And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

I received an e-mail from a reader disagreeing with what I wrote in my article Inventing new religious rituals (http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/11508/84/ ). I forwarded his e-mail to a friend and my friend so kindly replied to the points raised. My friend's reply is in BOLD.

I thought I would share this ‘exchange’ with you while at the same time allow Syed Hamid to, again, scream that I am a ‘blasphemous Muslim of the worst kind’ and threaten me with detention under the Internal Security Act. These threats do turn me on so, and at times even gives me an orgasm, so keep them coming Syed.

In the article there was a sentence stating: "Apparently, the tudung was 'decreed' for only the Prophet's wives and not for all women…" So I've have looked into the Quran and found some things.

1) "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." Surah Al-Ahzab (33), verse 59.

Comment : Firstly, see the words 'so that they may be recognised and not annoyed'. This means at least the face must be visible. It is wrong to say that other women at that time (non Muslim Arabs, Jews, Christians) did not wear the tudung. The truth is that the Jewish and Christian women wore far more conservative tudung than the Muslim women.
 
Covering the body is also required of men and women in the desert. It has nothing to do with any religion. So when the verse says 'so that they may be recognised' it actually means the women should not cover their face or head in such a way that the people cannot differentiate them from other Christian and Jewish women who also wear tudung and veils. This means there is no such thing as a tudung to cover your head and face.
 
The verse 33:59 says the following in Arabic: 
 
Ya ayyuhan nabi : O you prophet
qul li-azwajika wabanaatika : tell your wives, your daughters 
wa nisaa i mu'mineena : and the believing women
yudneena : to lengthen
Alayhinna : over them
min jalabeebihinna : from their garments/cloaks. There is absolutely NO mention of head or hair or face in this verse. There is no reference to tudung. The reference is to lengthen your garments over your body. This means women must dress decently.

2) "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed." Surah An-Nur (24), verse 31.

Comment : Again there is no mention of head (ru'usa) in this verse or face (wujuh/wajh). Please note the words 'draw their veils over the bosoms'. The arabic is as follows:
 
walyadribna : and strike / cover
bi khumurihinna : with their outer garments
Ala : over / upon
juyoobihinna : their bosoms / breasts
 
Women are told to cover their chests/bosoms/breasts. That is all. This tallies with the earlier verse 33:59 above where the women are told to lengthen their clothes/garments. There is absolutely no mention of head (ru'usa), face (wujuh) or hair.

3) In order to interpret the Quran, we have to go to people who have knowledge about it. In what circumstance the verse was revealed, etc. But not just any scholar who says that they know.

Comment : We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEAD (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

4) There are loads more Hadeeth on women's veils.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil.  He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Comment : This is quite typical of the hadeeth. What in God's name does it mean 'the veil of her companion'? If veils are worn by women, then the companion must be a female too. Why pinjam her female companion's veil? Then her female companion will NOT have a veil anymore. Does this mean the female companion now cannot leave the house until the girl who borrowed her veil returns home ? Read carefully. It says 'she should cover herself with the veil of her companion'. What if there is no companion? 
 
What if she has her own veil? Does she still have to borrow? What if both the girl and her female companion dont have veils? This does not make sense. I think this hadeeth has to be checked carefully for its authenticity.
 
Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Sura 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Comment : This contradicts the meaning of the verse. As I said the verse does NOT mention face at all. As I have pointed out, the women are supposed to be identified and differentiated from the other women (who also wore veils and covered their faces like the Christians and the Jews). This means their faces had to be exposed. But the hadeeth says the women were told to cover their faces. The authenticity of this hadeeth needs to be checked carefully.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.
 
Comment : Why not? The Quran says that we must think of God ALL THE TIME. The Quran says 'zikrulaahi-akbar' which means 'the constant remembrance (zikir) of God is better'. A woman (and men too) should remember God when she goes about her housework, her gardening, her driving, her swiming, her job etc.  God can accept her zikir or remembrance of Him anytime. That is why the remembrance of God (God consciousness) is greater 'zikrulaahi-akbar'.

Looking into the comments on the articles, the person who tried to point this sentence out was ridiculed. So that is why I sent this e-mail so that I would get your attention. Thank you for your time.

Comments (107)

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written by sampalee, September 07, 2008 14:43:16

The importance of the the scripture is to lead you to your final destination.Once you are home[with Allah],the sceneries and landmark you pass through is umimportant.Morever there many ro*** leading home,each with its sets of backdrop.Understand Tawhid and what is there to argue and who is there to argue with.Islam is simply great that few muslim get it.

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written by cubi76, September 07, 2008 14:44:23

Every religion should promote peace, love, equality among races, but importantly between sexes too. No religion should promote hatre, war, racism, sexism, inequality.

I believe in equality, in all races and sexes. I mean...Who are we to dictate and direct how should one wear? What if we were the ones who got directed and ordered by someone how we should wear? How we should cover our head?

I am in no position to criticise any religion. No offence intended.

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written by densemy, September 07, 2008 14:50:22

Fascinating religious/academic/historical debate. But may I remind you that this is the 21st Century and this is Malaysia. The tudung is seen as just another of Islam's fear tactics to suppress its followers... this time its the women. And the inadequate ego driven muslim men use it as a means to further suppress their women

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written by R Hum, September 07, 2008 15:01:34

Breaking News

Malaysia move to new form of Justice System


Malaysia has decided to abandon the “ western style” of democracy where the courts decide the verdict of the outcome of any trial. Instead the Barisan Nasional party which has ruled Malaysia for 51 years has decided to align its new justice system based on a moderate form of Islam called Islam Hadhari, where oath taking or swearing in the mosque has taken over the traditional court system.

Malaysia a former colony of Britain, which gained its independence in 1957, has made impressive economic progress since independence, has decided that the court system is not working to the government advantage. The Home Affairs Minister, Syed Alkbar, believes that the traditional “ Western court system” is full of injustice and must be replaced. He was quoted as saying that the previous system failed miserably because persons who were charged with sodomy, have been found not guilty by the courts , because the evidence induced in the courts were manipulated by the defence lawyers. The evidence of statutory declaration is one case in point that is working against the government.

From hence forth, the Home Minister, reiterated that “ sumpah” or swearing in front of Imams would be the best way to determine a person guilt or innocence.
He said that those who are guilty would probably not wish to exercise the new justice system, but if we the government do not introduce this new process, the prosecution will lose 99% of the case. He further add that the swearing must be in front of BN appointed Imams only as those imams appointed from PAS are not recognised.

In another development, 46 Barisan Nasional MPs have been granted leave to go on a two weeks all paid vacation to Down Under, because of the impending date September 16, 2008, which soothsayers said is unlucky. The trip costing $750,000 is fully funded by one Barisan MP, who has risen from obscurity to be one of the richest person on the Malaysia Rich List.

Last year, the Home Minister defended the Morality Squad raid in a hotel, where an European tourist couple sleeping in their hotel room, were rudely interrupted by the action of the Morality Squad. Syed Alkbar said that the Morality Squad was looking for unmarried Muslim couple who have no privacy in their home because of relatives, and were ‘ doing it” in hotel. Syed went on to say “ we must nip these type of action in the bud, so that it will not tarnish the image of Malaysia”. “ When it comes to sex, we the government have the final say”.


Stay tune for more development from Disneyland ( Ohp! sorry Malaysia Bolehland) where everything is possible.

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written by sjs, September 07, 2008 15:11:51

There are two types of tudung(hijab) worn by Malaysian women:

1) One worn by great Muslim ladies like Wan Azizah, which actually covers parts of the face which are not supposed to be exposed. Tied properly below, so that it does not fall apart from the face.

2) The other worn by UMNO "Muslim" ladies like Sharizat, which does not serve any purpose, because it keeps falling apart.

Of course there are people like Rafidah, who wears them only during solemn occassions!

Finally, there are UMNO "Muslim women" who wear the tudung, but still can point their fingers to the anus of men! Like what happen in Permatang Pauh picture!

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written by sjs, September 07, 2008 15:14:24

Syed Hamid,

You are a “Muslim”, I am a Hindu. The difference between us is:

I love Islam, a religion which you have constantly used for your self-gains! In the eyes of Allah, I am a better human-being than you!

I question whatever little Islam that is left inside you, aren’t you ashamed that you are using Islam to propagate your government’s hidden agenda to cripple innocent individuals!

Aren’t you ashamed that you are using Islam as a tool of imprisoning individual who has truly given a new meaning and hope to this religion of Allah, which often times have been seen as a religion of the extremists!

Islam is a past-time for you, it can be bent to suit your whims and fancies, and it can fill your corrupt coffers. But one day you have to answer to this same Islam, that you consistently chose to manipulate!

The cells at Sungei Buloh will be empty comes end September!

We will greet this news with double joy and happiness, when the gate of Sungei Buloh welcomes its first and truly deserving occupant, the champion and living legacy of RACISM, the master of all evils, named SYED HAMID ALBAR.

In honour of your “services” rendered to this nation, the people of Malaysia, in one united voice, loud and clear, will echo your unending belief, that

“ISA shall never, never be abolished in the interest of this nation!”

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written by ahmadneil, September 07, 2008 15:21:53

'Do what whatever you want with that piece of ... cloth and if you like you can stick it up your ...'.I don't want Botak to accuse RPK of offending Islam again

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written by chipon, September 07, 2008 15:32:08

Pete,

I'v been a supporter of Anwar Ibrahim and the opposition since i started to know politics.

But however, I'v to disagree with this latest article of yours. Please do not try to talk about Islam this way too much. This will definitely confius the Muslims. Quran could not be understood just by using your logic, but it has to be guided by Iman. The level of Iman is very important in order for Allah to give hidayah to you to understand His instructions.

Try to have a dialogue with Tok Guru Nik Aziz first on this matter before you announce things as if you are the most qualified to do it.

I can sense that there are some factions in the Opposition thats trying to secularise PAS and the country.

Islam is a way of life, thus nothing, not even politics can be seperated from Islam. Understand this pete.

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written by tom73my, September 07, 2008 15:33:35

Seriously RPK, what is the big deal about the tudung? What is the GREAT debate? It's up to individual to wear, to cover whatever they want to cover. Can you please explain the significance of this thread. Thanks.

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written by Anti Jihadist, September 07, 2008 15:36:17

After all this heavy-duty contemplation of the Quran and all the wonderful good deeds of the seventh century "prophet", I've got a question for all you serious Muslim scholars out there.

What is the waiting period between conversion to Islam and entitlement to full benefits at the afterlife shindig? I suspect that the inventory of virgins is getting a bit thin as a result of the recent spate of martyrdom operations, but if I’m sitting on a airplane and hear an outbreak of "allahu akbar", I’m gonna want to get my fair share of the action once we arrive in paradise! (it’s 72, right?)

Look forward to reading your responses.

____________________________________
http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com

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written by Rozlan, September 07, 2008 15:52:04

Covering the body is also required of men and women in the desert. It has nothing to do with any religion. So when the verse says 'so that they may be recognised' it actually means the women should not cover their face or head in such a way that the people cannot differentiate them from other Christian and Jewish women who also wear tudung and veils. This means there is no such thing as a tudung to cover your head and face.

