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The Melayu and Michael Chick's flawed judgement of them PDF Print
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Monday, 04 August 2008 08:52

By Melayu-lah


I wish to comment on Michael Chick’s latest diatribe concerning who the Malays are.

Of course, the Malay race is not mentioned in the Holy Koran or the other holy books. They are only found in the books written by the anthropologists and historians and now used by politicians.

 

In fact, there is also no such a thing called MALAY. There are only MELAYU. And there is no Malay Language, but Bahasa Melayu.

 

And it doesn’t matter where this word came from – a village in Riau, Sumatera called Kampung Melayu, as what he had asserted.


Did he conduct any research to find if the Kampung Melayu in Riau preceded the description of the Malay race, or vice-versa?

There are many other Kampung Melayu throughout the Malay Peninsula or Semenanjung Tanah Melayu.

 

After all the Chinese and Indian races are from the words, ‘Chin Dynasty’ and ‘Indus Valley’ in India.

 

By right the Chinese and Indians must be described as a race according to the language or dialect they speak in such as Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien and Tamil, Hindustan, Telugu, Malayam, Punjabi and so on.

 

But with the independence of these two countries, the peoples of different ethnicities were conveniently grouped together.

 

This is now happening in Europe with the establishment of the European Union, so the people who are in this continent can also be described as Europeans although they may be Spanish, Dutch, German and so on.

 

Therefore, the Malays like the other races, evolve over time and they were influenced by where they are and how they go about doing their daily activities, all of which are now being influenced by the countries they reside in, language they speak and religion the observe, etc.

 

They are not bound by the dictates of the anthropologists and historians who like to use them merely for their entertainment.

 

We have to be realistic, and this is my advise to Michael, so that he is not confused by the demands of anthropology and history, and fail to take into accounts the many interesting and influential factors that help to shape any particular race.

 

He might as well go further back in time and just admit that all human beings are descendants of apes, as what Charles Darwin had tried to convince everybody.

 

Michael doesn’t seem to care about the feelings of a proud people, a race in the new concept and rush his way to try and use facts which can be challenged in such haste that it often leaves us wondering what the fuss is he trying to make.

 

He talks as though ‘anthropology’ is a sacred study. It is nothing but a western invention that they had used to study humankind, i.e. from their own perspective.

 

Michael has made some glaring facts that leave me wondering if he and those who had conducted studies on how and especially when the Javanese converted to Islam.

 

It is definitely not from 1947 as they claimed, but much earlier and it was not because of Karakatoa but because they were disheartened by the religions of their ancestors and themselves.

 

Obviously Michael and the other western researchers had failed to look at ‘Sejarah Melayu’ and the ancient manuscripts which described how the whole of Java Island had embraced Islam during the time of the Majapahit rulers in the Fourteenth Century.

 

This was also the effort to propagate the religion by the ‘Wali Songgo’ or the ‘Nine Saints of Java’.

 

As for those in Bali who still remain Hindu, the reason was because the Javanese who refused to convert fled from Java to go to the island which was at that time inhabited, where a small group of animists were living and there they could live their lives again.

 

And because of that, they also reshaped Hinduism into their own brand of Hindu-Bali which is almost nothing compared to the Hinduism many Indians know of. Hindu-Bali has elements from animism, Islam as well as Chinese cultural practices.

 

Go to the city in the north of Bali Island and there is a small group of Balinese who are Muslims as well as another group of Balinese Hindus who do not consume port. They are called by the Balinese as ‘Islam-Kafir’, meaning they practice Hinduism but do not consume pork like the Balinese Hindus do.

 

I do not think Michael has got what it takes to undertake such a strenuous study on who and what are the Malays.

 

He has failed to talk about the Filipinos, who used to proudly call themselves Malays, and the Republic of the Philippines as the First Malay Republic and their national hero Jose Rizal as a Malay leader.

 

Unfortunately, even the Filipinos are not making it a big deal anymore because they know that to be described as Malay these days one also has to be Muslim like all the Malays in Malaysia are.


So they just describe themselves as Filipinos like it is a new race, which it can be since they are large in numbers and are totally different than the other races around them. 

 

But because the Philippines were dominated and controlled by the Spanish for so long, the whole of the country became a Catholic one, with most of the people having converted to this religion leaving the islands in the south which are still dominated by the Malays who are Muslims.

 

And the Catholic as well as the Christian conquerors of the countries in this region with the aid of their priests, had forced many locals to convert to their religion. They went to the interiors because they faced hindrances with their conversion efforts in the cities.

 

Therefore, those who claim that Muslim groups in Malaysia are forcing anyone to convert to Islam, to please study at how their ancestors had converted to Catholicism and Christianity, if they were not forced to do it.


And as late as the Nineteenth Century, even some Chinese who had converted to Christianity were killed by other Chinese who did not like what they had done. And it happened in Singapore. But this episode is never discussed by any researcher or historian in Singapore, as being the first religious strife to have happened in the country.

 

Everybody liked to talk about the Natra Riots of the 1960s because it was between the Muslims and Catholics.

