And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

I received an e-mail from a reader disagreeing with what I wrote in my article Inventing new religious rituals (http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/11508/84/ ). I forwarded his e-mail to a friend and my friend so kindly replied to the points raised. My friend's reply is in BOLD.

I thought I would share this ‘exchange’ with you while at the same time allow Syed Hamid to, again, scream that I am a ‘blasphemous Muslim of the worst kind’ and threaten me with detention under the Internal Security Act. These threats do turn me on so, and at times even gives me an orgasm, so keep them coming Syed.

In the article there was a sentence stating: "Apparently, the tudung was 'decreed' for only the Prophet's wives and not for all women…" So I've have looked into the Quran and found some things.

1) "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." Surah Al-Ahzab (33), verse 59.

Comment : Firstly, see the words 'so that they may be recognised and not annoyed'. This means at least the face must be visible. It is wrong to say that other women at that time (non Muslim Arabs, Jews, Christians) did not wear the tudung. The truth is that the Jewish and Christian women wore far more conservative tudung than the Muslim women.
 
Covering the body is also required of men and women in the desert. It has nothing to do with any religion. So when the verse says 'so that they may be recognised' it actually means the women should not cover their face or head in such a way that the people cannot differentiate them from other Christian and Jewish women who also wear tudung and veils. This means there is no such thing as a tudung to cover your head and face.
 
The verse 33:59 says the following in Arabic: 
 
Ya ayyuhan nabi : O you prophet
qul li-azwajika wabanaatika : tell your wives, your daughters 
wa nisaa i mu'mineena : and the believing women
yudneena : to lengthen
Alayhinna : over them
min jalabeebihinna : from their garments/cloaks. There is absolutely NO mention of head or hair or face in this verse. There is no reference to tudung. The reference is to lengthen your garments over your body. This means women must dress decently.

2) "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed." Surah An-Nur (24), verse 31.

Comment : Again there is no mention of head (ru'usa) in this verse or face (wujuh/wajh). Please note the words 'draw their veils over the bosoms'. The arabic is as follows:
 
walyadribna : and strike / cover
bi khumurihinna : with their outer garments
Ala : over / upon
juyoobihinna : their bosoms / breasts
 
Women are told to cover their chests/bosoms/breasts. That is all. This tallies with the earlier verse 33:59 above where the women are told to lengthen their clothes/garments. There is absolutely no mention of head (ru'usa), face (wujuh) or hair.

3) In order to interpret the Quran, we have to go to people who have knowledge about it. In what circumstance the verse was revealed, etc. But not just any scholar who says that they know.

Comment : We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEAD (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

4) There are loads more Hadeeth on women's veils.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil.  He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Comment : This is quite typical of the hadeeth. What in God's name does it mean 'the veil of her companion'? If veils are worn by women, then the companion must be a female too. Why pinjam her female companion's veil? Then her female companion will NOT have a veil anymore. Does this mean the female companion now cannot leave the house until the girl who borrowed her veil returns home ? Read carefully. It says 'she should cover herself with the veil of her companion'. What if there is no companion? 
 
What if she has her own veil? Does she still have to borrow? What if both the girl and her female companion dont have veils? This does not make sense. I think this hadeeth has to be checked carefully for its authenticity.
 
Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Sura 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Comment : This contradicts the meaning of the verse. As I said the verse does NOT mention face at all. As I have pointed out, the women are supposed to be identified and differentiated from the other women (who also wore veils and covered their faces like the Christians and the Jews). This means their faces had to be exposed. But the hadeeth says the women were told to cover their faces. The authenticity of this hadeeth needs to be checked carefully.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.
 
Comment : Why not? The Quran says that we must think of God ALL THE TIME. The Quran says 'zikrulaahi-akbar' which means 'the constant remembrance (zikir) of God is better'. A woman (and men too) should remember God when she goes about her housework, her gardening, her driving, her swiming, her job etc.  God can accept her zikir or remembrance of Him anytime. That is why the remembrance of God (God consciousness) is greater 'zikrulaahi-akbar'.

Looking into the comments on the articles, the person who tried to point this sentence out was ridiculed. So that is why I sent this e-mail so that I would get your attention. Thank you for your time.

Comments (107)

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written by sampalee, September 07, 2008 14:43:16

The importance of the the scripture is to lead you to your final destination.Once you are home[with Allah],the sceneries and landmark you pass through is umimportant.Morever there many roads leading home,each with its sets of backdrop.Understand Tawhid and what is there to argue and who is there to argue with.Islam is simply great that few muslim get it.

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written by cubi76, September 07, 2008 14:44:23

Every religion should promote peace, love, equality among races, but importantly between sexes too. No religion should promote hatre, war, racism, sexism, inequality.

I believe in equality, in all races and sexes. I mean...Who are we to dictate and direct how should one wear? What if we were the ones who got directed and ordered by someone how we should wear? How we should cover our head?

I am in no position to criticise any religion. No offence intended.

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written by densemy, September 07, 2008 14:50:22

Fascinating religious/academic/historical debate. But may I remind you that this is the 21st Century and this is Malaysia. The tudung is seen as just another of Islam's fear tactics to suppress its followers... this time its the women. And the inadequate ego driven muslim men use it as a means to further suppress their women

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written by R Hum, September 07, 2008 15:01:34

Breaking News

Malaysia move to new form of Justice System


Malaysia has decided to abandon the “ western style” of democracy where the courts decide the verdict of the outcome of any trial. Instead the Barisan Nasional party which has ruled Malaysia for 51 years has decided to align its new justice system based on a moderate form of Islam called Islam Hadhari, where oath taking or swearing in the mosque has taken over the traditional court system.

Malaysia a former colony of Britain, which gained its independence in 1957, has made impressive economic progress since independence, has decided that the court system is not working to the government advantage. The Home Affairs Minister, Syed Alkbar, believes that the traditional “ Western court system” is full of injustice and must be replaced. He was quoted as saying that the previous system failed miserably because persons who were charged with sodomy, have been found not guilty by the courts , because the evidence induced in the courts were manipulated by the defence lawyers. The evidence of statutory declaration is one case in point that is working against the government.

From hence forth, the Home Minister, reiterated that “ sumpah” or swearing in front of Imams would be the best way to determine a person guilt or innocence.
He said that those who are guilty would probably not wish to exercise the new justice system, but if we the government do not introduce this new process, the prosecution will lose 99% of the case. He further add that the swearing must be in front of BN appointed Imams only as those imams appointed from PAS are not recognised.

