) shall be written clearly in font type Arial of size 16 in bold.

A spokesman from the publication and Quranic text division of the Ministry said he was unaware of the gazette and would check with its legal division. A Christian church leader said this matter should first be discussed before made into law, as the churches are not even aware of this new ruling.

He expressed surprise that this new gazette has prematurely come into force when there are two cases before the courts to argue the constitutionality of the earlier prohibition by the ministry. The Catholic Church is suing the government over its insistence that they cannot use the Allah word in the Bahasa Malaysia section of their weekly publication.

The Sidang Injil Borneo Sabah (Evangelical Church) is also suing the government over confiscation of their Christian publications imported from Indonesia, which contain the word Allah.

Previously, the Home Ministry, in an out of court negotiation, had suggested that churches stamp the word “For Christians Only” on the Al Kitab and their Bahasa Malaysia publications. But this was not acceptable to the churches, which had counter-offered with the phrase “This is a Christian Publication.” The Ministry, however, rejected this counter-proposal.

PKR’s Member of Parliament for Bandar Baharu Kulim, Zulkifli Nordin, is also up in arms about the matter. And this is his response to the matter:

“Have they referred to the related decree? The ministry should not compromise on this matter. We should look at the social context where the word is used by the Malay Muslims in the country, what is the reason behind their insistence on using ‘Allah’. I am worried that the word ‘Allah’ was used with the aim to confuse the Muslims. Does God’s name follow the race or language? I have no problem with the use of the Malay language, but by using the word ‘Allah’ to refer to God, it made the Muslims unhappy, I have met a lot of them who told me this.”

Were you aware that it is a crime for non-Muslims to greet Muslims with the phrase ‘Assalamu Alaikum’? It is also a crime for non-Muslims to use words such as insha-Allah, masha-Allah, Alhamdulillah, and so on. There are about half a dozen ‘banned’ words that non-Muslims may not use in their daily communication, basically all words that contain the word ‘Allah’.

About twenty or so years ago, the MCA chief for Kuala Terengganu, Wong, would speak to his Malay friends as if he was a Muslim. If you had your back to him when he spoke you would have thought that a Malay was speaking. Imagine your surprise when you turn around to find a Chinaman speaking better than even Malays could.

Wong was very free with words like insha-Allah, Alhamdulillah, masha-Allah, etc. And the Terengganu Malays loved him for that. When he contested the Kuala Terengganu state seat in the 1990 general election, he lost to the PAS candidate, Ustaz Haji Harun Jusoh. Wong won all the Malay votes at Losong and Pulau Kambing. However, he lost the Chinese votes from Kampong Cina who voted for Ustaz Harun.

Malays like to call Chinese Muslims mualap (mualaf). When I went to China more than 15 years ago I visited the oldest mosque in China. It was at Kwangchow (Canton) and was built 100 years after Prophet Muhammad’s time. That’s right, the Chinese were Muslims 700 or 800 years before the Malays and when the Malays were still Hindus, Buddhists, tree worshippers, and so on.  But only the Malays are true Muslims while the Chinese are mualaps.

I met the Imam of the Kwangchow mosque and he spoke to me in Arabic. I replied, “Mafi kalam Arabi.” He was surprised because I just did my prayers in the mosque, which he assumed I would have performed in Arabic.

“You don’t speak Arabic?”

“No,” I replied.

“You can read the Quran?”

“Yes,” I replied.

“You can read the Quran but you can’t speak Arabic? How do you do that?”

“I recite only, not read.”

“So you can’t understand what you recite?”

“No,” I replied.

“What kind of Muslim are you? You recite the Quran but can’t understand what you are reciting.”

“Well, I am the same as 99% other Muslims in Malaysia. We all don’t speak Arabic and can’t understand what we are reciting.”

The Imam shook his head and went off to pray for God to have mercy on me -- and the 99% other Malay Muslims in Malaysia.

What’s all this brouhaha about the word Allah in the Malay language translation of the Bible? First, take a look at this:

[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]
"In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible]


[John 3:16 - English Bible - King James Version]
"For God so loved the world, that . . . "

[John 3:16 - Arabic transliteration]
"Li-annhu haakadha ahabba Allahu al-'Aalama hataa badhala . . . "

[John 3:16 - Arabic Bible]


[Luke 1:30 - English Bible - King James Version]
" . . . Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God."

[Luke 1:30 - Arabic transliteration]
" . . . Laa takhaafee, yaa Maryam, li-annaki qad wajadti ni'amat(an) i'nda Allahi."

[Luke 1:30 - Arabic Bible]


[Luke 3:38 - English Bible - New King James Version]
"the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

[Luke 3:38 - Arabic transliteration]
"bini Anoosha, bini Sheeti, bini Aaadama, abni Allahi."

[Luke 3:38 - Arabic Bible]


The word Allah is already in the Bible. It is exactly the same word that the Jews, in Hebrew, use for God (eloh), the word that Jesus Christ used in Aramaic when he prayed to God. In Hebrew, Huwa el Elah or HUWA 'L LAH means HE IS ALLAH in the verse QUL HUWAL LAH HU AHAD.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” said Jesus on the cross. In Aramaic this is: "Eli, Eli, l'mana Sabachtani?"

The words El, Elah and Elohim are not three distinctly different words. They all represent the single Arabic word, Allah, which is also the same in Hebrew.

No, Islam does not have monopoly over the use of the word Allah. The Christians and Jews too use this same word. In fact, the biggest ‘selling point’ for Islam is that the Quran recognises all the Prophets of the Jews and Christians and that we all pray to the same ONE God, Allah. If the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same one God, would not then the name of this God also be the same? How can the name of the Muslim God be different from that of the Jews and Christians if we all pray to the same one God?

Some Malays, PKR and PAS Malays included, are very narrow-minded and ignorant. And this is because they recite the Quran like parrots without understanding what they are reciting -- mainly because they do not speak the language of the Quran. And, for sure, they do not read any of the Holy Books of the other religions because they are of the opinion that it is forbidden (haram) to do so. It is said that even Prophet Muhammad sought advice from his wife’s, Khatijah’s cousin, Warakah, a learned Christian scholar of his time, though some scholars refute this (but they do admit that Warakah was a Christian who attended Prophet Muhammad’s and Khatijah’s wedding).

And Prophet Muhammad never prohibited the Jews and Christians from using the word Allah. But then Malays think they are better Muslims and more learned than the Arabs even though Malays recite the Quran without understanding what they are reciting -- unlike the Chinese Muslims in China. And what are 16 million Malay Muslims compared to the more than 100 million in China, the mualaps, as the Malays would call them, who have been Muslims since 1,300 years ago when Malays were still praying to trees and whatnot.

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written by shissun, February 27, 2009 16:38:27
Bro,

All the while, you guys using religion to gain the authority to rule this land like katak bawah tempurung. I am sure you guys will hit hard once exposed to the outside world.
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written by OVERLORD, February 27, 2009 16:43:08
The Malaysian govt is setting a world's first by trying to copyright the universal word of "Allah"...The word existed in ancient Aramaic and the Hebrew bible...even the Pagan Pre-arabic uses the word.....what would be hilarious if christians started cpoyrighting the word "GOD".....If PR were to perform some house cleaning, I suggest they start with this Zulkifli bloke....
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written by JC Tan, February 27, 2009 16:47:18
the religion vs the human interpretation of the religion....
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written by dusunbukit, February 27, 2009 16:51:21
someone e-mailed this to me - it's well written. What can I say?

From the heart of a Muslim - Tawfik Hamid

I was born a Muslim and lived all my life as a follower of Islam. After the barbaric terrorist attacks done by the hands of my fellow Muslims everywhere on this globe, and after the too many violent acts by Islamists in many parts of the world, I feel responsible as a Muslim and as a human being, to speak out and tell the truth to protect the world and Muslims as well from a coming catastrophe and war of civilizations.

I have to admit that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward Non-Muslims. We Muslims are the ones who need to change. Until now we have accepted polygamy, the beating of women by men, and killing those who convert from Islam to other religions.

We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery or wars, to spread our religion and to subjugate others to Islam and force them to pay a humiliating tax called Jizia. We ask others to respect our religion while all the time we curse non-Muslims loudly (in Arabic) in our Friday prayers in the Mosques.

What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "Descendants of the pigs and monkeys"…. Is this a message of love and peace, or a message of hate?

I have been into churches and synagogues where they were praying for Muslims. While all the time we curse them, and teach our generations to call them infidels, and to hate them.

We immediately jump in a 'knee jerk reflex' to defend Prophet Mohammed when someone accuses him of being a pedophile while, at the same time, we are proud with the story in our Islamic books, that he married a young girl seven years old (Aisha) when he was above 50 years old.

I am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks.

Muslims denounce these attacks to look good in front of the media, but we condone the Islamic terrorists and sympathise with their cause. Till now our 'reputable' top religious authorities have never issued a Fatwa or religious statement to proclaim Bin Laden as an apostate, while an author, like Rushdie, was declared an apostate who should be killed according to Islamic Shariia law just for writing a book criticizing Islam.

Muslims demonstrated to get more religious rights as we did in France to stop the ban on the Hejab (Head Scarf), while we did not demonstrate with such passion and in such numbers against the terrorist murders.

It is our absolute silence against the terrorists that gives the energy to these terrorists to continue doing their evil acts. We Muslims need to stop blaming our problems on others or on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. As a matter of honesty, Israel is the only light of democracy, civilization, and human rights in the whole Middle East.

We kicked out the Jews with no compensation or mercy from most of the Arab countries to make them "Jews-Free countries" while Israel accepted more than a million Arabs to live there, have its nationality, and enjoy their rights as human beings. In Israel, women can not be beaten legally by men, and any person can change his/her belief system with no fear of being killed by the Islamic law of 'Apostasy,' while in our Islamic world people do not enjoy any of these rights. I agree that the 'Palestinians' suffer, but they suffer because of their corrupt leaders and not because of Israel.

It is not common to see Arabs who live in Israel leaving to live in the Arab world. On the other hand, we used to see thousands of Palestinians going to work with happiness in Israel, its 'enemy'. If Israel treats Arabs badly as some people claim, surely we would have seen the opposite happening.

We Muslims need to admit our problems and face them. Only then we can treat them and start a new era to live in harmony with human mankind. Our religious leaders have to show a clear and very strong stand against polygamy, pedophilia, slavery, killing those who convert from Islam to other religions, beating of women by men, and declaring wars on non-Muslims to spread Islam. Then, and only then, do we have the right to ask others to respect our religion. The time has come to stop our hypocrisy and say it openly: 'We Muslims have to Change'.

Tawfik Hamid
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written by educationist, February 27, 2009 16:53:15
As usual RPK, you have explained very clearly and precisely what stupidity of some of those Muslims are.
But, sadly i am sure , even if they read your very sound arguments, they will not change their position.
They are bigots and intolerant fools who think they know everything.
One very good example is the one heading the Home Ministry now.
Frightening, isn't it the quality of our leaders!!
But, by the way our PM and DPM are also Muslims. Where are they, I wonder?
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written by Horizonline, February 27, 2009 16:54:27
well some people do admit that they are more arab than arabs... they foaming in their mouth about protecting their relegion but failed to know the true meaning of their own holy book. pathetic
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written by Super Admin, February 27, 2009 16:54:45
shissun, I thought some of you took RPK to task for 'generalising'?
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written by xavica01, February 27, 2009 16:55:11
What's in a word? Call it whatever you want...all God are the same. We all pray to the same God. If only people can grasp that...
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written by Democrats, February 27, 2009 16:55:35
Good article Pete.

It never seem to amaze me why do these so called Muslim leaders put so little faith in their own followers thinking that a simple word could easily sway the minds of the their followers since the day they are born?

And I am always so dumbfounded why they feel they are bigger than god or prophet Muhammad that they took it upon themselves (on the assumption that god or the prophet need their protection from the slander and criticism of other) to take action against the offenders?

BTW Pete, your title of your article was somewhat confusing at first. I thought it would be a UMNo youth bashing article on they way they attacked an OKU like Karpal.

Cheers Pete, Have a great weekend.


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written by sactyr, February 27, 2009 16:55:57
"That’s right, the Chinese were Muslims 700 or 800 years before the Malays and when the Malays were still Hindus, Buddhists, tree worshippers, and so on..."

Pete, I can tell you that our History books in schools have deleted the fact that Malays were Hindus or Buddhists etc before the arrival of Islam. I still wonder what religion did Parameswara practise (who is from Sri Vijaya anyways)..
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written by borneoman, February 27, 2009 16:56:19
i wish all malaysian muslim and even muslim through out the world think like you RPK.
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written by Jan, February 27, 2009 17:02:38
Some of these leaders being muslims want to be seen as defenders of their faith. Once you are recognised as a defender of your faith you tend to get more support from the muslim masses. So they will do anything to portray as such.
Nothing wrong with that except these leaders are also voted in by non muslims who want leaders who will be leaders of all people not just muslims. This is something Zulkifli Nordin seem not to understand.
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written by Motherchell, February 27, 2009 17:02:56
THE ONLY TRUE MUSLIM IN MALAYSIA. A MAN , even GOD has given up ON!



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written by borneoman, February 27, 2009 17:03:44
you are absolutely right mr.Taufik.i am going to bed tonight with a real peace of mind knowing that people like your good self and RPK are around.
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written by IbnAbdHalim, February 27, 2009 17:08:31
Salam Pete,

Very true indeed. Recently I had an argument with my brother-in-law over the use of Allah and the muslim greetings by non-muslims. Can't blame him 'cause he's a typical UMNO and didn't attend religious classes formally just like the majority of us. Coming back to the Malays in general what you wrote is true. Most of them will go mad against non-muslims regarding the issue. YAB Lim Guan Eng was slammed in and out for using the salam as a greeting. He was slammed because he entered mosques on many occasions. That what he did is unacceptable to the muslim Malays be they UMNO, PAS or PKR.

On another note, I just wondered what had actually bitten our MP from Kulim Bandar Bahru. I suggest that he should take a sabbatical leave and enroll in a religious class and really study Islam from top to bottom. If an ustaz too can be confused in this issue what will stop him from being a reluctant victim?
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written by OVERLORD, February 27, 2009 17:08:58
I have no problem with Christians using "Allah" in their Al Kitab, as long as they mean "Allah the one and only" i.e. La Illaha Illallah (no other god except Allah). Trouble is, Christians regard Jesus (a.s.) as son of god and, in the last number of years, they've elevated Jesus to god. So, I'm puzzled why Christians in Malaysia can't use the Malay translation of god - "Tuhan" in their Malay translated bible? Can someone explain please?
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my oumrie,

For Catholics, God consist of the Holy Trinity which is God the father, the Son and the Holy spirit akin to what can be described as "3 in one" Jesus wasn't elevated to "God" by the way...he is "part" of God....I will not go into detail of my explanation because i'am not a theologian myself...Perhaps others can enlighthen us....
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written by mykantree, February 27, 2009 17:21:06
Dear Pete,

I think you have pointed out some glaring truths which many muslim malays are, while more than likely loath to agree, but is very guilty of. In Malaysia, we are witness to lots of evidence that there are many muslim malays who more muslim Arabs than the Arab muslims themselves.If I am not mistaken, this is something which your goodself did write about before.

What the current government is trying to impose on the The Herald, cannot but be seen as prosecution of the Christian faith, and their followers.It is only when a legal challenge is made against it that the government start to back pedal, but at the same time continue to impose new restriction to it.By

At the same time I wonder why Muslims in this country itself allow the government to heap insults on them by insisting that they are so ignorant that they can be confused by the use of some arabic words by some other religion.Are muslim Malays really this ignorant?
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written by best4rakyat, February 27, 2009 17:21:23
Not only that so...but it has happened to cross the fence too in Democracy!
Come in with word "childish" and shouting in Parliament we hear "aku ni pemuda UMNO, tau kah?"
What right they have as street fighter intrude our Parliament? Tak dah shout back of saya ni "Ahli Parlimen"!
We really hope a drastic action on those as a lesson to all here. They mean "violent" to Malaysia and world to see.
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written by Limang, February 27, 2009 17:23:45
Muslims everywhere are making their religion more weak, violent and despised that clouded the beauty of many of its teaching.

Perhaps what the Qu'ran says is true: that Allah (God)has an appointed time for each community and nation and when the time comes, He remove them and their power.