 

Michael ought to realize that his study on the history or origin of the Malays has its flaws. He is too dependent on what the western anthropologists have said or written and exerted.


Please bear in mind that the study of anthropology is inherently biased. It does not take into account what is written in the Holy Koran which does not subscribe to the way the anthropologists describe the different peoples of the world.


The Koran describes the Arabs and Jews and other races which are now conveniently lumped into the Caucasoid.

 

He then goes on to say that according to anthropology there are only five distinct people in the whole world. They are the Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, The Dravidic, and the Austronesian. 

 

(Michael say the Caucasoids, Negroids, Mongoloids, The Dravidics and the Austronesians, when they are just Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, The Dravidic and Austronesian. There is a difference between the two types of descriptions, which is that they are not of the races but groups such as the Caucasoid group and its members are not Caucasoids, etc.)

 

For heaven’s sake, who and what and who are they? Are they described in the Koran? Or the Bible and other holy books?

 

No, they are not. They are only descriptions made by the anthropologists who use their own methodologies to come up with their outrageous pronouncements which they can to consider to be sacred and are facts.

 

They know better than anyone else. They reject what the Holy Koran and the other holy books say on the same matter.

 

What I find most outrageous is when Michael keeps on harping on his research methods and where he says he got his facts from.

 

Yes, he can quote all those people and the smart anthropologists, but bear in mind also, that there had already been books written about the human race in the Koran and the other holy books and he cannot exclude that from coming up with his findings.

 

The descriptions of the five races in the world are made by the anthropologists. It is for their own convenience.


And this is just for academic purposes.

 

As for the Malays, we have the right to call whoever we like, just as the Indians and Chinese, too, have the right to call themselves by this description as their races, although these words were not found in the ancient texts, but were also given by western anthropologists and historians who like to play god.

 

The word ‘Chinese’ comes from the words ‘Chin Dynasty’, while ‘Indian’ comes from the Indus Valley in India.

 

Over time, they had generally accepted these descriptions. But these descriptions, as well as the Malays, have added significance and meanings. And the demarcation of the areas into independent states has caused large groups of people to call themselves a different race than the others.

 

If Singapore is large enough, sooner or later, they can also become a race, like the American race, which started as a nationality.

 

The Siamese are now conveniently called Thais. And it is their race.

 

Therefore, I hope Michael will practice a bit of tact when dealing with matters, especially if he wants to use western anthropological and historical findings to come to his weird conclusion by excluding the Malays as being a distinct race.

 

The errors that he had made in his essay are too glaring for anyone not to take notice of how good his essay is.

 

There are many Malays who have other ancestries, but that doesn’t mean that we cannot be Malays who have such ancestries?

 

There is no sub-race of Sino-Malay or Malay-Chinese or Malay-Indians or Malay-English or Anglo-Malay.

 

One considers oneself to be of a certain race based on one’s personal preference and acceptance and not by the demands of the western anthropologists and historians or politicians.

 

In the end, the study on the history and origin or the Melayu or Malay can be as exquisite as the study of the history and origin or the English or any other, who had also taken into their culture and life influences from other races around them.

 

So what the Malays had done is nothing unusual.

 

The English language like Bahasa Melayu also evolved over time.

 

Singapore Minister Mentor, Lee Kuan Yew describes those who are in China as THE CHINESE like he is also not Chinese.

 

His ancestors used to be Chinese, but after they left China to live in Malay and then, Singapore, they ceased to be Chinese but Singaporeans.

 

Even those in Hong Kong and Taiwan do not call themselves Chinese, but Hong Kongers and Taiwanese.

 

Chinese has become a national description of a people as opposed to a race.

 

This results in the ‘Chinese’ and ‘Indians’ in Malaysia to be ‘displaced’ for they cannot call themselves by these two descriptions anymore since they are not citizens of these two countries.

 

Legally, the ‘Chinese’ and ‘Indians’ in Malaysia are often referred by the international community as Malaysians with Chinese or Indian ethnicity.

 

So if there are Chinese and Indians in Malaysia, they are the tourists, expatriates and other workers.

 

But as for the Malays, the race is still dominant even if they are Malaysians or Indonesians.

 

There is a trend now to downgrade the close rapport between the Malays in Malaysia and Indonesia by forcing them to think that they are not of the same race.

 

The orientalists and Zionists had succeeded in disuniting the Arabs by calling them names, which forced them to fight with each other.

 

Is this what people like Michael are trying to do with the Melayu race so they are seen to be smaller, meeker and not of the same race?

Comments (46)Add Comment
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written by oknyua, August 04, 2008 09:07:01
You aguement makes sense sir. But you have to excuse most Malaysian, including me. We do not accept the definition that he/she must be a Muslim to be a Malay. Which comes first, the Malay or the Muslim.

I am a proud stock of the Malay Race, but I am not a Muslim and because of that I am not, by definition of politics, not a Malay. That is in confrontation with today's definition, but why should I care. And you, Melayu-lah, would you dare to call yourself a Malay had you not been a Muslim? I think this is something to think about.

