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Checkmate! (With Mandarin Translation) PDF Print
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Tuesday, 13 January 2009 00:00

"If any problems occur, we will resolve it through musyawarah, that is through discussions. All three parties must hold discussions. And if a consensus is not reached, it must be discussed again. This means, should PKR and PAS agree to implement hudud and DAP disagrees, then it cannot be implemented. Everything must be discussed until all three parties agree." – Lim Guan Eng

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

For the last week since Nomination Day, the government-owned mass media has been playing up the non-issue of Islamic laws or Hudud. Khairy Jamaluddin, the Prime Minister’s son-in-law, has been going around proudly telling his Umno Youth audience all over Kuala Terengganu that it was he who very cleverly trapped Husam Musa into making his (Husam’s) booboo statement on Hudud.

The Star, the New Straits Times, TV3, and any organ that may reach the Chinese audience, have been mobilised to challenge DAP and PKR on its stand on Hudud. They very carefully did not make any mention of Umno’s stand, though, lest the 89% Malay voters in Kuala Terengganu get an impression that Umno is hostile towards Islam. To undertake this ‘hatchet job’, Umno uses MCA, its running dog, while Umno keeps a deafening silence on the issue.

Yesterday, PAS, DAP and PKR made history by agreeing that any policy decision must be made through consensus. A simple majority is not enough. All three -- PAS, DAP and PKR -- have to agree on whatever policy matters. Even if there were one dissenting voice, this would mean the policy would not be accepted. It must be all three or nothing at all. And this will include matters related to Islam and whatever comes with Islam, Islamic laws or Hudud included.

Pakatan Rakyat has turned the tables on Barisan Nasional. It is now checkmate. The only issue that Barisan Nasional has in which to use against Pakatan Rakyat in the Kuala Terengganu by-election is Husam’s slip-of-the-lips. The Pakatan Rakyat candidate, Wahid Endut, is spotless. He has no baggage, unlike the Barisan Nasional candidate, Wan Farid Wan Salleh. So, in the absence of any tangible issues, the Hudud issue is the only thing they can use, however frivolous it may be.

It appeared like Barisan Nasional may have hit a home run on the issue. Some Chinese were beginning to believe the media spin and were asking what Pakatan Rakyat’s stand on the issue is. The number of doubters may be small. But in an election where a mere few hundred votes will determine the winner, every vote counts.

Then, yesterday, Pakatan Rakyat’s historic agreement that a consensus is required before any policy decisions can be made was reached. And, last night, in the Ocean Restaurant overlooking the South China Sea, in front of almost 1,000 ecstatic and applauding local Chinese voters, the Penang Chief Minister, Lim Guan Eng, announced the agreement reached between the three partners of Pakatan Rakyat.

Pakatan Rakyat has practically killed the issue of Hudud, not only for the Kuala Terengganu by-election but forever. Now that the issue has been buried, what is Barisan Nasional’s next move? There are only five more days till Polling Day. Can Barisan Nasional pull a rabbit out of the hat at this late stage of the campaign? Let’s wait and see. In the meantime, Malaysia Today too has a last Scud missile to fire at the Barisan Nasional candidate. But we shall wait to see what they do before we fire it.

Malaysia Today reporting from Ground Zero on the battlefield of Kuala Terengganu. Till we speak again, take care and stay tuned.

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《毫不留情》将军,死棋!


*"若有任何问题,我们会去musyawarah, 也就是商讨。所有三个政党一定要商讨。 若不能达致一致的意见,就需要再商讨。这就是说,

若公正党和回教党赞成回教刑 事法,而行动党不赞同的话,那就不能够实施。所有事情都需要商讨直到三党同意 为止。" – 林冠英
*

自提名日以来的一个星期,政府控制的媒体都在炒作一个不存在的课题:回教刑事 法。首相女婿凯里,很得意地到处去告诉瓜丁巫青团的人,是他很巧妙地诱导 Husam Musa掉入他做的陷阱,让他做出有关回教刑事法的言论。

星报,新海峡时报,第三电视以及任何有华人利用的媒体,都被全体总动员,挑战 行动党和公正党有关他们对回教刑事法的立场。他们很小心地没有提到巫统的立 场,不然的话,在瓜丁占了总选民89%的马来选民会觉得巫统对回教存怀敌意。因 此,为了完成这份‘不光彩’的事,巫统利用了他的走狗马华,而巫统自己就在这课 题上保持沉默以自保。

昨天,回教党,行动党和公正党达致历史性的一致意见,说任何政治决定必须建立 在共识上。而简单的大多数意见是不足够的。所有三个政党必须一致同意所有施政 课题。若有任何反对的意见,就表示说有关政策是不能被接受的。必须是所有三个 同意,不然就不行。而这也将包括涉及回教的事情,包括回教刑事法。

民联如今扭转了局面,把国阵逼入死巷。将军,死棋!国阵在瓜丁补选唯一能够用 来对付民联的课题就是Husam的说溜嘴。民联的候选人Wahid Endut纯洁无疵。他也 没有包袱,不像国阵候选人Wan Farid Wan Salleh那样。所以,在没有任何实体的 课题下,回教刑事法是他们唯一能够利用的课题,就算是毫无意义的。

外表看来,国阵似乎在这个课题上押对了宝。一些华人开始相信媒体的歪曲,并开 始询问民联在这课题上的立场。这些质疑的人也许很少,但在一场以几百张票决定 胜负的选举中,每一张票都重要。

然后,在昨天,民联达致历史性的共识,说任何政治决定都必须是一致的。而在昨 晚,在面向南中国海的海洋餐厅,在约1000名欣喜的当地华人选民面前,槟州首长 林冠英宣布了民联三党的这项议决。