Such is the fate of Islam and Muslims - that from the height of glory, they are, since a century ago, represents the most backward, weakest, most ignorant, most violent, most confused, most oppressive, poorest, worst ruled, and most repulsive regime and community in the world.

I am glad I am not a member of such a lost tribe of a lost religion!
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written by non conformist, February 27, 2009 17:24:36
Some Malay Muslim are stupid,
EVEN SO, the same are found in all the other kinds of people!
There are some stupid folks in all kind of people.

But what is disturbing about SOME Muslim Malays is that they are narrow and bigoted, and would not recognized the same right of ALL others to profess the religion their conscience dictate.
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written by hellosunshine, February 27, 2009 17:25:18
This is strictly between wayward Muslim Malays and Allah come judgment day and I don't want to comment any further less someone claims that we gleefully nod in unison when he whacked the Malays tho' I must say I did nod too. smilies/grin.gif
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written by malaysianohope, February 27, 2009 17:28:46
Abang,
Umno is playing as if it is GOD and that's where lies all the problems afflicting Malaysia. Their demise is near!!!
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written by *********, February 27, 2009 17:30:19
Whether you like it or not, the first Holy Bible was in existance in 1818 where the name 'Allah' is used. Check the above snapshot of the Malay Bible in 1818. Here are some examples of where Allah was found in the Malay Bible over the years as reflected in John 1:1) -

Maka bahwasanya adalah pada mula mulanya Kalimah itu, maka Kalimah itu b?s?rta d?ngan Allah, dan Kalimah itu Allah adanya. [High Malay, 1818]

Pada mulanja adalah Kalimat, dan Kalimat adalah sama Allah, dan Allah adalah Kalimat. (High Malay, 1821)

Sebelum dunia ini diciptakan, Firman itu telah ada. Firman itu ada bersama-sama dengan Allah, bahkan Firman itu ialah Allah juga. (Modern Malay, 1976)

Sebelum dunia ini diciptakan, Firman sudah ada. Firman itu bersama-sama Allah dan Firman itu sama dengan Allah. (Catholic Alkitab, 2001)...More http://*********.********.com
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written by Anti Relon, February 27, 2009 17:31:14
Anybody seen Jacquilene Tiara's Puteri Gunung Ledang? The script that appears on screen, is foreign? Sanskrit!
And also Raja Bersiong. The story is ancient (Kedah).
There is no mention of religion in the story. Is there a reason?
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written by gogsard, February 27, 2009 17:31:50
Try youtube.com and search for videos lectures from Yusuf Estes. He eloborate a lot about the one god concept, the word Allah and the history between Islam, Christian and Jews. Exactly like what RPK and brother Tawfik Hamid said.

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written by hermanc, February 27, 2009 17:43:50
Dear fellow Malaysians,

I can't help but think that all this can be solved if only we think less about ourselves and more about others. Stop being so sensitive and defensive, no one's trying to take anything away from anyone here. If only the majority in Malaysia (muslim malays), stop imagining that the rest of us minorities are trying to undermine or insult their faith all will be well. We may have different believes but we have common goals. How long are we going to bicker about race and religion here in Malaysia? Sigh
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written by rpremkumar2u, February 27, 2009 17:50:02
For Christians only? For Roman Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains also can read ah?
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written by kclim, February 27, 2009 17:50:23
Question time: Can anyone tell me Who is the God of Abraham? Better still can anyone call Him by Name ?

I believe that Jews believe in the God of Abraham.
I believe that Christians too believe in this same God of Abraham.
I believe that Muslims also believe in this same one and only true God of Abraham.
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written by HONEYBEE, February 27, 2009 17:50:48
'written by my oumrie, February 27, 2009 16:56:34
I have no problem with Christians using "Allah" in their Al Kitab, as long as they mean "Allah the one and only" i.e. La Illaha Illallah (no other god except Allah). Trouble is, Christians regard Jesus (a.s.) as son of god and, in the last number of years, they've elevated Jesus to god. So, I'm puzzled why Christians in Malaysia can't use the Malay translation of god - "Tuhan" in their Malay translated bible? Can someone explain please?'


Hi, I'll try my best to explain but do forgive me if it's not so clear.

Well, In Christianity, there's is the concept of the Holy Trinity. Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. Many pose the question that if there is only One God, why then are there three (3) in Christianity?

Let me ask you a simple question. What is water? Water is a liquid, isn't it? Then what is Ice and Steam? It's merely a different physical form of water.

Hence, Water, Ice and Steam are the same, yet in a different form.

So is God. God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Same but different... however is still ONE.

I hope this gives a better and clearer concept and understanding. Thanks.
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written by emirateswenger, February 27, 2009 17:54:16
I'd never knew that many Muslim's in Malaysia recites and not read the Quran. How can one so strongly affirm that which one have no understanding?

Something is very wrong here. Very very wrong...
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written by ellyna, February 27, 2009 17:58:47
Gosh RPK, you gone and done it again! Now you have to start dodging their 'missiles' such as the Sedition Act and what not.
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written by johntyc, February 27, 2009 18:00:40
This is why most Malay Muslims do not like RPK that much. Ouch! Truth hurts!
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written by borneoman, February 27, 2009 18:01:49
OVERLORD,its the Holy Trinity,the sacred mystery that is beyond our ordinary human being mind to comprehend. In the Name Of The FATHER,The SON and The Holy Spirit when we make the sign of the Cross.3 in 1 and 1 in 3.
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written by Malaysiaku, February 27, 2009 18:07:40
If there are false prophets, there will be false Muslims and there are many of such holier-than-thou false Muslims around in Malaysia. Some appeared by surrounding Karpal, some prevent others from using the word 'Allah' and yet many disgused themselves as religious teachers and such to add authority in their misleads. Malaysia Boleh! Celakas!
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written by panca, February 27, 2009 18:11:45
Yes Bro Pete, this was the word Muaalap I heard since I first learned of its meaning in Mid Secondary years, the same I told an Indian classmate who have explained the term as 'derogatory', where there are in fact millions of Hui Chinese people in China are muslim, the 'Hui' surname's religion.

Where did the saying of "Katak dibawah tempurong(tempurung)". Ask a chinese if there were such a saying in chinese language or perhaps ask a 'Hui' chinese of this saying!

(This one on the side track) I just had a drink or two, but not going for three in one new shop, at the back of me emerged a man who has fat air about himself started spewing about politic in Perak, incessantly stroking about Pakatan Rakyat, Pas and Pkr cannot do and Dap has the most seats, that the state belongs to Malay and not Non Malay blah blah blah. That is why I had too much to drink that I can't support for a third drink. This is a new shop named Ringgit Corner in Permaisuri and will be my first and last to visit such kerala guy(ala Ahmad Ismail), mind you, he is not even a Malay and should be in MIC.

While we were on the way out, we could hear him bragging about his friend Ministers this miniskirts this.

Vomit! "Some People".
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written by Francis, February 27, 2009 18:14:21
How can we have Malay Muslims who think like the Christians - Love thy neighbour as you love thyself when we have people like AAB, NajiS, Albar, Zulkifli Nordin (how many have spoken to you and what is your response - I suppose you added petrol to their fire?, KJ who are holy but do not love their neighbours.

If you do not understand Quran please do not read it. Tiada gunalah. God will not forgive you for the wrong interpretation and practice of the Quran.

To all Holy Muslims - Do not impose your own commandments against Allah's. Allah is for everyone.
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written by kclim, February 27, 2009 18:14:29
Thanks Honeybee for your very deep insight in this much clouded world.

Water or rather H2O is the only matter on earth that can exists naturally in all three(3) physical states as solid (ice), liquid (water) and gas (vapour/steam). This triple or tri-state occurs simultaneously in nature.
I guess this concept of Trinity is already manifested in things that we can see and touch. Now the concept of Holy Trinity lies strictly in the realms of belief and faith. Coincidentally three great religions of the world's people ( Jews, Christians & Muslims) have their foundations deeply rooted in the God of Faithful Abraham. Cheers !
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written by CariJalan, February 27, 2009 18:16:37
"It is extremely surprising that the Arab financed TV station in Dubai would allow this to air. Be sure and watch this, it is so powerful I have no doubt she now has very large price on her head. She is one impressive woman.

Here is a powerful and amazing statement on Al Jazeera television. The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from Los Angeles . I would suggest watching it. This film clip should be shown around the world repeatedly!"


Don't know if the above is off-tracked, but here's the link to a Youtube movie worth your visit. To view it in its entirety if you have slow connection, press the 'pause' button and wait for a couple of minutes to enable it to load completely. It will surely load completely if you give it the time to do so.

http://video.******.com/videoplay?docid=1296126090432829344
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written by BukitBeruntung, February 27, 2009 18:26:57

It boils down to one word - Insecure.

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written by minime, February 27, 2009 18:30:36
Dear RPK,

I can't agree more with you.I was born as a Hindu, converted to Christianity and now am a Muslim.The one thing I learned about during all that conversions is 'there is only one god'.Maybe the Hindus are not as close to Islam as Jews and the Christians are.

I got dejavu attending the classes that was conducted by the Jabatan Agama.I was listening to the same preaching as I did during the many Sunday mass that I attended.'There is only one god, god is formless, no idol worship'.

As I dug through the Quran, eventhough I can't recite or read it, realised that the old testament of the Bible is part of the Quran.And the 'taurat' has something to do with Jewish holy books.All these 3 religions, point to one god.And all has, Abraham, Moses...mentioned in the holy books.The Jews only recognize up to Moses(Nabi Musa), Christians up to Christ(Nabi Isa) and the Muslims up to Muhammad.And they all pray to one God...Allah!

But RPK, even the Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East can't realise this resulting in so much bloodshed, how would you expect a Malay to?
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written by eagle22, February 27, 2009 18:32:20
melays just know to read road signboard.. in ARABIC... even if they dont know .. they still want it in ARABIC....They ll protest.. di tepi jalan bodoh nya....
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written by arnab76, February 27, 2009 18:43:57
This only happens in Malaysia. Darn it...YES in Malaysia ONLY. What can we say more on the MAJORITY OF Malaysia Muslims leaders.. Now we have the samseng UMNO youth and yes they are good for nothing if this is not rectify in Malaysia. A picture tells a thousand words and what would we call every action of the UMNO youth staging protest each time things dont go their way....Every sound mind will point to them as the suspect of the bullets received by Karpal. Real damn Celaka. This reflects the leaders of UMNO - what kind of half pass six leaders we have. The children will follow the adults and learn from them. Same to UMNO and BN.
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written by Goodbites, February 27, 2009 18:51:36
We should thank Syed Hamid for stirring up this issue. It will definitely bring our Malay brethren to a new level of understanding i.e. to exercise intelligence in whatever you believe in and not parroting like the rest. In the share market if you follow the majority you will lose. There are still people who believe that the world is flat.
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written by Lim Lim, February 27, 2009 18:55:29
pete,this is a excellent piece of GOOD nail right on the dot!!!!!
i,as a chinese;too hav a good piece of learning n enlightening stuff.
thanks.
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written by chiongguo, February 27, 2009 19:01:31
You can never tell the truth when you yourself do not know what truth is.
Find out the truth for yourself : http://www.911truth.org/
'Allah' is an arabic word NOT a muslim word. If muslims called God by a special name like the jews, YHWH, then they can make it exclusively theirs to use. But 'Allah' was and still is an arabic word and NOT a muslim word.
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written by Msahibul56, February 27, 2009 19:02:12
Majority of Malay Muslims

If you ask them if they believe in the Quran, all of them will say they do.
If you ask them if they had read the Quran, some of them will say yes.
If you ask them if they understand what is stated in the Quran, only a handful of them will say yes while the rest will look right, left, and smile sheepishly before saying ..heh,heh...
So how can the majority of them say they believe when only a handful of them have made an effort to read the Quran with understanding.
How can you believe in something you don't understand?
Either you are a liar or as God says in the Quran, "the worst creature in God's eyes are those who are deaf and dumb and who have no understanding." (8:22)

Know that He even forbids you from performing the solat unless you understand what you are saying. (4:43)

Go on. Ask any Muslims beside you. Do they really understand what they recite in their prayers or are they just muttering the word like parrots.
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written by cruzeiro, February 27, 2009 19:02:32
written by my oumrie, February 27, 2009 16:56:34
I have no problem with Christians using "Allah" in their Al Kitab, as long as they mean "Allah the one and only" i.e. La Illaha Illallah (no other god except Allah).

================================

Dear my cumrie,
Should that be the case, you definitely have no quarrel with any Christian, for they too believe in La Illaha Illallah!!

The problem here is the complexity of the concept of the trinity - it may new to you to know that even christians fought a great deal over this concept. It isn't easy for one to do justice to this concept, which many (and I dare say - Most!!) christians themselves do not understand it. Thus most of them depend on "faith" to accept the theology behind it, as written by the Church fathers.
It is made even more difficult, should you have an opposing view. In fact, I too have struggled a great deal with this concept.

Should you have the time and patience for theological drivel, do look up/****** for "On the Trinity" by St. Augustine. There are more on the net by others and and even more on those who challenge this concept.
You may go to the following website and do a search if you so desire (ie if you have the stomach for it):http://www.newadvent.org/

Cheers!

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written by Nizzywizzy, February 27, 2009 19:02:53
I have travelled and lived in western countries,America and in the Middle East and have visited Pakistan, India, China and almost all Muslim countries.

When I'm in the western countries, I am respected as a fellow human being with all my human rights.

In the middle east and other so called Islamic countries you are always referred to as muslim with nationality attached,for example Malaysian Muslim, Indian Muslim, Pakistani Muslim, Chinese Muslim and so on, rather than a muslim brother.

Look at the way the Arabs treat the Indonesians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who are supposed to be their fellow muslim brothers. In Malaysia, see how we treat fellow Muslims from Indonesia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. Malaysians look down on them and treat them badly. Where is the spirit of one Ummah.

How can we call ourself muslims and claiming moral high ground when we don't question the wrong doings going on around us. In Malaysia how can a police man or woman call themselves muslim when they mistreat,abuse and torture an another human being.

You know you won't get beaten up or tortured when you are arrested by Police and you will go through due process in front of the law and will be compensated for wrongful arrest and detention. Look at the way our immigration officials treat the supposed to be illegal immigrants, do we agree when the UK government catch the 30,000 or more illegal Malaysians, they should be beaten up, made to squat, stripped, photographed and locked up for months? So why when we see the mistreatment of these people, we keep quit because they are foreigners. Why many people are dying while in our police custody?

We know that the western countries are not perfect but with all their faults, they look after all their citizens equally (at least in the eyes of the law) with basic human rights, look after their old, sick and the disabled with dignity by providing medical care and support, educate the young with free education, social security and housing for the disadvantaged and unemployed, Freedom of expression,individual rights and so on.

These are the things all the muslim countries should be doing in the spirit of what islam teaches and set an example. Then we will have respect from others and wont be seen as hypocrites.
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written by cruzeiro, February 27, 2009 19:06:07
But RPK, even the Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East can't realise this resulting in so much bloodshed, how would you expect a Malay to?
===============================

Dear minime,
If you believe that they fight becos of religion, you are sadly mistaken!
They fight becos of politics and money - religion is just the tool.
Cheers!
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written by Frusmalaysian, February 27, 2009 19:06:16
Another stupidity of some Malays: they refuse to sit and discuss (in a forum) with people of other faith as this will degrade their religion. It's really beyond ones comprehension.
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written by Fuminari, February 27, 2009 19:08:40
how can one justifies that one understands what hav been written on the book while one does not understand the words that hav been written on the book????
sounds stupid,doesn't it????
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written by Nizzywizzy, February 27, 2009 19:09:40
Sorry TYPO in my above comment - You know you won't get beaten up or tortured when you are arrested by Police in the western countries and you will go through due process in front of law and will be compensated for wrongful arrest and detention.
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written by singam, February 27, 2009 19:10:48
Honeybee & kclim,

The 3 states of matter analogue is most appropriate. On planet Earth, where the temperature happens to be centered somewhat above the freezing point of water, we see water in the 3 states. On another planet with a different mean temperature, it could be some other substance, but again in the tri-state condition.

The Holy Trinity is described in Hinduism as the Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva trinity. Brahma is the creator aspect of the One God. Vishnu is the aspect that manifests in flesh to save mankind. Shiva is the cosmic energy of the universe.