I am not anti-rerligion etc, but let a Malay be a Malay, regardless of religion; won't that make you very very proud?
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written by binarytan, August 04, 2008 09:09:12
In fact we should not talk too much on race and religion, we are all the same Malaysian.

Malaysia is a lovely country, except the politician are most detested particularly UMNO and the gang.

I have been staying in Kampong many years before moving to town, where I have enjoyed every moment to live together with Malay & Indian society. I will tell you there is no problem with that and we do not even feel racial tension.

UMNO is as usual playing race card all the while, particularly after PRU12 and creating the tension among the race, beating citizens in BMC, where I have seen enough throughout these few years.

How about our education system which is political influenced?

Malaysia will definitely fall behind if the current gomen still incharge, this is without any doubt.

Are we not able to accept the new Malaysia where PR is emphasizing on?

Definitely we are wishing and hoping for a better tomorrow only problem is whether this UMNO is able to accept.

Or we just go throught a tough period by removing them from politics may be with some sacrifice? Perhaps this will bring us a better and brighter Malaysia and also bring the good to next generation.

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written by Jun Jan, August 04, 2008 09:20:17
Dear MElayu-Lah, pls explain why there is a need to define Melayu in the Constitution? just like what oknyua wrote, why is there a need to affix your religion as a prerequisite to be a Melayu? Why can an Indian decendent, changing his name, profess to Islam and adopt Melayu culture be defined as a Melayu? Why then should this 'convert' melayu enjoys the special rights as a bumiputra? Why is a rich Melayu entitled to purchase home at a discount rate when middle income people like me need to work my ass off to pay the extra 10%?If a Melayu does not profess to Islam anymore and does not follow the adat orang Melayu, what is he/she then, as defined in the constitution? a chinese? indian? bugger? smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif
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written by shan, August 04, 2008 09:26:05
I think what Michael is trying to illustrate is not to
"..do with the Melayu race so they are seen to be smaller, meeker and not of the same race?" as you claim.
But to show that the Austronesians live from Sumatra to Tahitti.
The Melayu's on the other hand are only a tribe who live in the Riau Islands and Brunei.
The rightful name is Austronesians and not Melayu or even Malay.






then you can mouth-off your own comments after that. Thanx




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written by vanahom, August 04, 2008 09:32:09
Melayu-lah,

Nice articel but you seem to be not getting the message that Michel is trying convey. It's not an argument about race its about the unity that counts. I agree malays are pioneers in Malaysia but why is the massive number of people still living in ignorance. Why is the sudden Arabisation of our own Malay race by ignoring the roots? Religion is one thing and culture is another thing. Whatever being potrayed in TVs and medias is not Malay culture at all. Michels article is about finding the root of Malays. Malays also have evolved and corssbred with Chinese and Indians and in a sudden Malays are arguing the existence of these two races in Malaysia and still addressing them as migrants. What Michel saying is, Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadazans, etc need the same equal attention not for only one race. Hope you get it because you seems to be from a high literated society. You will understand the plight of Chinese and Indians if you live like one in the country where you are born as a Citizen yet being treated worse than a migrant worker. Racism is everywhere and in every nooks and corners in the world. People in Malaysia even malays never practiced racism but the Government does. Who are these government people, they are not from the supreme Malay race but something crossbred of races that is ruling the Supreme Malay race and dividing them into rich and poor. As long as there are poor Malays in Malaysia, the UMNOs can rule the country for another 1000 years and the poor will still remain poor and live in the kampungs waiting to receive some money and food every 5 years once. If the UMNOs think of making the Malays rich and to have a good life, there wouldn't be any poor Malays 20 years ago. We might be seeing another Japan or South Korea. Why we are still struggling. Its because of the divide and rule policy just like how the British did in India. Its another colonisations after British. UMNOs Malay speaking British rulers. Open your heart and mind for a minute to sit down and think. Keep it up.
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written by rockli, August 04, 2008 09:33:56
What is this writer Melayu-lah harping on???
There is no need to justify your race supremacy or importance.
Michael is maybe correct as the RACE starts from NOAH's 3 sons - Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
From them, they populated the whole world esp. after the failed Tower of Babel project in which their singular language turned multi-lingual.
In the process of time and due to geographical locations and climate and weather their skin tone changed.
So what so important about your race or mine.
Of course if you are from Shem or Japheth lineage these two lineages are considered blessed as Noah blessed them, (God honours godly man like Noah) unlike Ham lineage.
WE ALL COME FROM THE 3 FAMILIES.
For Malaysia to succeed as a developed nation status - there must be no one supreme race over others.
Also there is no need to bring religious books into the picture.
The Bible do not put emphasis on race because we are all equal in God's eyes.
And we expire quickly = 80 years or so - why be so obsessed about which race as we have no choice as to which race to be born into.


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written by shan, August 04, 2008 09:36:56
Can Melayu-lah please explain then, why, when Corazon Aquino announced that she was "Malay" on National TV that the Malaysian Government told her to shut up, simply coz she is Catholic? That is not a race definition, by any standards. It is simply a newly conjured "pseudo-religio" club membership. You should be ashamed of yourself for even submitting this letter. It goes to show how narow minded your brain is from the incessant false information UMNO has fed you over the years.


