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My God is different from your God PDF Print
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Wednesday, 30 July 2008 12:35

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Sure, I whack and insult those Malays who claim to be Muslims. But they are not of my religion. I am not of their religion. They and I do not share the same God. I whack and insult them because they have false Gods.

NO HOLDS BARRED


Raja Petra Kamarudin 

Call to media to stop portraying Islam, Muslims negatively

(Bernama, 30 July 2008) -- The media must give fair coverage and balanced representation on Islam and Muslims in reporting conflicts involving Islam and Muslims, said Dr Haja Mohideen Mohamed Ali, a lecturer from the Communications Department of International Islamic University of Malaysia (IIUM).

He said distinctive choice of words, phrases and terminology used by the media in reporting on Islam and issues concerning Muslims could have a negative impact on the perception of Islam and its followers by the global public.

"Some of the media are responsible, they like to look things from a proper perspective but a lack of understanding of Islam and Muslims cause them to use negative terms when reporting on the religion and Muslims," he said when presenting his paper "Linguistic (MIS)Representation of Islam and Muslims in Conflicts Reporting in the Print Media" at the International Conference on the Representation of Islam and Muslims in the Media here, Tuesday.

Haja Mohideen said the misrepresentation of Muslims could also be found in the media from Muslim countries, although at a smaller scale compared to the media from the West.

His views was shared by another scholar, Dr Zulkarimein Nasution, a lecturer from the Communications Department of the University of Indonesia.

Zulkarimein said bias against an ethnic or religious group such as Muslims in the mass media had negative impacts on peoples beliefs and perceptions and that the best approach to minimise the effects was through education.

"The public, especially the younger generation, should be taught how to analyse the mass media. They should be made aware that the representations made by the media are not always appropriate, and that what they see or hear in the mass media is not always the reality," he said.

He said, when a negative act was done by non-Muslims, the media did not label their act by their religion but only focused on their act alone unlike Muslims' negative acts, where they are always associated with the religion they profess.

He said the media should give a neutral representation of Muslims by not giving any reference to the doers of the act, rather by referring to the act itself.

More than 27 communications scholars from Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Canada, Qatar, Indonesia, the United States and United Arab Emirates are participating in the two-day conference which ends tomorrow. The conference is organised by IIUM.

*************************************************

Malaysia proposes setting up Research Centre to promote positive image of Islam

(Bernama, 30 July 2008) -- Malaysia has proposed the setting up of a research centre to provide positive representation of Islam and Muslims to the world through the media.

In disclosing this today, Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar said the proposed centre would likely be set up at the International Islamic University of Malaysia (IIUM).

"The Malaysian government will only be too pleased to provide the necessary resources for such a research pursuit," he said in his opening speech at the International Conference on the Representation of Islam and Muslims in the Media, here, Tuesday.

Syed Hamid said more research efforts should be undertaken to help rectify the misrepresentation of Islam.

"A mass communication research centre can help to generate the requisite intelligence and scientific scholarship to salvage the situation," he said.

Syed Hamid said the proposed research centre should be tasked with conducting theory-driven research and thus would make the present discourse on Islam and Muslims more meaningful and substantive.

"The research output from the centre can be used by the media industry and practitioners to provide an alternative packaging on Islam and Muslims to the world.

"Islam, which depicts tolerance, harmony and goodwill, has been totally ignored by the western media.

"Stereotypical visions and conceptions on Islam and Muslims have given rise to a tremendous amount of confusion and distorted understanding in the minds of non-Muslims as to what true Islam is."

The situation, he added, was further worsened by the branding of Islam into negative labels through ignorance, and this negative branding was increasingly becoming a more popular description of Islam in both the mainstream and non- mainstream media, especially in the west.

More than 27 communication scholars from Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Canada, Qatar, Indonesia, the United States and United Arab Emirates present their papers on Islam and Muslims in the Media at the two-day conference which ends Wednesday.

The conference is organised by IIUM.

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Last night, I met up with somebody who was introduced to me by a mutual friend. I never met this person before, not until my friend introduced him to me last night. My friend did not tell me beforehand what the meeting was about and all I knew was that this man wanted to reveal some information and hand over some documents with regards to a corrupt act on the part of the current Minister of Works.

Ironically, this Minister is the same man who replied in Parliament that there is nothing wrong with a foreign supplier paying commission to their local Malaysian agent who helps them lobby for a Malaysian government contract. This is not corruption but commission, argued the Minister in his declaration to Parliament. He was of course referring to the more than half a billion Ringgit commission that Razak Baginda’s company earned on the purchase of the submarines and which today is the focus of the Altantuya murder trial.

The contact showed me the Agreement that the Minister of Works, Mohd Zin Bin Mohamed, had signed with a Bangladesh company. Mohd Zin is the Chairman and 49% shareholder of Silkway Cargo, the MAS GSA for Bangladesh, and the contract involves a kickback of RM25 million that his Bangladeshi partner paid him as commission for getting the MAS agency for Bangladesh.

Mohd Zin’s Bangladeshi partner, Sheikh Farid Ahmed Manik, has since been arrested by the Bangladesh government and has been charged for the crime of money laundering. It seems this RM25 million was illegally transferred from Bangladesh to Malaysia and some of it was paid into Mohd Zin’s secretary’s bank account at Maybank Shah Alam (account number 512101058235 in the name of Hasnita Binti Ahmad Bastaman) while part of it was collected in cash whenever the Minister makes a trip to Bangladesh.

Yes, this Minister with two Muhammad’s in his name is no different from the ex-Menteri Besar of Selangor who also has two Muhammad’s in his name. Why are these Muhammads son of Muhammads so corrupt? And they not only get away with all this corruption but also have the gall to declare in Parliament that commission received from foreign companies as kickbacks for awarding them Malaysian government contracts is not corruption.

No, it is no use setting up Research Centres or holding conferences to discuss the image of Muslims and Islam. It is also no use asking the media not to run down Muslims based on their religion, Islam. When leaders with two Muhammads in their name argue that corruption is okay and that corruption is not corruption if it is commission given as kickbacks for awarding foreign companies Malaysian government contracts how can that help the image of Islam or Muslims?

Malays are just so corrupt. The political leaders are even more corrupt. When the Police Force, Immigration Department, Customs Department, Anti-Corruption Agency, Ministries, Local Councils, etc., -- you name it -- are all extremely corrupt, how can that help the image of Islam and Muslims?

The chap last night told me that he brought this matter to the attention of the Anti-Corruption Agency and the ACA Deputy Director offered to ‘mediate’ in the matter. The ACA Deputy Director volunteered to play the ‘middleman’ role and help ‘negotiate’ a fee with the Deputy Minister to ‘settle’ the case. This is the Deputy Director of the Anti-Corruption Agency talking. Instead of pursuing a corruption case against the Minister, he instead offered to broker a deal so that the complainant can receive a kickback from the Minister concerned.

Later that same night, I went to meet a senior police officer who moves in the same circle as the IGP. He told me horror stories about the links between the IGP and the organised crime syndicate headed by BK Tan. I was so disgusted I cut the meeting short. Two stories of high-level corruption in the Police Force and the Anti-Corruption Agency were enough for one night. I did not want to hear more.

Yes, whether they carry the name of Moses (Musa) or have two Muhammads in their name, they are all the same. They are all corrupted to the core. But there is one difference between them and me. They worship money. I worship God. They pray to the Ringgit. I pray to the Lord. So they are not of my religion.

Sure, I whack and insult those Malays who claim to be Muslims. But they are not of my religion. I am not of their religion. They and I do not share the same God. I whack and insult them because they have false Gods. And worshiping false Gods is prohibited in all religions, not just in Islam.

Sure, set up your Research Centres. Organise conferences, seminars, forums and conventions. Ask the media to stop whacking and insulting Malays who pretend to be Muslims. But this will not change the image of the Malays who pretend to be Muslims. This will not convince non-Muslims that the Malays who pretend to be Muslims pray to the Lord. And even if you carry two Muhammads in your name the people will still remain unconvinced because they know that Malays who pretend to be Muslims, even those with two Muhammads in their name, pray to the Ringgit, not to the Lord. And that is why Malays who pretend to be Muslims are so corrupt. It is because they pray to the Ringgit, not to the Lord. Their God is money.

Comments (123)Add Comment
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written by Batangkali, July 31, 2008 10:46:57
It is not what the media says that determine how non muslim perceive or think about muslim or islam.

It is the behaviour of the Muslims that give them a bad name. For instance, on Friday, after prayers, having heard the sermon, and praising God in the mosque, as a religion of peace, why go and demonstrate, destroy cars or threaten others. This is not only happening in Malaysia, but in Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, etc etc, almost all muslims areas.

Secondly, in Malaysia, we meet Muslims friends who will not touch anything that is not halal, which show their religious piety, but wil not hesitate to accept bribes or be taken to massage parlours, sex joints for entertainment, especially when they are in position of power.

Also, with our next door neighbours who prays daily, dress in religious clothes and will not allow their daughter to wear jeans, but have tudung, but the father, man of the house, have a different standard. He can frequent massage parlours & girlie joints and have sex as long as his daughters does not know.

We can go on, & on, with all the stories, bear in mind, it is not the Media or press that give Islam a bad name but the behaviour of Muslim themselves that give islam a bad name. It is not about bombing in Iraq or Palestine, but the behaviour and actions of muslims to your neighbours, wherever he may be that give Islam a bad name. The personal action of muslims speak louder that the Media or Press.

Don't blame the Media, Press or others or non muslims for the negative image created. Muslims must behave themselves or worthy to be muslims tio earn respect for Islam.
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written by Ben, July 31, 2008 10:47:21
Oh how the many believers in the one and only living true God beat their breasts at the audacity of sinners who pray to false Gods. How can they continue to sin and not be fearful of God? Are their hearts so filled with pride and blinded by money that they have lost their ways? Confess and repent your sins today.

The "fear of the Lord" prompts one to depart from evil - Proverbs 16:6
"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Co 7:1)
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written by Tom n Jerry, July 31, 2008 11:36:32
The number one problem inMalaysia is Muslims equate religion to race,which is not quite proper;always of the opinion that Malays are Islam,no doubt that is true in Malaysia because Malays are born Islam;dont forget that there are hundreds of millions of Chinese born as Muslims in China!China & India are very multi-religious-Hindus,Christians,Muslims ,Buddhists & Taoists!Race & religion should be put in proper perspective to avoid misunderstanding in a multiracial nation where there are people professing very diversified beliefs!
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written by Tom n Jerry, July 31, 2008 11:45:35
RPK!you are very transparent when you say they pray to the ringgit,and not to the LOrd!Perhaps we should ask MUIS to be more proactive to teach Islam in its original version and make sure these so called Muslims adhere to its true teachings! smilies/smiley.gif
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written by bakas, July 31, 2008 19:03:12
These is what we have been talking all this while. If a believer says that he believes but do not practise and acts like a believer, then he is not a follower of that religion. If they are God-fearing, they would not have done all those heinous crimes and hope to be forgiven when they are at death's door.

Scream all you want and say how great your religion is, but no one will heed you because ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS! No matter no much money you spend on such programmes or campaigns, people will see you as you are by your deeds!

Sigh...I wonder whether they realised that they looked like stupid and ignorant people when they do this? Action speaks louder indeed!smilies/grin.gif
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written by expectorant83, July 31, 2008 19:28:53
Dear Tom n Jerry,
What are u trying to tell us? Islam don't have any commandments or precepts such as Christians and Buddhists. ..Not to confront you but I am curios about the tones in ur writing. You don't hate Islam don't you?

Guys..(and gals too who read this piece of thread)
Religion is not the one to be blame. Can't you get it? There is bad Muslims, Catholics, Jews or any other 'bad behavior believers which don't portray the true color of their religion'... I don't mind if u guys whacked those bastards with ur writing but please..don't insult the religion.(I'm not telling that i'm pissed off with RPK, he is right..in this particular case).

There are 5 pillars of Islam and 6 articles of faith (wiki the word ISLAM if u are curios of what that is all about). There is nothing mention about having faith on 'Money Lord'. Yet, some of them worship money. same goes with other 'believers' too.

Blame it on them, don't blame it on their religion. Hate them, don't hate their faith. Islam has nothing to do with it. The true Muslim won't do that(accept bribery, rape-kill-and burn, or does other shit). Same goes with other religions too. True Christians won't do sins. Right??? ask yourself first? (Are u a good believers or u are just the same as those scumbags?)

You chose to pay RM50 to the 'some guy in uniform who stopped you after running the red light' for 'Duit Kopi'(a cup of coffee is just RM1!! I hate that term) rather than paying RM300 for your summons. Congratulations, you just bought his integrity. Same goes with YOUR INTEGRITY too. Just at the price of RM50, 2 individuals integrity vanished. (some of them pay more..so their integrity were sold at even higher price..Will that make them more valuables?hehehe..NO!!They would be at the same level with the RM50 people). Integrity is PRICELESS. Means that, if u were offered 1 TRILLION Ringgit to 'TUTUP MATA' u would turn down the offer and do the right thing to do.

Ask ur self first? Will u turn down 1 trillion offer(If u are in uniform)?
Most of you will say yes(it's ridiculous..nobody has 1 trillion ringgit driving around KL so you opted to answer YES, I will turn down the offer (since the guy looks crazy and he is driving 1987's Proton SAGA)).

**** those who offer bribes to the guys in uniforms. Even though 'he' ask for it, u are as ****ed up as other 'no integrity leaders, public servants, altantuya murderers or any other walking SHIT!!!..if u proceed on buying n selling his and your integrity.

Don't tell me that another RM250 can buy perishables for two weeks house supply. Be a man, admit ur fault (if u run down red light or other making other mistakes-not just on the road dear readers).

The country needs more people with priceless INTEGRITY.
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written by cruzeiro, July 31, 2008 20:17:03
It has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with education.
It is the education that has been corrupted since the start of the NEP (aka 'social contract') and formation of Biro Tata Nincompoops - two immoral institutions that breeds corruption.

I'm sorry RPK - but I think you're hitting out at the "people of a race/religion", but not the institutions that breeds the corruption at the expense of justice and integrity.

The problem starts when these ideas of "crook" are stressed on via the "creed" of "Racial Supremacy" or "Religious Chauvinism".
They believe that they cannot be wrong - they are "Mr & Ms Right", and their fisrt name is "Always" - that is in God's name, mind you!

Children at a tender and impressionable age, are thought and programmed from elementary classes, that it's their right to come up tops - by hook or crook.

They are taught that it is okay to cheat - that it is their "God-given" privilege to cheat, as long as a man in robes and a serban says so in the name of "religion".
Or a kris-brandishing maniac who's an "acclaimed" leader by virtue of birth!
Ethics and morality are lost on these guys.

When they are rewarded for dismal performance, with cooked up results (different standards used), given opportunities when the more desrving are denied - they are already bribed and corrupted!
Any which way you look at it , any man who can say that he deserves to be rewarded for mediocrity by virtue of "birthright", when excellence isn't, is already corrupted.
We have a whole generation of them in Malaysia.

What else can we expect?
Integrity or excellence doesn't mean anything - it was never part of the curriculum.
The curriculum is twisted to have ego boosting and corrupting effect on the students! The result is "brain-dead" holier than thou automatons who have lost the ability to think.
Corruption is the "ideal lifestyle" that is sought to be emulated (..... just look at how they glorify gangsters and robbers with awards).

The Malays have been corrupted (not that 'others' aren't - but in Malays of 'high standing', it is quite 'endemic'), without even them realizing it - no matter how much they indulge in penances.

Even the Tok Guru "rebels" in certain parties, are willing to negotiate with the corruptors, based on these very ideals of corruption. As long as it is for the greater glory of "Islam-as-I-say-tion".
Their faith appears to be weak at best - they seem to thrive on the fears induced upon them by the corruptors.
One Guru even mentioned about some political leaders being killed, people being deprived of 'things' and oil royalties being stolen, as reasons to work with the devils.

I wonder who's corrupting whom ....
These guys should just concentrate on the ****** Ad above, and forget everything else :

"Faraj Lebih Ketat
Atasi faraj longgar dan berair.
Suami pasti puas.Dijamin. RM67.00"
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written by cruzeiro, July 31, 2008 20:19:20
As you said earlier, Pete - it all boils down to conscience and "shame".

When you have lost these two, you have lost all it means to be human.
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written by lynn, July 31, 2008 20:57:15
We want to hear millions of Muslims in this country come out & condemn decades of corruption in Bodohland. I once asked a Malay lawyer (female), hey, what you think abt the corruption in this country, isn't it getting seriously bad? And she said, 'where got corruption in Msia?'... yep, she said that, cross my heart.

In fact, I want to thank Mr Ahmad Said the MB of Trengganu for coming out to say ACA shld investigate Monsoon Cup & Crystal Mosque, and many others. His purchase of 14 Mercedez is deliberate, calculating, very clever move. It drew attention of all to the V6 Perdana AND ITS WHOPPING maintenance bill, and one thing leads to another, and another. Still in denial?

Since the Malay population are the majority in this country, pls voice out against corruption. As for me, I have decided to pay my summons in full at the police station years ago! Stop the corruption! NOW, we must start somewhere.
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written by pedagogical, July 31, 2008 21:00:29
The problem boils down to that they think they are god.

