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Protest stops Bar Council conversions forum PDF Print
Posted by admin   
Saturday, 09 August 2008 11:12

Several hundred protesters demonstrated outside the Bar Council forum on conversions to Islam this morning, with some forcing their way into the hall as police called on the organisers to wrap up proceedings by 10am.

Witnesses said several protesters entered the building escorted by police, stood in the middle of the hall and stared at the several hundred participants attending the "Conversion to Islam: Article 121(1A) of the Federal Constitution, Subashini & Shamala Revisited" forum.

The protesters had gathered since 8am and brought out banners criticising and condemning the forum which has received objections from both government and opposition leaders.

At 9.25am, Bar Council president Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan interrupted the forum to say the police have advised them to wrap it up by 10am as protest still going on outside the building. The forum began at 8.45am.

Ambiga closed the forum 3 minutes before 10am deadline. Protesters still trying to barge in. Pas Unit Amal members standing between them and the police, trying to stop them.

Protesters are leaving but some are trying to chase and harass participants coming out. Bar Council members are seen seeking the help of the police to prevent this. 

More to come

Comments (133)Add Comment
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written by Tom n Jerry, August 09, 2008 11:22:50
Where is ht efreedom of speech or expression?ARe we in a democratic country? smilies/cry.gif
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written by rajaphillips, August 09, 2008 11:25:11
Dear Bar Council, congratulations for helping the Umno cause. Your lack of wisdom is only helping Umno esp Najib who just days ago "warned" you NOT to have such a forum. Today Najib has succeeded and appears a hero because of your foolishness in providing him and Umno the opportunity. If you continue like this only the PR will suffer and BN will triumph. Ambiga, pls dont be an idiot.
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written by malsia1206, August 09, 2008 11:30:53
I've said it and am saying it again. Politics, race and religion are the destructive factors to promote a harmonious Malaysia. We all know specifically what politics, race and religion in particular. You would be pretending to be ignorant if you are not realistic.
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written by mrbean, August 09, 2008 11:34:25
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/87519

I refer to the above news clipping from Malaysiakini. Once again we see the extreme section of our society with them carrying placards saying “Jangan cabar Islam” (Don’t challenge Islam) and “Bar Council, Don’t play with fire”.
Since when does the forum challenge Islam ? Clarify and show us the meaning of "Don'tchallenging Islam"? Who is playing with fire ? The forum participants or the demonstrators? What about the ruling party members who once upon a time, demonstrated with statements and banners like "Dipping the keris with Chinese Blood"...
In this modern era, there is no more space for such extremism. (These extremist should migrate to the countries which promotes it, you know where lah) . In developed countries, freedom of speech is encouraged to promote healthy dialogue and understanding. In this country, freedom of speech is discourage by people who have inferiority complex (needless to say with very low intellectual capabilities) that resorts to instilling fear in the massess.
This is a sad situation for the rakyat. Especially those who are still beeing fooled by the Umno and BN with their bunch of outdated propoganda.....


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written by johanssm, August 09, 2008 11:46:55
1 - There is no laws on this land (man made laws or allah divine laws) that prevents anybody from holding such forum .

2 - Why the polis allows the protest?

3 - Why special treatment from the polis to the protestors ?

4 - " several protesters entered the building escorted by police " What the **** is this ?

5 - Why prejudge this forum when they do NOT know the benefits of it .
As this forum talks on issues that the government refuses to resolve.



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written by rajaphillips, August 09, 2008 11:57:05
Dear johanssm

1) But God also gave us wisdom and told us to exercise it

2) The polis allowed it so that Umno will benefit, so that Hishammudin and Najib can become heroes when things become ugly

3) Now, can you see Umno's hand behind the whole thing?

4) Thats Umno

5) Prejudge? Thats how Umno been operating for the last 50years dont you know?
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written by binarytan, August 09, 2008 11:59:11
Another project by UMNO. Just wonder they sent in any thugs from BMC.

I do not understand why the police is not having any detention on these group of racist people, or they are also the gang of running dogs??

We better spend our time in the olympic rather than all the dirty politics in Malaysia, which is a shame to our country.

We should be honoured with at least a gold medal in Olympic without any contestor, Gold medal in Sodomy event. The winner is ShaiFool.

smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif
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written by FFT, August 09, 2008 12:02:57
Pssstt! Muslims....

I'll let you in on a little secret.

STOP STEALING DEAD BODIES!

I think life was better when you guys only shagged goats.
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written by harryo, August 09, 2008 12:03:15
There goes our democracy and individual freedom. Must ask Chandra, he will have a lot to say.
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written by tokioRain, August 09, 2008 12:04:59
Ambiga's timing for this forum is suspect, given all the shit flying around currently in this country. Ahh, a nice diversion from the daily grind.
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written by riau, August 09, 2008 12:07:30
Some topics of discussions are just not meant to be discussed openly and publicly. Wisdom should rule in the decision to hold such sensitive discussions openly. Just as well, the extremist sections in the society protesting the organising of the talk reflects some are not ready (=mature)to engage in such a discussion. Their warped mind see such talks as mencabar the status quo. Warped mind people can behave like thugs. Even DSAI pun belum tentu boleh control orang-orang macam ini!?
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written by uxzee, August 09, 2008 12:12:36
UMNO desperately needed some publicity for diversion and also for Malay support and they were given the golden oppurtunity. Ofcourse the police behaved as very obedient dogs.

I guess all MSMs will play out this issue today.
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written by Ramesh, August 09, 2008 12:15:04
I was in the middle east 2 days ago. Met few of my old buddies and staterd talking about politics and religion. All of my friends are muslims. One of them told us a joke. The joke was, a man went to mekah. Upon return at the customs they found a bottle of a bottle of jonney walker in his bag. The answer he gave was, I am an old man, I cant possibly walk around the Khabah, but with my friend jonney, the Khabah rotated in front of me...we all laughed at this joke. I asked him how come he can make a joke about islam. He said he did not, infact he only made fun of a muslim man. This joke is nothing about Islam, but only about a trouble muslim man. Just take the Khabah and replace it with a church or a temple. Friends of these religion will be to a certain extend offended too. He just wanted me to undersatnd one thing only, all religion are good, but not all religious people are good. Having a dialog to discuss about conversion is infact very good as muslims will undersatnd other religion and infact other religion could further undersatnd the muslim and Isalm. Only a bunch of idiots will try to stop this. Are the malaysian muslims so insecure that they cant even talk about their own relogion and at least try to undersatnd the problems the non malaysian muslims are facing? Stupid people!!
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written by chin, August 09, 2008 12:21:06
Its defining events like these that could free the country from extremism embrace.

Unfortunately, the government has no desire to foster a peaceful tolerant society. Disallowing any questions or discussion on Islam only emblazon the radicals.
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written by ctchoolaw, August 09, 2008 12:22:03
This is the scary face of BN and Pakatan - where is the democratic space for an intellectual discourse on Islamic principles and its impact on non-Muslims? The forum was about people who PLAN to embrace Islam ... and its implications. Even that is not possible. I want to see how BN and Pakatan respond to this (especially Pakatan, since PAS is a part of them). http://ctchoolaw.********.com/
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written by futureman, August 09, 2008 12:24:58
Hey guys get smart. ambiga was paid to hold this meeting. This was to boil the malays and muslim blood so that they will vote BN in PP by-elections. Look at her name , she has a Datuk in front. Does it tells you anything. She is a BN stooge and next you will know she is appointed a Fedral court or high court judge. She is a snake and all in Bar Concil who support her are BN snakes. Get wise guys and hold a extra-ordinary Bar Concil EGM and kick her arse off. Go and stalk her and see who she is meeting up with. Why so stuborn must have this meeting and why cancel half way. Cancel lah when objective is meet. Najib will use this when campainging in PP by election. The police even escorted the protesters into the hall to staredown the partipicants of the forum. earlier the CPO of KL warn that any protesters who gather there wil be dispersed etc. Why the double standard, when not dispursing the protestors and also escorting them to the meeting and then asking the Datuk snake lady to stop the meeting. This is all a wayang kulit show by BN with the big help of Bar concil. The Bar concil members who attended the meeting a bunch of double headed BN stooge snakes. See them in the street spit on the faces with all your phelm.
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written by padhma, August 09, 2008 12:25:31
Malaysia wants to discuss with the West on how to bridge the gap between Islamic Nations and the West. Malaysia can't even handle its internal affairs. What a shame. What have this country come to?
Are Malaysians so stupid that they can not engage in intellectual forums.
Today some morons and barbarians have stopped an intellectual forum. Whats next?
Malaysia has effectively lost its credibility in wanting to play a lead role in bridging between Islamic nations and the West.
Now the West will be looiking down on Malaysians with a big grin.
Morons and Barbarians of Malaysia....keep it up.
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written by Bandit, August 09, 2008 12:25:58
Malay Muslims have shown their ugly side again. All this talk about racial integration and respecting one anorther's religion is all cock and bull. Malaysian Muslims are free to do and say whatever they want about non muslims but no one can question them. Malay Muslims are so intolerant and they are themselves to be blamed for the present state of this country. Come to Seremban especially Sunday mornings at Paroi. The mosque starts blasting from morning till late afternoon without taking into consideration of the non muslims living in the area who need a quiet and peaceful morning time to relax and enjoy a day off. This is just one scenario. Such are these Malay muslims. May Allah give them some sense. My wish is that may the day come when all those non muslims who want to become muslims will think twice.