In another development, 46 Barisan Nasional MPs have been granted leave to go on a two weeks all paid vacation to Down Under, because of the impending date September 16, 2008, which soothsayers said is unlucky. The trip costing $750,000 is fully funded by one Barisan MP, who has risen from obscurity to be one of the richest person on the Malaysia Rich List.

Last year, the Home Minister defended the Morality Squad raid in a hotel, where an European tourist couple sleeping in their hotel room, were rudely interrupted by the action of the Morality Squad. Syed Alkbar said that the Morality Squad was looking for unmarried Muslim couple who have no privacy in their home because of relatives, and were ‘ doing it” in hotel. Syed went on to say “ we must nip these type of action in the bud, so that it will not tarnish the image of Malaysia”. “ When it comes to sex, we the government have the final say”.


Stay tune for more development from Disneyland ( Ohp! sorry Malaysia Bolehland) where everything is possible.

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written by sjs, September 07, 2008 15:11:51

There are two types of tudung(hijab) worn by Malaysian women:

1) One worn by great Muslim ladies like Wan Azizah, which actually covers parts of the face which are not supposed to be exposed. Tied properly below, so that it does not fall apart from the face.

2) The other worn by UMNO "Muslim" ladies like Sharizat, which does not serve any purpose, because it keeps falling apart.

Of course there are people like Rafidah, who wears them only during solemn occassions!

Finally, there are UMNO "Muslim women" who wear the tudung, but still can point their fingers to the anus of men! Like what happen in Permatang Pauh picture!

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written by sjs, September 07, 2008 15:14:24

Syed Hamid,

You are a “Muslim”, I am a Hindu. The difference between us is:

I love Islam, a religion which you have constantly used for your self-gains! In the eyes of Allah, I am a better human-being than you!

I question whatever little Islam that is left inside you, aren’t you ashamed that you are using Islam to propagate your government’s hidden agenda to cripple innocent individuals!

Aren’t you ashamed that you are using Islam as a tool of imprisoning individual who has truly given a new meaning and hope to this religion of Allah, which often times have been seen as a religion of the extremists!

Islam is a past-time for you, it can be bent to suit your whims and fancies, and it can fill your corrupt coffers. But one day you have to answer to this same Islam, that you consistently chose to manipulate!

The cells at Sungei Buloh will be empty comes end September!

We will greet this news with double joy and happiness, when the gate of Sungei Buloh welcomes its first and truly deserving occupant, the champion and living legacy of RACISM, the master of all evils, named SYED HAMID ALBAR.

In honour of your “services” rendered to this nation, the people of Malaysia, in one united voice, loud and clear, will echo your unending belief, that

“ISA shall never, never be abolished in the interest of this nation!”

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written by ahmadneil, September 07, 2008 15:21:53

'Do what whatever you want with that piece of ... cloth and if you like you can stick it up your ...'.I don't want Botak to accuse RPK of offending Islam again

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written by chipon, September 07, 2008 15:32:08

Pete,

I'v been a supporter of Anwar Ibrahim and the opposition since i started to know politics.

But however, I'v to disagree with this latest article of yours. Please do not try to talk about Islam this way too much. This will definitely confius the Muslims. Quran could not be understood just by using your logic, but it has to be guided by Iman. The level of Iman is very important in order for Allah to give hidayah to you to understand His instructions.

Try to have a dialogue with Tok Guru Nik Aziz first on this matter before you announce things as if you are the most qualified to do it.

I can sense that there are some factions in the Opposition thats trying to secularise PAS and the country.

Islam is a way of life, thus nothing, not even politics can be seperated from Islam. Understand this pete.

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written by tom73my, September 07, 2008 15:33:35

Seriously RPK, what is the big deal about the tudung? What is the GREAT debate? It's up to individual to wear, to cover whatever they want to cover. Can you please explain the significance of this thread. Thanks.

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written by Anti Jihadist, September 07, 2008 15:36:17

After all this heavy-duty contemplation of the Quran and all the wonderful good deeds of the seventh century "prophet", I've got a question for all you serious Muslim scholars out there.

What is the waiting period between conversion to Islam and entitlement to full benefits at the afterlife shindig? I suspect that the inventory of virgins is getting a bit thin as a result of the recent spate of martyrdom operations, but if I’m sitting on a airplane and hear an outbreak of "allahu akbar", I’m gonna want to get my fair share of the action once we arrive in paradise! (it’s 72, right?)

Look forward to reading your responses.

____________________________________
http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com

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written by Rozlan, September 07, 2008 15:52:04

Covering the body is also required of men and women in the desert. It has nothing to do with any religion. So when the verse says 'so that they may be recognised' it actually means the women should not cover their face or head in such a way that the people cannot differentiate them from other Christian and Jewish women who also wear tudung and veils. This means there is no such thing as a tudung to cover your head and face.

"So that they may be recogize" means they could be indentified as a muslim woman.It got nothing to do with face..When the Al Quran ordered Prophet wives to cover themselves it means the edict was for all muslim women...MInd you,except for their nuns jewish women and Chrisitian didnt wear tudung.

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written by cubi76, September 07, 2008 15:52:47

Dear chipon,
- "I can sense that there are some factions in the Opposition thats trying to secularise PAS and the country. "

Let's make things straight and dont twist it around.
Malaysia has always been a secular country. It was, it is, and it will always be. Islam is the official religion, as written in the Constitution, and I respect that. Nobody questions about it. But Malaysia has never been an Islamic State.

It's not some factions in opposition trying to secularise PAS or country. Instead it's the other way round, there's some faction in opposition trying to Islamise the country!

Be wise.

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written by cwy, September 07, 2008 15:56:28

Again there is no mention of head (ru'usa) in this verse or face (wujuh/wajh). Please note the words 'draw their veils over the bosoms'. The arabic is as follows

I suppose the women were not wearing bra last time.
But I notice many Muslim women with 'tudung' buying sexy and expensive brabded bra at hyperstore!

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written by wishuponastar, September 07, 2008 15:59:16

RPK ,

A Syed is helping a Raja to save money on Viagra?
Have some mercy on the guy-lah.Don't confuse him,he would be pulling his hairs wondering how he aided in your orgasm.End result more blur and less hair.