Or are you actually part of that engine I wonder....
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written by kennyeu, August 04, 2008 09:49:04
I didn't get anything out of this article. To me it was a random collection of stories which don't come together to make a point. You criticize Michael for his shallow definition of what the Malay race is when you didn't even attempt to deliver a definition of what the Malay race is. More than this, there are a lot of little statements made which I feel were inaccurate like:

...the American race, which started as a nationality


There is no American race. If you had to fill up a form in America and you wrote "American" in the section under race, do you not think the guy behind the counter would laugh at you for being an idiot? As I said, it was a random collection of stories that brings the reader nowhere.
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written by temenggong, August 04, 2008 09:49:31
The writer confuses racial identity with language identity, and in both cases the writer is ill informed. There is no malay race. It should be properly called 'austronesian'. That would be technically correct.

What is ridiculous is to rely on the koran or religious books as authorities on anthropology. Today we have irrefutable DNA studies that establishes anthropology, and trashes all previous theories. There is only one race, and all came out of Africa. All share a same mother 140,000 years ago, and all living today share a same father too tracing back to about 55,000 years ago! Everyone of us living today share the same genes as this ancient woman and man. The first homo sapien goes back to 2.2 million years ago! But all this is prehistory.

We are now concerned now with post pleistocene history - from 5,000 years ago and human's recent migrations. Here the indications are Yunnanese migrated to south east asia and intermarried with our local aborigines (austronesians)* giving rise to what was previously called proto-malays, but more technically called austronesians. What's the problem with that?

*austronesians in the malay peninsula means the semang, jakun, temiang, senoi and negritos.

Now if one is talking of language identity, check this out first.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/44563/Austronesian-languages

This establishes that the malay language is part of the larger austronesian language group.

The writer should not write on scientific issues from a loaded political angle.
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written by vanahom, August 04, 2008 09:50:01
I'm still wondering if there's any Malay-Hindus,Malay-Buddhists and Malay-Christians still exist in Malaysia or they have been pushed into corners and converted to Islam very very long time ago before the existence of Medias like Malaysia-today and Malaysikini. Why cant be Malays to be in another religion what is the egoism all about? Throw aside your religious fanaticism and be your ownself. Ooopss...if fanaticism and racism is your ownself, sorry cant help it. May god bless you......
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written by shan, August 04, 2008 09:56:31
Melayu-lah get your facts right before shooting your mouth as people will laugh at us for condoning your rubbish
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written by joeawk, August 04, 2008 11:03:50
It is all cock talking attempting to define race. Singapopreans are chinese, malays, indians and others and singaporean cannot be a race, not yet at least because they can still be easily defines as chinese, malays and indians among others in the cultures. the way they talk, their cuisines, the customs, etc, etc.

The Japanese may have their different origin but we can agree with the Japanese as a race because they generally practice the same culture even though they may have different spiritual faith.

But don't ever gel race and religion or faith together because that would be talking big cock.

Just don't suka define a race.
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written by vanahom, August 04, 2008 11:06:09
In time to come you will see the new Malays going to rule the country. They are the Arabs who is migrating and buying property and living in Malaysia. They will be granted citizenship and will be sitting in the cabinets and talking about malay supremacy and goes vacation to Arab. You and your kids Mr. Melayu-lah will be talking Malay supremacy in kampungs and will be begging from these new clans to approve your scholarships, lands and etc. Remember one thing whatever goes around comes around. We Malaysians comprised of Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadazans, etc. We wouldn’t get to see the Malaysia which is today if you don’t have these races who have worked and built the nation with their own sweats, not the cronies of UMNOs who their sons and daughters enjoying their life in overseas and abroad, come back and rule the country with their filthy alcoholism and partying attitudes. This is what you get, the Malaysia-today which has been doomed.
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written by DezMalaysia, August 04, 2008 11:16:50
Melayu-lah, how do you describe Baba-Nyonya ? Chinese marry Malays and who are not converted to Islam ? Mind to tell us ?
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written by teo siew chin, August 04, 2008 11:32:14
heh man, i dont care to declare a race or a religion as long as i am a good decent human being who causes no harm or hurt and who try to be the best in what i do without reliance or dependence on another and having done that, don't lord over another!
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written by Debbie, August 04, 2008 11:35:24
Melayu lah , melayulah....says it all...racists moron of the highest degree.
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written by Agahdemo, August 04, 2008 12:00:35
In Indonesia, you are malay regardless of your religion. In Malaysia, to qualify you as a "malay", you must first be a "muslim". So you have those from Arab, Pakistan and so forth coming to Malaysia, as long as they are muslim, soon they will be malay and hence bumiputera.

Are you "Malay" first or "muslim" first???? smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif smilies/cry.gif
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written by cwy, August 04, 2008 12:06:56
Adam is tall and handsome, but the modern men are small and ugly!
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written by bumiputeri, August 04, 2008 12:50:23
Race is race, regardless of religion.

