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Allah is not the monopoly of any man or any authority.
(our 3rd class politicians and pseudo-religious intellectuals certainly is an illegitimate authority)

Imagine - now even words and names can be exclusive owned, and others strategically excluded - how asinine!!!

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神, UN DIEU, GOTT, Θεός, DIO, 신, DEUS, бог are all the callings of the word GOD in different languages.

So Allah, please punish those who use YOU as a POLITIC weapon.

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I disagree with rajaphillips loh. I think its the Ministry who has been childish in not allowing christian to use the word "Allah". It has been use for umpteen years. If christian are to say "no problem, we can use other words" they is no assurance that what the ministry will come up next!

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OK, I challenge you Badawi, Najis and Botak to lock all those Catholic Priests and office bearers up. ISA them la if you got the GUTS. Don't la just TALK only. The moment you do it, the whole world will BUY Malaysia LAST.

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rajaphillips:
The bolehland gomen of umNO does not have a copyright of the word ALLAH.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Allah is the standard Arabic word for 'God.' While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God". The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.

So next time they trample on your right, you just give in and finish with it That's why the wing of the Nazi Party of Malaysia umNO is still ruling after half a century.

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To rajaphillips,
History has proven many times, when people give in to tyrants and dictators, their situation worsens instead of improving. We cannot allow the tyrants in UMNO to commit an obvious wrong without registering our opposition. We owe this, at least, to our children and grandchildren

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In the first place, we have a very stupid Home Minster. Why should the catholics put up with his childishness and stupidity? 2008/09 is witness to how dumb he is getting.

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rajaphillips,

It is not the issue of utilizing the word "allah" that is the problem...it is more suppression of religious freedom and tolerance enshrined in our constituition by our current government.This problem isn't isolated. i have personally witness police tearing down banners with the word "allah" and local council denying the rights to extend church facilities .I do not know if you are aware that special days are allocated in the Catholic calendar for Bahasa Melayu masses catered towards the Catholic Indonesian and Papuan community in Malaysia. I feel that by using the word, it enhances what is uniquely Malaysian, which is a multicultured society.
The Herald has the rights to stake the claim as "Allah" it is not confined to one religioun "Allah belongs to all an is not confined to one religious faith.

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We Buddhists throughout the world unequivocally agree to allow any religion in this universe to address their God or gods as Amitabha.We are not worry at all,infact we are very happy.

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Allah is not a registered trade mark.Anybody can use it.Even those in Sungei Buloh can call out to Allah if they are dying and ask Allah to have mercy on their bloody soul.Even those sinners and corrupted can ask Allah for forgiveness,plus those drug addict ,who when run out of drugs will cried out aloud for Allah 's help .

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rajaphillips, For unteem years the Bahasa Version of the Bible has been using the word Allah for God the Father and Tuhan in reference to Jesus and Roh Kudus for the Holy Spirit, how do you ask the Bumiputra Christians in Sabah and Sarawak to change that? Its the Christians right to use the word Allah as its origin is Arabic. By the way, why after so many many years then all of a sudden the Islamic dept suddenly want to focus on this matter

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Rajaphilips,

The Quranic division should not instruct the church not to use the word since the case is pending in the court. It made it a 'do you die, don't do also die".

If Herald continue to use Allah, it was threatened with a revoke of the permit. If it does not use, then government would win the Allah suit case. Both ways, UMNO wins. So, it is more sensible then to fight for what is just, in this case the freedom to use BM words in worship. Hope this writting will make you understand why the Catholic church is in the bind.

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hahaha..ahmadneil...your twisted mind never cease to amaze me....could be a mark of a genius or plain crazy...love it..keep it up bro...

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rajaphilips,
it is ppl like u that makes UMNO thrive and grow into a big bully.

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rajaphilips thanks for suggesting us to ****** "Allah".. guess what I found:

http://www.godallah.com/
The word "Allah" is the perfect description of the "One God" of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims!

Is "Allah" only for Islam and Muslims?
[No! It is for All Three Abrahamic Faiths.]

"Allah" is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came.

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RajaPhilips,

i dont know what ur faith is and come one day if the big bully comes and restrict the use of ur God's anme for whatever reason, will u just give in?

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The word "Allah' also exists in Sanskrit. How now?

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Welcome To Bodohland!

How can you ask those Bahasa Malaysia Speaking Catholics to not to use the word 'Allah' as they are using it for ages!. Most of the Christian words are translated from Indonesia which is an Islamic dominated country. How can the government interfere in other people's religion? Are they above than God? Why you have to worry about other people's religion Mr. Shit Hamid? Because your faith is not strong?

