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When Muslims kill Muslims PDF Print
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Friday, 12 September 2008 12:06

On that terribly bloody day, Husayn bin Ali -- grandson of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, by his daughter Fatima -- was brutally killed and decapitated as he was offering his mid-afternoon prayers.

By SALIM MANSUR, The Toronto Sun (26 Aug 2006)

In the marketplace of ideas, the Arab-Muslim world is presently a relatively barren region. Thinking is a perilous venture where dictators, demagogues and mob passion rule.

But when it comes to maiming and killing, the Arab-Muslim world holds a place of prominence. In particular, the ancient land between two rivers, now Iraq, has proven to be greatly fertile as killing fields.

The most famous massacre in Muslim history by armed might of the state took place at Karbala on the banks of the Euphrates in 680. On that terribly bloody day, Husayn bin Ali -- grandson of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, by his daughter Fatima -- was brutally killed and decapitated as he was offering his mid-afternoon prayers.

Husayn's male companions were slaughtered by the army of Yazid, the caliph (Islam's supreme ruler), while women and children in the company of Husayn, including his wife and daughter, were abused and carried as war trophies to the capital of the expanding Arab-Islamic empire in Damascus.

The people of Karbala and surrounding areas passively watched as Muhammad's family and its claim to leadership of Muslims ended in tragedy. But belated grief tore the Arab-Muslim world apart, and its wounds continue to torment in countless ways a people for whom the massacre in Karbala has become the template of their history.

Karbala is a necessary reminder of Muslims being unequalled tormentors and killers of Muslims. Saddam Hussein as the ruling tyrant in Baghdad was only the most recent incarnation of an Arab Macbeth and the Mongol Genghis Khan rolled into one megalomaniacal killer.

It also illuminates the sheer hypocrisy of Arabs and Muslims who selectively and for political purposes rage against the United States and Israel (and not, for instance, against Russia or China despite the brutal suppression of their respective Muslim minorities) for Arab-Muslim casualties in conflicts that have been, almost without exception, precipitated by Arab-Muslim dictators and demagogues.

This past July was grisly, and not just because of the war in Lebanon unleashed by Hezbollah terrorists against Israel.

Iraq's health ministry reported July was the deadliest month for Iraqi casualties since March 2003. The figures provided were 3,438 Iraqis killed -- 1,855 of those as a result of sectarian violence and 1,583 from bombings and shootings carried out by insurgents. Some 3,600 were wounded during the same period.

These figures followed a UN estimate of nearly 6,000 Iraqis killed during May and June. The killings in Iraq have been indiscriminate, and the killers are mostly Arabs, belonging to Sunni or Shiite sects. It is noteworthy that Iraqi Kurds, who suffered Saddam's genocidal violence, are uninvolved in this sectarian savagery.

There has been no organized protest within the Arab-Muslim world or in the West against the daily toll of Iraqi deaths due to this hate-driven insurgency.

Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.

How, then, might we explain why Muslim deaths seem only to matter to Arabs and Muslims -- and to apologists of Arab-Muslim politics in the West -- when they occur as a result of conflicts with the U.S. or Israel?

In witnessing worldwide protests over Lebanese deaths resulting from the recent Hezbollah-Israeli fighting, we might conclude it is politically acceptable when Muslims murder untold numbers of Muslims, but entirely unacceptable when they are collateral casualties of Israeli bombings.

This is the Orwellian reality of much of the Arab-Muslim world today, where Muslim and non-Muslim lives are too often seen as readily and contemptuously disposable -- except when they become handy tools of propaganda against Jews, Hindus and Americans.

Comments (29)Add Comment
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written by DezMalaysia, September 12, 2008 12:20:46
When other people labelled you as terrorist or killer with element of violence, you retaliate (threathen your critics) with the way that they'd alleged you of being so... So what do you expect people to say further ?

How are you going to change other's mindset when you can't even change your very basic attitude ? If you humbly tell & explain to them, they might change their perspective towards you.

Extremists must die rather than innocent peace lovers.
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written by ahmadneil, September 12, 2008 12:42:36
In Turkey there are muslims called the Alevi Muslims.The girls don't wear headscarves and they openly flirt with boys on the streets.They are muslim,but their doctorine is unflinchingly progressive,favoring gay rights,access to abortion,equal opportunity for women and pacifism.They don't believe in heaven or hell,don't perform the hajj pilgrimage and don't face Mecca when they pray.God they like to say,resides in people,not in mountains or stones.
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written by SocratesI, September 12, 2008 12:43:11

The Truth of the matter is, when people desire certain things, be it material possessions, (e.g. oil, gold etc.) or other people, or certain ideals that have been "ingrained" into their system through childhood indoctrination, whether these people are Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists etc. does not matter.

