==> Pls visit new site at http://malaysia-today.net/ <==

The Malaysian government must realise that all engineering and medical updates are published in English. Our local engineers and doctors graduating in the Malay medium will defintely lose out the the English educated ones, simply because they, the Malay medium graduates, will find it difficult to grasp or understand the publications. Therefore, their marketability will definitely be limited even in Malaysia. That is why most of the Malay medium graduates will continue to be engineers and doctors and not specialists in their fields.

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If the Malays invent a new technology that is widely use in the world, then maybe then, people will flock to Malaysia and learn Malay.

If the Malays culture, movie and entertainment industry is as strong as hollywood, then I am very sure, people in Asia will learn Malay.

People learn English because the Hollywood culture is so strong that it influences everybody in the world. And on top of that, all Science, R&D, medical journals are written in English. AMericans and the Western country has always contributed to new discoveries and invention in the world.

Will the Malays able to match that?

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Meanwhile, two universities (one in Penang, one in Singapore) are trying to increase the demand for Malay language.

In line with the efforts to expand the use of the Malay language at the international level, Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) and SIM University (UniSIM) Singapore signed a Memorandum of Understanding in Penang yesterday. USM will work together with UniSIM to develop the syllabus and train experts in the development of the ‘Bachelor of Arts in Malay Languages and Literature’ programme, to be offered by UniSIM in January 2009. - - USM website
http://www.usm.my/ver4en/berit...sp?id=6241

"UniSIM, USM Share Skills In Teaching Bahasa Malaysia", Bernama report, 16 Dec. 2008
http://www.bernama.com/bernama...?id=378758

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If a society is progressive, no matter what language they use they are the leaders.

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Fearless said :
Your own ignorance makes you say so, there are tons of enginnering and medical journals published in Japanese, Chinese, Russian and German languages.

But the point is how many pounds of engineering and medical journals are published in the Malay language?

Let us be objective and honest. If you have the financial resources, will you send your children to study in Japan, China, Russia or Germany?

Most if not all parents will send their children to UK, Australia or USA rather than Indonesia or keep them in Malaysian unis, if they can afford.

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Dear Fearless,

I totally agree with you BUT the issue here is, is there any publication/s in Malay that can set Malaysia as a global champion in R&D?

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Wow! What a lengthy discourse!
But, yes I agree with the thrust of the writer: namely the teaching of science and maths in English ought be continued.

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I agree with Commonfolk and Fearless.

King Solomon, did you realise that it is cheaper to send your children to France and Germany than to UK and USA? What makes UK, Australia and USA popular is not because they are all their unis are top in the world but rather the accessability of not needing to pick up another language to study there as English is taught in Malaysian schools as a compulsory subject. There is no one supreme language as many of English speaking Western scholars would give an arm and a leg to actually take time out to study in a non-English speaking country. This is because they understand that education is not all about academic texts and English.

I have uncles who learned German to study in Germany because (back then at least) the universities there do not distinguish between foreign and local students thus they all pay the same low subsidised fees. UK, USA and Australia charges much more for foreigners compared to local students. I believe France still charges everyone equally. Maybe it's about time you encourage Malaysians to learn French and take advantage of this.

Similarly it is foolish to place great economic importance to any language. Tell the Malaysian Chinese to drop dialects because it's economically pointless and see what you get. Language is linked with society, culture and much more. You have to see it as a whole and use it as a whole within society.

BM and Bahasa Indonesia are actually a very witty language in the right hands. It is a joy to read some sastera and I enrich myself by knowing BM. I do read Indonesian books as well with the aid of a dictionary. The value of these languages to me is that I learn more of the respective cultures and I am able to pick up positive traits from both cultures. Could you put an economic value to this?

I was well amused when Margaret Weiss the author of the Dragonlance series used Indonesian words in her books after she spent some time in Indonesia. She loves the languaged and I believe the language enriched her.

Bottomline, get out of this notion of placing economic values on a language. Think of the wider persepctive.