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written by Dreamlander, September 07, 2008 15:59:36

Interpreting the meanings of ancient texts, especially religious ones, must take into consideration the climatic, geographical and social conditions that existed at the time such texts were first written or recorded.
The Middle-East is mostly an arid place, but it was the land where Judaism, Christianity & Islam were founded some 2 millenniums ago. Therefore particular attention was place on the dress codes of its then residents dictated by actual local conditions. Just consider, before they ride camels, now they drive humvees

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written by alfchuah, September 07, 2008 16:08:12

First of all, I don't agree with chipon for asking believers to revert to some "tok guru" or "selected few" for guidance. You can discuss, like what we are doing now, but you can't possibly be blindly following someone's version of the religion. Can you teach a student without asking him/her to think? The problem with Islam is that it has too much hadiths, which possibly are not the words from god. Mainly they consists of collection of what people around the Prophet might have said and what the tribes might have practiced years ago.

You have to read the text yourself. The very reason why Muslim/Christian all around the world are being ignorant and righteous is because they have never really studied the book before. But they claim themselves to be the most faithful ones by holding a bible or listening (while falling asleep) to an Iman.

Secondly, I have to say that you're wrong in saying that religion is a way of life hence everything had to be part of it. Let's go to millions of years ago and go to Africa, what did those Africans believe in? Almost every African Americans are Christian now and supposedly they are sent by Jesus. What about their ancestors? And back home, the very ancestors of Malay/Indonesian, who had sent them to earth before the preachers came from Arab? Have you thought about your ancestors not being Muslim and you won't meet them in heaven? Not everyone believe in the same religion hence it can't be the common denominator!

Just because you believe Islam is the creator doesn't mean that everyone should subscribe to the same literature and suffer the consequence of your belief. You believe in your god you go to heaven at the end of the day. Don't bother with others - they are prepared to deal with their own fates without your interference. Do your own homework, forcing others won't get your extra points.

Back to the religious teaching - I'm just being skeptical and indifferent to all religions. If god intended for the believers to settle into the 21st century life, s/he would have printed a yearly updated version of the book. And why interpret the teachings if interpretations can lead to so much confusion? Everyone is trying to score with god. Islam, if you are willing to explore the origins, has been heavily convoluted with tribal practices. It's not just god's words but also the culture of the nomad tribes years ago! Don't you forget that Muhammad was illiterate - how can you be 100% sure that his words weren't lost in translation? Furthermore, there was no paper to record things in the past - writings were scribbled onto tree barks and animal skins. You need to be skeptical and ijtihad!

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written by Richy, September 07, 2008 16:19:27

I"m not qualified to speak about Islam but wish to tell those who wants to profess religion to others to fully understand their respective religion first before doing so.

Most of them are mere readers of holy books without real wisdom. And without wisdom it is impossible to understand the underlying message or lesson. And teaching religion to others without wisdom is equivalent to a journey to wrong destination. It's unfortunate most of our people on their way to wrong destination.

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written by varvoom, September 07, 2008 16:20:29

and don't forget the world was made only 6000 years ago, in 6 working days!wonder who made God!

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written by Adely, September 07, 2008 16:25:04

in the 70s when i went to SRK St Francis and my sisters went to SRK Convent, the nuns worn tudung and robe that practically cover their hair and body - just like the tudung labuh and jubah worn by Muslim women nowadays...
Hmmm... do these Muslim women prescribe to the teaching of catholic? Please help me RPK - i am utterly confused.

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written by raven1958, September 07, 2008 16:43:59

Never had much respect for women in Malaysia wearing the "thewdong"...and will never will......just ostriches.....head stuck deep in sand...oblivious to everything else that goes around the world.....hey whatever happened to good old Malay culture....where is Anita Sarawak.....just miss those good old days....hope Anwar will bring it back....enough of this arabic cultural pretence......want to where the thewdong, just ship them back to the Arabs....

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written by kanokporn, September 07, 2008 16:45:01

why islamic scholars so clever ah? were they born with clothes on or off?
if god exists and created man/woman and wanted them to use clothes god would have made clothes in the first place but god made them naked. what about before clothes were invented? anyway it is a joke when you see how muslims spend so much money on these tudung things and try to look better not to please their husbands but to give a holier than thou or better then thou look. somebody pls give botak a piece of cloth to cover his brain. clothes are so expensive la nows adays

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written by chanmalichan, September 07, 2008 16:46:40

Whether right or wrong, I am just glad to know that RPK is very confident when writing this piece and is not afraid of being ISAed. He must have something up his sleeve for Botak!

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written by hakuna, September 07, 2008 16:50:13

Pete, thanks - this is definitely enlightening.

"Chipon" - I definitely beg to differ with your views. Islam spread because people talked about it and it was logical to the senses and thus was accepted. All of us are learning things daily and Pete is no different and he is willing to share what he has learnt. Just as a reminder NO ONE knows EVERYTHING, even Tok Guru inclusive. Whether you are pro government or anti is not the question , the article is about the "tudung" and its relations with Islam. If your are knowledgeable enough then by all means spar with RPK.

Pete's article is merely to share his knowledge and that's about it.

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written by Mimi, September 07, 2008 16:54:05

I have to support chipon in this matter. I too am a strong supporter of Freedom of Speech as in MT and DSAI, but I STRONGLY DISAGREE with this article. Let us keep our focus on the issues of mismanagement of our country and let us not waste time debating on religious issues. Your article will only confuse Muslims readers and Non Muslim (who doesn’t know better) will just end up making their own conclusions. Before we know it, both sides will be throwing insults in the comments column and criticizing each others’ religion. Our main focus is to stand UNITED to bring in NEW LEADERS in this country and to get rid CORRUPTION and MISMANAGEMENT of M’sia’s economy. We need to bring in stability and economic prosperity. We cant do this if we are BICKERING among each other on issues such as tudung and wat not. PLEASE RPK. Lets stop all this religious articles. Ramadan is a holy month. Let us Muslims and Non Muslims alike respect the month by not exchanging obscenities and insults to fellow M’sians.

RPK, I know you are angry at all those JAKIM JAIS etc..for all we know..they are merely “mengikut arahan…” plus if you don’t giva hoot at what they think, you should just proceed in ensuring and assisting Pakatan Rakyat achieve our target come Sept 16 and not by making confusing articles which can be ammunition to the Enemies beyond…

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written by mulut murai, September 07, 2008 16:55:47

I am going to say that covering of aurat for male and female Muslims (including wearing of tudung for women)is compulsory. No two way about it. Not to obey this command is a great sin.

There are enough literatures by respected scholars which will support my stand but I am not going to waste my and your time debating about it because it may take days or weeks before we are done.

Most importantly however is,
I am also going to say that, we shall not be preoccupied with only this obligation.
We must also uphold that telling lies are also great sins,
incarcerting people without justifications is also great sin,
corruption is also a great sin,
fitnah is also a great sin (even greater than murder),
not treating law-abiding citizens equally is a also a great sin,
making money unlawfully is also a great sin,
taking advantage of ones position is also a great sin,
etc etc etc.

