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Dong Jiao Zong should actually support the teaching of these subjects in English. Whatever tongue we speak, English is the language everyone in the world wants to learn.

Does Dong Jiao Zong have a good reason for the demands?

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I cant understand this protest. What's wrong with teaching these subjects in English? We all know 80% of these books and papers and reference are in English, it should be the way it is taught to enable a better transition into higher education and into the workforce. If they really want to improve the terminology of Science subjects and mathematics classes, they should expand their mandarin class to include these scope.

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DJZ, I think this is a trap! They are using you to do Operasi Lalang II. Btw DJZ should not resort to 'build a great wall of culture' to protect our culture including language. We need to accept only certain part of Western culture since not all of their culture suits us. Btw, can you pls tell me what is the translation of DNA in chinese? Zu Fu Hao?

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This is one of the better moves done by the BN govt. I do not understand the fuss raised by Dong Jiao Zong and whether he represents the majority of the Chinese School teachers.
Being an ethnic zonghua(chinese) myself, I am all for the use of English in Maths & Science..as well as BM as the main medium of communication in schools. This will go towards better adaptations, communication and also racial intergration amongst the people.
I shall never support anything with racial inclinations.

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i am chinese. i support teaching these subjects in ENGLISH BUT NOT BAHASA MALAYSIA. PERIOD! ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE. BAHASA IS NOT. WELL, MOST 1ST CLASS WORLD CITIZENS SPEAK MANDARIN, IF YOU CARE TO CHECK. BUT, BAHASA MALAYSIA, WHO SEAKS IT OVERSEAS??????

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Using mother tongue to teach Science and Maths is a practical way to improve ones monther tongue, and it's only done in the primary school.

Students are using Bahasa Malaysia in the secondary school and in their tertiary education. Are you saying learning mother tongue in primary school is the road block to national unity ?

Btw, learning a language is a form of human rights, pls respect it for others to respect u !

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I think the ONLY reason that Chinese schools are against teaching Maths & Science in English is simply because their teachers’ command of the English language is just as bad as their Malay teacher counterparts.

If that is the sole reason, then where does that leave our future generations?

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Malaysian education is a joke! The education system has been producing drone like students whom are "UNEMPLOYABLE" !!!! They are good for NOTHING, cant think, no opinion nor principles, cant commmunicate even though with a first class degree, no sense of accountability (guess who they picked this up from?) ,lazy, .......did I mention that they cant think?

I am all for one single national school PROVIDED the passing marks for each syallabus is set at 60% just like th good old days and the education system and syallabus changed otherwise my kids stays in the chinese school where there is a degree of quality and equal opportunity to all!!

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Hello Rainbowseahorse .. I studied in a national school. To understand why the Chinese schools use Mandarin to teach 'Math & Science', you may have to go further into it. One of the methods they use is the calculus. Would you agree with me that the calculus stimulates your brain rather than a calculator? Have you ever seen how fast a Chinese shopkeeper uses of those "bead machine" - remarkable isn't it? I myself have always been very curious to know why the Chinese schools keep producing excellent 'Math & Science students'! You tell me. Notice how strongly the Chinese schools are against the use of English for 'Math & Science'. They do not seem to object so strongly for other subjects.

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i am no part of dong jiao zong. they are from MCA. if they want to protest, just go and nab them and put them in jail or whack them up. i want to see what MCA has to say on this.

btw, i am a chinese and i support teaching math/science in english. btw, to correct someone who says teaching math/science in mandarin is the best, i beg to differ it. i scored 99% and way better then many chinese ed students in math and i am a true blue kebangsaan school. if i have learnt math in english since primary 1, i will better than i what i am now.

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For the first time ever we all seem to support the keris waving guy.

