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Contesting Malayness PDF Print
Thursday, 17 January 2008 13:08

Michael Chick

It's been interesting to read such free-flowing comments on an all "Malaysian" free for all.

{mosgoogle right}

While we are on the subject, how many of you have read the book entitled Contesting Malayness" ? 

Written by a Professor of National University of Singapore.  Cost S$32 (about).  It reflects the Anthropologists' views that there is no such race as the "Malays" to begin with.
 
If we follow the original migration of the Southern Chinese of 6,000 yrs ago, they moved into Taiwan, (now the Alisan), then into the Phillipines (now the Aeta) and moved into Borneo (4,500 yrs ago) (Dayak).

They also split into Sulawesi and progressed into Jawa, and Sumatera.  The final migration was to the Malayan Peninsular 3,000 yrs ago.  A sub-group from Borneo also moved to Champa in Cambodia at 4,500 yrs ago.

Interestingly, the Champa deviant group moved back to present day Kelantan.  There are also traces of the Dong Song and HoaBinh migration from Vietnam and Cambodia.  To confuse the issue, there was also the Southern Thai migration, from what we know as Pattani today.  (See also "Early Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago and the Malay Peninsular".)

Of course, we also have the Minangkabau(s) who come from the descendants of Alexander the Great and a West Indian Princess. (Sejarah Melayu page 1-3.)

So the million Dollar Question:  Is there really a race called the "Malays"?  All anthropologists DO NOT SEEM TO THINK SO.

Neither do the "Malays" who live on the West Coast of Johor.  They'd rather be called Javanese.  What about the west coast Kedah inhabitants who prefer to be known as "Achenese"?  Or the Ibans who simply want to be known as IBANS.  Try calling a Kelabit a "Malay" and see what response you get.  You'll be so glad that their Head-Hunting days are over.

The definition of "Malay" is therefore simply a collection of peoples who speak a similar type language.  With what is meant by a similar type language does not mean that the words are similar.

Linguists call this the "Lego-type" language, where words are added on to the root word to make meaning and give tenses and such. Somehow, the Indonesians disagree with this classification.  They refuse to be called Malay. 

Anyhow you may define it.  Watch "Malays in Africa" - a Museum Negara produced DVD.  Also, the "Champa Malays" by the same.

With this classification, they MUST also include the Phillipinos, the Papua New Guineans, the Australian Aboriginies, as well as the Polynesian Aboriginies.  These are of the Australo Melanesians who migrated out of Africa 60,000 yrs ago.

Getting interesting?  Read on.

"Malay" should also include the Taiwanese singer "Ah Mei" who is Alisan, as her tribe are the ancestors of the "Malays".  And finally, you will need to define the Southern Chinese (Funan Province) as Malay also, since they are from the same stock 6,000 yrs ago.

Try calling the Bugis a "Malay". 

Interestingly, the Bugis, who predominantly live on Sulawesi are not even Indonesians.  Neither do they fall into the same group as the migrating Southern Chinese of 6,000 yrs ago, nor the Australo Melanesian group from Africa.

Ready for this?

The Bugis are the cross-breed between the Chinese and the Arabs. (FYI, a runaway Ming Dynasty official whom Cheng Ho was sent to hunt down.)  Interestingly, the Bugis were career Pirates in the Johor-Riau Island areas. 

Now the nephew of Daeng Kemboja was appointed the First Sultan of Selangor.  That makes the entire Selangor Sultanate part Arab, part Chinese!

Try talking to the Bugis Museum curator near Kukup in Johor.  Kukup is located near the most south-western tip of Johor.  (Due south of Pontian Kechil.)

Let's not even get into the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekiu, and Hang Lekir, who shared the same family last name as the other super famous "Hang" family member, Hang Li Poh.  And who was she? 

The princess of a Ming Dynasty Emperor who was sent to marry the Sultan of Malacca.  Won't that make the entire Malacca Sultanate downline "Baba"?

Since the older son of the collapsed Malaccan Sultanate got killed in Johor, (the current Sultanate is the downline of the then, Bendahara) the only other son became the Sultan of Perak. 

Do we see any Chinese-ness in Raja Azlan?  Is he the descendant of Hang Li Poh?

Next question.  If the Babas are part Malay, why have they been marginalized by NOT BEING BUMIPUTERA?  Which part of "Malay" are they not? 

Whatever the answer, why then are the Portuguese of Malacca NOT BUMIPUTERA?  Did they not come 100 yrs AFTER the arrival of the first Babas?  Parameswara founded Malacca in 1411. The Portugese came in 1511, and the Dutch in the 1600's.

Strangely, the Babas were in fact once classified Bumiputera, but discovered that they were strangely "declassified" in the 1960s.  WHY?

The Sultan of Kelantan had similar roots to the Pattani Kingdom making him of Thai origin.  And what is this "coffee table book" by the Sultan of Perlis claiming to be the direct descendant of the prophet Muhammed?  Somehow we see Prof Khoo Khay Khim's signature name on the book.  I'll pay good money to own a copy of it myself.  Anyone has a spare?

So, how many of you have met with orang Asli(s)?  The more northern you go, the more African they look. 

Why are they called Negrito(s)?  It is a Spanish word, from which directly translates "mini Negros". 

The more southern you go, the more "Indonesian" they look.  And the ones who live at Cameron Highlands kinda look 50-50. 

You can see the Batek at Taman Negara, who really looks like Eddie Murphy to a certain degree.  Or the Negritos who live at the Thai border near Temenggor Lake (north Perak).  The Mah Meri
in Carrie Island looks almost like the Jakuns in Endau Rompin.  Half African, half Indonesian.

By definition, (this is super eye-opening) there was a Hindu Malay Empire in Kedah. 

Yes, I said it right.  The Malays were Hindu. 