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written by Australian Malaysian, September 07, 2008 17:41:03

Dear R Hum

"In another development, 46 Barisan Nasional MPs have been granted leave to go on a two weeks all paid vacation to Down Under, because of the impending date September 16, 2008, which soothsayers said is unlucky. The trip costing $750,000 is fully funded by one Barisan MP, who has risen from obscurity to be one of the richest person on the Malaysia Rich List"

Well, I'd better go & get a bigger SD Card for my camera & buy some new clothes for my trips to the Burswood Casino...incidentally, I'll need to withdraw some money too for the VIP Room or otherwise known as the "High Rollers" room!

The things we have to do during the holy month of Ramadan!!!!

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written by Sudahlah tu, September 07, 2008 18:09:03

Pelik lagi ....

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written by Jeremy, September 07, 2008 18:21:57

I think this is very petty matter to discuss in this web-site. Whether a Muslim lady wears a tudung or not is not as important as her behaviour. A Muslim lady can be wearing a tudung but accepts bribes easily or is arrogant, then her tudung is just a cover-up (excuse the pun). And vice versa, she might not be wearing a tudung but is a kind-hearted person.

There are more important matters to discuss.

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written by WANZAH1, September 07, 2008 18:36:22

WHY RPK?? YOU PUT YOUR EGOISM ORGASM TO BE SO NUTSHELL OF MUSLIMS??. YOU KNOW AS MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS THEY DO KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE ALQURAN BY PRESSING THE TRANSLATOR BUT NOT TO INTERPRET. TO INTERPRET YOU NEED FULL KNOWLEDGE NOT ONLY ON ARABIC BUT ALSO THE HISTORICAL OF THE VERSES, HOW, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, WHO AND WHAT IT TOOK FOR THE AYAT TO BE REVELATED TO MUHAMMAD AND THE HADEETH, HOW WAS THE PROPHET INTERPRET WITH HIS WAY OF LIFE. DON'T COMPARE WITH JEWS OR NASRANI, LAKUM DI NUKUM WALIADDIN; DON'T TELL ME BECAUSE YOUR WIFE & FAMILY NOT WEARING TUDUNG, IT IS NOT AN OBLIGATORY FOR MUSLIMAH, DON'T TELL ME HAIR IS NOT AURAT, DON'T TRY TO SWAY OTHERS SINCE YOU PUT YOURSELF UNDER THE IBLIS IF YOU ARE TRYING TO LEARN ISLAM BY THE BOOK WITHOUT GURU MUKTABAR.

PETE BACK HOME BOY; TELL YOUR OTHER MUSLUM RELATIVES NOT TO HAVE BUSINESS IN ALCOHOL AND WITH WOMEN EXPOSED.

TQ I LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU ENLIGHTEN US IN THE MISDEED OF THE GOVERNMENT BUT SURELY NOT WHEN YOU WROTE ABOUT ISLAM.

TQ

WRM

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written by orangmsia, September 07, 2008 18:44:19

A good video clip on tudung issue among msian women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8jnJrQxso

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written by educationist, September 07, 2008 19:01:30

RPK, I salute you.
With all those police reports and the ISA threat , you are still calling a tudung , a tudung.
Good to know you are still up and running.

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written by A MI, September 07, 2008 19:14:08

Although many modern UMNO may be happy with this article, since their women - Ros, Sharizat etc..don't wear the tudung bulat, Jeanne just started sporting a shawl recently - I am afraid you are inviting the displeasure of the dimwits in JAIS and JAKIM.

Now Hadi and Mat Sabu of PAS will also be shouting angrily at you.

Sigh remember what happened to Salman Rushdie for challenging the Hadith. In Malaysia only certain people have been given the license to "interpret" for Muslims.

Incidentaly the wearing of the tudung by Malay women wasn't really widespread in Malaysia till the late 70s

YM RPK I hope you really have some sort of higher reason for writing this piece. Inviting Al Blurs ISA threat is not worth it. What good is it if you are behind bars.

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written by LILIN, September 07, 2008 19:14:39

Salam

Nice comments by RPK's friend. Some of the Quranic and Hadith texts were taken out of context by his friend. I will mention only one example here: His friend suggests Zikrullah as 'prayer'. Prayer in the hadith means perform the solat and solat is way different from Zikr. Zikr can be performed even when a woman is not 'covered' while solat must be performed with veil.

Also, during the time of the Prophet, it is well documented that women were covered with their hijab which is different from tudung but does the same thing..that is covering their hair. There are other hadith and parts of the Quraan that says hair is 'aurat'.

It is simple to make the connection. No need to humiliate the person who criticized Raja Petra (our political hero) on that matter.

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written by omarkhayyam, September 07, 2008 19:16:57

Pete,

i am comfortable seeing a 2 piece bikin clad woman as much as i am comfortable seeing a burkha clad woman or tudong in this case. Lets take for example a nun in her "tudong" its more conservative than many a tudong we see here in Malaysia.

anyway my malay wife doesnt wear a tudong and we get by life albeit some stares from those "holier than thou" jackasses .... who cares she is my woman and she is comfortable being herself

cheers

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written by faridib, September 07, 2008 19:18:30

Hijab is derived from the Arabic word 'hajaba', which means to conceal or to prevent from being seen.

It was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering; and it is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years too. Muslims who studied Islamic history will know that these( Judaism & Christianity)religions before Islam were from God & they were true at that time until Islam came. Thus it is obvious that Islam didn’t invent the head cover; instead Islam endorsed it.

The Quran says, “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty……And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms….” (24:30,31).
The KEY word is 'guard their modesty'.

The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested” (33:59).

This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection.

Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection.

It is fascinating to note that there is so much hue & cry over the tudung but nothing on the skimpy, bare here, bare there clothing. Many muslims are so scared (we can understand why the ignorance of the non-muslims) of the headcover so much so they'll keep harping on the same issue every now & then!

And especially for Super admin, I have this question - if you say you don the hat, does it state anywhere the word 'head' or 'hair'?

And pls don't block my comments as had previously been done on the tudung issue. If you subscribe to true'freedom', SHOW it!

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 19:21:33

We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEAD (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

How come when a non doctor gives a medical advice by reading the medicl book is not accepted?

Can an indon construction man build a bunglow without an architect and a civil engineer but based oh his understanding?

why must you be a registered lawyer with the bar counsel before you can defence someone in court?

Can I be a captain of the airbus in an airline by just having training using a software on my pc?


