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Hilmi questions Guan Eng’s frequent mention of Caliph Umar PDF Print
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Wednesday, 19 November 2008 09:13

, THE EDGE

The frequent mention of Caliph Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz and the phrase “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” (enjoining good and avoiding wrongdoing) by Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng has been questioned by a Barisan Nasional backbencher.

Lim frequently mentioned the caliph, a social reformist and one of the finest rulers in Muslim history, who ruled from 717 to 720.

Datuk Seri Dr Hilmi Yahaya (Teluk Bahang-BN), during his debate on the Supply Bill 2009, questioned if Lim was qualified to invoke the caliph’s name or the phrase.

“You should not use these at your whim and fancy.

“Are you qualified to speak about the caliph? Even the phrase “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” has been used in your posters all over the place.

“It has not been ascertained if you or even Professor P Ramasamy is qualified to use them.

“The matter should be referred for clarification with the mufti who has to determine if you can use the caliph’s name and the phrase,” Hilmi added.

Permatang Berangan assemblyman and Penang Islamic Religious Affairs president Shahabudin Yahaya said Lim should not use the term “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” as he is not a Muslim.

Debating the Supply Bill 2009 presented by Lim last Friday, Shahabudin said Lim and other non-Muslim assemblymen and MPs should stop using them on the banners put up in the state.

“It means to avoid or shun wrongdoing, do good and to enhance one’s faith in Allah, and not to Jesus or to any “tokong” (deity). You are not Muslim, so you should not use it,” he added.

On the Budget 2009, Hilmi said there was nothing new or innovative about it except for the initiative to set up investment and tourism offices in the Klang Valley.

“Most of initiatives you have mentioned are already in place, which were initiatives implemented by the previous BN government.

“You should thank the previous state government for these efforts which you are now pursuing.

“Instead of setting up offices to attract investments, the state government should work hand in hand with Mida and Matrade so that when there are interested investors, they would be channelled to Penang.

“Even setting up an office at KLIA would defeat the purpose as tourists would have planned their trips way before hand and not only when they arrive in the country,” he added.

Hilmi also said the state government was being unrealistic in its claims to wipe out poverty in the state by the end of this year.

Lim then clarified that the state government had not made claims of wiping out poverty but hardcore poverty.

Phee Boon Poh (Sungai Puyu-DAP) then accused Hilmi of not practising what he preached about the poor.

“You refuse to attend meetings to discuss issues related to the hardcore poor and never even bothered to send a representative. It shows you’re not interested and as is the practice in Umno, always asleep and never willing to cooperate with us for the benefit of the hardcore poor,” Phee added.

Syed Ameruddin Syed Ahmad (Bayan Lepas- BN) then asked Phee if the committee headed by Phee was incapable of making decisions without Hilmi being present.

Phee replied that this was the negative mentality of the BN representatives, to which Datuk Azhar Ibrahim (Penaga- BN) said since the people had voted in the Pakatan Rakyat government, they should do the needful.

“You should govern and do whatever is necessary, why should we come and help you?

“If you are not capable to govern, then you should admit that and maybe then we can help all of you,” he added.

Phee then said at least the PR government was willing to include the BN representatives unlike when the BN was in power, when he (Phee) was never invited.

“This is Umno’s arrogant style of leadership, even helping the poor is being politicised,” he added.

Hilmi, meanwhile, said it was pointless for the BN representatives to be in the committee as they were the opposition.

“When you do a good job, we won’t make noise but if you fail, we will reprimand you. That is our role as the opposition, not sit in with you in a committee where we will not be able to criticise,” he added.

Comments (40)Add Comment
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written by fireduck, November 19, 2008 09:34:40
“When you do a good job, we won’t make noise but if you fail, we will reprimand you. That is our role as the opposition, not sit in with you in a committee where we will not be able to criticise,” he added.


Even President Barack Obama (Democrat) is considering candidates across the political divide to fill the various positions once the Elections are over. That is for the good of the nation, where suitable candidates are appointed based on their expertise, not necessarily on party allegiance.

But here, the BN folks still think in terms of yours and mine. They think that Opposition is only good for 'criticizing'. Why not turn it around and give 'input' --- FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR CONSTITUENCIES!