"So that they may be recogize" means they could be indentified as a muslim woman.It got nothing to do with face..When the Al Quran ordered Prophet wives to cover themselves it means the edict was for all muslim women...MInd you,except for their nuns jewish women and Chrisitian didnt wear tudung.

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written by cubi76, September 07, 2008 15:52:47

Dear chipon,
- "I can sense that there are some factions in the Opposition thats trying to secularise PAS and the country. "

Let's make things straight and dont twist it around.
Malaysia has always been a secular country. It was, it is, and it will always be. Islam is the official religion, as written in the Constitution, and I respect that. Nobody questions about it. But Malaysia has never been an Islamic State.

It's not some factions in opposition trying to secularise PAS or country. Instead it's the other way round, there's some faction in opposition trying to Islamise the country!

Be wise.

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written by cwy, September 07, 2008 15:56:28

Again there is no mention of head (ru'usa) in this verse or face (wujuh/wajh). Please note the words 'draw their veils over the bosoms'. The arabic is as follows

I suppose the women were not wearing bra last time.
But I notice many Muslim women with 'tudung' buying sexy and expensive brabded bra at hyperstore!

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written by wishuponastar, September 07, 2008 15:59:16

RPK ,

A Syed is helping a Raja to save money on Viagra?
Have some mercy on the guy-lah.Don't confuse him,he would be pulling his hairs wondering how he aided in your orgasm.End result more blur and less hair.

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written by Dreamlander, September 07, 2008 15:59:36

Interpreting the meanings of ancient texts, especially religious ones, must take into consideration the climatic, geographical and social conditions that existed at the time such texts were first written or recorded.
The Middle-East is mostly an arid place, but it was the land where Judaism, Christianity & Islam were founded some 2 millenniums ago. Therefore particular attention was place on the dress codes of its then residents dictated by actual local conditions. Just consider, before they ride camels, now they drive humvees

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written by alfchuah, September 07, 2008 16:08:12

First of all, I don't agree with chipon for asking believers to revert to some "tok guru" or "selected few" for guidance. You can discuss, like what we are doing now, but you can't possibly be blindly following someone's version of the religion. Can you teach a student without asking him/her to think? The problem with Islam is that it has too much hadiths, which possibly are not the words from god. Mainly they consists of collection of what people around the Prophet might have said and what the tribes might have practiced years ago.

You have to read the text yourself. The very reason why Muslim/Christian all around the world are being ignorant and righteous is because they have never really studied the book before. But they claim themselves to be the most faithful ones by holding a bible or listening (while falling asleep) to an Iman.

Secondly, I have to say that you're wrong in saying that religion is a way of life hence everything had to be part of it. Let's go to millions of years ago and go to Africa, what did those Africans believe in? Almost every African Americans are Christian now and supposedly they are sent by Jesus. What about their ancestors? And back home, the very ancestors of Malay/Indonesian, who had sent them to earth before the preachers came from Arab? Have you thought about your ancestors not being Muslim and you won't meet them in heaven? Not everyone believe in the same religion hence it can't be the common denominator!

Just because you believe Islam is the creator doesn't mean that everyone should subscribe to the same literature and suffer the consequence of your belief. You believe in your god you go to heaven at the end of the day. Don't bother with others - they are prepared to deal with their own fates without your interference. Do your own homework, forcing others won't get your extra points.

Back to the religious teaching - I'm just being skeptical and indifferent to all religions. If god intended for the believers to settle into the 21st century life, s/he would have printed a yearly updated version of the book. And why interpret the teachings if interpretations can lead to so much confusion? Everyone is trying to score with god. Islam, if you are willing to explore the origins, has been heavily convoluted with tribal practices. It's not just god's words but also the culture of the nomad tribes years ago! Don't you forget that Muhammad was illiterate - how can you be 100% sure that his words weren't lost in translation? Furthermore, there was no paper to record things in the past - writings were scribbled onto tree barks and animal skins. You need to be skeptical and ijtihad!

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written by Richy, September 07, 2008 16:19:27

I"m not qualified to speak about Islam but wish to tell those who wants to profess religion to others to fully understand their respective religion first before doing so.

Most of them are mere readers of holy books without real wisdom. And without wisdom it is impossible to understand the underlying message or lesson. And teaching religion to others without wisdom is equivalent to a journey to wrong destination. It's unfortunate most of our people on their way to wrong destination.

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written by varvoom, September 07, 2008 16:20:29

and don't forget the world was made only 6000 years ago, in 6 working days!wonder who made God!

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written by adely, September 07, 2008 16:25:04

in the 70s when i went to SRK St Francis and my sisters went to SRK Convent, the nuns worn tudung and robe that practically cover their hair and body - just like the tudung labuh and jubah worn by Muslim women nowadays...
Hmmm... do these Muslim women prescribe to the teaching of catholic? Please help me RPK - i am utterly confused.

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written by raven1958, September 07, 2008 16:43:59

Never had much respect for women in Malaysia wearing the "thewdong"...and will never will......just ostriches.....head stuck deep in sand...oblivious to everything else that goes around the world.....hey whatever happened to good old Malay culture....where is Anita Sarawak.....just miss those good old days....hope Anwar will bring it back....enough of this arabic cultural pretence......want to where the thewdong, just ship them back to the Arabs....

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written by kanokporn, September 07, 2008 16:45:01

why islamic scholars so clever ah? were they born with clothes on or off?
if god exists and created man/woman and wanted them to use clothes god would have made clothes in the first place but god made them naked. what about before clothes were invented? anyway it is a joke when you see how muslims spend so much money on these tudung things and try to look better not to please their husbands but to give a holier than thou or better then thou look. somebody pls give botak a piece of cloth to cover his brain. clothes are so expensive la nows adays

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written by chanmalichan, September 07, 2008 16:46:40

Whether right or wrong, I am just glad to know that RPK is very confident when writing this piece and is not afraid of being ISAed. He must have something up his sleeve for Botak!

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written by hakuna, September 07, 2008 16:50:13

Pete, thanks - this is definitely enlightening.

"Chipon" - I definitely beg to differ with your views. Islam spread because people talked about it and it was logical to the senses and thus was accepted. All of us are learning things daily and Pete is no different and he is willing to share what he has learnt. Just as a reminder NO ONE knows EVERYTHING, even Tok Guru inclusive. Whether you are pro government or anti is not the question , the article is about the "tudung" and its relations with Islam. If your are knowledgeable enough then by all means spar with RPK.

Pete's article is merely to share his knowledge and that's about it.

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written by Mimi, September 07, 2008 16:54:05

I have to support chipon in this matter. I too am a strong supporter of Freedom of Speech as in MT and DSAI, but I STRONGLY DISAGREE with this article. Let us keep our focus on the issues of mismanagement of our country and let us not waste time debating on religious issues. Your article will only confuse Muslims readers and Non Muslim (who doesn’t know better) will just end up making their own conclusions. Before we know it, both sides will be throwing insults in the comments column and criticizing each others’ religion. Our main focus is to stand UNITED to bring in NEW LEadERS in this country and to get rid CORRUPTION and MISMANAGEMENT of M’sia’s economy. We need to bring in stability and economic prosperity. We cant do this if we are BICKERING among each other on issues such as tudung and wat not. PLEASE RPK. Lets stop all this religious articles. Ramadan is a holy month. Let us Muslims and Non Muslims alike respect the month by not exchanging obscenities and insults to fellow M’sians.

RPK, I know you are angry at all those JAKIM JAIS etc..for all we know..they are merely “mengikut arahan…” plus if you don’t giva hoot at what they think, you should just proceed in ensuring and assisting Pakatan Rakyat achieve our target come Sept 16 and not by making confusing articles which can be ammunition to the Enemies beyond…

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written by mulut murai, September 07, 2008 16:55:47

I am going to say that covering of aurat for male and female Muslims (including wearing of tudung for women)is compulsory. No two way about it. Not to obey this command is a great sin.

There are enough literatures by respected scholars which will support my stand but I am not going to waste my and your time debating about it because it may take days or weeks before we are done.

Most importantly however is,
I am also going to say that, we shall not be preoccupied with only this obligation.
We must also uphold that telling lies are also great sins,
incarcerting people without justifications is also great sin,
corruption is also a great sin,
fitnah is also a great sin (even greater than murder),
not treating law-abiding citizens equally is a also a great sin,
making money unlawfully is also a great sin,
taking advantage of ones position is also a great sin,
etc etc etc.

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written by Australian Malaysian, September 07, 2008 17:41:03

Dear R Hum

"In another development, 46 Barisan Nasional MPs have been granted leave to go on a two weeks all paid vacation to Down Under, because of the impending date September 16, 2008, which soothsayers said is unlucky. The trip costing $750,000 is fully funded by one Barisan MP, who has risen from obscurity to be one of the richest person on the Malaysia Rich List"

Well, I'd better go & get a bigger SD Card for my camera & buy some new clothes for my trips to the Burswood Casino...incidentally, I'll need to withdraw some money too for the VIP Room or otherwise known as the "High Rollers" room!

The things we have to do during the holy month of Ramadan!!!!

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written by Sudahlah tu, September 07, 2008 18:09:03

Pelik lagi ....

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written by Jeremy, September 07, 2008 18:21:57

I think this is very petty matter to discuss in this web-site. Whether a Muslim lady wears a tudung or not is not as important as her behaviour. A Muslim lady can be wearing a tudung but accepts bribes easily or is arrogant, then her tudung is just a cover-up (excuse the pun). And vice versa, she might not be wearing a tudung but is a kind-hearted person.

There are more important matters to discuss.

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written by WANZAH1, September 07, 2008 18:36:22

WHY RPK?? YOU PUT YOUR EGOISM ORGASM TO BE SO NUTSHELL OF MUSLIMS??. YOU KNOW AS MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS THEY DO KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE ALQURAN BY PRESSING THE TRANSLATOR BUT NOT TO INTERPRET. TO INTERPRET YOU NEED FULL KNOWLEDGE NOT ONLY ON ARABIC BUT ALSO THE HISTORICAL OF THE VERSES, HOW, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, WHO AND WHAT IT TOOK FOR THE AYAT TO BE REVELATED TO MUHAMMad AND THE HadEETH, HOW WAS THE PROPHET INTERPRET WITH HIS WAY OF LIFE. DON'T COMPARE WITH JEWS OR NASRANI, LAKUM DI NUKUM WALIadDIN; DON'T TELL ME BECAUSE YOUR WIFE & FAMILY NOT WEARING TUDUNG, IT IS NOT AN OBLIGATORY FOR MUSLIMAH, DON'T TELL ME HAIR IS NOT AURAT, DON'T TRY TO SWAY OTHERS SINCE YOU PUT YOURSELF UNDER THE IBLIS IF YOU ARE TRYING TO LEARN ISLAM BY THE BOOK WITHOUT GURU MUKTABAR.

PETE BACK HOME BOY; TELL YOUR OTHER MUSLUM RELATIVES NOT TO HAVE BUSINESS IN ALCOHOL AND WITH WOMEN EXPOSED.

TQ I LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU ENLIGHTEN US IN THE MISDEED OF THE GOVERNMENT BUT SURELY NOT WHEN YOU WROTE ABOUT ISLAM.

