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To Immunize or Not to Immunize PDF Print
Saturday, 29 November 2008 17:45
Does the Malaysian Royalty deserve to get back their immunity?

First of all, let us define just who the royalty are before we continue to debate this course of action. The Agong and Sultans are definitely the royalty. So are the tengku(s) and the raja(s). So are their wives and children and every Ali, Ahmad and Mohamad remotely related to any of them. Through bloodlines and via marriages, they can all be considered as royalty. Adoptions as well.

Now we come to the other part, immunity. Full immunity? Partial immunity? Conditional immunity? Full immunity is very simple to define. It means that the royalty is absolutely above the constitution and the law. The government cannot bring them to court and the royalty does not have to justify for any of their words and actions. There is no longer a grey area between legal and illegal – there is just basically an unbroken line separating those subjected to the law, and the royalty. Partial immunity? This means that an understanding between the royalty and the government must be spelt out on a piece of document stating specifically what the royalty is immune from and what is not. Something like the royalty is immune from civil cases but not criminal actions. Conditional immunity might stipulate that only the sultans are immune and not anyone else, and whether it is full or partial conditional immunity.

When the people empower the government to grant full immunity to the royalty, there can be no turning back. No public outcry if those immunized does something unthinkable or deplorable. No government sanctions. No legal recourse. No public prosecution. No retribution. No nothing. It is akin to granting that person(s) the absolute right to do anything they want, however they want to go about doing it and whenever they want to do it. No reasons are required. No questions can be asked and no long arms of the law can touch them. Zero accountability. Zero ramifications.

If the government does in fact grant the royalty conditional full immunity, we have nine sultans that qualify for it. Add in their wives and immediate family, we could be looking at a three-figure number. In Britain, only the Duke, the Queen, her children and their spouses, and her grandchildren are granted immunity from the law. That is less than 15 in all. In the US, nobody is above the law.

Think about it.

Hakim Joe


Comments (24)Add Comment
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written by rizzku, November 29, 2008 18:05:13
PR somehow promise to return the immunity (not sure which kind) to the royalties. This would be one of the splitting issues PR need to explain very carefully. I am definitely not in favour of anyone acting beyond LAWS.

Even now, there are TWO laws for all Malaysians. For the commoner and for the VIPs. No need to create the third group, ie ABOVE ALL LAWS.
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written by ahmadneil, November 29, 2008 18:21:30
In the beginning I don't mind but after a few nasty incidents of royalties who refuse to pay sport cars tax,brush with laws,beat up motorists and having bodyguards who don't subscribe to the rules of laws, changed my mind.Our royalties are different from those in European countries where they are adored by their countrymen.They are very well loved.They follow the rules of the law and respect the wishes of the rakyat.I have reservation for ours!
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written by binarytan, November 29, 2008 18:24:49
anyone could recall the ex of Johor ruler who covered the law under his own hand? in democratic system, everyone is the same under the law even he is the king. our country has many immunity such as UMNO members and also the mighty TUN who are above all laws.
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written by sonofmalaysia, November 29, 2008 18:34:04
Immunity for royalty is only for those royalty who are held by the ppl in the highest regard and those Rayalty know that they have to carry them to a high degree of morality ,integrity and regality . SAdly, in Malaysia, there are too many bad apples that could hardly meet the standard !!

Of the thousands of crime Mahahypocrite committed, he did this one correct -- removing the immunity for royalty.
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written by doggone, November 29, 2008 18:35:56
Golfers might like to think about taking up another sport. Caddies certainly will.

Foreign Investors might think trice before coming here and local banker have to chew and not just bite their lips regarding unpaid loans.

Would the rakyat need to run helter skelter when they see a copter hovering above?
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written by varvoom, November 29, 2008 18:57:25
Nowadays immunity is questionable The rule of law has changed over the past fifty years and now incorporates the idea of human rights. If someone is tried, whoever has information should come before the court to make sure that justice is served. But on the same basis will the Monarch be able to fulfil their function for the people if the privilege of immunity is not there. . I think the fundamental question may lie on whether one is a Monarchist or a Republican
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written by Motherchell, November 29, 2008 19:04:52
Hakim Joe ! well written piece in the skepticism and fears you ponder about . It bugs me too ! I have my reservations too !!

In this humble debate, i hope we wont be accused of barging in to nitpick their rights and make the holy angels run amok! The responsible Citizens who want to be counted need to come out and make a stand in this important . They have to stop procrastinating ! The winner is the nation -- not the evil within with its ugly head.

Looking deep into what may be prominent is the pronounced edifice of how the UMNOPUTRAS seem the Royalties now ! In other words TDM worked so hard to savor it for himself and his cronies in duplicity.

More deliberation is needed to get the Royalties into the realm to show justice,peace, harmony,abundance,patience,perseverance etc and most of all the power to check evil begetting evil!

http://sjsandteam.*********.com/
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written by Motherchell, November 29, 2008 19:06:24
Apologies -- typo omission---
The responsible Citizens who want to be counted need to come out and make a stand in this important issue.
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written by Bloodhound, November 29, 2008 20:11:06
Why would anyone want to be above the law?

Unless the law is drafted inadequately or against the natural dictates of justice, there should be no grounds for anyone to need to be above the law.