It was, by the old name Langkasuka.  Today known as Lembah Bujang.  This Hindu Malay Empire was 2,000 yrs old, pre-dating Borrobudor AND Angkor Watt, who came about around 500-600 yrs later.  Lembah Bujang was THE mighty trading empire, and its biggest influence was by the Indians who were here to help start it.

By definition, this should make the Indians BUMIPUTERAS too since they were here 2,000 yrs ago! 

Why are they marginalized ?

So, in a nutshell, the "Malays" (anthropologists will disagree with this "race" definition) are TRULY ASIA!!! (Main continent and West Asia included)

Here are some comments from Michael in answer to some Malays who have attacked him for penning this commentary.

Greetings.  This is Michael Chick.  Unlike others who hide behind "anonymous synonyms" I came clear with my real name.  The post which I put up was not a figment of my imagination but the end result of 3 years extensive research.  As such, the facts presented are clear-cut, straightforward and unassuming.  Perhaps you would all like to chat with any anthropologist at UM before sending-off any flaming sparks in my direction again.  These Professors should be as Malaysian as any of you.

The subject matter is fact-based.  To Bayi, "Contesting Malayness" is available at Kinokuniya at Takashimaya 4th floor, Orchard road. At a cost of S$32.  It is also available at National University of Singapore.  Why?  'Coz it's their textbook.  Let me repeat -"Contesting Malayness" is an NUS textbook, published by NUS Press, written by Professor Tony Milner.

To Achmad Sudarsono, calling the Malays a "race" is akin to calling the Hokkiens or the Javanese a "race". 

Please do not confuse the term "orang" with "Bangsa". 

What do I mean?  The term 'orang' is used by Malays to describe Orang Bugis, Orang Acheh, Orang Laut, Orang India, Orang Melayu.  And here is where the confusion was.  Orang Melayu merely refers to the residents of Kampung Melayu near Jambi, near Palembang. 

Please use Google Earth to find its exact location.

Unless you can say that all "Orang Melayu" are descendants of that village, you simply cannot be called Orang Melayu. 

In fact the name "Malay" has been traced to Lembah Bujang, where the Indian traders used to call the locals "Malai" (in Tamil) to describe the locals.  The locals were animistic pagans at that time, and readily adopted Hindu practices and Indian customs.  

" Raja " and " Sultan " are Indian titles. 

The adat bersanding with the pelamin are of Indian origin.  Even the "gifts-bearing" walk by the groom has its Indian roots.  Please attend an Indian Wedding before flaming me again.  Or have a chat with Prof Nik Hassan who is in charge of the Lembah Bujang archaeological excavations.

Malaya, was therefore a derivative from Himalaya. 

"Sejarah Melayu" therefore was describing the Kampong Melayu origins.  But here is where, from pages 1-3, it will tell you that Kampong Melayu are descendants of Iskandar Zulkarnain (Alexander the Great) through the bloodline of a West Indian Princess.  This came from Sejarah Melayu.  This book is cheap. 

You can buy it at the University Malaya Bookstore for a mere RM35.  It is published by MBRAS (Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society).  Its patron member is Tun Hanif (ex-IGP).

Please speak with Datuk Prof Zuraina Majid, who excavated "Perak Man".  She will tell you that Perak Man is a descendant of the Australo-Melanesian stock.  African National Museum of the Phillipines will verify that they came from Taiwan.  And National University of Indonesia will confirm that they came from the Phillipines.

Nik Aziz (PAS leader from Kelantan) will tell you that his grandfather came from Champa.  To all Kelantanese, please explain the newly changed name of a Kampong near Bachok (close to the Pengkalan Chepa airport) to "Kampung Champa" to our friends here.

Please also visit Museum Negara to see the exhibits on the "Dong Song" brass drums and Gua Cha in Kelantan near Gua Musang to see the Hoabinhian Caves.  Dong Song and Hoabinh are in Indochina.  And therefore, the locals are descendants from that region. 

The entire Northern States also have their roots from the Pattani Kingdom; which today we call Tahiland. 

In fact, please visit the Kelantan WWII museum to see the article on how Perlis, Kedah, Kelantan and Terengganu was part of Thailand from 1943-1945.  Then walk over to the Kelantan State Museum to see the exhibit on Gua Cha to read their explanations of the Hoabinhian Cultures of Early Kelantan settlers.

Malaysian Archaeologists call the early settlers Proto Malay.  And the current settlers Deutero Malay.  The scientific term is actually, Australo Melanesian (African) and Austranesian (Chinese, or Mongoloid).  This is a DNA and bone structure classification.  Even the term Negrito transalates from Spanish to mean "mini Negro".

I hope that I've made myself comprehensible enough.  Feel free to ask any further questions to help clear the air. 

The " Malays " are NOT a race.  I'm so sorry that you are only hearing this now.  The rest of the Academic World has known it for years.


By: Michael Chick on May 30th, 2007 At 2:44 am
To address Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekir, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekir and Hang Li Poh.  They were all related by the family name of "Hang".

Please visit their graves in Malacca.  Their graves are clear-cut Hindu. 

This was during the "Great Malacca Empire" when Parameswara was supposed to have converted to Islam.  Why are the graves of the "Legendary Defenders of the States" Hindu? 

They do not have the spiral headstones or the Batu Acheh type headstones - instead, they are solid concrete blocks with triangular holes for incense and oil-lamp burning.

Hang Tuah's grave (Kampong Keling) is another "conspiracy". 

Please read the inscriptions on the side:  "they found a large stone marking a grave, and therefore it must be Hang Tuah...". 

This grave was merely designed to be a tourist destination. 

Note that there are no names engraved anywhere.  Just a big non-descript stone marking that a human body lies underneath it. 

Lastly, why is a Muslim buried in Kampong Keling - ' Keling ' meaning Indian ?