TQ

WRM

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written by orangmsia, September 07, 2008 18:44:19

A good video clip on tudung issue among msian women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8jnJrQxso

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written by educationist, September 07, 2008 19:01:30

RPK, I salute you.
With all those police reports and the ISA threat , you are still calling a tudung , a tudung.
Good to know you are still up and running.

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written by A MI, September 07, 2008 19:14:08

Although many modern UMNO may be happy with this article, since their women - Ros, Sharizat etc..don't wear the tudung bulat, Jeanne just started sporting a shawl recently - I am afraid you are inviting the displeasure of the dimwits in JAIS and JAKIM.

Now Hadi and Mat Sabu of PAS will also be shouting angrily at you.

Sigh remember what happened to Salman Rushdie for challenging the Hadith. In Malaysia only certain people have been given the license to "interpret" for Muslims.

Incidentaly the wearing of the tudung by Malay women wasn't really widespread in Malaysia till the late 70s

YM RPK I hope you really have some sort of higher reason for writing this piece. Inviting Al Blurs ISA threat is not worth it. What good is it if you are behind bars.

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written by LILIN, September 07, 2008 19:14:39

Salam

Nice comments by RPK's friend. Some of the Quranic and Hadith texts were taken out of context by his friend. I will mention only one example here: His friend suggests Zikrullah as 'prayer'. Prayer in the hadith means perform the solat and solat is way different from Zikr. Zikr can be performed even when a woman is not 'covered' while solat must be performed with veil.

Also, during the time of the Prophet, it is well documented that women were covered with their hijab which is different from tudung but does the same thing..that is covering their hair. There are other hadith and parts of the Quraan that says hair is 'aurat'.

It is simple to make the connection. No need to humiliate the person who criticized Raja Petra (our political hero) on that matter.

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written by omarkhayyam, September 07, 2008 19:16:57

Pete,

i am comfortable seeing a 2 piece bikin clad woman as much as i am comfortable seeing a burkha clad woman or tudong in this case. Lets take for example a nun in her "tudong" its more conservative than many a tudong we see here in Malaysia.

anyway my malay wife doesnt wear a tudong and we get by life albeit some stares from those "holier than thou" jackasses .... who cares she is my woman and she is comfortable being herself

cheers

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written by faridib, September 07, 2008 19:18:30

Hijab is derived from the Arabic word 'hajaba', which means to conceal or to prevent from being seen.

It was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering; and it is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their he*** for hundreds of years too. Muslims who studied Islamic history will know that these( Judaism & Christianity)religions before Islam were from God & they were true at that time until Islam came. Thus it is obvious that Islam didn’t invent the head cover; instead Islam endorsed it.

The Quran says, “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty……And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms….” (24:30,31).
The KEY word is 'guard their modesty'.

The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested” (33:59).

This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection.

Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection.

It is fascinating to note that there is so much hue & cry over the tudung but nothing on the skimpy, bare here, bare there clothing. Many muslims are so scared (we can understand why the ignorance of the non-muslims) of the headcover so much so they'll keep harping on the same issue every now & then!

And especially for Super admin, I have this question - if you say you don the hat, does it state anywhere the word 'head' or 'hair'?

And pls don't block my comments as had previously been done on the tudung issue. If you subscribe to true'freedom', SHOW it!

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 19:21:33

We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEad (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

How come when a non doctor gives a medical advice by reading the medicl book is not accepted?

Can an indon construction man build a bunglow without an architect and a civil engineer but based oh his understanding?

why must you be a registered lawyer with the bar counsel before you can defence someone in court?

Can I be a captain of the airbus in an airline by just having training using a software on my pc?


I can ask these questions till the cow comes home... it will never end.



When I say to in english to a woman or a group of women " Please take care, I love you (all)"

If you translate this in Malay... "Tolong jaga diri, saya cinta (sayang/kasih) anda (semua)"


based of culture, situation during the words were said.. makes it a lot of different...

a father telling his daughter(s)
A Man to his wife
a man to his girlfriend

the words were said...
on bed
at the airport


people who said that were

malays
englishmen
indians



See why translations alone is not enough?

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written by kawaafi, September 07, 2008 19:32:54

Salam RPK,

Quran is reveal by Allah swt to Prophet Muhammad saw. He then show us how it should be implemented. Muslim women wear tudung not because Arab's culture but because that is how Prophet Muhammad saw shows us how to practically follow the Quran. Yes the quran may not say head or face, but does the wives of the prophet and women believers at that time wear clothes without covering their head..?

Perhaps its a norms for them to cover their he*** everyday, that also explain why Quran did not mention it as it should be understood.

Nevertheless, their (Prophet wives and women beleivers)practice should be followed as reflection to the verses revealed.

Is the tudung issue really matter..? well, to all Malaysian friend, with all due respect, it is very very important.

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written by A MI, September 07, 2008 20:18:45

Maybe as Kawaafi say the tudung is important.. because there are gomen department he*** who will promote women only if they are weraing the tudung!.....but there are far more important things like akhlak which in my opinion leaves much to be desired among us Muslims. Just look at the politicians behaviour..wheeling dealing cheating, make false accusations..

Let me ask you this, do you know how many tudung clad unmarried girls either go for abortions or even go the government clinics for delivery? It is apalling. I cringe everytime a non-muslim doctor asks me how come these tudung clad girls are promiscuous as some do not know who the father of the baby is. Why is it we Muslims harp on trivial issues? There are much much bigger and more pressing critical issues to deal with now.

Let this not be another case of not being able to see the woods for the trees.

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written by babihutan, September 07, 2008 20:20:11

Why muslim like to compared among themselve who is more muslim??
If too into islam, u will become racist, extremist, terrorist....dont know what type of "IST".....
Why?? Islam is good or bad?? If good,
Why muslim (as minority in some countries) like Thailand, Philippine, China doing killing and bombing?? Oh their governement suppressed them huh?
Now, talked about majority 0f muslim in middle east, same things lah, killing, bombing......

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written by PakItam, September 07, 2008 20:33:00

I must say I might have to agree with faridib and the dragonheart. When we go to court, even Shafee needs a lawyer and it takes doctors with MBBS or MD to prescribe drugs and only architects and engineers can sign plans when it comes to buildings.

As much as all of us can or are free enough to talk about the nitty gritty of religion and post our opinions, can we let the professionals handle this??

Quranic Tafsir Scholars, Islam jurists and jurisprudence experts, Hadith scholars anyone??? Please present your 6-year, 7-year study effort here.

Pete, please stick to your petrafications, and as much as we all love you, please let the scholars debate this. Let's stick to what the priorities are in religion: justice, civil society, transparency, good governance, accountability.

And people, if girls wear the tudung out of their sincerity, who are we to judge them? Let the first person with the knowledge of sincerity in all these tudunged-girl heart cast the first stone.

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written by pillars, September 07, 2008 21:51:53

Lets be realistic, people wear different at the old days because simply no fashion at that time. Most of them wear just simple cloth, robe like, be it the Prophet, Jesus or Budha Gautama. So are the women. Mother Mary also wear kind of 'tudung'. The catholic nuns also still wear 'tudung' up to now.

So wear tudung or not its a personal choice. More important is the heart, not tudung or the length of the dress.

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:02:31

We DO NOT interpret the Quran. May I suggest something much simpler? Why not we just read it? If we look at the Quran in its arabic and then look at the translated words just a little carefully, we will understand it. You DONT EVEN have to know Arabic. For example the arabic word for HEad (kepala) is NEVER mentioned in any of the verses quoted above. Neither are the arabic words for face and hair. So how do the translators include head, face and hair? Someone must explain this.

How come when a non doctor gives a medical advice by reading the medicl book is not accepted?

Can an Indon construction man build a bungalow without an architect and a civil engineer but based oh his understanding?

why must you be a registered lawyer with the bar counsel before you can defend someone in court?

Can I be a captain of the airbus in an airline by just having training using a software on my pc?


I can ask these questions till the cow comes home... it will never end.



When I say to in english to a woman or a group of women " Please take care, I love you (all)"

If you translate this in Malay... "Tolong jaga diri, saya cinta (sayang/kasih) anda (semua)"


based of culture, situation during the words were said.. makes it a lot of different...

a father telling his daughter(s)
A Man to his wife
a man to his girlfriend

the words were said...
on bed
at the airport


people who said that were practicing

Malays culture
Englishmen culture
Indians culture

would it make a different when you literally translate their words without interpreting them?

See why translations alone is not enough?

Again there are many sanctions and commands in the Quran needs Hadist support and this is reference to the Hadist is provided in the quran itself...


YM RPK, I do not say your translation is wrong but I totally disagree the way you try to justify what had been practice almost 1500 years were incorrect...

What you wrote here is making the non-pious Muslims in a disequilibrium state of mind and you also mislead the non learned non Muslims about Islam...

I am very sad...

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:11:34

Allah Ta’ala commands the wives of the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) in the noble Qur’aan, thus, ‘And stay within your homes.’ (Ahzaab). Allaamah Zaahid al-Kawthari mentions in his book, ‘Hijaab al-Mar-atul Muslimah’ this is an address to the wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), so the women besides them will be addressed to a greater extent.’ The reason being that Allah will not choose just any evil or bad women for the marriage of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). Allah will choose the best of women for this purpose. So, when this is the case that the most pure women of the Ummah are being addressed in this manner, then those women who are junior to them are addressed to a greater extent.

Today, the aspect of Hijaab is misunderstood greatly. The Niqaab is becoming a fashion, people haven’t understood the aspect of Hijaab. The actual object of Hijaab is concealment and to stay indoors. The object of Hijaab is not to just don the veil and parade the shopping malls and shows where there is intermingling of sexes. Wearing the veil is not a license for coming out of the house as it is misunderstood, but only under extreme necessity if a woman has to come out of her house, then she must don the Hijaab (veil) and under this context does this Aayat fit, i.e. O Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam)! Instruct your wives, your daughters an the believing women to draw over them their outer garment (veils).’ Otherwise, the law for a woman is she has to remain indoors as we have quoted the Aayat previously, ‘remain indoors’.

What we have understood, thus far, is that a woman must remain indoors at all times, and only due to extreme necessity she is allowed to come out of her house, donning the veil.

What is worse is that today the women adopt al-Tabarruj (i.e. exposure) when they come out. And majority of the time when they come out of their houses, it is without necessity. In doing so, they are going against the book of Allah in many ways, a) They are coming of their houses without necessity where as the Qur’aan commands them to remain indoors (as we have mentioned earlier), b) They are exposing their faces whereas the Qur’aan has commanded them to draw their veils (as mentioned earlier) and Allah Ta’ala and says in the Qur’aan, ‘and abstain from al-Tabarruj (exposure).

Imam Qurtubi (RA) mentions the meaning of al-Tabarruj after gathering all the views of the previous commentators of the Qur’aan. He says, in short, al-Tabarruj means a woman exposing her beauties to men. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi vol.14 pg.175; Cairo)

It is a well-known fact that from all the beauties of a woman, her face is the greatest. So, Allah is commanding her not to expose her face more seriously. So, if a woman does not don the veil when she comes out of the house (even when it is extremely necessary), she will be grossly disobeying the command of Allah Ta’ala and thereby earning the displeasure of Allah. What a greater can there be in disobeying the command of Allah that earning his displeasure! Earning the displeasure of Allah is worst thing a person can ever earn as this will lead to his destruction.