Human beings will use their ingenuity to rationalize all that they do, and find justification(s) for doing what they had wanted to do in the first place ! This is Human nature. It is like telling themselves a "little white lie" everytime they "transgress" their religious doctrine, that is what rationalization does to any contentious issues or deeds that they cannot live with !!

Perhaps the title of this article should be "When Human Beings Do Evil Deeds", as this is what happens, whether we are talking about Muslims or non-Muslims.

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written by temenggong, September 12, 2008 13:03:23
..we might conclude it is politically acceptable when Muslims murder untold numbers of Muslims, but entirely unacceptable when they are collateral casualties of Israeli (or US) bombings.


This is what the world knows and sees each day. This is what is a murderous and hypocritical society.

We do not see this in other religious groups!
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written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 13:09:37
With or without Religions, good people will be doing good things and bad people will be doing bad things. However, it takes religions for good people to do bad things.

This is the sad history of the human beings.
Wake up and be free.

Shalom
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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 13:13:56
Granted that Muslims kill Muslims, but does that justify the kafirs especially the Jews and their US cohorts, mass killing of Muslims such as those carried out in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan and Somalia under the guise of eliminating terrorism (imagined or otherwise)? When the Christians massacred the Jews in most of Europe (the Jews did not agree that Jesus was son of god, neither Jesus was crucified), the Muslims did not try to find excuses to also hammer the Jews, although the Jewish religion also have differences with Islam. In fact, Jews were given protection. Even the Christians were killing fellow Christian because of the differences in the belief about Jesus. Muslims are not bothered to interfere in their affairs.

So what is the relevance in bringing up the issue about Muslims killing Muslims?
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written by non conformist, September 12, 2008 13:19:01
Genesis 16:
10 ¶ And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
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written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 13:21:54
Timberguy and Shamsul Siahaan,
both of you show signs of deep religious hypnosis. ALL the issues you both brought up, have NOTHING to do with GOD. These are human issues, land grabbing, supression, murder etc.

Wake Up and be free

Shalom
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written by cubi76, September 12, 2008 13:26:56
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written by Liberace, September 12, 2008 13:50:54
The problem with the world today led by bleeding heart liberal journalists, the history of Israel dates back only to 1947. Jews were in Israel long before it was called Palestine, a name given by Emperor Hadrian in 135 AD to completely wipe out the memory of the extremely rebellious Jewish people from their land. He renamed it Palestine, after the name of the ancient people, the Philistines (remember Goliath?) who were not Arabs but were Europeans originally from an island in the Aegean Sea.

There were indeed some tribes whom we know as Arabs today, but the large numbers moved in from neighbouring lands after Jews were sent into exile by the Romans. The Arabs then assumed the name Palestinians. So Israel is very much Jewish land, walked on by no less a name as Jesus more than 2000 years ago. Jews are an ancient people. Where do you think they lived before they went to Europe? If the Jews left Israel, they did not do by choice. They were forced into exile mostly to Europe where for 2000 years, they were persecuted to near extinction. Any bleeding heart European want to give them a piece of land in Europe where they can live in peace? If that had happened, Jews would never have returned to Israel.
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written by cubi76, September 12, 2008 13:55:14
Dear all,

You can say I do not know a thing about Islam. But I guess the reason the author wrote this article is to hope that we all see things from another angle and onjectively, instead of see it only from one side.

My point is, why cant people sit down and negotiate peacefully, instead of resort to war and violence? To be fair, I think Islam is a relatively peaceful religion. Only a certain number of practisioners turned into extremism.

I guess those moderate Muslims have the responsibility to restore the image of your religion, not through violence, but through reasoning and educating. I hope that Islam will one day find itself the old glory and once again as leading religion in the world that promotes humanitarian values.
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written by MalaysianUnited, September 12, 2008 14:18:02
sokong timberguy & shamsul siahaan..

Ahmadneil,

tak faham kenapa Alevi dikatakan sebagai progressif. Amalan gay dah lama ada dah..cuma orang sekarang tak ingat azab yang menimpa kepada umat nabi yang terdahulu. Buang bayi, apatah lagi..

progressif pada saya adalah apabila tiada sempadan antara masyarakat dalam pembentukan bangsa dan pembinaan kepada sebuah negara yang bertamadun..ya, itu dikenali sebagai progressif..
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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 14:19:09
written by ahmadneil, September 12, 2008 12:42:36

In Turkey there are muslims called the Alevi Muslims.The girls don't wear headscarves and they openly flirt with boys on the streets.They are muslim,but their doctorine is unflinchingly progressive,favoring gay rights,access to abortion,equal opportunity for women and pacifism.They don't believe in heaven or hell,don't perform the hajj pilgrimage and don't face Mecca when they pray.God they like to say,resides in people,not in mountains or stones.