If the law is bad law, then, everyone should bear the consequences and should work together towards dismantling such bad laws. There should be only one law for everyone and placing individuals above the law will have serious consequences/ramifications and once the person is above the law, there is no way that anyone can reel them back into place in order for natural justice be seen to be done!

If there is no consequences in any actions, then, there is no necessity for that person to ensure that one's action is appropriate, proper or even legal before undertaking such actions. Those persons who are recklessly and seriously disadvantaged or damaged or injured by the immuned party would have no right of action whatsoever eventhough they are innocent people.

The only persons who would sought to have immunity are those who have no respect for the laws of the country or those who needs an opportunity to be out of reach of the long arms of the law. How else could anyone interprete such senseless demands?

Can anyone guarantee that no rakyat would be placed in such disadvantageous positions if immunity is granted? - nobody can ever give such guarantees! The best way is to make sure that nobody is or can be above the law - this is the best safeguard for the safety or democratic the rights of the people. Our past experiences should be our guiding light and they tells us that nobody is perfect - not even certain elements within the royalty.

What the future may bring, nobody knows. But we all know that if nobody is above the law, everyone will observe the rule of law which ensures the safety and future of the people of the nation!

We love our Royalties but fair and just Royalties would never need nor demand such obnoxious burden to be borne upon their subjects.
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written by densemy, November 29, 2008 20:30:35
Bloodhound Why would any ETHICAL person want to be above the law? There are plenty of Malaysians who would want to be and plenty more who are
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written by KotaDamansara73, November 29, 2008 20:31:45
Nobody should be above the law.
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written by Arubin, November 29, 2008 21:01:16
Egads...don't we have one sultan who beat up a bunch of tourists from Brazil not too long ago? No royal immunity and he still behaves like a common samseng. Imagine what he will be like he he's suddenly above the law.

No freaking way. Stripping away their royal immunity was one of the few Mahathir-era legacies that I actually find to be agreeable.
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written by Steven Tan, November 29, 2008 21:50:24
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

200 percent I DON'T AGREE with the idea that Malaysian Royalty to get back their immunity because most of them and their family 99.99% will MISUSE it in future. Trust me, the father (king) will be the biggest crook and his sons (prince) will be the biggest and unstopable gangsters in town. At that time the PDRM not will close one eye BUT close both of their eyes if any situation involving the royal family and ordinary rakyat like you and me.

TDM has done lot of damages to Malaysian BUT THE ONLY one thing he did correctly was striping the Malaysian Royalty immunity.

Still remember the hockey coach and the golf k.d been assaulted by the Royal Family????

Even in the current situation we the ordinary rakyat couldn't do anything, just imagine if they are above the law...

The only Royal Family that we all can trust is our RPK, besides him I doubt we can trust or benefit anything by granting the immunity to Malaysian Royal family.

Once they have the full power, they won't be using their "head" to think but will be using their "heart" to think and at that point of time, if they want anything belong to you, like it or not, you have to surrender it to them.... I'm sure all of you know what I meant by that.

There are few Malay Movies will show this type of situation, among that "SULTAN MAHMUD MANGKAT DIJULANG" and "ANTARA DUA DARJAT" are the movies and there are many other movies that will give a clearer picture on how this royal family will react when they're fully in control.

So never ever do this mistake by giving them the immunity... It will be like "dig our own graveyard".... smilies/angry.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/cry.gif
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written by Steven Tan, November 29, 2008 22:05:56
Attn:- DSWA, DSAI, and all the leaders in PR Government,

P.L.E.A.S.E. don't do the BIGGEST POLITICAL MISTAKE by granting back the IMMUNITY to Malaysian Royalty. smilies/angry.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/cry.gif
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written by lynn, November 29, 2008 23:33:52
But grant total immunity to Raja Petra Kamaruddin? A big sounding YES.
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written by FFT, November 30, 2008 06:18:56
You misguided numbskulls bellowing for immunity granted to RPK are going against everything RPK stands for and fights for. No one should be above the law.

Immunity is not the issue, but empowering the royalty back to their role as a check and balance against the Federal and State governments. Something that Mahathir removed a long time ago. But a lot of you simpletons are making a pointless ballyhoo about immunity. They don't need immunity, they need their constitutional muscle back.
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written by mikewang, November 30, 2008 07:29:53
I think the state sovereigns are already adequately immunised against prosecution in their conduct of matters of state.
In fact in matters of personal conduct, their prosecution should be made easier and not subject to political manipulation by the government through the Attorney General.

I don't think the rakyat would like to see a repeat of, in the extreme cases, people getting hurt or killed with no remedy to the aggrieved.
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written by Tompios, November 30, 2008 07:42:32
DO NOT GIVE THEM IMMUNITY.
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written by Ninja, November 30, 2008 15:10:03
No one should be above the Law, Rulers in particular.
Giving them immunity will allow some to return to their previous sins. Some royalties do not behave like royalties but thugs.
Don't allow them to run amok.
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written by pixieface, November 30, 2008 21:32:54
IMMUNITY?? Against what and for what??? That is the question???
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written by jonath66my, December 02, 2008 00:07:21
We hope our rulers don't go the way of some politicians who behave like 'gods', live like 'kings' and lords over the people like their 'slaves'.see 'Above the law' www.jonathan66-my.********.com
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