May Allah Ta’ala give us all the ability to understand the reality of Hijaab and observe it according to its requisites.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai, www.ask-imam.com
FATWA DEPT.

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written by guevarayu, September 07, 2008 22:19:15

*my 2 cents would be: human nature is as such, we need to believe something is logical. we are design to understand things which are humanly understandable. we would be more convince of things which are tangible as opposed to intangible no? by saying this, one out of 6 Rukun Iman, Beriman kepada Kitab, and that would be Al-Quran (as it is deemed to be the complete 'manual' after Torah, Zabur & Bible) is more 'convincing' in this context (and please dont get me wrong). as it been said, it is a book of God's words, we should refer to it by pass any hadith no? Al-Quran could never err. as we are all human, WE bound to err instead, same goes to all imam, ustaz, ustazah etc. tho, they are more 'educated' in this subject matter than most of us. but that doesnt mean they would be right 100% all the time. we need to make our own 'homework' by falling back to Al-Quran for research. plus, a famous doctor & orator in Comparative Religion studies, Zakir Naik, once said, Al-Quran is a form of the best Arabic literature. by its nature, literature means to be decifer to a form much simpler to understand. and thats that.*

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 22:23:10

To wear tudung or not?
To cover the face?
To cover the breasts, bosoms?
To cover the thighs?
To cover, to cover, to cover
some went undercover
Some discover
Some never discovers but follows blindly
Phark, use our brains lah, Park lah.

I can criticise the Catholics here but not the muslims because they are so narrow minded!

The catholics says they should not wear condoms but reproduce simply. Go follow and bring misery to yourself lah!

Don't cover your face in the desert is stupid lah.

I once work in UAE and the desert storms can be very damaging lah. Even your car paint is lost overnight.

That is why you need to cover your face, but don't do it everywhere.

Come onlah! Think , Think Think and Think for yourself.

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written by The dragonheart, September 07, 2008 22:32:00

Dear cheemengwong,

Muslims are not narrow minded but God fearing. The Hijab is not about sand storm but about piousity to God. Hijab is about Awrah (Aurat). Only Jahiliah like you try to reason things to environment and situations.. You are Not a muslim so you are not a God fearing human.

The awrah of a woman is the areas of her body, which must be covered. The respected scholars from past and present have differed in whether the veil should cover the hands and face, or whether it is sufficient to cover everything, save the hands and face.

Aisha (RA) reported that once her sister, Asma (RA) visited her in finery while the Prophet (SAW) was at home. He (SAW) turned away from her and said, "O Asma, when a woman reaches puberty it is not lawful for her to uncover any part of her body except this." He (SAW) then pointed to his face and hand palm.

(Abu Dawud)

The above narration is one of the most commonly cited as proof for leaving the face and hands uncovered. The main consideration of this opinion must be what constitutes the face and the hands. The above statement clearly illustrates that the hand is part of the body, which extends below the wrist bone.

The definition of what constitutes the face can be found in another tradition of the Prophet (SAW).

He (SAW) pointed from his forehead to his chin and from his cheek to the cheek. (Abu Dawud)

It may be of importance to note that ears must also be covered because they are not a part of the face, but are a part of the head as he (SAW), said,

"The two ears are a part of the head."

(Tirmithi)

This opinion also does not allow for the uncovering of the neck and breast. The khimar must cover the entire head, INCLUDING THE EARS, ALL OF THE HAIR, come down from the head to COVER THE NECK AND THE BOSOM. This is clear in the statement of Allah (SWT),

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc., and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks, and bossoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment ..."

(An-Nur 24:31)

Also among the things that must be covered are the clothes that a woman wears IN HER HOME. It is not sufficient for a Muslim woman to go out in PANTS or a SKIRT, a LONG SHIRT, or even a SHALWAR KAMEESE and a khimar, because many times the clothes that a woman wears in the house are themselves adornments.

As the above verse states, Allah (SWT) FORBIDS the believing women from displaying her adornments, except to those people whom are clearly named out in (the remaining part of) the verse (An Nur 24:31). Allah (SWT) also commands His Prophet (SAW) to tell the women in the following verse,

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

(Al-Ahzab 33:59)

Even though the hijab is not merely a covering dress, equally as important ,it is behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public; there are certain standards of dress however, "Conditions of Hijab", that must be maintained.

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written by shamadz72, September 07, 2008 22:54:16

Dear Pete,

Did you see anything in the Al-Quran where it told us to cover women C-L-I-T-S? (Sorry I have to write it that way to avoid censorship).

So does it means our women don't have to cover that part?

How about for man covering their D-I-C-K? Any verse on that? Come on lah bro.. that is why our great prophet Muhammad SAW was sent to us so that we can have a clear idea on how to do everything the right way. He is the living Quran as an example for us to follow.

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written by franco, September 07, 2008 22:57:13

Dear Pete,

I understand that you are just putting the comments from someone with regards to tudung. It is not your interpretation and the interpretation of the person (the email) is totally wrong and has gone out of context.

The scholars of Islam have long in agreement about women attire and no one dispute that the women must cover their body except the face, the hand and the foot. It should be covered until that the shape of the body is not seen. But women are also human being which always confused and tend to go against the order of Allah with the assistance of the Syaitan. That is why we see women in tudung of various style and the shape of the body is exposed although covered. It is more for the sake of fashion rather than obeying the Almighty.

They find all sort of excuses, logic and interpretation of the clear Al Quran verses. They pick part of the verse, combine with another and so forth so that what they belief can be defended and justifiable. They also interpret from purely the translation alone without understanding the arabic language itself. Whereas there are many arabic terms that is not available in other language especially Bahasa Melayu.

Anyway I would suggest that you stop bringing the detail issue of fiqh but remained in highlighting the wrong doing of Muslims in general especially those muslim politicians. Highlighting the hypocrisies amongst the muslims with the purpose of reminding us so that we returned to the right path, is much better.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:24:33

I am not going to admonish or go into a debate with anyone. I am writing what I see ok...

Not all Muslims fears God, just like Christians, Catholics, Buddhists and others.

If Muslims fears God, then Malaysia would be the epitome of Islam are we?

Corruption here, there everywhere
Step father raping step children.
Rapist murdering their victims
Scandals involving millions of ringgit are reported

Just don't be a hypocrite and pretend to know what is right and wrong in God's eyes.

If we can't love our own neighbour, how can we profess we fear and love God we can't see?

Prak lah.

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written by richardwong, September 07, 2008 23:25:41

Quran: surah 7 verse 26 . . . .the raiment (ie covering) of righteousness is better.
Surah 49, Verse 13 . . . the most honourable is one who is righteous (who has At-Taqwa)

Believers and non-believers, please accept that there are priority deeds and conduct and lesser such as superficial compliance to wearing of tudung and the like. Why emphasize on the lesser values instead of honesty at work and leisure and home, business conduct without abnormal profit, less business inkling during Ramadan and more display of sales of food and drinks at “give-away” price to aid the community, etc to inculcate the spirit of restrain and not “30 days celebration” for each fasting day.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:28:39

I was just thinking our loud, perhaps if God forbid human women to show off their face, breasts, neck, thigh, God would be wise to create a shell just like the tortoise for human beings...

No offence to any human beings dead or alive... it is just my thought. Actually I am quite ignorant why women cannot show their assets and men can!

How unfair.

Prick lah.

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written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 23:35:14

On Fridays, I observed that Muslims going to and from mosques do not need to wear helmet... is this lawful? Or there is a law that says Fridays no need to wear helment. God will protect accidents?

They say if they bring helmets to mosque afterwards losts! Incredible. We pray to God to be good and holy and yet helmet can lost. Perplexing lah.

Even shoes outside also lost! Most prefers slippers only.

Also parking is everywhere and illegal parking becomes legal. How come double standard and no respect for human law but say God's law must follow!

Really mind blogglinglah!

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written by shamadz72, September 07, 2008 23:49:32

written by cheemengwong, September 07, 2008 | 23:35:14

They say if they bring helmets to mosque afterwards losts! Incredible. We pray to God to be good and holy and yet helmet can lost. Perplexing lah.

Dear Mr Chee,

I bet you are the type of person who will always leave around their wallet on a chair in church or (at which ever house of worshipping you believe into) when going to toilet to ease themselves because you have faith in your god. I bet you also don't lock your car when you park within the visinity of that holy place

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written by alpal78, September 08, 2008 00:17:06

Sorry Pete but I'm disappointed in you for publishing this article, not only because I disagree with the opinion published but more importantly, this article creates division within Pakatan Rakyat at a time when we most needs to remain united. This article is as good as the Ahmad "Chinese squatter" statement, in that it can potentially split the BN along racial lines. This article can split the opposition along religious/secular lines.

There are clear fault lines between PAS and DAP and DSAI understood it himself which is why there was little mention of religion in the March 8 election. As the saying goes, let's focus on our commonality and not our differences. You know that this opinion will alienate most PAS supporters and their comments will in turn invite refutations from DAP counterparts (both can be unnecessarily nasty), and you can see this happening already by just going through the comments. So in terms of how this adds value to the opposition quest to win back our country, it is absolutely useless.

Sure you have the freedom of opinion to say what you want, but you have a higher role to play in the opposition machinery than to just defend freedom of speech. We have come to expect more from our hero RPK, and judged against those standards this article is a huge let down.

Sure you can claim that you didn’t write this piece but publishing the piece knowing full well the divisive consequences it will have is equally reprehensible, at least to me.

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written by samesamemam, September 08, 2008 00:18:50

All this talk reminds me of the ongoing debate between Catholics and Protestants on the Immaculate Conception or virgin birth. Was Mary, the mother of Jesus, a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus. The Catholics say ‘yes’, she was a virgin and they got hundreds of references from the holy texts, translated from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to justify their position; the Protestants say ‘no’, she was not a virgin and they have another hundreds of references from the holy texts translated from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to justify their position. This debate has been going on for a long time and still is. It won’t end.

The wisest thing I heard so far was from a young Christian, baffled by the debates and the passion behind this type of religious rhetoric…”What does it matter if Mary was a virgin or not? Why the **** are they making such a big issue of such a small tissue?”

I think these religious debates, as with many others, reflect our sexual problems and hang-ups, no matter which side of the political fence we stand.

My point is that these types of discussions won’t get us anywhere. When we try to mix religion, politics and sexuality to make a point or win a debate, nobody wins (the women almost always loses) cos there’ll be somebody out there who will defend to death that his is the biggest…

Lets focus folks…

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 00:18:58

I keep my wallet in my pocket.
I go around town with my helmet irrespective if it is Monday or Friday.
I lock it on my bike and don't give any excuse for not wearing it.
The police will summon me if I don't.
I never give any execuses and try to hide under name of religion.
And I never lock my car irrespective of where I park. I am driving around in a 1984 nissan with no aircon, no rear seats and my key is always in the car. Nobody wants it. It becomes a burden if they steals it.

The policemen still flags me down just to see if they can extract some money every 6 months or so if they hve a chance.

What visinity? Is it virginity you are talking? I lost it about 50 years ago.


Don't believe me? Come and see it yourself.

Prak Lah.