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written by Bosan, August 09, 2008 12:31:38
Kalau UMNONO bincang apa apa sampai keluar keris semuanya boleh. Kalau lain lain parti atau lain bangsa nak bincang sesuatu dengan aman, semuanya tak boleh.Inilah sebab negara ini dikenali sebagai Malaysia boleh atau Bolehland.
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written by fireduck, August 09, 2008 12:59:39
I am not going to talk about the merits of the forum and Islam, or what-nots. But what I wonder is the maturity of the people in power. The Govt is of Third World mentality, fantasizing to be of First World. Or maybe the protestors themselves are backwards in their mental prowess.

Discussions can be moderated, can be kept within guidelines, and can be properly controlled especially in a hall. But by disallowing such discussions we are shown to be really immature even in the 21st century. When will we ever grow up as a nation? Vision 2020? Looking more like a hallucination now with such level of thinking. As the younger generation will say 'SO RETRO!'

It can be more damaging if such discussions are being thrown back and forth in the wilderness of the Internet. Believe that. When will our govt wise up on the new reality?
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written by temanmu, August 09, 2008 13:04:03
RPK's article on "Muslims" says it all!
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written by Wisdom above, August 09, 2008 13:04:37
BN UMNO's instigation & MSM media spin were used to ensure 'all forums will fail'.

Same BN Umno's machinery was used against DSAI now in Permatamg Pauh!

Now same BN Umno's machinery BPR is used against Tok Guru Nik Aziz !

Pakatan Rakyat leaders did an excellent job to defuse tension today.

By the way please consult PR muslim brethen on how to handle forum, lest BN Umno Media spin exploit the issues to cause more confusion.

Syabas Barisan Rakyat.


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written by activepro, August 09, 2008 13:04:59
Dear ambiga,we,the right minded,sane,obedient civilians know your good intentions abt holding this conversion forum.Unfortunately,since March this year,Msia has gone through many unprecedented turbulence and we hv yet seen any positive outcome thus far.To hold such forum at this point in time,even after Najis,Musang n other crooked extremists sounded their warnings is akin to asking for more shit to be thrown at you and the participants.At least you as Head of Lawyers Council can now confirm that this shit govt is full of wriggling worms,leeches and sodomisers.Justice to them is "JUST ICE".Where do you think that a million rm worth of syabu or ice has gone to? Party time at Putrajaya lah!
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written by LEJO, August 09, 2008 13:06:23
Its very simple.............
The forum may reveal some truth.
But a lot of people in power dont want us (rakyat) to know the truth. Thats why they even get the people with the help of the foolish (police)to protest the forum.
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written by chanatak, August 09, 2008 13:40:39


"Jangan cabar?" Why?

Imagine an olympic medal winner warning everybody else .... "Do not challenge what I have achieved, or be ...."

What does it reflect ? Fear of losing, fear of the truth, fear that what you have is not the truth.

Is there truth in what you hold if you do not allow it to be debated? Chinese saying goes ...

"Real gold fears not the fire"






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written by hiro, August 09, 2008 14:12:14
Those who believe that just because the opposition parties like PKR and PAS have said that this is not a good idea does not mean that they are right.

Consider this. This is a civilised forum, where things are discussed without raising any swords, parangs or keris, or threats of soaking them in blood, or cries of burning down mosques in protest.

The issues here are religious, cultural and legal.

It was a forum to UNDERSTAND at first, and then to consider the LEGAL ASPECTS, and perhaps to brainstorm possible solutions.

How a discussion could translate into creating distrust and tension, save and except it is the will of political parties to make it so?

We the minorities in Malaysia have great hopes that the opposition parties such as PKR and PAS would be the sound of reason, to allow the discourse to go on, so long as it is civilised.

Today, we are vastly frustrated, and in doubt as to whether Pakatan with majority MPs in PKR and PAS combined, would actually want to usher in reformation in Malaysia that encompass the essential elements of right of expression and assembly.

And PKR and PAS in saying no is playing into the hands of UMNO, being the first party to say no to the forum. One could guess why they are so concerned, perhaps they think in terms of the slippery slope that could come out of such forum - more people having awareness, louder calls for conversion out of Islam etc...

Some commentators as the Bar Council to be realistic. Read this: I ask these commentators to be realistic. If a civilised dialogue does not take off even in such restrictive environment (registration of participants, behind closed doors in a Bar Council building), then it never ever will. And read this also: if the political parties are so afraid that people will convert out of Islam, they are displaying sorely a lack of confidence in their own religion.

All political parties save the minorities within the federal government and the opposition have taken the country one step backwards today. You can be proud of yourselves that this episode is over. But you have set a dangerous precedent for yourselves. If something "sensitive" can be overturned by mob rule, then anything can, including thousands of UMNO people marching and trying to break into private compound demanding that Anwar be incarcerated no matter the decision of the High Court in the upcoming Sodomy II Trial.

If Badawi has any balls left, he should institute investigation and prosecution against the mob. If he does not, it is also a justification for Anwar's supporters to take to the streets and trespass the Prime Minister's Department should Anwar be convicted.
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written by Jit Dharma, August 09, 2008 14:16:55
The UMNO sons of the devil have been stoking this particular fire for days,
and we know what they are up to. When will these bastards ever learn? Any
blood spilled will be on their heads and when the time comes they will pay
big time.
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written by Kopi37, August 09, 2008 14:24:41
Looked at the scenario, there are so many bulls at a gate, the Bar Council is really at a dilemma of voicing out the impartiality of laws between the civilized and the archaic religious law! This is the type of mindsets in prevail in this claimed to be democratic, freedom in speech and belief Country which day by day is becoming clownish as much as a laughing stalk in the modernized global village! When the civilized citizenry look at us Malaysian, we are like the baboons in the undeveloped native Country! Ho, ho, ho is what we can expect whenever we make our appearance in the global platform!

Knowing the existence of such uncivilized law of draconian in this part, should we not think over 1000 times before one decides to convert to such religion for the sake of not concurrent to the belief but merely forced to convert for reason of love and marriage?! One must always aware, once getting into this dead end ally, it's just like putting the final nail in his own coffin and there is hardly any turning back! Beware of wolf, no trespassing or you will be dead perhaps will help those imprudent decision makers from plunging into the pool of suicidal!...Sigh!
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written by temenggong, August 09, 2008 14:33:53
Fear!

Generally, Malays are cowards. They cannot stand up to facts and reality, so they try and intimidate and threaten. They will issue challenges and draw lines. Only cowards do that. With political backing and state sponsorship, they can be brave and reckless, like in 5/13 and Kg Medan. Once they realised that Singapore cannot be contained, the cowards ejected it. Only in numbers are they brave.

The BN rule this last 45 years is one that is based on fear and intimidation.

Once you call their bluff, they capitulate. We saw that before in WW2. We saw that in 1832 in the Naning Wars. Shoot the main guy and they all capitulate.

Their intimidation of Singapore didn't work, and taking the legal route to the Hague too didn't work. They are even more afraid now since they realise the world is not as before and big powers will intervene, as in Panama, Afghanistan and Iraq. Cries of 'sovereignity' won't work anymore.

With March 8th, Malaysians have lost that fear and intimidation does not work anymore. Now it is Umno that is intimidated and they have no response. On the 26th of August they will once again find out that they have indeed lost the malay support, and it was not a passing mirage.

Lets just tell them the constitution gives all malays the freedom of religion. Freedom to enter and exit as they wish without hindrance! That the shariah courts are trying to regulate it is utter nonsense and will not stand up before upright judges. It will not stand up before upright muslim scholars too, as recently pronounced by the Grand Mufti of Egypt! All muslims the world over are free to choose their religion.
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written by Uncorruptible, August 09, 2008 14:34:38
More of umno's dirty and evil work for sure!
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written by DanDan, August 09, 2008 14:50:38
PDRM, what are you good for??? Just a bunch of cowards. You can't even stop a small bunch of protesters from forcing into a building. Or are you purposely releasing them into the building inorder to disrupt the proceedings. You dirty blooding bunch were so good in controlling/pushing back a few hundreds/thousands of protesters but can't control these small group?
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written by gundohing, August 09, 2008 14:51:17
These protesters are from Non-Governmental Organisation headed by UMNO people. Just cut the drama please. It's not worth the 10 minutes coverage by RTM1 and TV3 over last night's prime time news.
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written by jaykay, August 09, 2008 14:51:51
For the barbarian bastards who still live in the dark ages what they know about freedom of speech and human rights.
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written by alarcarte, August 09, 2008 15:00:06
written by padhma, August 09, 2008 | 12:25:31
Are Malaysians so stupid that they can not engage in intellectual forums.
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Sadly, more than 50% of the Malaysians are. They don't know the meaning of FORUMS and a century ago the word FORUM did not even feature in the vocabulary.