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For 37 years tyhe kids in schools suffered because of the introduction of BM as the vernacular language - with Math and Science being taught in that language.

Who suffered most? The Malays. Yes, for a couple of yeaars the Malays unknowingly enjoyed this 'privilege' but when the others caught up and spoke and read better than a lot of Malays, then the 'think tank' began doing some research.

This is the proiblem with this country in all aspects - they do not think of the consequences in 20 years or 50 years from now.

The English language is not a foreign one but it is the second language here. I do not see why the Malays cannot excell in it - unless they are quite happy thinking that ( Malay students have told me this ) places are assured in the gov't sector. How naive can one get.

Look at my Malay peers - they are in high p[laces because every subject ( except for BM ) was taught in English. The only way a Malay can expect to compete with the rest. The rest of the Malays are quite happy working as cashiers and earning RM600 a month. These are the Malays from kampongs - not all but a vast majority of them. I know this for a fact ... a Malay girl that I know was actually offered a scholarship ( her results were not great either - failed in English ) to further her studies at MRSM but was not interested and went to a supermarket in a mall in KL to work as a trainee cashier. The glitter and glamour of the neon lights in a big city - a huge attraction for these Malays.

What one would do to get a scholarship to further one's studies and yet others let these obviuous opportunities slip by.

In the kampungs - at least the kampongs I have been to, there are some Malays who know the importance of the English language and spend their hard earned money sending them for English tuition. These are the wise Malay parents.

The ones who walk through the corridors of power have their own tutors and send their kids abroad. How many Malays can do the same?

With all avenues open to them, it's a pity that these Malays do not take advantage of them.

Keep Bahasa as the National language but emphasize on the importance of the English Language.

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It is funny that everybody is debating about Malay language been used in teaching science and mathematics when we all know that Malays in general don't have any problem with government continuing using English to teach Science and Mathematics.

For you guys information, it is the Dong Jiao Zhong and many Chinese here who is ups in arm and make a big issue trying to protect teaching those 2 subjects in Chinese language. Up to a point of even calling Prof Emeritus Khoo Kay Kim a traitor etc...

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Fearless and AsamLaksa,

I do not want to question your intelligence but what is being deliberated here is that, what is the benefit in teaching science and mathematics in Malay. Regardless of the language it can be clearly seen that other language prevail in comparison to Bahasa Malay. The dream of having Bahasa Malay as the internationally accepted language of information dessimination will not be accepted and not in this millenium.

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Tuan-tuan dan Puan-puan sekalian, kita semua manusia Malaysia atau tidak, kita mesti berfikir atau berdepan dengan Globalization, we must think what is the need to make our kids to be the best in the world, to face the globalize world,
we whether Malays, Indian, Chinese or Dayak, or Iban, or Thai doesnot matter, we must not think of racial line, we must think of what kind of education is needed for today's globalize world ? what will it take to have our kid competitive in the world stage, so that they can add value or of value in world standing/stage.
what each of the race think is not important, what is important is we must face the global competition, that is getting tougher, and we must benchmark what is a good education system in this world ?
Singapore and HK seem to do well, and even today in USA or advance country, they all encourage their student to command more than one language, and it is definitely good for the student and the kids, and more important we malaysia must acknowledge and recognize that our diversity is a strength, many of the US, CHina, HK, Japan, European etc, envy we have a very unique country, where we speak well in english and also our national Bahasa, and our mother tongue, which is unique, and is a envy of many.
I strongly support that :
1) we can learn the mother tongue in our primary school,
2) we can learn the math and science in english in primary school,
3) we can learn Bahasa as a common language,
we must all make sure our country have primary and secondary student able to command the English , written and spoken,


in the secondary school,
1) we can learn our mother tongue
2) math and science in english
even the economy, and accounting we should consider use English,
3) Bahasa for geography, history,
we must figure out how to make our student to be able to speak and write well the english language, so that we are better than the normal, our diversity as strength.

we must not think along racial line.
we must think global, act and behave global,
with global outlook, bahave and act, and doing global educationn, system that is competitive. dont think along racial line.
what kind of education so that we are competitive ?

how to have merit system in our education ? today i believe the merit system is bullshit, putting the head in the sand and said, i dont see nothing ?

wake up, make malaysia education competitive.
god know and you know, what kind of bluff merit system today.