******************************************************* ************************

So what? There are people who claim to be Muslims even in conservative Malaysia who indulge in illicit sex, drink liqour, cheat in business dealings, are corrupted to the core let alone perform the obligations as Muslims. The only thing that they do not dare do is to eat pork!
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written by quietguy, September 12, 2008 14:26:05
Why is it that when Muslims kill, people say it's because of religion, but when other people kill, it's got nothing to do with religion?

The fact is, Arabs have been killing each other long before Islam came into the picture. They are by nature very hot blooded people. I'm not being racist. If you don't believe me, try making friends with a few Arabs and you'll know what I mean.
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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 14:43:17
written by Liberace, September 12, 2008 13:50:54
The problem with the world today led by bleeding heart liberal journalists, the history of Israel dates back only to 1947. Jews were in Israel long before it was called Palestine, a name given by Emperor Hadrian in 135 AD to completely wipe out the memory of the extremely rebellious Jewish people from their land. He renamed it Palestine, after the name of the ancient people, the Philistines (remember Goliath?) who were not Arabs but were Europeans originally from an island in the Aegean Sea.

There were indeed some tribes whom we know as Arabs today, but the large numbers moved in from neighbouring lands after Jews were sent into exile by the Romans. The Arabs then assumed the name Palestinians. So Israel is very much Jewish land, walked on by no less a name as Jesus more than 2000 years ago. Jews are an ancient people. Where do you think they lived before they went to Europe? If the Jews left Israel, they did not do by choice. They were forced into exile mostly to Europe where for 2000 years, they were persecuted to near extinction. Any bleeding heart European want to give them a piece of land in Europe where they can live in peace? If that had happened, Jews would never have returned to Israel.
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You are wrong. The Jews are descendants of the Israelites who were brought to safety across the Red Sea after they were chased out of Egypt and started their lives in territories which were occupied by “big size” tribes who were the ancestors of the Palestinians. No, the big size tribes were not Arabs but after the expansion of Islam they took up the Arab language which eventually became the lingua franca of most of the Middle East.

The Israelites whom Moses freed from the excesses of the Egyptian Pharaoh were an ungrateful lot. Once brought to safety, they began to question Moses as to why they were brought to this land of uncultured big size tribes, with no food and shelter, forgetting the fact that had they remained in Egypt, they would have already been massacred.

These are the ancestors of the present Jews who, with the support of Westerners full of guilt for the horrendous massacre of the Jews across Europe and Russia, grabbed Palestine from and turned it into Israel.
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written by mawi, September 12, 2008 14:57:32
Ahmadneil's definition of progressive is equivalent to Ayah Pin's anything goes doctrine. Probably he is the one that loves to fondled his sons genitals to justify his lust as apprently this is one goat that cannot diffrentiate between what is lust and what is progress.As usual devils in the likes of, Tompios, Non Conformist, Temenggong and (where's FFT)are all bright and early to do their cowardly "baling batu sembunyi tangan" act.

Well devils, may I point to you that this Salim Mansur, is a fanatic, fundamentalist atheist who not only does not believe in God but despise people who profess religion. He is what Muslims call Munafik, a person who decieves Muslims by pretending to be one and these parasites are categorically mentioned in the Quran as someone who we Muslims should watch out for. Anyway, let me excite you with some good news. These munafiks's fate would be much worse than yours in the world hereafter before and after resurrection.

The article is totally out of its context. The title should actually be "People kill People" . The displays of killing done by Muslims , like as if in this world only Muslim kills Muslims, has its develish intentions.

This Indian pig from Kerala does not even utter a word about the Hindu clubbering the Christians in India recently or does he mention about the Serbs massacre of the Croats and Moslems or the enormous amount of killing fields going on in the non Muslim world.

Thatsan are and that the reason why religion plays an important role. I just can't imagine what it would be like if the world has to proceed without religion. It would be like living in this this infidel's and his devils crew world of hell.




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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 15:02:10
written by cubi76, September 12, 2008 13:55:14
Dear all,

You can say I do not know a thing about Islam. But I guess the reason the author wrote this article is to hope that we all see things from another angle and onjectively, instead of see it only from one side.

My point is, why cant people sit down and negotiate peacefully, instead of resort to war and violence? To be fair, I think Islam is a relatively peaceful religion. Only a certain number of practisioners turned into extremism.

I guess those moderate Muslims have the responsibility to restore the image of your religion, not through violence, but through reasoning and educating. I hope that Islam will one day find itself the old glory and once again as leading religion in the world that promotes humanitarian values.

Let’s look at the facts. Why should the US and their kafir cohorts occupy Iraq? As kafirs, they are satisfied even though the elder Bush already attacked Iraq in early 90’s. Why? Why are the kafirs again getting themselves involved in Afghanistan? Let’s go Sudan, another Muslim country. The US is trying very hard to “smash” Sudan militarily, which has large deposits of oil almost equivalent to that of Saudi Arabia. But with China and France (who are members of the UN Security Council) already established in the oil extraction industry, the US are now “hung-jawed”. The so-called world power with the tacit support of other kafir countries especially Israel, are so concerned about Iran developing its nuclear capability. Why?