Since at a very young age they were brain washed that only ISLAM is the greatest religion in the world and they were forced fed with religious propaganda, they almost knew next to nothing about other religions, especially the Muslims Malay in Penisular Malaysia. This explains why some of them went to Indonesia to make bombs to carry attack on the infidels.
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written by miwaki, August 09, 2008 15:00:28
Finally,our police have to give way to hooligans.In Malaysia,you can do anything you want so long as you have the numbers,even the police are scare of numbers.Their C4 s are only applied to ladies,not hoologans or fanatics !
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written by jaykay, August 09, 2008 15:00:40
For this barbarian bastards you just show them the way to some pleasure in the form of money or women, all their slogan like "Hidup Islam" and "Jagan Cabar Islam" will flee off from the nearest windows.
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written by bumiputeri, August 09, 2008 15:05:01
TUAN GURU NIK AZIZ,

I have these qustions for you. Please kindly, if you have a few minutes to spare, I would really appreaciate it, together with all the non-Muslims in this country, if you could answer these questions.


1.Why non-Islam religions are not allowed to publish any article in Malay???
Is the government scared that the Muslims will read them and get influenced
and convert out of Islam???? Are Muslims in this country that weak??? I have
taken so many sejarah Islam papers and got A in many of them, understood the
beauty of Islam and respect it, but still, as a Hindu, never felt like
converting, as I have realised that all religions are equally beautiful!!!


2. Why non-Muslims are made to take Islamic papers at schools, colleges and
universities and the Muslims are never encouraged to take papers about the
non-Islam religions, i.e. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism,
etc....??? Are Muslims scared that thier IMAN will not be strong and they
will convert out, especially so that the other religions are also equally
beautiful????

3. Why Islam is taught officially in schools for Muslims, but nothing is taught
for the non-Muslims about their own religions???
Our first Rukun Negara is "Kepercayaan Kepada Tuhan". But then, how come,
the non-Muslims are not given the opportunity to study their own religions
during class times????? Is this fair to the non-Muslims???

4. Why the whole maintenance of Islam in this country, i.e. books, teachers,
buiding of mosques, Imams and other Islamic organisations and their workers,
are all being paid via 90% non-Muslims taxpayers money in this country. Is
that HALAL or HARAM????

5. Why when a non-Muslim convert into Islam, his/her non-Islam family has no
right to know about his/her conversion????? Is this true Islamic
teachings????? Did Prophet Mohamad agree to this kind of conversion????

6. Why when a non_Muslim convert to Islam, he has/ or given the right to
convert his young children as well, when they don't know what are doing at
that tender age or when the mother or the father of the child or the spouse
of the new convert object to that and can actually take the family away and
feed them appropriately should they wish not to convert. What is the
solution in Quran about this problem?????

TOK GURU, saya percaya ramai kaum bukan Muslimin di negara ini serta di seluruh dunia yang mempunyai persoalan yang sama. Kami akan cukup berterima kasih jika TOK GURU boleh menjelaskan kemusykilan ini.

TERIMA KASIH!!!
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written by DatoSeri, August 09, 2008 15:09:43
Parti Keadilan Rakyat's Zulkifli Noordin (Kulim Bandar baru MP of PAS) who was one of those leading the protest. Being a lawyer, yet pocessing a timid mind.

Discussion and forum on opinions/issues will bring benefits to openess and humanity. We can't agree with such a timid minded persons who claimed to be muslims of muslims. What a SHAME to the PAS - member of the PR coalition.

Shameful act of these protestors!
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written by lembu susu, August 09, 2008 15:20:01
Why all the hoo-haa about? Why felt threatened in the 1st place? U mean non-muslims can be converted to muslims and muslims can never be converted to other religion? Even God don't force you to believe in Him, and you want to force others to believe in your god. Why break-up families? Why take away dead bodies? Why don't hold protest against corruption; especially the murder of Altantuya? Why so narrow minded, cannot even discuss a matter civilly, ...never seen such an insecured ppl.
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written by mikewang, August 09, 2008 15:25:30
Those who who are worried that their God can be harmed by mortals are very mindful that their God cannot take care of Himself and need mortals to do the job for Him.

ie. they are playing God and playing with eternal fires.
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written by taxi90, August 09, 2008 15:27:27
When HINDRAF mounted a protest, they got bombed, watered, drenched with chemicals, bashed up and arrested.
When this bunch of Islamic NGOS mounted a protest, the police gave a private 'escort'
When HINDRAF was chastised, the police would say that they were threatening public peace, causing riot/ruining businessess etc the whole lot of shit.
While in this case, the police nicely 'advised' the forum to pack up and go because 'we can't protect you'.
This country is neck deep in shit. I agree fully with what RPK has said -This country is full of hypocrites and the majority of them are muslims
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written by FFT, August 09, 2008 15:38:13
I hear from my sources that several Islamofascists, most likely from PAS Youth, shouted slogans of "Death to Jews!" outside the Bar Council forum.

Malays dicking around with religion --> aggravates normal citizens --> hold a forum to discuss these issues --> terrorist threats from more Muslims --> end of the day, Jews get bashed for no reason.

The world will rejoice when the day comes where Islam is cleanly wiped out from existence.
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written by schlaufox, August 09, 2008 15:57:35
The way the police handled the crowd showed that they are working together. Well, in Malaysia that´s the way it is, if you are not a yes-man, then you are harrassed and blocked in every direction. But if you are a ´kiss-the-ass-man, then you are `escorted´ to disrupt anything.
It´s a shame, Malaysia has protrayed herself as a tolerant, progressive Islamic nation to the world but if forums such as this cannot be organised and practical questions answered then please keep very quiet. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent. Show people that your religion is real ! NOT ONLY HEAVENLY MINDED BUT OF NO EARTHLY USE!. If you do, perhaps you will find that you may have more genuine converts.
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written by Stormquest, August 09, 2008 16:21:54
According to the Star Online, "The police also found two bottles of alcohol by the building that were believed to be unlit Molotov cocktails".
http://www.thestar.com.my/news...ec=nation

What the hell? And the police escorted these morons into the building?



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written by Hello Keithy, August 09, 2008 16:32:01
The label "ketuanan melayu" is merely to protect the law of the jungle. When will this country ever learn? When will this country ever grow ? Answer - Never. Again the police acted not against the protesters but the forum. Seems like the police and the protesters are snakes and rats in the same pot.
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written by kurangfaham, August 09, 2008 16:34:02
The issue is why the bloody police never take any drastic action against the protesters. It seems the police too took part as protesters. This is Malays sia, Semua boleh sebab Malaysia Boleh.
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written by agadam magadam, August 09, 2008 16:36:27
A handful of uneducated barbarians-the protestors... with the Barbaric gomen backing them up with polis protection...The forum has got nothing to do with the Malays/Muslims in general..
It's meant for the unfortunate non-muslims who encounter problems when they convert to Islam.. Spouses of those who convert and so on..
Nothing to do with the Malay-Muslims... This bloody Gomen is forever stirring up this sort of shit to create trouble and then blame us, the non-Muslims, for provocation of Malays..
Generally, the majority of Malays in this country get along with the non-Muslims... It's only that handful of shitheads....with BN's support and instigation...
When DSAI comes into Power soon, all these problems will be a thing of the past..So.. Let's all make sure that our Honourable Dato' Seri Anwar Ibrahim becomes the Prime Minister soon...very soon...!!
The PAS supporters were there mainly to prevent any trouble amongst the participants of the Forum and the Polis dogs...
LONG LIVE ANWAR IBRAHIM...!!!!!!!! Cepat masuk Parliament, Bro...!!!
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written by kurangfaham, August 09, 2008 16:38:46
The Kulim Bandar Baru MP from Keadilan has spoiled the chances of Anwar to win in Permatang Pau By-Election. His undemocratic action has effected the non muslim voters to swing towards the Barisan Nasional. Now it's becames the talk of the town.
Tak percaya tunggu dan lihat.
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written by HL Ooi, August 09, 2008 16:45:33
If things like this can happen today in Malaysia, with the participation of politicians from both sides of the political divide, then the vision of a developed country by 2020 will not come true.
If the Muslims in this country are wondering why the West looks with condescension and disgust at Islam, they should reflect on the actions of the mob today. Muslims are their own worst advocates.
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written by bugisman, August 09, 2008 16:48:56
was any rioter been arrested? no?
expected. the rioters are umno ppl...so they can do illegal assembly, demonstrations and even escorted by the police into the hal to create havoc...

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written by riau, August 09, 2008 16:56:30
DSAI should severely punish the KBB MP from keadilan. Why not?