It was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that not all of the Messengers of God were known to him. The implication is that there have been messengers from the same One God who are not counted among the Prophets of the Torah/Bible/Qur'an.
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written by Melly, February 27, 2009 19:15:29
my oumrie, I admit it can be confusing for many, why Jesus is God to christians. The original Old Testament (OT), was written in Hebrew and the New Testament(NT), written in Greek. To understand why Jesus is God, we need to refer to the original texts. Quoting Pete's, 'the word, El, Elah and Elohim etc,'. Elohim in Hebrew is God but in PLURAL form, as in Genesis 1;1. In Gen 1;26 'Then God said" Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness". This being the case, why is Jesus considered God? Well, in John 1;1 (NT), In the begining was the Word(Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The original wordings in Greek,"Pros ton Theon( the Word was with God), Theos en ho Logos( The Word was God). The is no particle, because it is a predicate(i.e. an assertive, otherwise it will render it gramatically incorrect). You might be interested to know that even Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) actually quotes or appeals to the torah and/or the gospel, as in Najm 53:33-38," Do you (Muhd. pbuh) see the one who turns back? Gives a little, then hardens (his heart)? What has he knowledge of the unseen so that he can see? Nay,Is he not acquainted with what IS in the book of Moses and of Abraham, who fulfilled his engagements? Al- Shu 'ara' 26: 192-197, "Verily, this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. The spirit of faith came down upon your heart with it that you might be one of the warners in the plain Arabic tongue. And truely it IS in the Scriptures(Zubur) of the former people. Is it not a sign to them that the learned of the children of Isreal, RECOGNISE it. Ta Ha 20:133, "They (the Meccans) say,, 'Why does he not bring us a sign from his Lord?' What! Has not a clear sign come to them in what IS in the former pages (al-suhuf al-aulla)? Yunus 10;94 " If you are in doubt regarding that which we have revealed to thee ask the people of the Message if you don't know.' If you are really interested please refer to Al Anbiya 21;7,/ 21;105, Al Zukhruf 43;44-45, Bani Isra'il 17;101, Al-Nahl 16;43-44, Al A'raf 7;156;157/ 7;;159. There are actually more verses in the Koran. Happy studying.
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written by ckone, February 27, 2009 19:22:32
its umno propaganda.... turning a peaceful religion to a samseng religion...just look at wat they did to karpal....
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written by carribeanking7, February 27, 2009 19:28:02
The definition of Malay in the Federal Constitution, is those who speak Malay habitually, practise Islam and adhere to Malay customs.

Umno comprises Malays of many ethnicities and hues, started out as a group of Muslim associations banded together to fight for their rights. Speaking Malay habitually is subjective as I know "malays" who speak english habitually especially those who served in the British ruled civil service this makes it subjective more so if one takes into account non-malays who habitually speak malay like my late grandma, who did not speak english, bengali was hardly spoken in Malaysia, so unless you were from calcutta she would communicate with you in Malay.

Malay customs are largely hindu customs, besides the customs are loose and practices can vary even from family to family, even the cokmar (mace) is the same as used in hindu customs, which brings us to the third "ingredient" which is Islam, compared to the other 2 subjective requirements, A practitioner of Islam is more identifiable and a clearer term of reference or condition if you like.

UMNO needed Islam to bind all the Malays of different ethnic hues together, otherwise they would fragment into several political partys like Parti melayu proto, melayu minang, melayu bugis, melayu anglo etc etc...this would diminish their political power, thus UMNO needed Islam to unify them.

My opinion baseed on above (debatable of course) is UMNO sees Islam as a political tool and not as a source of wisdom and guidance otherwise the hypocrisies they practice will not exist, that three definitions in the federal constitution would maximise their numbers. Over the years, that definition has widened to include non-Muslim natives as Malays be it the Portuguese or the Sabahans who join Umno.

Ironically the Indian Muslims association ( KIMMA) has been trying like forever to get into UMNO without success, perhaps thats why after Ahmad Ismail made his infamous pendatang pronouncement, you wrote a piece about mad cow disease in Penang, I think they were not mad but desperate, perhaps they thought that tearing up Koh Tsu Khoons photo would help them curry favor with UMNO and earn brownie points for future negotiations.

It also appears that using Islam for political opportunism is not exclusive to UMNO, as can be seen by some within Pakatan like Zulkifli Nordin, sometimes I think they just want to go against the flow and be a contrarian to attract attention to themselves, never mind if it makes the look silly, they want to be all over the news.

Zul gets all the publicity but those like YB Yusmadi Yusoff of balik pulau who do excellent work but keep a low profile are not so well known. Some have a Paris Hilton mentality, any publicity is welcome even bad publicity. many with good intentions have tried to explain, but an SW radio cannot convert FM radiowaves.

Reminds me of this saying-
Takalamu 'alannas biqadar 'uqulihem (Prophet's saying found in Bukhari) meaning speak to the people according to the level of their understanding"
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written by arazak, February 27, 2009 19:28:10
In Qatar, Baharin, Kuwait and UAE, there are many expitirates. Majority are non-Muslims; Chrisrtians, Hindus, Sikh, Budhists, etc. All the time I heard them saying "InsyaAllah" to each other.

I have never seen any non-Muslims saying "InsyaAllah being arrested in these Arab Muslims Gulf states! Perhaps the UMNO Muslims thought they are more holier than the Arab Muslims?
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written by cruzeiro, February 27, 2009 19:30:34
singam,
Yes - in hinduism too they believe in the concept of "unity in trinity" - the triune Godhead - and hence it isn't exactly a christian concept.

In fact, the concept of the trinity is almost as old as religion itself - it was practiced/accepted in various ancient/pagan religions as well.
It was probably man's attempt to "define" "God", so as to justify himself & his very existence.
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written by alfchuah, February 27, 2009 19:49:32
It's OK - for people who believe, they will be judged by god at the end of day.

I am happily standing on the other side, where I judge myself.

There's so much contradiction between what a religious text says and the progression of time. I don't know how angry is Allah as Muslims are so un-Muslim today: they drive a Honda! Did Allah drive a Honda? I don't know how angry is Jesus when Christians undergo a heart transplant - argue all you want but you don't love what you have been given and you delay the time in going back to him in heaven/hell.

It is as simple as that, because we're all bigots. We choose what we wanna see/believe and call the rest mualapp.
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written by talk2stop, February 27, 2009 19:50:52
I hope when I go to sleep tonight and wake up tomorrow that the world I wake up to is a world that without religion. A world that we got nothing to fight or die for. If I don't wake up I hope someone will bury me upside down so that everyone can kiss my ass.
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written by budakpekan, February 27, 2009 20:00:37
When Islam is not practiced correctly then all kind of problem happen...

I would like to be fair to other friends in Christianity, Hinduism, Budhism and other, please read the books of Islam before commenting about Islamic teaching.

Just like a teacher in school tech you the right things but you answer the exam wrongly, it doesn't mean the teacher is wrong.

No religion (as far as I know) teach the bad things, but the so called 'follower' still committing all kind of fault. That doesn't mean the teaching is bad.

What we need to do is, go back to our own religious books, read, understand and practice correctly.

Then, we can leave in peace regardless of our races and nationality and religion differences.
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written by cruzeiro, February 27, 2009 20:28:47
Pete writes;
And what are 16 million Malay Muslims compared to the more than 100 million in China, the mualaps, as the Malays would call them, who have been Muslims since 1,300 years ago when Malays were still praying to trees and whatnot.

======================================================= =======

Y'know what Pete
- these intellectual amoebas who pretend to be "holey" will tell you that these guys weren't "Malays" - they were "declassified" since 1957!
That's becos, it's "cast in stone" in our Federal Constitution, that Malays have to be Muslims!!!

That's why, the Ahmadiyyahs in Kg. Nakhoda are - "Malays, and yet not Malays - Muslims (in IC) and yet not Muslims".
Quite a knot here, isn't it?
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written by amoker, February 27, 2009 20:41:40
Actually, I don't think Malaysian Muslims are stupid. Perhaps, not reading enough. Be open to read articles that the government says no to for promoting this and that. That will enlarge the world view.

Even not looking at religions, scholars have come to the same conclusion on the root word of Allah. And Islam does not compel, right?

On a separate topic, i do find it interesting to find that Muslim converts need to be called a new name. The Mualaf. Why the segregation? My faith accepts all just as they are as long they believe, repent .
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written by biggun129, February 27, 2009 20:44:38
Ahmadneil feel rejected, Ahmadneil is as hardcore as YB Karpal Singh, while Karpal Singh with the helps of PR's MPs gain access to the parliament blocked by the UMNO youth,whereas nobody help him to gain access to be the 'Accuse' in the PJ session Court or May be the Putrajaya High court, and the one who block him is no other than Our 'RPK', Ahmadneil must understand that it is not only as simple as landed in the Sungai Buloh resort or the Kajang Sanctuary,he may even been invited to be the 'Guest of Honour' of the 'Castle of Kamunting' which is undoubtly belongs to the 'King of the blogger',and the 'King' of course, will not share his bed, definitely rejected this 'Old and Ugly' ahmadneil unless he is as beautiful as 'Eli' the 'Goddess of PR',may be RPK will like to buy ahmadneil a cup of 'Starbuck' coffee and explain to him the different colours of the sky in the 'Castle' and the Sky 'full of Stars' somewhere around Bangsar Village!
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written by Bandit, February 27, 2009 20:47:34
Well i greet my muslim brothers with assalamuailakum...I use inshallah....Tuan Allah..etc..whose gonna stop me. I am a sikh. My religion teaches no discrimination.Malay muslims are not stupid, its the negative teaching they receive from so called local hero ulamaks thats destroying their minds.
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written by apa jadi, February 27, 2009 20:48:15
I still maintain my stand. Too much of religion really makes a person stupid, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc etc...

Belief and disbelief, God leave the choice to everyone. God does not tell the believers to monopolise anything. Only Bigots do.
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written by merlin2001, February 27, 2009 21:16:59
Dear Pete,
Stupidity maybe too strong a word to use. Ignorance should be more proper even though
you used it in your intro.
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written by nanyangren, February 27, 2009 21:31:02
The chinese use YAHWEH, which is also liable to be ban?
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written by cheemengwong, February 27, 2009 21:40:34
In the book of Genesis in the bible, the God of Abraham which is the also the God for Issac is also the God for Ishamel....

Read Genesis Chapter 21... it says that Ishmael was an archer who live in the wilderness and God told him that HE will make him a great nation. Ishmael married an Egyptian

and the rest as they say is history.

I believe that the Jews, Christians and Muslims worships the same God. I may be wrong but no one has yet come back from heaven and tell me.

Forget what the pastors, theologians and teachers tells you. Read and seek divine help to understand.

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written by panda, February 27, 2009 21:53:43
great article , I was told n i believe "that all rivers lead to one sea". i wonder how many do actually practice tis .???
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written by Changes, February 27, 2009 21:56:20
As I dug through the Quran, eventhough I can't recite or read it, realised that the old testament of the Bible is part of the Quran. Dear Minime, that's where you r wrong. The Quran is part of the BIBLE and they are still with the OLD TESTEMENT, we r with the NEW TESTEMENT. that's why we r not LOST IN SPACE. DIG IT?
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written by LKO, February 27, 2009 22:22:13
Same issue as the constitutional crisis lah.

People who don't understand talk more than those that do.
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written by lancs77, February 27, 2009 22:27:18
Dear RPK,

Divide and rule! That's why, not ignorant, indoctrination.
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written by astina, February 27, 2009 22:29:10
Pete ..i could help laughing at the title of this post ..
But u beter be warned..our shitty yemeni minister will now say u have insulted Islamonce again ..based on the 100 or so reports lodged against u by the same Safeguards Council as previously ..

The true muslim and malay would not be insulted by this article but truly enlightened..
Thank you for this post..


Now take a rest till those dumbwits figure out how to corner u again smilies/wink.gif
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written by san amin, February 27, 2009 22:32:07
Dear RPK,
THIS IS THE REASON WHY I LOGGED ON TO MT AT LEAST 6HOURS A DAY.HISTORY, MORE PEOPLE WILL HAVE BETTER UNDERSTANDING. THANK U, ITS BEEN A LONG TIME. BY FAR A MORE PRODUCTIVE ARTICLE.
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written by anakmalaysia777, February 27, 2009 22:50:39
The problem in Malaysia, as in many other places, is political Islam. Islam is interpreted by or for the politician for the furtherance of his political objectives. Islam for such politicians is a tool. UMNO was not formed to protect Islam although it is the first word in their slogan. UMNO was the manifestation of Malay power when it was first founded. Over time this power, instead of being used for common good, has been focused for the benefit and enrichment of the few. Islam was and is exploited to retain power.

Islam in Malaysia has never been interpreted purely from a theological perspective. At every turn Islam was interpreted with an eye on: (i) how to control the Muslims brothers' behaviour to ensure that they remain subservient to the UMNO cause - power, represented by the keris in the UMNO flag; (ii) how to insult, alienate, belittle and frustrate those who do not profess the religion.

So until UMNO's power over the people is curbed and people become free to debate and discuss Islam, it is no point trying to interpret the many verses of the Holy Koran. UMNO will create any number of bogeys to frighten the Malays that their religion is being threatened in order top retain their power. They will never ever enter into a proper discourse.

So people do not try and interpret Islam over and over again. The problem is not there, but it is in UMNO power. True Muslims will also know that their religion will not be interpreted and practised for what it is until those who hunger for power are the ones who interpret and enforce the practise.
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written by RumahPanjai, February 27, 2009 22:56:43
Believing in a religion and not understanding the beliefs written words is just pathetic! A lot of these parrots need to wake up. Malaysia's brand of islam is the blind following the blind. Like the sheep, when one jump from the cliff the rest follows!
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written by adita, February 27, 2009 23:16:03
There are so much hate and comments arguing about religions here...I believe that we need to find common ground for all.. indeed the word ALLAH is already a common ground for all the Muslim, Christians, Jew and even Hindus.. let us try to find similarities and not create animosity among us.. this world is just temporary and we all believe there'll be hereafter... ALLAH will then decide who is the most righteous and decide who enters either heaven or hell based on our "TRUE" believes or faith..

MAY ALLAH BLESS US ALL..
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written by Shiva, February 27, 2009 23:21:59
each religion is a practice , and every religion is a filtered version of its prior version..thus we have hinduism, judaism, buddhism, jainism and then christianity and lastly islam followed by sikhism.
1.god exists in many forms and yet god is god;
2.god exists in single form and yet god is god;
3.god does not exist in any form and yet god is god.

its all about how we understand the similarities, and not its differences -
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written by rizzku, February 27, 2009 23:36:33
It is easier to understand the concept of trinity with the analogy of 'roles' rather than 'forms'.

God - is the ultimate supreme one true God.
Jesus - when God became the redeemer.
Holy Spirit - when God becomes our daily companion.

I am a Medical Doctor working in my private practice, when I talk to my wife, I am her husband and when I hold my son, I am his father. I am still true one me but with different roles.
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written by aryn, February 27, 2009 23:49:11
At www://arabicbible.com offers detail explanations about the Holy Trinity or what my Muslim brethren think Christian worship three gods.
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written by aryn, February 27, 2009 23:55:02
oops sorry...

The add is http://www.arabicbible.com offers detail explanations about the Holy Trinity or what my Muslim brethren think Christian worship three gods.
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written by panca, February 28, 2009 00:04:03
written by budakpekan, February 27, 2009 20:00:37

I would like to be fair to other friends in Christianity, Hinduism, Budhism and other, please read the books of Islam before commenting about Islamic teaching
.

Yeah, great idea to read another's religious book(are you allowed to read others too). Anyway, first thing first, lets see what the whole article is trying to express to the 'concerned people' and if sending a message to them has a mean of telling some people to change or wake up themselves. The author perhaps was modest to say 'some people' instead of many for that matter.

Yes no religion teaches bad, then what is happening to the world where religion becomes a front to go to war? Stupidity is the cause, isn't it?
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written by glock17, February 28, 2009 00:20:44
In BOLEHLAND....politics of the ruling regime aka Omnupotras fundamentals are:-

1) Racist corruptive regime
2) Extreme narrow and ultra blind ethno-religious nationalist
3) Systematic discriminative system
4) Cronism
5) Nepotism
6) Power abusive
7) Lies and lies
smilies/cool.gif Rotten judiciary
9) Vote buying
10)Phantom voters

Dulu kini dan selamanya
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written by Farouk, February 28, 2009 00:32:06
Malay-Muslims get ELEVEN years of Pendidikan Agama Islam in school yet we're still worried our people will get confused when they see 'Allah' in the bible? What does that say about the effectiveness about our ustaz and ustazahs?
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written by Wudan, February 28, 2009 00:49:15
Malam tu, penceramah pertama ialah Chan Ming Kai, ADUN Simpang Pulai. Dia mulakan ceramahnya dengan bagi salam, ditengah-tengah ceramah, dia petik hadith Nabi S.A.W, dan diakhir ceramah dia sebut..wabillahi taufik wal hidayah, wassalamualaikumwarah matullahi waba rakatuh.