Look at the Indians for a good example, Indian Hindus, Indian Muslims, Indian Christians and Indian Buddhists!!!! They are still Indians, regardless of their religion (but of course the Indian Muslims seem to have a little bit of a problem indentifying themselves as Indians as they get better privileges as "MALAYS" AND ISNT THAT WHY KIMMA IS FIGHTING SO HARD TO GEY MALAY-SHIP????).

Malays are so obsessed with Islam that they were so blinded to give citizenship to Indonesians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and Plilipinos just because they are Muslims!!!!

Vanaham above is right, that the Malays are so blinded and obsessed by their religion, one day, one final day, these ARABS, INDONESIANS, BANGLAS, PAKISTANIS, AND PHILIPINOS WHO ARE ALL GIVEN THE BUMIPUTERA STATUS ARE GOING TO TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY AND RULE THEM AND MALAYS ARE GOING TO BE BEGGERS IN THEIR OWN LAND!!!!!

WE WILL SEE THEN HOW PROUD ARE THE MALAYS ABOUT THIER BLOODY BRAINS!!!!
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written by bumiputeri, August 04, 2008 12:59:35
Malays are so obsessed and blinded by thier religion that they prostituted the laws of the country and gave citizenship to the Indonesians, Banglas, Pakistanis, Philipinos and now the country is being flooded by African Muslims, OMG, OMG, OMG!

One day, one final day, the Malays in this land are going to be beggers in their own land becase the much smarter Arabs, Indonesians, Banglas, Philipinos and Africans are going to take over the country and make Malays of Malaysia their slaves.....only because they were so blinded and extremists of ISLAM!!!!
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written by truthbespoken, August 04, 2008 13:24:14
Melayu-lah, Melayu-lah... Pl come out of your shallow shell-thinking!

Try to be a progressive-thinking Malaysian. Then only you shall be a progressive-thinking Malay. Otherwise many more will sympathise with the way you continue to explain yourself through the racist's mind of yours.

Pl, quickly do yourself a Favour-lah!

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written by 98PercentPrimate, August 04, 2008 13:40:46
In fact, there is also no such a thing called MALAY. There are only MELAYU. And there is no Malay Language, but Bahasa Melayu.

That is dumb.

Note your logic,
In fact, there is also no such a thing called BALL. There are only BOLA. And there is no FOOTBALL, but BOLA-SEPAK.
'Malay' is used in the English Language and 'Melayu' in BM and Bahasa Indonesia.

You seem incapable of differentiating between language (lingual), race (genetics) and nationality (land & borders).

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written by vanahom, August 04, 2008 15:00:08
bumiputri

That was my point all about. I am a non-malay and has been observing our country for a very long time. I pity the real malay who is infact suffering but the recent Malay converts are enjoying the country's wealth instead. Do you know along time ago when there was a civil war in Bosnia, Mahathir gave citizenship to these refugees. at the same time thr was a civil war in somalia mogadishu malaysia sent our peacekeeping force but no somalians were taken as a refugee. The irony is both are Islam country. Why is the double standard. Do you get my point. Its the colour tht counts. Mahathir himself is half Indian. He wants this malaysia to be ruled by Islam people but not to be ruled by Malays. Count who are the real malays in UMNO. The real malays are the ordinary party members. Think about it my Malay friend. Wake up rise for your own right.
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written by TWOG, August 04, 2008 15:40:42
Melayu-lah, you really lost the plot. Your rumbling drivels are based on nothing but your own assertions. At least Michael did some research.

He has failed to talk about the Filipinos, who used to proudly call themselves Malays, and the Republic of the Philippines as the First Malay Republic and their national hero Jose Rizal as a Malay leader.


The above is a fine example of your utter rubbish. Jose Rizal was a Chinese. Why the hell did get the idea that he was a Malay??? His surname was Ke, or in the local context, variously spelt as Kua, Quah, Kwa or Kuah, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Rizal

(Michael say the Caucasoids, Negroids, Mongoloids, The Dravidics and the Austronesians, when they are just Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, The Dravidic and Austronesian. There is a difference between the two types of descriptions, which is that they are not of the races but groups such as the Caucasoid group and its members are not Caucasoids, etc.)

For heaven’s sake, who and what and who are they? Are they described in the Koran? Or the Bible and other holy books?


For crying out loud, you based your "science" on those fairy-tale books? Since when has the Koran, Bible, Torah, or other holy books been the authority on science? Is the computer you are typing on described in the Koran? No. Therefore there is no such thing as computers. Was your handphone described in the Bible? No.

Melayu-lah, the more you write, the more malu you will be...

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written by tcng, August 04, 2008 16:27:38
Dear Melayu-lah,
While I agree that this Michael Chick's point is flaw, I have a question and also hilite a point where you are wrong :-

1) Question

If a Orang Melayu decide to denounce Islam and embrace Christianity, Buddhism, or Agnostic or Free-thinker, is he/she still a Orang Melayu?

2)
is WRONG



Anyway, race has nothing to do with 'Citizenship' or Religion.