You have every right to hentam the policies if they are no good, but why are you scared (takut) of being a part of the improvement process? Disgraceful backward mentality, Hilmi!

Guan Eng in administering the state, is willing to listen to 'the other side' in an open-minded approach. This IS unlike the BN's approach, where it has always been "My way or No way". Why can't you guys put aside politics and work for the good of your constituencies? Or are you still going to expect your constituencies to ignore your track record, or lack thereof, simply to be 'bribed' by goodies come the next General Election?
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written by DreamLady, November 19, 2008 09:39:06
Dr. Hilmi, I beg to differ your view regarding the usage of islamic verses or words by non-muslims.

As an avowed Muslim, your mind should be open to all aspects that the exposure of Islamic rules and teaching or verses is a very gentle and subtle way to influence and further invite the non-Muslims to embrace our religion. Thus your mission as a true Muslim is acomplished, God shall love you dearly for your act.

Do clarify if you have a valid reason why a non-Muslims are not allowed to recite verses. Is it a sin for other non- Muslims to learn the true meaning of Islamic teaching by painstakingly going through the arabic writing ??

And who are you to say that the non-Muslims are not supposed to recite 'amar maruf nahi mungkar'... please, don't act as though you are speaking on behalf of Allah.

Be fair to the chief minister, what he is trying to do is to get closer to all Muslim folks he deals with on a daily basis and he wants them to know he is eager to learn about the religion.

Is it a SIN to spread the relgion of Islam the better and civic way???

It is a pity that you got the gelaran as a Dr. as I see that the title does not hold any merits at all!!!
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written by Sudahlah tu, November 19, 2008 09:47:36
Hilim is the guy that instructed the case of a mat salleh management who seems to harrassed a lady in the pharma-manufacturing to be closed and they mentioned that he got 'something' for doing so.
For someone who rather gave away a Malaysian pride and integrity to a 'uncalled' for attitude of a mat salleh and claimed that umno cares for the Malays.
Pity that lady .... as she is just another subject for hilim to makes something out of her case.
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written by Thinker, November 19, 2008 09:49:54
Next up, police report against LGE for mentioning the caliph and using the phrase.
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written by sflee28, November 19, 2008 09:51:55
When I was in school, all kids regardless of race were exposed to learning and recite of Jawi. Some non muslims were also interested in the Ugama classes.
After reading Hilmi's question, I have regreted and feel like an ******* exposing to these religious issues.
If something good has come out from it, good positive values and outcomes, we should encourage it.
There were no questions asked nor any differentiate of race or culture in my days in school and also at work. I believe at that time WE WERE TRUE MALAYSIANS, but not now.
Today's leaders introducing policies and publising races superiority, kissing the kris,etc are BIG *******.
Where is the spirit of muhibbah, how can we as malaysians live together.
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written by rotibakar, November 19, 2008 09:58:04
and i thought Islam was for everyone??!?!?!??
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written by Batangkali, November 19, 2008 10:02:07
Under Islam UMNO, kafirs cannot talk about Islam.

Under Islam UMNO, all UMNOputras can steal, rape, C4 non Bumi, makan suap, screw daughter, murder, all O.K., semua halal, if not bertaubat sahaja.

Islam UMNO is above all other islam thinking, other muslims are inferior to UMNO muslims, especially kafirs.

Islam UMNO is 30 % superior over non UMNO muslims.
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written by Kaneeneh, November 19, 2008 10:05:26
So, if you do not pray to the tokong, then you have no right to mention the word tokong or even the word Jesus if you are not of the faith? So, if you not a Chinese, you cannot say KANEENEH or Wakera.
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written by Mark C, November 19, 2008 10:06:21
This Dr Hilmi's doctorate is real one or bought from Edison Uni of Tech? smilies/grin.gif
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written by Braino, November 19, 2008 10:07:22
If they want to be so strict about it, why use non-halal money from non-muslim income tax, gambling, cigarrete and liquor tax. So can use non halal money selectively?

The right thing to do now is to reject all taxes received from non muslims.
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written by miwaki, November 19, 2008 10:08:01
Helmi,you are definitely wrong to question anybody for using Islamic verses whether he is muslim or non muslim.Practicing virtuous deeds is not something confined to certain followers of religious body,even atheist and extra-terrestrial beings can practice it.