The subsequent question is why is Hang Tuah removed from current school history textbooks?

One of two suggestions comes to mind.  He was pure fiction (please read Hikayat Hang Tuah before flaming me again), or as the Bugis Museum Curator in Johor will insist, that Hang Tuah was Chinese. So were the rest of his "blood brothers".  They were all Chinese; and related to Hang Li Poh.

Let me pose a simple question to you: 

Why is it, that when you visit Malacca to see the great historical Malaysian City/State, you see the Portugese "A Famosa" gateway, or the Red Dutch buildings like Christchurch, or even St. Paul's Church on St. Paul's Hill?  Where is the evidence of "The Great Malaccan Empire"?

Let me help you with that answer.  Published by Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka in a publication called "Melayu Journal" in 2005 - "...we had to look for an icon by which the Malays would be proud of..."  Since Majapahit, Acheh, Lembah Bujang (Langkasuka) were either Hindu, on Indonesian soil, or both, Malacca was the only location left. 

The great Parameswara is, by the way buried on Fort Canning Hill downtown Singapore, for those of you who want to visit it.  They call it the "Keramat" and it's immediately behind the National Musuem of Singapore.

Please enlighten me by showing me ONE single piece of evidence of "The Great Malaccan Empire". 

Even Dewan Bahasa couldn't.  Perhaps any one of you could.  

Evidence, and not mere gut-feeling please.

Comments (46)Add Comment
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written by temenggong, January 17, 2008 13:28:11
From Yunnan to Taiwan, to Philippines, to Borneo, back to Cambodia Champa, then to Kelantan, mixed with Pattanis, Semang, Jakun, Javanese, Negritos, Arabs, Indians and Chinese again.

In short, a chinese mixed sub-race. Why not just say chinese?
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written by rayden chan, January 17, 2008 13:41:40
So..Malay doesnt exist?
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written by Agahdemo, January 17, 2008 13:46:46
I have waited for an article like this for a long long time. You make may day. Thank you and thank you once again. So may we now call ourselves "Malaysian" instead of the politically motivated " Melayu".
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written by Century Patriot, January 17, 2008 13:54:54
How is it that the Temiar, a sub group of the Negritos,do have some words similar to the chinese? I used to wonder when I first met them in the deep jungle in the early 60th. Unfortunately I can't remember those words.

Hope to get an enlightenment.
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written by Counterpointer, January 17, 2008 13:55:07
Good Read.

But this won't make any sense, but anger, probably, for many Malays indoctrinated from the bastardised history books.
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written by liquidvol, January 17, 2008 13:56:43
I am copying this article and mail-blasting it to as many people I know. Naturally I guess the next thing to understand is that we all belong to the "human" race. But I guess this will work for now. One step at a time they say...
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written by Jhimsi, January 17, 2008 14:16:36
Great article.

I hope many can see the falsehood of segregating us Malaysians into race and religion. We are all one big family of human beings.

May I suggest a new Political Party - BARISAN MALAYSIA to challenge the BN nincompoops.
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written by sydput, January 17, 2008 14:22:46
The assumption that here is no such thing as a malacca empire is crrect. In fact, there is no such thing as any malay empire. Malay civilisation are not built on search and destroy, but based on neighbourliness. When one neighbour is in trouble, the next village will gtong-royong to protect their community from certain threats.
Malacca was not built by Parameswara, but was built by Cheng Ho, who turned it into a major port, with laws and protection accorded by imperial china.
The malay, under the sultan, merely collected taxes on ships in ports and businesses and tolls using the river(just like today in the highways)
There is no malay currency, so those who work for local sultan were slaves. The more eilites(Datuks and warlord) were given a certain area in which they can collect their own revenues in the form of taxes.
There is such a thing as a maly race, but ther is no such thing as a malay empire.
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written by fairnessforall, January 17, 2008 14:36:11
Very Interesting article and speaks loads of truth which the goverment has been trying to hide from the people and even changing history in history books. These days children dont know who parameswara is as he has been totally obliterated from the history books.

Anyone who if the book "Contesting Malayness" can be bought in Malaysia or has it been banned because it tells the truth?
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written by tom73my, January 17, 2008 14:39:23
It's definitely a conspiracy theory. Although the Malays have a Hindu/Buddism/Chinese past, they refuse to associate themselves with anything Hindu/Buddism/Chinese. Look at the school history textbooks and you will know that there is an intetntion to downplay any historical significance before the Malacca sultanate, when and where Islam started to flourish here. It seems like Malaysia was born during 1400s. Before that there was a little bit of Srivijaya, a bit of Lankasuka what not. That cannot be. That can only be the work of a few very smart so called Malays intended to enrich themself in terms or power and wealth, thus building up a clan of their own. It's like gangsterism and mafia. They started small, then got bigger and bigger and before anybody realising, they have created a race, now called Malay. It was, and still is all about power, money and self interest.
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written by michael chick, January 17, 2008 14:39:40
MC: To address Century Patriot, you said..
"...How is it that the Temiar, a sub group of the Negritos,do have some words similar to the chinese? I used to wonder when I first met them in the deep jungle in the early 60th..."
MC: The adoption of "foreign" words do not make one of that "race". Far from it. Malaysians who speak the Germanic language called English are not one bit British. The Temiar Tribe today resides at the Perak-Kelantan Border (enter dirt-track via Kuala Kangsar) Previously, they used to live near the Coastal Regions of both Taiping (Kuala Selinsing) and Kuala Terengganu (Gua Bewah and Gua Berhala). Subsequent migration of the Indonesians (proto malay) drove them deep into the Jungles where they still reside today. The Australo Melanesians (Negrito stock) arrived in Malaya circa 60,000years ago. Parameswara arrived merely 600years ago. Catch a dialogue with Collin Charles in his "First on the Land, Last in the Plan" talks regularly organized by the Centre for Orang Asli Concerns.