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Come to think of it, my peers had the best. Those born in 1960 were the first group that started to make the switch. We had Geography and history in Malay and we had science and maths in English. Heck, I even did Shakespeare happily.

We effectively mastered both languages and were all happy with both English and Malay.

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Strange that no one bother to ask those who had the bestof both worlds, namely those born in 1960 to about 1963 who did Science, Maths, accountancy in English and History and Geography in Malay.

We ende up with a balanced view, fully conversant in both languages and then go on and develop it further as we pursue our careers. We had no problems holding our court in Malaysia, with Chinese, with Malays or with Westerners.

That is a successful model and what we are doing now is great.Just leave it, the problem actually lies with the teachers. we had great teachers and they speak impeccable English and the cared.

Improve the teaching profession and leave the language issue alone.

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KotaDamansara73,

If the Malays invent a new technology that is widely use in the world, then maybe then, people will flock to Malaysia and learn Malay.

If the Malays culture, movie and entertainment industry is as strong as hollywood, then I am very sure, people in Asia will learn Malay.

People learn English because the Hollywood culture is so strong that it influences everybody in the world. And on top of that, all Science, R&D, medical journals are written in English. AMericans and the Western country has always contributed to new discoveries and invention in the world.

Will the Malays able to match that?
_______________________________________________________ ________________________

Kita bercakap tentang Bahasa Malaysia saudara,

Atau anda mahu katakan bahasa Malaysia menjadi tanggungjawab orang Melayu sahajakah untuk kembangkannya?..

kalau begitu, baik jangan cakap tentang kesatuan, satu bangsa satu negara saudara..

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kepada saudara saudari bukan melayu,

kalau hanya bahasa Malaysia ini, hanya orang Melayu sahaja yang bertanggungjawab untuk olah, perbaharui dan kembangkannya..apa gunanya kita bercakap tentang kesamaan, berkongsi satu negara?..

Saya tahu banyak persatuan dan sasterawan bukan melayu yang khusus mengembangkan bahasa Malaysia diperli, diperlekehkan oleh segelintir kaumnya sendiri..kerana mereka ini dianggap menyokong bangsa/kaum lain..disini siapa yang lebih bersikap patriotik kepada tanahair ini?..

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Oilman, if you are looking only at direct academic benefits then you are right.

However it goes beyond that. If you want graduates who come back to Malaysia and contribute to the pool of knowledge what they will need is BM to get their message across to BM speakers. Not everyone will end up in science stream. The reason BM is not the current language of choice for you is not because the language itself inherently sucks but rather the lack of policies to make it the language of choice for these subjects.

Similarly teaching science and maths in English in Malaysia won't bring you much benefit if the same people who cocked up English and BM teaching policies do your science and maths syllabus. It sure is easy to blame the language and go for English but what you support will not help the overall education standard.

There is really no such thing as a particular language giving you an outright advantage in science and maths. As long as you teach the students well, be adaptable and think study outside the classroom they will do fine. I know one French student who found it so difficult to carry out an uninterrupted conversation in English doing well in law studies in England. What they all had in common is a good dictionary with them. One of my closest friend from Hong Kong couldn't carry out any English conversation when he first took up engineering in England and he graduated with 1st class honours and just completed his phd.

I was considered one of the top students in high school. I recall the time I took part in science exhibitions and won. Today I look back in horror because even though I won many prizes, my wins are pointless because the competitions failed to instil the scientific method in me or all my team mates. This is because it was never explained well be it in BM or English. Few years later I knew a group of medical students who were going to present in an international event and to my horror have not done any relevant research on the subject of their presentation. Their English were great but have no grasp of the scientific method except to swallow whatever is written in textbooks and selective articles. I also suffered in research not because I can't understand the academic texts but rather I found difficulty in critically appraising them. Took me years to get the hang of it even though I won science prizes in high school. The science fundamentals are badly taught, so what more could I expect?

