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Guan Eng wins easily PDF Print
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Thursday, 21 August 2008 10:30

KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 20 — Any doubt that Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng was the big winner in tonight's "live" televised debate with his predecessor Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon was probably erased during the winding up by the two men.

The knock-out punch came in this one-liner from Lim: "If there was no corruption in the previous Barisan Nasional (BN) government, then they would not have fallen in the March election tsunami."

But Koh was not the only loser in the debate.

Lim scored points against Umno and the BN as well by using the occasion to insinuate Koh was still protecting his coalition partners and that he had given special treatment when allocating land to those with political connections.

"Why was special treatment given to Abad Naluri in the allocation of land originally meant for recreational purposes to be converted to one for mixed development for the Penang Global City Centre project?" he asked.

Koh may have thought the occasion was an opportunity for him to score political points in a valiant attempt to revive his decimated Gerakan party.

He was wrong.

 

Handshake between Lim Guan Eng (left) and Koh Tsu Koon at tonight's debate. — picture by Choo Choy May

His advisers should have told him that the topic of the debate, to discuss accusations by Lim that his government had mismanaged various land deals and caused hundreds of millions of ringgit in losses to the state government, would cause him to be on the backfoot.

And indeed, Koh looked uncomfortable and defensive, except for a few glib comments and retorts, in the form of accusing his political foe of being more interested in attacking him then in governing the state.

"He is now the CM but yet he still behaves like he is still in opposition," said Koh at the beginning of the night's proceedings.

That was probably as good as it got for Koh.

Lim, on the other hand, appeared to understand the art of debating in politics.

He hammered home the point that the previous state government's mistake in alienating land that it did not own to a quarry operator had caused more than RM40 million in damages to the state's coffers.

The DAP secretary-general also kept asking the question of why Koh's administration had not taken action against the officer responsible for the mistake.

But more than just debating the alleged land scams, Lim used the occasion to highlight his administration's manifesto, publicising his commitment to "competency, accountability and transparency," or CAT as it has become popularly known.

Koh attempted throughout the debate to defend his administration, pointing out that two probes conducted by the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) found no wrongdoing.

Perhaps his advisers should have also told him that public confidence in the ACA remains low even now.

Strangely, Koh resorted at one point to his almost photographic memory of the dimensions of his former office to defend accusations that he had handed over an almost empty office to Lim after losing in the elections.

"The Chief Minister's Office on the 28th floor has more than 14,000 square feet of office space. The CM's room has more than 2,000 square feet. All the files are kept in the cabinet.  The desk may have been empty but that does not mean there were no files," he said.

Lim's reply to that was to stick to his point that he found no files.

"We had to dig, dig, dig ourselves. But do not worry because when we had no resources in opposition we still managed to uncover scandals, what more when we are in government."

But perhaps the moment which underscored the uneasiness in which Koh found himself in tonight was when he was answering a question on how he thought land administration could be improved.

He said that improving the administration was a continuing process and was an "unending struggle".

Perhaps that was not quite the answer that should have been given by a man defending almost two decades in power as chief minister.

Gerakan is already wracked by infighting and in much turmoil following the loss of Penang to the DAP.

Its acting president may have to do more than appear on television to regain political support.

- The Malaysian Insider

Comments (36)Add Comment
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written by froggy, August 21, 2008 10:32:29
Sheesh.. KTK is a faithful dog to BN.

http://thedandelions.*********...m-student/
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written by cwy, August 21, 2008 10:35:24
I'm looking forward to a debate between Samy Vellu with any Indian leader from PR.
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written by sjs, August 21, 2008 10:36:07
Congratulations to you Mr. Lim. My condolences to you Mr. Koh, because your party will now be accorded with a proper burial. Perhaps you should advice the cowards like Najib and Abdullah to take on Anwar.
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written by fireduck, August 21, 2008 10:46:35
I'd say the debate is interesting, that's all. Actually, it just shows the need to de-politicise the matter, and at the same time highlight the need for all quarters to work together. Otherwise, it's the rakyat who will continue to pay for it.

KTK seemed to think that 99.9% record is a-okay, with reference to the land matters. Well, learning from the Six Sigma concept, it's akin to a maternity hospital saying that we delivered 10,000 babies over the years, and we dropped only 7 of them! It's not the number of cases that counts if you want to bring up percentages and quality.