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written by power2u, July 31, 2008 21:16:22
Pete,please don't ever meet up with Uncle (or is it Auntie Pet)...He looks like he is turned on by you(Very dangerous loh...better wear chastity belt)
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written by harrbm, July 31, 2008 21:50:31
><

dear Yang Mulia RPK

I can agree with you about some muslim malays who enforced their religion values on others but they themselves are culprits. I met plenty of them. some of them are very proud of it. It's very disgusting but what can a layman do?

Anyway, tell more of the high level corruptions. This people must be brought to justice and their whole family should be beheaded without mercy if they are found guilty beyond any reasonable doubts. too cruel to punish the whole family? I dont think so.

><



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written by mykantree, July 31, 2008 22:27:33
Fully agree that the bad behaviour of the people who profess themselves muslim are the ones who gives islam its negative image.How else would oneperceive any religion when one kills in its name,riot in its name,maim in its name, destroy in its name and discriminate in its name.
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written by lynn, July 31, 2008 22:41:46
RPK,
May I suggest you make a 'corner' to accummulate all the corruption stories: all cases classified under corruption, cronyism, nepotism, wastage, mismanagement, extortion, abuse of power, etc. ... maybe too long?

Or just a collection of corruption - let the readers digest all the trillions of ringgit wasted by this useless corrupt gomen.
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written by trublumalaysian, July 31, 2008 22:44:54
Quote: It has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with education.
It is the education that has been corrupted since the start of the NEP (aka 'social contract') and formation of Biro Tata Nincompoops - two immoral institutions that breeds corruption. Unquote"

BTN, the moronic & evil purveyors of hatred who corrupt the thousands of young malay minds and have kept them suspended in Zombie-like state, till this day.

'nuff said ...
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written by Taiping60, August 01, 2008 00:46:37
Mr RPK, in all due respect, it has nothing to do with God and religions.

What you are referring to those people in power who are corrupted. No, no religion thought them this way. No God will tolerate this. So please keep God away from this doing of this people as these people are beyond repent. Their actions were guided by the devils.

Everyone regardless or religions and races should be ASHAME of their actions.

SHAME
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written by johntyc, August 01, 2008 02:21:36
Really hoping that one day there won't be any more corruption, regardless of their race or religion.

It is disgusting to interpret corruption as commission.

These corrupted peoples never believe in their God. That's why they don't fear God. Every time we see them pray in Lord house, we only see their body, but never their soul. They're actually just like demons. Telling lies almost all the time. Hope good ordinary peoples know how to judge.
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written by non conformist, August 01, 2008 08:01:33
Sir RPK,

The bottom line is this:
When Islam is not embraced,
voluntarily and freely and intelligently by so many,
but instead they are born into it,
and FORCED and COERCED to remain in it,
EVEN though they are really ATHEISTIC and GODLESS by nature,
the natural result is evil you wrote about.

A religion that forces and coerces a man to remain in the religion he does not really practices makes a real mockery of that religion. I fear Islam is such a religion.

When men do not have a holy fear of God in their heart, there won't be any real self-government, and corruption and 'sodomy' of all sorts will continue - no matter what religious labels they wear.

sing, penang
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written by densemy, August 01, 2008 08:52:38
Wah wah wah... I'm crying into my teacup as once again I'm told that we non muslims lack an understanding of Islam and of Muslims

So how much do Muslims understand their religion? They learn it like parrots before they are able to reason for themselves, they carry out the rituals like trained monkeys under pressure from their peers and they are restricted by the constitution and social standards from ever discussing or questioning their religion

A good thing too because Islam is so dysfunctional that no thinking person could maintain such compulsary devotion
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written by teo siew chin, August 01, 2008 09:24:03
this nation is infested with (1) corrupted people who (2) manage to weasel their way into power. so it's a double whammy for the country.

let's not be naive and think it's just the muslims - those who profess other religions are just as bad if not worse.

but perhaps it's cos they come from the same School of Politics with the motto: promise the rakyat the sun and moon before election and fcuk them through and through after.

All being fair in love and war, dont spare the rod YM RPK whether at the BN or PR - in fact wield a bigger rod at PR if at the onset their intention was self-enrichment with no care or concern for the rakyat.
Such betrayal of the rakyat's trust and hope at a crucial time of despair calls for no less than a public hanging from the highest tree!

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written by Koleta, August 01, 2008 09:38:34
Densemy. How ignorant you are.
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written by slash n burn, August 01, 2008 09:54:24
Malaysian controlled media….

Pejuang Palestin
Pejuang Chechen
Pejuang Moro
Pejuang Selatan Thailand Patani
Pejuang Taliban Al Qaeda
Pejuang Moqtada
Pejuang Islam..

Pemberontak Tamil Tiger
Pemberontak Zapatista
Pemberontak IRA
Pemberontak Tibet
Pemberontak Kristian
Pemberontak Hindu
Pemberontak…
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written by teo siew chin, August 01, 2008 10:29:39
Dear Yang Mulia Raja Petra

The attacks on MT is practically crippling this time round!
Do let us know if you need new furniture cos I'm sure by this time, there is not a decent piece left around that escaped your bashing smilies/grin.gif.
Give us a yell if you require anything.
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written by non conformist, August 01, 2008 10:41:04
I saw this site: http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Go take a look... quite a disclosure of things hardly mentioned and discussed.
=====

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble... Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Quran. 5:101-102)

========
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written by malaysianohope, August 01, 2008 11:11:29
Abang,
I don't think the Malays are corrupted but Umno is! It's like a drug which they are addicted to and they are hiding behind the religion to get rich the fastest way. We badly need a saviour to lift Malaysia out of the gloom, be it Anwar or somebody else.
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written by Panca Indera, August 01, 2008 11:48:14
SPOT-ON!!! RPK,

What you wrote is absolutely true, But the problem that lies within are:
1.Those people, their hearts are so blackened that they are unable to understand your message.
2.They are so blinded by the material world, they cannot distinguish diamond from zircon.
3.They are so DUMB (cannot hear and speak correctly) that they will tell lies instead of speaking the truth.
These people are NOT MUSLIMS IN THE TRUE SENSE. They are hypocrites or MUSLIMS BY NAMES ONLY.

A Muslim is defined by God in the Quran itself and compare this to those who claimed to be Muslims.

A Muslim is a believer in Allah and the Prophet (PBUH) do does the following:
1. Follows and Obeys all the command in The Quran.
2. Avoids and keep away from the Harams and Najis as clearly stated in the Quran
3. Does not practice RIBA
4. Dressed decently and covered Up as ordered.

In other words read the MANUAL and follow the SOP written there.
Not make your own rules and Interpretations.
As the people in IIUM and the so called Muslims leaders in this country, yes I agree with you they practiced a different religion, They worship Money and BN.

And most of they people knows no Better as they follow the religion of their fathers without studying or clear understanding and they called themselves Muslims. What a load of Hogwash!
smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by non conformist, August 01, 2008 12:33:03
Have you collected your rebate from the Post Office?

Pak Lah and His Cronies Screwed Us Again!


> Very disgusting!!!
> >
> > Dear Friends
> >
> > Before you read this article, please remind yourself
> to be cool. Do calm
> > down. Do NOT let your blood pressure go up
> unnecessarily.
> >
> > Ensure a family member of friend or colleague is
> around you. If you
> > collapse due to a heart attack, someone may be able to
> save you.
> >
> > Be Warned. Are you ready?
> >
> > If you are really piss off, please do yourself a
> favour. Email this article
> > to everyone you know including your enemies.
> >
> > Pak Lah and His Cronies Screwed Us Again!
> >
> > 16 06 2008
> >
> > ECM Libra FInancial Group Berhad has a stake in Pos
> Malaysia Berhad
> > (PMB)
through it's acquisition of Avenue Capital
> Resources in 2006.
> >
> > That deal left a bitter taste in the mouths of those
> knowledgeable in
> > the financial world as it was a clear case of
> insider's trading.
> >
> > Note that Khairy Jamaluddin was a Director of
> Investment in ECM Libra
> > in 2004 before he tendered his resignation after this
> infamous
> > debacle.
> >
> > However, Pak Lah's closest crony, Dato' Seri
> Kalimullah is currently
> > the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of ECM Libra.
> >
> > Recently, PMB was given the job of giving out the cash
> rebates to
> > replace of fuel subsidy. It is quite odd on why JPJ
> was not given
> > this role but instead it was given to a postal service
> company.
> >
> > Instead of the more
efficient and more relevant job
> function of the
> > JPJ, these cash handouts responsibility were thrusted
> into the
> > already mountainous variety of services PMB had to
> handle.
> >
> > The only defence that Pak Lah might see the
> appropriateness of this
> > move is the many branches of post offices nationwide
> which the public
> > can easily have access.
> >
> > But now, let's see how Pak Lah and his cronies get
> extra money out of
> > this purportedly 'for the rakyat' act of
> selflessness.
> >
> > For every transaction, PMB will get 10 sen commission
> on every RM10
> > of that RM625 and RM150 (for cars and motorcycles
> respectively).
> >
> > That means, for every transaction, PMB will get RM6.25
> for cars and
> > RM1.50 for motorcycles in the
form of transaction
> fees.
> >
> > There is about 11 million cars and 8 million
> motorcycles in this
> > country at the moment. Let's do the math :
> >
> > RM6.25 x 11 millions = RM68.8 million (for cars)
> >
> > RM1.50 x 8 millions = RM12 million (for motorcycles)
> >
> > A cool total of RM81 million for the whole exercise
> per year.
> >
> > Even if we use pareto principle and apply the 80/20
> ratio, RM65
> > million (80% out of RM82 million) would still fall in
> their hands.
> >
> > And this does not include the commission from RM200
> subsidy to be
> > given to each fishermen in the country!
> >
> > With RM117 million already paid out during the first
> day, I wonder
> > how much PMB will collect by March 2009.
> >
> >
This role was given to PMB and not JPJ because PMB is
> a public listed
> > company (read: profit oriented) while JPJ is
> government owned entity
> > (read : no cost to public).
> >
> > It's even funnier that those who own cars 2,000cc
> and above were told
> > to claim their RM200 rebate from the JPJ, not PMB.
> >
> > Why is this? Well, there are not many people with cars
> above 2,000cc
> > in Malaysia anyway.
> >
> > And JPJ do not impose any fees.
> >
> > This cunning way of trying to 'help' the poor
> while at the same time
> > enriching one self is very much prevalent in Pak
> Lah's
> > administration.
> >
> > What's worse, they are emptying the nation's
> coffers (from the
> > Treasury) in the form of cash rebates and transfer a
> percentage
of it
> > into their own pockets (through fees paid into PMB and
> ultimately
> > into ECM's bank accounts).
> >
> > And that my friends is how the poor get screwed to
> help the rich get
> > even richer!
> >
>
>
>
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 01, 2008 18:01:11
Do not cheat, Do not steal, Do not KILL, Be kind to your parents and orphans, DO NOT CORRUPT THE EARTH, now tell me people , do you need Mullahs, Priests, Rabbiis, Monks etc to know this? When you reboot in the morning and wake up, ALL these values are already in your BIOS.

When you think that Monks, Rabbiis, Mullahs etc can interceed, then you are already off the Path and think that you can pass the blame to them, just in case (common human instinct). No, you reap what you sow. By the way GOD does not have a STONE HOUSE in Mecca.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by AsamLaksa, August 01, 2008 18:15:28
Muslims want positive image? Easy. Get Muslims to stand on sound principles and persecute other so-called Muslims who commit wrongdoings such as tell the Muslim world to abandon Hamas and Al-Qaeda for their terror actions. No one would have bothered with the Talebans if the Twin Towers were not spectacularly brought down. What do you expect? You send planes crashing killing thousands while shouting God is great and you expect USA to sit idly on their butts? You blow up a cafe in down town Jurusalem and you expect the Zionist regime to just look on and say they deserved that? You should death to infidels and you expect the infidels to applaud "lovely show, chaps"? You shout death to apostates and expect non-Muslims to see Islam as non-violent? You snatch bodies of people with questionable faith and you expect the family members to see Muslims as reasonable?

Muslims want better image of Islam, then get off your butts and get your own house in order first. As long as Muslims blindly support fellow brother Muslim who commit wrongs, well... you reap what you sow and governments will waste money of further pointless public relations exercise.



Also stop all this nonsense of needing to understand Islam. Muslims do not even bother trying to understand others, so why should anyone bother trying to understand Islam? Even if anyone understands Islam it does not necessarily mean that it would improve Islam's image. In fact with the way things are going those who understand Islam would see that Muslims are some of the most blatant hypocrites. How many Muslims truly understand the faith they profess in? Able to memorise and quote the holy book is not understanding.



You also have plenty of bad people of all faiths so why pick on the Islamic faith? Because the other faiths do not have as many of their followers clamouring to show how pious they are while committing sins. So yeah you have corrupt Buddhists but not many of them pretend to be pious or point fingers at other sinning Buddhist. In fact many non-Muslims in Malaysia would say they are 'free thinkers' regardless of whether they commit any sins thus excusing them of religious hypocrisy but unfortunately this does not apply to Muslims. Like Muslims I know condemning some other Muslim who got caught gambling when I know they themselves buy illegal 4D. It all comes down to hypocrisy and as long as Muslims do not recognise the mass hypocrisy of Muslims and address it, then wonder no more why Islam gets a bad name.
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written by johntyc, August 01, 2008 22:46:06
Oh RPK, they are the same religion as you.

Only difference is theirs are umno version.

They pray to the same God you pray but umno version.

The 'kitab' they hold also umno version.

The teaching and rules they follow too are umno version.

That's why they think their corruption are actually commission!

So RPK, if you want to bring these 'sesat' group back to the real and original religion as you, umno must 'turun' first. I am optimistic!
smilies/cool.gif
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 02, 2008 02:06:32
Pancha No Indera,
Baitullah - God's created system, now where did you get the idea that it is that STONE house without windows in Mecca? Unless of course you believe the disbelieving Arabs bulat bulat. Stone worship is Stone worship. What else can I say. GOD doe not need your worship (budaya bodek membodek), unless of course you believe UMNO, and you need to worship(bodek) them as in Malaysia they are GOD. I will continue stirring SHIT until most of the SLAVES are liberated and there is nothing much you or anyone else can do about it.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 02, 2008 02:15:29
Oh by the way Pancha No Indera, your SOP is full of Arab corruption, just in case you are wondering. No need to be calling names such as arsehole etc unless you are Saiful's friend, as it will not make you any different from Osama Ben ****ing Ladin and his suicide bombers. Now do you understand?

Shalom
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written by Berean, August 02, 2008 03:23:16
To Pancha Indera & Admiral Tojo.... Hey guys, cool it down!!! I feel the heat through my computer. smilies/wink.gif

To be fair to Islam, hypocrisy exists in every religion. According to the Bible, we must always examine ourselves, and not always be quick to point our fingers at others. To only condemn others and not oneself is also a form of hypocrisy. Many Christians I know also worship money (called "Mammon" in the Bible). Yes, money is often worshipped as GOD. But in the end, money itself is not the root of the problem, rather the "love of money is the root of all evil".

RPK, these people want the world to have a better understanding of Islam. What brand or version of Islam are these people intending to project? I wonder, can can one really denounce the Taliban as being false Muslims? The Taliban don't worship money, as a result they are very poor and their places of habitation are highly undeveloped. They aren't even allowed to watch TV. Therefore on this basis, some people regard the Taliban as the true faithful Muslims following the ways of their Prophet etc.
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written by bakas, August 02, 2008 04:26:36
Panca, cool it! Admiral Tojo, back off! There are some lines that you don't cross after all. No need to resort to name-calling, we are to civilized for that. Save it for those corrupted people who rob, slander, scandalised and tear to shreds our beliefs, honor and integrity.

Sigh! Everytime we talk about religion or when RPK whacks those bullshit Muslims, these place becomes a 'gelanggang' for you guys to spar on your theological knowledge. Aren't we the same like those corrupted UMNOnians when we resort to name-calling, slander, inciting hatred among each other? Talking about religion is easy, doing it is hard. So start doing it now, practice what you preach. Even if your religion is whacked or put down, defend it. But don't stoop down to the same level as the offender or aggressor.

As they say, you don't give a flower to a monkey. You will end up with shit on your face. Get what I mean? smilies/grin.gif
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written by Panca Indera, August 02, 2008 11:35:35
Dear Bakas and Berean
Apology!
Ok, I will back off for the sake of unity on common goals and clear objectives, but TOJO will have to do the same. And I think that’s fair.