I can ask these questions till the cow comes home... it will never end.



When I say to in english to a woman or a group of women " Please take care, I love you (all)"

If you translate this in Malay... "Tolong jaga diri, saya cinta (sayang/kasih) anda (semua)"


based of culture, situation during the words were said.. makes it a lot of different...

a father telling his daughter(s)
A Man to his wife
a man to his girlfriend

the words were said...
on bed
at the airport


people who said that were

malays
englishmen
indians



See why translations alone is not enough?

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written by kawaafi, September 07, 2008 19:32:54

Salam RPK,

Quran is reveal by Allah swt to Prophet Muhammad saw. He then show us how it should be implemented. Muslim women wear tudung not because Arab's culture but because that is how Prophet Muhammad saw shows us how to practically follow the Quran. Yes the quran may not say head or face, but does the wives of the prophet and women believers at that time wear clothes without covering their head..?

Perhaps its a norms for them to cover their heads everyday, that also explain why Quran did not mention it as it should be understood.

Nevertheless, their (Prophet wives and women beleivers)practice should be followed as reflection to the verses revealed.

Is the tudung issue really matter..? well, to all Malaysian friend, with all due respect, it is very very important.

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written by A MI, September 07, 2008 20:18:45

Maybe as Kawaafi say the tudung is important.. because there are gomen department heads who will promote women only if they are weraing the tudung!.....but there are far more important things like akhlak which in my opinion leaves much to be desired among us Muslims. Just look at the politicians behaviour..wheeling dealing cheating, make false accusations..

Let me ask you this, do you know how many tudung clad unmarried girls either go for abortions or even go the government clinics for delivery? It is apalling. I cringe everytime a non-muslim doctor asks me how come these tudung clad girls are promiscuous as some do not know who the father of the baby is. Why is it we Muslims harp on trivial issues? There are much much bigger and more pressing critical issues to deal with now.

Let this not be another case of not being able to see the woods for the trees.

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written by babihutan, September 07, 2008 20:20:11

Why muslim like to compared among themselve who is more muslim??
If too into islam, u will become racist, extremist, terrorist....dont know what type of "IST".....
Why?? Islam is good or bad?? If good,
Why muslim (as minority in some countries) like Thailand, Philippine, China doing killing and bombing?? Oh their governement suppressed them huh?
Now, talked about majority 0f muslim in middle east, same things lah, killing, bombing......

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written by PakItam, September 07, 2008 20:33:00

I must say I might have to agree with faridib and the dragonheart. When we go to court, even Shafee needs a lawyer and it takes doctors with MBBS or MD to prescribe drugs and only architects and engineers can sign plans when it comes to buildings.

As much as all of us can or are free enough to talk about the nitty gritty of religion and post our opinions, can we let the professionals handle this??

Quranic Tafsir Scholars, Islam jurists and jurisprudence experts, Hadith scholars anyone??? Please present your 6-year, 7-year study effort here.

Pete, please stick to your petrafications, and as much as we all love you, please let the scholars debate this. Let's stick to what the priorities are in religion: justice, civil society, transparency, good governance, accountability.

And people, if girls wear the tudung out of their sincerity, who are we to judge them? Let the first person with the knowledge of sincerity in all these tudunged-girl heart cast the first stone.

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written by pillars, September 07, 2008 21:51:53

Lets be realistic, people wear different at the old days because simply no fashion at that time. Most of them wear just simple cloth, robe like, be it the Prophet, Jesus or Budha Gautama. So are the women. Mother Mary also wear kind of 'tudung'. The catholic nuns also still wear 'tudung' up to now.

So wear tudung or not its a personal choice. More important is the heart, not tudung or the length of the dress.

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:02:31

We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEAD (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

How come when a non doctor gives a medical advice by reading the medicl book is not accepted?

Can an Indon construction man build a bungalow without an architect and a civil engineer but based oh his understanding?

why must you be a registered lawyer with the bar counsel before you can defend someone in court?

Can I be a captain of the airbus in an airline by just having training using a software on my pc?


I can ask these questions till the cow comes home... it will never end.



When I say to in english to a woman or a group of women " Please take care, I love you (all)"

If you translate this in Malay... "Tolong jaga diri, saya cinta (sayang/kasih) anda (semua)"


based of culture, situation during the words were said.. makes it a lot of different...

a father telling his daughter(s)
A Man to his wife
a man to his girlfriend

the words were said...
on bed
at the airport


people who said that were practicing

Malays culture
Englishmen culture
Indians culture

would it make a different when you literally translate their words without interpreting them?

See why translations alone is not enough?

Again there are many sanctions and commands in the Quran needs Hadist support and this is reference to the Hadist is provided in the quran itself...


YM RPK, I do not say your translation is wrong but I totally disagree the way you try to justify what had been practice almost 1500 years were incorrect...

What you wrote here is making the non-pious Muslims in a disequilibrium state of mind and you also mislead the non learned non Muslims about Islam...

I am very sad...

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:11:34

Allah Ta’ala commands the wives of the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) in the noble Qur’aan, thus, ‘And stay within your homes.’ (Ahzaab). Allaamah Zaahid al-Kawthari mentions in his book, ‘Hijaab al-Mar-atul Muslimah’ this is an address to the wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), so the women besides them will be addressed to a greater extent.’ The reason being that Allah will not choose just any evil or bad women for the marriage of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). Allah will choose the best of women for this purpose. So, when this is the case that the most pure women of the Ummah are being addressed in this manner, then those women who are junior to them are addressed to a greater extent.

Today, the aspect of Hijaab is misunderstood greatly. The Niqaab is becoming a fashion, people haven’t understood the aspect of Hijaab. The actual object of Hijaab is concealment and to stay indoors. The object of Hijaab is not to just don the veil and parade the shopping malls and shows where there is intermingling of sexes. Wearing the veil is not a license for coming out of the house as it is misunderstood, but only under extreme necessity if a woman has to come out of her house, then she must don the Hijaab (veil) and under this context does this Aayat fit, i.e. O Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam)! Instruct your wives, your daughters an the believing women to draw over them their outer garment (veils).’ Otherwise, the law for a woman is she has to remain indoors as we have quoted the Aayat previously, ‘remain indoors’.

What we have understood, thus far, is that a woman must remain indoors at all times, and only due to extreme necessity she is allowed to come out of her house, donning the veil.