Pak Cik kat sebelah aku tunduk..pelan-pelan dia bagi tau…”Ini lah hikmahnya…kalau tidak aku tak tau, dah ramai orang Cina menghormati Islam..cuma Umno yang tak henti-henti ngutuk Islam.”

Bila Nizar berucap, bercerita tentang Pondok Pak Teh, aku tengok orang tua tu meleleh air mata.


Source : Di cilok dari Al-Banjari
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written by Steven Ong, February 28, 2009 00:50:33
1. Tuhan is god, any god you worshiped. Infact anything! eg. money. Allah is the God your Lord who created the heaven and the earth and everything .

2. God the Father, God the Son , God the Holy Spirit is one. He ( Jesus ) appeared on earth to take the sin of man on Himself, to make a Way for us to reach Him. The Holy Spirit is God's spirit to guide us. If not we may be led astray by the evil spirit as some do.

3. Man did not use religion to gain support or power , rather is the other way round. If you are blinded and do not see the truth, you may believe all teachings and commit acts that are against your conscience and good judgement. The devil's purpose is to steal ( your freedom ) to kill ( your soul ) to destroy ( the way back to your heacenly Father )

4. Some Malays or other races are not stupid, just that they are misled.( Stupid means no brain ) If their eyes were opened, they will know the Truth. Our responsibility is to help them to see the Truth. The Truth that will set all free and rejoice together.

5. PRK, UMNO, PAS, DAP, MIC, MCA, or PUPies, are just like business, trying to profit, either for themselves or others or all Malaysians? If we have independent MPs, who love to serve all. Whose joy is the joy of all Malaysians and nothing else. This are the true MPs. Lets vote for more committed independents? There is no gang to fight or topple.

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written by gundohing, February 28, 2009 01:11:01
Through my growing up years before Sabah joined Malaysia, and my mother who is a convert, I am familiar with their (mother's side of the family) use of the words Allah in their church newsletter, journals and magazines. The Sabahans has already accepts the Malay language even before Merdeka when Sabah was still under British rule. Was this word exclusivity a condition imposed for joining Malaysia? UMNO is embarrassing me as a half Malay because it is championing for Malay stupidity.
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written by yy88, February 28, 2009 01:12:45
Stupidity is an entitled privilege for Umno Muslim.
Stupidity accords them the handicap and excuse for the needs to be corrupted to survive. Political religious ignorant helps UMNO in controlling those lost anak kambings.

Honestly, I believed in the existence of GOD but not the practice of any religion.
Over the years, religions have been abused, distorted and mislead by some selfish individuals for their influences and controls over the less mentally capable.

Religions have created more chaos and disunities among human than bringing peace to all. There is still hope in this world with more RPKs and Tawfik Hamids enlightening those mislead. Muslims have to change the perceptions of other on them.
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written by Davy McChester, February 28, 2009 01:15:21
RPK,we wish we had more of you around,at least 1% of the population ,and we do not have to think the other unknown world (heaven,for many) as our paradise. Our Malaysia can be our paradise on this earth. We need more of you to guide us ,broaden our narrow perception of things,take us out from the well ,show both sides of an issue. Make us a wholesome person.And ,lastly,please teach the UMNOPutras morons what statesmanship is all about when country and people are concerned.

The PKR illiterate as well as a significant portion of the Malay population are products of years of brainwashing by the former "elite" UMNOputras. Some of the veteran UMNOputras had their own agenda then and now are merely spectators probably regretting the mess they had helped to create:Robots ,or headless chickens,sometimes called UMNO foot-soldiers ,running around the country the minute the present UMNoputras tyrants want to issue a threat. The country laws and its enforcers,the beat policemen,the Police officers have to obey the laws of UMNOputras for their survival. You think the Malay leadership would never ever resemble anything close to many of those that run the African continent and other tyrants ,for example , Zimbabwe,or Nigeria,or Libya,or Sudan ,or Iran ,or Syria,or Uganda,or Kenya,or even Pakistan,you are mistaken,mate ! These are signs of a desperate regime that has fear shooting up its spine and will resort to instigation,false charges to create a climate of fear ,to remain in power. They will formulate their own laws to defy the call for change: the strong urge by the new generation of Malaysian that can no longer be bottled up; it is going to explode. UMNO is bankrupt of new ideas of how to manage a population that is far superior intellectually than the so-called cream of UMNO-if Khairy ,Kerismuddin,and Bin Mahathir are considered one .UMNOputras have lost their moral credibility to manage Malaysia. The cancer has metastasized. There is one thing if not controlled that can bring down any country within 50 years : it is corruption running wild,a way of life. If it still continues after 50 years,it means we have a tsunami disaster awaiting us.
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written by Apache3, February 28, 2009 01:50:24
G = Generator - Generates ideas in you
O = Operator - Operates (Plans) on how to execute
the ideas
D = Director - Directs (Execute) the planned idea.

All these happens within ourselves.

Just think about it..
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written by SamBall, February 28, 2009 02:29:34
Religion is used by BN/HUMNOO as a political tool; but it is a short-sighted and dangerous tactic and should be rejected by all enlightened and edcuated people.

I wish all my friends Salamaualikum every day and all my friends (Arab and non-Arabs)return the greeting, but in Msia haram? In Msia, religious freedom got, but cannot use the Allah? Can write, but cannot say it? What a load of bollocks. I also have many Arab Christian friends, so how Msia bolehland?

Yes, some Malay Muslims are stupid; and although stupidity is not the domain of any one race/religion, it makes you wonder if some Malays are stupid or is it the religion, or a mixture of both and if not then what? Education? Politics ? Man? What? What?
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written by picadilly, February 28, 2009 02:29:53
Heck! Even Hindu's believe in Allah s.w.t

Im more worried about an ISA attack by ignorant Albar on RPK for writing this article!!!!!
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written by Berean, February 28, 2009 03:10:21
(1) The "trinity" is not a concept. The Bible clearly states that there are 3 Gods with equal powers and with distinct roles. They work together in perfect unity and trust in one another

Jesus Christ is God, and He said so explicitly (although Muslims claim Jesus did not say He is God). Jesus Christ is our creator, redeemer, and Judge.

When we all die, who will judge us? None other than Jesus Christ! (see the King James Bible)

(2) It is not true that the word/name Allah comes from "ELOHIM".

Before Islam was founded, the supreme unseen God was known as Al-Ilah, ie "The God". The prevalent religion in Arabia then for thousands of years was worshipping the MOON (admitted by Islamic scholars and by way of archeological discoveries).

Allah is a contraction of Al-ilah. The generic word for God in Arabic is "ilah" otherwise how can muslims proclaim "there is no God (ilah) but Allah".

Which implies, Allah is a description/name of the Muslim God.

(3) "Eli Eli Lama Sabactani" : note that "ELI" is pronounced "elley".

(4) If Muslims worship the same God as the Christians, then Islam/Quran should not have said Allah had NO son and rejected Jesus Christ as God Almighty.

Finally, if followers of Islam worship the same God as TRUE Christians and are of the same spiritual parentage, ELOHIM and YHWH should have been written into the
Quran.

(5) Catholics believe that Allah is their God. The Vatican & Pope says so and it is official doctrine. Many protestants have swallowed this "LIE" as well. But I know countless of other Christians who know that Allah cannot be used by them as a reference for God.

In this case, the Malay Muslims aren't that stupid. They have their theology correct. It is the Christians, not the Catholics mind you, who are the stupid ones!!


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written by miwaki, February 28, 2009 03:17:50
After all these,everyone still has to go to work this morning,God doesn't put meal on your table,we have to work for it.
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written by emcube, February 28, 2009 03:29:15


dear all,

We all agree that Allah is the Arabic word.

So, let's apply the same rule;

If you write in Arabic, use Allah.

If you write in Hebrew, use Elah.

If you write in Aramaic, use Eli.

if you write in English, use God.

If you write in Malay, use Tuhan.
(i agree with oumrie, February 27, 2009 16:56:34


Please see again the examples posted by RPK above in Arabic characters and the translations accompanying them. If need be, pls see again many times if you still dont get my meaning.


I dont see any problem to that; that is the use of the corresponding words in the languanges of one's writing. Unless the word Allah (which is actually is Arabic) is to be used by the Catholic Church's Herald newspaper when the writing is in actually Malay has some bad intentions to confuse the non-arabic speaking Malays or the ones with shallow Islamic knowlegde. These are the ones who are easily deceived (the some Malay Muslims referred to by RPK); example like Tawfik Hamid and dusunbukit (i dont know dusunbukit is a Muslim or not) or any muslim (not the non-muslim, as some,... i repeat,.. some non-muslims are expected to think that way and to buy the anti islam propaganda). Any muslim of the same thinking like Tawfik Hamid; will easily buy the Jews/Zionist controlled media messages/propaganda. This is due to no other than his/their own ignorance of true Islamic teaching.


Yes indeed it is a must that we Muslims equip our children with the Islamic knowlegde based on the true teaching of the AlQuran and Sunnah in order to counter/shield from the endless efforts of the enemies of Islams from the time of the beloved Prophet Muhammad S.A.W (please note my words on enemies of Islam - NOT non-Muslims in general) to stray the Muslims from the true Islamic teaching till the end of the world.


Please refer to Al-Baqarah 2:120. Please study the tafseer of many scholars, not just the translations.


i must reiterate that i'm not against Christians or Jews or any other believers, but i'm against those who are out to destroy Islam, even if he/she is a Muslim.

Thank you for reading. May God bless us.


emcube.
~~

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written by emcube, February 28, 2009 03:54:23



Please refer to Berean, February 28, 2009 02:44:28

this is one of many examples of readers who read without thinking. This type can cause misunderstanding to our written message.

That's why messages are best to be heard in speeches and in dialogues. As the practice of all the Prophets from AADAM through to Muhammad (peace be upon them). In other words if we want to learn, it is best to listen to our teachers words,... attentively. In Islam, it is the best form of da'awah. But or gomen never allow PAS the rights to airtimes to reach to the masses interactively. Otherwise, the ignorant Muslims in Malaysia (due to UMNO's narrow minded ideology / 'asobiyyah) can easily be reduced except on those who purposely reject "hidayah" (arabic = guidance form God)and to be "abaa" (arabic = refused arrogantly).


~~
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written by emcube, February 28, 2009 03:59:16



.... But our "gomen" never allow PAS the rights to airtimes to reach to the masses interactively. Otherwise, the ignorant Muslims in Malaysia (due to UMNO's narrow minded ideology / 'asobiyyah) can easily be reduced except on those who purposely reject "hidayah" (arabic = guidance form God)and to "abaa" (arabic = refuse arrogantly).

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written by HONEYBEE, February 28, 2009 04:12:19
The wonderful thing about this is, we're having a decently intellectual discussion and sharing of thoughts on religion. Either we agree or disagree with comments, the main point is, we CAN discuss about it in a civilized manner without any crazy gangster riots!

Love it!
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written by areenna, February 28, 2009 04:43:03
Why everybody's so loud? Who said the use of the word Allah is prohibited in a Malay bible or publication? Where is said the word Allah can't be used in Christian publication? It's prohibited ONLY if they don't print "UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY” on the cover. Or should I said the word Allah can be use provided they print “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY” Now, What's the problem with printing “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY”? on the cover. Doesn't agama Islam have a special place in perlembagaan. Can they respect that a bit just by printing “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY”? Is that too much to do? But no, they choose to offend their stupid Muslim friends by refusing to print “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY”.

Why the publication in Malay language in the first place? If you publish something in Malay, doesn't it obvious your target audience is Malay? And then you wonder why majority of Malay Muslim (obviously RPK is not in that majority) is stupid enough to pissed off.

If they so insisted on writing in Malay why not use the word "Tuhan". Allah is an Arabic word. God is an English word and Tuhan is a Malay word. (Of course the word Allah is use in Arabic bible since it is an Arabic word, what else they should use? Tuhan? God?) What's the true agenda? Of course, since majority Malay Muslim are so stupid they don't know the true agenda.

How its begin: Surat bantahan persatuan lama Kedah : http://temanteras.*********.co...-kristian/

Does Malay Muslim so weak that they can be swayed by a Christian booklet in Malay that use the word Allah? Can a Malay Muslim swayed by a free Christian teaching booklet that tried to camouflage as an Islamic publication? For a god's sake, anybody have the possibility to be swayed to anything. Look at many morality of young malay Muslim nowadays. "Apa nak jadi dengan remaja zaman sekarang?". A cliche. Hey, hello pakcik, jangan salahkan sangat orang baru, orang baru jadi macam tu sebab orang lama macam pakcik jugalah. (Bravo to Penang new government that was brave enough to close 6 entertainment club in Penman. No bravo to Pak Lah for asking us to work harder on the year eve at Dataran by giving entertainment to teenager so they can make "let party till morning, then we have group sex at cheap rumah tumpangan and then we sleep all days" as the new year resolution to start with.

If its true that there is a Malay Bible in 1818 which use the word Allah, so? Does is mean we should look "forward" to that era? Okay, let we all go back to the Feudal period which I am sure many of don't really happy about to go to especially with the current Perak crisis.

Of course its so beautiful and diplomatic, its so nice and universal to say "after all we are praying to the same God" which everybody can relate to. But then, does it mean we can choose any religion by throwing a dart to a list of religion? Can't we just admit differences? or we can choose to deny that. Yeah, Muslim accept Jesus, Moses as prophets. Christian and Jews don't accept Mohammad as a prophet or Islam as the final and conclusion to Christianity, Jewism and many before. Or do you mean the religions are different but the religions' Gods are the same. Even the fundamental part: yeah, the One and Only God and Trinity is difference (which some Christian tried in vain explaining to Muslim as actually is the same as the One concept). If you think the Christian really agreed that Muslim worships the same God as theirs, why don't they embrace Islam since tt's the latest update version? Its because they don't think so but with Muslim they will say "our God is the same". Historically, it is unacceptable to them because Poppet Mohammad is not a Jew unlike previous prophet, that's why Prophet Mohammad never been welcome in the first place.. Well, talk about racism and politics.

Never heard before its a problem with non-muslim says to muslims using word such as insha-Allah, masha-Allah, Alhamdulillah, and so on? Why create a problem.

Don't we have other bigger issues than defending Christian publishers that are so lazy to print “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY” on the cover of the their Malay publication?

No? Okay go ahead, lets play the issue under the name of freedom and piss off the Malay muslim so we can start fighting. One group will defend the Christian publishers that are so lazy to print “UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN” or “FOR CHRISTIANITY” on the cover and the other group will say publisher should.

Now, don't be so timid, go ahead, label many more of your Muslim as stupid Malay Muslim. For some (maybe that include Zulkifli Nordin, hope so) only the last word of the last sentence matters.

Thanks for reading this "just an opinion" from another stupid Malay Muslim.
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written by tmf, February 28, 2009 06:17:05
So, only Muslims can refer to God as Allah? Does that also mean that Muslims can not refer to God in other names? Muslims are not allowed to refer to God as Tuhan? Or only Muslim can refer to God as Allah or Tuhan as they wish?

Please do not be offended, my dear Malaysian Muslims, I really need to know because I have never been so confused before.

BTW, what is the penalty if non Muslims utter the word Allah?
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written by tmf, February 28, 2009 06:38:55
If our government is so concern about religious and linguistic sensitivity, why not just prohibit all non malays from learning or speaking bahasa melayu and prohibit all non muslims from all islamic functions or prohibit all non muslims from viewing or listening any islamic audio or visual broadcast?
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written by tmf, February 28, 2009 06:45:58
Dear Daryl,

What is our National Language at the moment?

Is it Bahasa Kebangsaan?
Is it Bahasa Malaysia?
Is it Bahasa Melayu?