So, sure, argue which language you think it best but don't forget that there's more important underlying issue.

Now, the damage has been done. The system was not ready for teaching science and maths in English. The teachers are not competently trained to tackle it as they were taught in BM. The changes should be gradual and be assessed along the way. Instead you have a former PM's not well thought out bid to stem the decline in science and maths when the solution lies not in the choice of language but in the education policies.

Who loses? The students if this gerrymandering of the education policies goes on. Even if all local unis start to teach all subjects in English you still may not want to send your children there if the standard of education there is poor.

Oilman, you believe what you believe because you are not seeing deeper into the real issue, which is the yearly decline in education standards. It's really a non-issue this language thingie. It's smokescreen started by a former PM who now turns around supporting his son's suggestion. Who's the fool then?

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It is wrong to call Prof Khoo a traitor. We usually don’t label dog as traitor.

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Who loses? The students if this gerrymandering of the education policies goes on.

AsamLaksa,

The Malay lack confidence towards their language. The Chinese can’t afford to have similar mess. We are consistent and assertive towards our stand and will never allow this politician to treat our education like football. Look at the statistic of the Chinese School who selects Mandarin as choice for the UPSR mathematics and science subject, we will never back down. MCA, Gerakan, DAP and DJZ have to follow the wish of the Chinese community, they do not have a choice. Until and unless the Malay finds ways to improve the so called national education system, otherwise we prefer to have our own system.

This is the only way out under the existing political reality.

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AsamLaksa wrote:
...The reason BM is not the current language of choice for you is not because the language itself inherently sucks but rather the lack of policies to make it the language of choice for these subjects....Similarly teaching science and maths in English in Malaysia won't bring you much benefit if the same people who cocked up English and BM teaching policies do your science and maths syllabus. It sure is easy to blame the language and go for English but what you support will not help the overall education standard...]]

This is the best posting on any topic I've ever seen in M-T all these years. Factual, penetrating analysis, written in a precise and concise manner. Who says we don't have first-rate minds?

LChuah

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Rhan,

The Malay lack confidence towards their language.

Is not the malay. We can have a poll for this issue and we will see the result according to which race who lack of confidence over national language.

thanks to ur group (who support our kids being in different school systems)..there are still Malaysian who speak BM like 'katak'..

So, itz all about 'ketuanan melayu' wrong when we also have some chinese and indian community who want their kids have different systems..

and what about our beloved nation??..nah!!! ptui!!..

N.O.T.H.I.N.G..

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Rhan, from the way things are going it's almost all Malaysians that lack confidence in the national language particularly more within the middle class non-Malays.

What do the Chinese community really want? There's is nothing to say that using another language besides Mandarin is directly against what they really want. If BM or English is taught well, the Chinese benefit too. So, what does the Chinese community really really want?

Better education standards? Who sets the syllabus? Many different streams means tougher to implement changes. People always say that Lee Kwan Yew could bring changes easily to Singapore because it is a small country. A streamlined system is more efficient.

Maintaining high standard of Mandarin? Nobody says give up Mandarin. In fact teach it to more. Make a third compulsory language subject that students can choose from. Heck, add a fourth language option if you like. The more languages you have in your pocket, the better.

Preserving Chinese culture? Schools don't preserve racial culture, it's the community. Schools are only an extension of the will of the community. Malaysia has about 30% Chinese minority mostly concentrated in cities and urban areas. With so many Chinese about practising their cultures there is no threat to the Chinese culture. Any school can celebrate Chinese festivities and educate everyone on the various cultures in Malaysia.

What else does the Chinese community really really want? They are not threatened.

If all you are concerned about is public exam results that I must say that you do not fully comprehend what education is all about.