1.Respect for each others beliefs
2.Do not insult each other’s religion
3.Critisize a persons bad behavior or habits to rehabilitate. (constructive criticism)
4.Do not criticize or insult a person physical appearance as he/she is born with it.
5.Every person has a universal right (human right) to be treated in a fair equitable manner based on justice, fairness and the right to practice what he believes in a respectable way WITHOUT INFRINGING OR STEPPING OR INSULTING THE BELIEFS AND THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS.
6.The Right to seek redress and retaliations( in kind) against wrongful accusations or insinuation, incrimination, denigration, slander, defame or smear.
7.No statement of accusation or denouncement of others should be made without clear and irrefutable evidences.

note:As they say, you don't give a flower to a monkey. You will end up with shit on your face. Get what I mean?
At times the only way to knock some sense, to some people is to hit harder until they give up.
You cannot let them just say whatever they like without being accountable for it.


smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 02, 2008 11:35:43
Very clear for ALL to see. The mindset of those who follow the Arab Religion. As soon as you put forth something else, they jump, they claim that what they say is the truth. Then the insult starts. This is a clinical symptom of hypnosis. They ALL are under mass hypnosis.

Pancha No Indera, I am an expert at what the Kaaba is but I will abstain from posting for you might fall over and die. It was a center of IDOLATORY and remains so till today, except that today it has been so commercialised that those who have BIG SINS stay at 5 star hotels.

Shalom






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written by Admiral Tojo, August 02, 2008 11:46:39
Oh by the way, Pancha NO Indera, GOD's LAW, Sunna tullah - Gravity is one, the laws of Physics (Nature) is one. What made you think that it is some tribal law of the desert. It is you who do not comprehend.

With or without religion, good people will be doing good things and bad people will be doing bad things. However it takes RELIGION for good people to be doing bad things. Now go figure this truth, Pancha NO Indera.

Salaam/ Shalom
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written by richardwong, August 02, 2008 17:19:31
Tom & Jerry wrote: Christians have their 10 commandments; Buddhists their 10 precepts;how about Muslims?

My comment: Muslims have Quran Chapter 6, verses 151 - 153 equivalent ten commandments, the first of which is 'Join not anything in worship with God'; followed with 'be good and dutiful to your parents' and 'kill not your children', etc, etc . . give full measure and full weight with justice, and whenever you give your word say the truth even if a near relative is concerned.

I wish to add (in any dialog for religious understanding)the following:

Universally, the family of humans needs to respect God’s design for the world and constantly be aware of the great gift of God which creation represents for us because God’s mercy endures for ever.

Life in the true sense is not something we have, exclusively in or from ourselves. It is a relationship, and in its totality is a relationship with God who is the source of life. If we are in relation with God then we have “life” and then we may strive to truly obtain “peace” in our soul, mind and body.

We need to follow the nature designed by God, the nature according to which God has fashioned mankind and the universe, including the environments and all living things. Religion hence does not mean obedience to the law and forgetting that it can regulate only what a man does, not what he is.

Where there is inward purity, outward conduct can be allowed to look after itself. Legalistic religion concentrates on not doing wrong instead of on active and positive goodness. Many followers of sectarian creeds focus on externals, while ignoring inner attitudes. They pride themselves on being so clean and pious. They invariably are happy to be acknowledged publicly, for what they are not in private.

A hypocrite is one who observes prayer and fasts (i.e. rituals and rites), yet whenever he speaks, he ties a lie; and whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; and whenever he is entrusted, he betrays or proves to be dishonest.

The potent formal prayer for followers of Jesus Christ is the Lord’s Prayer and for Mohammedens it is the “Al-Fatihah”. Prayer is one pathway to be close to God.

The second pathway is to beware of those who are overly concerned about religious customs and, ultimately about their own authority to impose such customs. Therefore in your prayers you should also ask to be led to God’s light and God’s truth will set you free to hear and follow God’s word, which in a nutshell is: bowing to the will of God is to act against our egoism and pride (as well as our “love of sectarian law and traditions”) and to accept totally the will of God even if this means suffering, trial or misfortune.

There are those who are scrupulous about the tiniest regulations while being neglectful of much more important issues such as judgement, compassion and faithfulness to God’s will. They focus on their image, what people could see so that they could be admired for their observance of the law. But they are like whitewashed tombs, that is lovely on the outside but inside are full of stench and corruption.

How many of us have integrity, so that what people see is also what really is going on inside us? Blessed are those pure in spirit. Hope in God means confidence, constancy, perseverance, strength and “light”. Always read the scriptures with an open heart, focusing on the eternal truth of God which transcends every particular word and image.

The above discourse may have its foundation based on Biblical tenets, but even Mohammeden traditions point to similar treads. Honesty leads to Al Birr (righteousness) and Al Birr leads to paradise. The definition of Al Birr is contained in Chapter 2 verse 177 of the Quran and God’s religion is clarified in Chapter 30, verses 30-32.

The values (antithesis of the model human persona) which man needs to fight against are described in Chapter 3 verse 14 of the Quran. Our values may lead us to actual conflict with those around us but they are the only foundation on which we can trust to building a life that is lasting and which has meaning and true bliss.

Be like children who before they are conditioned by elders and custom practices, are open, filled with delight and wonder. Do not be hardened, rigid and stifled in the ways of a religious bigot. Let’s praise God for the diversity and ample humility found in all creeds, cultures and races.
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written by teo siew chin, August 03, 2008 12:20:23
The defence of one's faith is admirable - but to defend it by way of violence and vulgarity be it by acts or by words somehow reflects negatively on the very religion that we wish to defend.
Always keep in mind that we are the mirror of the religion we practice.
Whether good or bad, it is for the practitioner to reflect.

Panca Indera - do not let anger overcome you. Your religion has taught you what is good, what is kind - let that shine through instead.
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written by teo siew chin, August 03, 2008 12:32:39
Dear Admiral Tojo - ever considered religion was 'invented' to curb man's basic instinct to be violent, wild even? Or rather it is an attempt to curb, just as social laws and regulations are created to maintain a semblance of peace and order. But man is hell-bent on destruction, be it ourselves or the earth, don't you think?
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written by jack little, August 03, 2008 16:55:33
All we need is Love. Love is GOD. No one else.
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written by Malaysiaputra, August 03, 2008 17:30:12
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Looks like religious differences will be the cause of the coming World War 3.
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written by bakas, August 03, 2008 18:56:09
Panca,

Sometimes it's hard to convince those who are still hell-bent on making their points heard by way of peace and dialogue. Yes, it is always easy to hit back rather than being silent, but sometimes this is the most effective approach. By that, I mean you can ignore Admiral Tojo's comments as irrelevant as per discussion, if you feel that you can’t stand it. At another level, you have to give respect to people before you get it. That's why we see there is no point in engaging those who wishes to mock and downgrade our religion. Instead, give those opportunities to those who sincerely seek for enlightenment. So, Admiral Tojo, if you wishes to engage in a healthy dialogue, please do so in a less ‘hostile’ manner and kindly refrain from insulting our religion to a point where you hurt the feelings of others.

I would like to point out what Admiral Tojo puts out:

With or without religion, good people will be doing good things and bad people will be doing bad things. However it takes RELIGION for good people to be doing bad things. Now go figure this truth, Pancha NO Indera.

Granted people without religion still have choices of good and evil. But many of those good virtues came and have its origins in religion. The world use to practice "the strong eats the weak", but religions teach you to love the weak and to despise the strong who uses their strength to oppress the weak. I am not sure what Admiral Tojo really means, but reading the words above, I think what he is pointing out is that too many times religion is being used for bad purposes, and this could happen to good people as well. We might not realize it, but sometimes we do that to others as well. Believing in a religion does not mean that we should force others to believe in what we believe, simply because we have to. But it is for the purpose of wanting them to be able to see the beauty and goodness that the religion brings to their lives. This would be a more pragmatic approach, rather than calling tit-for-tat, and eventually they would be able to see us for what we are.

Personally for me, God plays an important part in my life. I think that it gives me a sense of direction, in a world where people are so occupied in looking after themselves and where justice is disappearing as fast as Bala the PI after the second SD.smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

I believe most of us here care about the country and the world that we lived in. If it is the UMNO cybertroopers I can understand...they are sent for the purpose of causing disunity and an air of distrust among us here, manipulating religion and race as their main points. So, rather than fall into this tried-and-tested trap, we would be better off in discussing other important matters.

Spread love guys, not hate and animosity smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

Peace to one and all smilies/grin.gif
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 03, 2008 22:42:33
Good Lord almighty, the froth coming out of Pancha No indera's mouth. For further understanding of my mindset please visit aididsafar.com.

Pancha No Indera says,
>>>The Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael rebuilt the Kaabah went they were in Mecca for pilgrimage during their time.

Sorry to say, but the Quran says he nor his tribe were never in Mecca. However the Arabs lied and we believe them wholeheartedly. If you need the verse references I can gladly give you. Then you most probably give me references from Al-Baqarah and I will rebut you and say that there is NO reference to Mecca in Al-Baqarah at all. This can go on and on till the cows come home.

The point is Pancha No Indera and those who subscribe to the Chosen People Syndrom, be it the Arab Religionist or the Evangelists Christians etc etc, there are people like me who, as the article say, have a GOD, other than the ones presented by religions of the World. We have come to the conclusion that religions weaken the people and hence people with religions can easily be manipulated into destroying each other and the environment. A case in point would be the Wright Brothers, who were declared heretics by their church during their time and yet today, even the Pope flies. Pancha No Indera and the likes of him will never comprehend what I am trying to say as their minds have been surrendered to their Mullahs, Priests, Rabbiis, Monks and what have you.

The Quran says, 'When GOD alone is mentioned, they writhe in anger, but when others are mentioned alongside GOD, they rejoice.'. Associating others alongside GOD such as Stone Structures, Prophets, Arab folklores, Money etc is strictly forbidden.

Teo Siew Chin, religions were created to weaken the people, period. Paroah used it, the Spanish conquistudors did it, Osama Ben Ladin did it, Harunsainy of Perak did it, everybody that say they represent GOD on your behalf is bullshitting you. GOD is omnipresent and within you and with you 24/7. No need for temples, churches, Arab Temples etc etc.

The funny thing is, I got to where I am by studying the Quran in depth. Others I believe gets divine inspiration in their own way, especially when they start using their commonsense and utilise their brains to the max. Thinking, not inside nor outside but without a box, so to speak. Now I hope you ALL can comprehend.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by bakas, August 03, 2008 23:51:13
Sigh...

Panca, you wrote:

"Wow this is news to me, I thought its always easier to ignore and be silent rather than spent valuable time to answer rubbish that’s being written."

"so you are taking sides now. I thought you were trying to be an honest broker). Anyway don’t give a shit. "


This is exactly my point. If it is easy to ignore and be silent, you would have ignored those hurtful things that Tojo said. Precisely because it's not easy that you are answering him back.

Anyway, since I am in your bad books now (you have seen me as taking sides with Admiral Tojo, no matter how I tried to explain his perceived intentions or maybe I am just plain stupid that I cannot see beyond his Islamophobia, without trying to take any sides), I will keep a mum on this. You guys can go ahead with your postings, though it pains me to see that you are being dragged into this useless and endless argument with him.

Anyhow, consider this my last brotherly advice to you for this matter. I just want you to look back to all your postings and see that it's utterly a waste of time for you to waste so much energy on defending it. Islam does not need defending, it needs manifestation of the truth about peace, and what you are doing is not peace-like at all.

Forgive me then for intruding into your discussion with Admiral Tojo. Pray continue till your heart is content.

Wasallam smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by bakas, August 03, 2008 23:59:15
Dear Admiral Tojo,

Please stop your attacks on people's religion. I might be able to still tolerate and try to see your point in the beginning, but this is getting from bad to worse.

Even if religion makes us weak (as you perceived), that is the business of those who believed. It doesn't give you any right to come in and just blurt whatever things that you want.

Kindly stop your attacks on Islam and the rest of the religion. smilies/grin.gif

Peace to you, if you havent got it already smilies/grin.gif
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 04, 2008 00:26:13
Bakas,
my greetings to you will always be peace. I have said enough. Please visit aididsafar.com and have a happy read.

To Pancha No Indera, there is absolute freedom in believe. If you say your GOD have a STONE HOUSE in Mecca, it is cool. My GOD however do not, the Lord of the Universe. The GOD of ALL mankind (An naas), Chinese, Indian, Malays, Mat Salleh and what have you. Muslims - those who are at peace, ISLAM - Peacefulness, very simple. If you are not corrupt and steal from the people the chances are that you are at peace. If you treat women as absolute equal, the chances are you will be at peace and not blame them for your lust. If you address issues as what they are, rather than along race (and religious) platforms here in Malaysia and not get distracted by religions and sects, the chances are the end result will bring peace. For as long as the rituals are more important than the substance, there will never be peace (Salaam).

I can rebut all those verses you put forth and expose their Arab corruption, but I will take Bakas advise and abstain.

Shalom



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written by teo siew chin, August 04, 2008 09:40:06
"...Teo Siew Chin, religions were created to weaken the people, period..."
----------------

Dear Admiral Tojo -

I can agree with that.

To let anger overcome us is a sign of weakness.

To close our minds, to close our hearts - are signs of weakness.

And I totally agree that as long as the "rituals are more important than the substance" there will never be peace.

And as long as people do not realise that you and YM RPK attack the 'rituals' and not the substance - there will never be peace.

God says do not kill - clasp your hands in prayer.
So man clasp his hands in prayer and after leaving the house of God, he uses
those very hands to harm, to hurt, to kill his fellow-men.

In our everyday ordinary lives we go about cussing, swearing, spitting forth vulgarities at the other person but come holy day, we enter the house of God all holy and nice - what the heck is that!?!?

bikin tak serupa cakap!
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 04, 2008 14:18:56
CatV5,
surrender? what do you mean by that? I just said that I will not continue in the process of showing that those who worship rocks have lost the plot, that is all. I did not want people frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog due to uncontrollable anger.

Islam - Peacefulness, Blissfulness, a sate of being, a paradigm.

So it is a case of me telling Pancha No Indera, lakum deenukum waliyaddin - To you your way, to me mine. Ini pun tak faham ke??

Shalom
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written by CatV5, August 04, 2008 15:20:13
I tot abstain is like a surrender... maybe i'm wrong :p

Yeah i get what you mean Tojo. Keep it up, open more eyes, let the mind ponder. Let the ego go to unrest. Bring it down. Let them understand sometimes u need a sharper "stone" to blow up the baloon. Hehe... gotta the love this "my god is different from your god" drama. It's the only solution these days to wake people up from their slumber. I would say keep it stirred guys, i'm countin on ya, kasi percik sama suma. hehe.

I also wanna cheer Panca Indera too for his effort in defending his beliefs. Keep it up bro. Both are right IMHO. Both hold an important script for the awakening of others. Just like Anwar and UMNO. Just like Iran and US. Just like Islam and Jews and Christian. Just like the Natural disasters and climate changes that has been happening a lot lately. Its all serve the purpose to awaken and inform us through chaos and confusion.

Pis
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written by CatV5, August 04, 2008 15:23:20
Oh crap, i forgot to cheer RPK.... Spot on RPK, you're the man!!
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written by CatV5, August 04, 2008 15:28:56
For further understanding of my mindset now please watch V for Vendetta. And The Matrix trilogy (gotta love the Wachowskis and Hugo weaving) Happy watching. smilies/grin.gif
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written by Berean, August 05, 2008 01:16:34
Dear Panca Indera & Admiral Tojo

I am not a Muslim, but I do know a bit of what the Muslims say about the Kaabah:

Admiral Tojo: the following facts from the Bible may add to your knowledge.

Panca Indera, pls allow me to quote from your Aug 2nd posting at 23.10. My response will be very simple taking most of my facts from the Jewish Torah and the Bible.

I really would like to see two of you adopt a more friendly approach to discussions. Panca, I know you tried doing that earlier.

Panca wrote : "as believers of Abrahamic religion, we believed man originated from ADAM, not like you descendant of monkeys. As such Muslims believed that Adam built the very first HOUSE OF WORSHIP ON THIS PLANET at the site of that stonehouse. The Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael rebuilt the Kaabah when they were in Mecca for pilgrimage during their time. The Kaabah was destroyed or ravaged by fire and floods over several millennia and the present building was rebuilt recently".

Berean writes: For thousands of years the following facts were undisputed : Abraham lived in the land of Ur (modern day Iraq) and then settled in Hebron. He never went to Mecca. His Jewish descendants never recorded it, neither did the Bible, which was careful in otherwise recording every other critical detail.

When Ishmael was 14 years old, Abraham's son Isaac from his only wife Sarah, was born. Shortly thereafter, Hagar (Abraham's maid and Ishmael's mother) and her son Ishmael were both banished from the land God had given to Abraham and his descendants (ie through his legitimate bloodline), and they settled in a land called Paran. Ever since then, the two "bloodlines" have been at war both physically and spiritually!

The Bible records that Isaac was to be sacrificed at Mount Moriah. The Quran says it was Ishmael. The God of the Bible called Isaac, Abraham's ONLY SON, denoting that this was the son whom the God of the Bible recognised.

Therefore, according to the Bible & the Torah, there is no reason why Abraham would have built the Kaabah.

The Kaabah was not in a state of disrepair at the time of the Prophet of Islam. There were 360 Idols of all kinds in there and a multitude of pilgrims already flocked to the Kaabah at Mecca, and walked around it for hundreds and hundreds of years prior to Prophet Mohammad's destruction of all the Idols(leaving one behind according to some historians).