I did note that Guan Eng at one point said that all his govt wanted is cooperation for the good of the Penang people. It's an offer to work together for the betterment of the rakyat. On that point KTK should accept the 'offer' to be open accessible and open, and voluntarily offer his help in those matters, especially since a court case involving the state govt will probably require him (KTK) to appear too. Why does he have to tarik harga?

I know, BN policies, blah, blah, blah...... just ditch them, if you really care about the rakyat of Penang! Otherwise, it will really lead to Gerakan being TOTALLY rejected and pariahed in Penang! Think about it. Why would you want to be a leader of a loser party, especially when you know you will not get any support form the rakyat. A political party exists because of the people's support. Without it, then what is the political party for? Organizing line dancing and Cupid parties like MCA?
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written by allangan2006, August 21, 2008 10:47:16
Syabas YB Guan Eng! He has made it clear that the BN has been "infected with Denial Syndrome", BN will cover cases though evidences are overhelming. Remember our Lingam Tapes? It took months to decide the setting up of the much awaited Royal Commission. The watchman ACA has investigated the land scam and found no proofs? Be reminded that, at the same time, these watchman must be watched too.
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written by Right Thing, August 21, 2008 10:49:34
Sometimes when you have had such an experience like LGE being wrongfully imprisoned, it can only harden a person's character to such an extent that it will transform the person to be ever more awoved to do the right thing when an opportunity presents itself. LGE is such a person, and will probabaly stay this way just like his father for the longest time to come. Together with PR, the nation will definitely see a rosier and brigher future for all Malaysians.
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written by RumahPanjai, August 21, 2008 10:58:24
Thanks for hammering the last nail into the coffin of Gerakan, Mr.Koh. BN is a sinking ship. Bale out before its too late. Your UMNO masters have betrayed you. Remove the blinkers from your eyes.
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written by jjireh99, August 21, 2008 11:03:05
YB LGE is a person of impeccable character, dignified, trustworthy, honest, accountable, refined (not like the UMNO rogues) etc..... I'm not worshipping him but I respect a person like that. Not like that fella who is lying through his teeth to protect those idiots! Of course, no one is perfect but if you can say 1 wrong as right, very soon, you'll be saying 2, 3 wrongs are also right! Get it?
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written by P5P, August 21, 2008 11:07:39
Congratulation YB Guan Eng. The truth shall prevail and the rakyat needs political leaders like you to protect the well being of malaysians. RM40 million in lost, and the ACA found no evidence of wrong doing ???? You are molesting my intelligence !!!!
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written by KotaDamansara73, August 21, 2008 11:09:21
Gerakan should just join DAP and save themselves from the evils of UMNO.

UMNO has make the Malays to be the most unprogressive, corrupted and laziest race in Asia.
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written by back2future, August 21, 2008 11:11:05
atcually tan sri koh , is also doing a nice job caused he still able to cover up watever it is la in the live tv by manipulated the answer and questions , a big relieve to certain people who are sweating at that moment , phewwwwwwww . he always stress wat ever it is , is still in process of getting a verdict , so it cannot be discuss as is againts the law,but when is the end we really wont know. so wat the point of this debate .... any how both of them speak a good bahasa malaysia , i feel proud being a chinese malaysian
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written by latihanQ, August 21, 2008 11:22:51
TSKTK was evasive throughout the debate. He was also insulting viewer’s intelligence! All night long, he was weaving and hedging with a load of rubbish because he had no honest answers to Mr. LGE’s blunt but smart arguments.

At one stage, TSKTK was disgustingly hitting below the belt by questioning Mr. LGE’s initial decision not to move into the uninhabitable CM’s residence. Everybody already knows Mr. LGE had the repairs carried out at a fraction of the estimated cost, saving hundreds of thousands of ringgit before moving in. Is TSKTK an idiot or a numbskull?

TSKTK would have closed his eyes and paid the original quotation for an imaginary job NOT done! For twenty two years, TSKTK has hoodwinked and taken Penangites for a ride.

It is CONFIRMED. Penangites made the right decision in rejecting and booting out this dishonest and nondescript former CM.

