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Should a Pious Muslim Practice Yoga? PDF Print
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Monday, 01 December 2008 14:24

In Iran, where cheerless clerics have inveighed against everything from poodles to the pants-tucked-into-boots look, yoga is popular enough to warrant its own magazines and the government has made no fuss (but thanks for bringing it to their attention, muftis of Malaysia!).

By Azadeh Moaveni, TIME

Iranian women practice in their yoga class in Tehran.
Iranian women practice in their yoga class in Tehran.

To the long list of things that everyone else loves but that Muslims are supposed to hate — democracy, dogs, women with uncovered hair — we can now add yoga. A council of muftis in Malaysia issued a fatwa over the weekend banning yoga for Muslims, claiming that the sweaty 'Oms' and other Hindu elements of a standard 60-minute yoga class could "destroy the faith of a Muslim."

For a moment, this news had me selfishly worried. I've been contorting myself into reverse triangle across the Middle East for about a decade, and I fretted that all my favorite yoga centers and teachers might get hassled by morality police types. I also worried about my friends who do yoga — if there is one thing the stressed out populations of cities like Tehran, Baghdad, and Cairo really don't need, it's the loss of a safe, indoor means of relaxation. Fortunately, I suspect the muftis' edict comes far too late. Muslims, at least those of the Middle East, have been practicing yoga widely since the mid 1990s, and in some countries the exercise is now as commonplace as it is in blue-state America. (See here for a story about Christian yoga in America.)

In Iran, where cheerless clerics have inveighed against everything from poodles to the pants-tucked-into-boots look, yoga is popular enough to warrant its own magazines and the government has made no fuss (but thanks for bringing it to their attention, muftis of Malaysia!). Across the country, including religious cities like Mashhad, there are thousands of yoga classes held each week, and there is a class for every yogi: for children, the elderly, the overweight, the spiritual. There are contemplative, patchouli-scented yoga centers, austere Iyengar centers for the very serious, and flow classes in gyms for women in chic yoga clothes who just want arm tone. (See here for pictures of facial yoga.)

The Iranian love affair with yoga is a complex thing, born of many factors. There's the general disenchantment with strict, orthodox Islam and the accompanying pull to alternative forms of spirituality. There are strictures that women face in exercising outside covered, and the appeal of gentle, indoor sport. Add to all that yoga's global fashionableness and Iranians' high rates of anxiety and depression, and you have the first genuinely yoga savvy middle-class in the entire Middle East. (See here for pictures of Iranian society and its struggle for modernity.)

Not once, in all my years in Tehran, did I hear anyone suggest yoga might be incompatible with Islam. Indeed, the city's packed yoga classes overflowed with believers, instructors who started class by venerating the Prophet Muhammad on his birthday, Ramadan classes where everyone was fasting and went all noodlely by the end. Most seemed sensible enough to realize you could lower or raise the spirituality volume of yoga as you pleased, and that doing downward facing dog didn't make you a bad Muslim. One of my girlfriends even attended a Sufi yoga class where the teacher played the daf (a Persian frame drum) and everyone chanted to the Shi'a Imam Ali. Many, like my mother, like to note the similarities between the physical sequence of Muslim prayer and asanas, claiming harmony, or at least fatwa-free ground, between Islam and yoga.

In the Arab Middle East, yoga is pretty much still the domain of yuppies. During a stint studying ashtanga in Cairo, my classmates were either expatriates or Egyptians who had returned from the West. In Beirut, the city's largest yoga center occupied a gorgeous old building in the Christian quarter, and drew a sophisticated mix of Christians and Muslims alike. The Lebanese, however, tend to prefer gym yoga. Attending a yoga class at one of the city's many posh fitness centers means that ministers can chat on their yoga mats, and pop stars can show off their headstands, a convenient way of getting centered and being seen at the same time.

At all my various yoga classes in the Middle East over the years, I always had the feeling that everyone wanted to be there. But apparently there are a few Muslims out there who're not sure whether yoga is halal, haram, or makrooh (that is, the permissible, the forbidden and, the last, an in-between category known as "the disliked," including shellfish and cigarettes and other appealing things faithfuls Muslims can partake of without being actively condemned).