Panca wrote : "During the time of the ascendancy of the lineage of the Prophet Jacob, and Israel the Holy house was built in Jerusalem called the Holy Temple or Holy House. All the Children of Israel and the believers of Abraham prayed there and in that direction if they were elsewhere."

Yes, the Bible did mention that The God of the Bible's Holy Temple was built in Jerusalem. The name Jerusalem is very personal to the Biblical Almighty God, Christ Jesus. Not only is Jerusalem mentioned throughout the Bible, it is also mentioned as belonging personally to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In contrast, "Jerusalem" is not mentioned once in the Quran.

Panca wrote : "When Muhammad PBUH was ordered to preach to the Arab idolaters, he initially taught them to pray in the direction of the Holy House in Jerusalem. Then later he was ordered to change the direction to the Kaabah, the original site of the first Holy House built by prophet Adam".

Adam lived before the great flood of Noah's time. Everything was destroyed in the flood. The 8 (eight) of them who survived the flood, would never have been able to find any remnants of such a place of worship, neither would the people who lived after that. Everything pre-flood was consumed by the wrath of God Almighty.

But you are right, the Prophet of Islam made his followers pray towards Jerusalem for a time and season, and for only one reason known to many observers; he was trying to convince the Jewish folks (Quraish Jews and other surrounding Jews) that he was the new messenger. Of course it didn't work, and we know they subsequenty paid with their lives.

It is clear from the above major discrepancies that the revelations in the Quran and in those in the Bible are very very different. This why I challenge Christians whenever they call on the name of Allah. These so called Christians believe that Allah is synonymous with the God of the Bible.

RPK may not agree, but Allah is the specific name of the Islamic God. After all, "there is no ILAH but ALLAH". Allah is not a generic name as many falsely believe. The use of the word Allah in the Christian circles is the result of Catholic lies!! It is official Vatican doctrine that Allah is Jehovah, in short, they believe the God of Islam is the God of the Bible. Even many foolish Protestants (a group who were enemies of the Catholics for hundreds of years) believe this. Nothing infact can be further from the truth.
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 05, 2008 01:37:29
See Panche No Indera, so very predictable,

Try this reading without ARAB CORRUPTION,

2:124 And when Abraham was tested by His Lord with the words (kalimatin) - thus, he completed it. We said, “Indeed I am making you for mankind as the head (imam)”. He asked, “And from my descendants”? I replied - “My promise does not include the unjust people”.

2:125 And when We made the system as providence for mankind and harmony – and you shall take from the position of Abraham who was committed. And We gave instructions to Abraham and Ishmael that - they should clean My system for groups of people - and those who are devoted - and those who humbly consented.

Abraham’s commitment in God’s system begins with cultivation of soil.. Those not committed get less - as retributions from God

2:126 And when Abraham said, “My Lord please make this country harmoniously and provide its people from the fruits for those among them who trust for God and the day of the hereafter. He replied, “And those who do not trust I will provide for them too - then I will force them to the agony of Hell - and it is the worst destination to return.

Abraham raised the foundation from God’s system to be consistent to His laws of creation

2:127 And when Abraham raised the foundation from the system (minal bayti) together with Ishmael, they said, “Our Lord please accept from us. Indeed it is You – Who hears - the knower.

2:128 Our Lord make us at peace (Muslims) to You and from our offspring – nations who are at peace (Muslimin) to You. And direct us the methods of self-sacrifices and please accept the remorse over us. Indeed it is You - Who redeems - the merciful. Abraham requests

Sorry, NO Mecca or Kaaba here, so do not lie

Anyway, 32:3 and 34:44 clearly states that the Arabs never received any books nor were they sent warners before the prophet that delivered the Quran. So ALL the stories about other prophets going to Mecca to idolise the Stone are ARAB CORRUPTION OF THE READING.

32.002
The book is, without a doubt, a revelation from the Lord of the universe.

32.003
They said, "He fabricated it." Indeed, this is the truth from your Lord, to warn people who never received a warner before you, that they may be guided.

34.043
When our proofs were recited to them, perfectly clear, they said, "This is simply a man who wants to divert you from the way your parents are worshiping." They also said, "These are fabricated lies." Those who disbelieved also said about the truth that came to them, "This is obviously magic."

34.044
We did not give them any other books to study, nor did we send to them before you another warner.

So how, Pancha No Indera, considered your self warned as to not lie about GOD knowingly.

Shalom

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 05, 2008 01:44:47
Dear Barean,
a simple question for you, what would be the answer if you met Jesus and ask him if he was a Christian. He will most probably ask you what is a Christian? He was a Jew, who rebelled against Judaism and never knew what a Christian is. Similarly, if you ask Buddha if he was a Buddhist, he most probably also be puzzled, as he was a Hindu Prince who rebelled against Hinduism.

Catch the drift? Ponder

Shalom
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written by bakas, August 05, 2008 03:21:13
Dear Barean,

You wrote:

It is clear from the above major discrepancies that the revelations in the Quran and in those in the Bible are very very different. This why I challenge Christians whenever they call on the name of Allah. These so called Christians believe that Allah is synonymous with the God of the Bible.

RPK may not agree, but Allah is the specific name of the Islamic God. After all, "there is no ILAH but ALLAH". Allah is not a generic name as many falsely believe. The use of the word Allah in the Christian circles is the result of Catholic lies!! It is official Vatican doctrine that Allah is Jehovah, in short, they believe the God of Islam is the God of the Bible. Even many foolish Protestants (a group who were enemies of the Catholics for hundreds of years) believe this. Nothing infact can be further from the truth.


First, let me show you what Wikipedia has for the definition of the name Allah:

Allah is the standard Arabic word for "God".[1] While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God". The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.

The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) differ among the traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters, a concept strongly opposed by Islam. In Islam, Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to the one God. Allah is unique, the only God, transcendent creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today, having no other word for 'God' than Allah, use terms such as Allāh "God the Father". There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.

The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God"

Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'. Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ab (الله الآب) meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al qudus (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit.


The Vatican (this is referring to the Catholic Church of course) has never used this. You are absolutely correct. But note, the Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews. But you were wrong when you say it is a lie concocted by the Christian Catholics. True, it was not taught in the doctrine, but the language to describe God in Arabic is Allah. So, pray tell me how do the Arabic Christians call God? You bet it is Allah.

The name Jehovah is the name used by the Jews to describe God. The word Jehovah is derived from the word YHWH. Traditionally, observant Jews do not say this name aloud. It is believed to be too sacred to be uttered and is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name.


So, you see, the word Allah or Ilahi does not belong to the Muslims alone. I would be ashamed of my brothers and sisters in Islam if they should think otherwise. It shows a clear disrespect towards the Christians and the Jews when this kind of misunderstanding still exist and nobody takes steps to really understand it. I have spoken about this issue a few times with another Muslim brother in one of RPK's thread, but it seems like we are still well short of understanding the Allah issue.

Well, what would you say to that? Again, I make my stand, that I would not like to see my God being placed as an exclusive 'trophy' or 'owned' by my faith alone. And the people in the government have the cheek to use this issue to 'pancing-pancing' your undi and your support. For goodness sake, God created all languages and if Allah means God and understood by all those who profess the religion, so be it. Who are we to claim this exclusivity for God?

Peace be to you smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif


Wasallam smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 05, 2008 10:28:11
Pancha No Indera said,
See you in hell.

This is a very common misconception of those who have other GODs. If you are a sectarian, bigot, racist, corrupt and generally a bad person, the chances are that you already are in your own created hell, in this world.

I really do hope you comprehend Pancha No Indera. You begining to sound desperate. To be well informed, you need to do your own reading and analysis, ponder, reflect, analyse and do not accept anything that you cannot verify. I can go on and on here but suffice to say that my GOD is not your GOD, the Arab created GOD of disbelieve. All those who are touched by this Arab Religion, the countries are in a state of turmoil and hell. Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan etc etc etc. These are called FAILED STATES.

Salaam/Shalom
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written by teo siew chin, August 05, 2008 11:12:42
he drew a circle to shut us out.
a rebel, heretic, oaf, lout.
but love and I have the wit to win -
we drew a circle and lead him in. smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Berean, August 05, 2008 23:35:51
Dear Chaps (I assume here Ad Tojo, Bakas, Panca are guys)

I can only reply from a Biblical perspective, and that often means being "politically incorrect". And I must apologize if what I write meets with your disagreement. However, don't for one moment be angry with me, as it is not I that wrote the Bible.

We Christians believe that God Almighty wrote and inspired the Bible through the various prophets. Human beings did not write the 66 books of the Bible as Muslims and other opponents claim. More about that another time.....

Admiral Tojo….. We believe Jesus of Nazareth came to earth ultimately for one purpose alone. It was not to rebel (although he admonished many of the religious leaders of the time) but to offer His "sinless" blood as atonement for our sins. Only God in human form (God incarnate) could pay the infinite penalty demanded for our sins. The logic is as follows: if there is that debit & credit system RPK spoke about in one of his recent articles, then we would never be able to wipe out our sins (ie debit always exceeds our credits) if not for the Son of God manifesting in the flesh and offering His blood as full payment for our deserved punishment and therefore was acceptable in the sight of God the Father.

Admiral Tojo.... becoz we believe Jesus is the "author and finisher of our faith", knowing the end from the beginning, and He would always have known what the word/term Christian would mean, as He was the one who created the name in the first place. The Bible records in the book of Acts: "the first Christians were in Antioch". You may not believe this but Christ Jesus (as He was called after His death and resurrection) had already detailed His plan for mankind's salvation before the earth, universe, Adam & Eve were formed. This is HOW MUCH GOD LOVED THE WORLD AND HIS CREATION !! Praise the Lord…

Bakas, if the Arabic Christians used the word Allah, as I understand they do, I wholeheartedly believe this is wrong. The original Biblical manuscripts were in Greek and Hebrew. These Christians should always have used the name for God in Hebrew, the name that was revealed by the God of the Bible to His believers. Anyhow I do believe that Catholicism was active in Arabia pre-Islam. Of course Khatijah was none other than a Catholic before she converted.

Question: if Allah is a word used generically, then who is the Muslim God? To Hindus, Krishnan is God. To Christians, Christ Jesus is God.

Isn't Allah the description and the name of the Muslim God (ilah)?

Thank you for your answers in advance. Time for bed!!
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written by Panca Indera, August 06, 2008 00:59:52
dear Berean
Allah is the Arabic word for GOD as far back as the Arabs can remember their language.
Of course before Islam ALLAH was the Chief God among he Hundreds that the worship around Kaabah.
With the coming of Islam, naturally ALLAH was used by GOD himself in the Divine revelation.
Allah is an Arabic word. that has been accepted by Muslim universally by Muslims because thats the name God used in the Book.
Hope thats explain. smilies/cool.gif
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written by CatV5, August 06, 2008 09:19:49
Panca, if i'm not mistaken the Arab worships Al-lat, Al-uzza and Manat (53:19-20). Allah name came from Muhammad's mouth IMHO. Or maybe the Arabs deliberately remove the 't' and replace it with 'h'. That's all i know.

I found another god, he said to let go the past....

Fresh off the Vine
Heavenletter # 2811 Published on: August 5, 2008
God said:

Troubles of the past are no more than troubled thoughts of the past. The past is misbegotten. And the past is illusory. Desist bringing the past into the present. It is an exercise in futility. You can never win this game you play. Lose the past, and keep today viable and vibrant. Chew the candy that life offers you today. When you come across old candy, throw it away. It had its time, but now that time is past. Get some fresh candy today.

When you are at the cinema or watching a movie on TV, you do not ask the projectionist to reel off an old movie. You want to look at the movie that is right before you. An old movie may have been wonderful, or it may have been scary. In any case, it isn't the movie playing now. You want to live in more than memory. Memory is only a thought. It is reflection. You can have the real thing now.

Why would you choose anything but today's meal made fresh for you? Would you really choose last week's stew or a meal from ten years ago?

Today is what is offered to you. You'd better take it. Hold out your hand and accept today as the gift it is. It is like no other gift. Even if you happen to think all days are the same, you are mistaken. You really know better. Today provides for you. It is your provision. Even yesterday is past. You can't catch a train that has passed. You can only catch the one that is coming now. Step onto the real train that is available to you today.

You may have had a lovely train ride in the past, but what good is it to you today? It left you long ago. Why would you hang on to that which has let go of you? Memories can be delightful, and yet so can today be. You may let today go past you only to pick it up later in reverie. Pick it up now while it is hot.

Sometimes the past seems more real to you than this minute right now. That can only be because you are paying more attention to the past. Whatever attention you pay to the past, it is misplaced. Why see yourself in a mirror of the past when there is a mirror right before you now?

What makes the past so precious to you? Soon enough today will be past. Make it precious while it is malleable before you now.

Is a faded bloom more precious than the flower you can pick now? Who says it is? You must say it is. Tomorrow's memory can be today's joy.

No matter how well-preserved the past is, it has been preserved. Fresh fruit is juicy. Do you really feel that dried fruit is worth more than fresh? Drink the fresh juice that today offers. Today is abundant. The past is sparse. An apple tree from the past does not give you fruit to pick today.

What is it, beloveds, that tends to make the past more precious to you than this minute right now? Cannot this very moment be precious as you live it?

What is it that the past offers you that you fear the present does not? Is a bird at hand not worth two in the past? Surely you don't consider Me absent from the present? Do you think life itself mellows more with age? Or that I do?

Beloveds, I am ageless. Life is not cheese that is better aged, nor is it wine better aged. Life is better fresh off the vine.

Source

Discern yourself. Use your heart...
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written by Panca Indera, August 06, 2008 10:01:44
وَإِذْ يَرْفَعُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ الْقَوَاعِدَ مِنَ الْبَيْتِ وَإِسْمَاعِيل

2.127] And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:
2:127) And remember that when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the walls of the House, they prayed, "Lord, accept this service from us; You are All-Hearing and All-Knowing.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=1320
http://www.tafheem.net/main.html

Both the University of Michigan(USA) and Maududi (Pakistani) translation of the Quran speaks about raising the foundation /wall of the HOUSE (ْبَيْتِ)

Now your Aidid speaks about raisinf the foundation from the system, refer below.
2:127 And when Abraham raised the foundation from the system (minal bayti) together with Ishmael, they said, “Our Lord please accept from us. Indeed it is You – Who hears - the knower.
TOJO, your brain (if you have one) is so full of shit, you can’t even translate correctly the word BAYT(house)

OK ! maybe God is speaking in coded language where House is “system”. Oklets try your word system and replace them whenever the word house is mentioned.

10.87] And We revealed to Musa and his brother, saying: Take for your people (SYSTEMS) houses to abide in Egypt and make your (SYSTEMS)houses places of worship and keep up prayer and give good news to the believers.
12.33] He said: My Lord! the prison (SYSTEM)house is dearer to me than that to which they invite me; and if Thou turn not away their device from me, I will yearn towards them and become (one) of the ignorant.
16.80] And Allah has given you a place to abide in your(SYSTEM) houses, and He has given you tents.of the skins of cattle which you find light to carry on the day of your march and on the day of your halting, and of their wool and their fur and their hair (He has given you)(SYSTEMWISE) household stuff and a provision for a time.

It just to show how dumb you are even your name de guerre Tōjō[1] (Kyūjitai: 東條 英機; Shinjitai: 東条 英機; Tōjō Hideki (help•info)) (December 30, 1884 – December 23, 194smilies/cool.gif was a General in the Imperial Japanese Army Tōjō was sentenced to death for war crimes by the International Military Tribunal of the Far East.
WAS A GENERAL NOT ADMIRAL!!!.....DAh……
And Guess who your Aidid was?
The leader of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) in the 1960s was AIDIT(sound very similar). So your Aidid is probably a communist and non believer too.

Find out what happen to Him, TOJO?
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:02:04
For Pancha No Indera,

Ka'bata (ankles) become God's house

All Arabs know an ankle is called ka'aba, but religionists went ahead to change the perception of the word Ka’aba (ankles or joints) to become a proper name for ‘God’s house’. The dissimulation has been achieved to accommodate their earlier premeditated distortion of the word Hurumun in 5:2. In 5:2 God had sanctioned wildlife conservation in His system of creation for people to obey.

The word Ka’aba is mentioned at three different places in the Reading and they are all grouped in surah 5. The title of this surah is Al Maaidah which means The Feast.

Before exploring the true meaning of the word ka’aba, we will have a brief overview of this surah.

There are 120 verses, and the subject of food is spread throughout (including the famous verse about the consumption of intoxicants). The general focus of the message in this surah is the three prophets who received God’s Scripture namely Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

•1-5 give the details of the sanctions on food. 6 reinforces the essence of 1-5, particularly on personal hygiene. 7-11 emphasise the significance of upholding God’s decrees.

•12-47 are related to the history of the Children of Israel who transgressed the laws given to Moses and Jesus.

•48-89 are about the message of the Reading as revealed to the Last Prophet, reminding the readers about the violation of God’s prescribed submission by the people of the previous Scripture.

•In 90-93, the subject is again food; also advice against intoxicants, gambling and dividing the meats by lots. 93 says that those who believe and lead a righteous life incur no sin by eating any food so long as they observe virtuousness, believe in God, and good moral conduct and continue to do good deeds.