What is it that ails the malay-muslim crowd/mob to prevent the forum to go on? Apa yang mereka takutkan? Is the sentiment and thuggish behaviour silently felt by the majority of the other malays who were not able to attend the protest? Sebahagian besar orang-orang Melayu just cannot live and let live. Why must you be suspicious?

The inter community and inter religious relationships in Malaysia are slowly being torn apart. These Malays who melatah with their protest show immaturity and lack adab. Yes, they are biadab! DSAI will have a very hard time balancing pulls and push from the various ethnic groups. Will he lean towards the Malay majority or the non-Malays will be played out again?
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written by mrbean, August 09, 2008 17:01:01
Why aren't the rioters /protesters arrested ? They are the trouble makers.
Why do they feel provoked ? What is wrong with discussing such issues in the forum ? This is again a demonstration of the inferiority complex in such people... instead of participating in the forum (because they lack the intellect), they turn to empty threats, hysetrical and emotional verbal abuse because they feel that they are threatened. History has proven that blind faith has led many people towards this road.

Well, carry on while the rest of us improve our maturity and intellect.
Just look at Singapore, they are many times better than us because they are run by better people...
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written by kurangfaham, August 09, 2008 17:02:33
I was a supporter of PKR but now I'm going campaign against PKR candidate. all just because the bloody KBB MP.
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written by mrbean, August 09, 2008 17:03:05
By the way, is there a law in malaysia which says we can't discuss about Islam ? WTF is this ?
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written by kurangfaham, August 09, 2008 17:18:12
It was a romour about the KBB MP that he is arunning dopg of UMNO and it seems he is going join UMNO very soon.
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written by InEffective, August 09, 2008 17:21:41

Reassuring to see racist bullies and cowards hiding behind the skirts of religion.
What else can you expect from cowards ?

The prostitution of religion by the so called persecutors is old - and all have known for decades now - its all about cowards needing some pretext to secure coalitional power (in this case using religion as a binding instrument)

Those who have genuine grievances and threats from religious bigots, should continue to discuss their pressures and threats openly - its their legitimate right.

Don't worry about the criminal politicians and their goons - in each country, the rakyat has dealt with the cowards.
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written by shiokguy, August 09, 2008 17:33:03
I cry for you Malaysia

If this is how a civil society function, I have no hope for My Malaysia..
I cry for you Malaysia..

Shiok Guy!
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written by angkasawan bocor, August 09, 2008 17:34:21
Wonder if there really is religious tolerance in this country, as boasted by the gomen. If issues cannot be discussed in a frank manner, no issues will be resolved. Everything will only be swept under the carpet and one day the differences between the followers of various faiths will just blow up and consume the country.

It's time these people stop being fanatics and extremists and come out from the coconut shell. The world is more than just the religion. These people should be exposed to the challenges and changes outside their sanctuary.

The gomen should help open up the minds of its people, and not to reinforce their self enclosure and suppress the efforts to introduce logical and practical thinking.

PS Why did the police not break up the demo as they did to other demos in the past (Bersih, Hindraf, etc.) but instead breaking up a peaceful discussion?
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written by mob1900, August 09, 2008 17:40:52
The Defenders of Extremism and Non-Dialogue
===========================================

Pic from MalaysiaKini.com

Pic from MalaysiaKini.com

Pic from MalaysiaKini.com
Doesn't all the 'NGO's sounds familiar?
PERKIDA, GPMS, Pembela and etc.

Are these truly the self-claimed 'Defenders'?
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written by zhugeliang, August 09, 2008 17:41:13
I kinda of feel very insecure living in Malaysia with people who shout "babi" and "balik China" and they are from PKR??? What the f***! And are those PKRs (or UMNOs) being sensitive with other religions in Malaysia, demolishing temples last time? What kind of mentality of people we have in Malaysia? We said we can go up the space (by hitching a ride) and yet our mind is way back to age of barbarians. Other people can go into Islam but cannot go out of Islam? Everyone has the freedom to choose their religion. Even in Indonesia, there is no such rule that nobody can leave Islam if I am not mistaken. Let's be fair, Chinese and Indians do not control what religion they choose to believe, so why Malaysians once converted to Islam, is not able to go out if they are not happy being in Islam? I am not saying Islam is bad. All religions are good and it is just a matter of personal and spiritual choice and happiness to choose one's religion or being a free thinker. Who set this law in this world? Is it written in black and white? Or it is just UMNO ploy to control the Muslims so that they have something to fight and shout when come election time. Is this the only agenda they can fight for or they like their own pocket and interests more. Islam is just a cover-up for UMNO own immoral actions?
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written by capcomangel, August 09, 2008 18:03:27
dissapointing how the muslim people react.even pas protesting it...pakatan rakyat have enough power but why dont bar cousil invited such pas people come talk.

say really.this few year non muslim have serious issue about those people who convert to muslim without family actknowledge.the most shocked issue is "stealling dead boddies".we non muslim already angry and sad about this and need the solution to resolve this matter with fair to both side.

look like pas have join with cronies cronies omno to play racist issue.
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written by timberguy, August 09, 2008 18:18:27
I am disappointed with readers' comments above... Have we not mature yet? Whatever one personal opinion or preference is, we should also respect the feelings of others. Most of Pakatan Rakyat leaders advised the forum to be held behind closed doors and be closed to public. If we are having an intellectual discourse, let's have it, no need to shout about it. PAS was not going to object if it was held behind closed doors. However, BAR council lacked wisdom, tactfulness and sensitivity and went ahead with public forum, despite numerous advices to the contrary. Don't blame PAS or YB Zulkifli, they were expressing their stands. Blame the organizers and the racist student organization led by UMNO's Reezal Marican for the chaos created and damage caused. Grow up, Malaysians! We still must support PR for the new government.
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written by Motherchell, August 09, 2008 18:21:31
From the way it looked -- there is a hand from the powers that be . The placards were so prepared in advance so as to stir the religious and race sentiments . The PDRM was handling and soaring with the "angels"!!

These are the types who have been bred for the last 50 years --- the net return will be ??---- they the UPutras up there fanned these sentiments wherever and whenever they could safeguard their seat in power. The poor non learned Malays were used like today to carry on their agenda.

The powers were not interested in creating FARISH NOORS , AZLY RAHMANS,DIN MERICANS, NIK AZIZS, RPKs ETC . THESE ARE THE BIGOTS WHO WILL DESTROY MALAYSIA AS A NATION. The Children of the Umnoputras will come back from overseas one day to continue the plunder -- and these poor Malays , will be used to the max for all their acts. Maybe -- this can go on -- as the Nation is on Automode , thanks to Petronas , after the wells are dry ???--- their next generation wont be able to savior, they may be forced to the backwaters to plant their own vegetables .

These are the kinds who give ISLAM a bad name . From RPK's articles on truth and Integrity of this great Religion , --- not one religious bigot came forward to challenge RPK. This is due to the misinformed ways they have been leading all the while for 50 years .The so called educated lot like , Najib , Paklah etc are the real enemies of ISLAM .
We should in time get the top scholars to debate these scums . Malaysia's words on a podium in front of the League of Nations wont matter as much as Indonesia, Egypt,Lebanon,Jordan,Palestine, Turkey etc .
The reason ??, we have become a Pariah State!!!!. These brother States will keep us at arms reach, -- to top it, we don't have Malaysians like Azly Rahman , Farish Noor etc to speak for us -- as they are always pushed aside as enemies of the ones in Power and Islam.!

The speakers we have are either , butt nippers , rapists , or scums who know nuts about what the topic is !!!.( Ref, cant remember the date, there was a wonderful debate , on the religion by top Muslim scholars and leaders from all over the world on BBC , The DOHA Debates) -- (If any one you mates could get this , pl post it on to MT.-- THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!)

A point to note in this pallete, the Bar council is already infested with moles like Shafee Abdullah and his likes . So anything good that has to be discussed by members with Integrity uphold the Constitution to moderate , amend for the good of the Nation will be sabotaged with other agendas . The joke of the day is ---- a guy like Shafee Abddulah is a committee Office bearer in the HUMAN RIGHTS group--- when he is a true enemy of the Laws of the land. Malaysia truly boleh!!!!!!

The Country is in a sorry state!--- words cant express the shameful sequences THATS GOING ON !!!!!!!
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written by panca, August 09, 2008 18:27:46
Mahathir have seen and used the power of ignorance of these people as religion was a powerful tool to mind their minds....they are as attached as what an umbilical cord to a foetus, albeit even at times, dead ones. Congratulations to believers.

Welcome to cave mentrality, welcome home.

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written by mikewang, August 09, 2008 18:37:57
Extracted from Malaysiakini.

In a rare display of solidarity, rival Muslim groups today put aside their political differences and joined forces in protest of a controversial forum on the Federal Constitution.
MCPX

Although they appeared to have a uniform objective, the crowd appeared to have split into two entities - Umno-linked and opposition-linked - as the protest drew on.