For example, A Korean would still be Korean , whether he is Catholic, Buddhist or Free-Thinker. If he is American Citizen, he is 'Korean-American'.
This Korean will never become a 'Anglo-Saxon' or Mat Salleh !

If a orang Melayu become USA Citizen and no longer profess Islam, what would he be?

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written by tcng, August 04, 2008 16:33:29
2)
is WRONG
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written by tcng, August 04, 2008 16:35:22
2)You wrote :- "By right the Chinese and Indians must be described as a race according to the language or dialect they speak in such as Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien and Tamil, Hindustan, Telugu, Malayam, Punjabi and so on.

But with the independence of these two countries (China and India), the peoples of different ethnicities were conveniently grouped together."
I do not want to comment on India as I do not know very much about Indian history.

But your point on Chinese is DEFINITELY WRONG.

I am ethnic Chinese, understand Chinese language and have pretty good knowledge on China History.

More than 2000 years ago when the Great Wall was built, China already has a common written language that still exist today (though evolved over the long period of times). Though Mandarin, Cantonese , Hokkien and many other Chinese dialect may pronounce differently, the 'Chinese Characters' used are the same and the meanings are also the same. The so-called 'Han Chinese' consider themselves 'Chinese Race'. The Cantonese-speaking HongKongers too.

Your statement : " But with the independence of these two countries (China and India), the peoples of different ethnicities were conveniently grouped together."
is WRONG



Anyway, race has nothing to do with 'Citizenship' or Religion.

For example, A Korean would still be Korean , whether he is Catholic, Buddhist or Free-Thinker. If he is American Citizen, he is 'Korean-American'.
This Korean will never become a 'Anglo-Saxon' or Mat Salleh !

If a orang Melayu become USA Citizen and no longer profess Islam, what would he be?

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 04, 2008 16:48:28
Melayu-lah,
MALU lah. Nak tulis pun tak pandai. Thank God that I am an Austriopolynesian, otherwise they might hassle me when they see me drink beer, these Arab wannabe Melayus.

Salaam
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written by DezMalaysia, August 04, 2008 17:58:43
Melayu-lah, I wanna add what Mr.Tong just said;
More than 2000 years ago when the Great Wall was built, China already has a common written language that still exist today (though evolved over the long period of times). Though Mandarin, Cantonese , Hokkien and many other Chinese dialect may pronounce differently, the 'Chinese Characters' used are the same and the meanings are also the same. The so-called 'Han Chinese' consider themselves 'Chinese Race'. The Cantonese-speaking HongKongers too.


Actually CHINA comprise of many ethnicity much more complex than Malaysia and they are Han Chinese (Origin of Central Plains), Miao Minority (South Eastern), Hui Minority (South-Western & West), Manchus (North), Hainanese (East - Island), Chinsese Christians, Korean Chinese, etc etc... you name it ! Even their minority numbers can outnumbered Indonesia's population ! The Chinese Government had succeeded to unite the whole China's population into only recognized race through their Communist-Nationalist propaganda, that is CHINESE (ZHONG GUO REN). Except for Rebellious Tibet, they are not Chinese after all and you can see they resemble more like Indians. No country can progress so rapidly in just a short 10years of time without people's unity. Malaysia always dream of being one of the Modern & develope nation. The only weird issue happens in Malaysia is that UMNO Ultra Nationalisms stroke racial tensions & propagate Malay Unity rather than Malaysian Unity. By encouraging more racial tensions among Malaysians, can you expect our nation to progress towards Vision 2020 smoothly ? This Article or any article touching RACIAL issues should be put to an END rather than fighting to be known as the best race among others ! What for ? So you can feel proud and stay ignorant ?

Malaysians should hold on & help to each other in order to climb up to the top together ! With Indian, Malay, Chinese, Iban, Kadazan, Asli, etc. all kicking each other to fall back and the back pull the first & second runner back, when can anyone of us reach to the peak in a short time ? When can we all end this stupidity of 'Malay Supremacy' ?

Come one ! Work as one ! Malaysia for Malaysian !
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written by panca, August 04, 2008 18:51:09
It is almost impossible not to be a Malay if you are born a malay. Born a Malay means you are born a muslim(or get ready to be disowned or scorn at) and like it or not, it is set by umno, umno dictates what you should be and for that matter you are therefore only know as melayu (use the word melayu if you do not like to use the word malay, having problem with MC). This is the true fact and as what had been said by oknyua.

The chinese can be muslim, christian, hindu or buddhist or atheist, he is still chinese and unlike mamak, arab, pakistan or any muslim here, all comes under malay.

The cantonese, hakka, teochew and hokkien and all sub-dialect are all chinese, they all have same surnames Tans, Hong, Chua and they are all chinese but here the chinese in Malaysia as with the Malay and Indian origin, Malaysians. If you want to say Chinese is a nationality, yes the chinese in China is Chinese, together with the other 55 minorities. The melayu from indonesia, the chinese from china, the indian from india, etc.

Please do not use religion to determine race, be more intelligent in your discourse. Respect religion for spiritual purpose.