•94-98 are an extension of verses 1 and 2 and regard wildlife conservation and the penalties imposed in respect of violations of hunting restrictions.

•99-100 take a slight diversion to inform us of the limited role of the Last Prophet. However, food is again mentioned in verse 103. Some of the names in this verse are beyond comprehension to many people – even to the Arabs. There are names like ‘Baheerah’ ‘Saa’ibah’ and ‘Waseelah’. They are not camels, goats or donkeys, which are common to the Arabs.

•Jesus is mentioned in 110-120. The disciples want reassurance and make a preposterous demand on Jesus asking that he ask his Lord to bring a feast from the sky as a sign of celebration. Their request is granted with the warning that they will be punished severely if they disbelieve thereafter.

This is the contextual essence of the surah. The subject is largely food. And this – inside the context of food – is the only chapter in the Reading where we find the word ka’aba. It is mentioned three times:

O you who believe, when you uphold your commitments you shall wash your faces, your arms to the elbows, wipe your heads, and wash your legs to the ankles (ka’baini). (5:6)

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:03:00
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The word ka’baini in this verse means ankles. The same word is used in 5:95 to mean the ankles of animals.

Yaaiyuhallazi na-amanu la-taqtalu soida wa-antum Hurumun waman qotalahu minkum muqota’amidan fajaza-un misluma qotala-minalna’ami yah-kumu bihi zawa’adli minkum hadyan balighor ka’bati aukafarotun tho’amu masakina au’adlu zaalika siyaman liyazuqo wabala amrihi ‘afal-lah ‘am-ma salafa waman ‘aada fayantaqimul-lah minhu wal-lahu ‘azizun zuntiqam. (5:95)

O you who believe, do not kill the wildlife which you are restricted (Hurumun). If anyone kills on purpose, he shall expatiate with an equivalent livestock to be judged by two equitable persons from among you to point out the maturity (hadyan balighor) of the ankles (ka’bati),. Or expiate by feeding the poor or discipline himself (until the animals are matured), so that he feels the consequences of his actions. God has pardoned his previous offences. Whoever reverts to his offence, God will avenge from him. God is almighty, avenger. (5:95)

The word before ka’bati in the verse is hadyan baligha that literally means to guide/lead or point out the maturity (in the determination of the maturity of the ankles).

The word hadyan comes from the root hada, which means to guide or to lead or to direct or to point out. This is simple and a common word found in many other verses in the Reading. Hada, Hadi, Huda, Hudan, Hadya and Hadyan has the same essence of meaning. I have already explained about this word in this chapter under ‘Guidance becomes animal offerings.

The word baligha comes from the root balagh, which means to mature, or to advance/achieve towards an objective.

For example in 4:6, if we take care of the child orphan we must test their maturity (balagh) as soon as they reach marriageable age before we hand over their rightful property to them. The word balagh (that means mature) in 4:6 is the same word used in 5:95 referring to the maturity of the ankles of the animal.

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:03:48
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You shall test the orphans when they reach maturity for marriage (balaghu nikaha). If you see rationality in them, you shall hand over their property. And do not consume their property excessively before they grow up (aiya’baru). (4:6)

In 4:6, the word balagh (which means mature) is further underlined by the word aiya’baru which means before they grow up. In other words, the orphans must be matured before we hand over their property to them.

The Reading says mankind’s advancement or maturity on the straight path is useless to some of them even after the great wisdom has reached them. The same root word is used:

They have received enough knowledge to set them straight, great wisdom, but their maturity (baligha-tun) seems to be useless. Therefore, leave them alone. (54:4-6)

Wildlife conservation, then, is an integral part of God’s creation. It is a decree that has to be observed by humans. In 5:95, the use of ka’bati is related to the violation of the restrictions and the penalty one has to pay if animals are killed on purpose during the restricted period. Hunting is only allowed when the maturity of the animals can be identified through their ankles’ stride. As for the birds the Reading says, nobody can kill them except God which implies that hunters will not be able to catch the birds except with God’s will.

Do you not notice the birds assigned to fly in the sky? Nobody can catch them except God. This should provide signs for those who believe (16:79).

In 5:2 people are advised not to violate God’s decree about hunting the wildlife during the period of restrictions.

O you who believe, do not violate God’s decrees (sha’iral-lah), and the restricted months (shahrul-Harama), and the guidance (hadya), and the indicators (qo-laa-ida) and the harmony of the restrictions in the system (bay-tal-Harama) when seeking the grace and pleasure of God. But when they are permitted (Halal-tum), you may hunt. Do not be provoked by the enmity of those who prevent you from observing the sanctioned submission (anil-mas-jidil-Harami) and do not aggress. Co-operate with each other in righteous deeds and piety, and do not co-operate with those committing sins and aggression. (5:2)

The message in 2 is repeated in 97 to emphasise the significance of the restrictions of hunting the wildlife. Once the ban is lifted, you may hunt.

The message in 5:95 is so easily understood. For example, when the restriction (Hurumun) on deer hunting is enforced, if someone kills a deer he must be fined to the tune of equivalent livestock. The offender shall be judged by two equitable people from among themselves to ensure the restriction is observed until the ban is lifted.

Hadyan baligha al ka’bati literally means point out the maturity of the ankle, which in turn means they must determine the maturity of the deer by its natural moving pattern through the strength of the ankles or by reference to its ankles.

Also, it is important that the fine be such that the person who violated the indicators of the hunting restrictions (qo-laa-ida) and knowingly killed the animal when he was restricted (Hurumun), be made to feel the consequences of his actions for killing the animal.

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:04:33
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Therefore, it is the duty of the equitable people (modern-day game wardens) to determine the maturity of the animal that was killed and levy a suitable fine equivalent value of mature livestock.

If a person kills a deer by mistake during the open season of wild fowls while being observant to God, then it is his duty to admit his mistake to the wildlife office and to allow them to judge him. If two equitable persons do not judge him then it is his duty to feed the poor voluntarily for an equivalent value in livestock or discipline himself from hunting until the animals are matured (if he truly believes in God).

The word ka’aba also appears in 5:97. The message is identical to 5:2:

God has set the ‘ankles’ (ka’bata) a system sanctioned (baytil-Harami) to be upheld for mankind, and the restricted months (shahrul Harama), and guidelines (hadya), and the indicators (qolaa-ida). This is to let you know that God, He knows everything in the heavens and the earth and what is beneath the earth. And surely God is fully aware of everything. (5:97)

Some critics who refuse to unchain the shackle of their minds insist the word ka’aba means the rock structure and Bayta as the house standing in Mecca might find the above verse illogical. They have overlooked the significance of the wildlife conservation – which is for the benefits of mankind - as being part of God’s decree in 22:36. The word al-budna (same root word used for Bedouins) in this verse means wildlife - a very important subject ignored by all translators.

Translators differ in their understanding, and some of them have erroneously said it means the camel. They have already confused themselves with the words Jamal, ibbil, ba’ir, rikab, heem, ‘shar as camel, but upon realising too many words became camel they make a slight change to the word dhomir in 22:27. This time they say ‘skinny camels’! It seems that each time the Arabs cannot understand God’s Arabic in the Reading they will tell translators and their scholars – ‘its a camel’. Thus, perhaps out of their ego or pre-conceived ideas, critics will insist a word can have many meanings not connected to each other - whilst the Arabs may insist many words can have one meaning. It is the Arabic dilemma of the Arab religion.

The word ka’aba in 5:95 and 5:97 is related to the ankles of wild animals, a topic which starts from 5:94. The word is mentioned again indicating that mankind must not hunt these animals until they are matured by distinguishing their ankles (the animals will not settle down in the same area once they are matured), this law is sanctioned in God’s system; observe the guidelines, and the indicators restricting the hunting during specific months. Experts identify the animals’ maturity by their strides or their moving pattern.

And the wildlife (wal-Budna) was set from God’s decree (sha’iril-lah), which is for your own good. Remember God’s name over it while you set sight of it and when it falls at a distance. Therefore eat and give away from it voluntarily to the people and to those who ask. That is what We created for you, so that you may be appreciative. (22:36)

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:05:13
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The crux of the subject is that wildlife must be protected and managed according to its lifecycle. People are not supposed to hunt wildlife during the restricted period particularly those who believe in the Unseen. If, for instance, they have violated the decree they must expiate their wrongdoings voluntarily as prescribed in 5:95. Game hunting is a test de facto for those who fear the unseen God.

O you who believe, God may put you to the test through game hunting within the reach of your hand and your means. God wants to distinguish those among you who fear the Unseen. Anyone who transgresses after this has deserved a painful retribution. (5:94)

Wildlife should be protected and should be allowed to live according to God’s system. Animals must not be killed unless they can survive on their own feet (ankles) characterising maturity. That is all.

The religionists concealed the message in the Reading regarding wildlife conservation and fooled the people to put on the togas that they call ihram. The people were made to believe the ankle of an animal is God’s house and they call a stone cube covered in a cloth with a small black stone embedded at one corner of it as baytul-lah (a word not found anywhere in the Reading). They have made 5:95 to read:

O you who believe, do not kill any game during pilgrimage. If anyone kills on purpose he shall expiate with equivalent livestock judged by two equitable people among you as offering to reach God’s house.

At the risk of repetition, I would like to state again that offering of animal sacrifices according to the Reading is evil. Attributing such religious rites to God is a great blasphemy. Somehow the enemies of God have successfully diverted mankind into committing this wicked act by manipulating God’s words in the Reading. I have to highlight the verse again to show the seriousness of this pagan primitive rite:

They even assign for God a share of the crops and livestock He has provided for them, saying, “This is for God,” according to their claims. And they also say, “This is for our idols.” However, what was assigned to their idols never reach God while that is assigned to God will ultimately end up to their idols. Evil indeed is their Judgement. (6:136)

Any kind of food assigned to God can never reach Him. Manipulating a simple sentence hadyan baligha al ka’bati arbitrarily in 9:95 has led millions of people to perform with diligence a detestable act of needlessly sacrificing thousands of livestock each year. This is exactly what is condemned in the above verse. God calls sacrificial offerings the deeds of the Devil. They are evil.

Each year about two million people slaughter livestock during their pilgrimage in Mecca as offering to God. The devotees of the Arab religion also do the same slaughtering all over the world on the same day. They call the day of Eid il Adha.

Livestock and wildlife are provisions from God. People should practice self-sacrifice by donating the meat as charity to other people – not sacrificing them as offering to God. He is in no need of animal meat or blood – but the act of virtuous deeds by the person who gives away part of the provisions He has provided for them. Those who have the privilege of eating the meat of wildlife – they too must donate part of the bounty to other people.

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 12:06:15
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For every nation We have set their own way of self-sacrifice to remember God’s name over the provisions from animals and livestock. Your God is the One God, therefore you must submit to Him and deliver the good news to the obedient whose hearts cringe upon remembering God. They remain steadfast in the face of adversity and they uphold their commitments and give to charity from My provisions to them. Wildlife was ordained as God’s decree that is good for you. Remember God’s name over it when you set sights at it - and when it falls at a distance. Thus, eat and give away from it voluntarily to people, and to those who ask. That is what We created them for you, so that you may be appreciative. The meat and the blood can never reach Him – but the observations (of the decrees) from you will reach Him……..’ (22:34-37)

Eat and give away God’s provisions to people – not to God. The act of giving away to people is our deeds. There is no standard rule of how much we should give away. We are exhorted to be charitable for own good and we decide the amount but not turn stingy. That is the act of self-sacrifice. God says He is rich, while we are poor. Most translations say for every religion they have their own way of animal sacrifices. That is the extend of the manipulation and we have seen in 6:136 - animal sacrificial is the work of the devil. People from different countries breed different kinds of livestock and it is their duty to commit themselves to be charitable towards doing good deeds both at the time of prosperity or hardship.

Today’s Saudi Arabia uses its oil wealth to build hotels, restaurants and shopping complexes to cater to the pilgrims’ needs. Fifty years ago, how could the pilgrims embark on their ‘pilgrimage’ without depending on wild game for food?

The religionists, however, realised this problem and they provided a simple solution. They say you may not hunt only in the immediate vicinity of the so-called ‘holy mosque’ that stands in Mecca.

Since the skyscrapers around their ‘holy mosque’ extend a few kilometres away from the mosque proper, game animals perhaps will not even be found in the middle of the desert some fifty–odd kilometres away. Whatever suggestion they offer, no potential pilgrim will make contingencies for a hunting trip when he pays homage to their god or gods in Mecca. This is only to show that - when the religionists try to distort the Reading, the message becomes illogical.

It is the caretakers of these idols who simply make it up as they go along.

Pancha No Indera, happy reading.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by Panca Indera, August 06, 2008 21:27:13
Dear CatV5
Ref : Panca, if i'm not mistaken the Arab worships Al-lat, Al-uzza and Manat (53:19-20). Allah name came from Muhammad's mouth IMHO. Or maybe the Arabs deliberately remove the 't' and replace it with 'h'. That's all i know.

For a start the wikipedia reference is closed enough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Pre-Islamic Arabia
In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[12] Allah was not the sole divinity and the notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion.[4] Allah had associates and companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of kinship existed between Allah and the jinn.[13] Allah had sons[14] and the local deities of al-ʿUzzā, Manāt and Allāt were his daughters.[15] The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah.[16][17] Allah was invoked in times of distress.[18][17] Muhammad's father name was ʿAbdallāh meaning the “servant of Allāh.”[1
Hope that’s satisfy your curiosity.

note: to TOJO: you still have not reply to my points about the true meaning of Words Bayt and Lord of the Worlds (SYSTEM AND LORD OF THE WELL INFORMED(maybe LORD of the Ring?).YOU LOST! BOYO , six pages of wasted cut and paste which did not answer my points.
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:45:43
For the benefit of Pancha No Indera,

Abraham did not know anything about Mecca

It is easy to prove false the claim of the religionists that Abraham was given the responsibility of building a house for God in Mecca. Firstly, there are many verses in the Reading to show Abraham and Ishmael had never been to Mecca (see chapter twelve). Secondly, if the house were the focal point for mankind as a place to serve God, then all the prophets subsequent to Abraham failed to fulfil their obligation to go there. Lastly – and most crushing of all – is the fact that the Supreme God does not need a house. The idea is ridiculous.

By definition, a house is a place where people live. However, the idea of God’s house came from the religionists after they had manipulated the following passage. According to them the meaning of the verse is:

We then designated the house for mankind as the place of assembly and security. Use the station of Abraham as a place of ritual prayer. We gave instructions to Abraham to clean My house with Ishmael for the people who encircle it, retreat in it and for those who bow and prostrate physically to it. (2:125)

We now need to break the verse down into parts and to show how it was manipulated to give validity to a tribal system of idolatry.

Firstly the religionists would have it that:

God showed Abraham the house.

In order to utilise this statement for their own purposes, the Arabs either built this house (or utilised an existing pagan temple, of which there were many) to complete the illusion. This they made the centre for their re-vamped religion.

Having twisted the meaning of the word bayta, they then insisted that the word masha-batan as ‘a place of assembly’. Masha-batan literally means 'providence' an alien word to Arabs or their scholars. In the Reading ‘assemble’ or ‘assembly’ is derived from the root H SH R or Hashar. The root generates other verbs yah-sha-ru, uh-shur, hus-shira, yuh-sharu, hasher, or mah-shu-rotan and never as masha-batan. For meetings the Reading uses the word maja-lisi also not as masha-batan.

After giving a wrong notion to the word masha-batan they then manipulate the words maqaam and muSollan (which, in fact, indicate Abraham’s status and his commitments) to mean:

Use the station of Abraham as a place of ritual prayer.

To add credence to this assertion they carved a pair of footprints from a copper block and displayed it in front of the square stone idol. This, we are told, represents the station of Abraham. These footprints are taken as signifying a place of assembly for the performance of the ritual prayer. This level of idiocy and illusion is not even worthy of a bad Hollywood film.

Next:

For mankind to encircle, to devote to it, and to bow and prostrate to it.

So the people follow: they bow, prostrate, and encircle the stone box. Their rituals do not help them see God because the huge door to ‘His house’ remains closed. The religionists call the square stone house baytul-lah or ‘God’s house’.

It is perplexing to note that it has a door that the occupant never opens or closes. If the case is that God does not use doors, then why is there one? This can either mean He has never left His house, or it could mean He is not there. But let’s suppose the premise were true for a moment: God lives in a glorified porta-cabin. Shouldn’t the bounds of decency dictate that a house of God should be built for every mosque in the world, preferably from imported Arabian rock?

This is how the religionists fooled the people into worshipping idols made of rocks, granite, wood, copper, brass, black cloth and Arabic calligraphy. They teach the people to cry loudly, ‘O God here I come, O God here I come’ as though God were hard of hearing, focusing their full devotion to the idol resembling a house in the centre of their mosque. God has already told us that He hears what is in our hearts. These are nothing more than comical pagan rituals. The impact of manipulating one verse has distorted the whole concept of serving the One God as dictated in the Reading.