民联因此一了百了的解决了回教刑事法的课题,不只是在这场补选中。现在这课题 已经完结了,国阵的下一步是什么呢? 投票日还有剩下五天。国阵还可以在这竞选 末期耍出什么花招呢? 让我们走着瞧吧。与此同时,《今日大马》还有最后一个杀手 铨对付国阵候选人。但在此之前,我们要看看他们会出哪一招。

《今日大马》瓜丁战场的报导到此为止,我们下次再见,还请大家耐心等待。
 

Comments (85)Add Comment
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written by Bigjoe99, January 12, 2009 08:55:33
The checkmate was when RPK and LGE hugged. Its worth the cover and front page of all papers and magazine in this country. RPK is a political stud....
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written by ahmadneil, January 12, 2009 08:55:43
So umno is packing up .After all they have nothing more to say.Packing today is better than packing up on the 17 Jan 2009.
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written by ahmadneil, January 12, 2009 08:58:01
So MT,reporting from ground zero is safe or not!Don't get hit by armno!Show umno they way ,filled with landmines.
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written by karpi77, January 12, 2009 08:59:00
YB Lim guan eng you are the really humble leader,good attitude,nice personality.

Vote for Pakatan.
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written by ahmadneil, January 12, 2009 08:59:14
I tell you,looking at the face of these chinese ,I know they have already decided to vote PAS.
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written by teo siew chin, January 12, 2009 09:03:59
If not, guess who's gonna be there to whack the bejesus out of them with a big stick! And we KNOW who's got a real big stick ya! (And that includes you -the guy with the camera!Impressive work people - very impressive.
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written by loosecannon, January 12, 2009 09:05:18
After checkmate, it's GAME. Another win for PR.

Don't rest on your laurel, PR. Go for the jugular now. In spite of the obscene amount of bribes using rakyat's money and frauds, they are going to lose. Make them lose big.
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written by Rashid, January 12, 2009 09:06:21
The Umno candidate is arrogant and aloof. How would he feel the pains of the people and their suffering? Look at the disdain on his face as he talks to the poor and how he puts his hands in his pocket?
[img=http://3.bp.********.com/_tC9N6KKZgsQ/SWjdTZi7gkI/AAAAAAAABoI/yn0rEKZBu_Q/s400/TERBAKAR2.JPG
On the other hand, the Pas candidate is pro-people, humane, very commpassionate and also lovable.
http://www.harakahdaily.net/images/stories/utama/pic_wan_zahari/wanz_2008/calon brsama rakyat2.jpg]
The Umno candidate doesn't respect the people's ettiquettes. Look how he handles his hands? His is protected by police yet he wants the pple's votes? He doesn't lend an ear. Can he feel us? No!

On the other hand, the Pas candidate "feels" the people. Look how happy they are to see him. He feels them and their pain.
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written by teo siew chin, January 12, 2009 09:07:23
Ahmadneil - you new to MT? smilies/cheesy.gif Surely u r aware these Warriors of Justice will even trample thru landmine-filled grounds just to deliver the message of change to the people! duhhhhh.
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written by Rashid, January 12, 2009 09:11:38
So this checkmate weapon is like Ustaz Ramli's bombshell in Permatang Pauh? Yahoo. Umno better stop losing more money in KT. The battle is over and you lost badly.

p.s
When will you give us the "secret" on Wang Farid Wang Hisham? Can't wait for that. Now I'm raising my Pas winning margin to 8,000 votes. Takbir!
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written by Angela Ooi, January 12, 2009 09:13:39
Although Gerakan had a full turn out for their 80 tables in a Chinese school, many came over to listen to our leaders after their dinner. Yep, go have your dinner with them (its being paid by you anyway), then VOTE PAS. The crowds at our ceramah is a good barometer of where the votes are going. BN must be up to their usual devious plans to thwart their pending defeat. CHEATING IS THE ONLY WAY BN CAN WIN!!

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written by cahaya, January 12, 2009 09:14:21
If a top Bee End leader has nothing else to say except please vote Bee End because it is the path of least resistance (note: a downhill path has least resistance), then Bee End will soon find The End in the South China Sea!
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written by milestone, January 12, 2009 09:16:47
Salam,

I like the statement from LGE and emphasize for UMNO and BN learn through this thought.

For Non-Muslim voters, pls feel free to vote for PAS and Pakatan Rakyat Reps!!! Throw our old 'racist'and 'islamophobia'decease forever!!!
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written by asguard, January 12, 2009 09:18:33
That is good move.it put any speculation to end on hudud issue. so Barang Naik has no more issues to play up and so tv3 tiga suku station, plus the bogey star paper. Now tv3 will known stesen television tiga suku! wow what a nice name tagline!
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written by Rhan, January 12, 2009 09:18:40
Did PAS says the same in front of the ecstatic and applauding local Muslim voters?
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written by DreamLady, January 12, 2009 09:18:42
Bravo Pakatan!!! You have made the crucial statement to wipe off the arrogant look on the goons' faces. The willingness to compromise and discuss amicably are vital for the newly formed coalition of a Great party!!

UNITY is the golden key to achieve the impossible!!!!

Long live Pakatan, long live to our Agong, His Majesty, and also the sultan of Trengganu, may God bless Him and his family!!!
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written by rocky, January 12, 2009 09:52:36
well done PR. tat is what we want. we want you agree to disagree but also agree on important matters and do it as a team. Do what is bets for the country, not your party or individual needs.
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written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2009 10:21:13
Proarte, eat your heart out....sore loser. Now dah takde issue nak bangkit cerita lama yang dah basi. Since we are walking down memory lane, want to also talk about the Chinese slaughtering the Malays over two weeks after the Japanese surrendered or is that cerita lama?