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Hi mountainking .. correction, pse. I said the Chinese use a special method in teaching 'Math & Science' and it works. It is a general comment. I am actually trying to look at it from a perspective point of view and understand why they insist so much in it being taught in Mandarin (btw, I am from a national school too!). Take Singapore for example. Math & Science is taught in English, and they produce top students. What is important to note here is that English is the medium of instruction. You are one of the 'gifted' ones, and so happens to have a good brain for 'Math & Science', whether in BM, English or Mandarin!! Hope this clears the misunderstanding.

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Cultured thief looking for reasons to wave his father's crooked knife...

xxx

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Ylcc, it's called an abacus. There was an article many years back that the Americans were having a swell time with it too. I do not know about now. (What really impressed me was a non-Chinese friend who did complex mathematical calculations faster than most people could use a scientific calculator using only a log book.)

However I disagree with general teaching of science and maths in Mandarin. Sure it's great for Mandarin speakers but not the majority non-Mandarin speakers. The defenders of teaching of science and maths in English reason that it should be so because the academic texts are mainly in English and it will help transition into tertiary education but here Dong thinks otherwise. Who is right?

It is the Chinese schools that feel threatened if these 2 subjects are taught in English, such as they risk not having the high level of scores as they consistently achieve. But what of the students in Chinese schools? Which language would serve them better in the near future?

Anyway it's all pointless to me. I strongly believe that it isn't the language that matters but it is the method that matters. Use whatever language you want, as long as you use the proper methods you will get good results. I studied in a La Salle school. The subjects are taught in BM but my teachers used English heavily as well. A kind of rojak. Having never read any English maths book I took the American SAT 1 maths component and scored full marks. In maths and science it all comes down to fundamental principles that goes beyond language (like football). I admit many mathematical terms in the SAT I had no idea what they meant but reading the questions as a whole I understood what they were trying to get at.

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ylcc,

Ok, if that's the valid reason for the Chinese schools, then emphasize that to the Education Minister…if that EDM does not listen or find hard to understand, give him some maths lesson the Chinese way. And if that doesn’t work, bash him over the head with an abacus! If that still doesn’t work, get all Malaysian Chinese to vote the BN out of government.

But what’s the valid excuse for non Chinese schools? Perhaps what I suggested?...i.e. teachers having bad command of the English language?

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I disagree with Dong Jiao Zong on this issue.

I believe their stand on this issue is out of sync with the feeling of most Chinese parents in this country.
Mandarin language provides the cultural and heritage link to our roots and past.
However, in this country, the community needs knowledge of English to survive and excel.

If the government allows SRJK(C) schools to go their way, Chinese parents may begin sending their children to national schools in droves if those schools increase the number of lessons and subjects to be taught in English and make the study of mother touch compulsory to all students.

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INterestingly, i did some observation. Here are some facts that Hishamudin may want to look at. I was supportive of the move till I see these result and hear that people in kampungs are falling badly due to language.
http://amoker.********.com

Similarly, the Washington Post (12/10,
Glod) reports, "Results of the Trends in International Mathematics and Science
Study (TIMSS), released today, show how fourth- and eighth-graders in the United
States measure up to peers in dozens of countries. U.S. students showed gains in
math at both grades." Specifically, "the average score among fourth-graders has
jumped 11 points since 1995, to 529." Still, "students in Hong Kong, Singapore,
Taiwan, Japan, Russia, and England were among those posting a higher average.
Hong Kong topped the list with an average score of 607." Meanwhile, the "average
science performance" for students in the U.S., "although still stronger than in
many countries, has stagnated since 1995."

One of his(Mukriz) suggestion was in parotting his father's direction to have science and maths taught in English (non mother tongue). Both Malay and Chinese nationalists insists that it is the wrong strategy. So, lets look at the result and compare the medium of instruction in their public school system.