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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:46:25
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:47:38
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Somehow, millions feel a great exhilaration at performing this procedure. Yet, there are also thousands who do ask themselves privately ‘Why are we doing all this’? Yet they dare not abandon this practice. They will find that the answer to that question will elude them for as long as they put their trust in the religionists instead of God.

When we read the passage from 2:125 according to the intended message it says:

And when We designated the system as providence (bayta-masha-batan) for mankind and security. Take (learn) from the status (maqam) of Abraham who was committed(mu-Sol-lan). We contracted Abraham and Ishmael to cleanse My system (bayti-ya), for throngs of people (thor-iffin), those who are devoted (a’kiffin) to it, and those who humble themselves in submission (wa-ruku’is-sujud).

The disillusioned religionists changed the meaning of eight words from this one verse alone to denigrate Abraham – the chosen man – who was supposed to lead all the people on earth to God’s system. Translators are forced to accede to the erroneous application of these words although just two verses – 2:125 and 22:26 – form the entire supposed Qur’anic basis for this whole category of manipulated lunacy. The net result from the distortion is that millions of people believe that Mecca is the centre for the Islamic world:

•The ‘system’ (bayta) is centred around a square shaped stone made from the mountain rocks standing in the centre of a mosque in Mecca, similar to stone idols erected in many of the temples around the world.

•The ‘providence’ (masha-batan) became a place of assembly. So the people from all over the world assemble in Mecca.

•The ‘status of Abraham’ (maqami-ibrohim) is a smaller idol in the form of a pair of footprints in a copper block mounted in a cage some ten metres from the door of the stone cube.

•The ‘committed man’ (muSollan) is a place of worship. The stone idol is the focus.

•The ‘throngs of people’ (Tho-iffin) is the religious rite of walking around the stone idol seven times in an anti-clockwise direction.

•To ‘devote to’ (a’kiffin) means visit and pay homage to the stone cube.

•To ‘humble in submission’ (roka’is-sujud) is a series of choreographed movements of bowing and prostrating to the stone cube.

The religionists say that according to 2:125, God showed Abraham the house. They then advance two verses ahead to say Abraham and Ishmael built the house of God. Nobody notices this simple fraud. The question that begs to be answered is: how did God show a house to Abraham in 2:125 and ordered him to cleanse it and then, later (in 2:127), make him raise the foundation of the said house? With this level of gullibility being requisite for membership of the Arab idolatry club, is it any wonder the ‘Muslims’ are in such a poor state in the world?

This is, of course, yet more Arab trickery. In fact, 2:127 means: Abraham elevated the foundation from the system, but the religionists twisted it to mean Abraham raised the foundation of the house!

They have eliminated the word min al (‘from the’) appended to the word bayti completely, which changes the whole context of the passage. To illustrate, we will break 2:127 down to its component parts:

wa-izand when
yarfa-’u established
IbrohimulAbraham
qo-wa’idathe foundation
minal-bayti from the system
wa-ismail with Ishmael

Literally, it says: ‘And when Abraham established the foundations from the system with Ishmael’. This is more consistent with the context when the subject is read from 2:124. Even if the religionists insist that the word bayti means ‘the house’, Abraham could not be raising the foundation of a house which was already there. The word minal simply means from the. When it is prefixed to the word bayti it means from the bayti which means from the system.

A ‘system’ is a way of working, organising or doing something in which you follow a fixed plan or a set of rules. For example, if a situation or activity has a system, it has a sense of orderliness or good organisation. People sometimes.....

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:49:20
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talk about a system to refer to the government or administration of a state. When they think that it is too strong and has too many rules and regulations they oppose the system. Those who observe or uphold the system are committed to live in an orderly way within the prescribed rules of the system.

In other words, they live ‘by the system’ or in Arabic ‘inda bayti’ which is exactly what Abraham utters in 14:37.

The religionists somehow wanted us to believe that the word inda bayti-ka means near Your house. To follow this reading to its logical conclusion, all the people of the world should live near God’s house. Just try to group the entire Arab race from Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, United Arab Emirates and Saudi together in one place for one week and see what happens! If one were to add the Shiite population, the fireworks would really start to fly. There would be no need for the Americans to invade any more Arab soil – they could just walk in and take it because there would be no one left alive to oppose them!

The religionists are ignorant of what God says about the settlement of human beings on the earth:

O My servants who believed! My earth is spacious. Therefore, serve Me alone. (29:56)

When read as one subject, 2:124-127 give the meaning that Abraham and his son Ishmael were committed to God’s system. Both of them established the foundation of their commitments from a System - not from a house made of rocks in Mecca or anywhere else. As a matter of fact, neither the father nor son had any knowledge about a square stone structure attributed to God. It is just a figment of the primitive Arabs’ wild imagination. The message conveyed by these verses is, in fact, that Abraham and Ishmael were the first to establish the foundation from God’s system.

Let us see how the Reading uses the word Bayta to refer to it as the providence in His system for mankind. In some cases, the system works according to what we do with our work.


Bayta is a system not a house

•The religionists say bayta means a house. According to the Reading bayta in 2:125 means a system and the indefinite noun is baytin which is found in 3:96.

•The words bay-yaa-ta and bay-yee-tu are used in 4:81 to inform us about a system being the norms of the enemies of all prophets to change whatever was said to them and God had systematically recorded (yak-tubu-maa-yu-bay-yee-tun) whatever they have invented. This is consistent with the information in verse 6:112 when it says: "And we made for every prophet enemies from among the human devils and jinn devils, who invent and narrate to each other with fancy words in order to deceive". Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their inventions.

•In 7:4 and 7:97, the same word pronounced as bayaa-tan to mean: mankind will suffer from natural disasters by their own wrongdoings as a system. But translators said bay-yaa-ta, bay-yee-tu and bayaa-tan means during the night. It is obvious from the Reading that many communities went through disasters at any time of the day. Besides, the Reading uses Layl to refer to night and this word is not found in any of these verses.

•A house is called buyut, which is found in 2:189 and the indefinite noun is buyutan, which is found in 24:29. The addition of the dual ending -an shows that the word relates to two.

•In 2:189 the phrase buyu-ta min-thu-huri-ha is used to indicate a house to express do not enter the house from the back door which is an Arabic proverb equivalent to the English do not beat around the bush. The suffix ha after the word thu-huri signifies the singular form of the house representing the feminine gender in nature.

•In 24:29 the word buyu-tan is a plural indefinite noun mean houses. ‘You commit no error by entering uninhabited houses wherein there is something that belongs to you. God knows what you declare and what you concealed’.

•In 24:61 the word buyuti is mentioned ten times in a command spoken to many people to refer to their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers’ brothers, fathers’ sisters, mothers’ brothers, mothers’ sisters and friends. Each of them dwells only in one house at a time. The word buyuti refers to the house each of them owns.

The religionists claimed the word bayti-ya means My house and then wasted no time in naming a square block which they built in Mecca as baytul-lah, or God’s house. According to the Reading bayti-ya in fact means My system.

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:51:06
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Bayta according to the Reading

Every one of us initially follows our own system or bayta. By God’s will, He will remove us from our system with the truth to His system or bayta once we deserve a higher rank upon receiving His mercy and forgiveness, and also a good provision from Him. This is clearly stated in 8:5.

The verse breaks down like this:

kamathe way
aqrojakaremove you
rob-bukayour Lord
min-bayti-kafrom your system
bil-Haqwith the truth

Your Lord removed you (or brought you forth) from your bayti-ka (or your system), with the truth. (8:5)

For all intent and purpose, when we read the full text of the passage, we see why bayti-ka means your system instead of your house.

Indeed the believers are those whose hearts cringe upon remembering God. And when the revelation is recited to them it increases their belief. They are observant towards God. They uphold their commitments and from Our provisions to them they give away to charity. They are the true believers and they deserve higher ranks, forgiveness, and also good provisions from their Lord, the way Your Lord removed you from your system (minal bayti-ka) with the truth. Indeed, there are those among the believers who are reluctant, and they will oppose you even after the truth has become evident to them as if they were driven to a certain death. (8:2-6)

We are told that the Prophet was removed from his system after the truth was revealed to him. Are we to imagine that God removed the Prophet from his physical house to another house after the truth was manifested to him? Or are we saying the prophet moved out from his house to God's house?

Similarly, the deserving believers may also be removed from their previous system with the truth. They will live by the sanctions in God's system or the inda baytul-muHarami in fulfilling the wishes of Abraham. (This will be explained later.)

The logic is that God is able to move a person from one system to another while that person uses his or her house as a base to study God’s revelations and wisdom.

They continue to obey God and His messenger and uphold their commitments and be charitable. The following verse was addressed to the Prophet’s wives:

You shall use your house (buyuti-kun) as your base. Do not behave like the ignorant among the earlier people. And uphold your commitments and keep them pure and obey God and His messenger. God wishes to remove from you the impurity of the people of the system (ahl-la-bayti) and to cleanse you thoroughly. You shall remember what is recited in your house (buyuti-kun) from God’s revelations and wisdom. Surely God is compassionate and cognisant. (33:33-34).

In 33:33 it says:

yuridul-lah li-yuzhiba ‘ankumul rijsa ahl-lal-bayti wa-yu-tho-hiro-kum tadh-hiro.

God wishes to remove from you the impurity of the people of the system and to cleanse you thoroughly.

The Prophet’s wives were initially native-born to the ignorant and unclean people of the system or ahl-la-bayti. God’s wishes to remove the impurity of the ahl-la-bayti from them and asks them to use their houses as their base. They are told to obey God and the Messenger and to remember what is recited from God’s revelations and its wisdom, and uphold their commitments so that God can.......

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:52:36
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.....cleanse them thoroughly. They had to stop the permissiveness of the ignorant ahl-la-bayti. For more than a thousand years, most Arabs have believed it an honour to be associated with the ahl-la-bayti. The Reading declares the opposite. They say ‘ahl-la-bayta’ refers to the ‘members of the house of God’. But it is written in 28:12 that the family of Pharaoh belonged to the ahl-la-bayti and we all know Pharaoh was a tyrant.

The word system (bayti) and house (buyu-ti) are both mentioned in 33:33-34. It is misleading to say that God wishes to cleanse the Prophet’s wives from the impurity of the people of the house (ahl-la-bayti), cleanse them thoroughly, and later use the houses (buyuti) as the base to obey God and His messenger.

The religionists say Bayta is singular and Buyuta is the plural. The misunderstanding is explained by the Reading in 29:41. This verse uses a clear term of aw-hana-buyuti to denote the singular.

The example of those who take (ta-qor-zu) protectors from other than Allah is like the example of the spider that took a system (ankabuti-it-ta-qor-zat-baytan). And surely the ‘most fragile house’ (aw-hana-buyuti) is of the spider’s system (la-Baytul-ankabut), if they knew. (29:41)

The Reading uses the word ‘ta-qor-zu’ to signify the people ‘take’ other gods besides the one God as a system in their way of life. When the same word is used as ankabuti-it-ta-qor-zat-baytan it means the spider ‘took’ a system. It follows with aw-hana-buyuti which clearly denotes the ‘most fragile house’ to describe a single type of ‘house’ not ‘houses’. The word 'most' can only mean, 'among the many there is only one unique type'. The word la-Baytul-angkabut after aw-hana-buyuti reflects the earlier statement of angkabuti-it-ta-qor-zat-baytan. It is wrong to assume the word ta-qor-zat as to build. In the Reading ‘banu’ is used to refer as ‘build’, a derivative from the root ‘bani’. This word is not found in 29:41. Therefore Buyuta is not a plural of Bayta.

Bayti-ya in the Reading

This word appears in the Reading three times, in 2:125 and 22:26 (which refers to God’s system) and in 71:28. In 71:28 it refers to Noah’s way of life, a system different from his folks.

In the scriptural account of the prophet Noah, everything was totally destroyed when God sent down the Great Flood. The rising waters eventually drowned even a young man, who Noah thought was his son, who had refused to believe when he had decided to escape the flood by climbing up a hill. In 71:26 Noah says:

“Lord do not leave on earth a single disbeliever.”

Once Noah was saved, God destroyed everything in his area: all the people in his community including the livestock and their properties.

Most of the Jews, Christians and Muslims are familiar with the story of Noah. Noah lost his house during the flood. Everyone lost their houses during the flood. When on the ark, he implored God:

My Lord forgive me and my parents and anyone who enters my system (bayti-ya) as a believer and all the believing men and believing women. And do not increase the wicked except to destroy. (71:2smilies/cool.gif

Clearly, Noah was not referring to his physical house, but to the system (bayti-ya) to which God had guided him. There were no houses left because everything had been destroyed. Noah was afloat on the ark when he made this request to God.

Noah asked God to forgive those who were with him in his system – or his bayti-ya – those who believed in God and not those who entered his home. There is no indication in the Reading that God can forgive a person just by entering a physical house belonging to a prophet of God.

In the Reading al-bayta means the system and bayti-ya means my system. Every one of us knows the unseen God does not live in a physical house and He does not need a house to live in.

The Arabs in Palestine changed the name of the old city of Jerusalem to Baytul-mu-qadis very recently. When they used the word baytul for Jerusalem they did not say the meaning here was house but city: baytul-muqadis meaning the Sacred City. The word muqadis is derived from the root qudus, which means sacred. The prefix mu before the root indicates a state of being.

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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:54:00
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There are also prefixes appended to the word bayta in the Reading signifying the state of the verb:

baytul-ateeqin 22:29 (the original
system)

baytal-Harami in 5:2 and 5:97 (the system sanctioned)

baytika-muHaramiin 14:37 (the sanctions in the system to be observed by Abraham’s progeny)

The religionists say all these words refer to house. This is for no other reason than to justify their invented Arab religion and to make their followers focus their worship on their stone.

Those who read the Qur’an to understand it have been instructed:

•Rule number one: Ignorance can buy you a ticket to Hell.

We have assigned for Hell multitudes from the jinn and humans, for them hearts that do not understand, and for them eyes that do not see, and for them ears that do not hear. (7:179)

•Rule number two: Ignorance is not bliss.

Surely the worst creatures by God are the deaf, the dumb without common sense. (8:22)

•Rule number three: Do not be dogmatic. Verify
your facts.

Do not accept whatever of which you do not have any knowledge. You are given the hearing, the eyes and the brains. (17:36)

•Rule number four:The foolish do not think.

And it will not be for anyone to believe except by the will of God. God has assigned filth upon those without common sense. (10:100)

Those who have read the Qur’an should know the prime commandment in the Reading:

‘You shall not associate anything with God’.

A house is a building in which people live, usually people belonging to one family. To associate a man-made rock structure like the cubical stone house which the religionists call Ka’aba in Mecca with the Almighty God inflicts violence against our reason and our common sense.

The followers of the Arab religion should ask why they associate a stone cube with God. To grasp the essence of God’s Scripture we need only a normal dose of common sense. This will lead us to the conclusion that the religionists have fabricated a convenient lie for their own cultural and material ‘well-being’. They say it is God’s house, but in the same breath, they also say God does not reside in that house. The next time you meet an Arab priest, ask him exactly what it is they want us to understand about God’s house here on earth. Ultimately, they intend us to think that it is God’s house but that He does not live there.

However, having built the house, they would have it that the structure is sacred. Ask the religionists:

•At what point did the rocks from the mountains become sacred?

•If they were sacred before they were taken from the mountains, did the Arabs not defile the mountains by taking them?

•If neither of these points results in a clear conclusion, what exactly are they trying to say?

In truth, the religionists have no answers to these questions. Their grand plan was – and still is – to conspire against Islam and to destroy the peacefulness of a way of life revealed by God to the Last Prophet. First, they put up the idols. Then they got the gullible to believe in them. Next, they– corrupted the common people’s understanding of God’s words in the Scripture to justify the conspiracy. Then they set themselves up as the keepers of the faith and language. The religionists have also misrepresented and misstated the words baytil-Harami and baytul-muHarami. They say that the words mean ‘sacred house’. The next time you meet an Arab priest ask him since when the word prohibited or restricted (Haram) began to mean sacred? Along the same lines, what has happened to the word baytul-muqadis? Does not Jerusalem mean ‘sacred house’ because they say bayta is a house and qudus is sacred? The retort will probably be in the negative. Since it is not in Arabia, it does not mean the same thing.

contd>>>>
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 06, 2008 22:58:04
contd>>>

No Arab is willing to clarify any of these points, even the most qualified priest of the Arab religion. Since none is forthcoming, let us just use a higher authority, the Reading.

So, I hope by now you will already know what the meaning of 'Those who are well informed' means, Pancha No Indera.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 07, 2008 01:18:57
Pancha No Indera,
you obviously did not read this or it is a case of have eyes that cannot see?