Why not try to look at the big picture and move forward rather than keep harping on how can the Malays and Chinese trust each other because of what happened a long time ago?

By the way, many of us Malays lost relatives in the Bintang Tiga rampage before the British returned to restore law and order. But we are prepared to allow the past to remain buried instead of keep bangkit cerita lama. Why not you try to do the same?
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written by Wudan, January 12, 2009 10:44:16
Dear Proarte, I think you have just answered the question yourself.

"Chinese are pragmatic people and are capable of seeing the big picture".

I would like to add the 'big picture' is very detailed and clear. BN just lost four chinese votes. My friend's parents, his brother and sister-in-law. I don't know if this four people will talk to their friends and relatives or not.
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written by Wudan, January 12, 2009 10:48:59
By the way Proarte who is standing for election in KT? Wan Farid or Ahmad Said? From my observation I thought Ahmad Said is the one standing for election. Bukan main kuat depa kempen house to house every day sanpai satu dua pagi. Kenapa?
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written by batsman, January 12, 2009 11:06:16
Hudud is to get rid of sinners and criminals. If PR come to power and gets rid of corruption and abuse of power and criminals who steal billions of ringgit from the rakyat, it is a reasonable compromise.
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written by Bandit, January 12, 2009 11:18:26
I for one still support hudud for muslims "ONLY". I would love to see UMNObastards walking around limbless in the near future. Its them who are stirring the issue for they can forecast that PR is already making headways. As long as Hudud is not impose on non muslims for example like separate counters for genders, swimmimg pools, theaters, stadiums etc which are minor issues. Criminal hudud laws for muslims......i stand first in line. Let the civil court deal with the rest on other issues.
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written by batsman, January 12, 2009 11:19:25
Getting rid of corruption, abuse of power and racism is a good first step in the fight against sin.
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written by carribeanking7, January 12, 2009 11:32:22
Dear Proarte, I see things differently.

a) yes there are 2 factions , the hardliners and the erdogans, in the end we know who won out.
b) yes they did oppose Low SM,s appointment but on grounds that she was part of the previous corrupt administration,
and merely seeking clarification -the MSM played it up as something else.
c) The whole hudud issue was brought up by Khairy and played up by the MSM, PAS merely stated their parties stand
without any hypocrisy- they answered in the same many if you had asked them would they pray 5 times a day or fast during ramadhan.
d) see (a) and (c)
e) Hadi is a hardliner, Nik Aziz condemed the statement in harakah and clearly explained that it was more immoral to let BN rule.

Hadi does not represent the entire PAS, but PAS nearly tripled their mandate in part due to non muslim support, there are those like Khalid Samad and others who depend on multireligious/ethnic constituencies who will keep hardliners in check, otherwise PAS will lose seats come next election. PKR also has that wonderboy from kulim who made a dissenting stand, ditto Karpal of DAP who talked about the imorality of crossovers. What we are seeing here is real democracy in action where a component party or individuals can freely air dissenting views, and each is an equal partner roughly holding 1/3rd the pakatan mandate,so there is no big brother syndrom like the one UMNO holds within BN. The point is there is check and balance within pakatan, for BN on the other hand UMNO pushes trough it own agenda by intimidation whether or not coalition partners agree.
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written by malaysianohope, January 12, 2009 11:38:57
Abang,
Make sure your scud missile target only the umno & mca goons & should be preemptive before they retaliate with C4. I tell you if umno lost this election they are doom & so is the Pee M in waiting. (He can wait forever la...)
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written by Mirage, January 12, 2009 11:46:01
Proarte, have you not been cheated enough to relate to the past? As a chinese, I am pragmatic not to be cheated again.
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written by SocratesI, January 12, 2009 12:05:15
Proarte, You have obviously never heard of evolution. The fact that PKR, PAS & DAP formed BA in 1999 and failed, and now formed Pakatan Rakyat in 2008 successfully, with room allowed for discussion on contentious issues, shows that these 3 Parties have learnt from past mistakes and past failure and used it as a stepping stone to success !

Barisan Najis on the other hand has gone from bad to worse, and if we don't send them packing, to worst, as the racist Anjing in UMNO are not checked at all, and the UMNOputras just keeps on plundering our beloved country at an even faster pace than before, just in case they lose the next GE, and of course SleepyHead is trying to gobble down what he can before being put out to pasture! The choice is Crystal clear !! Vote for PAS/ Pakatan Rakyat - Vote for Wahid Endut
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written by OVERLORD, January 12, 2009 12:14:25
Proarte...two words for you....MOVE ON!!! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Msian Idol3, January 12, 2009 12:19:20
Even a primitive Scud missile can down UMNO. This is great. Lets not let our guard down. Meanwhile I have to say I enjoy my KT nasi dagang & satay very much this weekend & all my chinese relatives there and new found friends are saying "we want PAS".
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written by Free Malaysia, January 12, 2009 12:46:47
Kurang ajar this BN. Time to kick these crooks out.
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written by rpremkumar2u, January 12, 2009 12:53:01
I think the Barisan media twisters and turners have left every stone unturned only to have it catapulted back in their faces. PKR have obviously reached a stage where they agree to come to a stage where they work out issues in a pragmatic way. Such move which is part and parcel for their collective struggle reminds many voters that it is not a sham but an earnest endeavor to resolve what is in the best interest of the rakyat of KT in particular and Malaysia as a whole. They are skilful and not manipulators like Barisan who always embark on pulling the wool over the rakyat's eyes. Proarte has to drink this philosophy. Today's political resolve as espoused by PKR generally goes down well with the voting public. Gone are the days when, bereft of real issues, the Barisan continues to impose oft flogged issues and smothers them with pecuniary rewards. Such issues dry up and wither. Ultimately since the Permatang pauh lesson has not been adhered, the by-election will therefore see a repeat of the performance which will see the BN candidate severely outvoted.
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written by Wudan, January 12, 2009 13:21:45
Dear Proarte, PAS is not the only domain of racial and religious politics. UMNO is the bigger culprit. I thought you have the seen the 'Big Picture'?
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written by panca, January 12, 2009 13:23:48
Checkmate!
Check it out mate....Pete and the rest in KT campaign are in top form, their horns are growin', getting horny and will gore any detractors and distractors!