MC: BTW, on the linguistic issue, The Bahasa Malaysia/ Bahasa Melayu is an amalgamation of foreign words. 15% of Bahasa Melayu consists of Portuguese words (bola, almari, bomba, etc), about the same percentage with Dutch. The rest of Bahasa Melayu consists of Sanskrit, Arab, Persian, Tamil, Hindi and so on so forth. Strip all these words away, and you are left with only 3 words in the original "melayu" language. "Saya", "Padi" and "Babi". Re-read any proponent of the "malay" definitions based on linguistic definitions now also fall flat. Let me know if anyone out there gives you "shit". Send the rebuttal over and I'll be more than happy to address it appropriately with conclusive proof. As I always said, "Speak not with unbridled emotion, but speak the truth with evidence".

For your edification, go read my comments on the origins of the Word "Allah" and why the insistence that the Christian Community should NOT be using it in ANY of its Publications. It's time we all learnt what's truly going on.
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written by Tornado, January 17, 2008 14:52:48
Melayu hanya merujuk kepada tempat menetap sahaja iaitu kampung melayu jambi, tiada kaitan dengan bangsa.

Cth,
Pertanyaan : Awak orang mana?
Jawapan : Saya orang Melayu (dari kampung melayu), cina (berasal dari tanah besar china), india (berasal dari benua kecil India), Arab (berasal dari semenanjung Arab), kelantan (berasal dari kelantan).

Bangsa pula merujuk kepada rumpun & susur-galur keturunan yang berkongsi bentuk fizikal dan paras yang hampir serupa. Adat & budaya tidak boleh diguna-pakai sebagai petunjuk mutlak sesebuah bangsa kerana ianya berevolusi & berasimilasi. Proses evolusi & asimilasi berlaku apabila pengamal adat & budaya cuba untuk memahani dan mengadaptasi adat & budaya asal mereka dengan keadaan persekitaran & senario semasa.

Apapun, bagi masyarakat luar terutama dari Barat, semua warganegara Malaysia adalah Bangsa Malaysia kerana kita akan mengaku "i am Malaysian" jika ditanya (dalam Bahasa Inggeris)..
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written by rayfire, January 17, 2008 14:54:26
smilies/shocked.gif
Wow, what a revelation!
Hope it is taken with a positive note and not threated as a THREAT to their status, as it is given with historical evidence.
Unless of course there is some historical facts than can be cited to contradict this author.
Anyway, each one of us have migrated from one region or the other and now we are within a nation.
From what I see, this is more so a reason to unitedly call ourselves Malaysians rather than based on what Orang we are!
Agreed? smilies/grin.gif
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written by kksam, January 17, 2008 15:06:57
one more thing ah, the Puteri Hang Li poh oh never exist in china 5000 years old history, because there's no princess in the name of Hang Li Poh or any marriage between any china princess with anyone from Melaka, so the story about Hang Li Poh marriage oh is syok sendiri punya.
Also, Hang Tuah and the gang are all chinese who came after Parameswara asked for protection from China, and where the hell got malay surname Hang.
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written by kksam, January 17, 2008 15:08:57
However, the BN or specifically UMNO don't want to reveal the facts to the people. i think they scared that people will question the stupid thing on special rights. so they can stay in power forever.
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written by Tompios, January 17, 2008 15:25:02
This is good article. Where is the monumen of Malacca empire? Oh my God! Amazing! I think Malacca is just a big kampong or village in the seashore. But then,Malay is not a nation? It is just name of the local people (Malai) or in Dusunic rythm "singkulai malai kutut noputut bintorung amai"? Hmm!!! all of Malay descendants or the kings in Malaysia are also descendant of mix-blooded over the world!! Pui!! no wonder this Malay people as they called themselves always claiming other's cultures. The lost tribes. Hopefully, this people is not descendants of the ten lost tribes of Jews nation.
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written by renoir, January 17, 2008 15:29:01
Dear all: if we dissect every community we shall find that they're always from somewhere else, with perhaps the exception of some African tribes. So, contrary to the politicians, race - which ultimately is an artificial, often politically-motivated construct, isn't as important as culture. And from empirical evidence, Malay culture is a mix of many other cultures. We can also say that Malay culture is what the community practices now - culture being a fluid concept. Now I've often insisted that all Malaysians should have at the core Malay culture. The fact that this culture is already a mix of many cultures should make that proposal acceptable to all.

Anglo-Saxons are more than people from old Germany - many have a mixture of celtic and viking blood, etc. But they created for themselves their unique identity and develop certain cultural traits that, genuine or not, many people still attribute to them. A cultural identity is useful not merely for national unity - I don't prize that kind of stuff anyway - but because it gives meaning to all of us as we struggle together for a brighter future.

LChuah
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written by Raja Gasper, January 17, 2008 16:25:59
Dear Michael Chick,your comment about Bahasa Melayu is really laughable at all time.It is a joke but
the contents are most true beyond doubt and cannot be contested by the DBP (Dewan Bahasa & Pustaka).

The Defination(s) of who is the Malay(s) are very loose and the language of Malay(s) are indeed a
mixture of all major languague(s)come into one language.Sooner the Malay(s) language will discontinued
the usage of Roman(s) A,B because afraid of Christianization(s) and will revert back to the old style of
using the Jawi or Arabic Malay(s) language.