At different points in time, someone in our government decided to refer to our National language by different names for strange reasons known only to themselves.
What are we to do? We adapted all the way and just hope one day, our people can really grow up and be mature.
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written by wongnoball, February 28, 2009 07:01:21
If RPK is saying Malay have Failed Islam ...I Agree! smilies/grin.gif

But then to title the Article "some".....Say "MAJORITY" if 98% don't understand what they read. It beggers belief what sort of religion is that. Time to convert to other religion that you understand if you ask me! Its OBVIOUS!!
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written by tumbledore, February 28, 2009 07:06:22
..sorry my comment got truncated!

oh no, no! the super admin is not responsible!

the fact that islam and christianity are the same is well known. the evolution is also in that order..... smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by areenna, February 28, 2009 07:39:34
written by Daryl, February 28, 2009 06:24:00

written by areenna, February 28, 2009 04:43:03
Why the publication in Malay language in the first place? If you publish something in Malay, doesn't it obvious your target audience is Malay? And then you wonder why majority of Malay Muslim (obviously RPK is not in that majority) is stupid enough to pissed off.

What a funny response with conflicting details in the argument. This is just one of them. It is printed in Bahasa Melayu because majority of Malaysian do understand and speaks the language daily and those includes a lot of non-Melayu.

Sebelum anda lupa Bahasa Malaysia atau Melayu adalah Bahasa Kebangsaan Malaysia.


Hi Daryl, if the publisher so keen of Bahasa Malaysia why don't they use the word "Tuhan" rather "Allah"? Guna perkataan "Tuhan" barulah betul-betul guna bahasa Kebangsaan. Pelik betul, macam ada udang di sebalik batu.
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written by Pakyeh, February 28, 2009 08:48:52
Salam Sheikh RPK,
Your explaination on the use of the word Allah by Christian n Jews besides Muslims is worthy of you being the Sheikh Al Islam.There is no monopoly in words.Muslims espacially the Ulama, have proven themself to be very narrow minded (thinking within the box) and incapable of any wisdom at all.
This sad state of affairs is because Muslims were and still are idiotised by the Hadith which says "Whoever uses his mind to interpret the Quran should be willing to enter hell fire.Unfortunately Ulamas still belief in Hadis, inspite of the hadis Contradicting the Koran
Read my article "Oh Religions unite",Oh Muslim think","Concept of Sin" and "Concept of the Massiah" at...

http://warongpakyeh.********.com
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written by nov05, February 28, 2009 09:06:37
what is the difference between these people and the almighty Vatican church?

they churn out different stories to fit their agenda. utter bollocks.
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written by Avanza1, February 28, 2009 09:34:57
Dear emcube,

Does that mean when you speak in BM you are not allowed to use 'Allah'? Then why the bias? This logic it not applicable. If it is, the mufti/iman must pray in arabic since he will definitely utter the word 'Allah'. You will hv to go to the schools which hold prayer in their assembly and insist they pray in arabic . U must tell mufti/iman to preach in arabic only since they will surely utter the word 'Allah'. Could this be a ploy also by the enemy of Islam to corrupt the Arabic language? emcube, u decide.

No one is against Muslims. Muslims must study who is Allah, pray to Allah and seek Him. Learn from Nabi Isa's about Allah. Know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

:-P Cheers.
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written by Avanza1, February 28, 2009 09:53:36
Hi emcube,

>>"That's why messages are best to be heard in speeches and in dialogues."

Don't think that would be possible since you will have to utter "Allah" you would have to speak in Arabic. We the common people of Malaysia do not understand that language. Therefore it is waste of time. To be practical, remove the restriction on the use of the word "Allah" then we can have a dialog...till then please stop posting any other of the comments on the matter of ban on the word "Allah".

Thank you.
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written by Admiral Tojo, February 28, 2009 09:56:23
>>>>On 16 February 2009, the Home Minister, Syed Hamid Albar, signed a gazette known as Gazette PU A 62 under section 22 (1)(c) of the Internal Security Act 1969 -- titled Internal Security (Prohibition On Use of Specific Words on Document and Publication) Order 2009.

So it is clear that the ISA has been abused. This gazette is definitely unconstitutional as per our FC. However, the ISA, is frequently used to circumvent the FC. This is how UMNO manipulates the FC and continues to abuse their power as and how they deem fit.

THIS EVIL ACT MUST BE DESTROYED AND SOON. Otherwise, there will be only one GOD for Malaysians, UMNO and the high priest is Syed Al-Blurr. Wake up Malaysians.

Shalom
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written by Steven Ong, February 28, 2009 10:26:19
Looks everyone is interest and restless with this religious thing. You know why? Because there is a void or hunger in each of us, for LOVE. That is why almost all songs is about love. The Truth should be revealed in a manner acceptable to all. I see quite a number are confused and ignorant of their own religion and also others. Why not have live dialogue or debates ,so that all are clear about their own and others? Or are the Umnoputras and supporters so afraid that many would convert? Why a Malay cannot be a Christian or Budhist in Malaysia? There is only one reason. Why a Muslim cannot convert out? There is only one reason. That is to hold them for an evil purpose. Like cigrettes or drugs it will eventualy drags one down and destroy himself and others together. God gives us a brain so wonderful why are we not using it for good? It must be greed, lust or selfishness ,called sin. Do not be deceived by lies and false doctrines of false prophets or teachers. There are many in the world. To all Muslims especially those who do not understand Arabic please learn from English translations in the internet. Do not be afraid for 'they' cannot harm or destroy your soul but only your body. Which do you love more?
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written by diehard, February 28, 2009 11:01:26
oh my god...
we have a lot of hollyman here...
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written by cruzeiro, February 28, 2009 11:07:07
The following is quite a long post - my apologies to Admin (feel free to edit/remove if necessary) - but it is meant to answer many presumptions.
http://www.themalaysianinsider...conditions
The notification, which falls under the Internal Security Act, was gazetted on Feb 16 this year.
“We feel good we can use ‘Allah’ again,” Fr Lawrence said, adding that the March 1 issue of The Herald will bear the required warning on its front page.
But he is wary of celebrating too soon, noting that the order does not allow Christians to use it orally, whether celebrating Mass or other forms of prayer and worship.
“If I had a Malay Bible, but if ‘FOR CHRISTIANITY’ were not printed on its front cover, ahhh, trouble,” the priest said.

=======================================================
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written by lokenpal, February 28, 2009 00:33:44
It is sad that that the Rev knowing the word offends our fellow Malays can’t forgive, despite having the right. If he is preaching the gospel then does calling it Tuhan or Allah make a difference?


Dear lokenpal,
The problem here is that never in the history of Nusantara has that word “offended our fellow Malays”.
Tuhan & Allah – does it make a difference, you ask?
Maybe it does – for the Malay language doesn't have a word for “Lord”.
===================================================

written by Berean, February 28, 2009 03:10:21
(1)The "trinity" is not a concept. The Bible clearly states that there are 3 Gods with equal powers and with distinct roles. They work together in perfect unity and trust in one another


If you believe that is the case, so be it – in Christianity, there are no “3 Gods” as far as I know ….

(4)If Muslims worship the same God as the Christians, then Islam/Quran should not have said Allah had NO son and rejected Jesus Christ as God Almighty.

So now you take it upon yourself to dictate theology to Muslims? I'd definitely dread you taking over the Yemeni's place …..


(5)Catholics believe that Allah is their God. The Vatican & Pope says so and it is official doctrine. Many protestants have swallowed this "LIE" as well. But I know countless of other Christians who know that Allah cannot be used by them as a reference for God.
In this case, the Malay Muslims aren't that stupid. They have their theology correct. It is the Christians, not the Catholics mind you, who are the stupid ones!!


Hallelujah praise the Lord!! I'd love to say it in the tongues that spew out of me, right now – but sorry I cannot type the gibberish fast enough ….
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written by cruzeiro, February 28, 2009 11:31:29
One more thing which many Muslims need to realize is the fact that "Allah" unlike for Muslims, to Christians/ Sikhs "Allah" isn't the name of their God - it is a word for their God.

For Christians at least, their is a "God with no name"
- "I am, Who I Am".
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written by cruzeiro, February 28, 2009 11:35:45
But he is wary of celebrating too soon, noting that the order does not allow Christians to use it orally, whether celebrating Mass or other forms of prayer and worship.
=================================

To those who think the above order came without a catch, please note the above.
They give a penny, so that they can rob you of a pound!
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written by apanama, February 28, 2009 11:37:02
HEY HAMID BOTAK. WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO REGISTER THE WORD ALLAH AT THE PATENT OFFICE, OR TAKE IT TO EU COURT TO CLAIM THE MONOPOLY.
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written by 2edgedsword, February 28, 2009 11:37:34
The truth of Islam and the beauty that come with it are destroyed, raped and misrepresented by politicians in Malaysia.
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written by cruzeiro, February 28, 2009 11:47:14
Hi cruzeiro,

The church has been trying to convert ppl for hundreds of years. The problem is the udang in your church. The church I know would stop using the word so it can concentrate on the lord's word.

**** U
===========================

It's true that the Abrahamic religions all try to proselytize.
The funny thing is, except for isolated cases, few Muslims in Malaysia have "fallen victim" to this.
Be that as it may - I seriously doubt that the word "Allah" was the reason for their conversion, bro!
So what's your beef?

You don't seem to realize the constitutional right that you seem so intent on denying those who wish to worship their own way .....
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written by Thinkwisely, February 28, 2009 11:53:37
Truly udnerstand your faith and have strong faith in what you beleive and you will not be easily diviated or confused by others. This is as simple as that. Just don't understand why our politician keep thinking that Malaysian in average are less intelligent to think rationally after 51 years of indepandant. If so than those politician should be shamful as they had failed to do thier job in upbringing the people.

It is sad that we are always been told that we are prohibited from certain thing and the only explaination is that we will be confused because we are mentality not ready for it....sigh!!!
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written by shiokguy, February 28, 2009 11:53:47
Are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me YM RPK? I know you are not kidding and I myself did come across some friends of mine who simply recite without knowing what is it all about! They just learn to remember the sounding of the recital, period!

Shiok Guy
http://shiokguy.********.com/
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written by cruzeiro, February 28, 2009 12:07:10
There was this conversation I had with good man - an Ustaz who teaches tafsir Al-Quran.
He told me that many (not all) are simply learning how to recite with proper phonetics, as long as they get their "pahala". To understand what it means - they have to go thru another "course" which is tedious. Many however don't wish to look it up themselves, as they "fear being misled".
But according to him this is more of an easy way out from seeking knowledge, which he feels is a very sad thing - as it makes them vulnerable to "godmen" who seek to confuse them in their weakness and ignorance.
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written by shiokguy, February 28, 2009 12:20:39
[مَّآ أَصَـبَكَ مِنْ حَسَنَةٍ فَمِنَ اللَّهِ]


Do you know the meaning of the above? I am no idea because I never learn Jawi before and I setup a poll to see how many Malaysia can understand the above, not just pure recite the sound of it..

http://shiokguy.********.com/2...ng-of.html


Shiok Guy
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written by A MI, February 28, 2009 12:21:35
good point about the shallowness. grat article as always YM RPK. Thank you.

Well let me be the deivl's advoctae. Whose fault is it that "some" Malay Muslims look at Indian and Chinese Muslism as converts?
Yes, it is the so called local mullahs who need to be educated! It baffles me how so many among them go to parts of India for their basic religious education before going to Egypt, or other Arab countries which offer religious degree programmes, yet when they return they are still fossilised in their old myopic views.

At least mualaf appears more respectful than "keling Islam" as one Malay-muslim refered to born Indian Muslims. Also "some" Malay Muslism can't stop themselves from asking every Indian Muslim - "bila masuk Islam?"

One more thing, " some" Malay Muslism think it is more glamourous to say they are Pakistani mixed. I was rolling with laughter when a sales girl told me this.

She said Ayah saya Pakistani.
I asked. Iye ke? Belah mana? Karachi atau Lahore?
She replied: Malabar.
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written by shepherdvoyage, February 28, 2009 12:47:16
Dear Pete
Your profound knowledge about Islam is very impressive. The Muslims in this Boleh Land need to be re-educated about their religion. The way they behave and speak has indeed tarnished their own religion. Shame on them!
Thank you for your postings that have served as an eye opener to the non-Muslims.
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written by Msahibul56, February 28, 2009 12:53:06
Muslims are commanded to believe in the Torah and Bible.

"He (Allah) revealed to you this Scripture (Quran) truthfully confirming previous scriptures. He revealed the Torah and Bible previously to guide the people. He also revealed the Furqan (Statute). Those who disbelieved in God's revelations have deserved terrible pumishment. God is the Almighty Avenger."
(Surah Al Imran: 3-4)

This means that both the Torah and Bible are from Allah. So why can't His name be used when He is the One who revealed them.
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written by rpremkumar2u, February 28, 2009 12:54:10
politics and religion are strange. To the stranger who just bemuses with the rhetoric. in practice it is no longer an alien part of our psyche. he speaketh or doeth the WILL?. RPK seems to suggest the walk is more significant than the talk.
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written by parsona, February 28, 2009 13:07:16
The question shouldn't be Why must they use the word Allah... It should be:
Why freak out when the word is used?? Unless you are INSECURE, STUPID, UNEDUCATED, TRYING TO BE HOLIER-THAN-THOU, STUBBORN, or all of the above, this should be a non issue. How can you possibly consider this an attack on Islam?

To the Malay muslim religious fanatics, please go back to your caves and practice your false intolerant religion there. Do not come out and embarrass the real followers of Islam who actually understands it 100x better than you do.
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written by A MI, February 28, 2009 13:25:18
parson,
it is INSECURITY.
Surely you heard a law maker's statment justifying disallowing Muslims in Malaysia to renounce their religion. "“The judgment in the case states clearly that a Muslim cannot renounce the religion as he wishes. If such freedom is given to Muslims, this will affect the status of Islam as the official religion, as stated in the Federal Constitution,”
This statement speaks for itself.
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written by singam, February 28, 2009 14:12:45
cruzeiro wrote
"There was this conversation I had with good man - an Ustaz who teaches tafsir Al-Quran.
He told me that many (not all) are simply learning how to recite with proper phonetics, as long as they get their "pahala". To understand what it means - they have to go thru another "course" which is tedious. Many however don't wish to look it up themselves, as they "fear being misled".
But according to him this is more of an easy way out from seeking knowledge, which he feels is a very sad thing - as it makes them vulnerable to "godmen" who seek to confuse them in their weakness and ignorance.
"

al-Qur'an says, in Surah 36:21
Follow those who ask of you no fee, and who are rightly guided.

Beware the professional purveyors of religion - they may be guided by their purse strings.
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written by A MI, February 28, 2009 14:28:15
Here is something for YM RPK.
MT-readers please do not get your kickers into a knot just yet. By now you should have read my responses and I believe in fairness.

As a lay person from what I have observed Christianity for a long time spread widely via many european languages and not Arabic. Arabic may have been used in Christianity in the Arab world.
In India sermons are delivered in vernacular Indian languages and I believe there is little use of the word Allah. In Pakistan I belief sermons would be delivered in Urdu.

Allah is Arabic; it is not Malay and hence why the sudden clamouring to use Allah in articles on Christianity? What is the real motive here? Wouldn't it suffice to use Tuhan instead of Allah in the Herald?
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written by Melly, February 28, 2009 14:54:38
Dear Berean, Can you quote where in the bible is mentioned there are 3 Gods? Allah is Arabic, whereas Elohim is Hebrew. Can you also explain this 'LIE' by the catholic church? Pointing your finger, without justification, is a dangerous. Please justify.I have already mentioned in the Greek translation between God the Father and Jesus. Also in John 10;30, Jesus said ",I and My Father ARE ONE." How about the Holy Spirit? Well Jesus said in John 14;16, "And I will pray the Father and He will give you another Helper (Greek -Allos), that He may abide with you forever. Allos is another of the SAME kind, i.e no distinction, whatsoever.
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written by Kirdash, February 28, 2009 15:22:22
Has anyone thought about this: All non-muslim Selangorian cannot sing the state anthem as there is the word allah in it..I should ask my children not to sing the anthem in the school assembly.....
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written by SamBall, February 28, 2009 15:25:52
I think theer are more comments on religion than race here, so which is which of "some stupid Malay Muslims"

Perhaps the Sultan should wade in, seeing that he is supposed to be the guardian of Islam in Msia not unlike all the Emirs/Sultan in the Arab countries

We have bigger problems with race, so why bring in religion??

Never mix religion with politics; just too dangerous; will set you on fire. Progressive democracies have learnt this long time ago. When is Msia going to learn?? I think all Msia is bodoh.