Just leave the Muslims alone. The trouble is that the kafirs don’t live easy when they see Muslim countries are endowed with huge amounts of oil deposits. Surprisingly, Israel despite with countries around her having oil deposits, is not rewarded by God even a drop of oil!
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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 15:18:40
written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 13:09:37
With or without Religions, good people will be doing good things and bad people will be doing bad things. However, it takes religions for good people to do bad things.

This is the sad history of the human beings.
Wake up and be free.

Shalom


Nonsense. Religions teach their adherents to do good and not evil things. Only people who do not strictly follow their religion’s teachings are the ones who are doing the bad things. Let me ask you: why are the Christian US and other European nations and also Jewish Israel are busying themselves in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, the Philippines and elsewhere? Do Christianity (all versions) and the Jewish religion teach their followers evil?
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written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 15:38:03
written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 15:29:23

I am only taking up issue with your statement “However, it takes religions for good people to do bad things”.
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written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 15:58:52
written by shamsul siahaan, September 12, 2008 15:38:03
written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 15:29:23

I am only taking up issue with your statement “However, it takes religions for good people to do bad things”.

Exactly,they use religion to justify their evil deeds just as UMNO is using religion to justify their evil deeds here. RPK being picked up at the behest of JAKIM, MAKIM and all th KIM in the world, yet these people claim to represent GOD and get paid for it too.

I know that they are DISBELIEVERS and HYPOCRITES (Munafeequns) as per their own book, the Quran.

Shalom
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written by temenggong, September 12, 2008 16:36:49
Looks like Mawi cannot accept the fact of muslims killing muslims. He is in denial of the nature of his Arab Religion. He cannot see the killings in Pakistan's border with Afghanistan, Baluchistan, Iraq and of course Darfur, where muslims are killing muslims, even though the rest of the world see it everyday on CNN. He just can't see it. He is blind like most Arab Religionists!

I sure don't see christians killing christians, buddhists killing buddhists and hindus killing hindus.

And mawi can't see
muslims killing muslims.

It takes the 'christians' and others to keep the peace in Iraq and in Darfur! Eat that mawi!

BTW, just last week in Pakistan muslims buried alive 5 muslim women because they wanted to marry the man of their own choice.
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written by Admiral Tojo, September 12, 2008 17:38:43
Mawi, repent you fool. Revert back to ISLAM and drop that ARAB RELIGION like a stone (No pun intended). The Quran describes people like you as Munafeequns - hypocrites. So how???

Shalom
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written by Ireland, September 15, 2008 20:47:47
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha "When Muslims kill Muslims" Syaitan pun Gelak ketawa.... Bodoh punya Melayu.... bila nak sedar.... Islam itu bukan bangsa.....
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written by mawi, September 16, 2008 17:08:49
Temengong,

Either your are plain stupid or you are a dodo in disguise. Denial stage my foot. My point is not about Muslims killing Muslim but people killing people la BODOH.When the protestants and the catholics were clobbering each other in Ireland, its not about Christians killing christians but rather people killing people. Whem the the Hutus were slaying the Tutsis, itwas not about Christians killing Christians but People killing people and when the Russian went to kill the Georgians, its not about it either. You mean to tell me you did not hear about the Chinese (buddhist) burning the tibetans alive. The Thais killing the Cambodians, the North Vietcongs killing each other? Where have you been man - No No No, what have you been drinking, air ketum?
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written by mawi, September 16, 2008 17:13:46
And Admiral Tojo, the lesser devil as compared to Temenggong,you are asking me to repent. I have been doing that all my life and I have dropped the Arab religion and now I professed a religion brought into my life by Allah , God almighty. Sorry to dissappoint you.
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written by babihutan, September 17, 2008 01:08:44
I am not Muslim and do not have any knowledge of Islam.
But, I do know that when they are muslim problems everyhwhere in the world!
Look at the following countries:
Muslim in China
Muslim in Thailand
Muslim In Indonesia
Muslim in Philippine
Muslim in Malaysia
Muslim in Africa
Muslim in the west
and MUSLIM IN MIDDLE EAST

They have one thing in common....use Islam for own benefits
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written by MalaysianUnited, September 17, 2008 23:11:42
ahmadneil terpegun dengan Alevi yang pro-gay..mungkin dia pun memang gay..

Rasanya anda suka dengan kapal bahtera nabi Nuh dan cawan yang dibina oleh Ayah Pin?..hahaha!!

Opppss..sorry, that what u call progressive!!..hahaha!!
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