Though we have our differences in religion. But our faith to God has to be strong. We need to understand other religions more clearly. No religion ask us to fight with each other. It's only our narrow minded leaders!

BTW, if Herald cant use Bahasa Malaysia, please print it in Bahasa Indonesia.

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The Home Minister has a brain size smaller than an ostrich's eye. He is burying his head in the sand. Total and utter arrogance is what UMNO is about. Even the common Malay man on the street does not care or bother if someone,s else uses Allah's name.They ara worried more about their nasi periok.Infact Muslims should be proud that others are using his name too to worship and pray and bring about closer understanding and tolerance among the various religions and races.

No..UMNO wants to play up to the gallery. We the Ketuanan Melayu own Allah. He is our servant and we are his Master.for he follows our instructions. As owners of Allah we demand that all others stop using this word..It seems like they are playing the God's God..

I have never seen and met a bunch of idiots or morons who can lay claim to this word. Arabic as it is I do not know how it can be diMelayukan. I suppose it is based on the illogical thinking that once you embrace UMNO's Islam whether you are an Indian like Mahathir or a Chinese..automaticlly you are diMelayukan. And as discovered 90% of UMNO leaders are not Malay Malays anyway...They are the sheeep in Malay clothing..or baju Melayu...for it is an opportunity to wallop the Malay share of the cake the ;NEP

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By virtue of the word Allah being used in Herald's BM publications for umpteen years and the govt was not saying anything about it than, by default, Herald has claim the rights to use the word Allah in all their BM publications. This is similar to the Pulau Batu Puteh tragedy. Ameno, you can't change the word now because BM bible reading Christians esp in Sabah & Sarawak will be confused and become disillusion. There are extensive studies done on this and Herald's lawyer may use this supplementary point to argue their case.

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"written by mawi, January 20, 2009 16:48:43
So, use Allah when you speak or write in sanskrit. Use Allah when you speak or write in Arabic. Use god when it is in English. Pakai ayat "Tuhan" bila berbahasa Malaysia.And yes, use :"Amitabha" in replace of Allah if you insist on mixing languages. That terminology of god is more universal in its usage Don't put words into people's mouth by saying Allah is only for Muslims."

The above thinking is immature. Generally there should not be any problem with borrowing and using foreign words for any language. Languages become richer, more useful and effective when foreign words are added to their normal vocabulary. There are thousands of foreign words in the English vocabulary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_English_words_of_foreign_origin

IMO, the prohibition on the use of the word “Allah” by some is fundamentally driven by unconscious fears, psychological insecurities and low self-esteem. I don’t think Christians (me-not-one) are trying to convert others by relying on the word “Allah”. It has more to do with Semiotics.

Semiotics is the study of the whole relation between words and its meaning taking into account every of its human related perspectives and contexts, which include, semantics, language, culture, social, psychological, emotional, etc.

In addition to the above, a word forms the following relation with its meaning, i.e. Word –> sense –> sign –> referent.
Thus ‘apple’ –> fruit sense -> the word/symbol ‘apple’ –> the real physical apple.
In the case of God, it is abstract and therefore it is not easy to link it to the word that is used to represent it. Because it is abstract, the associated semiotic factors thus become very important. When Christians first used the word “Allah” they would have used it embedded with the biblical semiotic factors. I am sure they did not use in the Arabic-Quranic Islamic context.

For those who were introduced to the word “Allah” from the Christian perspective, the whole meaning of 'what-is-god' came with a full semiotic package together with the word “Allah”. Therefore, if the word “Allah” is replaced with the word “Tuhan”, the complete semiotic essence, i.e. the ‘word –> sense –> sign –> referent’ that is associated with the social, psychological and emotional perspective would have been lost. The word “Tuhan” would be meaningless without its original semiotic essence.

The government must understand the semiotic factors and allow “Allah” to be used for BM Bible as it had been done so for centuries elsewhere. I am sure the Christians would not want to use the word “Allah” to represent their god if this is the first time they are translating the Bible to BM or B. Indonesia. They had to do it now due the inevitable associated semiotic factors. Meantime, the Christian world should voluntarily put in concerted efforts and plans to wean their believers from associating God with the word ‘Allah’.

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No, the Herald should stand firm and fight this to the end. No one has the right to prevent others from calling God in any language he choses. In Sabah and Sarawak, the natives have been calling God Allah since embracing Christianity since colonial times. It's only the stupid politicians and the religious lunatics who think God will favor them over others. You give up the fight now and soon they will push you to the wall with another of their religious proclamations.