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written by LucidMind, September 08, 2008 00:31:44

Yeah right!

And this will be the consequence after the girls and women give in to the "modesty code":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7593765.stm

My dear female friends and their love ones(of all religion and political parties), wake up, voice out. Evil thrive in darkness and silence. Let there be light (your gaze and mind) and voices from you.

Women should not be subserviant to men. They should not be a "second class citizen".

and o ya, in case you wonder, I am a man.

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 00:37:48

I walk around town and see...

Massage Parlours

Sports Dodo
Maimun 4 d
Three plus 1 Ta Ma chai
Where Mulims and non Muslims alike spents their grocery and school fees to gamble.

Video Arcades where school children ponteng sekolah to lepak

Kuda Arcades where hundreds of dollars are losts... controlled by tri*** who have protection from the authorities...otherwise how can they operate?

**** shops inside 5 star hotels around the city...

Casinos in Pahang operating 24 x 7 buidling a culture and lifestyle of decadence..

All this in a Muslim land where the people in power would stop at nothing to arrest, scare and intimidate anyone who dares to raise an issue like tudung in the name of Islam.

What are the righteous Muslims leaders and politicians of this land going to do about it?

Please do it now, otherwise forever shut the big mouth.

BIG HYPOCRITES ONLY

Please lah, don't major on the minor. Major on the major and get the fundamentals right.

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written by alpal78, September 08, 2008 01:04:28

Pete I was perhaps a bit harsh in my previous comments when I said

"Sure you have the freedom of opinion to say what you want, but you have a higher role to play in the opposition machinery than to just defend freedom of speech. We have come to expect more from our hero RPK, and judged against those standards this article is a huge let down"

Nobody knows your intention for publishing this article, it it was just to air off some secular steam, then I stand by my earlier rebuke.

However it just occured to me that you may a higher objective afterall. One of the fears of Pakatan is that come Wednesday when DSAI attends court, the bail order will be revoked and he will be put behind bars pending trial. Surely there will be no defections if the PM in waiting is behind bars, afterall, most BN defectors are defecting because they want to be on the winning side.

Now if DSAI goes behind bar, the BN government can still say that it was a standard court decision. BUT if you go into ISA in the same week too (because of this article...I sure it's not too long now before they march you over), then it will be difficult for BN to claim that all are standard procedure. Revoking DSAI's bail and sending RPK to ISA in the same week is just too big to not be a political conspiracy.

So you are either sacrificing yourself so that DSAI will remain on bail so that he can affect the changes necessary (and of course free you later) or that you are hoping that if both of you go in, then the rakyat will rise up.

A bit of conspiract theory I know, but that's only because I am trying my best to give you the benefit of the doubt for publishing this article.

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written by chipon, September 08, 2008 02:03:44

Please Pete,

We really respect u for your great deeds of trying to work towards better governance of this country. You are an important part in unifying all of us in our move to rectify the problems of this country's leadership.

But please..please don't produce something that can disunite the unity of pakatan rakyat. The muslims support Pakatan Rakyat because they are damn sick of UMNO's mismanagement and corrupt practices. Not because of wanting Malaysia to become more secularise than what it has been all this while.

To the Muslims who has been supporting the Opposition all this while, even during DSAI was still in UMNO, we hate UMNO because it does not support Islam. UMNO has NEVER supported Islam all this while. The true Islam.

So please don't write articles that will divide Pakatan Rakyat.

And if u want to write something about Islam, please DISCUSS it with religious scholars first. Not to say that u have to agree with them. BUT DO DISCUSS IT FIRST BEFORE U SAY ANYTHING!

Hail Pete! Hail Islam!

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written by renoir, September 08, 2008 02:40:25

My first understanding (and here I must say I know next to nothing about Islam) at the words "so that the woman be known" was exactly what Rozlan says - that it meant the woman be known as a Muslim. And another reader is right in that the tudung is of a Judeo-Christian heritage, so it's natural that "people of the Book" share the same cultural/religious customs (e.g. in Corinthians Paul also insisted that the woman covers her face in Church).

I'm a bit troubled by the line that the tudung was advised for "protection." Does it mean the those who don't wear are fair game for harrassment, molestation, or rape? Given the fact that many Middle Eastern women of all ethnic groups did NOT wear the scarf - perhaps implied by the condemnations of loose women and idolators in the Bible - were these women then oppressed by religious people? I think there's probaby some element of that, but of course the sentence about "protection" could also mean that GENERALLY most people tend to see non-tudung women as immoral, i.e., women who actually INVITE sexual attention. Thus, the admonition to wear one.

I think it's ok for RPK to write his view of the tudung - Islam and indeed most established religions are surely not so weak that it could be undermined by different interpretations or even outright criticisms. Moeover, many readers here have already shown that they don't take everything published as gospel - even if the views are from RPK.

Personally, some of my best experiences are with tudung women - many gave up their seats for me at LRT or buses, and a tudunged medical assistant was the only cheerful AND helpful person I met at Sunway Medical.

LChuah

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written by beyonce, September 08, 2008 04:56:42

salam pete, i think this tread is not suitable for all this while. Let's focus to our agenda to prevail the misconduct of beend members and others which more important in provide knowledgeable to us. Hopefully, this tread can be discuss as soon we seize power from beend...that's one thing for sure..perhaps this tread won't divide people's coalition in any means...we are already united as shown in last election and against the ruling party...Let's stand still..Peace!!!long live PR and RPK!!!

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written by A MI, September 08, 2008 07:19:54

Nevertheless, their (Prophet wives and women beleivers)practice should be followed as reflection to the verses revealed.

If good Muslims are to emulate the Prophet (PBUH) and his wives then it should be a personal choice. Please remember the Hadith has been recorded by various men and there are that many more interpreatations. Why go so far we have at least 4 main mazhabs which have differing views.

Just learn to respect one another. Frindly advice is OK but any holier than thou attitude should be avoided.

And alpal78 I think you have deciphered the higher reason for this article for me. I think you are spot on.

read this again people

Now if DSAI goes behind bar, the BN government can still say that it was a standard court decision. BUT if you go into ISA in the same week too (because of this article...I sure it's not too long now before they march you over), then it will be difficult for BN to claim that all are standard procedure. Revoking DSAI's bail and sending RPK to ISA in the same week is just too big to not be a political conspiracy.

So you are either sacrificing yourself so that DSAI will remain on bail so that he can affect the changes necessary (and of course free you later) or that you are hoping that if both of you go in, then the rakyat will rise up.

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written by grandmarquis, September 08, 2008 08:03:45

What a waste of time for such debate because the debate is merely the whims and fancies of the debater self interpretation of the Quran. If you ask 10 person to do the same, you will get 10 different versions of the so call Tudung Debate.

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written by A MI, September 08, 2008 08:50:26

grandmarquis, September 08, 2008 | 08:03:45
........... the debate is merely the whims and fancies of the debater self interpretation of the Quran. If you ask 10 person to do the same, you will get 10 different versions of the so call Tudung Debate.

Granted. I am glad somebody has said this. So interpretations can vary too right.

Someone wise once said..there is no such thing as right or wrong but everything is a point of view..a perspective.

If we can all realise this and we don't have to become all frisky and bicker.....

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written by Krepot, September 08, 2008 08:54:18

Putting on a tudung does not make ANY difference,
if you are bad, you are bad,
If you are good and don't wear a tudung,
you are still good.

It is YOU that makes a difference,
not the tudung.
The tudung is just a piece of cloth.

Don't make such as fuss about it,
and don't blame the Qu'ran for it!

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written by ROBERTNGTG, September 08, 2008 09:22:57

I thought I would share this ‘exchange’ with you while at the same time allow Syed Hamid to, again, scream that I am a ‘blasphemous Muslim of the worst kind’ and threaten me with detention under the Internal Security Act. These threats do turn me on so, and at times even gives me an orgasm, so keep them coming Syed.

RPK, HABIS LAH YOU. INI SAI PUNYA ORANG MESTI GARAM SAMA LU. THOSE IN POWER WILL ALWAYS WANT TO DICTATE TO THE PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD BELIEVE, WHO THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND WHAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE. THEY WILL SURE AS HELL OPPRESS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DARE TO STAND UP AND SPEAK UP FOR THE TRUTH.

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 09:33:56

I am glad something this minor can invoke so many opinions.

I remember an Engineer with Tudung was raped and murdered enroute to work in Klang.

It is not the tudung, it is men not able to contain their lusts.

It is man who cannot think right
It is man who justify every evil they possess
It is man who cannot read and understand the spirit of the word.
It is man who don't want to walk the extra mile to think for an extra second.
It is man who cannot see the trees from the forests
It is man whose mindset is simplicity and can't dwell into complexity of things.
It is man who wants to conquer the weaker sex
It is man who wants to impose their will on others
It is man who don't repent and continue with their evil desires.
It is man who don't read God's words.
It is man who is totally inadequate in the flesh.
It is man who gives in to their desires and fancy when it suits them.
It is man who put God to shame.
It is man who neither possess the will and courage to do good.
....

why blame it on the breasts, thighs, the clevage, the lips, the eyes, the tudung... and even the vagina. Is the vagina not covered fully?

Please lah.

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written by Panca Indera, September 08, 2008 09:58:03

Bismillah
Dear Anti Struggle for Truth

ref: What is the waiting period between conversion to Islam and entitlement to full benefits at the afterlife shindig?

No wait period. Just say, believe and act on “ There is no God except ALLAH the one and only and Muhammad was His LAST Messenger.

Ref: I suspect that the inventory of virgins is getting a bit thin as a result of the recent spate of martyrdom operations, but if I’m sitting on a airplane and hear an outbreak of "allahu akbar", I’m gonna want to get my fair share of the action once we arrive in paradise! (it’s 72, right?)

Your suspicion is based on your ignorance, no doubt. For a believer, when he is granted the abode of the heaven, everything that was forbidden by God in this life is available and allowed in the next life (Its REAL! And everybody there will be in their physical prime and handsome looking)

If your wish was to be with VIRGINS (houries) then you can have with any numbers you desired, 72 or 720 or 7200, limited only by your desire and I’m not even a serious scholar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houris.

note: To be in the present of the AlMighty ALLAH and HIS Glory is more satisfying than to be with 72 virgins, wouldn't you say?

Does that answer your limited knowledge, Mister Islamophobic?
From Anti Ignorant/Arrogance

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written by almier, September 08, 2008 10:13:39

Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Sura 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Comment : This contradicts the meaning of the verse. As I said the verse does NOT mention face at all. As I have pointed out, the women are supposed to be identified and differentiated from the other women (who also wore veils and covered their faces like the Christians and the Jews). This means their faces had to be exposed. But the hadeeth says the women were told to cover their faces. The authenticity of this hadeeth needs to be checked carefully.
*************

This is a bad presumption from your friend RPK, muslims know that the Prophet hadeeth must be taken into consideration when interpreting the Qur'an. And I think if your friend is commpared to Imam Bukhari "thoroughness" in compiling the "Sahih" is like companing an ant and an elephant.
******************

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.
**************

Comment : Why not? The Quran says that we must think of God ALL THE TIME. The Quran says 'zikrulaahi-akbar' which means 'the constant remembrance (zikir) of God is better'. A woman (and men too) should remember God when she goes about her housework, her gardening, her driving, her swiming, her job etc. God can accept her zikir or remembrance of Him anytime. That is why the remembrance of God (God consciousness) is greater 'zikrulaahi-akbar'.
*************
Again RPK your friend to lose focus here, he is mixing up to things into one, that souhldn't be the case. Muslims try for "the best" Ibadah not for mere "satistactory". Through a simple observation I would say that those women who wear tudung remeber Allah than those who don't (of course you can say that this is for Allah to judge and not human.) But Islam as religion of based of "adl" (justice) requires Islam must be seen, not thoough mere spiculation.
******************

Looking into the comments on the articles, the person who tried to point this sentence out was ridiculed. So that is why I sent this e-mail so that I would get your attention. Thank you for your time.