OLE! Voters, Vote PAS/Pakatan Rakyat....That's A Good Sign To Usher A Raging Bull Year!

BN is packing and running!
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written by Rainbowseahorse, January 12, 2009 13:38:49
Proarte, Yes, winning the battle (in KT) but losing the war (PK & DAP within the coliation of PKR) when and if they do become the alternative government!

I think, in a nutshell, a LOST for PAS in KT will cut them down to size so that they’ll not try to exert so much pressure & influence over PK & DAP, especially over Islamic Laws. Whereas, a WIN for PAS might make them feel big headed and try to exert their influence on PK & DAP to their aspiration.

I think most Malysians know that but still wants PAS to win in KT, including me,...and with wide margin too!
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written by Jit Dharma, January 12, 2009 13:44:30
Great work Bro., keep the news coming b'coz the MSM is firing all guns with propaganda in desperation to try and turn the tide. Bloody Star is running like hell
according to chief of lap-dog's orders.Be safe out there!!
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written by aryn, January 12, 2009 13:49:20
Jangan cakap tak serupa bikin lepas ni. We'll hold you to your promises, PAS, DAP and PKR. Should you renegade, you all can kiss goodbye the PRU13. Sure, I wan PAS to win KT but with small majority so they don't become big headed as the party appears to be of late.

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written by Raizzen, January 12, 2009 13:51:48
To vote for PAS and teach AMNO/BN a lesson. Well thats normal. In fact appropriate. Long have they enjoy the the throne. But to vote AMNO just to punish DAP and PAS. I would say thats plain stupid.

Coz at the end of the day its the rakyats that'll be losing. Your choice.
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written by hellosunshine, January 12, 2009 13:58:04
Finally! What took them so long? Now that it is finally official, most of the doubters like me are at ease.
I sincerely pray that PR wins in KT, take control of the govt in the next election, come down hard and prosecute the corrupted ex-govt officials and rule cleanly, wisely and fairly (CAT).
Looking forward to such a beautiful day in the future.
smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by clarity, January 12, 2009 14:53:08
Running dogs ; Master master sorry lah! We tried to help to help in selangor, penang ang Ipoh but bochoh lah.
Umno : useless running dogs! no more crumbs for you.
Running dogs : please give one more chance. After all your traitor ezam and that pondan saiful also din not work. This time we mca will try to frighten the chinene in KT with hoodoo hudud.
Umno : go and try what you want lah. They already sign pact that all three must agree. We also kepala pusing!
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written by Eskay Lim, January 12, 2009 15:04:43
The Pakatan Rakyat has at last come out with this historic agreement on a "unanimous (3-0) decision" on all policy issues affecting the Malaysian rakyat.

So now, can the MCA and Umno esp. KJ stop quibbling over the Hudud laws?
It has become a non-issue.
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written by Raja Petra, January 12, 2009 15:07:28
Rainbowseahorse said: I think, in a nutshell, a LOST for PAS in KT will cut them down to size so that they’ll not try to exert so much pressure & influence over PK & DAP, especially over Islamic Laws. Whereas, a WIN for PAS might make them feel big headed and try to exert their influence on PK & DAP to their aspiration.

Rainbowseahorse, I think you are right. After all, Umno said they are going to win the by-election so I am sure they will be very humble when they do and will no longer ask the Chinese to go back to China or threaten them with another 'May 13'.

How come I am not as smart as you? Sigh....gota learn how to use my brain more.
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written by gogsard, January 12, 2009 15:51:53
Another Scud misile ?? EHehehehe .. you give me the chills. I cant wait !
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written by SamYap, January 12, 2009 16:06:59
While I do wish to believe that PKR/PAS/DAP had come to an understanding that any federal policy must be by general consensus, it would have more punch if the anouncement had been made by Hadi Awang rather than Guan Eng.
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 17:15:25
That's all some supporters (like me) were asking all along! The agreement is a CLEAR STAND and is acceptable (as long as the parties are sincere and will honour it). Isn't this a vindication of our stand? The hudud and Islamic Issue would have long died down if the issues were treated with rationality and urgency by our leaders and supporters. It is the blind support and deafness to your own members' concerns that kept the issue alive, not just the spin in the press.

With the issue settled, let's focus on winning KT!
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written by malaysianohope, January 12, 2009 17:23:07
Abang,
I think PAS's intention to pursue the oil royalty underpaid to the state is an Ace. Just watch how umno is going to get out of this. smilies/cool.gif
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written by lobster, January 12, 2009 17:31:18
whatever, with or without this agreement I want PAS to win. Please, PAS is part of pakatan rakyat. Any of you wishing PAS to lose in this by-election just 'to keep them in control' are pathetic. People like you are the reasons for the problem we are facing in kolej New Era and the new Chung Hwa school.
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 17:38:49
lobster, we are a PR supporter like you, but not all of us are blind supporter like you!
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written by Bloodhound, January 12, 2009 19:34:00
Hey people,

Let's not lose sight of the big picture and argue amongst ourselves.