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rajaphillips,
Do you think this is only about the Catholic church where this matter is concerned? Hardly, RP - it's about your rights as well! It about the rights of every single Malaysian regardless of color or creed, as guaranteed by the Federal Constitution. It is ignorance such as yours that makes the United Malaysian Nazi Organization thrive and strip Malaysians of their rights - slowly but surely.

Despite being (supposedly) a Catholic/Christian, I too do not entirely agree with its usage where "correctness" is concerned - however, that is besides the point. It is the right to use the word that is the issue here. You confuse the "political correctness" of word "Allah", with your "right" to use the word! The former is debatable, while the latter is non-negotiable.

The fact remains that no politician holds the patent to the word, and it is your right to use the word, or any other to refer to your God (if you believe in one).
In fact, you could even call him "Jack", and there is nothing that anyone can do to take that right away from you.

Get one thing straight RP - Your right to freedom worship without interference of the authorities is guaranteed in the Federal Constitution, just as your freedom to peaceful assembly. Just as the freedom of assembly for the citizens has been stripped with the various acts passed by the legislature through guile & deceit (and maybe even threats/intimidation), this right is also sought to be stripped from you. It is how they encroach and trample upon you, sooner or later!

If & when all is lost, it is people like you (don't worry - I was in that boat once) who start crying foul, oblivious to the fact that it was your own blissful ignorance and gullibility to Nazi propaganda, that was the main factor in encouraging politicians to strip you of your rights!

Once you give up that right RP, there's no telling what you'll have to do to get it back - just take a look at how they try to break up every gathering which they do not approve of, even if the participants are peaceful. Read the Police Act on top of the ISA, and you'll know what I mean - you are apparently a criminal whether you like it or not, and you live "free" only because they allow you to, and not becos it is your right to be free.

That is what power is all about - they criminalize you, so that you live at their mercy. Think hard, before you accuse others of childishness when people fight for your rights!

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BTW Mawi,
If I wish to use kadavule, tuhan, Gott, Allah, Yahweh, mawi or even Jack while praying in Japanese, no matter how ridiculous it may sound to you, and my church approves of it, it is none of your business - and the Federal Constitution demands that it remains none of your business!
Get that fact right!

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I disagree with rajaphillips on the point that the Herald should use the word God instead of Allah in the BM version of the Bible. He fails to see the woods for the trees, as the issue is not just about the word Allah per se. It is about suppression of other faiths, as pointed out by some other commentators.Today it is the use of Allah, then the attempt to suppress the use of BM. All can guess at what's next that they will do to the Christian faith. Too many attempts has been made, and continue to be made against the Christian and Hindu faith. Would it be a surprise if the next non- islamic faith is also put through the same pressure?

Should they succeed in their objective of putting obstacles in the path of one faith, it is only logical that they will go after the next, and the next and the next.

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God's real name is Susan. She told me last night.

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What is the problem? If the controvesial Mufti Perak can said Jesus in front of TV3 News interview, what wrong with Herald using 'Allah"? The word is universal.

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rajaphilips, this has nothing to do with the origin of the word. No one can stop someone else from using any word. Only the Catholic Church should make the decision on which word to use without any "compulsion". Prohibiting them to use words of their choice is interfering in their religion and is an offense under the Constitution. This matter should be brought up and settled in the world court to decide. The govt is a big bully and is currently suffering from denial and insecurity. They are a bunch of losers and have nothing better to do.

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RP,
You still don't get it?
Let try to spell it out to you (and mawi, too) one last time ...

The Guru Granth Sahib uses the word Allah to refer to God!
Who are you to say it is wrong and that the word belongs to Muslims and Arabs? Are you aware that Arab christians use the word - of course you are. And mind you, Christianity was in Arabia long before the advent of Islam.
So, since when has this word been unique to Islam? Never.

Now, if a non-Arab Muslim can preach and publish Islamic literature in any other language using the word Allah, can you give me one good reason why anybody else cannot do the same when preaching theirs?

Hell man - I can take a Japanese word and make it English! What makes you say that I cannot take an Arab/ Sanskrit/ Punjabi word to make it Malay?
And FYI, Allah is also a derivative of "El", "Eli" and what not - hence it isn't "arabic" in origin!

This is not about religion, race, or language - don't let yourself get misled.
It isn't about the Herald, the Catholic Church or whatever - that's just the "wayang".
It's more than that, friend - It's about the desire of certain quarters who wish to exercise control over you. The non-Muslim houses of worship are one of the last institutions that have attained a certain degree of autonomy in managing their affairs- and they wish to take that away from you.

They have soiled the Judiciary, the civil service, the parliament, the royalty, the police, the education, the economy, and even society as a whole.
They now seek to twist your mind & soil your conscience, so that you do not believe that it affects you, when another gets persecuted.
Should they get away with doing this, there's no telling what they will do next, to persecute the citizens - this is the last straw.