You wrote
>>>>Now Read this!
005.097
YUSUFALI: Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House….
PICKTHAL: Allah hath appointed the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, …..
SHAKIR: Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, …..
(5:97) Allah has appointed the Ka'bah, the Sacred House,…..
جَعَلَ اللَّهُ الْكَعْبَةَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ is spelt different and pronounced as ka”batal-baytal translated as Kaabah the sacred house.
Why would Muhammad(PBUH) made up the Quran and name the Scared House “Ankles” and asked the people to wash up to their ankles?
So as far as the word Kaabah in 5:97 implys, the name of the Sacred House is Kaabah. If you want to called it the Ankle House, its up to you!>>>

I wrote,

The word ka’aba also appears in 5:97. The message is identical to 5:2:

God has set the ‘ankles’ (ka’bata) a system sanctioned (baytil-Harami) to be upheld for mankind, and the restricted months (shahrul Harama), and guidelines (hadya), and the indicators (qolaa-ida). This is to let you know that God, He knows everything in the heavens and the earth and what is beneath the earth. And surely God is fully aware of everything. (5:97)

Now do you see? It was in front of you. Shackled I think.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 07, 2008 01:22:53
Wow, Pancha No Indera wants to cut off my head. Does it not sound familiar? Be careful people, the likes of Pancha No Indera, or his type, could be your neighbour. I think they can be easily identified though. I will put you on my terrorist watch list on Pancha No Indera.

Shalom/Salaam
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written by Fart Fart Wah, August 07, 2008 01:42:50
Some people comment as though they had been sitting and eating with the prophet

As far as I know no one can actually prove that he saw the Angel Gabriel who supposedly ordered him to write the Koran...which is remarkably close to the Torah and the Bible...

my conclusion ..either the Angel Gabriel read the Bible and the Torah or Muhammad did.

So no one having seen him see the Angel it is for you and me to believe it ...
Unless according to Islam there are 4 witnesses who saw what he saw I think this thing about an Angel is also ..depends on faith ..what Muhammad wants us th believe..So without the 4 star witnessess ( ehemm pardon me who did not see Anwar gasaking Saiful) then the act never happened..period.

Through the years like every religion it got built, mixed with racial adherence, tribal fanaticism, and for political expediencey..the last of which I think is the real reason...(( eehem ...as you can see UMNO Lebih dirajah Maharajah lela insists on all Malays stick to Islam for this( Malays is Islam and Islam is Malay) ..although Muhammad himself states no one can be forced to believe)..
So politics prostituted Islam and Islam has now prostituted politics in Malaysia ...by UMNO LEBIH di raja maharajalela...( that even PAS spits on it)
and right minded Malays are bashful of what is going on. ( it isthe same with Islam being a prostitute for politics in all Islamic countries..it is being used to control the so called UMMAH..the poor UMMAH. You become an apostate..the Allah of UMNO states you are going to HELL , and so we have many Allahs declaring so many Fatwas on this and that..confusing the UMMah.

and so I will not be surprised if some UMNO LEBIH DI RAJAH MAHARARAJAH LELA
goon or idiot..will one day change the history books like they did to ensure KETUANAN MELAYU UMNO ( eg KL was founded by a Malay) this goon LIke Syed Albar might say ..The Arabs were wrong...Actually Muahammad was a Malay..
He was in Gua Musang..Malay history says it...He met the Angel in Gua Musang but for some mysterious reason he was plucked by his hair and brought to Arabia to convert the Arab barbarians first..eh eh..we Malays were not barbarians actually..(is syed lbar a mamak or a malay?...ah another mystery for the the Angel)

And so we have a bunch or arsetriches(sorry was it ostriches??) burying their head in the sand claiming Allah is a MUSLIM..I did not know he has a religion..gee..now which one?? is he the Allah for the Sunni or Shite or the Al queda??? SSSshh..and so ALLAH SUNNI today is bombing ALLAH SHITE and Allah Alqueda seems to like BOMBING TOWERS..
and THE ALLAH IN PAKISTAN is encouraging rape of christians women and converts..gee shhssh..Allah is confused or we have confused Allah..and I am totally confused...

And to these ostrich who plant their head in the sand I say..the word Allah ( (Will the REAl ALLAH PLEASE STAND UP) WAS USED even before Muhammad seemingly saw the Angel..produced the Koran way WAY WAY back even before he was born...so how can Allah ( I mean the real Allah) belong to Muslims or even Allah be a Muslim???????

But the beauty and greatness of Allah the Almighty.is..even in this seemingly negative perception of mine...He has brought forth good model muslims..muslims who understand what it means to love their neighbour.as we loves all..yeh there is a God ..be it Allah or whatever..there is a God..but UMNO"s ALLah???..I dunno. UMNO LEBIH DI RAJAH MAHARAJALELA..BE DAMMNED!!!!
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written by CatV5, August 07, 2008 10:54:20
Here's one to ponder about beliefs

Do Not Believe So Much in Your Beliefs
Heavenletter # 370 Published on: October 30, 2001
God said:

When you say that something should be one way or another, you are imposing. Should is a judgment that allows no argument. Where does should come from? It comes from past beliefs. Beliefs are opinions, usually strong opinions. Because you believe doesn't make it so. Your belief has nothing to do with it. Sometimes your belief in your beliefs is like the story of cutting the feet to fit the bed.

You can believe in something all you want, but that does not make it so. I exist, but I do not exist because you believe in Me. I exist because I exist.

The world thought the earth was flat, but that belief did not change the curvature of earth.

Do not try to make the world match your beliefs. That is an attempt at ultimate control.

A belief imposed is a judgment. A judgment is an altercation. It is a denial. It tries to erase what has already transpired. Trying to erase says it was a mistake. It may not have been to your liking, but you do not know enough of life to say it was a mistake.

Some so-called mistakes have been great blessings. Much good can come from what you call mistakes. Is every try that doesn't accomplish what you think it ought — is it not a step?

Be wary of your strong opinions. Why must an opinion be strong? Why must it be a conviction or a long-held belief? Why must your thoughts be like gavels that come down hard?

Why must your toast always be buttered?

Why must all your beliefs be so? What is at stake, do you imagine?

Beliefs come from the past. Beliefs are a holding on from the past. Beliefs are not inviolate. They are not a one-thing only.

Openness comes from the present.

Let in what comes in today. You do not have to buy it all, but you can consider. When you go into a marketplace, you do not condemn the items you don't want to buy. You buy those that make sense to you.

But let Me tell you this: There is no belief you need. Beliefs are not what you need.

Awareness is what you need. Awareness is what I give to you. I do not give you beliefs. If something is true, it doesn't need belief in it. If something is not true, all the belief in the world doesn't make it true. Beliefs are commonly-held world thoughts. Beliefs may not be dependable.

But Truth can be relied on. Truth opens itself. It is not a closed book. Truth, unlike beliefs, does not go only so far. Truth goes to the ends of the earth. What is true is true everywhere.

Do not mix up facts with true. What you call facts are pieces. Truth is always whole.

Beliefs are names for certain ideas, just as you name a certain range of time as yesterday or Wednesday. It is a name. It is not inviolable. In another country, the same frame of reference has another name. But those names serve a universal purpose. No one believes that the name made the fragment of illusory time.

Concepts hardened become beliefs. Do not believe so much in beliefs.

Bringing others to your beliefs — what does that accomplish? Does that confirm you are right? Another person's opinion bolsters yours?

Jesus did not look for bolstering. And he did not try to make people believe. He tried to reveal. He said, "Here God is." He said, "Come out of the darkness, and see what is right before you."

Once you see, you have seen. What you have seen cannot be upturned. Maybe you do not see it today, but you did see it. Can you pretend you did not? And yet you have done that. You have pretended away and submerged your own vision.

Even to see truth and the beauty of truth may seem like a revolution. But truth is not unheard-of. It has been heard of, and it has been seen. You have seen it.

Look for awareness, and not hardened beliefs.
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written by RickK, August 07, 2008 13:47:48
To Syamsul Siaahan
Peace to you.Haven't seen you on this site for a while.Have been pondering my answer to your last question to me.I thought this piece by bakas,a very even-handed Muslim reader,the best answer:
written by bakas, August 05, 2008 | 03:21:13
Dear Barean,

You wrote:

It is clear from the above major discrepancies that the revelations in the Quran and in those in the Bible are very very different. This why I challenge Christians whenever they call on the name of Allah. These so called Christians believe that Allah is synonymous with the God of the Bible.

RPK may not agree, but Allah is the specific name of the Islamic God. After all, "there is no ILAH but ALLAH". Allah is not a generic name as many falsely believe. The use of the word Allah in the Christian circles is the result of Catholic lies!! It is official Vatican doctrine that Allah is Jehovah, in short, they believe the God of Islam is the God of the Bible. Even many foolish Protestants (a group who were enemies of the Catholics for hundreds of years) believe this. Nothing infact can be further from the truth.


First, let me show you what Wikipedia has for the definition of the name Allah:

Allah is the standard Arabic word for "God".[1] While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God". The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.

The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) differ among the traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters, a concept strongly opposed by Islam. In Islam, Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to the one God. Allah is unique, the only God, transcendent creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today, having no other word for 'God' than Allah, use terms such as Allāh "God the Father". There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.

The term Allāh is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- and ʾilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God"

Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'. Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ab (الله الآب) meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al qudus (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit.


The Vatican (this is referring to the Catholic Church of course) has never used this. You are absolutely correct. But note, the Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews. But you were wrong when you say it is a lie concocted by the Christian Catholics. True, it was not taught in the doctrine, but the language to describe God in Arabic is Allah. So, pray tell me how do the Arabic Christians call God? You bet it is Allah.

The name Jehovah is the name used by the Jews to describe God. The word Jehovah is derived from the word YHWH. Traditionally, observant Jews do not say this name aloud. It is believed to be too sacred to be uttered and is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name.


So, you see, the word Allah or Ilahi does not belong to the Muslims alone. I would be ashamed of my brothers and sisters in Islam if they should think otherwise. It shows a clear disrespect towards the Christians and the Jews when this kind of misunderstanding still exist and nobody takes steps to really understand it. I have spoken about this issue a few times with another Muslim brother in one of RPK's thread, but it seems like we are still well short of understanding the Allah issue.

Well, what would you say to that? Again, I make my stand, that I would not like to see my God being placed as an exclusive 'trophy' or 'owned' by my faith alone. And the people in the government have the cheek to use this issue to 'pancing-pancing' your undi and your support. For goodness sake, God created all languages and if Allah means God and understood by all those who profess the religion, so be it. Who are we to claim this exclusivity for God?

To which I add: if you claim exclusivity to this name, you would be (interestingly) agreeing with some Christians who would prefer disassociation with the name which you feel should be the right of Muslims alone to use in worship.

Peace to Bakas,Tojo PI and all who read this site.
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written by Aizad 234, August 07, 2008 20:27:38
Suddenly i remember a dialogue from a movie that is 'Nacho Libre' .. the dialogue was .." I dont believe in God, i believe in science " ..nothing funny bout it but the way the character said it, made it sound funny.

Without God,there will be no Science.
Without Science, there is always GOD.
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written by Panca Indera, August 07, 2008 20:44:30
General TOJO!
Your six pages does not mean a thing. Why?
You and Aidid try to twist the words around to suit your arguments. House become system, Ka’abah becomes ankles and so on and so on. Do you not understand, in the Quran, God said in plain simple language why and how the message is being conveyed in A..R..A..B..I..C….PLAIN ARABIC!!
Not mandarin, nor hindi, nor bahasa, nor English, nor german. Why?
Now you are trying to convince others that your version/translation is the only correct one while all the rest over the millennium are wrong.
WTF is wrong with your brain?
1. [12.2] Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.
2.[26.195] In plain Arabic language.
3.[39.28] An Arabic Quran without any crookedness, that they may guard (against evil).
4.[41.3] A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know:
5.[16.103] And certainly We know that they say: Only a mortal teaches him. The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue.
6.[41.44] And if We had made it a Quran in a foreign tongue, they would certainly have said: Why have not its communications been made clear? What! a foreign (tongue) and an Arabian! Say: It is to those who believe a guidance and a healing; and (as for) those who do not believe, there is a heaviness in their ears and it is obscure to them; these shall be called to from a far-off place.
7. [13.37] And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector.
8.[20.113] And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran,
9.[43.3] Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand.
10. [46.12] And before it the Book of Musa was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good.
11.You arguing with a brainless twit who cannot comprehend the Original Arabic language and giving all sorts of explanation to the words when the words themselves are clear in meaning.
Really! TOJO do you sincerely believe that ALLAH send down the Quran in plain Arabic language so that we can get our knickers twisted in order to understand the REAL meaning of simple words that explain.
What about when the prophet himself did the Haj Ritual and offer sacrifices, that He was not following the system for the Well informed? smilies/tongue.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif
note: You are so gullible, Do really believe that I want to cut off your head?
LOL
I going on leave, like the good Doctor, Don't call me, I will call you ok.
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written by bakas, August 08, 2008 02:21:01
Cafv5, you said:


Beliefs come from the past. Beliefs are a holding on from the past. Beliefs are not inviolate. They are not a one-thing only.

Openness comes from the present.

Let in what comes in today. You do not have to buy it all, but you can consider. When you go into a marketplace, you do not condemn the items you don't want to buy. You buy those that make sense to you.

But let Me tell you this: There is no belief you need. Beliefs are not what you need.



I believe this is what we, modern people call relativism, where people can choose to believe whatever they want to believe. Now, this is a dangerous line to walk on, because one can never know how far they can go. What used to be wrong before becomes right after a few hundred years. Taking cue from the fact that truth also doesn’t change and are timeless; one must always remember that faith and principles are two different things. One can hold a principle as a system to for us to follow; hence it can change from one place or country to another, depending on culture and customs. Faith meanwhile is much more. Principles can be derived from faith as the purpose of faith is to be a testament of hope for the unseen. Faith will be based upon the foundation that there is something better waiting afterwards. You don’t have faith in the things you can see, but in things that you cannot see, fully known and predict. Because faith is about looking forward to eternal goodness, it will and must be based on goodness. Because faith is also based on the truth, it should remain constant and unchanged even though the world may change in 1000 years or so.



Awareness is what you need. Awareness is what I give to you. I do not give you beliefs. If something is true, it doesn't need belief in it. If something is not true, all the belief in the world doesn't make it true. Beliefs are commonly held world thoughts. Beliefs may not be dependable.



Now this I agree, as truth needs proper discernment. One must have the awareness to question the beliefs, rituals and traditions if it goes against the truth in the faith. Simply following without understanding is equal to being a blind man being led without knowing where we are going. This is why we have people blindingly following the rituals and made it more important than the reason behind the rituals, without ever knowing why. One must understand the faith in order to believe, not the other way around. Alas, too many people nowadays seemed comfortable doing the opposite.



Bringing others to your beliefs — what does that accomplish? Does that confirm you are right? Another person's opinion bolsters yours?


Oh, but this is a justification of faith! Faith puts the onus upon all of us to wish good upon all people. This practically means showing them what it means to know the truth, not by way of force, but by way of examples and humility of self. In turn, the truth itself will manifest, as it is with good fruits come from good trees. Truth does not need confirmation or support; it needs manifestations so that people might be able to see it. And when they are moved to learn and know, then everyone will be able to see the truth for what it is.

Having a proper dialogue about religion is not about imposing one’s belief. It is about harmonizing what seems to be different but contains element of truth, in order to be able to discern what is the truth. As such, it is by the end of it, a conscious choice for all whether to accept the truth presented or reject it. As they say, and I like to quote this “ Know the truth, and the truth will set you free”. How apt and true indeed!

Wasallam. smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

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written by Panca Indera, August 08, 2008 09:48:34
Beliefs without knowledge is ignorance
Beliefs without education is stupidity
Beliefs without humility is arrogance
Beliefs without history is clueless/un-informed.
Beliefs without conscience is immoral
Beliefs without sincerity is mischief
Beliefs without guidance is astray
Beliefs without judgment is miscalculation
Beliefs with God is Faithless

Most people does not understand the meaning of Anger.
Read below for better understanding
GOD has created a power in man's instinct which is called 'anger'. Anger also exists, more or less and in varying forms, in animals. Its function is to safeguard the right to live. Any living being, one way or the other, possesses a defensive power, which, at the proper time, moves from the instinct into the organs of defense. This power is bestowed by the Almighty. This defensive power even exists, more or less, in plants Perhaps there are plants, the fruit and flower of which is to be used by others. There are yet other plants, the fruit of which is only for their own reproduction. People can only enjoy these visually. For this reason, some plants have big sharp thorns to warn the intruder, saying, "Since I am such a fragrant, beautiful being, this weapon must protect me from the harm of potential invaders." Yesterday a young man read some poetry, from which I recall a few lines. I don't know who the poet is, but it is an excellent piece:
How long will you remain depressed as ice,
Or drifting like a dead mouse in water?
Contempt causes inner discord;
Acceptance of repression invites humiliation;
So like a rosebush, bear your weapon on your shoulder
So you can also display your beautiful blossoms.
The poem is miraculously eloquent and realistic. It is a fact that servility and lowliness ruin the harmony of man's faculties. [Those who live in such conditions may well perceive some facts, but they cannot express them with their tongues and hands. This is the meaning of discord: dissonance between a person's perceptive and practical mechanisms. If the rosebush wishes to preserve the freshness and beauty of its own roses, if it wishes to stand proudly, it must cut the hands of the intruders.] This is the same as what appears in the constitution of the animals, according to the law of evolution and instinct, exemplified by the development of the horn, talons, and teeth, and in man, is manifested in the emotion of anger. Since reason in man is the director of his other faculties, he utilizes anger as a weapon to defend his rights, territory, dignity, nationality, and what have you. Thus if a prophet or a law-giver decrees that war and defense is to be nullified in a nation, it is the same as decreeing that because lustful passion causes unfavorable social conditions, men and women have to cut off their procreative organs. Nay! Natural powers have their appropriate function; only they require proper guidance.
smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif smilies/cool.gif
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written by Panca Indera, August 08, 2008 09:49:44
Oops!
Ive' forgotten the link as it was a cut an paste on the anger bit
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written by CatV5, August 08, 2008 10:29:44
A present for a friend... smilies/grin.gif

Dealing with Anger
Heavenletter # 2474 Published on: September 3, 2007
God said:

There may be greater or lesser intensity to anger, yet anger is anger. Something makes your blood boil. Even though you well know that anger is not worth its salt, you still have it. First there is upset, and then upset bare its teeth and becomes downright anger. Odds are the anger
seems to be caused by a relationship, some kind of communication barrier. You do not feel you are being heard. Whether the apparent cause is an insensitive customer service representative, your wife, an employee, a traffic jam, or obtuse bureaucracy, you feel stymied, as if you are up against a stone wall. You do not know how to make yourself heard. At these times, you are forgetting yourself, beloveds.