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written by zza11, September 08, 2008 10:30:35

Suddenly someone name Pete is able to unearth the real message about women veil in Islam based solely on the English translation of the Holy Quran English. Due to his English proficiency he was able to point out the fact that other learned Muslims and even the companions of the Prophet had failed to see for more than 1400 years. Wow! Pete, you are either a genius or simply crazy.

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written by cheemengwong, September 08, 2008 10:56:25

Are virgins in Heaven like kentucky drumsticks? You can have as many as you want so long God allows?

Park lah

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written by gogsard, September 08, 2008 11:45:39

Pete, I disagreed with your "friend". And I think the response here have side track from your original intention, am I right ?

Pete, why are you publishing this which is not yours and as you mention "ridicule" ? Are you testing bald head Albar intelligence ?

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written by Rhan, September 08, 2008 11:53:44

Dear LChuah,

I know you are with good intention but I think your last paragraph is as drawing a snake and adding feet.

Just like some statement from the western commentator of the Olympic, “China win the goal again on this event but there are still millions of Chinese living under poverty.”

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written by BobSam, September 08, 2008 12:01:29

Rozlan, September 07, 2008 | 15:52:04, adibi, ZZA11,

Rozlan, you may not be aware of it, but Christian women had to cover their he*** before entering a church. Some Christians still do that, viz the more conservative Christians. Jewish women also cover their he***. It's been a practice from the Middle East from the beginning of time. Closer to home, in India & Sri Lanka, the same thing applies. From Sikhs to Christians, they all cover their head (but remove any hats) when they go into their place of worship.
For Sikhs, the men also have to cover their he***.

Pete & his buddy's understanding of the Holy Book seems to have merit. Kindly do not insult or belittle him. If you believe he is wrong, point out where in scripture they have gone "serong", but please refrain from insulting or making police reports against them becoz u r of a different opinion.

Grow up, its time you matured. There was a time when u needed milk. Now that you are an adult, its time to eat rice (bread), so behave like an adult.

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written by Jit Dharma, September 08, 2008 12:12:50

Absence of compassion for humanity indicates an inability to love God.Don't trust such men and women. Learn to love God.It is the simplest thing. The rest will follow.

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written by Jit Dharma, September 08, 2008 12:19:24

One desires to see love for God in action. Seeing it, even a child would recognise it.

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written by renoir, September 08, 2008 12:40:39

Some really thoughtful comments here!!!

gogsard wrote:
>Pete, why are you publishing this which is not yours and as you mention "ridicule" ? Are you testing bald head Albar intelligence?]]

However, though the replies in bold are from his friend, publication often (though not always)indicate some measure of affinity with the views published. Still, EVEN IF THE VIEWS ARE RPK's, not everyone would simply agree to what is said. The disagreements by readers here are a good reason why freedom of speech is seldom a danger to the state - readers can reason out for themselves (that, incidentally, is also why the mainstream media have been ineffective - the more blatant the attempts at view-shaping, the more they're rejected).

Rhan wrote:
>I know you are with good intention but I think your last paragraph is as drawing a snake and adding feet.]]

Hahaha! The comment isn't to support or to subtly criticize the tudung - but to address the general belief that it plays a decisive part in a person's morality. Some wearers might be wearing it out of compulsion, while others wear it because of genuine modesty and/or religious necessity. So the point is that we should not be prejudiced against the wearer either way. Though, within the topic discussed here, this could be "adding legs to the snake" it is not so in the actual situation out there (in the real world of how the tudung is perceived).

Bobsam wrote:
> Christian women had to cover their he***]]

Following Paul's injunction in Corinthians, yes. Some people have considered Paul to be an MCP.

LChuah

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written by renoir, September 08, 2008 13:11:28

Here's the passage:

>But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman who prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered, dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she was shaven (I Corinthians 11:3-5).

I wrote:
>that GENERALLY most people tend to see non-tudung women as immoral, i.e., women who actually INVITE sexual attention.]]

In fact, during biblical times, most prostitutes - and loose women - were unveiled, though some did wear some kind of scarf to show some respectability.

LChuah

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written by BobSam, September 08, 2008 13:12:18

1 Corinthians 11:5-7 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[a] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

LChuah might have her point that Paul was an MCP, but nevertheless it is written in the early New Testament church, that women should cover their he*** when praying. Again, he could have been using societal standards. Nevertheless, please read the exact verse (the verbiage) from the Bible, compare it with what RPK wrote. Every woman who prays should cover her head, else she dishonor's the head. Man on the other hand does not cover his head becoz he will dishonor God since he was made in the image & glory of God. WoW!

I will not expand on the previous few para's, but please think deeply about it.
Please pray for enlightenment. Please pray for understanding.
Ask & ye shall receive.

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written by gogsard, September 08, 2008 13:35:16

Renoir, my concerns are from the tacktical point of view.

I'm very sure RPK knows very well about "Islam and Aurat" and I think he do not require 3 party to help him with the letter. And the debate is just part of the scheme.

To put it into perspective base on incidents past few days/weeks/months and the comming 16 September, it just doesnt add it.

I sense RPK is on to something. I think he is looking at of Syed Albar, Jakim and the entire bandwagon reaction. Just like u said "that, incidentally, is also why the mainstream media have been ineffective - the more blatant the attempts at view-shaping, the more they're rejected"

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written by renoir, September 08, 2008 14:13:49

Godsard, besides the political implications, it could be that the "friend" is a well-known Imam and that would turn things upside down, especially if the piece is considered an "insult" to Islam and Syed Albar and others wanted RPK to reveal the author's name!

LChuah

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written by afidie, September 08, 2008 15:49:18

I don't know why Pete wrote this article in the 1st place. Islam has been tolerance towards other religion and has never been commenting on other religion practises, esp those muslim in Malaysia. Out of nowhere, some one try to provoke us muslim into this debate! what's the purpose? for us to react so we can be blamed as a 'little taliban'???? C'mon... just leave us practising our way of life, the Islam life and we let you do your part!

So pls, pls do not write something you 're not good at. As someone said, Islam cannot solely be interpreted based on logical thinking, as it's more than that!

And to those non-muslim, stay out of this! It's none of your biz in the 1st place! Would you be happy to hear someone insult you religion practise??? be more sensitive, if you want to live happily in Malaysia!

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written by Vik, September 08, 2008 19:25:17

Pete is right. So is his friend. All who disagree can eat my shorts. Screw the tudung. Its a product of male egoism. Nothing else. I can't believe people actually hide behind the so called book and make excuses for it. As you can see, there is no mention of the tudung in the book. BUT NOOOOO. You guys cant accept it. You HAVE to follow that interpretation of it, simply because you're scared to question it. I have lo*** of muslim friends, but to be honest, even though a few of them are quite religious, even they have arguements between themselves about what was actually said in the Koran. This is good. So that you dont blindly follow what the imam in the mosque says, but what you believe is allah's true message. Well done RPK. But to be honest, many of your readers still lack the basic initiative to find out what exactly they pray for/to. idiots never change.

once again, the tudung was a product of male supremacy, and egoism. if you cant see that, then your mind is filled with clouded judgement.

WHY CANT WE DISCUSS THIS HERE?
There is a reason why the Turkish government has banned the use of the tudung in Universities/Governement Proceedings/etc. Its because they sat down and analyzed if it is the right thing to do. Its that they looked at the Koran and realized that, if you interpret it, meaningfully, there is no use for this piece of cloth.

grow up. sheeesh!

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written by Vik, September 08, 2008 19:30:59

Dei afidie,

You guys want to implement Islamic law in a secular country. Even if you havent admitted it, you'd probably agree to it. Once you try and implement YOUR religion on OUR lives, your religion comes into public scrutiny. Its as simple as that. Practice your religion. Please. Go right ahead.

In some middle eastern countries, we cant even bring pictures of our gods into the country. Its blasphemy. Is this religious tolerance? One of my relatives had her little statues that she prays to THROWN into the bin by the customs in one of these countries.

You said that it isnt the business of the non-muslims... Go screw yourself. Twice. But you'll never change.

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written by marsyal, September 08, 2008 22:29:19

Rozlan,

For your information, christians and jewish in those times do wear tudung. That's why in western movies, Mary (Mariam) is pictured wearing veil covering her hair. Even in churches, Mary is potrayed wearung veil.

Back in the early 80s, I could still see elderly ladies in Catholic churches wearing veil whenever when they entered the church but of course they took it off once the Sunday mass is over.

I took me more than 10 years after becoming muslim to finally put on the veil. I don't think it's oppression to women, I think by wearing it, I do appreciate of getting more "bergaya" at home since I can't do outside and wanting to look good for my husband. To me, it's also a reminder everytime I step out of the house that I'm a muslim and being one, there's "adeen" (way of life) that one should steadfast to.

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written by Muhammad Irfan b. Mohd Nor, September 09, 2008 05:58:09

Non-Muslims would never understand.

Muslims live to serve God. Life on earth is to prepare for the hereafter life.

And Islam is a way of life. There's even Islamic ways that even teaches us how to eat and drink. Basic stuff.

Muslim has never question Non-Muslim why they serve their Tokong Gods with fruits that at the end will just rot. And its even mind-blogging that some even serve their Gods with plastic fruits. But the Muslims in Malaysia has NEVER question this act to their Non-muslim friends. And thats we respect it.

So do respect the Muslims as well.

The Quran is the one that guides and governs us. Just like any form of Law that guides and governs its people. Because its proven that people can't always be enlighten by themeselves to not do the wrong things.

We as brothers have to make sure that all our brothers and sisters do not commit any wrongdoings. Not just embracing 'mind your own business' phrase.

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written by Peter Chan, September 09, 2008 07:26:52

Muhammad Irfan b. Mohd Nor,

I agree with you. I am against any people who criticize muslim wearing tudung. I am totally against discrimination.

But I would like to ask UMNO to stop building mosque in chinese area. Because there is no Chinese going to Mosque. What is the reason that the goverment is using Malaysian's tax payer money to build mosque near chinese area?

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written by afidie, September 09, 2008 10:57:02

Dey Vik,
I guess you miss the point here, the last word I wrote in my prev post was 'Malaysia', and you know, I don't 100% agree with what being practise by most of the mid east countries as well.

Pls do not generalise everything that happened to you. I didn't say that Christian approve the act of Genocide on Muslim in Bosnia by the Serbs, coz I know it's the human itself who 'misuse' religion to justify their act! If you're able to separate this 2 things, you'll be fine.