I would be very happy if you can recite some buddhist verses propounded by our great teacher Gotama Buddha.We will never stop you from using these verses in any of your ceramah or in Parliamenet.

Your outburst concerning Guan Eng's ability to quote the verse is totally unacceptable and it just demonstrated your limited understanding of your own religion.Frankly speaking,I doubt you actually practice it in your daily life !
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written by disgruntled, November 19, 2008 10:10:28
Dear chief minister, do not lend an ear to any of these uncultured BN dogs. They have nothing to contribute to the state except to argue endlessly on religious issues. Do not fall into their trap. Move on and do what you believe is right for the state. Do not get bogged down by petty issues like these religious arguments and what not.
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written by shan, November 19, 2008 10:24:03
Hilmi ,you talk about islam like its your personel property, You were living under the rocks and on trees when islam was founded and brought to the malayan shores by the Chinese and Indian,.,.,And the Malay sultanate mbrasssed islam for protection from the siamese.,.,So my dear selfcentred infantile egoistic moron,,,Ehem Hilmi the coward,.,what are you biching about.The is only one god,you punk,whatever you do or say,.,,,he hears and is waiting to sulu you soon.
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written by adan, November 19, 2008 10:28:55
It is NOT the USE of CALIPH's PHRASE by Guan Eng that is HURTING these one-track minded Goons but THE MESSAGE (= ENJOIN GOOD AND AVOID WRONG-DOING).. the message strikes with FULL FORCE on the CORRUPTED AND THE WICKED who 'ENJOIN THE EVIL AND AVOID GOOD'.!1
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written by chrisyong, November 19, 2008 10:29:27
I am sure Islam teaches believers to be GOOD. True Muslims should be overjoyed when they hear non belivers reciting verses. How else to reach out and spread the good news of Islam. The country's national religion is Islam and application of Islam teaching is LIMITED to Muslims. I just don't understand how to function under such understanding. I think the applicaton of Islam teaching has been abused in Malaysia. Is Islamic teaching standard in this world? I believe so, since the holy book is standard. Are other Islamic countries applying and interpreting it the same way. Malaysia is not the most ISLAMIC COUNTRY IN THIS WORLD. Looking at the magnitude of Corruption!
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written by lamakawan, November 19, 2008 10:34:35
I like this KANEENEH! Bageroh too!
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written by wood, November 19, 2008 10:36:37
It is simply amazing some of the things people say ! It defies logic.
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written by Mr Smith, November 19, 2008 11:00:36
I am befuddled how the UMNO mind functions. It seems it is perfectly alright for Muslims to quite all the wisdom sayings from the west but wrong for Muslims to quote the wisdom of Islamic scholarships.
Dr Hilmi, you are pitiable soul.
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written by IbnAbdHalim, November 19, 2008 11:02:18
Helmi and Shahabudin should go and tell the Arabs not to use the word "Allah" or invoke Allah's name because it's UMNO's privilege. And go tell the world that "ALLAH" is Malay rights. And tell the world that Prophet Muhammad is a Malay and only Malays are allowed to use the name. And only Malays are allowed to mention Muslim names and use any Islamic phrases.

Shame on you UMNO when non-muslims are getting nearer to Islam and you all are drifting away. May be you all should join Abdullah bin Ubay bin Salul.
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written by ciahcra, November 19, 2008 11:18:11
With these kind of peoples running our country, no wonder non-muslims have negative perception towards Islam. Islam's image are not being tarnished by non-muslims, but by those muslims themselves. I'm a muslim, and as far as my knowledge concerns, I don't recalled anything that say non-muslim cannot quote caliphs' name, nor quote anything from the Quran. There are many out there who quote phrases from Quran, and try to use it (with their own explanation) against Muslims, so why not condemning them? Instead, these leaders are condemning the people who actually try to get people to do what Quran and the caliphs asked us to do. This is sheer arrogance of our leaders. If the Muslims themselves cannot remind each other what the Quran asked them to do, they should be thankful because there are non-muslims willing to remind them.
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written by Tom n Jerry, November 19, 2008 11:24:40
Malaysians,especially Muslims here seem to have ignored the fact that Islam is also a universal religion;there are more practising Chinese muslims in China than malay muslims in Malaysia;so it can be inferred that Islam is for anyone who wants to follow and not for any particular race;I personally think its worthwhile to note that you can choose a religion on your own free will rather than being shoved upon you at birth without your consent;how pathetic!Human beings are supposed to have some universal Law of Human Rights;and freedom of expression & religious beliefs are two of them! smilies/grin.gif
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written by carribeanking7, November 19, 2008 11:24:44
Assalamulaikum waramatulahi wabara katuh Dr.Hilmi