The question of "is making yoga allowed?" does appears on Muslim web sites, and I've found myself wondering just who the doubting yogis might have been in all my many classes. The quiet types taking up the back row, who wear deliberately plain workout clothes? The chatty, devout housewives who got bored during the breathing exercises? That the forums' experts and mediators rule so contradictorily — some rule haram, while many more judge yoga harmless — suggests there is no fixed Islamic position on yoga, just as there is no fixed type of yoga itself. The place of yoga in the lives of most Muslims, I imagine, will not be shifted by Malaysia's fatwa. Those who practice will practice, the super-pious will frown, and the anxious minority will pose questions like this one, which appeared on the site Ummah.com: "But what if someone starts a business, e.g. a spa, which offers yoga?"

 

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written by ahmadneil, December 01, 2008 14:29:08
Even Ayatollah Khomeni practice yoga,so do the pope and Dalai Lama.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, December 01, 2008 14:37:17
As pointed out by fellow blogger…”ananth”…in another article “A Fatwa Against Yoga? And How Would This Reflect On Muslim?”…

“Discontented with life in Mecca, he (Prophet Muhammad) retreated to a cave in the surrounding mountains for meditation and reflection. According to Islamic beliefs it was here, at age 40, in the month of Ramadan, where he received his first revelation from God”.

So, what's the big fuss?
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written by ahmadneil, December 01, 2008 14:53:49
Come on all muslims,practicing yoga will surely helps you all to be a healthy muslim.It was never in the Koran that say muslim are forbidden to practice yoga.
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written by MasterYoda, December 01, 2008 14:55:09
Got this forward from an email.

Makin hari umat Islam makin ditindas dan dikongkong. Bukan oleh orang Cina, atau orang India atau orang Yahudi atau orang Kristian. Tetapi dianiya dan dikongkong oleh orang Islam sendiri.

Selepas fatwa pengharaman yoga, fatwa-fatwa yang akan datang adalah seperti berikut :


Disember 2008
Orang Islam dilarang mandi di kolam renang awam. Di kolam renang awam, akan terdapat orang-orang yang bukan Islam yang memakai pakaian renang yang singkat dan mendedahkan aurat (terutamanya amoi-amoi china yang cun dan seksi). Ini boleh menjejaskan akidah orang Islam. Cara yang paling baik ialah kita haramkan orang Islam dari kolam renang awam.

Januari 2009
Orang Islam dilarang pergi ke Pulau Pinang. Ketua Menteri Pulau Pinang adalah seorang yang bukan Islam and majoriti penduduk Pulau Pinang adalah orang yang bukan Islam. Apabila seorang Islam berada di Pulau Pinang , beliau mungkin terhidu bau char keoy tiaw yang dimasak oleh orang bukan Islam dan ini boleh merosakkan akidah kita. Cara yang paling baik ialah kita haramkan orang Islam dari pergi ke Pulau Pinang. Orang Islam yang kini tinggal di Pulau Pinang akan diberi elaun pindah sebanyak RM 3000 untuk membantu mereka berpindah ke negeri-negeri yang lain. Perpindahan ke negeri Kelantan dan Terengganu amat amat digalakkan.

Februari 2009
Orang Islam dilarang meminum root beer. Walaupun root beer tidak mengandungi alkohol, namun perkataan "beer" ini boleh menimbulkan keghairan dan kelakuan tidak senonoh di kalangan orang Islam. Dengan pengharaman root beer, orang Islam bolehlah meminum minuman ringan yang lain tanpa was-was. Ginger beer juga diharamkan.

March 2009
Orang Islam dilarang memakan di kedai mamaak. Walaupun mamaak kebanyakkannya Islam, tetapi asal usul mereka adalah India dan ada kemungkinan terdapat unsur-unsur India di dalam perniagaan mereka seperti bercakap Tamil dan memakai seluar dalam buatan India . Untuk mengelakkan sebarang syak wasangka, mulai 1 Mac 2009, orang Islam dilarang dari memakan di kedai mamaak (kecuali Tun Mahatir kerana dia sendiri mamaak kelas I)

April 2009
Orang Islam dilarang bermain ping pong atau table tennis. Ping pong berasal dari negeri China dan oleh yang demikian, mungkin terdapat unsur-unsur agama Buddha atau Confuciusism di dalam permainan ping pong. Ornag Islam yang terlalu banyak bermain ping pong akan terjejas akidah mereka. Sebagai permainan alternatif, orang Islam digalakkan bermain sepak raga (tetapi bola raga mesti buatan Malaysia , bukan dari Thailand ).