Congratulations to MR. LGE for exposing land scamps committed during TSKTK’s tenure. Mr. LGE must continue with the audit trail. Every sen stolen must be recovered and the culprits held accountable for their negligence and oversight. TSKTK must not be allowed to escape responsibility.
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written by Counterpointer, August 21, 2008 11:25:03
KTK(Kalah Teruk Koh)still believes he can continue to fool the rakyat who kicked him out with this kind of answer for not divulging the land scams:

"Kes-kes masih dalam mahkamah. Nanti cakap, subjudice pula"

This line also happens to be BADawi's and Najib's favourite to close issues.

Have we had enough?

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written by my oumrie, August 21, 2008 11:37:53
Hey Tan Sri, relax lah. Now you don't have to kow tow to Bee End and say "how high?" when they ask you to jump. If you have any principles at all, quit Gerakan and join Pakatan Rakyat! Cummon.....I dare you!
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written by salsabarney, August 21, 2008 11:39:02
KTK (Kena taruh Kau-kau)appears to be protecting his UMNO masters throughout.
When queried why actions were not taken, his answer is ACA is investigating..yeah right..like every high profile case "Investigate, investigate, investigate"...= no case.
No wonder KTK can stay for 18 years as Chief Minister..if not for March 8 Gerakan's election disaster..he would have stayed on till forever. So long as the some people can use him to 'korek korek korek' resources of Penang.

As what mentioned a reader before, this is indeed a final nail into Gerakan's coffin.
Bye -bye Gerakan!!
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written by e LION, August 21, 2008 11:42:46
KTK, do accept the invitation offer to assist the current admin. It's not you're weak or "loose face". Put your BN policy aside ,do it as an individual not as a politican. I think you'll be more respected by the people of Penang.
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written by asguard, August 21, 2008 11:43:20
Bravo...to Lim Eng Guan.. for last nite speech live debate... and to Koh you're still a very loyal servant of UMNO till don't dare to mentioned whoever involved in the land scam even... what is use of you...in first place tell me ....
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written by angkasawan bocor, August 21, 2008 11:53:36
Syabas Chief Minister Lim!
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written by takbolehtahan, August 21, 2008 12:20:57
Please la Mr Koh, even a stray dog knows when it is not wanted. Don't you know that Umno doesn't want you? You lost Penang! That's why they didn't help you at all for the debate. Wanted you to make a fool of yourself amongst your own kind. I guess you want to sacrifice yourself as umno's scapegoat. Carry on then.
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written by Ben, August 21, 2008 12:34:07
Congratulations to LGE! Your conviction in propounding the values of good governance is par excellence. Not to mention the fluidity and clarity of thought in every issue. We hear and understand you. KSK had to rely on all his faculties to stay afloat; just as his gomen had to do for the past 2 decades.

I came away from the debate knowing that Penang has a bright future ahead of them. There is much hope. With a steady and experienced captain, this ship is going places. Whatever storms in the horizon, they will overcome. His courage and CAT is a beacon for fellow Penangites to follow and together they will succeed. Forget about KSK coming forward to help you uncover more corruption as he has made it clear that his responsibility has passed to you and you will need to clean up for him. We pray for your success in overcoming evil with good.
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written by DJH, August 21, 2008 12:40:40
On top of being satisfied at seeing LGE winning it hands down, at least this time no mouth foaming smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif Keep it up, LGE
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written by Thamipoh, August 21, 2008 12:40:42
Mr. Koh,(as gentleman as I can be) passing the blame to the ACA does not relief you of the reponsibility of good governance. What the Rakyat wants was for you to perform in such a way the state may benefit. You failed miserably, and the rakyat responded rightly on 308 to ran you out of office. You did not tell the audiance that night that you were under presure to close one eye when this dealings were going on undertable even thought you knew before hand. You refused to admit that you have a higher master to whom you have to answer. You were not IN-CHARGE even you were the CHIEF Minister.
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written by ez24get, August 21, 2008 12:43:37
I think LGE is better on facts while KTK is better on delivery. Both are the winners in tonight’s debate. This is a much better quality debate than the Shaberry Chik - Anwar debate which was way lopsided. In the earlier debate, Shaberry Chik had nothing to contribute to the debate other than personal attacks.