What is worse is that today the women adopt al-Tabarruj (i.e. exposure) when they come out. And majority of the time when they come out of their houses, it is without necessity. In doing so, they are going against the book of Allah in many ways, a) They are coming of their houses without necessity where as the Qur’aan commands them to remain indoors (as we have mentioned earlier), b) They are exposing their faces whereas the Qur’aan has commanded them to draw their veils (as mentioned earlier) and Allah Ta’ala and says in the Qur’aan, ‘and abstain from al-Tabarruj (exposure).

Imam Qurtubi (RA) mentions the meaning of al-Tabarruj after gathering all the views of the previous commentators of the Qur’aan. He says, in short, al-Tabarruj means a woman exposing her beauties to men. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi vol.14 pg.175; Cairo)

It is a well-known fact that from all the beauties of a woman, her face is the greatest. So, Allah is commanding her not to expose her face more seriously. So, if a woman does not don the veil when she comes out of the house (even when it is extremely necessary), she will be grossly disobeying the command of Allah Ta’ala and thereby earning the displeasure of Allah. What a greater can there be in disobeying the command of Allah that earning his displeasure! Earning the displeasure of Allah is worst thing a person can ever earn as this will lead to his destruction.

May Allah Ta’ala give us all the ability to understand the reality of Hijaab and observe it according to its requisites.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai, www.ask-imam.com
FATWA DEPT.

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written by guevarayu, September 07, 2008 22:19:15

*my 2 cents would be: human nature is as such, we need to believe something is logical. we are design to understand things which are humanly understandable. we would be more convince of things which are tangible as opposed to intangible no? by saying this, one out of 6 Rukun Iman, Beriman kepada Kitab, and that would be Al-Quran (as it is deemed to be the complete 'manual' after Torah, Zabur & Bible) is more 'convincing' in this context (and please dont get me wrong). as it been said, it is a book of God's words, we should refer to it by pass any hadith no? Al-Quran could never err. as we are all human, WE bound to err instead, same goes to all imam, ustaz, ustazah etc. tho, they are more 'educated' in this subject matter than most of us. but that doesnt mean they would be right 100% all the time. we need to make our own 'homework' by falling back to Al-Quran for research. plus, a famous doctor & orator in Comparative Religion studies, Zakir Naik, once said, Al-Quran is a form of the best Arabic literature. by its nature, literature means to be decifer to a form much simpler to understand. and thats that.*

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 22:23:10

To wear tudung or not?
To cover the face?
To cover the breasts, bosoms?
To cover the thighs?
To cover, to cover, to cover
some went undercover
Some discover
Some never discovers but follows blindly
Phark, use our brains lah, Park lah.

I can criticise the Catholics here but not the muslims because they are so narrow minded!

The catholics says they should not wear condoms but reproduce simply. Go follow and bring misery to yourself lah!

Don't cover your face in the desert is stupid lah.

I once work in UAE and the desert storms can be very damaging lah. Even your car paint is lost overnight.

That is why you need to cover your face, but don't do it everywhere.

Come onlah! Think , Think Think and Think for yourself.

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:32:00

Dear cheemengwong,

Muslims are not narrow minded but God fearing. The Hijab is not about sand storm but about piousity to God. Hijab is about Awrah (Aurat). Only Jahiliah like you try to reason things to environment and situations.. You are Not a muslim so you are not a God fearing human.

The awrah of a woman is the areas of her body, which must be covered. The respected scholars from past and present have differed in whether the veil should cover the hands and face, or whether it is sufficient to cover everything, save the hands and face.

Aisha (RA) reported that once her sister, Asma (RA) visited her in finery while the Prophet (SAW) was at home. He (SAW) turned away from her and said, "O Asma, when a woman reaches puberty it is not lawful for her to uncover any part of her body except this." He (SAW) then pointed to his face and hand palm.

(Abu Dawud)

The above narration is one of the most commonly cited as proof for leaving the face and hands uncovered. The main consideration of this opinion must be what constitutes the face and the hands. The above statement clearly illustrates that the hand is part of the body, which extends below the wrist bone.

The definition of what constitutes the face can be found in another tradition of the Prophet (SAW).

He (SAW) pointed from his forehead to his chin and from his cheek to the cheek. (Abu Dawud)

It may be of importance to note that ears must also be covered because they are not a part of the face, but are a part of the head as he (SAW), said,

"The two ears are a part of the head."

(Tirmithi)

This opinion also does not allow for the uncovering of the neck and breast. The khimar must cover the entire head, INCLUDING THE EARS, ALL OF THE HAIR, come down from the head to COVER THE NECK AND THE BOSOM. This is clear in the statement of Allah (SWT),

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc., and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks, and bossoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment ..."

(An-Nur 24:31)

Also among the things that must be covered are the clothes that a woman wears IN HER HOME. It is not sufficient for a Muslim woman to go out in PANTS or a SKIRT, a LONG SHIRT, or even a SHALWAR KAMEESE and a khimar, because many times the clothes that a woman wears in the house are themselves adornments.

As the above verse states, Allah (SWT) FORBIDS the believing women from displaying her adornments, except to those people whom are clearly named out in (the remaining part of) the verse (An Nur 24:31). Allah (SWT) also commands His Prophet (SAW) to tell the women in the following verse,

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

(Al-Ahzab 33:59)

Even though the hijab is not merely a covering dress, equally as important ,it is behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public; there are certain standards of dress however, "Conditions of Hijab", that must be maintained.

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written by shamadz72, September 07, 2008 22:54:16

Dear Pete,

Did you see anything in the Al-Quran where it told us to cover women C-L-I-T-S? (Sorry I have to write it that way to avoid censorship).

So does it means our women don't have to cover that part?

How about for man covering their D-I-C-K? Any verse on that? Come on lah bro.. that is why our great prophet Muhammad SAW was sent to us so that we can have a clear idea on how to do everything the right way. He is the living Quran as an example for us to follow.

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written by franco, September 07, 2008 22:57:13

Dear Pete,

I understand that you are just putting the comments from someone with regards to tudung. It is not your interpretation and the interpretation of the person (the email) is totally wrong and has gone out of context.

The scholars of Islam have long in agreement about women attire and no one dispute that the women must cover their body except the face, the hand and the foot. It should be covered until that the shape of the body is not seen. But women are also human being which always confused and tend to go against the order of Allah with the assistance of the Syaitan. That is why we see women in tudung of various style and the shape of the body is exposed although covered. It is more for the sake of fashion rather than obeying the Almighty.

They find all sort of excuses, logic and interpretation of the clear Al Quran verses. They pick part of the verse, combine with another and so forth so that what they belief can be defended and justifiable. They also interpret from purely the translation alone without understanding the arabic language itself. Whereas there are many arabic terms that is not available in other language especially Bahasa Melayu.