Mei 2009
Orang Islam yang berkerja dengan kerajaan dilarang mengambil gaji masing-masing. Ini kerana sebahagian besar pendapatan kerajaan adalah cukai pendapatan yang dibayar oleh syarikat-syarikat orang bukan Islam. Orang Islam digalakkan meminta sedekah dari orang Islam yang lain. Untuk memudahkan permintaan sedekah, bakal peminta sedekah digalakkan mencangkung di hadapan bangunan UMNO.



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written by MasterYoda, December 01, 2008 14:55:40
Jun 2009
Orang Islam dilarang keluar negara. Terdapat terlalu banyak godaan yang boleh meruntuhkan akhlak dan akidah orang Islam. Perkara ini telahpun dikaji dengan teliti hasil lawatan sambil belajar ke Bangkok oleh Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan baru-baru ini. Oleh yang demikian, orang orang Islam diminta menyerahkan balik paspot masing-masing ke jabatan immigresen secepat mungkin. Perjalanan keluar negara hanya dibenarkan untuk menteri-menteri dan orang kuat UMNO sahaja, itupun hanya jika diiringi oleh ahli Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan.


Julai 2009
Orang Islam dilarang berfikir di waktu siang. Kebanyakkan masalah jenayah dan maksiat wujud kerana orang-orang yang tak ada kerja berfikir yang bukan-bukan. Untuk membenteras maslah jeneyah dan maksiat, orang-orang Islam mulai 1 Julai 2009, dilarang dari menggunakan otak mereka diwaktu siang. Pemikiran mereka akan dipantau oleh Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan dengan menggunakan sekumpulan specially trained monkeys. Orang Islam boleh menggunakan otak mereka di waktu malam tetapi pemikiran dihadkan kepada perkara-perkara berkaitan dengan makan dan minum sahaja.




Please do not laugh. Many of the above will become a reality if we do not do anything. The rational-thinking muslims in this country are simply not doing anything. We let a very small minority of narrow-minded idiots to control our lives. We, especially the Malay muslims, are fast becoming a laughing stock worldwide. We are obsessed with the little little things.

When there are so many important things remain to be done, why must the Fatwa folks spend their time on little things.. tomboys, yoga, etc, etc. Why don't we ever hear anything from the Fatwa folks for social justice, eradicating corruption and poverty, protecting single mothers, helping the poors, educating the ummah, protecting the environment or ensuring fairness in society.

If you are a rationale, forward thinking muslim, please speak up. If you choose to remain silent, it only means that you agree with whatever is happening. And do not blame the non-muslims for all our troubles. We are asking for it.
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written by pixieface, December 01, 2008 15:03:02
One thing has been puzzling me. Alcohol is forbidden but when you go to
5 star hotels most staff at discos and bars are muslims.
So you have muslims serving guests alcohol. Ironic or what???
Over to you fatwa council.
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written by joeawk, December 01, 2008 15:23:07
What is so wrong about yoga when most practise for health.

No cure for this and no cure for that. No, there is a cure for every ills. If it cannot make money for the pharmaceutical company, then no medical people will agree to the cure.

Yes, there is a cure for cancer, aids, and almost every ill which are caused by pathogens, virus, parasites, bacteria,etcv.

Need to know more, just email: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and ask.
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written by Rainbowseahorse, December 01, 2008 15:25:22
More than 50% petronzing the 4D outlets are Muslims...and Gambling is haram; right?
Someone asked me: "Alcohol, gambling, corruption, and eating pork are all haram;yah? Then, why do a lot of Muslims willingly drink alcohol, gamble, and accept bribes, but recoiled in horror when it comes to pork?"

I couldn't give a pausible explaination!
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written by densemy, December 01, 2008 15:49:42
RSH... the answer is quite simple really. Alcohol, gambling and corruption are all appealing in their way

Eating pork has no appeal at all... half the time you wouldnt care if it were pork or chicken or turkey you were eating. So its dead easy to shun pork
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written by arazak, December 01, 2008 16:11:23
Thanks to the Muftis at The Fatwah Council, the Islam Hadhari is now an international laughing stock!
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written by Rainbowseahorse, December 01, 2008 16:29:21
densemy,

What that person meant was, these very Muslims who willingly partake in the other haram items would go to great lengths to ensure and to find a halal eatery.
In effect, these people are practicing ‘selective’ Islam…or sort of like getting three out of five will get them a ‘passed’. In other word, a Hippocratic Muslim! And we have tons of such Muslims in Malaysia, and most of them are UMNO members!
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written by Badaksumbu, December 01, 2008 16:30:59
I think I can quite understand the writing, not just about agreeing. My view is these group of people who prompt to give fatwa are not exposed enough and having difficulty in understanding the complexity of Islamic religion, whilst in one hand Islam is a simple religion. We are going to face more of this as a result of the ulamak are not equipped enough to face the reality of the world. Who are leading the world in Islamic know how not Malaysia!