The main objective is to makke sure that PR wins this by-election whether the candidate is from PAS, DAP or PKR - it does not matter one aiota at all! If PR wins this by-election, the momentum for change will again surge like another tsunami which will sweep the current corrupt and incompetent regime into oblivion in the next General Election.

With the current economic disaster in our midst, can we afford to have a prime minister who still think that our nation will be spared the impact of such a tidalwave of miseries that had befallen our trading partners and our neighbours?

Do we still want a government which perceives the ISA instrument as a cure-all for differences of opinions, ideas or dissents - a government which have no other solutions on hand except the frequent imposition of the full fury of the unconstitutional laws upon its citizens? What of the nation's degeneration into a racialistic generation and what about corruptions and the issues of security of Malaysians in their own home without being fearful of being robbed or injured?

Yes, let us move one step at a time in our quest for a brighter future for our future generations. Remove the disease first. Next, if any of the partners within the party loses their sense of direction to the detriment of the rakyat, then....and only then, shall we do the necessary surgery to enable PR to serve the people with full authority.

If we were to ever lose sight of our main objective and PR loses the KT by-election, then, it's the people who will suffer for another generation or two because if PR loses, the whole momentum for change will be dealt a severe blow and UMNO will then rule with an iron fist....that is why Najib had announced that KT is a by-election that UMNO must win to survive!

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written by ibabonma, January 12, 2009 20:01:44
Husam Musa is not the policy maker of Pas.
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written by MalaysianFirst, January 12, 2009 20:05:41
Okay, my turn to speak.

I see the word "big picture" used by many of you. To me the "big picture" is simply this: The KT by-election is not a battl between BN and PAS. It is actually a battle between BN and Pakatan Rakyat as PAS is an official partner of Pakatan Rakyat. THIS is the "big picture".

So, without wasting words or time, everyone who hates BN for what they have done to the country, (i.e. value of our ringgit getting smaller, shrinking economy, weakened competitiveness, low quality education, perceived corruption, perceived croynism, perceived racist mentality, etc etc.), should just focused on the "big picture" and that is to make sure BN loses not only this by-election, but also the big one in three years time.

Now is not the time to squabble about who will call the shot. Right now, PAS, DAP, PKR are, in my eyes, all brothers.

Warmest regards.
Agreed?
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written by hellosunshine, January 12, 2009 21:09:25
Milo,Don't waste your time with lobsters dibawah tempurung types.
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written by Milo, January 12, 2009 22:16:32
hellosunshine, love to eat lobsters, including blind ones..haha...kidding only, they are quite harmless once cooked..cheers! smilies/grin.gif

--------------------------

As for looking at the BIG PICTURE, here is my little contribution:

1st Small picture = PAS win KT!
2nd Medium picture = PR win enough Federal seats to form new government!
3rd Big picture = PR government gives us a corruption free country with no racial barrier (Bumi/non-bumi differentiation), fair sharing of economic pie(no NEP), good economic growth (well managed government), a good education system, complete freedom of religious beliefs (no Islamic State) and peaceful existence (crime rate down).

That is my hierachy of picture frames for the country. Noticed the Islamic State issue fits into the Big Picture?
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written by archie, January 12, 2009 23:23:13
Proarte says "Racial and religious politics is a curse which has afflicted politics in Malaysia for too long".

That's right, and that's why racist UMNO must not win KT be-election.
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written by Fuminari, January 12, 2009 23:34:26
the big picture is 'enemy of our enemy is our friend'!!simple as that.
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written by Fart Fart Wah, January 13, 2009 01:32:58
the final straw for UMNO now is to call the bomohs.........sacrifice their wives to them..to hope for a storm in KT..so that the police and army can vote instead...

anything is purchasable by UMNO even wives....anyone starting with 100,000????

... a rombongan has gone to voodooland....too..

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written by Johnson, January 13, 2009 07:58:58
to all voters

I think all issues around politics and hudud laws, islamic state and even ketuanan melayu should not be seen as overwhelming as it is today.

All these issues should be resolved by democratic way. I think we have more pressing subjects around us which should be allocated first, and they are:

1, Corruption- the corruption has dragged the country back the third world country , together with Zimbabwe.
2, Law and enforcement- seriously is there any malaysian who would feel safe?? Did the police protect us enough???
3, Economy- can we survive? will our country develop along with the world? Is our live hood being improved??
4, Freedom and human right- these should be covered by 1&2.

I believe when we have addressed issues above, we will have a better platform to solve the .

My point is, now we should choose the gov which has the better offer solutions over the subjects above and BeeN from my point of view just got the opposite to offer. Thank you.


kind regards
Johnson
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written by SamSan, January 13, 2009 08:12:22
Why doesn't BN / UMNO bring out Saiful, their most powerful strategic weapon. As Che Det had said, BN / UMNO had made a wrong choice of candidate by not nominating Saiful as their candidate for KT. I suppose it will now be difficult for Saiful to explain how the indisuputably holy, pious and meek Anwar had infiltrated his dobor through jampi as confirmed by police investigation. If Najib had entertained and given this Uni dropout an audience at both his home and office and in fact discussed providing scholarship for this outstanding drop out, then the only ultimae strategy as indicated by Che Det would be to nominate Saiful as BN KT candidate. So what happened to the top level UMNO / BN sodomy strategy that was used in Permatang Pauh.
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written by lokenpal, January 13, 2009 08:52:05
I think in the long run, PKR cannot deny PAS moral right for HUDUD, even if it’s unconstitutional. The question is what is PAS’s record in Islamic governance relative to other Islamic countries/States? Has PAS discriminated other religion? Hell No. Well maybe, Ayah Pin issue? Perhaps banning wayang kulit, etc.
But all things considered PAS is ethical and non-corrupt.