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written by LACOBRA, September 09, 2008 18:00:29

Wear the Tudung if you may but please don't drive to compromise road safety! Wearing the Tudung with the side vission partially impaired is like horses racing with blinkers. A hazard to all motorist & pedestrians.

Whatever the interpretation was made for...cars weren't made then.

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written by Free Malaysia, September 09, 2008 22:26:57

Dear RPK,

Great article!!! Cant stop myself laughing.

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written by Proarte, September 10, 2008 02:56:23

Simple question.

Has there been a deterioration in any index of morality in the Islamic community in Malaysia since the widespread use of the Tudung?

Has sexuality promiscuity decreased? Has teenage pregnancy decreased? Is Muslim society more moral since the introduction of the Tudung?

If the Tudung was considered vital to being a Muslim, one would have thought the early Muslim immigrants who brought Islam to Malaysia would have insisted and enforced its usage. But this has not been the practice in Malaysia for the last 500 years. So why is it suddenly vital for Muslim morality?

It is a new phenomenon which was influenced by 'Islamic revivalism' as a consequence of political ructions in the Middle East. The purpose was political and driven by Muslim Clerics who saw Islam as a force to be exploited for political control. If you claim to speak on behalf of God, who could challenge you? They were the 'authorities' and individual interpretation of the Koran was not encouraged. Imposing the 'Tudung' was part of this strategy of control.

Because Muslims in Malaysia do not read the Koran , the interpretation is left to local 'Ulamaks' and 'Tok Gurus' who themselves have no real confidence in Islamic matters and take the cue from 'political Islam' in the Middle East. Local politicians have done the same as they see it as an easy means to control a people such as the Malays who have a very simplistic and ritualistic attitude towards Islam. Outward form such as dress code, prayer rituals, fasting rituals are ostentatiously paraded and emphasised in order to proclaim their peity. Little do these people realise that religious rituals are only a means to an end and not an end in itself.

This is the problem of Muslim society in Malaysia - they confuse ritual with morality. The ultimate aim of religion is to make us more moral and to submit to God. Wearing a Tudung will not achieve that.

In any case, the Koran does not mention Tudung. Muslims confuse Arabic tradition which is pre-Islamic with 'Islamic' dress code.Dress codes change with time. Let us hope, like the mini skirt and bell bottom jeans in the 60s and 70s, the 'Tudung' fashion will die a natural death like most fashions. It is diabolical to attribute morality to a superficial act such as covering hair ,even more so when it has no religious basis.

Recent scholarship on the language of the Koran has revealed that many words have been misinterpreted througout the ages. The Arabic of Muhammed was not the same as the Arabic of today.In fact there is an early version of the Koran dated 715 found in Yemen which intriguingly has differences in words to a later version of the Koran which became extant after. With regard to the passage which has been interpreted as wearing a veil, the actual meaning is wear your belt(chastity). Similarly, the idea that there will be 'virgins' in heaven again has been mistranslated- the true meaning is grapes not virgins! Sorry Guys!

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written by Panca Indera, September 10, 2008 05:19:12

To the Doubters and Unbelievers of the One and only God, Allah

[14.1] Alif Lam Ra. (This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light-- to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One,

(2:2) This is the Book of Allah: there is no doubt *2 about it. It is guidance to Godfearing people, *3

21.16] And We did not create the heaven and the earth and what is between them for sport

[13.1]. These are the verses of the Book; and that which is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.

(3:2) Allah, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting, Who sustains the entire order of the universe - there is no God but He

[2.23] And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.

[48.29] Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration……

[9.36] Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth……

2.185] The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction……

15.2] Often will those who disbelieve wish that they had been Muslims.

[15.3] Leave them that they may eat and enjoy themselves and (that) hope may beguile them, for they will soon know.

[9.68] Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.

[16.29] Therefore enter the gates of hell, to abide therein; so certainly evil is the dwelling place of the proud.

21.22] If there had been in them any gods except Allah, they would both have certainly been in a state of disorder; therefore glory be to Allah, the Lord of the dominion, above what they attribute (to Him).

[21.98] Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come

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written by WANZAH1, September 10, 2008 09:36:26

Tauhu guna logo halal palsu? Kilang proses tauhu kering terletak berhampiran kandang ternakan babi

Oleh JUNHAIRI ALYASA dan SHAH NIZAM OMAR
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INILAH kilang memproses tauhu kering di Cheras yang terletak berhampiran kandang ternakan babi.


KUALA LUMPUR - Percaya atau tidak, anda mungkin pernah terbeli tauhu kering yang diproses dalam satu kawasan ladang menternak babi di kawasan Cheras yang sejak sekian lama berada di pasaran.

Memang mengejutkan, tetapi tidak siapa yang akan mengambil peduli lebih-lebih lagi jika terdapat logo halal Jabatan Kemajuan Islam Malaysia (Jakim) pada pek bungkusan itu.

Difahamkan, tauhu kering itu telah berada di pasaran sejak empat tahun lalu dan telah mendapat sambutan ramai terutama daripada pengguna beragama Islam.

Menjijikkan. Itulah yang dapat dirumuskan ketika wartawan Kosmo! menyelinap masuk ke kilang membuat tauhu kering di sebuah premis di Cheras itu semalam.

Bukan sahaja kotor dan tidak terurus, kandang babi yang cuma dipisahkan oleh sekeping dinding cukup memualkan.

Bau busuk tersebut sekali gus menjawab persoalan yang selama ini menghantui penduduk setempat memikirkan apakah kegiatan di sebalik kawasan berdinding zink itu selain beberapa ekor anjing juga kelihatan bebas keluar masuk ke tempat membuat tauhu kering itu.

Dalam kawasan berpagar yang sama juga, terdapat sebuah kilang yang memproses kayu yang mengeluarkan habuk tidak terkawal dalam ruangan yang amat terhad.

Selepas beberapa jam menyelinap, wartawan Kosmo! turut mengekori sebuah van dan mendapati ia membawa tauhu kering yang telah siap dibungkus ke sebuah kedai berhampiran sebelum diedarkan ke tempat lain.

Apa yang menyedihkan, dipercayai logo halal Jakim itu palsu juga tertera pada bungkusan tauhu yang yang dibungkus dalam kuantiti besar untuk pemborong.

Bukan itu sahaja, alamat syarikat yang mengeluarkan bahan makanan tersebut juga tidak sama dengan kilang yang mengeluarkannya.

Difahamkan, kilang tersebut mampu mengeluarkan 5,000 hingga 10,000 bungkus tauhu kering setiap hari dan pasarannya bukan sahaja di Lembah Klang malah ke seluruh negara.

petikan dari KOSMO

Minta RPK desak Kerajaan Selangor atau agensi agama Islam mengambil tindakan ISA kepada Tauke kilang Tauhu yang mempermainkan agama Islam, udahlah cari makan di negara ini sanggup racun orang Islam dengan Tahu dari kilang babi di bubuh Logo Halal

WRM

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written by faridib, September 10, 2008 14:54:46

I observe that many non-muslims (& muslims alike...sad to say) have misconceptions about the tudung or the headcover.

Of course, Vik, there is no mention of TUDUNG in the Quran(since you're so adamant abt it) becoz there's only the word 'khumur' & 'jilbab', which are equivalents of the tudung.

So, for the benefits of Vik & others of the same opinion, INCLUDING the writer of this article, I'll try to explain in detail... with love & care(lol).

Khumur(خُمُرٌ) is plural of khimar (خِمَارٌ), the veil covering the head.
So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.

Then what does the clause “placing the khumur over the bosoms” (24:31) mean?
The women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the 2 ends tucked behind & tied at the back of the neck, hence exposing their ears and neck.By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears,neck,& the upper part of the bosom too.

It is absurd to believe that the Qur’an would use the word khimar (which, by definition, means a cloth that covers the head) only to conceal the bosom with the exclusion of the head! It would be like saying to put on your shirt only around the belly or the waist without covering the chest!


What is the meaning of “jalabib”?


Jalabib (جَلاَبِيْبٌ)....as mentioned in

“O Prophet! Say to your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should let down upon themselves their jalabib”...

is the plural of jilbab (جِلْبَابٌ), which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, for instance, defines jilbab as “the shirt or a wide dress. While al-Turayhi, in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, defines it as “a wide dress, wider than the scarf and shorter than a robe, that a woman puts upon her head and lets it down on her bosom..."

This means that the Islamic dress code for women does not only consist of a scarf that covers the head, the neck and the bosom; it also includes the overall dress that should be long and loose.

So those who have little knowledge & understanding of the Quran, pls stop rambling that wearing the tudung is abt male supremacy & egoism or its just a fad or a blind following of the arab culture.

Granted that many muslim women fail to truly adhere or fail to fully understand the significance of God's stipulation, but that does not mean that the command does not serve the purpose.

And especially for cheemengwong:

why do have laws on wearing the crash helmets? Those wearing helmets never died b4 in accidents?
do we see ppl parking at yellow/white lines? what's the point in having the lines?
does the mandatory use of the punch cards in offices guarantee efficacy & higher production?

Bottomline is, WE HAVE TO HAVE LAWS, right?

And what could be greater than the laws of the Creator; just as it is the manual from the manufacturer.
You can't choose to follow some instructions, say in your usage of the washing machine. It says 'don't put your hands while the machine is in progress', but you think that you don't like to be dictated to, would you do it?

I like to relate God's command akin to our everyday life & routines & the more we find out the rratinale behind His orders, the more you are convinced He knows best.
What is the value of our limited mental faculty compared to His knowledge!

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written by onmu martin, September 10, 2008 15:40:14

Why all these fuss about covering your face. If you are ugly it might help to cover your ugliness, but if you are beautiful why not flaunt your beauty.

Does it make you any holier by covering your face? Or does it make you a sinner by not covering your face? You should decide for yourself and not let others dictate to you what you should or shouldn't do.

There are many sinners who try to appear very holly by covering their face so that nobody suspect what sins they have committed. Look at all the female criminals. They do not cover their face until they appear in court.

Allah or God is only please with your good deeds and not because you have covered your face so well. It is the over zealous zealot who wants you to cover your beautiful face for his own agenda.

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written by peacemonger, September 12, 2008 00:08:00

Salam Pete,

I truly look forward everyday to your writing in MT, especially on the various 'expose' of misdeeds among those in power. Where else can one get such insights on the on-goings in that room in Concorde Hotel, or that 'liwat' planning session conducted in a Kenny Hill Law Office. My hat's off to you.

But I cringe when you write about Islam. At best I will say that you're ill-informed. At worst, I'd say your writings are disingenuous.

Worst still, your postings are read by Non-Muslim (and ill-informed Muslims too, unfortunately), which lead to misinformed readership (on Islam).

Your writing on the Tudung, especially, caused real consternation among some Muslim.

Below is the link to Ustaz Zaharuddin's site. He wrote an especially well-written response to your article. It will do you good to go there.

TO OTHER Readers -- if you're sincere in your learning, make the trip to the site. It is written in English.

http://www.zaharuddin.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=753&Itemid=72

Best wishes, Pete (I hope you don’t mind my calling you with such familiarity). And congratulations on the unblocking of MT as announced today. I look forward to read your postings without hindrances from those who fear your words.