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written by michael chick, January 17, 2008 16:50:27
Thanks Raja Gasper, but this article was really written to inform and to educate. Throghout my travels around this country, I've often spoken at length with the constituional malay, and was surprised to find out that most were most eager to claim origin from elswhere. And would rather be addressed that way. This contradicted the very notion of "malay" as perpetuated by the Govt. Thus began my 3 year reearch on this subject smilies/smiley.gif

What you all are reading is the earlier version. The newer one disects Hang Li Poh and so on. I just sent a copy of the 9page latest version to Labisman. Ask him to send you a copy. smilies/smiley.gif
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written by advocatusdiaboli, January 17, 2008 17:01:53
Michael Chick, how do we (or rather me) get in touch with you?
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written by hiro, January 17, 2008 17:25:51
This is the reason why Malaysia needs freedom of expression. The nation has falsely been built on a stack of cards that cannot withstand closer scrutiny for truth, all because of a rigid power structure that takes no prisoners.

We need to decouple political power from race. Then, and only then, we can begin the journey of truly discovering ourselves and how much we are actually linked with each other. Instead of our separateness, we can then truly focus on our togetherness. And that will make Malaysia unbeatable.
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written by Harbinger, January 17, 2008 17:54:34
Hahahaha! It was pure pleasure reading it again and again! Next we'll may just discover that we're related to some UMNO goons !! Yeeeugh !! Just thinking about makes me want to puke !!
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written by michael chick, January 17, 2008 18:07:16
For the record: the following section WAS NOT part of my responses:

"...Interestingly - the word " melayu " you take the word ' me ' away - it reads ' layu ' which means ' fade away ' - when you add ' me ' to ' layu ' it meansss sudah melayu ............ you know what the meaning is .... lahhh.
Sudah kah engkau melayu ?
Also, please consult Prof Khoo Khay Khim before flaming me again;
Thank you.
Maxyn Forest"

MC: Although funny to some, I believe it has been "overcopied" from another person's comment. I repeat, the above highlighted text is NOT MINE.
Am requesting the moderator to remove it, as it is not in-line with the rest of my Articles/ responses. Thank You.

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written by duncan, January 17, 2008 18:22:34
Hang Li Poh...? didnt a Minister visit China a few years back and checked the Chinese Royalty records and found that her name does not exist ...it was deduced that she was some concubine... and thats more probable than not... The Malays seem to have forgotten the Batu Bersurat...and whence it came from...
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written by michael chick, January 17, 2008 18:55:29
MC: In addressing the question by Tompios regarding:
"...Hopefully, this people is not descendants of the ten lost tribes of Jews nation..."
MC: The answer is actually a "yes" AND a "no". As I described the Truly Asia people's of Malaysia, you would also notice the people with the Name Syed, and Sheikh. They claim to be descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. If they insist so, then they would have Jewish Blood in them, whether they like it or not. You see, the Prophet himself is a descendant of Abraham (already making him of Jewish descent) and then, 3 out of his 13 wives was described as Jewish. And the last one (I believe) was the one who poisoned him to death. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'd be more than happy to publish their names if requested, or any Muslim who's read the Koran can do the same for me.

And to "advocatusdiaboli", ***** on my name. It's in blue. Then shoot me an e-mail. And I'll send you the latest version which is 9pages long.

And to Dragonheart, with your pointer that,
"... The Malaysia constitution have spelled out in clear express words what and who are the Malays... This is more legal than the book wrote by Professor of National University of Singapore..."
MC: While I fully agree with you on this in terms of legality, I'm merely highlighting how it, in itself is contradictory to the Academic definitions of "race" as defined in the Oxford, Brittanica, Pelanduk, Longman and so on so forth. Why don't you propose how the term "race" should be rewritten in dictionaries and have them make the appropriate amendments?
Should they accept your (or the Malaysian definition) then it will be amended as you suggest. However, for the time being, I'll go by the dictionaries' and the encyclopedias' definitions.

MC: You don't need a Minister to do that. Just do a search for any MING DYNASTY Emperor (15th Century). All their last names begin with Tzu (pronounced Choo). Hang and Tzu thus have NO similarities. Hang Li Poh is no princess. Who she is is rather unimportant. ome have suggested concubine, handmaiden, prostitute, servant, and so on, but the reality is that she is NOT a Ming Princess.

MC: Batu Bersurat Terengganu (I'm assuming that you are refering to this Batu) is of Cham origin. It is written using the Jawi alphabet, and is identical to the other such stones found in Champa, Vietnam. Many think that Cheng Ho was the one who brought Islam into that region before it was filtered into Kelanatan & Terengganu 200years BEFORE Malacca. Thus, The Malaccan Sultanate were NOT the first Muslims.

Someone please post the names of the 7 Sultans of Malacca. Their names mostly begin with Sri, or Rama, or Jaya and such. Many Scholars insist that these are NOT Muslim names. I am sure however, that the son of Parameswara had to convert so that he could marry the Princess of Pasai. As he did not know what Islam was all about and was "intrigued" by it. So says Tungku Halim in his book. I however disagree with him on the issue that Parameswara went to China with Cheng Ho. Reason? Cheng Ho came in 1403 and 1433. Parameswara only started Malacca in 1411. And he died at 1423. There's no way Parameswara could have taken an MRT to meet Cheng Ho's Boat. Thus invalidating the "romantic" story of how Parameswara went to China, and saw the beautiful Princess in Forbidden City's Palace Gardens, fell in love with her, and was given/ awarded by the Ming Emperor. MYTH BUSTED!!!
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written by rayden chan, January 17, 2008 19:55:59
MC: "Cheng Ho came in 1403 and 1433. Parameswara only started Malacca in 1411. And he died at 1423. There's no way Parameswara could have taken an MRT to meet Cheng Ho's Boat. Thus invalidating the "romantic" story of how Parameswara went to China, and saw the beautiful Princess in Forbidden City's Palace Gardens, fell in love with her, and was given/ awarded by the Ming Emperor. MYTH BUSTED!!!"