Some 100 protesters led by Muslim Students Front (GPMS) - an Umno-linked organisation - were the first to arrive at the Bar Council headquarters in Kuala Lumpur, the venue of the forum, at about 8.30am.
[...]
At about 8.45am, another group of about 100 protesters led by PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub marched to the venue unexpectedly.

Jarring chants ensued as both groups yelled two different series of slogans.
[...]

From the speeches, glaring differences in the two groups' approach again came to the fore.

A GPMS leader who spoke repeatedly stoked the crowd into storming the Bar Council building if the forum does not end by 10am - the time given by the protesters to the forum organisers.

This was echoed by repeated calls of “rempuh (charge)” by the angry crowd.

Sensing the rise in tension however, PAS leaders who took over the loudhailer and repeatedly reminded the crowd to remain calm and sit on the road until the forum is cancelled.

[...]

PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu MP Zulkifli Noordin however broke ranks with his opposition colleagues when he called on the crowd to storm the building should the forum continue.

“If you don’t hear from us at 10am, you should all storm the building,” he said, before he led a four-member delegation representing the protesters to state their position to the forum organisers.

[...]

---------------------

PKR leaders,
I hope you listen well.

The right to protest is norm in a civilised society and should be respected.
However, we don't want violence, for whatever reasons.

We have a PKR MP advocating violence, the same as those UMNO scumbags.
Perhaps this MP is like a leopard which has not changed his spots yet, eventhough he is now in the company of lions.
I am sure many of us would like to see him reprimanded or else in the next election you'll find us remembering this incident and will campaign against him, just like the UMNO scumbag in Sungai Petani who threatened to burn down a building in downtown KL in a UMNO held demonstration.

Absolutely no advocation of violence please !!!
We are the new Malaysians.
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written by Mata_Pena, August 09, 2008 18:40:42
Bandit:
Malay Muslims have shown their ugly side again. All this talk about racial integration and respecting one anorther's religion is all cock and bull. Malaysian Muslims are free to do and say whatever they want about non muslims but no one can question them. Malay Muslims are so intolerant and they are themselves to be blamed for the present state of this country. Come to Seremban especially Sunday mornings at Paroi. The mosque starts blasting from morning till late afternoon without taking into consideration of the non muslims living in the area who need a quiet and peaceful morning time to relax and enjoy a day off. This is just one scenario. Such are these Malay muslims. May Allah give them some sense. My wish is that may the day come when all those non muslims who want to become muslims will think twice.


Temenggong:
Fear!

Generally, Malays are cowards. They cannot stand up to facts and reality, so they try and intimidate and threaten. They will issue challenges and draw lines. Only cowards do that.


These statements really bug me. Dato' Seri Anwar Ibrahim is a practising Malay Muslim. Does this make him an INCONSIDERATE and COWARD?!! I'm a Malay Muslim who hates UMNO goons. I'm with DSAI since day one and was even beaten by FRU in 1998/99 because of my participation and belief in his principles and what he represents. As so many other my Malay friends. What does that make us? Cowards too? What about all those Malays who fought and died defending this country?! If you have balls, why don't you go and face their sons and tell how cowards they are straight to their face !!! Generalising things are very dangerous.
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written by aris, August 09, 2008 19:46:34
The Greatness of Hinduism
No country can ever be as great as Mother India. Though India is predominantly a Hindu country all major religions are allowed to be practised with dignity and respect. Needless to say that GOD always smiles on India because HE lives there. Nobody can deny that India is the only country on earth where every now and then a great soul comes forth to give humanity valuable lessons on the greatness of all religions.

The Fragrance of Hinduism
‘Hinduism is the religion of the Hindus. It is the oldest of all living religions. Hinduism is not a man made religion. It was not founded by a single person. It was not based by a set of dogmas preached by a particular set of teachers. It was not started as a system like Islam and Christianity. It was the product of the seers of the Vedas. It was developed from age to age by the teachings of Avatharas, Rishis, the Vedas, the Upanishards, the Gita and the Itihasas. It will exist as long as the world will last.” - Swami Vivekananda

Who is a Hindu?
One who has earned the grace of God and walks in His shadow. He is a COMPLETE human being!!!
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written by chiongguo, August 09, 2008 19:50:59
Once there were two gallant knight riding along a country road. Both came upon a shield hung up on a tree. One knight claimed that the insignia belong to his county and he claimed ownership. The other said that no in fact the insignia belong to his county. They argued and started fighting. This went on for some time without anyone winning or giving way and then both fell on the side of the opponent and for the first time they saw that both were wrong.

The shield was indeed not a shield but only a county sign demarcating the various counties.

On the one hand we have some oversensitive muslims who knew no other way than threats and violence. Instead of bringing honour to Islam they had shamed the very religion they were defending. If this were a religion of peace, praytell what is violence ?

On the other hand why did the Bar council brough up such a sensitive topic at such an important juncture of our country history ? Were someone in the Bar council manipulated as some had suspected when Abdullah used the Bar council to organise a special function to award ex-gratia payment to all the judges that were unceremoniously dismissed ?

As this issue has been brewing for some time why couldn't they wait for a more receptive government that may come to power in the not too distant future.

If the muslims felt that they have a case in what they had been doing all these while then present it in a rational and civilised manner. This forum is so important that it allows meaningful dialog to take place so that all who call malaysia home can at least feel secure that we will not resort to extreme and irrational actions like what was exhibited today.

This dialogue can still be carried out through podcast in the internet and I think it should be done, maybe after a new government has been installed. In this case no one can disrupt such an important dialogue - a dialogue that may even set the precedence for future dialogues.
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written by budakindia, August 09, 2008 20:09:20
Wah another one to the list of Islam Hadhari! Organize terrorism against peaceful forums! smilies/angry.gif
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written by inoi, August 09, 2008 20:55:28
SAYA SOKONG SEPENUHNYA APA YANG DI TULIS OLEH BUMIPUTERI.
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written by Malaysiaputra, August 09, 2008 21:03:41
As a non Muslim, these protesters only give me a very negative view of Islam.

It gives me the impression that Islam is a religion of fear; fear of believers leaving the religion; fear of people making negative statement of Islam; fear that they do not appear "holier than thou" ;fear of showing tolerance; fear of accepting that each person's walk with his God is personal; fear of ...........

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written by Daryl, August 09, 2008 21:03:57
Sometimes you wonder what happen if religion and politic are in the same bed together. This is the reason why Islam is big but least understood outside of the religion itself ot those praticing them. Every attempt to a dialog is seen as attempt to marginalize them. Take a leaf from te Saudi's emirate because he finally attempt to let others in. You wonder sometimes.... God is great but human interpret them with their own idiotic ways.
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written by Sabahfan, August 09, 2008 21:21:07
SELF PROCLAIM defenders kah?

atau

SELF PROCLAIM KETUANAN MELAZUT.... KE KETUANAN ISLAM???

I AM SIMPLY FFFFFFFFG FED UP WITH THESE HIPOCRITES.

WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, GOD THEMSELVES????

GO TO HELLL AND BURNT THERE...
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written by alarcarte, August 09, 2008 21:44:15
written by FFT, August 09, 2008 | 15:38:13
I hear from my sources that several Islamofascists, most likely from PAS youth, shouted slogans of "Death to Jews!" outside the Bar Council forum.

======================================================= ===================
Any Jews present at the Forum? Bloody mother ****ers, for without the Jews, Christianity and Islam won't exist today! Many of the latest technologies and gadgets won't exist without the Jews as well. Jesus Christ (ISA), Abraham (IBRAHIM), Moses (MUSA) are all Jews. Since these prophets are Jews and since they hate the Jews so much, they might as well erase these names from the Holy Koran.
I am not siding with the Jews, but I think the Jews are brilliant people.