Hong Kong ( Mother tongue - Mandarin)
Singapore ( "Non mother tongue" - English)
Taiwan ( Mother tongue - Mandarin)
Japan ( Mother tongue - Japanese)
Russia ( Mother tongue - Russian)
England ( Mother tongue - English)

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I suspect Dong Jiao Zong is superficially afraid that by accepting the teaching of the subjects in English, the government, later on can argue that since the vernacular schools can accept the teaching of the subjects in English, then why not teach all the other subjects (beside Mandarin or Tamil) in English or BM, thus indirectly losing its vernacular school characters. The same situation happened years back when they rejected the appointment of Chinese HMs without a pass in Chinese language at SPM that sparked the infamous Operasi Lalang (I wonder a pass in Chinese language can be infered as having Chinese patriotism when these people sending all their children to Englsih or national schools compare to those who do not studied Chinese but sending all their children to Chinese schools). If that's their fear then they have the ground to react in such a way.
However personally speaking, the current arrangement is the best solution
where pupils the vernacular schools can learn the subjects in both Mandarin or Tamil and English. It's give great benefit and advantages for the pupils later on epecially when they go to the secondary or college/university level. My own experience, I found that many current college/university students do not really master in English and have difficulty following lessons which are entirely in Englsih in most of the private colleges/universities. I even heard general opinion from parents whom children (even my own nephews and nieces)are studying or graduated from UTAR which I always have high regards,lack command in English, why not, since almost all the students in the university are Chinese, therefore they tend to speak Mandarin or their mother tongue in their everyday dealing including discusing their lessons. Competitively they lost out to those who graduate from overseas.
Though the working of Dong Jiao Zong is to protect the overall character of Chinese education in this country however they should be more reasonable when the overall well being of the Chinese students is affected. The present arrangement is the best since Chinese students can learn both the important subjects in two imporatant languages in the world and the same time the character of the schools are protected. It is not that by adding the teaching of the two subjects in English the character of the school is gone. Many have the perception that KTAR and UTAR are the two Chinese tertiary institutions in this country (pehaps that's one of the reasons Malays students refuse to apply to study there) but lessons in the college/u are conducted mostly in English, why not in Mandarin?
It is true and we should be alarmed that Chinese students especially from rural areas are weak in Englsih. Common perception that Chinese even Indian students are good in English do not apply nowdays.

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Note that the protest came from a teachers' association.
I think the problem here is it's the teachers who are difficult to adapt.
If they can teach, why can't they learn as well?
The methods of teaching the 2 subjects can be maintained as they are efficient and chinese can still be used as a medium of communication and in other subjects.
The issue now is, can the teachers put efforts to improve their command of English.
I feel they should, before the current govt decides to use BM for Maths & Science and make matters worse!

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What is so wrong with the teaching of Science and Maths in Mandarin just in the primary school ?

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India produced mathematician who is faster than computer.They are employed in foreign universities.Physic noble prize winners.tec.
They study maths and science in english.
I had a statitic Prof who graduated from Taiwan.He can teach though he may be good.We lost out due to his lack in english fluency.
Just do not made it difficult to master the language for our children.Some chinese students who are from chinese school,mainly making up the hair stylist industry cant even speak BM.
What so great of the school?

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Hi RBSH! (still insist you find a shorter name!!) You are so nice to talk to, ever so polite. I like you. Respect begats respect.
Abacus! - that was the word I was looking for ... thank you. I do agree with you that Chinese teachers would not find it as effective in teaching 'Maths & Science' in another language. I just believe it works, it is positive, and I would also approve of teaching 'Math & Science' in other languages if it works. Pse note that 'Math & Science' are taught in English in Singapore, but the medium of instruction is English. Other than these subjects, and Mandarin as a language, I would agree to the Chinese schools using English as a medium of instruction. OK, BM - what to do, if they want to force BM down our throats - do we have a choice?

So agree with you, just have to vote BN out ... cheers

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RBSH, yr question: "But what’s the valid excuse for non Chinese schools? Perhaps what I suggested?...i.e. teachers having bad command of the English language?"

You and I know the answers. What else do you want me to tell you?