Anyway I would suggest that you stop bringing the detail issue of fiqh but remained in highlighting the wrong doing of Muslims in general especially those muslim politicians. Highlighting the hypocrisies amongst the muslims with the purpose of reminding us so that we returned to the right path, is much better.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:24:33

I am not going to admonish or go into a debate with anyone. I am writing what I see ok...

Not all Muslims fears God, just like Christians, Catholics, Buddhists and others.

If Muslims fears God, then Malaysia would be the epitome of Islam are we?

Corruption here, there everywhere
Step father raping step children.
Rapist murdering their victims
Scandals involving millions of ringgit are reported

Just don't be a hypocrite and pretend to know what is right and wrong in God's eyes.

If we can't love our own neighbour, how can we profess we fear and love God we can't see?

Prak lah.

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written by richardwong, September 07, 2008 23:25:41

Quran: surah 7 verse 26 . . . .the raiment (ie covering) of righteousness is better.
Surah 49, Verse 13 . . . the most honourable is one who is righteous (who has At-Taqwa)

Believers and non-believers, please accept that there are priority deeds and conduct and lesser such as superficial compliance to wearing of tudung and the like. Why emphasize on the lesser values instead of honesty at work and leisure and home, business conduct without abnormal profit, less business inkling during Ramadan and more display of sales of food and drinks at “give-away” price to aid the community, etc to inculcate the spirit of restrain and not “30 days celebration” for each fasting day.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:28:39

I was just thinking our loud, perhaps if God forbid human women to show off their face, breasts, neck, thigh, God would be wise to create a shell just like the tortoise for human beings...

No offence to any human beings dead or alive... it is just my thought. Actually I am quite ignorant why women cannot show their assets and men can!

How unfair.

Prick lah.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:35:14

On Fridays, I observed that Muslims going to and from mosques do not need to wear helmet... is this lawful? Or there is a law that says Fridays no need to wear helment. God will protect accidents?

They say if they bring helmets to mosque afterwards losts! Incredible. We pray to God to be good and holy and yet helmet can lost. Perplexing lah.

Even shoes outside also lost! Most prefers slippers only.

Also parking is everywhere and illegal parking becomes legal. How come double standard and no respect for human law but say God's law must follow!

Really mind blogglinglah!

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written by shamadz72, September 07, 2008 23:49:32

written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 | 23:35:14

They say if they bring helmets to mosque afterwards losts! Incredible. We pray to God to be good and holy and yet helmet can lost. Perplexing lah.

Dear Mr Chee,

I bet you are the type of person who will always leave around their wallet on a chair in church or (at which ever house of worshipping you believe into) when going to toilet to ease themselves because you have faith in your god. I bet you also don't lock your car when you park within the visinity of that holy place

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written by alpal78, September 08, 2008 00:17:06

Sorry Pete but I'm disappointed in you for publishing this article, not only because I disagree with the opinion published but more importantly, this article creates division within Pakatan Rakyat at a time when we most needs to remain united. This article is as good as the Ahmad "Chinese squatter" statement, in that it can potentially split the BN along racial lines. This article can split the opposition along religious/secular lines.

There are clear fault lines between PAS and DAP and DSAI understood it himself which is why there was little mention of religion in the March 8 election. As the saying goes, let's focus on our commonality and not our differences. You know that this opinion will alienate most PAS supporters and their comments will in turn invite refutations from DAP counterparts (both can be unnecessarily nasty), and you can see this happening already by just going through the comments. So in terms of how this adds value to the opposition quest to win back our country, it is absolutely useless.

Sure you have the freedom of opinion to say what you want, but you have a higher role to play in the opposition machinery than to just defend freedom of speech. We have come to expect more from our hero RPK, and judged against those standards this article is a huge let down.

Sure you can claim that you didn’t write this piece but publishing the piece knowing full well the divisive consequences it will have is equally reprehensible, at least to me.

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written by samesamemam, September 08, 2008 00:18:50

All this talk reminds me of the ongoing debate between Catholics and Protestants on the Immaculate Conception or virgin birth. Was Mary, the mother of Jesus, a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus. The Catholics say ‘yes’, she was a virgin and they got hundreds of references from the holy texts, translated from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to justify their position; the Protestants say ‘no’, she was not a virgin and they have another hundreds of references from the holy texts translated from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to justify their position. This debate has been going on for a long time and still is. It won’t end.

The wisest thing I heard so far was from a young Christian, baffled by the debates and the passion behind this type of religious rhetoric…”What does it matter if Mary was a virgin or not? Why the **** are they making such a big issue of such a small tissue?”

I think these religious debates, as with many others, reflect our sexual problems and hang-ups, no matter which side of the political fence we stand.

My point is that these types of discussions won’t get us anywhere. When we try to mix religion, politics and sexuality to make a point or win a debate, nobody wins (the women almost always loses) cos there’ll be somebody out there who will defend to death that his is the biggest…

Lets focus folks…

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 00:18:58

I keep my wallet in my pocket.
I go around town with my helmet irrespective if it is Monday or Friday.
I lock it on my bike and don't give any excuse for not wearing it.
The police will summon me if I don't.
I never give any execuses and try to hide under name of religion.
And I never lock my car irrespective of where I park. I am driving around in a 1984 nissan with no aircon, no rear seats and my key is always in the car. Nobody wants it. It becomes a burden if they steals it.

The policemen still flags me down just to see if they can extract some money every 6 months or so if they hve a chance.

What visinity? Is it virginity you are talking? I lost it about 50 years ago.


Don't believe me? Come and see it yourself.

Prak Lah.

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written by LucidMind, September 08, 2008 00:31:44

Yeah right!

And this will be the consequence after the girls and women give in to the "modesty code":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7593765.stm

My dear female friends and their love ones(of all religion and political parties), wake up, voice out. Evil thrive in darkness and silence. Let there be light (your gaze and mind) and voices from you.

Women should not be subserviant to men. They should not be a "second class citizen".

and o ya, in case you wonder, I am a man.

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 00:37:48

I walk around town and see...

Massage Parlours

Sports Dodo
Maimun 4 d
Three plus 1 Ta Ma chai
Where Mulims and non Muslims alike spents their grocery and school fees to gamble.

Video Arcades where school children ponteng sekolah to lepak

Kuda Arcades where hundreds of dollars are losts... controlled by triads who have protection from the authorities...otherwise how can they operate?

**** shops inside 5 star hotels around the city...

Casinos in Pahang operating 24 x 7 buidling a culture and lifestyle of decadence..