Whether you simply feel the rushing anger in your physiology, or you grit your teeth and clench your fists and keep silent, or you explode, the damage is done. There is no anger without damage. Leashed or let loose, your sense of anger has gone out into the environment. A
message has been sent. It is a message that says war is justified. It doesn't matter if it is a war only between you and one other individual -- it is still war.

You may think there is a righteous cause for your pure anger. The ultimate cause is that you do not love yourself enough. The situation becomes a federal case because you are not being heard, and, therefore, by, your interpretation, not being valued. Because you do not yet value yourself, you have not yet learned to shrug your shoulders and put out the fire of anger. Talk to yourself a different way before anger begins. Give yourself reasons not to be possessed by anger rather than all the justification for anger.

Naturally, you do not want to feel angry. You never did.

When you feel love and loved, you think someone caused you to feel love. Someone or something stirred the love that is already yours. Just so with anger. Your anger was already there within you waiting to burst forth, beloveds. You are the source of your own anger.

Anger has to do with control. Anger gets you by the throat and brings out the beast in you. I said beast not best. You become a haughty boss of life because you do not know your true power, and you feel helpless, and so you feel angry.

Do not think I am oversimplifying. If you loved yourself enough, you would not feel the need to react.

I know a lot is said in the world about how you must express your anger. But here's the rub:

No matter what a nice person you are, no matter your usual way of operating, when you become angry, you start operating in a bully mode. You feel forced to control. You are going to make something happen. You are going to change things. You become selfish, and so you yell. In one way or another, and you want to beat up on the seeming cause of your anger. Bullying was never honorable, beloveds. Saying what you feel is one thing, bullying another. Anger does not give you the right to bully one other Human Being.

When you feel yourself getting angry and justified for your anger, stop right then. Say, "Whoa."

When anger overrides you, find a way to get rid of it that does not hurt you or another. Pound nails, run two miles, play squash ball. Write a nasty letter, if you must, and tear it up. Find a way that works for you. Have a plan for when you become angry. Get the anger out of your system as quickly as possible without taking out your anger on those around you.

You do not have to vent your anger. You do have to get rid of it.

It is never all right for you to yell or scream at anyone. Yes, of course, you will kiss and make up. Kiss and make up now, and leave out the yelling.
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written by Admiral Tojo, August 08, 2008 10:52:10
As I have repeated man times, there is absolute freedom in belief. So to everyone in this blog, my greetings to you ALL is peace. Judge a person by his deeds, as words are meaningless if not followed by good deeds. What is happening in our country deserves focus by everyone. Remember, it is easier to rob from those who are not hungry. We are being robbed, let, right and center. For our childrens benefit and future, we have to do something NOW. RPK is an example of a true Muslim and deserves all the support that he needs.

Salaam
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written by CatV5, August 08, 2008 12:20:14
I don't want to cut pastes too much, but i felt i had to paste this... hopefully this is the last of my cut n paste... here goes...

Come from Love
Heavenletter # 1710 Published on: July 26, 2005
God said:

It is not for you to have the first word nor the last word. It is not for you to be right. It is not for you to win. It is for you to love. Turning the other cheek does not mean you are walked on. It means you stand on a higher rung. The other person is not to dictate your response. You are not to give him that power.

If he is unkind or unthinking, all the more reason for you to be kind and thoughtful. If another person is in a hurting mode – all the more reason for you not to be. Enough of smallness. Come from a place of peace.

Do not think you are giving up something when you put anger aside. You don’t have to vent it. You don’t have to have it in the first place. Other people are playing their role. You do not have to play theirs. They may not be as wise as you. If that is the case, then all the more reason for you to be wise. It is not wise to try to prove yourself right and someone else wrong. It is also not necessary.

When I suggest that you rise to the occasion, I do not mean that you rise to anger or defense. That is not rising. That is lowering. I suggest that you look at the situation from a little distance, thus removing yourself from it.

If you were a teacher, and two children were fighting. One tells you: “He called my mother a name.” You tell him that no one has power over him unless he gives it away. No one has the right to insult him or his mother, of course, but insult doesn’t have the right to overtake common sense either.

Beloveds, In a cock-fight, the innocent creatures are not given a choice. But you are not a rooster. Why then would you behave like one? You have a choice. You can walk away. And that is the least you can do.

Have you not fed the flames of argument? What is the advantage? What do you gain? And when it is all done, what do you have?

It is a silly thing to be a winner of an argument. Be a winner of love instead. Earn the winning title by giving love. If you cannot give it near, then give it afar. Do you really want to be known as One Who Tried to Win Every Argument or would you rather be known as One Who Sought to Come from Love?

Be gentle with one another. These are My children you are dealing with.

There is no justification for you to be less than love. A thousand reasons do not give you cause. But, of course, hurtful words and hurtful actions are justified a thousand times and a thousand ways, and all to no avail.

For every argument you win, you have lost an opportunity to give love. That means you lost. Turning the other cheek means to be wise and to get out of automatic. It means to be an agent of love.

When you retaliate, you are an agent of fear and you’re ego’s pawn. Would you not prefer to be an agent of change, an agent of making a difference, an agent of wisdom? Would you rather be one who returns hate or one who turns hate around? Would you rather be a nourisher of hate or an abandoner of it? Would you not like to be a lover of mankind, a giver of peace, an artist of a larger view? Someone else may be inadequate, but that does not mean you have to be.

Paint a different picture of yourself. Erase the old one. You are the painter of your life. Yes, well, how do you choose to paint yourself?
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written by Fart Fart Wah, August 09, 2008 00:08:29
some people become very righteous about words.......coined words..

The fact is the word Allah was used even before Islam was born...period.
so it is not an original word of Islam....it was borrowed by Islam jsut like many other cross- borrowings from other religions vice-versa.

I wonder why the Angel Gabriel did not rename Allah just to be exclusive for mALAY MUSLIMS ONLY Islam..and claim it to be the one and all..

It just goes to proof that God does not have a worded name
Naming him means he will be owned..and as such..he never did give his name even to MUsa...knowing that there will be IDIOTS FIGHTTING OVER THIS TRIVIAL THING some 2000 years later and maybe even to etErnity..

some people are educated in religion..some people become uneducated in religion

And the bigots who have been uneducated today are those who ask for an exclsuive club to Islam...and these bigots are THE UMNOLEBIHDIRAJA MAHARAJA ALLAHS...THEY HAVE USURPED AND CORRUPTED mALAY MUSLIMS FOR THIS EXCLUSIVITY..
AND THEY ARE FORCING MALAY MUSLIMS TO BE LIKE KERBAUS TO BE LEAD BY THE NOSE SO THAT THEY DO NOT LOOSE THE POWER TO RULE OVER THEM...

OTHER MUSLIM NATIONS ARE LAUGHING THEIR TOES OUT...

ISLAM FOR THEM IS HYPOCRISY..

A VICE PRESIDENT CAN WALK TO AUSTRALIA WITH THER RAKYAT'S MONEY AND COMMIT ADULTERY WITH A PRINCESS AND INSLUT THE PRINCESS AND TODAY ...MALAYS HAVE ALLOWED HIM TO BE THERI VICE PRESIDENT AGAIN..




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written by yatchee, August 09, 2008 11:24:17
DEAR RAJA PETRA,YOU TOLD OUT ALL TRUE FEELINGS OF MALAYSIAN WHO WANT PEACE AND HARMONY,MY DUE RESPECT FOR YOU.YOU ARE THE FIRST AND THE ONE AND ONLY PERSON WHO DARE TO SPEAK OUT FOR JUSTICE AND RIGHT THINGS FOR ALL RACES..GREATEST..
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written by Panca Indera, August 10, 2008 08:28:02
Ref: “As I have repeated many times, there is absolute freedom in belief”.
OF COURSE THERE IS ABSOLUTE FREEDOM TO BELIEF IN ANYTHING. BUT THERE IS ALSO ABSOLUTE RSPONSIBILITY/ACCOUTABILITY IN THAT BELIEF. Don’t expect that nothing will happen to you just because you don’t belief either.

As for Anger , apparently there are a lot of people who seems not to understand the meaning:

Angry v. A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.

DON”T be confused with enrage
Enrage v. rage; infuriate. make violently angry
All these words, including sad, happy, sulk, mile are verbs i.e. expressions of self when confronting certain situations.

To deny the Goodness in anger, (just like the other expressions I mentioned ) is to deny the Goodness of God, as Everything that God created is GOOD( Again many may not understand that, but that is another story)

Anger Management is designed to control and channel anger the proper way.
So don’t give me the crap that Anger must be eliminated and scrap altogether. There s a proper place and time for everything.

“You do not have to vent your anger. You do have to get rid of it.”Holy Crap”
“When you retaliate, you are an agent of fear” Another Crap.

The trouble with you people is , you don’t really understand you words you used. Just like TOJO master of the READING where ka’bah the Scared House is House of Ankles and God “Lord of the Worlds” is Lord of the WELL INFORMED WHO COMES FROM THE READING.

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written by Panca Indera, August 10, 2008 09:08:13
Yes mister Smelly Arse farty Fart,
You are all shit!

ref: The fact is the word Allah was used even before Islam was born...period.


Wrong!
Allah is a word invented by God as His exclusive and Best name from the time of prophet ADAM. It was among the WORDS(the READING?) THAT God taught Adam.

Throughout the age from ADAM, the word for GOD was, is ALLAH. But men through carelessness, thoughtlessness, ignorance and arrogance invented otherwise.

IT IS THE ORIGINAL WORD FOR GOD IN ISLAM(regardless of race or color or language.
The Malay word for God is TUHAN or HANTU(reversed)
But MUSLIMS (malays, indians chinese, whites, blacks Arabs) UNIVERSALLY called their God ALLAH not Jesus or Holy Ghost or God the Father/Son or whatever!

Just because it was abused or misused does by the distracters does not change it.

Arabs has its own language and Allah is the word for their Chief God when they were living in Jahilliah(age of Ignorance)

I wonder why the Angel Gabriel did not rename Allah just to be exclusive for mALAY MUSLIMS ONLY Islam..and claim it to be the one and all..

What a stupid and thoughtless comment That smelt of prejudices and arrogance.

It just goes to proof that God does not have a worded name
Naming him means he will be owned..and as such..he never did give his name even to


If God does’t not have a NAME,(even “GOD”! is a name) your stupid statement if taken in its worded context, is an oxymoron, except you are the moron .

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written by CatV5, August 11, 2008 18:54:24
To deny the Goodness in anger, (just like the other expressions I mentioned ) is to deny the Goodness of God, as Everything that God created is GOOD( Again many may not understand that, but that is another story)


Yup a typical Malay Muslim statement except that this guy is very smart and knows what to type and has a lot of smileys....

"to deny/accept xxxxx is to deny/oppose God and/or prophet and/or you'll be apostate if you disagree with me etc etc"..... and then they complicate the statements by adding "many don't understand and/or must learn like me first to understand or learn from Guru first to understand"... if not just follow... it just leash up the sheeps... smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif .... And then some hate statement with some spices of name calling.. as if they are holier than those who opposes them in the name of "you insult my God/religion/prophet/race" .... typical anger/fear/hate orientation words.... Not blaming Panca... just an observation... yes they may claim they are peaceful which is indeed peaceful (maybe on the outside or while praying)... only if others didn't push their "angry" button... Panca is a nice guy if you ask him nicely... no doubt about it... just don't push that "red button" ok!

It's a sign of weakness IMHO... exposing your angry button.... TOJO knows it... don't you TOJO? Just a simple flick of a button, and the beast is released.. fascinating! smilies/grin.gif

People can manipulate this kind people easily by playing around with that angry button.... Of course it's stupid and a waste of energy to face to face with them, unless they are same headed like this kind... smilies/grin.gif. That's why respect button is there... it is designed calm the beast within... just push that respect button... and everything will be fine... alright! But the anger button is more "sensitive" than respect button IMHO. So be careful.

Of course anger is one of God's gifts and all other emotions too.. but is it worth it to show off to others this kind of emotions and be proud of it??? the values of each emotions is placed depending on an individual perspective... I value peace and love more over hate and anger. So i see less value in anger or hate.. it's my perspective. i ponder on peace management more than anger management..... so Panca's perspectives is not wrong nor others should be called wrong too... everyone is right only different in values and perpectives... It's just that most of us (including me i think) likes some resistance and chaos to feed off our ego. You know, it's more fun to comment on others that disagrees with you rather than those who agrees... you guys know that right... Thx for giving a good demo...

The recent bar council demo is a good case to observe (at least for me)... thank you God for unfolding it to us... Media and Zaid Hamidi has been pushing it... Let's see where this drama leads to...

It's just comments anyway.. take it as a fun fun no hate hate... (unless i accidentally pushed a button... hehe...)
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written by Panca Indera, August 12, 2008 09:14:26
CatV5
REFER: “Yup a typical Malay Muslim statement except that this guy is very smart and knows what to type and has a lot of smileys....’

I am flattered even though your statement is not accurate and did not reflect me as how I see myself.

I am a Muslim, FIRST(or try to be one) and Malay LAST. Therefore I act as a Muslim first, NEVER as a Malay. ANYTIME(sometimes I failed). All Muslims are my Brothers (Whether they are weak, poor, rich, honest, crooks, corrupted, sincere, misunderstood, misguided(just like other faiths), but they all share my belief that, ” There is no deity except ALLAH the All Encompassing and Muhammad was the last in the line of prophets/messengers/Shepard to guide mankind.’

Ref:” Panca is a nice guy if you ask him nicely... no doubt about it... just don't push that "red button" ok!

You’re quite right but could be more accurate if you say “You don’t cross the red line.” Everything in life has limits and only God has No LIMIT.

Note: You can criticize the Muslims you don’t like, (NO objection). But criticizing the Creator of my beliefs and a billion and a half of my Brothers/sisters is the RED LINE that I have DRAWN for myself.

I feel worthless than the dirt on the street pavement or the shit in the sewer, if I do not stand up and defend my beliefs. The language of choice is dependent on the aggressor I am confronting.

In our life there is the “ raison d'etre “ for everything, even thought we may not know or understand the reason, YET!
There is/are also the purpose in this life. Atheist will disagree, but our sole purpose and goal (of the Highest Order) in this life is get as close as possible to the Creator. And to do that we have to follow and abide by His rules.

Ref: “It's just that most of us (including me i think) likes some resistance and chaos to feed off our ego. You know, it's more fun to comment on others that disagrees with you rather than those who agrees... you guys know that right... “

Yes , its healthy to be opinionated and criticize (constructive!) any IDEA or SYSTEM or RELIGION, provided its done in a civilized manner.
But Don’t be judgmental in your opinions and INSULT others for their Beliefs even if you think its wrong or hypocritical, because others can do the same to you(like I did and I am not ashamed either as God will be my Judge, not humans).

I have left my EGO behind a long time ago as it came from PRIDE and Selfishness .

Remember, there will always be OTHERS who are richer, better looking, smarter, and have more things than you.

BUT THE BEST PERSON IS THE PERSON WHO OBEYS HIS LORD FULLY AND MOST PIOUS IN HIS PERFORMANCE OF HIS DUTYS FOR THE SAKE OF HIS LORD.
SO THERE GOES THE EGO!
CatV5 you are OK!
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written by CatV5, August 12, 2008 10:01:07
I am flattered even though your statement is not accurate and did not reflect me as how I see myself.


Again, it's just an outsiders observation about a person... I maybe wrong... but thanks for clearing that up....

BUT THE BEST PERSON IS THE PERSON WHO OBEYS HIS LORD FULLY AND MOST PIOUS IN HIS PERFORMANCE OF HIS DUTYS FOR THE SAKE OF HIS LORD.

Erm i kinda want to disagree with this... but i want to respect that... May you be blessed with your piety and obedience...

I guess this thread has gotten too long already.. time to move on.. but i love talking about God... hehe

Salam...
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