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Hello AsamLaksa,thank you for the word 'Abascus' too. The whole day I was trying to remember that name (this grandma is getting old!) ... I concur with your points. Pse see my reply to RBSH where methods taught in any language is fine. Frankly, I don't mind at all because I am pretty bad in 'Math & Science' myself. I am not defending anyone ... just saying to leave good things alone. I think everyone seems to be straying away from the main issue (including myself) that UMNO feels it is the language that is tearing us apart. I disagree. I believe strongly that even if BM is used, the non-Malays will always be regarded as "pendatangs". UMNO will always be Malay/Muslims first, Malaysians second.

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Hishamuddin,

If you really want positive changes to come by for education in this country, reintroduce some additional English medium primary and secondary schools in each state and rope in good teachers to support the cause. But to avoid any hu-ha from detractors, just let all the current schools systems to remain to deflect them from saying there is no choice. All will have an additional choice instead. Then the natural supply and demand factor for all schools will take over. This will be a straightforward but expensive exercise and will also take time to succeed but what to do, a very serious mistake was committed on the education process more than 30 years ago! Let's all try to accept and correct the situation with humility..it's going to be worth the effort for all little and young Malaysians!

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Dear RBSH/AsamLaksa, I have posted this statement by LKY before on MT:
"Everybody has the same chances in education and we chose a neutral language – English. Rather than legislating, we just said that you either go to an English school where you learn your mother tongue as a second language, or you go to
a Chinese, Malay or Tamil school and learn English as a second language. After a few years, parents discovered that having English as a first language led to better job opportunities, SO THAT SOLVED ITSELF. Malaysia went the other way by throwing out English and adopting Malay. The Chinese and Indians decided to have their own schools, teaching in Chinese and Tamil, and now they have a divided
society."

That was how the vernacular schools disappeared in Singapore!

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Most of you missed the point. Teaching Maths/Science in Manderin must be looked into as a whole package in the context of the total Chinese education. The Chinese education defender Dong only ask that the subjects be taught in Chinese until primary 6 and after that the subjects will be taught in English or BM. It is utmost important for the survival of Chinese education that the students be able to master the use of Manderin during this 6 years of primary school. Therefore it is the contention of Dong that all subjects be taught in Manderin except of course the language subjects of English and BM. This is a matter of live and death of the Chinese language in Malaysia. Surely nobody except the racist Umno goons would like to see the extinct of the Chinese mpther tongue.

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Thamipoh, that was how it used to be pre-Mahathir days. It may be "life & death" to keep the Chinese language in Malaysia because of BM, but not for Singapore. All races are going about their daily lives, and maintaining their separate identities, cultures, languages, and festival celebrations - BUT, it did take Singapore a very long and painful journey before the vernacular schools became extinct, and only because they chose a neutral language - i.e. ENGLISH.

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"Just do not made it difficult to master the language for our children.Some chinese students who are from chinese school,mainly making up the hair stylist industry cant even speak BM.
What so great of the school? "

Arum,

Never resort to this kind of personal attack !!
I believe every individual in this planet earth has the rights to master ones mother tongue.

What DJZ requested is to study Science and Maths in Mandarin in the primary school. From secondary school onwards, it's all in BM or maybe English. Is it too much a burden ?

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If the command of English is bad, have more hours in the teaching of the language.

DJZ have no objection to the teaching of Maths & Science in English in the National School, they only object to the Government determination to force them to teach it in English in their school. So what is the issue then?

The Chinese Primary School, despite their dependence on goodwill and charity have perform remarkably well in these two subject, who are you then to tell them what to do?

For Tamil school, I think the teaching of Maths & Science should be in Tamil.

If you are looking after the interest of rural malay, think of how these young malay students is going to cope up with Maths & Science? Can they understand what is being taught?

To me all these discussion is just politic and the politician is just trying to score points. The education ministry people never think long term and have no strategic thinking. Just narrow minded useless bureaucrat.

If you want Malaysia to be back to her golden age, bring back English as the medium of instruction in Malaysia.