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written by Rhan, January 13, 2009 09:57:24
The big picture is the next election. What we want to see is strong collaboration among the PR member, who may not share the same ideology but willing to work towards a common objective. If what we hear and see is nothing but big talk of Katak during PP and Hudud in KT, I doubt all this by-election would really boost PR in the long run.

The Malay MUST reject PAS if what PAS know is only talk Hudud and Islamic State.
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written by Mirage, January 13, 2009 10:15:23
Its always my believe to support whatever works appeasing human rights rather than race rights. To begin with, if you drill down to a society that is matured, a big part of it comes from the education system. I wont drill in further on what and why but I think deep down we know. Hence for our society "not a developed" country you can expect ppl to just generally want something for themselves when they are not treated equally. I am old enough to say that over the many years, the BN gov will do a lot of talking and pleasing when its required but not when its needed.

You have 2 choices basically
1. To remain adamant (esp non Malays) that the BN will change their attitude
2. Op for a change now.

If you choose 1, don't forget as recent as the Penang case where the UMNO leaders choice of words were not taken seriously by BN abt the Chinese as pendatang. This means, UMNO and BN condone this to a certain extent and if this is the case you know what to expect if you see a future in BN.

On the other hand we have Pakatan Rakyat, with its component parties which may not seem at times to be united. While at much of the time, the Chinese complaint that MCA is not doing enough or that they a puppet to UMNO, we have DAP who is conciously voicing their opinion even if it meant a certain criticality during this by election. So do you want a "yes man" again or a representative who will voice their opinion when its needed.
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written by crayon, January 13, 2009 10:16:55
i tend to agree with what Proarte wrote smilies/sad.gif

PAS has some RECENT track records that shows their extremist side of things. that is something worth considering, no matter how much we hated BN. To punish UMNO is one thing, but to put aside our basic principles is another altogether. I'm not about to burn a village to kill 1 criminal, so to say.

Some off-topic things which i dont understand for Malaysia:
1. why is a Muslim not allowed to change his religion (easily) in M'sia?
2. why use so much rules/laws to control the Muslims in this country?
3. you call this freedom of religion, or dictatorship or religion???
(sorry if i offended anyone)
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written by Milo, January 13, 2009 10:25:54
With the JOINT AGREEMENT betwwen the component parties of Pakatan, there is now a basic yardstick to measure whether a component party is worth supporting. There is no more need to talk about hudud or what dud, just this. Any party who breach the agreement under ANY GUISE (including under religious ones) has NO PRINCIPLES, and hence must be TOTALLY REJECTED by the people! That is why this AGREEMENT is SO IMPORTANT!

With this, let's MOVE ON...
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written by Mirage, January 13, 2009 10:36:42
Dear Crayon,

While you believe those extremist action you have mention abt PAS ideology, I see no difference in BN. In fact, I have witness and seen countless of times when BN say something but act otherwise. So ? is it better to be upfront and face an opposition from the public or even internal component parties openly or do it behind your back and then we continue to condemn the BN but yet vote for them???? Secondly, I would also hope you check with the Chinese ppl of Kelantan if that was entirely true. My feedback from Chinese Business partners there is more positive on PAS than otherwise for the same point that I have mentioned.

By the way your second part has no barier to this argument and point. I believe the No Hold Bared has an article on the Malay and religion for argument sake and your points above will do well there.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, January 13, 2009 11:30:25
Raja Petra,

No, I most certainly don’t think a win for UMNO in KT will, as you put it, “humble” them and “will no longer ask the Chinese to go back to China or threaten them with another 'May 13'”.

On the contrary, a win for UMNO will not be good nor desirable as they would obviously interpret that as continued, revival, or acceptance support by the people.
UMNO might further interpret that win as being on the right track in winning back Malay support with their recent racist & Malay supremacy remarks. As such, regardless of non Malay’s unacceptable & reservations of Islamic laws advocated by PAS, they cannot allow UMNO to win in KT.

As for your last remark, I know exactly what you mean! Who am I to question the great RPK; right?

All the best and may Allah/God be with you all!
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written by CatV5, January 13, 2009 13:33:06
Crayon wrote
Some off-topic things which i dont understand for Malaysia:
1. why is a Muslim not allowed to change his religion (easily) in M'sia?
2. why use so much rules/laws to control the Muslims in this country?
3. you call this freedom of religion, or dictatorship or religion???
(sorry if i offended anyone)


I think i know why
1. Because the ulemas have agreed that apostasy is a crime and deserve to be punished... and the most extreme one is death... and it is intolerable for Malay Muslim in Malaysia and a very very sensitive thing as it signifies the Muslim is weak if many ppl want out.
2. Because they believe it is their responsibility to take of other muslims welfare whether they like it or not because they believe they will be rewarded Pahala. And to ignore is an act of selfishness. And they believe the old Syaria law as depicted in the Hadis and Quran is the perfect law to uphold. So you kinda get a mix of that in Malaysia with western system...
3. For Muslims, freedom of religion is anybody can embrace Islam. without any force... that's freedom in their eyes.. those who want out? refer no.1.
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written by Milo, January 13, 2009 13:33:30
Hi mirage,

As I said, the PAS's Islamic tingy is settled with the joint agreement between the PR parties. So what I am about to mention is just for some friendly exchanges.