wow wow... calm down calm down.. HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY MAN ..haha..
After all, Admiral Cheng Ho could have faken the place to be China. smilies/grin.gif
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written by michael chick, January 17, 2008 20:08:28
Mr Rayden Chan, I agree, but I am merely going by official records, and the corresponding records of the various countries he visited in relation to our "supossed" Malaccan Timeline of Malacca here. They do correspond.
There is universal agreement on the proof of Admiral Cheng Ho's travels till east Africa. And enough to implicate that the moron called Menzes' 1421 was a lie. If you'd watch the second hour of the Documentary by the Discovery Channel, you'd know. Also watch "Junk History" produced by the Australian Broadcast Company for a total deconstruction of Menzes' theory AND his own admittance that he was WRONG at the end of this Documentary is suffice. His new profound "theory" is that Kublai Khan discovered America. Like I said, What a Moron!!! NUS professors are having a field day with this smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Shimshon, January 17, 2008 20:11:52

http://www.asiasentinel.com/in...Itemid=34

Elite Malays and Mixed Marriage

Darah Kacukan

27 July 2007

Malaysia’s Malay leaders say ‘do as I say, not do as I do’ when it comes to marriage
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written by jack little, January 17, 2008 22:32:09
HAHAHA... I knew a lot of Malay who was so proud of the so called Hang Tuah. And the famous saying by him was 'takkan Melayu hilang dari muka bumi'. So it's just fiction. Damn! You should have seen those Malay saying it that time with an emotional and patriotic face expression. Yuck!!!! smilies/tongue.gif
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written by Dogboy, January 17, 2008 22:33:52
All these "Malayness", Malay Priviledges, Malay special rights are all created by UMNO over the past 50 years to protect their own priviledges and to marginalise the other races for their benefit.

The fact that the Chinese of MCA and Indians of MIC play second/ third/ fourth fiddle to the Malays in UMNO is a testament to the lack of balls by the people professing to represent the Chinese and Indians. They too are being 'taken care of' by UMNO as long as they do not encroach and question the priviledges that the Malays enjoy
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written by Eddy, January 17, 2008 22:55:42
wow, very interesting, you make my day.
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written by burn22, January 17, 2008 23:57:42
pity, it can't be written/advertize in the local mainstream media...
and for sure, there will be lots of denial syndrome among those cronies...
till now, they never realize, we are just a humanbeing!
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written by burn22, January 18, 2008 02:16:10
corrections...
pity, it can't be publicize in the local mainstream media...
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written by monstercat, January 18, 2008 05:14:17
written by sydput, January 17, 2008 | 14:15:32

Based on above assumption, and scientific theory that the first human was from africa, we are all africans.
Malay is a race as much as english, which originates from present day germany, is considered a race. But if you ask an african born in england, he will say that he is english.
Baba, nyonyas and Portuguese descent should be considered bumiputras.
The first chinese that came with Cheng Ho are from the imperial palace and cannot be compared to those who migrated to Malaya early this century to escape hardship in China who were mostly from peasant stock with no manners and bad attitude.
-----------------------------------------------------

Are you sure the english is a race??? Do you mean the Normans, Saxons hmmmm, what else, Vikings????
Anthropologically, Malays is not a race. Of course the person of African ancestry born in England would call himself English!!! You are losing the plot BIG TIME! And yes the peasant stock Chinese who immigrated to Malaya are of inferior quality and stock compared to your Malay stock!! That's what you are driving at - to prove that your stock is better and more special than other stocks. If you cannot drill the better-stock-thinking into your fellow Malays' heads, you are so afraid that the Malay stock will end up as peasant-stock as the Chinese peasant-stock. That's why the UMNO machines had previously use the Hangs to glorify your Malay stock BUT THEY TURN OUR TO BE OF CHINESE STOCK!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha.... So who would be your next Malay hero to champion the greatness of Malay stock???

If you hadn't sounded so arrogant about the present Chinese lousy chicken stock, I wouldn't have responded to you in such manner! You deserve what you started.
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written by Shimshon, January 18, 2008 05:59:11
The socalled "Malays" consider the socalled "Malay Civilization" - so high above that of the others ie the Chinese and Indian civilizations ............. and that the "Bangsa Asings, Kaum Pendatang, Kaum Penumpangs" came here to "tumpang"(live at the welfare/benevolence of) the "Malays" ----
when it's the other way around!! - The Malays are the Kaum Penumpangs.

This was a "pirate infested/cultured" region; and even today we see the pirates (are mostly Muslims) - and are "locals" -- not the Chinese or Indians.

It was the Indians who "advanced" the folks of this region (at first, before the Chinese did their contributions), big time.

Folks here didn't even have handwritings in the true sense. -- It was the Indians who "literate-d" them. The Jawa/Javanese characters(alphabets) are Indian/Indian-based. So too are the Thai, Cambodian, Burmese, etc -- very much Indian characters.

(Religion-wise) One article I read said that this region was more into Buddhism, followed by Hinduism; both from India.

"Indonesia" generally is interpreted, "Indian Islands/Archipelago"(Kepulauan India) - because of the strong Indian-infested culture. (Of course, "Indonesia" term has a couple of other meanings).

At one time - the Indian culture was much respected & acknowledged in this region.

But after the coming of Islam & the Arabs - the Indians were looked down upon as lowclass - by the "Malays" - one of the most inferior races in the world (civilization wise).
(If you recall in the 1980s during the Islamization process in Malaysia, many Malay films of the 1950-60s were banned from TV broadcast, esp. because of its "nonIslamic"(ie "Hindu") content. Only after Astro(satellite TV) came in the late 1990s and started broadcasting most of them, then later only some are allowed on our free-TV too)

Terms like "Malai", "Malai Ur"(for the land/peninsula and the people living here), "Bumi", "Putera", "Perdana Menteri", "Ke-RAJA-an" - etc etc -- are all Indian "uplifting/advancing of" the socalled "Malays".