Shalom, salam and peace to all
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written by Anak Kampung, February 28, 2009 15:56:38
my oumrie, I think cruzeiro is right that if you are really interested you should read the 'proper' sources. I will just say a couple of things here about what I know, which may be helpful.
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written by Anak Kampung, February 28, 2009 16:04:44
my oumrie, I think cruzeiro is right that if you are really interested you should read the 'proper' sources. I will just say a couple of things here about what I know, which may be helpful.

(Oops, accidentally hit enter.) All Christians believe in ONE God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three persons bit is important...it is part and parcel of the statement that 'God is love'. The idea here is that a 'community' exists already within the Godhead, sustained by the circulation (giving and receiving) of love between the persons on the Trinity. It is into this community and this love that one is invited to participate and this is what being a Christian is all about.

A related concept is the contingence of creation, contingence here meaning 'unnecessariness' meaning that God did not have to create in order to be God. God was already 'complete' in and of himself and did not need to create 'people to love' or 'people to love him' because he was already love from the beginning. As such, creation (including our very beings) is a completely free gift and not a gift which expects a return or a so-called 'gift' which is given in order to get power over another person. (For the former, we can think of bribes and for the latter, we can think perhaps of the three independents in Perak.)

Thus, finally, being a Christian is to acknowledge and give thanks for the gift of being and creation and to *choose* freely to participate in the community of the Trinity. There is no compulsion in Chrisitianity. The church does not impose; she merely proposes.
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written by Anak Kampung, February 28, 2009 16:18:59
To make this idea more concrete, I now present to you the description of an important event in the life of Christ, his baptism in the river Jordan by St. John, as recorded in the Gospel according to St. Matthew. After that, I will give you a commentary by the theologian David Bentley Hart in his book 'Beauty of the Infinite'.

St. Matthew (chapter 3, verses 13-17):
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan, to be baptised by him. John would have prevented him, saying, ‘I need to be baptised by you, and do you come to me?’ But Jesus answered him, ‘Let it be so now; for it is proper for us in this way to fulfil all righteousness.’ Then he consented. And when Jesus had been baptized, just as he came up from the water, suddenly the heavens were opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, ‘This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.’

And now David Bentley Hart (p.16smilies/cool.gif:
...what is revealed in the audible and visible coincidence of the voice of God declaring the Father's pleasure in his Son, the dove descending and the incarnate Word is nothing less than the Trinity itself in the fullness of its shared love, its immanent dynamism of distinction and unity....The descent into the waters, whereby Christ submits to a sanctification of which he has no need, is an image both of the way of the Son into creation, his gracious descent into flesh, time and space, ultimately into the darkness of death and hell, but also of the way the Son goes forth eternally from the Father, receiving all from the Father and restoring all to him in 'selfless' adoration; Christ's emergence from the waters is at once his resurrection, his ascent and return of all creation to the Father as pure offering, and also his eternal 'response' to the Father as the Father's everlasting Word; the descent of the dove is at once the blessing of the Spirit, set by the Father upon the Son and imparted by the Son to his church as the teacher of all truth, who bears tidings of Christ, but also the Father's eternal gift to the Son of the Spirit, who forever bears joyous tiding of the Son to the Father.
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written by Anak Kampung, February 28, 2009 16:36:06
(that should read p. 168 )

I think it is important to know that in Christianity, Christ was not a man who was 'elevated' to Divine status. It is very 'natural' to come up with this theory so I am not surprised that you did. In fact, a controversy over this 'adoptionist' theology raged in the church for a long time (in the first few centuries and then again in the middle of the Middle ages ;-) if I am not mistaken) and was finally roundly condemned as heresy by the church. Christians believe that Christ was both fully God and fully man and this dual nature is very important for understanding other things particularly the atonement (his death on the cross and resurrection and how this 'atoned' for our sins). This was hashed out at the Council of Nicea in the early 300s (sorry I am not good at dates) and you can read more about it if you want at this link for example. http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0425/

The second thing you should know is that unlike in Islam, the Word of God in Christianity is a PERSON, the person of Christ. Christ is PRESENT in the Word of God in the form of the Bible (which was nevertheless written by people and not directly dictated by God, another contrast with Islam) but as a priest said to me once, 'We worship God, we don't worship the Bible (or the church).'

The beginning of the Gospel according to St. John says the following:
'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.'

'The Word' here as in the Hart quotation is Christ. 'In the beginning', when God said 'let there be light' it was through his Word that all things came into being.

I hope this is helpful. Finally, I include below the Nicene Creed, which was written at the Council or Nicea, which may further clarify things for you. This is one of the basic creeds of the Christian faith, held to by ALL Christians. (The other one is the Apostle's Creed.)

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic [i.e. universal] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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written by Anak Kampung, February 28, 2009 16:38:18
In case it wasn't clear...the Word of God was from the beginning and descended to us in the form of the man called Christ. It's the other way around from what you said.
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written by Msahibul56, February 28, 2009 16:55:03
Dear cruzeiro,
Whaddya mean Malay does not have a word for Lord or as in the Arabic, Rabb?
There is and it is Tuan. Your owner. The One who creates and owns you.

But the Malays have somehow dedicated the word to their human masters, their kings and sultans.

Rabbana actually means Tuanku, the word that you address the king.
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written by businessman, February 28, 2009 17:14:48
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMON SENSE ABOVE ALL, THAT IF YOU HAVE ANY...
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Religion is just a philosopy to guide us in our daily life to do the write things and avoid doing the bad things.

But how do you define what is write and what is wrong? Is killing and hatred just in the name of religion is correct or is it wrong?

Let your common sense make the judgement. Religion is just there to guide you doing so.
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written by Melly, February 28, 2009 17:26:03
The Nicene Creed is actuall pre-Islam and recite to this day.
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written by areenna, February 28, 2009 17:57:46
First we have "gunalah bahasa Malaysia as it is a bahasa kebangsan" sudden massive supporters. Since when non-Malay really concern about Bahasa Malaysia?

Now, the non-Muslim suddenly so concern about Malay Muslim shouldn't just recite Quran but try to understand them. Uhu, I am so touched . Yeaah, like they really care. First they don't agree with Hudud now they worry the Malay Muslim don't really understand Quran. First they support "langkah mayat saya dulu" now they really concern Malay Muslim don't really undertand Quran in name "so that the publisher don't need to print UNTUK AGAMA KRISTIAN on the cover"

If Malay Muslim really understand Quran I don't think there's is many UMNO supporter left. They will support PAS, then our country will be governed by ULAMAKs. Now you dont really like the idea that Malay Muslim really understand Quran, don't you?

BTW isn't it "recite" (Iqrak) is the first word said by Gibrail to Prophet Mohammad? That how Malay Muslims begin to learn Quran. The bad part is many Muslim stuck with the beginning phase.

The BIGGER issue is not that the Malay Muslim only recite but not understand Quran. They don't need to understand the whole Quran to know that its wrong to abuse the their position's power for a personal sake such as in fattening their bank account via under the table collection. They know extra-marital sex is a sin but Malay Muslim's sex scandal is everywhere. Etc, etc. Don't they know that its wrong? Which part that they don't undertand? They have ILMU but don't have the IMAN. Their iman is not strong enough to resist the tempatation of RM5 million to lompat.

Its not much about they don't undertand Quran , its about they don't pratice what they already know. If they just pratice what they already know, there will not become so corrupted.

Another opinion from a stupid Malay Muslim.
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written by Melly, February 28, 2009 20:07:29
The Nicene Creed was adopted by the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. This is definitely pre-Islamic.
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written by businessman, February 28, 2009 20:10:02
So, the farmer try to approach the wood cutter and ask him is it the correct way to cut down the trees?

The wood cutter angrily replied, "The wood is not yours and it is none of you business. Who are you anyway to question on my skill and planning to cut down trees? You are not even a wood cutter"

The simple story above sound familiar?
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written by roggon, February 28, 2009 20:16:21
The Imam shook his head and went off to pray for God to have mercy on me -- and the 99% other Malay Muslims in Malaysia.

Oh yes, the malays really need the prayer from the chinese imam!!
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written by tokbahaman, February 28, 2009 20:57:55
Dear RPK. Tuhan is a noun, Allah is a proper noun.

" God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity."

God is Allah to Christians? I think not. Therefore they should not confuse Allah with their "God"

I totally disagree with the Present Malaysian government for allowing the use of Allah in Malaysia as it is a proper noun specific to Islam.

I am not too concerned with what other countries do and whether or not they allow Christians to use Allah as their 'god'. More so in this case when the bibble shall be in Malay.By all means allow them the use of Tuhan but under no circumstances to me should they be allowed to use Allah as a synonym to god, especially if the bibble in the Malay language. It shall cause confusion.

Mari kita lihat dari segi mudahnya(saya bukan ahli ilmuan). Kita mengucap,
"la ila ha il lal Allah"
la=tiada, ila=tuhan,

Dalam bahasa arab ila=tuhan. Allah adalah nama khas untok Allah. Tidak boleh pada pendapat saya digunakan oleh mereka yang menyembah lain dari Allah.

Yahudi memanggil tuhan mereka "Jehovah". Pronounced as Yehovah.
Hindu banyak tuhan umpamanya Ganesh, Shiva dan banyak lagi.
Dari segi Christian sebagai saya dak katakan, mereka berkonsepkan "Trinity". God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Pendapat dan fahaman saya sahaja.

Yang berkuasa di Malaysia dah kata boleh......orang kerdil macam saya nak kata apa.Tapi saya tetap tak bersetuju.


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written by DontPlayGod, February 28, 2009 21:25:17
I have all along believed that it is UMNO who are making this bruhaha. The reason is that UMNO wants to control the minds of the Muslim Malays for political reasons. UMNO uses race, ketuanan, and recently religion(read Islam) to gain control over the minds and soul of the Malays. This cannot be done if other followers of their religion also claim the right to use Allah. This would then clash with UMNO's goals of using Allah to control the minds and soul of the Muslim Malays, because then the Malays may be confused and then may also query UMNO why Allah treats the other followers of other religion differently and does not demand that they do this or that.

It's purely political. RPK has already pointed out that the term Allah has been used long before Islam came into being, and is being used by the Jews, Christians, Arabs, etc. long before Islam. So UMNO racists, who do you have to say now?
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written by Angel, February 28, 2009 21:38:57
Syed Albar declared in the news tonight that it was a mistake and he withdrew the permission to use the word Allah by the non Muslims with restrictions.

How can something which has been gazetted less than a forthnight ago be made to U turn so suddenly like the hike in toll rates and ungazetted. Why this merry go round and wasting of time and energy, let alone confusing everyone. What cat and mouse game is this? I fail to understand. Please make clear decisions and minimise confusion.

It is not helping and eroding the respect of the rakyat in our lawmakers, sad to say. So, can someone please clarify and give us the real story. Can or cannot?
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written by gpjoseph, February 28, 2009 23:10:46
Why still this confusion? language & religion are two different thing, aren't they?
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written by areenna, March 01, 2009 00:39:25
Just to comment on Tawfik letters:
1.Tawfik: What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "Descendants of the pigs and monkeys"…. Is this a message of love and peace, or a message of hate?

Reply : I never hear Malay Muslim says Jews "Descendants of the pigs and monkey". Who are 'we' you are ferering to? Muslim of Hitler descendants?.


2. Tawfik : We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery.

R: What are you talking about? Prophet Mohammad is the one introduce laws about slavery while at that in Arab and Europe slavery is at rampage. Muslim know that, how come Muslim don't have clear concept of slavery?

3. Tawfik:....when someone accuses him of being a pedophile while, at the same time, we are proud with the story in our Islamic books, that he married a young girl seven years old (Aisha) when he was above 50 years old.

Reply : Muslim proud about that story? you are kidding me.Thanks for higlighting this (even up to the age), like there are no other achievements by Prophet Mohammad in his whole life. When you talk about slavery you dont even mentioned how Prophet Mohammad tackle that.

4. Tawfik: am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks.

Reply : My stupid Malay Muslim friends in Malysia are more shocked and awed like they were watching an horror movied when the saw the 911 clips. I don't see them dancing on the street.

US already gave freedom a bad name by killing thousand of innocence Iraqis and Afghan within just a few years period. Then US look puzzled why muslim didnt't fall love with US.

Many scholars even admits Muslim have many valid reasons to hate US. Through some documentarys I have seen many US scholar says there are so many US's handicraft in many Arab world confflicts such as the attack of Kuwait by Iraq. Many documents vailable. Go research.

On Palestine (by Dr. M) : These countries are their homeland. So why should they take Palestinian land to make their own country? They could take any of the European countries as their own country. The United States of America should offer one of its states as Israel.
Jews have lived with Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries without any serious problem. On the other hand in Europe, Jews were persecuted. The Holocaust did not happen in Muslim countries. Muslims may discriminate against Jews but did not massacre them.

But show me pictures of total destruction of Israeli towns and villages. Show me the effect of the primitive Hamas rockets on the Israeli people. Compare them with the effects of your bombs, rockets, shells, chemical weapons you used on the Gazans. When did Hamas blockade you and starve Israeli people and deprive them of medical attention. Did Hamas build a wall to separate Israelis from other Israelis including from family members? Did Hamas build settlements in Israel?

5. Tawfik: Muslims demonstrated to get more religious rights as we did in France to stop the ban on the Hejab (Head Scarf), while we did not demonstrate with such passion and in such numbers against the terrorist murders.

R: Its because they know the ban is created by France Goverment, so, they can protest to the Goverment. How to display passion against terrorist murders? Do they know who are the terrosris were so that they can give their protests letters or shove them with anti-terrorism sepanduk?

6. Tawfik: "and only then, do we have the right to ask others to respect our religion" .
R: Why with conditions then only? What about when other religion believer ask others to respect their religion? No conditions? Why with Muslim you have so many conditions. Do Palestine Muslim asking Jews to respect Islam? They only way they can get respect from Jews or US is to surrender their land to the Jews.

Yes, the only sure way they will respect is our religion is when Muslim obey or follow them or no conflicts of interets. You don't know that, ma? When Muslim conflicts with them, they will say Muslim are religous fanatic. IWhen Muslim agree with them and no conflict of interest, they will say they are the real followers of Islam.
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written by joz, March 01, 2009 01:30:04
I totally agree that stupidity rules the day as far as comments coming from many Malay / Muslims regarding the usage of "Allah" in publications other than the Quran Al-Karim. "Allah" and many other terminologies have been used in Holy Books since time immemorial. They are assuming that every Abdullah, Ali and Ahmad would be confused as they are.
However, I wish to note that several of your comments goes to show that you still lack a lot of knowledge, as far as the religion you supposedly embrace is concerned. The term "Mualaf" refers to anyone who is not born into Islam but later embraces it. It is therefore not only used when referring specifically to Chinese Muslims as you assume.
If you're suggesting that every Muslim has to fully understand what they are reciting from the Quran, then every Muslim has to be an Al-Hafiz. You portray an image that Islam does makes it more difficult than it really seems. The general requirement is that you at least understand what you are reciting in prayers. Has it ever occurred to you that a person is granted "pahala" for just listening to the Quranic verses being recited.
If I may suggest, exercise some courtesy, respect if not for yourself, at least for other Muslims and most of all appropriateness in your comments. Although it may empower your "no holds barred" slogan and your maintain your popularity with the secular audience, it does not do much for your image an a Muslim.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) once said "None of you will have authentic faith until your hearts are made right, nor will your hearts be made right until your tounges be made right, nor will your tounges be made right until your actions be made right".
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written by CariJalan, March 01, 2009 02:17:00
The new war on terror has many people asking, "Who is this Allah?" The pope says that Allah and Jehovah are the same god. President Bush and Ophra Winfrey call Islam a peace-loving religion. This confusion is made worse by Bible translators who have translated the English word "God" as "Allah" in Arabic Bibles.

The Bible says that those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So what name shall we use? We had better get it right if our eternal destiny depends on it.

If the pope is right and Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God, only under different names, then Jesus was wrong in John 14:6 when He said that "no man cometh to the Father, but by me."

Peter was also wrong on the day of Pentecost when he told the curious crowd that the Jesus they had crucified was the one they were to call on for salvation. He repeated the same declaration a few days later in front of the Sanhedrin that there was "...none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (See Acts 2 through 4.)