This is the problem with majority of the Malay Muslims in Malaysia today, that is they don't think with their brain, they only think with their COCK! Thats why there are so many sex scandals, throwing of babies in rubbish bins, play-play with the Bangla and Parkis and lately Africans, they did not even realise Malay society as a whole are in deep shit and need some true Malays with brains to fix it.
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written by cutejams2004, August 09, 2008 21:56:55
at last, pkr and pas showed their true colours...salutation to ambiga-she was the man of the day..and to those who thinks the bar council is doing this 4 umno, think again..they were the ones who were all out for freedom, democracy and supported hindraf evn b4 PR came..they tried to do this forum to stop ppl from simply converting and then having thier bodies snatched away...the true coward here was zulkifli..such an immature lot..prolly he was exercising his rights of freedom, but then the bar council has its rights to do so too. And bout the blue uniforms, when it was hindraf, they used water cannons, when its the malays, they say it was a peaceful demo! double standards.. They speak as if malays r the pnly ones who f feelings n the rest dont f feelings! truth to say, those fanatic malays f to grow up coz if they dont, malaysia will be part of the third world in no time! n to those who said go to hell to the non muslims, remember, with only malays in malaysia, malaysia is no where. without indians n chinese, malaysia is doomed...u think non muslims will go to hell just bcoz we r of not the same religion? dream on..hell n heaven is based on ones own sins..it can only be judged by God, in whichever religion..
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written by vajra, August 09, 2008 22:22:32
All religions are basically good. Only those stupid and selfish believers would misinterpret the teachings for the good of devils.
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written by Beng How, August 09, 2008 22:52:57
I am amazed by the interview by the TV with one Pak Haji. This Pak Haji I think is educated within the 4 walls only and not exposing to outside his house within Malaysia. Hey, don't say Malay has been "sabar" for so long. Who actually has been "sabar" for so long when every time, the Malay continued to blow the racial issues. This is a forum to discuss about the law and not the right of any race lah. Damn stupid Pak Haji and the TV broadcast the interview also damn fxxking stupid as TV should know how to filter the interview. Such a statement should not be broadcast on TV. So, now, who the hell is raising the racial issue ??? smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif
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written by cta, August 09, 2008 23:05:33
r we ready 4 a malaysia malaysian??????? PKR seem 2 say it that way.but look at their members n PAS??? non racist my foot.look at tv news how there react? smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif no body is fighting 4 the people,there r oso fighting 4 their pocket. smilies/grin.gif
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written by SeriousLy, August 09, 2008 23:11:43
Al Queda in Malaysia! That's what I see in this latest episode! MALAYSIA AFTER HALF CENTURY; THE FOUNDATION AND POLICIES OF BN IS WRONG THAT IS HEADING TOWARDS BREEDING CORRUPTED, GREEDY, UNETHICAL, LAWLESS AND UNEDUCATED INDIVIDUALS! WHAT MALAYSIA NEEDS IS TOTAL CHANGE IN POLICIES! IF NOT THIS COUNTRY WILL NOT PROGRESS AND WILL NOT BE INHABITABLE FOR OUR GRAND CHILDREN BY THE NEXT COMING HALF CENTURY! WHAT POLICIES? ONE MAIN POLICY: EDUCATION!
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written by peace, August 09, 2008 23:21:09
Beijing Olympic with this time title: ONE WORLD ONE DREAM with peace and smile

I was so touched with the message given by the organiser but after finished watching the opening ceremony I am just realised that I am in a RACIST country Malaysia where the umnok only champion for One Nation One Malay RACE only, sigh!!! Pergi mampuslah!

Otak siapa yang masih RACIST walaupun negara kita sudah 50 tahun merdeka, lebih baik orang ini dibuang negara .. Malulah masih ada bangsat ni dengan otak tak siuman. Negara lain sudah maju pesat tapi negara kita especially umnok masih champion pada bangsat dan agama. Ketinggaln zaman sudah orang umnok
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written by lynn, August 09, 2008 23:27:35
Religion is emotional.

Many of these protesters need to learn humility, an near impossible task, of course. Be humble abt your religion. Be confident abt your religion. If your religion is the greatest and your God is that All Supreme Being, why the fcuk He need you mortals to defend Him? Do you see anyone defending the sun? Every morning the sun comes up no matter what those cock-suckers are threatening us non-Muslims. There is no God & his existence cannot be proven except thru' blind faith.

See, corruption is okay. Discussions abt the rights of a non-Muslim spouse after the other half is converted to Islam is not okay. Now you see, how ****-up this country is. Malaysia is truly doomed.

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written by wood, August 09, 2008 23:29:08
Imagine a country where members of the bar council cannot be allowed to hold a forum !

smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif
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written by Commonsenses, August 09, 2008 23:32:05
Guys, this incident is bound to happen, read RPK articles, read what he says about the Malays.....believe me he is right.
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written by pedagogical, August 09, 2008 23:34:07
I thought a "forum" means "discussion"? Or does a forum means "questioning"? The forum was supposed to be held to discuss & to hear the views of ppl who are facing problems due to their conversions & now they no longer believe in it? I thought it was platform to help these ppl to solve their problems since malaysia has a dual law system.How on earth will they solve their problems if there's no solution? Let these ppl live in misery?
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written by lynn, August 09, 2008 23:38:42
The govt is definitely behind this : look at the picture of a Malay woman chatting with another, holding a huge banner with words imprinted across "AWAS Persatuan Awam, Jangan Main Api!"

To make banners like those, you need time ahead, to give at least one week's notice. So that so-called Forum was intended to be held to stir up emotions. Bravo, Umno. You won this time round. But Malaysia is confirmed a pariah state in the eyes of the world. Not that those retarded protesters care anyway for world opinion.
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written by Daryl, August 09, 2008 23:49:07
I actually like this Zulklifi Nor guy from Kulim. But, if what was reported is really what he said about the leadership must be a Muslim I am really dissapointed.
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written by InEffective, August 10, 2008 00:21:28

Remember, overwhelmingly it has been the politicians who seed and virally promote racism, religious persecution, fear, division with deliberate organized campaigns. (this is not unique to malaysia or to islam - other nations and other religions have exploited this weakness of the faithful or believers)

Its a tried proven guaranteed-to-work and very cost-effective technique to purposefully swing advantage to the despicable filthy polluted politicians for the politicians self-interests.

racism is much easier to achieve the politicians desired self-satisfactions this way - they don't actually have to deliver benefit and results to the peoples to realize their control domination and wealth exploitation - all you have to do is deliver hate and fear (how hard is that)

The losers out of this on all sides is the people - the politicians win.

So attacking any race on a generalized basis is effectively shooting yourself (and your families) in the foot. The ones who should be 'shot' at the instigators who seek to take advantage.

legitimate discourse and debate regarding religion and racial pressure should be supported by all (to prevent any person from suffering injustice or injury). If you don't respect another person's rights, don't expect that person to respect your.

Don't fall for politicians tricks and chicanery.(your kids will pay the price).
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written by Fart Fart Wah, August 10, 2008 00:43:34
This must be the work of that MAD MUFTI HASSARANI who one day surRounded the church in IPOH with a few thousand monkeys who came down from the trees to see if some of their monkeys were being converted to humans...

Hassarani then put the blame on a female monkey and said the monkey was mad.
the police like today looked..looked...and never did catch or do anything to stop it ..and this is the result..

SOME GET EDUCATED IN RELIGION TO BECOME UNEDUCATED..this group is is the uneducated LOT 'UMNO BIGOTS AND PAS' THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.

The bloody fooL who converted to Islam and hid and is protected is never questioned. WHY DIDN'T you Hasarani explain to this new convert that it is better for hi to talk to his wife seek permission and maybe even get her to see the good of Islam???and maybe even convert her..

Now you have used ISLAM TO BREAK UP A FAMILY.Does ALLAH WANT THIS?????..and this bloody fool is hiding under Islamic laws.another Mamak who will later demand to be a MELAYU because his DDNA has changed... What about the kid??? Won't the kid be confused and unsure about all this????
DOES ALLAH GIVE CHILDREN THAN DO THIS TO THEM? break up a family and confuse children??? NO NO NO this is UMNO"s Allah and PAS" ALLAH

SO IS ISLAM USED DIRECTLY TO DIVORCE ANOTHER'S WIFE OR HUSBAND OF ANOTHER RELIGION???

DID ALLAH ASK YOU TO STEAL THE BODY AND BURY??? COME ON MAN IF ALLAH KNEW HE WAS A MUSLIM...DOES IT MATTER TO HIM WHERE HE IS BURIED?? YOU MEAN TO SAY HE IS GOING TO HELL BECAUSE HE WAS BURIED WRONGLY????AYOH!YOH!YOH! DOES IT TAKE YOU TO ENSURE THE BURIAL GURANTEES HIM SYURGA....

YOU ARE MAKING ALLAH A FOOL UMNO!!!!

AND LOOK AT PAK GONCANG LAH...QUIET AS A MOUSE..SCARED LIKE A COWARD TO LOOSE MALAY SUPPORT...AND REFUSE TO STOP HIS VP FROM TALKING COCK YESTERDAY...
SO IT WAS NAJIS behind this too???

I think there are many fair minded Muslims and Malays...but they are not in UMNO
UMNO IS FOR THE MALAYS MUSLIMS WHO ARE ALLOWING THEMSELVES TO BE PULLED LIKE THE KERBAUS HIDONGS.....THEY ARE SCARED TO LOOSE POLITICAL SUPPORT.. but not in the true pracatice of ISLAM meet out justice fairly...

UMNO HAS PROSTITUTED ISLAM....ISLAM IS A PROSTITUTE FOR THEM TO BE USED...AYOYOYO!!!!



satu dunia gelak kita!!!!
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written by Tan Tan, August 10, 2008 00:45:02
Who wanna cabar Islam? How come Malays Muslim in our country still cannot understand that we non Muslim respect your religion but we don't want our life to affect by your religion and visa versa.

So having some discussion on legal issue on conversion can prevent future case of body snatching. Muslim in Malaysian already being label as body snatcher when the act was not properly carry out by some irresposible ppls who call themselves relgious policeman.