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written by megabigblur, September 12, 2008 13:52:00

Can I ask a question about Quran translations? How come all the Quran translations seem to be in very old-fashioned English? Are they from the 19th century or what?

Just for contrast (I'm not trying to advertise here), the Christian Bible has a lot of different English translations. Some old-fashioned people prefer the old-fashioned versions like the RSV (update of the King James version with fewer mistakes) but there are many in modern English. But whenever I see the Quran quoted on the Internet, the verses have all the "ye", "thee", "thou"...

So are English-speaking Muslims stuck with reading the Quran in archaic language, or are there alternatives?

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written by Panca Indera, September 12, 2008 16:49:08

Dear Megabigblur

>> How come all the Quran translations seem to be in very old-fashioned English?

EVERY translation of the QURAN is based on the ORIGINAL COPY collected about 1378 years ago, refered as theOthmani Quran. Link for more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uthman_Qur'an

>>Are they from the 19th century or what?
No they no from the 19thcentury.. ALL translations are based on the same 650 ad copy. That is why the translations have the “ye", "thee", "thou"...as that was the official language at that time.

>>But whenever I see the Quran quoted on the Internet, the verses have all the "ye", "thee", "thou"...
So are English-speaking Muslims stuck with reading the Quran in archaic language, or are there alternatives?

To Muslims who read the Quran regularly, it is not archaic language nor confusing at all. But for someone who is reading it for the first time and reading to find faults, yes it is archaic.

Unlike Christian Bible, the Quran is pretty much standardized. So you have to take it as it is. try this link:
http://noblequran.com/translation/index.html

I hope that answer you questions.

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written by BUTEK, September 12, 2008 23:01:18

It's better for anak raja bugis and all the queens and princesses that believe wearing hijab is not compulsory for them sign a declaration that they don't want their dead bodies to be fully covered by kaffan from head to toe (just like the arabs) insted they prefer to be burried wearing tight kebaya exposing their beautifull hair..... wa..wa..wa.....

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written by BUTEK, September 12, 2008 23:11:39

i suggest to anak raja bugis to begin new culture where his wife, daughters (if any) his cousin daughters, the queens and princesses that hate to wear tudung pray wearing kebaya or baju kurung exposing their beutiful hair at mosque or home... maybe it's better to start this upcoming Hari Raya... ade berani ke????

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written by Proarte, September 15, 2008 09:51:17

I have no issue with people wearing a Tudung, but I feel it is important for Muslims and non-Muslims to point out that it is not a mark of moral superiority over Muslim women who do not wear the Tudung.Given that more than 50% of women in Malaysia do not wear the Tudung and the fact that entertainment norms in the Malaysian media routinely feature women without the Tudung, it is ridiculous to attribute not wearing a Tudung as sexually provocative.

After all if it is considered sexually arousing, why would the Koran permit boys and husbands and other close relatives to see their daughters, wives and aunts without a Tudung in their houses?

Malays must have confidence in their religious faith and not try to emulate Wahabi Arabs who have different cultural values and norms. Malays should be proud of their faith, culture and dress which has served them well for the past 500 hundred years and not be slaves to Political Islam which is an invidious curse on this nation.

I have observed that Raja Petra's wife Marina has appeared in public not wearing the Tudung. I clearly remember her covering her hair a few years ago. Are the Tudung brigade now going to cast aspersions on the morality of this courageous lady who has tirelessly fought for Anwar's release during his incarceration and who has been the pillar of support to Raja Petra who has shown himself to be a great Malaysian fighting for a more civilised and just Malaysia?

It is diabolical to attribute morality to a superficial act such as covering hair.

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written by Panca Indera, September 16, 2008 08:49:27

After all if it is considered sexually arousing, would the Koran allow boys and husbands and other close relatives to see their daughters, wives and aunts without a Tudung in their houses?

REMINDER QURAN says[24.31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.

I have observed that Raja Petra's wife Marina has appeared in public not wearing the Tudung
SO ALSO A LOT of OTHER GRANDMOTHERS!

It is ALSO diabolical, NOT to attribute morality to an act such as covering hair. smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

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written by richardwong, September 18, 2008 12:15:07

Presuming that the Quran translation of Chapter 2 verse 256 is as follows: [ There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieve in Taghut (anything worshipped other than the real god) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break . . ]

Many people interpret the verse as stating that everyone is free to choose any religion and that we should not force anyone to adopt just one religion.

Or we can interpret the verse as follows: God has decreed a structured “Path of Peaceful Life” or “Islam as in “surrender or submission to God’s universal laws which was decreed upon creation of the universe and all living things”; which inherently implies Living Peacefully with man’s environment and not transgressing the permitted limits of misconduct, whilst adhering to moral tenets and doing good, avoiding evil and mistruths.

With the revelation of the Quran (readings) the right path is now clearly defined and the Quran contains Explanations and Examples to convince its readers of the truth, and therefore through reasoning there is no excuse for anybody to reject the “Pathways of peaceful life” decreed for mankind.

No one needs to be forced to accept “God’s decreed way of life” (ie compulsion) but he or she will be convinced of the “truth” once he or she re*** the Quran."

But how many people read the Quran with understanding, so that he or she could be blessed with its wisdom? The religious leaders might be able to read the Quran in Arabic and be able to help translate the Quran in other languages, but the interpretation of verses is a different ball of game altogether.

Yes, translation is important. If the verse 185 from Chapter 2 is read as “The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction…”, then the non-Arabic reader can be mis-led.

What if there is “no one holy month – Ramadan” (ie other months, not holy?), what if the verse states as: “Months of shedding of thoughs which is transmitted in it – the Quran – a guide for mankind and the explanation of guidance and criterion for right conduct. . . “

What if Chapter 2, verse 255 read as follows: “There is no compulsion in the orderly way of life. Certainty is now clear between the guidance from the wrong ones. . . “

Notice that the word “religion” is not part of the verse. What if the “Pathways of peaceful life” is the antithesis of “religion of rituals, acts of bowing and other institutionalized prayer and worship” (so apparent in Idol worship, and adhering to the commands of “priests and religious authorities, who earn their keep from “religion”)?

The Quran warns of idolizing anyone (priests and prophets, included. Prophets serve to convey the message, and the value in God’s service ends there, nothing more.)

Perhaps the above helps to clarify that mere experts in the Arabic Quran are not necessarily the right interpreters of the “readings”. But the no-Arabic reader needs to understand the message of the Quran (perhaps, starting with various translations), by reading the Quran in totality to understand the true meanings.

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written by richardwong, September 18, 2008 16:43:06

Irrespective of different translation versions, isn’t the meaning from the Quran the following, viv-a-vis:

a) Q66:11 . . . the wife of Pharoah won God’s favour and mercy through her Islam (not, presumably via any adherence to the religious rituals and institutionalized prayers of the Jews of that period . . . not necessary the Islam of Moses, the Islamic Prophet of the time)

b) Q19: 25-26 . . . Mary (mother of Jesus) whilst “fasting”, was offered dates and the suggestion to eat and drink, but to adhere to her vowed “syiyam” (or “practice of retrain” or “fast”) of not conversing with anyone that day. Note that “syiyam” in this instance has nothing to do with not eating or drinking.

And if Araham was taught the pilgrimage ritual around the Khabah, why in the Readings (ie Quran) there is no commentary of other prophets, including Issac (son of Abraham), Jacob (son of Issac) and Joseph (son of Jacob) following the practice. Did Araham neglect to tell his siblings of the “Islamic” practice?

But in the Quran, the Creed of Abraham is recommended for all and sundry. Isn’t his creed freed from the idolers’ practice of rituals and institutionalized prayers?

In the Quran, the true believers do not follow the manmade laws and teachings of the religious authorities of the day (whether they be priests or what not). Vide Q12:40 . . .the command is for none but God; God commands that man serve none but God lone.

Therefore, who claims that he or she can set religious law and obligations for mankind? Prophets serve to convey God’s message, and their value in God’s service ends there, nothing more. Vide Q33:21 . . .excellent exampler, who constantly praises God, Q3:79 . . .who taught the book, having studied it, Q50:45 . . .remind or warn by means of the Quran

Christians abide by the Bible, Those who profess to be Muslims presumably abide by the Quran. How many Muslims know their Quran? What does the Quran say about “riba”. Do you follow one part of the Quran and ignore another?

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written by Panca Indera, September 18, 2008 22:23:03

Dear RichardWong,
All the answers you are looking for are in a few simple steps.

1.An Arabic proverb goes something like this; ”Ifs” doesn’t exist. It is only happens in the Mind but not in Reality.
So forget about the” Ifs” in your arguments. It is an ASSUMPTION”, which has no real value.

As for your understanding from reading the Quran, try this links for better understanding,especially by Syed Alaa Maududi.

But before starting your journey, do this First.
a)say a prayer in your own words to your CREATOR(GOD) of your wish for Truth.
b)Clean/clear(shower) yourself of any contaminants (its like being sterilized before surgery)while sincerely praying for God’s Guidance.
c)Then read the QURAN in the state of cleanliness, in the Language you understand.
As I said the Best I think is this links:
d)1. http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
e)2. http://noblequran.com/translation/index.html

Note the Quran will provide all the answers, God Willing

RIBA INTEREST IS HARAM pure and simple. That’s why the financial meltdown! And it will keep happening.

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written by Panca Indera, September 19, 2008 19:24:23

>>And if Araham was taught the pilgrimage ritual around the Khabah, why in the Readings (ie Quran) there is no commentary of other prophets, including Issac (son of Abraham), Jacob (son of Issac) and Joseph (son of Jacob) following the practice. Did Abraham neglect to tell his siblings of the “Islamic” practice?

Joseph PBUH was kidnapped by his brothers, sold to slavery in Egypt, sent to prison for wrongful accusation of Molestation of his Master's wife and in the end became the Finance Minister of the Pharaoh.
Issac (Ishak) PBUH, Ishmael PBUH half brother settled in Palestine (Jordan river valley maybe?) to continue Abraham’s mission.
Jacob PBUH continued Issac PBUH mission. In the same area.

Ismail and His mother were deposited near Mecca as Ordained by God to Abraham for future objectives. (ALLAH the MOST WISE)

>>Did Abraham neglect to tell his siblings of the “Islamic” practice?
Not Siblings but Children right?
Were you present at Abraham’s side to know?
Do you seriously believed Abraham neglected his dutiesy to GOD?

Iman is to believe in the heart

Allah (swt) says in the Qur’aan: “When the hypocrites come to you they say: "We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allâh." Allâh knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allâh bears witness that the hypocrites are liars indeed.

They have made their oaths a screen (for their hypocrisy). Thus they hinder (men) from the Path of Allâh. Verily, evil is what they used to do. That is because they believed, then disbelieved, therefore their hearts are sealed, so they understand not.” (Quran Al-Munaafiqoun, 63: 1-3)

In the above verses Allah (SWT) states that the Munaafiqoun (hypocrites) pretend Iman and Islaam in their actions but they disbelieve in their heart. Therefore it is not enough just to testify by your tongue and perform good actions; you MUST also believe in the heart.

Furthermore, Allah (swt) says in the Qur’aan: “And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allâh and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not. They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!” (Quran Al-Baqarah, 2: 8-9)

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