Kadayan Journal
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written by Sword of Justice, December 01, 2008 16:31:57
It is a joke. Muslims in Malaysia appears to be weak in their faith that doing yoga can make them be a Hindu.
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written by hakuna, December 01, 2008 16:33:42
MasterYoda - very well coined. You really cheered me up with this antidote.
Good on you Mate.
You never know they may take you seriously.
JAKIM may offer you a Directorship and the Government a Datukship when all your antidotes become Fatwas.
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written by OilMan, December 01, 2008 16:46:12
Eating pork is haram in Islam and we should respect the teaching. However during famine and if there is no food available then the consumption of pork is allowed. Tolerance is very much encourage in our multi racial society. Only in Sabah and Sarawak will you find a Muslim (halal) and a non-Muslim (non-halal) stall is available in a shop. It is vey common to see two friends (a Muslim and the other non-Muslim) eating (halal and non-halal food) together on the same table without any feeling of remorse. Majority of Malaysians should learn from Sabahans and Sarawakians on the issue of tolerance.
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written by carribeanking7, December 01, 2008 16:49:53
RSH-

Both are haram- but pork may be eaten in times of "darurat" curfew or famine.

In some Islamic countries that legislate syariah law, drinking alcohol is a whipable offence while eating pork is only punished by a fine.

These are clearcut cases, Yoga is about erosion of akidah or faith, these are not so literal.

Hence Muslims get irritated when non-muslims take literal verses out of the quran and ridicule it.
It must be read together with the hadith and sunnah
sunnah is the prophets was of life, hadith is the prophets teachings.

As RPK has pointed out, it some Muslims he has an issue with not Islam.

Of late I have seen much holier than thou statements and "fatwa jokes " circulating that is not helping the situation any.
That is deeply hurting Muslims.

The question should be how independent is the fatwa council under UMNO/BN payroll.
I hope when DSAI takes over - my Muslim countrymen demand that the fatwa council be independent of the executive--for all our sakes.

Vijay Kumar Murugavell
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written by The dragonheart, December 01, 2008 18:03:45
Should a Pious Muslim Practice Yoga?

The answer is simple.

YOGA... NO
Partial yoga is not yoga. To achieve true yoga u must do all the ritual ... if not how can u call it yoga?

The logicis like this...Shandy is a mixture of alcoholic beer and lemonade. Lemonade is halal, alcoholic beer is haram... therefore shandy is haram..

Exercise for health ...YES

as long as the exercise is not what real yoga is practicing. And if u do exercise of partial yoga then it is not yoga. but if even the partial yoga has a slightest association of other god like, then it is haram.

Why people so worry about Muslims who disobey Islamic laws.. does it affect the non Muslims? Those Muslims who do sins will face punishment from God if they are not punished on earth. If the Muslims boys under the age of puberty do sins, their parents will also be punished by God. If Muslim wives do sins, not only them shall be punished by God but their husbands too.

Don't compare Arabs with Muslims..not all Arabs are Muslims. Not all Arabs are pious, so do Malaysian Muslims.

I keep on wondering why the non muslims in here so worried that the Muslims are following the path of the Quran and the Hadith? That is our source of laws. It got nothing to do with the non muslims.

In psychological operation sense, i smell that if the Muslims are weak in their faith, then Islam will be weak in Malaysia. If Islam is weak, then the Malays will become more weaker than they are today.

As a malay, I strongly says Malays are weak, they are meant to be weak by the UMNO so that they can be used for the UMNO's agenda. But majority of the Middle Class Malays are strong in their Islamic faith.. which makes the Malays still survive on their own rocks.