KTK showed that he is a powerful debater and had all the facts on his fingertips although he has been out of the administration. However, it is quite obvious that KTK side-stepped 4 out of the 5 land scams brought up by LGE. LGE, on the other hand, showed his sincerity in tackling corruption and his firm commitment on accountability and transparency. That’s why both are winners - on different paths!

I thought that LGE should have pinned KTK down on the PGCC issue because it looks like a slam dunk case and I thought it is odd that he didn’t. Could it be that LGE doesn’t want to show his hand on what action he is going to take on PGCC or that he got instruction from the moderator that both should not go deeper into that territory?

LGE hit the nail on the head when the moderator asked how the land system could be improved in the future. While KTK said he had achieved 99.9% success rate in land administrative matters, LGE correctly mentioned that the internal control system albeit check and balances need to be put in place. He then proceeded to enumerate the ways to better the internal control (check and balances) like having more professionals involved, educating the civil servants on CAT, forbidding land alienation to politically connected parties, open tender, etc. I thought that revamping the Internal Control is very important as you can be 100% correct in land administrative matters as claimed by KTK but what is the point if the land is correctly alienated to the wrong guy? That is where Internal Control is important to check any misdeeds from happening.

I am happy that Penang leaders are more matured and transparent in debating openly than most of their counterparts in other states that are led by UMNO. They showed they are miles ahead in their capability in leading a good state administration and are not that susceptible to widespread corruption and mismanagement. UMNO are desperately trying to cover up misdeeds in these states let alone openly debating them in public!

At the end of the day all Penangites irregardless of race benefitted from their leadership. UMNO should emulate the quality of non-malay leaders that Penang had so far! If not for UMNO adherence to the dogmatic “Ketuanan Melayu”, Malaysia should already be miles ahead of Singapore and many other Asian countries!
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written by carribeanking7, August 21, 2008 12:58:27
I watched it live yesterday on NTV7, in my opinion....

Koh's points

there were only 7 or so scams against over 10,000 titles processed

the case was before court thus it was subjudice to discuss it

the approval for the quarry was given because there were surrounding quarries , thus after the land is flattened it could be used for housing development.


LGE's points

If the state govt did not change the people would not know of the matter

despite advice by land and survey dept and regulators the old state govt ignored procedures.

no punitive action whatsoever was taken against the perpetrators

large quantities of land alienated to one person



The way I percieve the debate is both parties acted with decorum.

Koh did not bring up Anwar at all while many thought he would, but gave standard BNsque answers like dismissing the expose as a small percentage, subjudice as the case was before court and skirting issues as to why procedures were not followed.

LGE while suceeding to put him into defensive mode, and create enough doubt to make us think that this could only be the tip of the iceberg in such cases, repeated CAT far too many times-I swear at one point I was rolling my eyes.
Koh is partially right when he said....
"He is now the CM but yet he still behaves like he is still in opposition,"

No doubt the winner is LGE, but KOh held his ground well save for brief moments of exasperation.
He was not a buffoon like shabery cheek who Anwar trounced.
After march 8th Koh took defeat magnanimously and was the ONLY BN person defeated to attend a Pakatan MB's swearing in.

While LGE won the debate he has yet to learn the finer points of statemanship...and while Koh appeared defeated he is certainly no villian like Khir Toyo.