Rhan, sure the political reality sucks. But it sucks even more if the citizens fail to see the bigger picture. It's like so many fighting over non-issue scraps. Even PR has not come out with a national education plan. I mean the first thing I would do if I ever lead any country is to fix the education. Why? Because education sets the foundation of the country. The capital of the country is not in the gold reserves, currency or stock markets which fluctuates in value. The real capital is the citizen. The better educated the citizen, the higher their value. Even if the stock market crashes you can tell which country will rise up soon enough, the ones with high quality human capital.

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Dear MT readers,

I guess there should not be any argument with regard to the subject based on the statement below:

KUALA LUMPUR: The teaching of Mathematics and Science in English is illegal, a senior lawyer claimed today.

Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Abdul Rahman said the controversial system, implemented in 2003, was in direct violation of provisions under the Education Act 1996 which stated that Bahasa Malaysia must be the medium of instruction for core subjects.

Under section 17(1) of the Education Act 1996, it is specified that Bahasa Malaysia will be the main medium of instruction in all educational institutions in the National Education System except national-type schools or any other institution exempted by the education minister.

Aziz pointed out that section 18 of the act made it compulsory for core subjects to be taught in Bahasa Malaysia.

"The law as it stands today states that it is illegal to use any other language for core subjects, and Mathematics and Science are core subjects," he said yesterday.

Aziz said sections 1 and 6 of Article 152 of the Federal Constitution also state that Bahasa Malaysia should be the language in all official capacities, which include education.

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DJZ should compromise a little. Ok, you may say learning S&M in English not good, because of several factors:
1) Its easier to learn in mother tounge
2) Chinese are more succint than English(meaning, in the = sentence, chinese uses less pronounciation than English, therefore aid learning, for eg: Civil War= Ci Vil War, in Chinese; Nei(Inner, Inside) Zhan(War, Stand))

However, most UEC students will end up in Taiwan(where ppl regard Taiwan certs not good as Western ones). Even if there is some in UK,US, Aust. U's, there will face language handicap. If DJZ is very determined to fight for S&M in mother tounge, they must tell what is the best way to overcome it?

Btw, I do respect the DJZ for developing our education by improving the chinese medium, although i don't really agree with them.

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All but a few of you are missing the most crucial point in this debate.

Whether Math and Science is taught in English or Malay is irrelevant so long as you impart the material effectively. It will also help if the standard of English lessons, as a compulsory subject, is not dumbed down.

The teaching of Math and Science in English was a pet project of Mahathir, and had a stated goal of improving command of the English language....and nothing to do with increasing command or knowledge of Math and Science. Do you see the problem now? This is the type of half-baked, head-up-the-arse, malpractice inflicted by Mahathir.

And as an added bonus, Mahathir gets to poison the well with more racial rhetoric between the Chinese and the Malays while he marshalls his puppets and stooges for yet another round of robbing the whole lot of you blind.

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MalaysiaUnited.

You don’t need a poll, we tell what we observed and experienced. Until today the Malay still can’t make up their mind whether to emphasize English or Malay, am I wrong to conclude that the Malay lack confidence towards the Malay language? If the Malay is confused among themselves, you can’t expect a Chinese like me to tell you we are confidence towards the National language right? Most of the Chinese students nowadays are from the Malay stream at secondary level. It is your genius leader who told us Malay is not the best language for Mathematics and Science. We didn’t say anything at all and you can’t expect us to keep on adapting to your leader selfish dream or emotion.

For primary level, our stand is clear like what I wrote in my previous comment, and the single education system can only happen if the objective is about education and not political. Don’t bring in issue like integration or unity, this is merely politician rhetoric to continue stealing from rakyat, we don’t buy it anymore.

Hence don’t blame us for what we insist, how many Malay know college like Systematic, Goon, Stanford, TAR and FIT? This is what we went through in the past and even today. Only a stupid would listen to your single education system.

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AsamLaksa,

I agree with LChuah that you have a first rate mind in topic related to education, but how come you don’t know what the Chinese community wants?