With due respect to YM RPK, your articles are ok to Muslims but the way people are commenting and attacking Islam and "Malay" per se is a very dangerous psychological propaganda not to the Muslims but to the non-muslims to "hate" the Malay race and Islam as a whole. People in here are derailled and ignorant from the actual Islamic jurisprudence.

This will create an unhealthy relationship among Malaysian and i am sure the next general election it will be tougher for the oppositions to gain more ground in their political arena due to the racist and anti Islam attitude of commentators and bloggers in here.

You are not playing the game right. You won just over 1/3 majority and to spill the milk. You lose that way before u reach the finish line.

I support opposition (including the Chinese based parties) way before the last few elections but now i see many people in here are behaving similar to UMNO and MIC meetings... I am no politician, no racist nor an extreme religious man.. but i do have enough substantial followers who listens to me..

You people read things on the surface only... read the pak pandir story.. and some of you do think like pak pandir..
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written by cheekhiaw, December 01, 2008 18:11:05
Yeah, for pious muslims speaking in tongue, walking in circles and throwing pebbles should be sufficient exercise...

xxx
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written by Hope4all, December 01, 2008 18:51:40
Jakim, Fatwa Council, UMNO... Malaysia is not a place for you. Please move to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia or Sudan.

You'll definitely have a lot of competitors there!
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written by chanatak, December 01, 2008 18:57:11


While sitting down in meditation over this troublesome matter, I hit upon an ingenious win-win solution.

Let's all call it "Agoy" and not not yoga. The clerics have their win, and the practitioners can go on doing what is good for them
smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

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written by gurkha_malaya, December 01, 2008 19:14:47
all muslim n non muslim are invited visit this blog

www.saudagarsenja.********.com
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written by Alice, December 01, 2008 21:08:53
Should a Pious Muslim Practice Yoga?

smilies/shocked.gif smilies/shocked.gif The answer is NO!! Pious muslims should be in heaven by now so how to practise Yoga?? smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by hamid, December 01, 2008 21:15:53
written by The dragonheart, December 01, 2008 18:03:45


YOGA... NO
Partial yoga is not yoga. To achieve true yoga u must do all the ritual ... if not how can u call it yoga?

The logicis like this...Shandy is a mixture of alcoholic beer and lemonade. Lemonade is halal, alcoholic beer is haram... therefore shandy is haram..


Your logic is sound like this! I agree alcohol can make peoples life miserable but you cannot denied that alcohol can put to good use in medication, so because alcohol can make peoples life miserable is that mean alcohol cannot be use in medication???

Your logic is super stupid !
smilies/grin.gif
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written by cheekhiaw, December 01, 2008 22:16:12
The alchohol they use as disinfectant is different. That one was produced while certain music was at play, and with the molecules facing a certain magnetic direction...

xxx
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written by temenggong, December 01, 2008 23:22:13
Please, no more yoga. I am tired talking to the natives and the unwashed! smilies/smiley.gif
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written by temenggong, December 01, 2008 23:24:39

Let's all call it "Agoy" and not not yoga.


I told them to cut the crap and switch to pole dancing.

Some people never learn! smilies/grin.gif
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written by AsamLaksa, December 01, 2008 23:27:55
Hamid, The Dragonheart's logic is not at fault. If alcohol is haram then any product that contains alcohol should therefore be haram.

The problem is not his logic but how the haram is applied. Is the very existence of alcohol haram or the specific use of it is haram?

This is where the problem will arise as some products do have alcohol as an ingredient but do not have much or any alcohol left in the finished product. Such can be seen in some food products where brandy is added but after being cooked or baked, the alcohol level becomes negligible. Sure you can taste the brandy tanginess but you won't get drunk on it. This is currently still haram.

What of other products containing alcohol like alcohol cleaners? Is alcohol hand wipes haram? Is the haram bit just on ingestible alcohol? If so, what about handling other substances in the alcohol group should such as methanol, propanol, etc.