All this in a Muslim land where the people in power would stop at nothing to arrest, scare and intimidate anyone who dares to raise an issue like tudung in the name of Islam.

What are the righteous Muslims leaders and politicians of this land going to do about it?

Please do it now, otherwise forever shut the big mouth.

BIG HYPOCRITES ONLY

Please lah, don't major on the minor. Major on the major and get the fundamentals right.

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written by alpal78, September 08, 2008 01:04:28

Pete I was perhaps a bit harsh in my previous comments when I said

"Sure you have the freedom of opinion to say what you want, but you have a higher role to play in the opposition machinery than to just defend freedom of speech. We have come to expect more from our hero RPK, and judged against those standards this article is a huge let down"

Nobody knows your intention for publishing this article, it it was just to air off some secular steam, then I stand by my earlier rebuke.

However it just occured to me that you may a higher objective afterall. One of the fears of Pakatan is that come Wednesday when DSAI attends court, the bail order will be revoked and he will be put behind bars pending trial. Surely there will be no defections if the PM in waiting is behind bars, afterall, most BN defectors are defecting because they want to be on the winning side.

Now if DSAI goes behind bar, the BN government can still say that it was a standard court decision. BUT if you go into ISA in the same week too (because of this article...I sure it's not too long now before they march you over), then it will be difficult for BN to claim that all are standard procedure. Revoking DSAI's bail and sending RPK to ISA in the same week is just too big to not be a political conspiracy.

So you are either sacrificing yourself so that DSAI will remain on bail so that he can affect the changes necessary (and of course free you later) or that you are hoping that if both of you go in, then the rakyat will rise up.

A bit of conspiract theory I know, but that's only because I am trying my best to give you the benefit of the doubt for publishing this article.

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written by chipon, September 08, 2008 02:03:44

Please Pete,

We really respect u for your great deeds of trying to work towards better governance of this country. You are an important part in unifying all of us in our move to rectify the problems of this country's leadership.

But please..please don't produce something that can disunite the unity of pakatan rakyat. The muslims support Pakatan Rakyat because they are damn sick of UMNO's mismanagement and corrupt practices. Not because of wanting Malaysia to become more secularise than what it has been all this while.

To the Muslims who has been supporting the Opposition all this while, even during DSAI was still in UMNO, we hate UMNO because it does not support Islam. UMNO has NEVER supported Islam all this while. The true Islam.

So please don't write articles that will divide Pakatan Rakyat.

And if u want to write something about Islam, please DISCUSS it with religious scholars first. Not to say that u have to agree with them. BUT DO DISCUSS IT FIRST BEFORE U SAY ANYTHING!

Hail Pete! Hail Islam!

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written by renoir, September 08, 2008 02:40:25

My first understanding (and here I must say I know next to nothing about Islam) at the words "so that the woman be known" was exactly what Rozlan says - that it meant the woman be known as a Muslim. And another reader is right in that the tudung is of a Judeo-Christian heritage, so it's natural that "people of the Book" share the same cultural/religious customs (e.g. in Corinthians Paul also insisted that the woman covers her face in Church).

I'm a bit troubled by the line that the tudung was advised for "protection." Does it mean the those who don't wear are fair game for harrassment, molestation, or rape? Given the fact that many Middle Eastern women of all ethnic groups did NOT wear the scarf - perhaps implied by the condemnations of loose women and idolators in the Bible - were these women then oppressed by religious people? I think there's probaby some element of that, but of course the sentence about "protection" could also mean that GENERALLY most people tend to see non-tudung women as immoral, i.e., women who actually INVITE sexual attention. Thus, the admonition to wear one.

I think it's ok for RPK to write his view of the tudung - Islam and indeed most established religions are surely not so weak that it could be undermined by different interpretations or even outright criticisms. Moeover, many readers here have already shown that they don't take everything published as gospel - even if the views are from RPK.

Personally, some of my best experiences are with tudung women - many gave up their seats for me at LRT or buses, and a tudunged medical assistant was the only cheerful AND helpful person I met at Sunway Medical.

LChuah

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written by beyonce, September 08, 2008 04:56:42

salam pete, i think this tread is not suitable for all this while. Let's focus to our agenda to prevail the misconduct of beend members and others which more important in provide knowledgeable to us. Hopefully, this tread can be discuss as soon we seize power from beend...that's one thing for sure..perhaps this tread won't divide people's coalition in any means...we are already united as shown in last election and against the ruling party...Let's stand still..Peace!!!long live PR and RPK!!!

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written by A MI, September 08, 2008 07:19:54

Nevertheless, their (Prophet wives and women beleivers)practice should be followed as reflection to the verses revealed.

If good Muslims are to emulate the Prophet (PBUH) and his wives then it should be a personal choice. Please remember the Hadith has been recorded by various men and there are that many more interpreatations. Why go so far we have at least 4 main mazhabs which have differing views.

Just learn to respect one another. Frindly advice is OK but any holier than thou attitude should be avoided.

And alpal78 I think you have deciphered the higher reason for this article for me. I think you are spot on.

read this again people

Now if DSAI goes behind bar, the BN government can still say that it was a standard court decision. BUT if you go into ISA in the same week too (because of this article...I sure it's not too long now before they march you over), then it will be difficult for BN to claim that all are standard procedure. Revoking DSAI's bail and sending RPK to ISA in the same week is just too big to not be a political conspiracy.

So you are either sacrificing yourself so that DSAI will remain on bail so that he can affect the changes necessary (and of course free you later) or that you are hoping that if both of you go in, then the rakyat will rise up.

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written by grandmarquis, September 08, 2008 08:03:45

What a waste of time for such debate because the debate is merely the whims and fancies of the debater self interpretation of the Quran. If you ask 10 person to do the same, you will get 10 different versions of the so call Tudung Debate.

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written by A MI, September 08, 2008 08:50:26

grandmarquis, September 08, 2008 | 08:03:45
........... the debate is merely the whims and fancies of the debater self interpretation of the Quran. If you ask 10 person to do the same, you will get 10 different versions of the so call Tudung Debate.

Granted. I am glad somebody has said this. So interpretations can vary too right.

Someone wise once said..there is no such thing as right or wrong but everything is a point of view..a perspective.

If we can all realise this and we don't have to become all frisky and bicker.....

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written by Krepot, September 08, 2008 08:54:18

Putting on a tudung does not make ANY difference,
if you are bad, you are bad,
If you are good and don't wear a tudung,
you are still good.

It is YOU that makes a difference,
not the tudung.
The tudung is just a piece of cloth.

Don't make such as fuss about it,
and don't blame the Qu'ran for it!

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