Throughout the Old Testament, the idea of God's name being special, holy, not to be profaned, is continually emphasized by the prophets. God was jealous when the people worshipped or served any of the other pagan deities. He didn't say, "Its okay to worship, Molech, Tammus, or Baal. That's just Me by another name."

The Allah of the Koran is not the God of the Bible. They are two very different personalities. The modes of worship and rules of life are opposite and contradictory.

The God of the Bible appears to care very much who we call upon for salvation. So should we.

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written by Berean, March 01, 2009 02:33:11
Melly: throughout the New Testament, there are references to there being more than one God. Jesus is God the Son (ie God Almighty)
ELOHIM is plural for God (as you also said in your earlier comment).

In the Book of Genesis, there are other verses that mention "US" clearly indicating there is more than one divine being. See also Genesis 11.7.
Jesus said "he who honours Me honours the Father" ... "he who does not honour me, does not honour the Father".

Also refer to 1 John 5-7 KING JAMES BIBLE: "For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the FATHER, the WORD (ie JESUS), and the HOLY GHOST, and these three are one".... One as in perfect unity, not that there are different roles played by the same person.

(The example of water turning into ice or steam is nice illustration but it isn't correct. The "TRINITY" isn't 3 roles performed by 1 GOD)
For your info, the KJV's manuscripts are in both Hebrew and Greek and are different from the ones used to translate the Catholic Latin Vulgate and NIV etc.

Why did I say "Catholic lies"? Well simple.... Cruzeiro listen up:
How can the Vatican say that Allah is one and the same as ELOHIM when the Quran says that Allah has NO Son, and Allah is not begotten and neither begets. It is a fundamental pillar of Islam that Jesus was a mere man. The Quran says that Jesus is a fake, that he did not die on the cross, and worst, that Jesus turned Judas's face to look like his own and therefore the Romans crucified Judas, not JESUS!!

The Bible says God is "not the author of confusion".
Put in a very simple way: when it comes to the use of Allah, either one has to believe in the Bible where Christ Jesus is God (hence refrain from using Allah as a word for God) or one has to believe in the Quran which denies the deity of Christ the beloved Son of God. (refer to Anak Kampung and Tokbahaman's comments above for more info)
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written by areenna, March 01, 2009 03:52:52
Hi Barean, just my reply to your reply to my comment posted.

B: Please carefully re-examine your history. You have been watching too much of that anti jewish AL-Jazeera channel....
R: Berean, maybe you watch too much western or jews controlled anti-Islam channel. When thousand Gaza's Muslim women and kids was slaughtered recently, the coverage by western or Jews controlled televisions or newspapers are minimum or nil.

B: And why are there 2 million Arabs living amongst the Jews? If they were such murderers as Muslims and dumb westerners claim, why haven't they wiped those Arabs away? And why are there 2 million Arabs living amongst the Jews?
R: Its because those Arab obey them. Told you, only when you obey them, you are a good muslim, if not, you are a terrorist. BTW, those Arab are not necessarilly Muslim. Please carefully re-examine those Arab.

B. HAMAS is a terrorist organisation.
R. That's your opinion, maybe because you spent so much time with western or Jews controlled anti-Islam channel. Another man's posion is another's man rose. Why don't we asked the Palestinee rather than you or me to decide.

B: There is so much hatred of Jews (the descendants of Pigs and Monkeys, according to the Quran) and so much violence that those Arab Palestinians are bringing God's wrath and judgment upon themselves.
R: "the descendants of Pigs and Monkeys, according to the Quran"? According to Quran? Please carefully re-examine the Quran.

B: Jews have not only been persecuted in Catholic Europe but also in Islamic countries since the very beginnings of Islam.
R: How many Jews been persecuted by Muslim? How many Muslim been persecuted by Jews? Please carefully re-examine your history. According to The Last Temptation of Jesus, the Jews even crucified Jesus Christ (a prophet for some, Son of God for some).

B: Oh by the way, that land of Palestine does not belong to the Arabs.
R: Oh how I wish British didn't confiscate Palestine land to give to Austrian Jews in the early 1900s...

B. The only way there will be peace is if Israel is left in peace.
R: The only way there will be peace is if Israel is left in pieces.
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written by LFLee, March 01, 2009 05:01:01
My Malay friend told me that they memorize the Quran
because any interpretation of the original words of
Allah will not be the exact same meaning - in this
way Quran will be faithfully continue.

I was amazed when I realized this.

I believe there are many true Muslim who really
understand Islam like RPK out there - when more
people start to speak out like RPK, our perception
towards Islam will change.

Please, people - not all Malays Muslim are stupid.
UMNO just try to use Religious issue to regain their
trust in Malays, same old trick. Don't fall for it.
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written by Melly, March 01, 2009 08:09:29
Berean: In order to understand the bible better, refering to the original text is very important. I agree that it does seem at times, what seem like paradoxical. Jesus is both Divine and human. He is Divine as mentioned in John 1:1-4; 14-18 etc, He is human because he is born of Mary, to fulfill the prophesy of His comming in Isaiah 53;4-5. Although the Koran denies that Jesus is devine, however, from the titles given to Jesus, e.g. Al Masih(Messiah), nabi( Prophet),rasul(Messenger or Apostle),Kalima (Word), ruh (Spirit),Shahid (Witness), FAULTLESS (surah XIX:19), He is no ordinary human being. From external evidence A quote from the Talmud reads: Balaam looked forth and saw that there was a man born of woman, who should rise up and seek to make himself GOD, and to cause the whole world to go astray." (2)Pliny a Roman historian, in one of his letters in A.D. 112, under Emporer Trajan, They (Christians) gathered on certain days (Sundays) before sunrise and sang to CHRIST as their God (quasi deo), (3) Josephus, born in Jerusalem, around A.D.37-38, a non christian. He wrote, " now about this time arose Jesus, a wise man,if indeed he should be called a man. For he was a doer of marvellous deeds, a teacher of men who receive the truth with pleasure; and he won over to himself many Jews and many also of the Greek. He was the Christ. And when on the indictment of the principal men among us Pilate has sentenced him to the CROSS those who had loved him at the first did not cease; for he APPEARED to them on the third day ALIVE again," end of quote. Here are some interna evidences in 1John ;1-3. This apostle claims as witness: That which was from the begining which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands,". In Rev 21-23, 5;7, Write this, for these are trustworthy and true." And he said to me, " It is done I am the Alpha and the Omega, the begining and the end...". Apart from the apostle John, the rest of the apostles, who are His WITNESSES, died as follows; Peter crucified upside down in Rome at his request, Matthew stabbed to death in Persia,Mark died as 2 horses pulled him apart, Luke was hung, Philip & Simon also crucified, Bartholomew skinned alive by heathens, James beheaded by Herod, Little James cut into half by a saw, Stephen & James the brother of John stoned to death, Matthias beheaded, Paul( the persecuter of Christians, until his conversation by Christ) was martyred by Emporer Nero. These are those who witness Christ's miracles, death and resurrection, Whom He also stayed with for 40 days before His ascension. I often asked myself, had I walked with Jesus 2000 yrs ago, what would I do? Bear in mind that in those days it was dangerous to be a follower of Christ and also some of those followers have a family. If I did not witness what Jesus did, would I Die for Him? In Mark 1;23-24 even satan acknowledged that Jesus is God,' I know who you are, the Holy One of God'.
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written by born2reign, March 01, 2009 09:41:30
All these comments are about the symptoms of the root issue.
Root issue - Politicians are head of Islam (UMNO decides what our imams can/cannot preach), hence religion becomes a state responsibility, not a personal responsibility (like all Malays must be Muslims, when they were Hindus before they were Muslims)

Root issue - Politicians are the head of universities and schools, hence with every change of education minister, he must show off and "change our education for the better" by pleasing his lobbyists and rich donators, hence we still cannot teach our children in English because the govt wants to give jobs to incompetent Malay teachers who are (most probably) local graduates who cannot meet the employment standards of private sector. Therefore we have unemployed teachers teach our kids to have employable skills and be entrepreneurs. May as well get your dog to teach your kids how to read and write.

Root issue - Muslims do not allow translations of the Quran. Malay muslims do not understand the Arabic Quran. Instead of getting a team of qualified religious scholars to translate the Quran into different languages PROPERLY, one man, whoever is imam or ustaz, is given the full responsibility to translate and communicate the message to his followers. If he said Cow while the text is Cat, all his followers will believe the Quran said Cow. Is the Islamic authorities so afraid to give their followers the truth, that they must get permission from UMNO what they can or cannot translate?

Root issue - is Allah the trinity God? If Allah is not referring to the trinity God, then better for Catholics NOT to use Allah while referring to God Almighty (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit). If Islam recognises that that Allah has the Holy Spirit, then what happened to the Son of the Father? Or is Allah a duality or just One (without Holy Spirit and/or Son)? I believe that Christians must first ask this God-the-trinity question before fighting for the use of Allah text.

Root issue - Malay language does not have the definition of Lord (Tuhan). Malay language is heavily borrowed (and claimed as own Malay) from English/Latin/Greek eg. ekonomi = ecomony, hospital = hospital(English), produksi=production, preskripsi = prescription, buku = book. Before the Westerners came here, Malays do not even have buku(s) that they have to borrow this word (book) from Westerners. Hence I disagree with PKR Zul and the many Malay & Indian Muslims (converted from Hindu) that Allah is a Malay word, a Malay context. It is borrowed from Arab, therefore let's go back to ask the Arabs what they call the "Christian" God - Allah or Tuhan? What the Arabs refer for Islamic "Amin" and Christianic "Amen" - should this be gazetted too?

Root issue - What has Allah gotta do with ISA?

Get the politicians out of religion and education. Otherwise we may as well acknowledge that Malaysians are communists, for our Malays serve the UMNO Islam prophet.
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written by Melly, March 01, 2009 09:44:15
Berean Cont... You quote 'he who honors.....' This shows God and Jesus are ONE, because they feel the same thing. If, otherwise, it would read he who honours me DO Not honours ....In 1Jn 5;7' for there are three...... and the THREE ARE ONE. Hence the Trinity. This is a study by itself, which I will disqulify myself. As for Elohim, the hebrew word is plural and in Jn 1;1, although Word was with God, and the word was God. Had it been 2 distinct persons intended, then it should read, the Word was A God. As explained earlier, this is grammartically wrong in Greek, cos, it is a predicate, which is an assertive. Now you understand why I disqualify myself. If it helps, the norm is for us to add mathmetically, i.e.1 1 1=3, but my God is infinite and if you add infinity infinity infinity = infinity. As to the quotations from the Koran and teachings from the bible, written by His witnesses, it is up to you to discern. This, I believe is the main stumbling block between muslims and christians.If you refer to what Muhammad(pubh) said as mentioned in my first article, you will see what he said about the Torah & Scriptures. If God is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Issac, as well as Ismail, is He not the same. When it comes to name, let's say you, Berean, it does not matter if you speak to an Englishman, French, German, Chinese, Malay, you will be called Berean, any other way, you might be offended.
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written by Silent Saint, March 01, 2009 09:53:59
Dear Pete,
An extremely well written article. When I leaved in Scotland for a while, I was often greeted with ‘Assalamu Alaikum’ by many strangers who assumed that I was Muslim (must be my goatee). At first I used to smile but would not return the greeting as I was told that it was a great offence for a non Muslim to greet a Muslim with such Islamic greetings. Once I took the trouble to explain to an elderly Albanian lady that I am not a Muslim. She gave me this wonderful smile and said “It does not matter whether you are a Muslim are not, it is a greeting and anybody can use it”. From then on I used this greeting rather liberally towards my Palestinian, Somalian, Ethiopian, Albanian and scores of other Muslim friends but not my Malay friends for fear of their wrath.
However, in Malaysia we live in a multi racial, multi ethnic, multi religious environment. It needs two or more parties to engage in a controversy. If the Muslims are adamant that the word ‘Allah’ should not be used in the Christian publications, what is wrong in replacing it with Tuhan? It is immaterial how we address God, for he is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent and heeds every call. I am sure our Christian brothers are aware of this! Then why the futile battle ?
It is our ego that is bruised and we don’t want to be seen as losers in the eyes of the world. So we continue this so called spiritual battle in the courts of law. Look at the irony! To feed our ego, we drag God almighty to the courts and mortal men would decide whether He can be addressed as Allah or Tuhan. If we are truly spiritual in our endeavor, we should just drop this argument immediately and spread Gods message of Love to the whole world without any form of discrimination.
I truly believe in the maximum that “Hands that serve are holier than lips that pray”. We should win people’s heart and God’s love through our spiritual practices rather than projecting ourselves as champions of our religions. My two cents worth.
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written by Rozlan, March 01, 2009 09:54:45
Nothing in Islam prohibited the christians as well jews to refer GOD as ALLAH..It is only UMNO propaganda to show that they were true fighters of Islam..POOOOORAAAAAH
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written by TwilightYears, March 01, 2009 12:02:28
As usual, RPK's comments are as direct, simple to understand and very logical in sequence.

My knowledge in Islam is very elementary, read the Quran in the various English translation. I have better understanding through the comments posted in RPK's column, many of such readers are wise and possess knowledge in Islam and Christianity.

While in agreement on the argument posted by RPK, what I do not understand is that the root of the problem is ALLAH, Alif Lam Lam Ha. That the word "Allah" is an Arabic word is without doubt.

What I do not understand is that IS IT A BIG PROBLEM for the bible which is translated into Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Malaysia to use the word TUHAN instead of Allah. After all, the translation is to be in the Bahasa Malaysia version. This is above the logic of my simple mind. If the Catholics like to use the Arabic version of the bible, by all means use the word Allah or Elohim. This is plain and simple.

To many Muslims whom I know, they daren't use the word ALLAH for the HOLY NAME is just more than a name. It is Absolute ESSENCE that is beyond description. It has not description and no comparison. Within the 99 names of Allah, the word ALLAH, and AHAD (ONE) have no attributes. (Allah Forgive me is I err here.... by I am using the Intellec that Allah SWT has so Kindly bestowed upon human) The rest ammongst the 99 names have some attributes and thus the attributes of Ying and Yang, the pair of Opposites) The divine and absolute ESSENCE (ALLH) beyong description can never be use without care. At such a old age, I come to understand why many sincere Muslim shivered just by remembrance of ALLAH in this four arabic alphabets - Alif, Lam, Lam , HA. If, and if, the Malay Muslims fear of the misuse of this NAME, than it is understandable.

I, for one, for fear this word as much as fear HIS WRATH and as much as I sought HIS MERCY. One of the most unforgivable act to a good Muslim is to give partner to ALLAH, and saying that Allah is 3 in 1 or trinity is a crime NO MUSLIM would be able to bear. It is written somewhere that the word itself points to only AHAD (ONE) and only ONE. and use by those other than Muslim, the word has totally different meaning. Hopefully, I appear to the Catholics to have some understanding of the workings of the minds of many Muslims. For the information of non Muslims, many consider the word ALLAH - written in a 4 alphabet of ALLH - If you remove the A, the LLH refers to lillah - To Allah. and if you remove the letter L, it is Lahu, and it refers to HE. And if you remove the second alphabet L, it becomes Huwa and it is HE. All these signify that Allah is ONE and ALLAH is HUWA. A respect of such belief of the Absolute Essence of ALLAH which can is undescribable and transcend all attributes, one MUST respect the views of these Muslim in as much as I want to respect the views of the non Muslims who wanted to use the Arabic word "Allah" in their translation of the bible into Bahasa Malaysia.
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written by patlu, March 01, 2009 13:34:03
Are we not worshiping the same Allah? Muslims and Christians alike should be able to find common ground in its efforts to strive for peace and maintaining good relations with each other.

Even the word "Islam" itself stands for peace. Unity is our goal!

In disallowing the Christians to call God by the name "Allah", Muslims in Malaysia are indirectly trying to say this,"Our Allah is not your Allah", but let's see what the Quran says about this.

We can all look at this beautiful article here to find out more regarding Islam and its relationship towards other religions of the People of the Book: http://www.islamicity.com/arti...4-2977&p=2
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written by max_crazy, March 01, 2009 15:11:12
Honestly...if OURS LEADERS really understand quran,this country no more "CORRUPTION". smilies/grin.gif
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written by cheemengwong, March 01, 2009 15:26:48
Does it matter how we call GOD?

My simple brain tells me YES! The Arabs called their God Allah, so does many other people around the world. Can we stop them from doing so? NO!

Imagine your name is ALI and I call you Bakar! Is this OK with you?