Recently in UK a Muslim supermarket checkout clerk refused to process the sale of alcohol. The clerk made a fuss of it and made the shopper feel embarassed. Is touching the bottles haram? Is selling alcohol to non-Muslims haram? It's really not a big problem which can be sorted easily. I mean if the clerk didn't want to process the sale of alcohol, then put a notice up to inform the shoppers and make a supervisor readily available to handle it. The point here is that no one is sure how far does the haram extend to.
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written by shan, December 02, 2008 00:40:53
What is haram at home becomes hala when you are out of the country.,.Muslim in Malaysia cross the border into thailand,arm them self with a bottle of whiskey and 2 pooiying (thai chick) and party away.When they return home they,become pious and start shunning the kafirs and condemning them.
You think the pooiying they pound in thailand doen't take pork,.,tell me about it you hypocrites..,.,I once took a muslim to thailand for a payoff,he got drunk,had a chick by his side,ate fried pork belly but refused the chicken because it was not slaughtered by a muslim.After 4 harams he decided to bribe god by refusing to eat haram chicken.,.and he was the butt of the jokes with my thai friends.
Most muslim interprete Islam to their convenience and this makes even a murderer a martyr. smilies/grin.gif Pay a visit to golok and see for yourself how our pious muslim embrass Islam with women,wine and drugs ,not forgeting deep fried trotter.
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written by LukeJr, December 02, 2008 04:30:16
who those who are non-muslim, i dont think it's appropriate for u to speak a word in this topic. they will ask us to shut up if we dont shut up at the 1st place.

so, just keep quiet, sit down, pop some corn, and enjoy the debate
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written by hamid, December 02, 2008 06:26:59
written by AsamLaksa, December 01, 2008 23:27:55

Hamid, The Dragonheart's logic is not at fault. If alcohol is haram then any product that contains alcohol should therefore be haram.


This is a major problem with Muslim's, unable to understand the "good" and "bad" of any kind of product. If weapon can caused death, that doesn't mean we should not use it as protection???

Dear AsamLaksa if you want to engage with me a debate, feel free to mail me at " This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ".
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written by hamid, December 02, 2008 06:44:58
AsamLaksa, petrol contain of alcohol, why don't you stop using it???? Now can you see how stupid your statements is smilies/cool.gif
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written by bambolero, December 02, 2008 07:30:01
Masteryoda your comments are very true.You see the light and your eyes are wide open. At least you have got the guard's to speck out.
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written by Areyaar, December 02, 2008 09:06:19
One of the powers anjoyed by thinking, rational adults is the ability to distinguish good from bad. And we have to accept that life is all about making choices. As adults we take on this responsibility in everything we do.

Politicians for example make their choices about whether to be true to the rakyat they are elected to serve, or to serve their own self interests through corruption while knowingly ingoring the needs of the people. They can choose to observe decorum in Parliament, or to be boorish, vulgar and arrogant as we have seen. Here too the powers that be can choose whether to punish these barbarians, or not. (It is surprising that no fatwas have been made on issues such as these.)

Likewise, the ordinary man or woman makes choices in the way they conduct their lives. Some choose to sincerely observe the principles of the religions they belong to, while others might chose to show off how well they observe rituals while ignoring the spirit of their religions' teachings.

A Muslim friend tells me that she has no qualms about continuing with her yoga exercises as she has been a stuanch Muslim in her heart and mind regardless of the fact that she has been doing these exercises for over twenty years. Regarding the opinions on yoga (and she says a fatwa is an opinion), she says it is good to be given advice but she feels very insulted by the implications when taboos are laid down with the threat of punishment.

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written by Rainbowseahorse, December 02, 2008 09:31:22
Oilman & carribeanking,

Of course I know for us Muslims, eating pork is haram, but that is cancelled out if we need to do that to save our life. Same goes with human flesh, and drinking still suckling baby’s urine, and many other guidelines.

What I am asking is, in a nutshell, what’s the difference from gambling, drinking alcohol and accepting brides (which are all commonly practiced by many Malaysians) from eating pork as all of them are classified as haram in our Muslims’ faith?

Haiyah! Forget the argument lah! Quite pointless and leading nowhere Same as this stupid topic on Yoga.
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written by AsamLaksa, December 02, 2008 10:21:54
Hamid, what's your problem? In logic model if A = B, B = C, then C = A. Thus The Dragonheart's 1st premise is alcohol is forbidden. 2nd premise is Shandy contains alcohol. Thus Shandy is forbidden. Is this wrong? Is this not logical? It's a simple logical model. Nothing more.

Following logic, this model applies to all products containing alcohol. However be warned that though the logic is sound it is not right. If you were to read up more on logic you will discover that it's is a rather linear system of rational thinking. Most logical statements have rigid parameters. Thus any answer derived from logic requires further culling to fit in the context.