Then we have names like "Mahathir" -- which is not just Indian - but absolutely Hinduish(ie religious) name.

But the former PM Mahathir -(whose father was a Malayali Indian-Muslim, from India) - who has an Indian & Hindu name -- acted more Malay & Islamic than the "usual/general" Malay-Muslims!
(But then again, some Indian Muslims, going back to the days of Malacca Sultanate, do act more "melayu" than the (actual) Melayus)

Whatever!

But we can see that it's ISLAM-THE-RELIGION that causes/instigates this "Malay Chauvinism/Superiority Complex", the "Ketuanan Melayu" thingy (when most are Indons), ......
the "closed door policy" - like the Bumi-nonBumi (ie native/indigenoues-non-native) race factor, "Bangsa Asing"(outsiders),...
the "3rd Class Citizens"(ie islam's dhimmi(slave class) policy on nonMuslims)
-- etc.

The "melayu" side of the socalled "Malays" - are quite accomodating! (considering all of us are somewhat racists).

We know that all Muslims are not terrorists - but all terrorists are Muslims. And we know too - Muslims are always the aggressors - but they always play victim. -

In Malaysia too, the socalled Malays play victim, so that the Dasar Ekonomi Baru(NEP), the Ketuanan Melayu, the institutionalised racism of Malaysia - will continue forever ---
AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER RACES - who're denied their basic human rights and citizenship rights.
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written by michael chick, January 18, 2008 11:06:25
The socalled "Malays" consider the socalled "Malay Civilization" - so high above that of the others ie the Chinese and Indian civilizations
MC: Be careful, ,,, this has its roots during the Hindu period as a form of simplification of the “Caste System”

.... and that the "Bangsa Asings, Kaum Pendatang, Kaum Penumpangs" came here to "tumpang"(live at the welfare/benevolence of) the "Malays" ----
when it's the other way around!! - The Malays are the Kaum Penumpangs.
MC: To be fair here, I would re-state this as “The Malays are JUST AS Kaum Penumpangs AS THE REST.” Don’t forget that the Orang Asli arrived 60,000years ago, while Parameswara arrived only 600years ago.

This was a "pirate infested/cultured" region; and even today we see the pirates (are mostly Muslims) - and are "locals" -- not the Chinese or Indians.
MC: Again an unfair statement. I would have gladly agreed with you if you stated that the pirates are “Austronesians” (malay). Explore ANY text and you will see that it has been “craftily” re-labeled as the following statement, “The “malays” are the greatest sea-faring peoples in the World”. To a certain degree, they are correct. However, they also learnt this from the Arab Pirates, who plundered all the way till Peking/Beijing and intermarried the Mongolians, whom we know as the Bugis today.

It was the Indians who "advanced" the folks of this region (at first, before the Chinese did their contributions), big time.
MC: Yes, circa 2,000yrs ago. Especially by the Gujerati traders. Evidence in Lembah Bujang. However, the Chinese traders were also know to trade in Birds’ Nest at Niah Cave from as early as 3,000yrs ago. Hence, a full 1,000years before the Gujeratis. However, you are right. All they did was trade. Not educate nor influence.

Folks here didn't even have handwritings in the true sense. -- It was the Indians who "literate-d" them. The Jawa/Javanese characters(alphabets) are Indian/Indian-based.
MC: The “Kawi” script is relatively different from the “Jawi” script. It is more Sanskrit-like in form. You can compare them side by side at an archaeological site near PD. It’s called Pengkalan Kempas. Look for the stone with the hole in it.

So too are the Thai, Cambodian, Burmese, etc -- very much Indian characters.
MC: OK, if you mean Sanskrit. (am only stressing the difference coz the modern Indian Script, is a derivative of Sanskrit.)

(Religion-wise) One article I read said that this region was more into Buddhism, followed by Hinduism; both from India.
MC: There was 15 centuries of Hinduism in the South-East Asian Region. I was giving a talk at the Museum Negara about 2 months ago. Most people nearly “fell-off-their-chairs ”when I discussed this topic at length J


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written by michael chick, January 18, 2008 11:07:50
"Indonesia" generally is interpreted, "Indian Islands/Archipelago"(Kepulauan India) - because of the strong Indian-infested culture. (Of course, "Indonesia" term has a couple of other meanings).
MC: The word ”Infested” conjures “negativity”. I prefer the word “influenced” or dominant. It’s more “gentle”

At one time - the Indian culture was much respected & acknowledged in this region.
MC: Very prominently seen in Bali. It was unfortunate that the terrorists attacked it.

Terms like "Malai", "Malai Ur"(for the land/peninsula and the people living here), "Bumi", "Putera", "Perdana Menteri", "Ke-RAJA-an" - etc etc -- are all Indian "uplifting/advancing of" the so called "Malays".
MC: Not to forget Sultan and (Maha)Raja

But we can see that it's ISLAM-THE-RELIGION that causes/instigates this "Malay Chauvinism/Superiority Complex", the "Ketuanan Melayu" thingy (when most are Indons),
MC: I see this as an “unfair” statement within the context. Sorry buddy, I just had to say it. Although I fully disgree with the “Ketuanan Melayu” Statement. My question would always be “Who do the “malays” have Lorship Over?”

the "closed door policy" - like the Bumi-nonBumi (ie native/indigenoues-non-native) race factor, "Bangsa Asing"(outsiders),... the "3rd Class Citizens"(ie islam's dhimmi (slave class) policy on non-Muslims)
MC: I can see parallels when the Prophet Muhammad instructed his warriors to “Take their Wealth, Food, and Women” and “You can do whatever you want with their women. You do not have to marry them, but you can take them as your slaves” However, to be fair, ALL cultures were practicing this during that time period.