We all reject UMNO because of what they have come to represent, not just because they are UMNO. In fact, as of now, many of us are so angry and fed-up with what they did that we will still vote against them even if they genuinely turn good tomorrow. But anger can be blinding, and it can led us to accepting ideology that are equally unacceptable. Ask you self objectively, are we voting PAS because they are perfect? Or, because they are less corrupt than UMNO? Obviously, it is the second. It would be irrational to consider PAS as flawless just because UMNO has serious flaws.

Now on my objection to PAS ideology of hudud and the Islamic State implementation. Let's start with hudud. Just as the camel is considered an ancient form of transportation, the hudud (and many other Islamic laws) is an ancient law devise at a time when wars and savagery are a common place. For that reason, the hudud's punishments have parts that are savage. But civilization has moved on. By moving on, common sense requires that it automatically means motifications are needed for the laws to stay relevant to current society. There are in fact many Islamic scholars who advocate this sort of thinking. But the problem is many muslim fundamentalists think that using your brain and common sense in such instances mean questioning God's law. This absurdity is equavlent to believing if God says he recommends the camel, it means you cannot use other vehicles! Absurdity leads to more absurdity. I heard there is an arguement that no one has been punished under Hudud yet in Kelatan. That's the point! Why? Because even if the hudud law is in place, common sense will hold people back or make them hesitate to implement them. Ask them to cut off a hand or stone an adultress to death as punishment just ONCE and see what will happen. I predict doves of both malays and non-malays will swing to UMNO for no other reasons other than fear! Despite such absurdities, what we are objecting is not hudud itself, but rather the adoption of hudud (especially it goes with the Islamic State concept) as federal laws in our secular society.

Now on voting. Yes, we are on Pas side because Pas is part of Pakatan Rakyat. So we should vote them in order to strengthen Pakatan. But does that mean we cannot object to so important an item that affects us, which is their declared aim? You have to understand politicians to appreciate how they have a tendency to spin facts and information to their advantage, and this is what we have to preempt ESPECIALLY if these politicians are those we support. Spare the rod, spoil the child! And don't be so naive as to think only the BN mediums can do such things.

That is why people like me object so strongly because we see the danger. We support Pas, but we should make clear to them that our support is a "QUALIFIED" support and not a blank check. If we silently support, the Pas politicians will almost definitely make the claim that the people do not fear hudud or Islamic State, which is why they were voting in. That time, it would be far too late to object! It would be like the BN who claims that because the people voted them in, they interprete that to mean the people support ALL their policies!

Ask: Why was there a joint agreement that all the component parties MUST agree befor any policy (including hudud) before it can be implemented? Why now, and not previously? It is because we MAKE ENOUGH NOISE today! Otherwise, it will be business as usual, until it is too late!

I hope I made my point clear.
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written by Milo, January 13, 2009 13:48:01
Hi Crayon,

Here are some answers to your questions:

1. why is a Muslim not allowed to change his religion (easily) in M'sia?

A muslim who changes his religion is call an apostate. In Islamic law (sharia), the consensus view is that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.

2. why use so much rules/laws to control the Muslims in this country?

The syariah is God's law, hence muslims are bound by them.

3. you call this freedom of religion, or dictatorship or religion???

It is just that the Islamic tradition does not provide such flexibility. It is a "Hotel Califonia" religion, i.e. "you can check in any time you like but you can never leave ..." as the song goes.

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written by Rainbowseahorse, January 13, 2009 13:54:13
Milo, I agree with your rational. Support them now but we make known to them why we supported them in the first place.

Or as you aptly put it, "It is because we MAKE ENOUGH NOISE today! Otherwise, it will be business as usual, until it is too late!".

Cheers!
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written by Milo, January 13, 2009 14:21:56
Rainbowseahorse,

Your points are similar to mine with perhaps slightly different conclusion (same goes for Proarte)...and seriously, RPK should not get so worked up over them. maybe the campaigning is getting to his nerve. Anyway, our respect for him should remain, even though our views have been vindicated by the precipitation of the joint agreement, which is what we supporters wanted. Continue to speak up! Cheers! smilies/grin.gif
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written by Mirage, January 13, 2009 14:30:38
Milo,

Your points are valid points as far as the concern on Hudud law.I have never been a supporter of DAP nor PR nor PAS to begin with. However the last 3 years of the Badawi administration has shown the biggest flaw of BN in every aspect of corruption to cronysm, nepotism and double standards of even the law. This is not new of BN to be doing this except that now it is done so openly with even damaging racial statements made without consequences and disregard for the rights of other races baffles me. The UMNO has even got a followers and supporters of those UMNO head who made that statement. This was capitalise because of a weak current administration, and also immaturity of understanding the freedom of speech. We cannot change the latter immediately but we can change the arrogance of BN.
Now Hudud or no Hudud, it was agreed the PR decision to be one that is base on consultative decisions agreed by all. This leaves out why they are doing now or why was it not done earlier but one thing is for sure, DAP has been consistent in voicing out those grose from the beginning but not MCA. I will need more convincing from BN and not forgetting what I have mentioned is a culture in the party and their members and leader are majority from the grassroot which will not be easy to change.