GOD is for anyone who belief in HIM. If GOD is Allah and those who believe in Allah should call him such.

The Chinese have many gods... i.e Tua Pek Kong, Goddess of Mercy, Q onn Yiah and so on... If an Indian Hindu wants to call Lord Subra as Tua Pek Kong... I do not object. It only shows how stupid this Indian Hindu is.

Do you think the Catholics are stupid?
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written by CariJalan, March 01, 2009 16:17:14
Why Catholics and Christians Should Give up the Use of the Word 'ALLAH' - in speech and in print.

It doesn't matter if the use of the word 'Allah' for God predates Islam. The point is, if we begin on error, we will proceed and end in error too. As a devoted Christian of 35 years, I am appalled at Christian leaders' insistence on the use of that word.


"Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that we both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while we call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.

The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene."

"If you read the Qur'an's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs us to love our enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.

The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation. Since the Qur'an contains our only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Qur'an specifically denies the deity of Christ! All Christian witness ends right there."
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written by chelly, March 01, 2009 16:27:53
Its given that allah is a term for god in arabic and thus its only natural that the arabs will use allah as the word for god in any of their holy or non holy books,but the crux of the matter is that the bible thats been distributed in malaysia is in bahasa malaysia or bahasa indonesia, and there is a general word for god which is TUHAN,i dont see why tuhan cant be used since its a better choice of word and it relates to the use of bahasa malaysia or bahasa indonesia,instead on harping on the usage of allah why cant TUHAN which is a better and proper word be used in the context of the bible in bahasa malaysia,if there is no word to describe god in bahasa malaysia since the beginning of time and allah was the common word such as raja for king then i can agree with the catholic church insistence on using allah for their bible but there is already a word for god and doesnt it make sense to use TUHAN to describe god in the bible in bahasa malaysia.
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written by Melly, March 01, 2009 17:46:02
I did a quick check on wikipedia. Lo and behold, the word Allah is not the Arabic language monopoly. In fact, Hindu wrote(as correctly mentioned before) it with a - above the 4th letter a, whereas Arabic and Hebrew use and wrote in like manner.
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written by tokbahaman, March 01, 2009 21:37:17
I congratulate The Government of Malaysia for withdrawing the use of Allah in lieu of tuhan to be used by the Christian Herald and any non Islam text or speech.

Be it branded as a flip-flop decision. I support the decision.

Perhaps I am one of those stupid Muslim Malay as pointed out by YM RPK. So be it.

....
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written by Tlau, March 01, 2009 23:56:13
I always say ' alamak '. Is it barred? any relation to allah? any offence committed?
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written by SamBall, March 01, 2009 23:56:59
Yemeni harus resign...
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written by areenna, March 02, 2009 00:37:20
RAJA PETRA IS NOT AS CLEVER AS THE CHRISTIAN PUBLISHER.

Raja Petra writes in English and the article titled The stupidity of some Malay Muslims
is written English. Athough he want to educate Malay Muslim, his message likey didn't reach to stupid Malay Muslim masses. Its because majority of Malay Muslim don't really comprehend English. They prefer to read articles in Malay rather than Raja Petra's writing simply because they don't undertand English.

But the Christian publisher (Herald) is more clever, they know if they produce a Christian teaching booklets in Malay, then put the word Allah and without Untuk Agama Kristian on the cover it have better chances to reach Malay. Maybe no today, but slowly they will.

1. First they want to produce publications in Malay, they got it.
2. Then they insist to use the word Allah in it, they got it (for a while but will try again).
3. Then they refuse to print "Untuk Agama Kristian" on the cover (not yet will try in court).
4. They they want to distribute those material freely (KIV, for future developments, will find some ancient evidence in remote countries for suing purpose)

No need to write in Kadazan because the audience is so small. Better write in Malay the word Allah, the message will get better chance to reach Malay especially the stupid ones.

The Christian publisher is more clever than Raja Petra. They know how to reach the stupid Malay Muslim. Raja Petra is not clever as the Christian publisher in marketing department. Too bad.

Isn't it NOT CLEVER = STUPID?

BTW, heard that the Malay Bible with the word Allah published centuries ago was written by Tun Sri Lanang. Fascinating. What more fascinating is that Tun Sri Lanang was translating with a British gun pointed to his head.
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written by Melly, March 02, 2009 05:35:39
carijalan: 'The Spirit behind Islam' . Can you be more specific? Are there different spirits in Islam, apart from saitan & jinn? Is this what you are refering to or Allah in spirit form? If your answer is yes, then is it one spirit or two or more? The catholic church is saying we worship the one Abrahamic God, but silent on the teachings.
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written by Melly, March 02, 2009 05:54:39
areena:The church have already made available bibles in Bahasa since the 19th century, its not something new. 2) The church did not insist, she has been using the word Allah, again since the 19th century. 3)That is against the constitution on freedom of religion. Are we a democratic country or not? 4)What is wrong with distributing freely, I recieve a Koran (Abd. Yusuf Ali) for free. What is the point of jumping up and down when something is given free. What I do with it, is my free choice.5)Tun Sri Lanang's case, To be fair, please qualify with material proof. Since this case is E. Malaysia centric, one has to take E. Malaysians into context.
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written by lokenpal, March 02, 2009 06:21:27
I wonder what happens if title was changed from "The stupidity of some Malay Muslims" to "The stupidity of some Indian Chinese Christian and Hindus".
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written by alan cheong, March 02, 2009 09:20:29
LOL
How apt, Peter, how apt; however, it isn't merely "some" - more like the majority.
This "majority" includes the griping and whining cowards who do NOT (dare) speak up or make a stand for righteousness. Instead they choose to remain silent and sponge off wotever discriminatory policies.

One commented it should be "ignorance" - "stupidity" is when you KNOW but you REFRAIN from doing anything about it, leading to dire consequences. This equals "wickedness".

Hatz off to Berean and Anak Kampung (succinctly put and well witnessed the both of ye).

If we had more like Tawfik Hamid.

CariJalan, spot on.


lokenpal, if the title was changed, those of us who are mature, would most probably agree AND laugh at ourselves and along with it.
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written by snipersnake, March 02, 2009 10:03:54
Salam Pete.

Usually, I agree with most of your article. But this one, I have to say I have to disagree.

Frist of all, the Bible that Christians have today,is actually from King James Version. In this Bible, can you please show me, the word Allah there? The only Bible that has Allah word is the Indon Bible.To add to that, Bible was compiled after Jesus was lifted to the heavens, some 300years after that. The compilers never met Jesus in the first place.

Second of all, Jesus (Isa alaihi sallam) was a Jew. Injil was revealed to him in Hebrew. And in Hebrew, the word Elohim, (אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים ) means God. As simple as that. Allah in the other hand, is a name given by Allah to Himself, to portray His greatness and mercy towards the universe. In Quran, we have 99 names of Allah, all suited with attributes as the Creator.

Of course, if you go to Arabia, words like assalamualaikum, masyallah, wallahi are used by people there regardless of their religion. But you have to remember, those words have already reached the 'culture' state, because they are Arabs. To add to that, those are Arabic words.But over there, try asking those Christian arabs, if they refer their God as Allah smilies/grin.gif

But in Malaysia, anything Arabic = ISlam. Have you conveyed salam to your non muslim buddies? I have to tell you, if you do, they will give that puzzled look.In this case, as Muslims, we have to secure that word as exclusive to Muslims.

1. It is in the Quran.
2. It has been stated by the Prophet, means Muhammad saw reffered to God as Allah.
3. Nobody knows EXACTLY what Jesus reffered to God as. This is because there are NO VALID documents that tells us so. Maybe he reffered to God not as Elohim, but as Allah. Who knows? Reason? You go to any muslim country, any part of the world, any of them refer to God as other than Allah?
This is one of the signals of the coming of end of days, when non muslims are joining muslim matters.

I urge Muslims, not to interpret Quran using logic reasoning only, it must also involve hadis and the history of the prophet.
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Allah knows best.
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written by snipersnake, March 02, 2009 10:08:20
And Pete one thing.

Lets just say, the word Allah is allowed to be used in the Bible.

Do you think that the word Allah in the Bible referes to the same Allah in the Quran?
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written by snipersnake, March 02, 2009 10:30:34
I agree our government is like extremely corrupted. But some things, they did correctly. Like this issue. To all muslims here, have it occured to you, if this step is not correct, why we have not heard or read ANY COMPLAINTS from ulama?I know not all Ulama have political motives, but why they didnt complain?

And for those people who thinks RPK is a Muslim scholar, I have to disagree. Muslim scholars like Al Qardawhi,Imam Malik, Imam Hambali, Imam As Sayuti, or the great hadis compiler Imam Bukhari has one thing in common, they were scholars in Arabic language. To be a muslims scholar, a strong grasp in Arabic language is vital. This is because the divine text, sirahs, hadis etc were written in arabic. Nothing against you Pete, but I feel as a Muslim, I have to set the record straight here. At least in front of Allah (the one us muslims worship) I have done my part should He ask me later his court. Again I state, do not depend 100% on human logic to interprete Quran or shariah. Its extremely dangerous.
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written by singam, March 02, 2009 11:08:40
Many people have had much to say about whether or not the Christian God is the same as the Muslim God. May I share with you something inspiring I read here http://tinyurl.com/bj4nkl. I hope this brings more clarity than confusion.

Counselor Shahul Hameed wrote...

I quote Harun Yahya when he says :

“Concerning the People of the Book, God gives Muslims a command in the Qur’an; to rally to a common formula, when He says what means:

*{O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God...}* (Aal `Imran 3:64)

This is, indeed, our call to Christians and Jews: As people who believe in God and follow His revelations, let us rally to a common formula—faith. Let’s love God, Who is our Creator and Lord, and follow His commands. And let us pray God to lead us to an even straighter path.

When Muslims, Christians, and Jews rally to a common formula this way; when they understand that they are friends not enemies; when they see that the real enemy is atheism and paganism; then the world will become a very different place.

The fighting that has raged for ages, enmities, fears—and terrorist attacks—will come to an end and a new civilization based on love, respect, and peace will be established upon this common formula."

And Allah knows best.

To me, it seems clear that, while Muslims can say Christians have deviated away from Allah's command, they cannot say the Christians pray to a different God. Jews, Christians and Muslims pray to the God of Abraham.

Ameen.
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written by snipersnake, March 02, 2009 11:24:48
But Allah in Bible has a son, but Allah in Qurans has no father or nor does He has a son.

And Arabic word for God is Rabb. Study arabic language first before making such claim. And please do state the source of Allah as the Head Pagan God before Islam. I found this claim,'interesting'.
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written by joeawk, March 02, 2009 13:52:56
If the malay mindset does not change, it is goona get lefty behind by civilsation and UMNO should be blamed.

UMNO has actually become the enemy of civilisation through all it's propaganda to adversely manipulate the minds of the malays in general.
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written by Su Dhanoa, March 02, 2009 14:07:17
All of know how satanly corrupted are these same so called narrow minded and ignorant fools who run the country. Some of them are murderers, cheaters, rapists,thiefs, liers, involved in sex scandals and extra marital sex with anyone that wears a skirt, etc, etc. When questioned / asked to look into the these issues, their mouths gets locked, no comments what-so-ever. But when it comes to the issues of religious matters - everyone become learned scholars, Imams or Ulamaks!! What they forget is that the day of judgement shall come and they will regret and repent, and then it will be too late for the breath of life shall leave their body!!
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written by AIS, March 02, 2009 14:29:00
Hi Pete,

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” said Jesus on the cross. In Aramaic this is: "Eli, Eli, l'mana Sabachtani?"

I believe the above for the christians is translated differently...I think for the christians it's "Father oh Father, why have Thou forsaken me"..it's 'father, instead of God'

This is where there could be confusion when then Allah is used to be referred to as christian god in this context. Imagine a third person re-telling or preaching in christian context....."allah anak pun mengeluh kepada allah bapa...etc" This for muslims is not monotheist...it's 'menyekutukan Tuhan' and not acceptable...

I suppose the usage of Allah is allowed with restriction in regards to creating confusion such as the above.The one God is still one and Allah is 'The God' in arabic but the context of use must not contradict the beliefs of Allah for the muslims. Allah is the name of God as coined by Islam anyway so if you believe in One God and want to refer to Him as Allah then you must respect the sanctity of the name according to Islamic faith...Else, He is the sole creator, not two, not plural, not one plus one plus one equals to one, just One

Wassalam...
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written by Taiping60, March 02, 2009 17:31:02
You are right RPK. I think our authorities are focusing too much on the form rather than substance.

Religion is a personal thing between one and God. Let is be that way. Keep politic out.
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written by tamanani, March 02, 2009 19:21:44
Allah is the Lord Almighty.
to Allah we all belong and to Allah we shall all return.
Allah sent so many prophets and apostles. All of them were sent for by the same Lord.
To guide mankind.
The last being Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasalam. And Allah has commanded mankind to follow him.
Allah is the Lord Almighty.
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written by Vince, March 03, 2009 09:00:33
Good general knowledge RPK, I really didn't know that. Now like you said, why are the Malays in Malaysia so narrow minded?
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written by locomotive, March 03, 2009 13:28:12
written by borneoman, February 27, 2009 16:56:19
i wish all malaysian muslim and even muslim through out the world think like you RPK.

if you this happened.. there would be a good muslim rather a truth muslims
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written by locomotive, March 03, 2009 15:16:27
RKP
the more u talk about Islam, the more stupid u look to me..
Bro, all Imam's Syafie, Hambali, Maliki, ibnu Abbas, Saidina Ali, Abu Bakar, Ghazali,
Hanafi learns Islam day and night, travels all around arab peninsular before start talking and writing about Islam.
Islam is not all about common sense.

but wat annoying me most is why the non muslim ang mulims liberal like rpk telling me wat muslim should be like.
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written by locomotive, March 03, 2009 15:18:37
hey!! even prophet Muhammad learn Islam from Jibrail non-stop day and night for almost 23 years till his death.

and mind you Muhammmad pbuh dont even smoke, drink beer and go to bar like u...
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written by locomotive, March 03, 2009 15:38:55
and Muhammd pbuh companions ('sahabat'/sahabah/friend) learn about IsLaM directly from him,
tabi'in (generation of Muslims who were born after the death of Muhammad) learn Islam directly from 'Sahabah',
tabi al'tabi'in (is the generation after the Tabi'in ) learn Islam directly from Tabi'in.. the process goes by generations until now..
my point is.. to know Islam is you should learn from Ustaz, or Tok guru, islamic scholars out there (face to face) and not just ****** and read bout it.

and out of nowhere all of a sudden someone(Muslim) who dont realy learn about islam talk bout Islam.. and even funnier RPK ass kisser (mostly chinese) tell wat is right wat is wrong about Islam.
who is the parrot here?
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written by Admiral Tojo, March 04, 2009 11:13:44
Locomotive,
you are the parrot and it is confirmed. You still think that the Arab Religion is ISLAM? According to the Quran, the Arab Religion is not ISLAM. ISLAM is the DEEN and NOT a Religion. So how?

You still think Arab folklores and myths are historical truth. Go read some more.

Shalom

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written by anon, March 05, 2009 16:58:07
I just read that the nons are forbidden to use Arabic words like: Allah, Solat, Kaabah, Baitullah. I laughed with a mixture of disbelief and disgust.

So those words now belong to the Malays? I mean these Malay Muslims? The morons are getting larger as each day passes.

How much,more parochial can these ignorant morons get? This is beyond my comprehension.

Allah now belongs to the Malays/Muslims. Translated it simply means ... God now belongs to the Malays/Muslims.

So what's next? Okay so I'm a damn kafir writing this. But at least I am an educated kafir who knows much more than a lot of moronic Malay (so-called) Muslims.

I believe Pete's article just about covers it all. Heck, take a look and you will see some of the morons commenting like a pack of disturbed monkeys in here.

Reminds me of Pete's 'Arabisation' of the Malays in this land.

You ignorant Malays remember this - you too migrated - from Southern China - among other places. You are not Bumis, you do not deserve any special rights - you are all like the rest of us - migrants from another country.

Stay as a Malay and be proud to be one - do not make a fool of yourself by acting and dressing like an Arab - A lot of Arabs love going to London (among other places) to have a jolly good time) then go back and act like they have never seen a woman outside their land.

Ya Allah, ya Tuhanku. Oh, God, Oh my God.

Cheers, salute and all.
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