We want excellent education and at the same time continue to learn our mother tongue. Does our government able to provide this in the so called national school? Don’t forget we had been cheated once in the seventies on the conversion of Sekolah Menengah Jenis Kebangsaan to Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan. Excuse is insufficient resources. Don’t you think the government should do something to convince us their sincerity this round? Or you make use of that professor dog to bark to us again?

Culture especially the Chinese Confucianism have many dimension. For an example the Chinese school name and anthem is part of it. How the teacher acts and delivers his or her message is also part of it. I believe school is the best platform for kids to understand all this values. I know it is subject to argument whether the Chinese should practice these cultural values in school but honestly I don’t see any harm. Do you mean to say the Malay is different from us on this aspect?

Does you notice that all the national cultural activity is actually concentrate only on Malay culture? The minority race has no option but to create our own. This happen in secondary school and university but what they present is more like a Merdeka show and has nothing to do with Chinese culture simply because we are sensitive towards others feeling?

How do you ensure us the Nationalised Chinese primary school do not face the same problem whereby we might need to apply to the education ministry just to perform a Chinese song or dance? Or no short is allowed? And many other changes that happen in our National school today?

Don’t you think the issue we face is no trust and discrimination? And you expect the minority to build up trust? Is this not what we did in the past 50 years? But the thief continues to rob us, now even their son imitates the same way. One day their cucu will tell you integration can only realised through religion.

Please ponder. Again and again.

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Another boring article about what language should be used to teach Science and Mathemathics. Malaysian's schools have been using BM, Mandarin dan Tamil to teach Science for a very long time. If I'm not mistaken during the 70's. We have managed to produce many scientists using those languages. So what is the problem?

Teaching Science and Maths in English is good, no doubt about it. Infact teaching both subjects in whatever language is good. The most important thing is the process of teaching. Is it not that education is all about the process and not the end result? Those who cant grasp such simple idea should stay away from education.

Among the many writers concerning English as medium of instruction for Sci and Maths, did they ever go to schools around Malaysia and see how thing were going? Were the teachers responsible teaching both subjects competent enough with English? What about the teacher's proficiencies? These were the pertinent issues which we had to address first before making any decisions whether to continue teaching both subject in english.

Students were sent to school by their parents because the parents were unable to teach their children themselves. Parents believed that teachers in schools were capable individuals who were trained to guide the children. Were the teachers responsible teaching Sci and Maths in English really capable to the extent the parents were made to believe? Dont think so. Dont believe me go to any schools especialy national type school around February next year when the schools activities are in full gear and you all will see how things are done. BM still dominates the process of teaching both subjects. The teachers' command of English are poor. If they use 50 percent of English during class, they themselves will get haywire let alone the children.

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written by FFT, December 18, 2008 09:20:02
...

Whether Math and Science is taught in English or Malay is irrelevant so long as you impart the material effectively. ...

The teaching of Math and Science in English was a pet project of Mahathir, ....and nothing to do with increasing command or knowledge of Math and Science. Do you see the problem now? This is the type of half-baked, head-up-the-arse, malpractice inflicted by Mahathir.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I reminds me of minions in a dictatorial state. A simple command sends people scuttling over a red herring. Yet these people still carry out the show as if it is real. Everyone knows at the back of their minds, the untold side of the truth.

The problem with the education system nowadays is not so much of how much the students benefit from it, but how much those interested parties benefit from it.

What is wrong learning an extra language to enhance ourselves? The willing hearts will jump on every occasion to learn it, while the wailing hearts will find on every occasion to dodge it.

We have no qualms over learning extra languages, but be reasonable and not to contort ourselves to learn them. Only the distorted minds see the well beings of others through a contorted glass for perfection. Why are we so concerned with the well being of others, when we ourselves cannot even think straight.

The only way to delude oneself that one is thinking straight is to align others into the same distorted space. The poor children nowadays are either put into a contortion chamber or be left to grow wild.

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