You are what is known as a munafiqoon.
LGE never claimed to be an expert on Caliph Umar, he was merely esposing the good values adopted during the Ummayad caliphate.

Or are you just saying this to boost your chances for the UMNO supreme council elections.

Wallahualam

Vijay Kumar Murugavell
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written by Alice, November 19, 2008 11:32:32
Hilmi you should actually thank Lim Guan Eng for further reinforcing what has been taught in Islam and to actually coax the rakyat to follow the true teachings.

amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” (enjoining good and avoiding wrongdoing. I a Christian would have thought that this was great teaching and ought to be practised from the heart.

It is a SHAME that you feel otherwise. Good things taught by anyone from any religion should be appreciated. I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYONE FROM THE UMNO SIDE SPEAK FROM THEIR HEART AND REVEAL GODS WORDS FROM THEIR HEART. I APPRECIATED ISLAM DUE TO RAJA PETRA OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE MUSLIMS WERE ONLY INTO FORMS AND LACK SUBSTANCE.

HILMI you are quite a disgrace to Islam and should try to be a true muslim and get out of your tempurung.

good luck hilmi in your search for God.!
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written by dinsmann, November 19, 2008 11:34:10
Kenapalah sempit sangat otak si hilmi ni. Susahhhhhhhhhhhh!
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written by tanwi, November 19, 2008 12:12:40
I think everyone should read the book God Is Not Great (Christopher Hitchens) which 100% explains idiotic mentality like this fool.
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written by ENCIK NASIR, November 19, 2008 12:19:17
It is lame that some people think that they can own history and lamer when they think they can also own the language of the hereafter and chastise other for using it in the open. Ok, let me be fair, some people are also lamest for using both history and languages for political mileage. So beware of bigots, right wingers and the so-called extremist, they exist in our very midst. Peace.....
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written by Jit Dharma, November 19, 2008 12:23:46
Brains full of shit.If they are called racist bigots, they feel slighted. They
want to be loved even as they spout the most hateful rubbish. In this case the
ideal is too difficult for them to live up to. Let's put the phrase in a language that they can understand. English for example, say 'uphold the good, shun evil' and they will say "I'll only follow Arabic/Muslim phrases". Apparently only Arabs and Muslims know how to, "uphold the good and shun evil". They should drown in a pool of dung.
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written by MalaysianUnited, November 19, 2008 13:35:20
to my non-muslim fren..

phrase “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” is not a religious word..everyone can used it.

With this kind of BN leader, I think PR Penang still be relevant for next GE..

Go Lim Guan Eng!!

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written by riversnail, November 19, 2008 13:40:23
dear stupid ****ed up brain Hilmi,
dont wear coat/trousers/tie because you are not a christian!
maybe you shouldnt wear underwear too if it is branded with kafir's name!find out if is is halal!!
i really dont understand how this type of fanatic idiots can be in the govt representing the people who voted for him!!
at least this stupid ****er should realise that people would laugh at him for his comments that LGE is not a Muslim so he cant use the caliph's name!!
syabas to UMNO for producing this kind of stupid fanatics with this kind of mindset in the millennium smilies/angry.gif
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written by nafis, November 19, 2008 14:00:33
right.............so this bloody fool hilmi implies that 1. Guan Eng should always mention Imam Had-hari as everyone's role model

that 2. the phrase amar maaruf nahi mungkar should only be uttered by the amno-malays only

that 3. non-muslims should not advocate Islamic leaders as good examples

buang lar title "dr." dalam longkang baru betul smilies/grin.gif
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written by citizenmy, November 19, 2008 14:44:56
“Are you qualified to speak about the caliph? Even the phrase “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” has been used in your posters all over the place.