The "melayu" side of the so called "Malays" - are quite accommodating! (considering all of us are somewhat racists).
MC: The correct term is “Ethnocentric”; believing that one’s “race”/ ethnicity is superior to all others. The Chinese, during the Emperor Days labeled everyone else as “Barbarians”.
The “Known World” term, as used by the Europeans, was referring only to Europe. The rest of the World to them were also refered to as Barbarians.

We know that all Muslims are not terrorists - but all terrorists are Muslims. And we know too - Muslims are always the aggressors - but they always play victim.
MC: That is only your opinion. A “bad person is a bad person” regardless of his religion, or lack of it. Similarly, a good person is a good person regardless of his religion, or the lack of it” And that is why the Law is so important. It is (and should be) “blind” or impartial to the offender. Same rules apply, regardless of religion.

MC: Hence the flaw in the Rukun Negara. The very first one.
“Kepercayaan Kepada Tuhan” This in itself MARGINALIZES the Aeithist, which is 15% of all Asian Population. In Europe, it is 75% Aethists, and/or Agnostic.
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written by mikewang, January 18, 2008 20:23:15
Now you understand why Malays must be Muslims ?
Without religion, one of the key fabrics for a Malay race would not be missing since anthropologically speaking, the history of this race is so short.
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written by temenggong, January 19, 2008 12:11:59
Does anyone know whether the 6,000 year old neolithic Perak Man is a HoaBinh?

"A “bad person is a bad person” regardless of his religion, or lack of it. Similarly, a good person is a good person regardless of his religion, or the lack of it.”

Excellent view.
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written by michael chick, January 20, 2008 11:52:51
Dear Temenggong,
"...Does anyone know whether the 6,000 year old neolithic Perak Man is a HoaBinh? ..."
MC: You have a different date for the Perak Man. Dato Zuraina Majid places the date at 10,500years of age. And I believe the Archaeological Team believes that the Perak Man is Australo Melanesian, meaning African. The Hoabinhians are from IndoChina. The Lenggong site also has artefacts such as flake pebble tools, uni-facial, and bi-facial tools from as old as 200,000years. Read Zuraina's Archaeology in Malaysia (RM200) at MPH/ Museum Negara Bookstore, for a much more in-depth understanding.
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written by kksam, January 20, 2008 14:10:11

There were also evidence and speculation that Hang Li Po is NOT a princess at all. Because there is NO record of marrying any princess to Tanah Melayu or whatever in China's history. Marrying a princess is a big deal. In ancient China, they did it for political purposes. therefore, it is very unlikely it was not mentioned in official record in royal palace.

Researchers believed that Hang Li Po is actually a daughter/sister etc. of an officer from China who come to visit Tanah Melayu on behalf of Emporer. Since the Sultan was interested in his daughter... it will be very rude if he turn down Sultan's request (to marry the daughter).

The officer is believed to be "Li Bu Shang Shu"... so, the girl that married Sultan is the daughter of Li BU Shang Shu and "Li BU Shang Shu = 礼部尚书", is the rank of the officer.....

Li Bu Shang Shu... Li Bu... Li Po.... then it become Hang Li Po... Not a princess from Ming Dynasty at all.
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written by michael chick, January 22, 2008 13:20:01
MC: Thank you KKSam for your insight.

"...Researchers believed that Hang Li Po is actually a daughter/sister etc. of an officer from China who come to visit Tanah Melayu on behalf of Emporer. Since the Sultan was interested in his daughter... it will be very rude if he turn down Sultan's request (to marry the daughter)..."
MC: We have often heard this proposal before, but the only "hitch" in this version is that during those times, it was very unlikely that traders had women on board a ship which were making "in-roads" into the Land of the Barbarians. In Western nautical History, it was even considered "unlucky" for a woman to be on board a ship. Perhaps the male crew just wanted the wives out of their hair while they went foraging for exotic women. Whichever the case, The Johor-Rioh Islands (we have since changed it to Riau) were known to be infested with the Notoriously Fearsome Bugis Pirates. Not forgetting their equally violent Suluk counterparts marauding the Northern waters of Borneo and Mindanao region.

MC: Coming back to the main issue. It was more probable that Hang Li Po was either one of the ships' prostitutes, or a lowly servant. The dangers of being kidnapped, tortured, raped and killed were more than sufficient for any thinking man to keep his real daughters and sisters at home. Hence the problem with the acceptance of the above proposal. Moreover, the handover of Hang Li Poh to the Malaccan Sultan as a "gift" to establish trading ties were considered a relatively "cheap" transaction. As long as he believed that he was getting the "real-deal". Had she been a prostitute, her sexual prowess would have greatly pleased the Sultan. Till today, many complain that Chinese women are frigid in comparison.

MC: On the flipside, The Sultan would have his neighbours think that the Daughter of the Ming Emperor was married to him provided the "fear-factor" for Malacca's neighbours NOT to attack Malacca. Not because they wanted Malacca. Heavens' no, but because Parameswara had already done much damage to the integrity of Malacca when his Bugis Pirates continously plundered trading ships along the entire coast of the Straits of Malacca, thus leaving a rather bitter taste in everyone's mouth. According to Tungku Halim, "Anyone who does not stop and pay tribute to Malacca, we will board their ships and take their cargo. Then we shall sink it to the bottom of the Malacca Straits" During that time, China was much respected, and attacking a Chinese "royalty" would have been disasterous. Hence, the perpetuation of the lie. Either way, Hang Li Poh was definitely NO PRINCESS.

MC: Pasai (Acheh), which was much bigger and the centre of the spread of Islam, was far more prominent. Malacca on the other hand, paled in comparison. Look at the width of the Malaccan River and decide for yourelf. Two "tongkang" boats can barely pass each other under the Jongker Brigde. The Singapore River on the other hand, can comfortably fit 8 "tongkangs" side by side (Cavenaugh Bridge). What are your thoughts?
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