Do you remember how they recently tried to stop "pournami pooja" at the temple in Kerling lately? This is about them trying to encroach into your house of worship - this being the sole institution that they don't have authority over.

They want to paint the issue as being a sensitive issue, so that they can control even houses of worship that aren't of Islam - which is protected by the Federal Constitution. They will play up more issues as having sensitive repercussions so as to encroach further into constitutionally forbidden territories
It is about Freedom of religion - Article 11!!

Nobody cares if the pagan referred to the moon god, or the kitchen god, or the toilet god, using whatever word!
If to me it means what I like to refer to what I like, it is my choice - what makes the adjudicator of what I believe is right? Like I said, I can call my God Jack, "mawi" or "RP", and it is within my right to do so.
Moreover, last I checked the constitution, it says that it is none of your business.

It is not about the political correctness of the word, RP - it is about your Constitutional Right to practice your faith as you see fit, without the interference of state/politicians!
Allah issue is just where they "test" the waters.

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Say NO NO NO to the Ayatollahs !!!
(stop mindlessly accepting their illegitimate authority)

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rajaphilips:
You are contradicting your arguments with the reasons you're giving. You said the word ALLAH has been used before Islam was created. Therefore, it does not belong to Islam!!!

This has led to a situation like applying patents for a technology. If the technology is being used commercially before a patent is applied, it is no longer a valid patent. In this case, the government cannot ban the Herald from printing just because the word Allah is mainly used by Muslims

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Actually, God is so fed-up with the government that HE has decided to change his name Obama. So can the parties stop fighting over God's ex-name now?

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Cruzeiro, thanks. Your painstaking explanation appreciated and I also see the point esp about these Umno rascals putting their fingers, their dirty soiled fingers into the non-muslim places of worship. Rest of you guys too, thanks. This exchange between us was good and I believe many who read it, now have a clearer picture of the issue.

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To Rajaphilips

The Catholic Church cannot be brow beaten into rejecting the term Allah which has been used by Orang Asli Christians and East Malaysian Christians for generations just because UMNO illegally has chosen to 'copyright' Allah.

On whose authority do they do so? It is not a Malay term so what justification does this Malay organisation have in hijacking the term Allah?

If UMNO is familiar with the Koran, then it would be clear to them that Allah is the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. So where is the problem? Why is UMNO trying to alter the message of Prophet Muhammed?

Is UMNO the latest messenger of Allah who has come to inform the world that the Koran is wrong and that Muhammed introduced 'Satanic Verses' which claimed that Allah was the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims?

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Isn't "Tuhan" the proper way to address Allah/God in Bahasa Malaysia?

"Allah" is pre-Islamic Arabic, while "God" is in the English language.
So, what is the big deal in using the proper term "Tuhan" for Allah/God in Bahasa Malaysia?

Be the word Allah/God/Tuhan, it still stands for the name of the "One True God".
If this goes to trail, the Home Ministry know it has no leg to stand on, but it now has to "save face" for their stupidity and overtly zealous in coveting of the name for their faith.

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mawi, what cock are u talking la? Since when did I say that Allah was only for muslims? Allah is a universal word la brader. U had too many drinks or what? Make sure your head (not the one in ur pants) is screwed on right first before shooting off your mouth.

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It is really a religious 'brand' war. To make the Islamic Brand unique in Malaysia, UMNO has to create a difference between the Muslim's God and the other's God, and one way is to claim the control over an exclusive name of God. In this case, it is Allah!

Consider this. If both the Christians and Muslims are praying to Allah, then it implies that both are praying to the same God, and this will beg the questions, "Why the need for 2 religions if their God is the same entity?" or "Who would God be siding in a struggle between them?". Since God is not going to personally come down to make a declaration, it is left to those holding power to decide who can use what GOD'S name and who can't. If no one party gives in, and fighting for God is sufficient for some to even die, then a 'holy war' of sought will ensure lah.

If we can accept that monothist religions are not about reason or tolerance (although, you hear them make the claim) but blind faith, you can understand why all these are happening. Take my word, both sides will tie themselves to a corner so much so they they will end with a battle to the death of sought! The show has began!

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UMNO can actually persuade the Catholic Church to drop the word ALLAH and use the word TUHAN, since all present Malay Bibles use the word ALLAH, UMNO should sponsor re-printing of all Bibles with the replacement word TUHAN and give to the Christians free of charge.

Each Christian is entitled to one free copy of Modified Holy Bible from UMNO, there is only one hiccup though, they can stop the Malaysian Christian in using the word ALLAH, but they can't stop the Arab Christians from using it!

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