So is Mahathir a malay or melayu or mamak?
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written by vanahom, August 04, 2008 18:52:02
i just would like to add up on what Dezmalaysia has just said. i am writing this from China itself and i know what it is like. The first thing that the communist party got rid off is the religion. You ask any younger generation of chinese, they will tell that they dont believe in religion and also there is no ethnic clashes and race among the races. China is progressing well and I would say that nothing can stop them. Now you know what is stopping from Malaysia to grow even bigger.
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written by DagoRed94, August 04, 2008 18:55:10
Hello Melayu-lah,
I probably have more Malay DNA than you and can trace my ancestors back to the 16th century.
Can you say the same? Yet, I'm classified as DLL (Others) by this stupid UMNO government and am proud of it!

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written by observer2, August 04, 2008 19:26:25
Aiyo Melayu-lah,

Why wanna argue abt Malay or Muslim la???? What century is this? We only care and concern about our nation, economy and every1 can have a decent living...why alwiz bring out race issue?????? We all very tired & fed up. WE ARE ALL MALAYSIANS AND SHOULD BE TREATED FAIRLY... only the stupid UMNOism created the racism with aplenty of racist around this nation and also put under the constituency...

Apalah ni.....
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written by fireduck, August 04, 2008 23:04:53
As I see it:

There are three distinct components here - race, religion and nationality.

Race - I was borned into it. Not much I can do about that. Just like Michael Jackson turning himself white does not make him a Caucasian. I go get myself sunburned or smoked in the kiln, won't make me any less Chinese (actually the Han origin, so my father told me long time ago).

Religion - based on my conviction and the set of beliefs I subscribe to, and is toatlly between the Almighthy, the Creator or Whatchamacallit. No government decree can suppress my inner convictions, nor does it make me more religious than others if I myself do not subscribe to the man-made definitions.

Nationality - yes, I was borned into it and due to man-made laws, am granted certain rights to be called this or that nationality. This is the least 'important' (for want of a better word) of the three, in terms of natural association of the human kind. But this CAN, and IS the one component that binds a people, regardless of skin colour, religious preference, gender, age, etc. into ONE.

So, if a government is responsive to the aspirations of the people, it should not have to worry too much on the first and second components, but work on the third one. Then you see the importance of it! There is nothing much the govt can do about a person's race or racial makeup. And there is only so much the govt can do to force or institutionalize religion onto the people. But harnessing the people's strength and aspirations you can do by working on that NATIONALITY component. It can be a strong adhesive to the grouping or association of people, especially so in this modern world where no one country can still claim to be of mono-ethnicity.

Don't get too hung up on the issue of race and religion, but give us reasons to feel proud to be called Malaysians!
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written by bumiputeri, August 05, 2008 00:00:22
Vanahom,

Thanks very much. I coudn't agree more with you here. I too, like many other non-Malays in this country, have seen, helplessly, countless incidents like the one you mentioned. In the present turmoil, I can only hope that the Divinity will save Malaysia!

I wonder why the Malays can't see the problem like we, the non-Malays do, is it that they don't understand what they doing and putting themselves into...... or ARE THEY JUST pretending to be ignorant and continue supporting BN in issuing the foreign MUSLIMS the bumiputera status in a vengeance against us the NONS?????

WHAT HAVE WE SINNED????? I ASK THE ALMIGHTY!!!!!!
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written by Loonie, August 05, 2008 03:11:52
Melayu-lah says:-
" I do not think Michael has got what it takes to undertake such a strenuous study on who and what are the Malays."

Ha.ha..ha..LOL!!! Hey Melayu-lah, I am sitting here in Canada getting myself in stitches laughing over how stupid your letter can get. You try to sound intelligent but your writing skills are atrocious. Any reader can tell that you did no homework and it's obvious you import information in bits and pieces that don't gel at all. Melayu-lah, Melayu-lah, you're so arrogant, empty headed and vain.
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written by AlanJaya, August 05, 2008 06:09:23
Melayu-lah

You must have been sodomied (read indoctrinated) by years of our local education policy. But than again, what else can we expect from a "civilisation" which is very young? A civilisation which started when one soul purportedly embraced Islam. Again, according to our local education policy!!!

What tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
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written by bexe, August 05, 2008 06:21:45
The scribes that wrote the holy books be it the Quran or the Bible were (by today's standards) partially literate, at best. People who wrote Genesis thought the world is flat. And if you believe we all came from Noah's ark, then you can believe in Santa Claus.
So I would rather believe in today's anthropologist who uses science rather than fairy tales.
As some readers have pointed out, Chick's article isn't about the accuracy of the lineage of the Malays but more about the manipulation of the definition of that race by sinister politicians. He challenges the believe that has been sold to the Malays that they are the anointed and superior race of Malaysia. You will agree even the holy books do not make such claims; the Jews excluded for they say they are God's chosen people. Having said that do you see Jews going around staking supremacist claims and claiming hand-outs?
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written by oknyua, August 05, 2008 10:47:21
Mr Melayu-lah, I actually pity the real Melayu in the Kampongs. Just look at the ease on how people can be a Melayu, and therefore a bumiputera.