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written by Milo, January 13, 2009 15:01:35
Mirage,

In case you missed my point, I AM supporting PAS, just like you, "hudud or no hudud". The only difference is, I believe we should "qualify" our support to ensure our reservations are made clear to them, thus disallowing them to claim later on that by voting PAS we also support hudud or the Islamic State. The appearance of the "Joint Agreement" shows how important it is that we have to voice our objection (if it is valid based on rationalism) to prevent flawed policies from materializing into reality. I do not know if the leaders of Pakatan Rakyat realise it, the Joint Agreement is a powerful instrument of unity for the party if used for all election purpose, now and in the future. It removes a lot of critical doubts the people have with regards to PAS and the Pakatan pack. The leadership of Pakatan should all thank those who speaking up strongly and provide sufficient clear reasons for their objection. Their responsive gesture of coming out with a clear stand through a Joint Agreement also put them on good standing with the people, and in the process differentiate them from BN who are considered stubornly unresponsive.

Cheers!

smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by Mirage, January 13, 2009 15:20:22
Milo,

I did not miss your point. I was just stating mine. I am of the opinion that most of us support the subject matter and not blindly supporting a party for some of their believe and for this case I think most of us know where we want to be. Thanks
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written by Dominic, January 13, 2009 17:38:27
Which ever party won, be it from Pas,Dap,or Pkr,it is a concensious efforts of all 3 party. Pas may appear a little too Islamic at time,but again given the track record of UMNO led govt of over 50yrs,whats our choice ? Am sure what ever the 3 dont agree is still not that destructive nor damaging than what the latter had and is still doing ! Surely the PR component leaders know whats the best solution to cateer to all the different ethic groups even though it may not be perfect . For that,there shouldnt be any qualm so long as it is done in a transparent,honest and fair manner. Malaysians in general are reasonable people saved for UMNO idiots !Just throw UMNO out come what may on 17Jan09.
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written by hellosunshine, January 14, 2009 08:59:07
Dear MT, you lambasted the MSM for censorship and reporting biased news but you are just as bad when you censored my comments on batsman in 'Whom do we trust, PAS or UMNO'. I am really disappointed with your double headed practice and your not so hidden agenda on PAS support now.
I used to trust RPK blindly until I realized he had an agenda and it's blooming right before our eyes. Sad.
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written by hellosunshine, January 14, 2009 09:16:54
BTW, I've always been a DAP opposition supporter since young and I am all for PR wresting power from BN and no, I am not a racist (claimed by RPK) as I believe and trust in DAP's Karpal Singh more than LKS.
I wonder how long will it be before I am struck off the members' list for not blindly agreeing to all of MT/RPK's views on democracy.
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written by hellosunshine, January 14, 2009 11:12:48
Tokenpal, What the **** did I say? That's the problem as it's been censored and deleted. Basically, I told batsman off for gloating and harping on his God's laws and his impossible dream of a perfect society. He has his views and I as a non Muslim, have mine. Why censored mine as a non Muslim's view?
Did PAS hears anti-hudud views with understanding and respect? Ha ha ha!!! You are so blind and naive. It's a long and rough road towards democracy, that I agree but separation of religion from politics (?), that I doubt very much as it had taken UMNO goons 51 years to create the dire situation we are now in.
Be wary and trust no one, especially politicians of all denominations until they prove themselves over time.
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written by Milo, January 14, 2009 23:05:48
lokenpal,

The issue is not just whether hudud is good or bad. There will be plenty of opposing views, and will be the same if it has been biblical or hindu laws that were been discussed.

The point expressed by many of us here is, in a secular state (some may dispute this) like Malaysia, there is no reason to label "universal good principles or laws" under a religious tag, such as Hudud. What is good is good! Truth is truth! Is there such a thing as Islamic Law of Gravity? Or Islamic Earth? As quite a few pointed out, there is no Buddhist Constitution in Thailand nor Christian Law in America.

I certainly see people like hellosunshine quite rational in discussing issues, even where he held different views from some in certain areas. As for the censorship, I do feel it is the right of the editor to censor comments. We have to trust he probably have reasons we are not in a position to know.
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written by SamSan, January 15, 2009 07:57:15
When is UMNO / BN going to bring on their super heavy weight strategist Saiful into their campaign. Pakatan should be wondering what surprises will Saiful bring to bear on their election gains. When will the swearing in ceremonies by Saiful, Najib,Che Det in the various KT mosques begin. These are definate strategies that will propel BN to greater heights.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, January 15, 2009 10:55:25
Super Heavyweight Saiful?
UMNO will bring him out at the eleventh hour where he will bare all, for all to see he has indeed been sodomized....regularly!
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written by KotaDamansara73, January 15, 2009 13:17:55
HUDUD LAW IS BAD. HUDUD LAW IS PRIMITIVE. HUDUD LAW IS INTOLERANT.

WE CANNOT ALLOW ANY KIND OF RELIGION, BE IT CHRISTIAN, BUDDHIST OR ISLAM TO BE THE BASIC LAW TO RUN THIS COUNTRY. RELIGION IS BASE ON FAITH AND NOT ON LOGIC AND SCIENCE. AND THEREFORE MANY INNOCENT VICTIM WILL BE WRONGLY PROSECUTED.
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written by tianng, January 16, 2009 09:12:31
My call to KT voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijkKuSHOHDo

http://www.merdekablog.com


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written by lokenpal, January 23, 2009 08:39:57
Hello Kota Damansara born in 73'. this is what you meant.

COMMON LAW IS BAD. COMMON LAW IS PRIMITIVE. COMMON LAW IS INTOLERANT.

WE CANNOT ALLOW ANY KIND OF RELIGION, BE IT CHRISTIAN, BUDDHIST OR ISLAM TO BE THE BASIC LAW TO RUN THIS COUNTRY. RELIGION IS BASE ON FAITH AND NOT ON LOGIC AND SCIENCE. AND THEREFORE MANY INNOCENT VICTIM WILL BE WRONGLY PROSECUTED.

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