The Calip is a figure in history, and the phrase is just Arab words. Everyone has access to this, same as when we refer to Alexander the great.

This BN moron should correct the facts if they are wrong, not simply say even mentioning the caliph name and some phrases in Arab is forbidden to some.

God gives this BN Moron the right to decide who shall / shall not speak about Caliph and use Arabic phrases?

I am amazed with the mentality of this type of leaders. And they supposed to get Malaysia developed by 2020?
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written by Ali Cordoba, November 19, 2008 15:10:16
The frequent mention of Caliph Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz and the phrase “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” (enjoining good and avoiding wrongdoing) by Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng has been questioned by a Barisan Nasional backbencher.


This applies perfectly well to Malaysia. It is the abandoning of 'nahi mungkar' that has brought the country to such a mess here. Umno must learn from the DAP menteri besar and scuttle to adopt “amar ma’ruf nahi mungkar” if it want to survive the political onslaught it is facing!

No problem for the MB to use that and so too Hilmi can contest it but that does not mean Hilmi cannot be a doctor! Most doctors r really 'confined' in their 'attitudes' and 'thoughts' anyway!
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written by cheekhiaw, November 19, 2008 15:22:20
Thief Hilmi against Caliph Umar...

xxx
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written by tommycol, November 19, 2008 16:01:08
well , it just goes to show how narrow & idiotic minded these Amno goons are.
with such minds how is the nation going to progress????????
these morons aren't even fit to be in the opposition let alone to govt.
i wouldn't even vote for these shallow 'otak' overmy dead body!!!!! smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif
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written by KTRaj, November 19, 2008 16:31:59
MR.10% (Hilmi), ask any developers or contractors in Penang. Who is MR. 10%??? Shame on you Hilmi... did you clarify with mufti when you were deputy CM to accept 10% of $$$$ every projects which you approved???
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written by seethinkact, November 19, 2008 18:22:33
Dear Hilmy,

Are you demonstrating an example of what a follower of the Islam Hardari Sect practices? You must be an excellent example of a perfect nincompoop!! Go get a life la..
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written by Ironside, November 19, 2008 21:41:37
Oii,BAHLUL,Islam itu kan UNIVERSAL.Don't talk through your arse, stupid.
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written by Kopi37, November 19, 2008 22:12:06
Why should YB Phee waste time to invite the pigs to the meeting when knowing the pig can only contribute to eat and fart away and waiting to be slaughtered?! Let them sit and bark like mongrels until the next GE, the whole Umno will turn opposition party nation wide and thereof become extinct! Umno will become history.................
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written by mrbean, November 19, 2008 23:23:12
who is this mthr fckr to tell us who is qualified to use the caliph's name?
the caliph is a historical figure and anyone can quote or use his name if it is done so respectfully.
that person doesn't need to be a muslim.. what fck is this hilmi talking about.. go to hell , i am tired of such politicians.. who has an empty head..
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written by Fart Fart Wah, November 20, 2008 01:17:53
IT LOOKS LIKE THE CALIPH IS HILMI'S FATHER...AND HE OWNS HIS THE CALIPH..

IT IS THE SAME ..THEY PUT SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE CALIPHS AND MUHAMMAD THAT THEY FORGET IT WAS ALLAH WHO IS THE GREATER...

FOR THEM IF YOU INSULT THE PROPHET OR ANY CALIPH..YOU WILL BE FATWA-ED FOR SILENCED OR EVEN KILLED...( recent history of violence shows who takes a more important role..Allah or the prophets)

HOWEVER IF THEY THEMSELVES INSULT ALLAH BY ALL THE NONSENSE THEY DO AND BREAK HIS DIRECT COMMANDMENTS THEY EXPECT ALLAH TO FORGIVE THEM...NO FATWA..NOBODY WILL BE KILLED..

SO ALLAH TAKES A SECOND PLACE THE PROPHETS AND THE CALIPHS TAKE THE FIRST PLACE...THAT IS ISLAM..

i suggest Hilmi since there is so many fatwas being dished out..dish out one more to Guan Eng...and tell him to shut-up using the Caliph's name for he is greater than Allah..

maybe..guan Eng should quote Najib, Mataiktir, ...P Ramlee...Rafidah Aziz...Samy..or Ling Ling shiok...
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