We are Malaysia BOLEH not Malaysia BODOH. Please act with heart and do put yourself in our shoes. We RESPECT ISLAM AS OUR COUNTRY OFFICIAL RELIGION but we need your respect as your brothers and sisters that we can practice our religion in ease.

We dun disturb u, u dun disturb us. Isn't tat great. So having legal law to prevent those irresponsible ppls cause chaos among our religion is not undermine any religion but to avoid misunderstanding and hatred.
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written by informalaysia, August 10, 2008 00:58:01
Everyone,

This issue is too complex for all of us to generalize. First of all please don't generalize that all Malay Muslims are suicide bombers. You'd be stupidizing yourself if you ever generalize things like that. I am a Malay Muslim and I still stand firm that Islam is indeed a religion of peace which encourages oppenness, talks, discussions and what not, as long as it is non-provocative.

There's also a possibility that there's some misunderstanding about what's actually going on. When these fellow Muslims are told that the forum is held to bash Muslims, this shows that they've been misinformed. Now, who informed them this? There's also a possibility that even the forum was not planned by UMNO, UMNO media has really took this golden chance to get support from Malays and let the non-Malays stop believing in the opposition (Just look at how many comments already saying that they've lost faith in PAS and PKR). This really disturbs me.

If you're told a forum is held to bash your religion, you'd be glad to stop it also, right? Please just be sensical. As for the molotov cocktail, that's too extreme and I think that's really stupid. And please, again, not all Malay Muslim would act that way. Only one crazy guy in every 10 million.

There's too much misunderstandings in this issue, especially when too few Muslims realize that the body-snatching issue was actually a big one to the non-Muslims while it actually is.

So please. Muslims or non-Muslims. Let's not judge too early. Give some time to think thoroughly about this issue.
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written by Richy, August 10, 2008 01:16:25
A godly religion has been made into a mockery by some un-nurtured Muslims in Malaysia. The whole conversion to Islam is nothing but a plot by these Muslims. What glory and harmony one could get by secretly converting a person to Islam without the knowledge of his family members. Which godly religion allows one to be an accomplice and instigator to someone who has decided to cheat his parents, siblings, wife and children.

No where in the world we have such situation. Instead of spreading the goodness of their faith to make non-Muslims to respect they are doing everything under the sun to dislike and hate Islam. I hold this group solely responsible for non-Muslims’ fear and dislike. I’m also perplexed how easily ordinary Muslims could be exploited by the few people who wear turban and speak a few Arabic versus claiming they are the twin brother of god.

I really sympathize with them!
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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 01:23:58


The day the loudest won... or did they?
http://www.themalaysianinsider...r-did-they

At 9.50am, a handful of protesters, led by Kulim Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin from Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR), muscled their way to the front of the first-floor auditorium at the Bar Council headquarters in Leboh Pasar Besar here amid an ongoing and lively discussion on the 2006 court case of R. Subashini, whose ethnic Indian husband T. Saravanan had embraced Islam and converted their five-year-old son without her knowledge or consent.


PKR MP leading the mob that terrorized a forum discussing Constitutional issues?

**** PKR, **** PAS...you're all a bunch of no good terrorists.

Viva War on Terror, may more Muslims be locked up and waterboarded.
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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 01:48:47
From Malaysiakini. (Emphasis mine)

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/87519

Protesters stop Bar's 'conversion' forum
Andrew Ong | Aug 9, 08 9:41am
About 300 protesters gathered outside the Bar Council headquarters demanding that the lawyers group halt its controversial forum on ‘Conversion to Islam’ this morning.
Protesters disperse by 10.40am
'Babi', 'pengkhianat' and 'balik China'


Waaaahhh....mob being lead by PKR MP Zulkifli Noordin using words like "babi", "pengkhianat", and "balik China"?

I understand that Zulkifli, when addressing the crowd of Muslim rabble, also stated that the next time a forum like this is held the action taken by them will be more severe. Pray tell, Zulkifli, what are you threatening here?

This is why I've always maintained that even without UMNO, Malaysia is destined to descend into an Islamic hellhole of a failed state. The best anyone with brains and assets can do right now is to leave Malaysia and allow the Malays to collapse and buckle under their own stupidity. Why stick around to let a sinking and dying culture pull you down with them?
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written by HARIMAU BIN ABDULLAH, August 10, 2008 01:58:14
The behavior is more like wild animals, no brain at all.
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written by Proarte, August 10, 2008 02:02:38
Anwar is dependent on the people of Sabah and Sarawak to realise his dream of seizing power from BN.

I hope he chatises the scumbag Zulfikli Noordin for his racist and bigoted antics at the bar council where participants were called 'Babi, Cina & India keluar Malaysia etc'.

PKR must realise that non-Muslims have every right to debate and discuss issues pertaining to Islam which affects them as individuals or their community. The idea that Christians, Bhuddists, Hindus, Atheists and Agnostics have to play a 'Dhimmi' role will not be tolerated in the new Malaysia where Anwar promised every individuals fundamental liberties will be regarded as sacrosanct.

Zulkifli Noordin was absolutely pathetic is his cheap publicity seeking antics. He may have scored a few points with the bigots but I feel this is a strategy to undermine PAS and steal the thunder from them, i.e telling Malays that PKR Muslims can be equally Taliban like and even more so when it comes to the defence of Islam.

Here they were defending nothing except bastardising Islam even further giving the clear impression that Islam stands for intolerance, violence, crude language, racial and religious chauvinism.

Anwar take note. If you do not nip this bastardised Islamic cancer in the bud, PKR will unravel and Pakatan Rakyat implode. Make no mistake, this display of thuggery by PKR on the sham pretext of defending Islam will reveberate throughout Malaysia and make the cross over of those MPS from East Malaysia who are not willing to be bribed or to sell out their constituencies increasingly difficult. September 16th is a bridge too far thanks to Zulkifli Noordin and his Muslim PKR gangsters.

Anwar cannot play his tired old game of being 'all things to all men'. Please do not squander all the hard work and sacrifices others have made in wanting a better, kinder , more civilised Malaysia. He has to distance himself from Muslim violence and bigotry. He cannot keep quiet over the outrageous and uncivilised behaviour prominent members of PKR displayed today at the Bar Council.

What better alternative to UMNO is PKR offering Malaysians?
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written by temanmu, August 10, 2008 02:03:12
So is PKR gonna be the "khinzir" party? ... Zulkifli, you better join UMNO cos u sure act like an UMNO man!

The PKR Indians may want to join DAP now!

And the Chinese better think of "balik China!" People migrate to the "advanced" West, but when China becomes developed, more will migrate there too!..

So that's a real possibility! BALIK CHINA !!!
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written by mgeo, August 10, 2008 02:11:51
One of the gorillas who particpated in an UMNO attack on a forum on East Timor 10 years or so ago was on TV this time, pontificating but unwilling for some reason to say right out that the police stopped the forum. In the earlier attack, the police came in after the "youths" and arrested the forum partcipants. Semua Boleh!

"Imagine there's no heaven; above us only sky" - John Lennon
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written by agadam magadam, August 10, 2008 02:12:27
This Zulkifli Nordin pariah dog from PKR should be thrown out..
Dear DSAI, we the non Malays support you.. We are strongly behind you to overthrow that piece of shit who rules the Gomen of today..
But...... you got to do your part.. GET RID OF THIS 2 TIMING SHIT STIRRER - zUL nORDIN FROM Kulim.... If you do not do something about this dog, immediately, Permatang Pauh will only be a dream that didn't come true...
We trust you - and look up to you... Zul Nordin may have been bought over by the BN mothafakkas... Just check it out...
The Forum had nothing to do with the Blessed, Holy, saintly and hypocritical Malays....
It was about our(non Malays) rights...
Malays, Malays, Malays,.... SHIT...SHIT...SHIT..!!! We are just fed up of this whole thing..
Raja Petra, please tell Anwar to get rid of that Dog... Your word is Might...!!

Some Non Malays fart... All the Islamic bodies and pariah dogs will hold demonstrations and protest... That's all they're good for..
Come on la, please grow up and don't be left behind.. This only happens in Malaysia...
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written by fabin, August 10, 2008 02:52:08
In a rare display of solidarity, rival Muslim groups today put aside their political differences and joined forces in protest of a controversial forum on the Federal Constitution.


This was echoed by repeated calls of “rempuh (charge)” by the angry crowd.


Amok is derived from the Malay word mengamuk, meaning "to go mad with rage" (uncontrollable rage). In typical cases of running amok, someone, although having shown no previous sign of anger and/or any inclination to resort to violence, will acquire a weapon and in a sudden frenzy will attempt to kill or seriously injure when provoked.