Vijay Kumar Murugavell
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written by zhugeliang, August 21, 2008 13:28:36
I think this debate is a waste of time. Can't KTK explain the situation in a press conference, if he has any? KTK has to drag LGE to debate? There is black and white. Documents. KTK is trying to say black sheep is a white sheep. Turn here and there. I must say KTK is good in this sense, dodging bullets (good for UMNO) but not good enough to be serving Penang people and Malaysians. And then, if there is one error in a case that happened 40 years ago, why it takes 40 years later to be disclosed? Don't tell me this is still in court? For 40 goddamn years??? Come on, KTK! What are you doing while you are CM, huh? Talking about efficiency, transparency and accountability, KTK you have none of this. And probably the debate just helped to further justified our perception. Thanks KTK! No more Gerakan in Penang, for sure!
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written by Achin, August 21, 2008 15:16:26
OK OK Debate is over and the winner is the people in Penang cos they get to hear live the issues from the top guns (en ex and a current). In my opinion Koh has been a better man compared to the other MB's in handling over their govt admin. PR is in power for more than 4 motnhs now....so should have a report card for the 1st 6 months soon. Sometimes its easier to criticize than actually producing the results. One must remember that Koh has his boss to look after and been a subordinate he has also to follow the game plan....even though he may not like it. Only weak point is that he dare not and did not voice out his objections loud enough. Lets get working on doing the right things for the common people now and be united as there are still much challenges ahead especially with "empty" support form the Federal Govt.
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written by bradwell_estate, August 21, 2008 15:27:57
irregardless who emerge as winner, I will still support LGE. we need a vocal opposition and not a Umno's dog!
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written by FreeMalaysia, August 21, 2008 18:20:32
Is the video available online? There's one on Youtube that only lasted about a minute.
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written by magickriver, August 21, 2008 18:52:09
I don't watch TV so I missed the debate but from all accounts I've read so far Lim Guan Eng deserves a bouquet for seizing this great opportunity to get the Pakatan Rakyat manifesto of accountable and competent government broadcast to the whole nation. The only positive thing I can say about Koh Tsu Koon is that he behaved like a gentleman on the night of March 8th after Gerakan lost Penang to DAP. But all those years as Penang CM he was essentially a facilitator for a few Umno fatcats to pig out at the trough of Penang's resources.
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written by chiongguo, August 21, 2008 20:44:43
Koh Tsu Koon did a credible job in reframing the scope of the discussion and in so doing he managed to dodge the real issues at hand...while appearing to be straight forward. His constant harping on the RM40 million was his strategy. He held LGE down on just that issue.

LGE was less credible in his delivery. At times he appeared to be making a political speech when he had no answer to KTK's taunts. LGE went into the debate without a proper strategy. If he had stayed with the scope of the debate - which KTK definitely had no reply to as was seen in his reply to the question from LGE's question mate. He was asked specifically to deny that there weren't any corruption during his tenure as CM. He weasled his way out of that one.

Part of debating technique for the proposar is to enlarge the scope of the definition of the debate topic. LGE should have stucked to this. The opposer strategy is to reduce the scope to as narrow as possible. In this KTK did a very good job when he kept jumping back to this RM40 million land issue.

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written by miwaki, August 21, 2008 21:18:10
Tsu Koon,for your information,Guan Eng could be an accountant buruk because he has am accounting degree but you are definitely not a lawyer buruk because you do not have a law degree.Yours is in education and the most you can call yourself is a cikgu buruk.You got it ! Lawyer buruk kunun.
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written by bexe, August 21, 2008 22:36:05
LGE
Why debate Koh?
Make a complaint to the ACA or make a Police report
Take him to Court and charge him
This is the way to get closure so you can move on with the job of governing the state.Don't waste time!
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written by Fart Fart Wah, August 22, 2008 01:42:31
Koh was covering the arse of UMKU( umno melayu kurang upaya) If he did not cOver their arse..this will mean that he is opening himself to be torn apart as the running dog for UMNO-UMKU..this where GERAKAN BECAME GERAKAN BELAKANGKAN..
WHEN CROOKS GET TOGETHER THEY HAVE TO SMILE FOR EACH OTHER AND COVER EACH OTHERS BACKSIDE..
CITIZENS OF PENANG ARE SICK OF GERAKAN PLAYING SECOND FIDDLE TO UMNO UMKU..
THE GERAKAN PARTY LEADERS SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE BALLS IN FIGHTING THIS AS TO WHY LAND SCAMS, BANK SCAMS, CORRUPTIONS ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE FROM UMNO-UMKU..

all this shit started with the Mother of all Mahmooks..the famous Indian wolf wearing a baju Melayu..who was selling Queen BEE brandy in Kedah..and today this bloody mahmook has made a legion of corrupt UMKUs and he himself wants to runback to Kerala if Anwar is elected PM..WHY??? is he afraid that Anwar will take all the shit out of Putrajaya?????

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written by amoker, August 22, 2008 11:04:14
2- 0 to Pakatan. Anybody esle from BN want to debate? That shows the general incompetence of UMNO led Barisan. Cannot win debates in Malaysia, sure going to loose to Singapore again.

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