To me, Primary school should teach the student in their native language unless their parent wanted to send them to english primary school. Then transfer them to secondary school where the medium of instruction be in english.

The whole World is already a global village and our Education Minister still think about Ketuanan Melayu.

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DJZ have no objection to the teaching of Maths and Science in English in National Schools because

1. It's not under their purview as there is NO SMJK schools in this country that uses Chinese as a medium of instruction.
2. Their objection is basically their fear of the lack of number of classes conducted in Mandarin that will lead to an erosion of Mandarin learnt at those SRJK schools.

Few Chinese parents in this country would want to their children from SMK schools to study in a Chinese medium university.
Their first preference had been and would always be an English medium University.

So if DJZ were in sync with the aspirations of the community, they would have pushed for the improvement of and retraining in English proficiency of Science & Maths teachers in SRJK schools the past five years and not just harp on poor language ability of the teachers when a review is due.

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Alamak - fix New Era College first! Can't clean own shit want to make more noise. Quietly vote out UMNO la! Campaign in KT in support of PAS makes more sense!

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If we Chinese community and Chinese school do not object to the teaching of mathematics and science in English, we should have no problem in FUTURE to have the teaching of mathematics and science in BM right?

Those parent who prefer the teaching of mathematics and science in English please enroll your children to sekolah kebangsaan, no one force you to come to Chinese school.

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Teaching in English is good for the chinese school students because English is the international language. No choice. Chinese students in chinese schools can go bi lingual because they are very smart.

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Education Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein said the ministry had shown its seriousness in the issue by holding four roundtable discussions with interested stakeholders......krismuddin you are totaly useless.what do you mean by "interested stake holders"?all malaysian are interested and all malaysian are stakeholders!it is not stake holders we talk about here,it is the birth right of all malaysian.

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Ylcc, erm... it's "abacus".

Anyway, from what you are saying then this issues is not really of what is the best language to teach at least these 2 subject but rather about cultural and political dominance. Great. Haven't we have enough of using education as political tools all over again where the losers has always been the students? It always comes down to defence of some race.

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That's the problem with certain chinese in this country especially the chinese educated they tend only to speck mandarin. hokien etc. Just pay a visit to Singapore and see for yourdelf how the chinese in Singapore speck English excellent I must say. That also goes to certain malay group who only want's to speck malay among themself. How do we expect the country to progress with such a
mentality.

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oops it should be speak spelling error!!!

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Ala..... if they want to stick to teaching maths n science in chinese mah let them lor. Afterall, they still can produce top notch maths n science students.If they cannot catch up later mah their own funeral lor. Why want to worry so much? Further more i dont see any hinderance to unity in allowing them, after all when come to secondary school, all will be mixed except for some SMJK schools, MRSM and the SMA schools. For the sake of unity how about get rid of these types of schools instead of arguing over the medium of instruction for maths n science?

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How do we expect the country to progress with such a
mentality.

Don't worry, the Chinese educated progress well, don't you see some of us could still afford to hire a English speak Philippines maid?

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If something is working fine, please do not try to fix. Work on things that have gone wrong ,for example,UMNOputra vote buying,NEP woes,rampant corruption,police bias,UMNOputras constantly violating sedition act,religious intolerance.

This issue in itself is simply to create an issue over a non issue ,thus diverting from the real issues that would eventually destroy the UMNOputras. The Chinese education and its syllabus / curriculum have produced "thinking" and hands-on and easily employable people anywhere -Japan,Korea,China,Taiwan,Hong Kong,Singapore ,Brunei,Indonesian ,Malaysia. The Minister would do more justice by fixing the poor performance of local universities in their ratings with other universities in the region and around the world. Local universities should be subjected to a massive revamp. Minister ,please start here first where you have total control, and the rest would follow ,by example,not by arm twisting and crying over non isssue

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At the end of the the victims are the students! Too much politics in the name of race and religion. Trying to make an issue of a non-issue...

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