Captain Cook is reported to have first brought notice of the running amok to the English speaking world. However, earlier European, as opposed to English, accounts that mention amok indicates it to be a commonly employed battle tactic. Tome Pires was amongst the first writing that in the Portuguese conquest of Malacca in 1511, that the young nobles of the court of Malacca including the Sultan's son offered to run amok against the Portuguese. Stamford Raffles, some 300 years later and, far more recently, Schrieke (in 1952) and Reid (in 198smilies/cool.gifalso report amok to be a widespread military strategy employed by the Peninsula Malay, the Javanese and the Balinese, prior to their colonisation. It seems reasonable to compare martial amok with the berserkgang of the Vikings and the Japanese Kamikaze. These highly structured, planned and organised, heavily ritualised longed practiced strategies, are noted by Europeans in the Malay Archipelago.


The dominant feature that distinguishes the amok of the Malay is the individual's agency - amok as solitary rather than collective. Where a Malay run amok as part of a martial contingent participating in a ritualised practice to restore honour, the solitary amok is carried out by an individual as if spontaneously requiring little more than a perceived insult as a provocation for redress. This type of amok is said to be furiously homicidal, all attributes supposedly elemental to the solitary amok of the Malay.
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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 03:46:30
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written by Thinker, August 10, 2008 04:18:39
They should have the right to protest but the forum should have been allowed to continue. The police have just shown us that the mob rules (when the mob is Islamic). No wonder the country is degenerating into chaos; the police WILL NOT even contain a few unruly protesters.
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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 04:44:44
Moments of chaos during forum
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/87539

K Pragalath | Aug 9, 08 6:06pm
All was well during the Bar Council’s forum on religious conversion until a group of protesters entered the venue and disrupted proceedings.MORE

Racial taunts uttered
Two forum sessions held


A group led by PKR and PAS MP's.

Congratulations, you bodoh non-Malays and Malays alike...you have just been conned into voting out corruption and voting in terrorism.

Malaysia is well on the way to becoming a failed state ala Pakistan and Afghanistan. Not even the great Anwar Ibrahim will be able to stop this slide into oblivion.

On Merdeka Day, vote with your feet. Migrate out of the country and take your assets with you. Let the country collapse under the weight of its own stupidity and religious bigotry.
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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 05:24:42
A glimpse of the future under the rule of Pakatan Rakyat if it doesn't get rid of PAS and sleeper-cell crazy Islamists from within its own ranks.


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written by mikewang, August 10, 2008 07:26:31
Let's pray for divine intervention that the MP for Kulim Bandar Baru will lose his case in court and his election be void.

Let the people of Kulim choose another MP.
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written by Stupid me, August 10, 2008 07:41:42
The Bar Council president should consider lodging complaints with its own Disciplinary Body against any Advocate & Solicitor who was with the protesters, including Zulkifli Nordin, for disrupting the forum which was organised by the Bar Council. This, with due respect, is conduct unbecoiming of an Advoacte & Solicitor. Worse than what was done by another who obtained a court order to prevent the Bar Council from convening an EGM someime ago.
If nothing is done about this matter now then there will come a day when these same people would protest outside a court hearing s case involving similar matters to the extent of asking the judge to stop hearing the case immediately and under the very eyes of the Polis.
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written by InEffective, August 10, 2008 08:31:35

Its always good for Malaysians to get an upfront and close-up look at the 'undeveloped mind'.

Here it is - our very own MP - in all its visual detail (displayed above).

Its important for malaysians to recognize the neanderthal intellect - its truly an amazing species.

The Malaysian MP - a lazy racist bigoted religion-defiling filth-minded coward - malaysia's very own - an exhibition that should be paraded for the world to see )

Do we have more ?

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written by FFT, August 10, 2008 08:48:13
This is the true spirit of PAS and certain PKR members for you, not very different from UMNO:

‘Babi! Balik China!’
http://imagineequality.*******...china.html

‘Shouts of “babi”, “pengkhianat” and “balik China” were heard as forum participants trickled out of the venue’ (Malaysiakini )

Reporting on the recent abruptly aborted Bar Council’s forum on ‘Conversion to Islam,’ the Malaysiakini report quoted above noted that approximately 300 protesters had gathered outside the Bar Council’s headquarters where shouts of ‘batal forum’ (cancel the forum) and ‘hancur Bar Council’ (crush the Bar Council) were also heard. So on the advice of the police, the Bar Council called-off the forum.

Score ‘1’ for ‘mob terror’ and ‘0’ for democracy.


You camel-shagging terrorist sandmonkeys should "berhijrah ke Saudi" and settle down with a harem of goats.

But as with all things Muslim, the irony stands out. Do note these are the same bunch of pondscum who talk far and wide about turning the Constitution into an Islamic State, demanding that it is their democratic right to do so. Yet, at the same time, they form mobs and storm buildings to prevent others from discussing the very same Constitution and current issues related to its implementation in letter and spirit.

Terrorist scum. You should all be detained under the ISA.

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written by Msian 2, August 10, 2008 08:51:27
This MP cannot differiate & totally lack depth. He thinks his actions rocks and owns the bloody country. It is this kind of mind set that is setting the country back. Just a forum on conversion & whats so big deal about it that it can't be held. Its not even an insult on islam and I am sure glad we have exposed this bigoted MP. Is this going to be the standard cockyness on what MP's can do?? when there are more serious matters in the country to attend.
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written by kurangfaham, August 10, 2008 08:58:13
Atlast Anwar is going to lose and The Monkey MP from KBB is also going to lose his case. finally BN or UMNO is to add two more seats in parliment. Think before you leap Zulkifly Nordin, don't ever try to be a hero, you don't have the look. You stupid face shows you are bloody coward. You can only act like a hero but individualy you are pondan ops, sorry worst then a pondan. I don't know how come the people from KBB elect you as their rep.to the parliment.
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written by binarytan, August 10, 2008 09:02:35
After reading so many articles above, I believe we are still emphasizing "Ketuanan Melayu" or "Ketuanan Islam" in our country.

What our fear on PAS is coming true should they turn our country into Islamic State.

I think better for us to pack and leave this country, as there is no hope for Malaysia.

After 50 years of independence, we are going back to rock world with all the small minded thinking.

Is that Islam of Modern world? It is better to convert all non Muslim in our country to Muslim bloody idiot guys. Zul also the stupid idiot head, better for you to join either PAS or UMNO and leave PKR.

Dr. Tan, may be you jumped the wrong ship.

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written by Food Thought, August 10, 2008 09:37:06
We just have to accept the fact that Malaysia is not ready yet for such 'open talk discussion' where issues concerning Islam are at the heart of the discussion. The existence of Syariah Law and Secular Law show the complexity of our systems. The existence of UMNO-PUTRA that uses race/religion issues till now to advance and maintain their power add in to these complexities. Yet, we have embraced and live in this complex world for more than 50 years.

As for those lawyers and the people that were against the forum, similar like those who support the forum, their beliefs, sentiments and values are the product of these complex institutions/systems. Is it right to challenge the belief of other religion on the basis of addressing some needs of the secular law? Is it right to call other races 'balik china' and hurt their feelings just because they are non-Malays?

We cannot change the institutions overnight without restoring true democracy first and instill tolerance and respect to others through good education. Let just keep the issue in mind, a forward agenda that some years from today, we will engage openly these same issues with more tolerance and understanding towards others' religious beliefs and practices. Let us work together to restore true democracy first by changing these UMNO/BN government!
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written by Check, August 10, 2008 09:37:20
So much so for going forward while engaging in reverse gear. How can we ever solve problems while crushing alternative views and opinions even without hearing them out? This is the festering problem.
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written by Food Thought, August 10, 2008 09:47:38
Sometimes, the reverse gear is temporarily a better option when one lives in a world that is full of uncertainty. Many politicians/professionals/group of people try to push forward their agenda to take advantage of this uncertainty. Much to learn of what happen today in order to influence the outcome in the future when such event takes place again!
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written by Stupid me, August 10, 2008 09:51:18
Why did the protesters led by the MP Zul in the first instance not go to the Court to obtain an injunction to stop the forum which was organised many moons ago. That would be a much more civilised way of doing things. Any hope that he (Zul)loses the Election Petition against him. Never mind if the seat goes to somebody else and even if not to PR and even if UMNO.
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written by Kampong, August 10, 2008 10:49:22
Had all the Malaysian non-Muslims converted to Muslims, there would still be one-ketuanan group and the pendatang group. Witness how the Sunnis and Shiites going at each other for hundreds of years would tell you what a farce this is.

But again, religion has to defy logic and realities.
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written by bumiputeri, August 10, 2008 12:56:27
Dear sphere2stick,

Haaahh....haaah....haaaa...what?????

It is actually...haaah...haaa....haaaa.... there goes another display of blind Islam extremism ....in the eyes of the world.

You have actually degraded Malaysia in the eyes of the world.....haaa...haaa...haaa....meludah ke langit kena muka sendiri....haah..haaa...haaa!!!!
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written by Malaysiaputra, August 10, 2008 21:56:06
written by sphere2stick, August 10, 2008 | 08:49:43
All Buddhists, Hindus, Christians are pigs that talk shit

unquote.

===

Don't you know that when you point your index finger at others three other fingers are pointing back at yourself ?.

This means you are three times worse than what you say to others !
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