Arab, Indians, Pakistanis, Europeans etc married to a Malay girl, then children all Melayu/Bumiputera. This generation is already controlling the politics and economy of Malaysia. Another generation, all the Kampong (real) Malays would be far behind in all aspects.

Please don't be sentimental about the word Melayu, whatever Michael Chik described it. Please be more concerned about the imbalances within the Melayu itself. The way the politics manipulated "melayu" it would lead to its destruction in one or two generations away.

Thank you and peace be wth you.
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written by cruzeiro, August 05, 2008 13:07:29
But your logic and argument leaves much to be desired ....
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written by renoir, August 05, 2008 17:18:03
The word Zhongguo or Centralized/Middle Country was used during the Zhou dynasty, but evidence in writing existed only sometime during the Spring and Autumn period (about 600 BC). It's not surprising that the highly cultured peoples of that civilization saw themselves as "central" - this was the land of Lao Tzu, Confucius, Mo Tzu, Mencius, Sun Tzu, etc. Here, for the next few centuries, orality would give way to a highly literate culture because of the invention of paper, and soon afterwards, printing. The former, printing, was recently shown to have existed even before Cai Lun (perhaps Cai Lun was given the credit because of his very modern process involving the smashing of plant materials into pulp, then adding binding substances to produce thin sheets of paper). Regarding their country as central or middle isn't unique to old civilizations - Germanic and other northern Europeans used to call their lands "midgard" or "Middle Land" (this term became a political hot potato during the time of Chancellor Schmidt [?], when he called East Germany "Middle Germany" - hinting at German lands inside Russia). The word "Zhongguo" was also used for the Southern Song dynasty and the modern official revival of this word took place when Dr. Sun established the Zhonghua Minguo (Republic of China).

The Chinese never called themselves "Chinese" - this was a term used by her neighbors (after the Chin dynasty, about 200 BC). Today, that term ("China")is used only in other languages - the Chinese still call themselves "Zhongguo Ren," a reminder of their ancient heritage. Thus there's no such thing as a Chinese race. The vast majority called themselves "Han" or "Tang" because of their pride in those two great dynasties. However, there're over 50 minorities in China, including the Man, Mongolians, and Russians. So a Heilongjiang ethnic Russian who's a Chinese citizen is also "Chinese." The term "Chinese" therefore refers to a nationality of China, not ethnic origin.

Historically, "race" - as the West conceives it - didn't exist in China until the early 20th century. You're either in the Tian-Xia ("all under heaven" or Empire) or outside it, in which case you'd probably be considered a barbarian, except for Indians which was placed in a special category because they were from the "holy land" of the Buddha.

If the race concept was absent in China, what was the sense of identity that united the "Chinese"? Other than the sense of being members of great empires, they also have the sense of common history, place, and culture. This sense of history stretches into the legendary times, when the Yellow Emperor divided the lands and gave the surnames we now associate with all "Chinese." The emergence of surnames was not static, however. Besides the ancient names of Chen and Lin and other common ones there were "recent" additions (about 1,000 years ago) such as Ma and Hu, short for Mohammed and Hussein. The sense of belonging to continental China, where the great Yellow River and the Yangtze flow, became even more poignant with the arrival of the modern age, when impoverished Chinese were forced to emigrate to all parts of the world. The culture they brought along was never forgotten - some becoming part of other cultures as well. Some examples are the Dragon boat festival, celebration of the Lunar New Year, the eating of noodles, dumplings (Filipinos call it the Hokkien way - "ba chang") chopsticks, stirfry, the wearing of silk, not to mention pastimes such as flying kites and "wei-chi" or "Go").

Back to the article: to me, being "Malay" simply means being what they're now. It does not matter where Malays come from or the multi-sources of their origins. Rather, it's precisely because the "Malay" is the product of many cultures that makes "Malayness" a thing familiar to other ethnic groups. Thus Malayness shouldn't be a hindrance, but an asset for national unity. It's only when that concept became a toy for dividing Malaysians that we've all this controversy today.

LChuah
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written by mikewang, August 06, 2008 11:55:10
Chinese is not a race, anymore so the Malays.
Chinese is a western word describing the class of people or their ancestors who had their roots in China.
No Chinese, as a matter of fact, call him/herself as "Chin" people in the Chinese language.
They would rather call themselves, the "Han" people, the "Tang" people or simply the "middle kingdom" people.

The word "Chinese", as used in people, is just the description for those who can trace their roots in China.
The Hans, which forms 90% of the people in Mainland China are the majority race.
Most Chinese who emigrated to other lands (including those who came to South East Asia) are from the provinces of Fujian and Guangdong.
The majority of the people from these 2 provinces are Hans.
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written by Awang Hitam, August 06, 2008 19:42:33
written by tcng, August 04, 2008 | 16:35:
If a orang Melayu become USA Citizen and no longer profess Islam, what would he be?

Amelayucan! Serious, only malayu can ma!
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