Take for example: Fugu is poisonous. A Japanese dish is made with fugu. Thus logic will derive that the Japanese dish is poisonous. However in truth the Japanese Fugu dish is edible. The logic process is sound but the conclusion is wrong because the parameters are too lax.

The Dragonheart's simple logical statement is not applicable when you extend the application into other non-ingestible products containing alcohol. Wow. No surprises there.

Nevertheless, Hamid, your reply lacks objectivity. Just because you do not agree with The Dragonheart, you find flimsy reasons to negate his statement. A half-right doesn't make a right. I do not agree with most of what The Dragonheart says most of the time but I cannot claim here that his application of simple logic is faulty.

If someone says that the haze hit KL badly since the 1990s and that punk bands have been getting more popular since the 1990s thus punk bands caused the bad KL haze; then I would say that the logic is faulty as there is no... ah... I have forgotten the term for it. Something about cause and effect. Funny thing is such faulty logic is very widely used and popular. Examples include women wearing sexy clothes leading to them becoming victims of rape, tomboy culture leading to lesbianism and special rights means tuan.

By the way, Hamid, thanks but no thanks. I decline any personal contact as I wish to keep my relationship with MT and the commentators at arm's length. Perhaps someone else would be interested to keep you entertained via e-mail. Any takers?
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written by bambolero, December 02, 2008 12:01:05
Oops!! MasterYoda your comments are very true,and you see the light with your eyes wide open.At least you have the gut's to speck out.
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written by Mirage, December 02, 2008 12:16:57
I have read most of your thoughts and opinion, and I would like to share some opinions of my own. As per my earlier writing, a lot of the rationale of the muslims and malays are centered around ensuring the language is maintained and the faith is practice correctly and when its not or unsure, the fatwa council come in. Again the rationale of the fatwa council can be seen as NOT consistent or lack of growth in the idea of Islam in a modern globalise world.

I am personally not a muslim, but I have every respect for every religion that practices good and helping others. This is also the fundamental of Islam however, through interpretation and test of time, the interpretation has change to "practice good and helping only muslims of the same faith" Ask yourself whether the Islam religion really wanted this. If so, the muslims can only survived in an all muslim society of the same sect only.

And my other question is whether 3/4 of the world is wrong if they embrace other religions if the earlier interpreted version is correct (which I think NOT). If so, there will never be unity in this world.

Finally, I have a lot of Muslim Malay friends who do not believe in the earlier interpreted statement of helping and defending only the muslims but in defending the rightiousness of all while still practicing good Islamic faith and values. Hence if the faith is strong it does not really matter if there is a chant in yoga or not. What is most important is NOT taking the religion for granted as mentioned by a few where the malays gamble 4d, drinks and etc. And also the fact that many Malays are voicing out are also the malays who have gottem overseas education. Does that mean banning that education as well to protect the believes that are no longer a reality like language.
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written by hamid, December 02, 2008 20:41:46
written by AsamLaksa, December 02, 2008 10:21:54

Hamid, what's your problem? In logic model if A = B, B = C, then C = A. Thus The Dragonheart's 1st premise is alcohol is forbidden. 2nd premise is Shandy contains alcohol. Thus Shandy is forbidden. Is this wrong? Is this not logical? It's a simple logical model. Nothing more.


AsamLaksa, maybe Dragonheart's logic is not at fault when compare alcohol with Shandy contains alcohol drink, but it's definitely not logic compare with Yoga because Yoga and alcohol is totally two deferent issue. For you information Yoga got nothing to do with Hinduism, you have to understand that. For a example: Hindus always use milk to perform they're prayers, so is that means Muslim's should avoid taking milk in they're daily life??

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written by hamid, December 02, 2008 20:56:51
By the way, Hamid, thanks but no thanks. I decline any personal contact as I wish to keep my relationship with MT and the commentators at arm's length. Perhaps someone else would be interested to keep you entertained via e-mail. Any takers?

This is a main problem with Muslim's, they're very fond in critics the non-muslims but not wiling to take the criticism. Muslims is like Katak dibawa tempurung!

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written by hamid, December 02, 2008 22:12:09
Roslin Mohd Daud, Yoga instructor, said: "Even the chantings are not religious. If you translate the chants, it just means ‘may we both be nourished, may we both work together with great energy, may we not hate or dispute each other.’ It finishes with the word "Shanti" which means peace.”

http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/15570/84/


Dear AsamLaksa, did you see what i means!!??


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